Nixon, Haldeman & Flanigan on Presidential Appointments and Economic Policy

2:16:39There are the questions that Gallaudet likes to see on campus tonight.
2:16:45What sex did any person call saying, you don't already have a wife?
2:16:51What criticisms have you heard about her?
2:17:08I have to go out there to Boston.
2:17:10I have a lot of things I want to do in Boston.
2:17:16I want to work on the airspace.
2:17:20I need to get it done.
2:17:37The advantage of it for a bust is simply that you can spy in the State Department.
2:17:42I think you may have raised some of the...the...the blind, I mean, if you go over there, they would let you be a spy.
2:17:54And, uh, I don't know who else you can get to be a spy.
2:17:57We sure as hell haven't got anybody to look at right now.
2:18:07The other advantage of your going is that the state is known to really try to throw its weight around on this whole economic thing.
2:18:12And whether it falls or they go in and out of the truck, and whether it falls and fails or succeeds, those are kind of the great people on the state.
2:18:22You know, they get their fingers in every damn pie, and so there's the oil committee,
2:18:30about anything and just screw it up hugely.
2:18:34If you could handle that.
2:18:36The problem there is whether or not in that bureaucracy they let you being the outsider and just putting the right hand there.
2:18:45So, I agree with the conclusion that it would be best for you to stay here.
2:18:49From our standpoint, I think you can handle, in other words, continue to handle all that kind of problem from this area.
2:19:05It's got a lot of very major problems to solve.
2:19:13What do we really do about the foreign investment?
2:19:16The trouble is, every time we come up against one of these, the State Department ends up on the side of a foreign country.
2:19:23So the reason that I even considered it when Roger Tracer...
2:19:27way back before it was on the side of the United States.
2:19:31Yes, sir.
2:19:31It's as cold as that.
2:19:33Now, the other possibility is this.
2:19:35Actually, I think that it enhances you over there.
2:19:41Is that a possibility?
2:19:42If you had somebody else you could put over there, we could control it.
2:19:49That's what we need.
2:19:50I mean, Samuels is a pleasant
2:19:55He's smart, but he doesn't know anything about practical politics.
2:19:58That's right.
2:20:00I like him.
2:20:05I've been very impressed by him.
2:20:08He's very heavy.
2:20:11Well, I think, you know, what Bill wants is an infighter.
2:20:14He needs somebody to fight the battles over there in that bureaucracy.
2:20:18When he lost this battle here on this international financial policy...
2:20:24Or he wants, then he says, well, the way I get back is get somebody who's got some in with the White House.
2:20:32And I understand what he's trying to do.
2:20:44Whoever goes over there, he can certainly approach the financial, international financial things on them.
2:20:51in a way that's more helpful to us.
2:20:53But I don't really think he'll, from that point, he's ever going to get into the guts of the State Department in the other areas.
2:20:59I think that Irwin and Rogers and Alex Johnson will have Fox.
2:21:06Yeah, yeah, I agree.
2:21:08But I think that who might go over there first is Matt.
2:21:11Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:21:16But I told George, and I hope he told you, that
2:21:19If you wanted to do it, whatever you want, whatever you want.
2:21:21We had the only time we really had a man in the State Department who was on, well, at the highest level, was sort of a rejecter.
2:21:26And, you know, of course, Dallas is, you know, as far as I think that's, I mean, you're trying to disband this.
2:21:33So, you know, I'm going to be wrong.
2:21:35See, there's no way.
2:21:39I'm telling you, it was good.
2:21:43Oh, yeah, I'll tell you.
2:21:44It was.
2:21:47I don't know, I have mixed emotions about it.
2:21:52I don't know, you might go over and then come back.
2:22:10I really think that the opportunity I have, Jack Irwin, is very important.
2:22:14I don't know if he's ever going to hear about it.
2:22:17He's persistent, but not very strong.
2:22:20Lifting.
2:22:21Right, lifting.
2:22:22I mean, he had, frankly, he had, Bill really wants you because you've got some balls, and I think he knows you can win fights.
2:22:31And those people that have got balls, you can't tell which they are.
2:22:35That's true.
2:22:42Isn't it awful?
2:22:43Well, they invite for themselves all the time.
2:22:45They're just fighting each other all the time, and all these petty little things where he said at the table, and what meetings, and what messages, clearly with what, and they don't want any more about that, or in their margins.
2:22:55You also have to say that when they put forward a position, they have probably researched it better than any other department in the government.
2:23:09No question about it.
2:23:10They're much better than us.
2:23:17W and HUD and all the rest of them.
2:23:20Of course.
2:23:21Well, at least we're getting an accomplishment.
