{"conversationCode":"443-037","tapeNumber":443,"conversationNumber":37,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-443-037","startDateTime":"1973-06-06T22:04:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-06-06T22:12:00.000Z","startDate":"6-Jun-1973","startTime":"6:04 PM","endDate":"6-Jun-1973","endTime":"6:12 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Phuong, Tran Kim; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.);","description":"On June 6, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Tran Kim Phuong, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:04 pm to 6:12 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 443-037 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 443-37\n\nDate: June 6, 1973\nTime: 6:04 pm - 6:12 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Tran Kim Phuong, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft.\n\n       Greeting\n\n       Haig’s conversation with Phuong\n              -President’s letter to Nguyen Van Thieu\n                     -Telegram\n\f                                    -19-\n\n           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                    Conversation No. 443-37 (cont’d)\n\n             -Original to Phuong\n       -Congress\n             -President’s problem\n\nCongress\n      -Washington, D.C. mood\n      -Vietnam cease-fire negotiations\n             -Communique\n                    -Thieu\n                            -Blockage\n\nPresident’s Commitment to Thieu at San Clemente\n       -Concerns\n       -Aid program [?]\n       -Congress\n              -Appropriations [?]\n              -Cease-fire negotiations\n                     -Communique\n                             -Thieu\n\nCease-fire negotiations\n       -Thieu\n              -Phuong\n              -Saigon\n       -Narrowing gap\n       -Comparison\n       -Improvement [?]\n\nGovernment of South Vietnam\n      -Thieu\n      -Survival\n             -Aid from Congress\n                    -Status\n                    -Congressional response to President\n             -Thieu\n                    -President’s support\n                            -Trust in North Vietnam\n\f                                               -20-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                            Conversation No. 443-37 (cont’d)\n\n                               -Congressional support\n\n       President’s letter to Thieu\n              -Intent\n              -Communique\n                       -Congress\n                               -President’s influence\n\n       Vietnam cease-fire negotiations\n             -Laos\n             -Council of Reconciliation\n             -Cease-fire procedure\n             -Impairment\n             -Importance of South Vietnam’s adherence\n                    -Thieu\n                    -Henry A. Kissinger\n                            -Position\n                            -Paris\n             -Responsibility\n                    -Phuong’s role\n                            -US aid to South Vietnam [?]\n                            -Importance\n                            -Public opinion [?]\n             -North Vietnam\n                    -Communists\n                            -Trustworthiness\n             -Thieu’s position\n                    -Aid for South Vietnam\n             -President’s motives\n                    -Support for Thieu\n                    -Compared to North Vietnam\n\n       Well wishes\n             -Future endeavors\n\nThe President et al. left at 6:12 pm.","filename":["443-037.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Phuong, Tran Kim","Haig, Alexander M., Jr.","Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.)"],"prevCode":"443-036","nextCode":"443-038","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":12.57,"text":"President, I'm Professor Paul."},{"start":12.95,"end":15.95,"text":"Yes, of course."},{"start":15.97,"end":24.02,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":24.04,"end":24.3,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":24.32,"end":24.58,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":24.6,"end":24.86,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":24.88,"end":25.14,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":25.16,"end":25.43,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":25.45,"end":25.7,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":25.73,"end":26.19,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":26.21,"end":29.11,"text":"Good evening."},{"start":32.11,"end":55.38,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":59.82,"end":86.05,"text":"I think it's very important that you convey the present view"},{"start":91.17,"end":111.96,"text":"my ability to keep the commitment I made to him sent from that book, the eighth program."},{"start":111.98,"end":112.34,"text":"I want to do that."},{"start":112.36,"end":113.46,"text":"And I just can't fix those congressional years."},{"start":113.48,"end":114.67,"text":"As for the other program, I will never be able to get them."},{"start":114.69,"end":116.65,"text":"And then have them say, well, now, why did the president give you a block?"},{"start":116.67,"end":119.17,"text":"So that they would be able to communicate, which would have given Suspire a chance to really survive."},{"start":119.19,"end":119.59,"text":"That's where we are."},{"start":131.3,"end":157.26,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":157.28,"end":157.54,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":157.56,"end":157.82,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":157.84,"end":158.1,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":168.11,"end":184.6,"text":"in the strongest possible terms."},{"start":184.62,"end":192.23,"text":"My concern is that basically my ability to frankly produce an aid program."},{"start":192.25,"end":192.75,"text":"Let's face it, we don't ."},{"start":192.77,"end":194.33,"text":"But it is vitally important that the government be able to survive."},{"start":194.35,"end":195.29,"text":"That you cannot survive without an aid program."},{"start":195.31,"end":196.55,"text":"And that aid program will not be forthcoming."},{"start":196.57,"end":197.24,"text":"Our numbers are supposed to move."},{"start":197.86,"end":215.58,"text":"I'm bored."},{"start":215.83,"end":242.82,"text":"."},{"start":242.84,"end":242.86,"text":"."},{"start":242.88,"end":242.9,"text":"."},{"start":242.92,"end":242.94,"text":"."},{"start":242.96,"end":242.98,"text":"."},{"start":243,"end":243.02,"text":"."},{"start":243.04,"end":243.06,"text":"."},{"start":243.08,"end":243.1,"text":"."},{"start":247.12,"end":268.25,"text":"with a lot of respect."},{"start":268.27,"end":268.75,"text":"It's simply this, right?"},{"start":268.77,"end":269.61,"text":"He doesn't go off the history of the cave."},{"start":269.63,"end":271.03,"text":"Iowa has an impossible task to get support for everybody in this town."},{"start":271.05,"end":271.98,"text":"Whether it's true or not, it's a enough point."},{"start":272,"end":272.56,"text":"That's the situation, right?"},{"start":272.58,"end":273.42,"text":"And we're coming along with this, I think."},{"start":273.44,"end":274.22,"text":"I don't think it's going to get better."},{"start":274.84,"end":298.64,"text":"uh... uh..."},{"start":307.46,"end":335.39,"text":"."},{"start":335.42,"end":335.44,"text":"."},{"start":335.45,"end":335.48,"text":"."},{"start":343.47,"end":362.48,"text":"Yes, I understand, it doesn't go."},{"start":390.79,"end":394.32,"text":"Yeah, I think that's a good idea."},{"start":419.78,"end":424.95,"text":"Well, you do."},{"start":424.97,"end":441.53,"text":"I would ask that you reconsider in China, and you can tell us in the message."},{"start":441.55,"end":443.13,"text":"I'm the expert on comments driven by you, and I don't trust them at all."},{"start":443.15,"end":445.99,"text":"But right now, we've got a bigger issue, and that's the aid to the government."},{"start":446.01,"end":446.61,"text":"That is what we've got to say."},{"start":446.63,"end":447.27,"text":"We don't have this communicated."},{"start":447.3,"end":447.78,"text":"We don't have to say it."},{"start":447.8,"end":448.12,"text":"That's worth it."},{"start":449.41,"end":452.36,"text":"Yeah, I'm doing this."},{"start":452.54,"end":456.62,"text":"I want this done for him."},{"start":456.76,"end":460.97,"text":"I'm not doing it for the Lord."},{"start":461.07,"end":462.78,"text":"It's for him."},{"start":463.5,"end":466.08,"text":"And for his country."},{"start":466.1,"end":466.44,"text":"Okay."},{"start":493.71,"end":522.13,"text":"Now, you..."},{"start":523.07,"end":543.65,"text":"I would ask that you reconsider in China, and you can tell us in the message."},{"start":543.67,"end":544.85,"text":"I'm the expert of confidence and I don't trust them at all."},{"start":544.87,"end":546.45,"text":"But right now, we've got a bigger issue, and that's the aid for the government."},{"start":546.47,"end":547.07,"text":"That is what we've got to say."},{"start":547.09,"end":547.73,"text":"We don't have this communicated."},{"start":547.75,"end":548.24,"text":"We don't have this said."},{"start":550.34,"end":553.65,"text":"Yeah, I'm doing this."},{"start":554.33,"end":560.99,"text":"I want this done for him."},{"start":561.17,"end":564.58,"text":"I'm not doing it for the Lord."},{"start":564.6,"end":565.56,"text":"It's for him."},{"start":565.8,"end":566.87,"text":"And for his country."},{"start":566.88,"end":567.19,"text":"Okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with South Vietnamese Ambassador Tran Kim Phuong, Alexander Haig, and Brent Scowcroft to discuss the critical need for continued U.S. aid to South Vietnam amidst growing Congressional opposition. Nixon emphasized that he remains committed to supporting President Nguyen Van Thieu but warned that legislative resistance makes securing future appropriations increasingly difficult. The discussion centered on the importance of survival for the South Vietnamese government and the necessity of managing expectations regarding American military and economic assistance.","topics":["Vietnam War","Foreign Aid","Congress","Nguyen Van Thieu","U.S.-South Vietnam Relations","Military Appropriations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:34:42.792Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","foreign-aid","congress","nguyen-van-thieu","u-s-south-vietnam-relations","military-appropriations"],"audioDurationSec":588,"audioFiles":[{"file":"443-037.mp3","bytes":18816038,"durationSec":587.94,"bitrate":256026,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:06.080Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:41.610Z","transcriptGapSeconds":315,"transcriptGapShare":0.54,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/443-037.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/443-037","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/443/conversation-443-037","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}