2:23:25Jim Lynn, who you may not know.
2:23:26Well, I know he's very good.
2:23:27We're getting good.
2:23:29Morris, I think, is famous.
2:23:31He's right.
2:23:32But Lennon, I think, is great.
2:23:37He's got a great job.
2:23:38Yes?
2:23:39Yeah.
2:23:39He is good.
2:23:40I don't know.
2:23:41I must say this is a terribly important area.
2:23:44This is Bob and I talked a little about it.
2:23:47I didn't raise it with you because I don't do it.
2:23:50I'm giving you the code.
2:23:51You have to pick something and see what you want to do.
2:23:55You could be all invaluable there.
2:23:56The other thing is that we first need to hear in terms of not just this foreign economic stuff, but all this other stuff that we're going to have a lot of people.
2:24:16The Ash Council report apparently is the only way to do it because that not only allows you to appoint the fellow, he's your guy.
2:24:25He's the only guy there.
2:24:27He doesn't have to fight with the Mary Gardner job.
2:24:29Oh, yes.
2:24:33There's no way to change that.
2:24:35I'll tell you the business community would jump up with joy.
2:24:37That's the only thing we'd get with on that one thing.
2:24:41Well, you'd scare them some.
2:24:43You'd scare them with that.
2:24:44Assholes, I think they can control the president's.
2:24:47I remember the advantage of that is that that is the place where you can move directly into the cabinet position.
2:24:58That's the natural.
2:25:23all these environmentalists on that alaska pipeline the rest he shouldn't indicate in advance if he makes us not work today i don't know what's worth the dam we're not waiting to be
2:25:46Mr. President, we've clearly got to get that oil out of there.
2:25:49The right way to get the oil out, and I think it's a pipeline through Canada.
2:25:55Oh, I think this is wrong.
2:25:58We're going to have to start to know this.
2:26:01I think Rock is saying things that satisfy the press.
2:26:05I want him to say things that satisfy us.
2:26:08I love him.
2:26:26Get that one filled for me.
2:26:32I'll use that one.
2:26:34Yes, sir.
2:26:35We can't get it.
2:26:37Because if we do, we'll lose the state of Alaska forever.
2:26:40We have 11 of them.
2:26:42Oh, they're dying for it.
2:26:43Because of the job.
2:26:44Because the road is not through the middle of the state now.
2:26:48So we have to stay away from them.
2:26:50We have some help.
2:26:50Martin is losing the state prayer right now.
2:26:52I just said, he said we want to be behind the firemen.
2:26:59Fire?
2:27:00No.
2:27:00Good God!
2:27:01That is not a good reason.
2:27:02It's like saying, you know, SSP, you've got to be on fire.
2:27:05That is not a good reason.
2:27:06Can I have it then?
2:27:07I'm so sick of the confident environment, I could die.
2:27:09Well, let's see, who was it, Bill White, somebody today, didn't they?
2:27:12Well, part of the thing is the environmentalist is being purely a...
2:27:18The truth of the matter is we're going to have both pipelines in time.
2:27:22It's a question of which comes first, the one down to Valdez or the one down through Canada.
2:27:28But the Canadians are now pushing the one through Canada.
2:27:30In your case, frankly, I'm safe.
2:27:36My real feeling, Madam President, I'll do whatever you want me to do.
2:27:40I'll get you to do everything.
2:27:42I think I'd get over there and be on a side track with all the things that you're worried about and that Henry's worried about going down the main track and not being able to do anything about it.
2:27:54And in the economic thing, where of course it's important, the real action there is going to be handled by Peterson.
2:28:00And should be.
2:28:00It's got to be out of state.
2:28:02I could be helpful, but I don't.
2:28:08That Shakespeare's man out there, he's done enough for him.
2:28:12I quite agree.
2:28:13The guy's a disaster.
2:28:14What was his name?
2:28:16Branson.
2:28:18Kenneth Branson.
2:28:19Branson.
2:28:19From Texas?
2:28:20Yeah.
2:28:21Why is he a disaster?
2:28:21Because he just hasn't, according to the State Department, according to McComber, I reviewed all of our people and they've been... McComber's a good man.
2:28:29He says that this fellow just hasn't caught on, he doesn't know what he's doing, and he's completely inept at the job.
2:28:37the number one guy they think has been a disaster, and they've been very, very flattering about most of the others.
2:28:45Probably the right kind of a guy to those people.
2:28:52I think he'd be all right.
2:28:54Now, White, you know, really, he's in a long way away.
2:29:09I wrestled with them a long time ago.
2:29:12I don't know if I stay out there.
2:29:13But that's where they leave from, is all of us.
2:29:15They went down to our plans, and they go either to Auburn or to St. Louis.
2:29:22And I'd love to see those pilots, you know, if they fly out there, or they don't go to the city, or come back, or if they're ready to get rid of you.
2:29:39Yes, sir.
2:29:41He's still on the go.
2:29:47I think if a fella doesn't measure up, he's been given his chance.
2:29:56That's what he was after his $100,000.
2:30:02C.I.A.
2:30:02man, I'm a U.S.A. man, I'm out of here.
2:30:05Shakespeare.
2:30:05Shakespeare?
2:30:06God will.
2:30:06I've been having a little trouble with Shakespeare because of your friend and mine, John Shaheen.
2:30:12It's all taken care of.
2:30:13He finally agreed.
2:30:14Not today.
2:30:16Right letter was withdrawn.
2:30:17Clark McGregor made the call.
2:30:20And then word was made to him.
2:30:22To Shaheen.
2:30:23Spend now and the moment of the last one.
2:30:26I thought that part of it surprised me enough is not the problem because that's a purely technical question.
2:31:27My responsibility is the president's relations with the Congress.
2:31:34And I have to tell you that you're jeopardizing his relations with the Congress if you put this up there.
2:31:41If we put this up there.
2:31:42And I just don't want to.
2:31:43And he said this has been unanimously checked here.
2:32:00I'm afraid we've got trouble with Bill Casey, too.
2:32:09I'm afraid Bill has been too much in swinging kind of financial deals.
2:32:17I don't know, Mr. President.
2:32:21We asked him.
2:32:23Specifically.
2:32:24That's the amazing thing.
2:32:26He says on this lawsuit that he says he forgot about it.
2:32:29Well, he might have, but there's just so many other things.
2:32:32What do we do with drug nominations?
2:32:35He can get out of them.
2:32:36Oh, well, he'll, I think if we want him to, he'll withdraw.
2:32:41He won't get sick.
2:32:42He'll be unhappy, but I think he'll do it.
2:32:44Here we go.
2:32:49But that's his fault.
2:32:50I really do.
2:32:51I'm on both these guys.
2:32:53But once you get down to that, I still like, I still think that we're missing that being on some of the former chief executive officers.
2:33:02Now, for example, Bert Cross is retiring.
2:33:04He's headed the 3M.
2:33:06He's a friend of mine.
2:33:08Yes.
2:33:09I don't know a moment.
2:33:12Oh, you bet.
2:33:13Right.
2:33:13Yes.
2:33:25See, that's kind of, one of those guys, they just go through life and they do a hell of a job for five years.
2:33:31Sure, they're 65 years of age, but full of memes.
2:33:34They've got it, they've really got it.
2:33:35And they know how, you know, they're politicians.
2:33:40I know you love to do it.
2:33:43We've got a great job to offer to one of those fellas.
2:33:46Great job.
2:33:47He only has to be a good, tough negotiator.
2:33:49I hate these names.
2:33:51Who do you pass them on to?
2:33:54He's got another style.
2:33:55Okay, well, I bet you don't need this.
2:33:57I don't understand this.
2:33:59We have a good job for somebody who's smart but doesn't want a full-time job.
2:34:02It's six weeks in Geneva at the World Radio Conference.
2:34:06He's a full ambassador.
2:34:07It takes a couple of weeks at either end.
2:34:09He negotiates for that period of time.
2:34:12Joe McConnell did it last time.
2:34:14Don't have to know anything about the radio.
2:34:17He's got to be a tough negotiator.
2:34:19He's got to be a good friend.
2:34:21He really wants something.
2:34:25Look, now let's check this one out.
2:34:27This don't have food as old, Joe, and all.
2:34:29Let's really get through the names of the 100 top people who would like to, you know, be buttered up for something.
2:34:33Somebody wants to be asked to do something.
2:34:37I was shocked the other day at Barnard Earl, but I can't think of anything.
2:34:43I've been in the White House since we've been here.
2:34:46That is awful.
2:34:47That is awful.
2:34:47It's terrible.
2:34:47Remember, in the 60s, you can do a great job.
2:34:49And Earl has these scandalous, abolished something wrong with our system.
2:34:53We miss a man like him, really.
2:34:55What was it that he wasn't acting in 68?
2:34:57Yeah.
2:34:57And so he doesn't come in on the outside list.
2:35:00He should go up on Rosen's list because, you know, he tells you he worked in the old Frank Coles, right?
2:35:04And he's McCarthy.
2:35:06Jesus Christ.
2:35:07Well, guess what?
2:35:08There's a guy that we, I guess he's 70 now, but what a guy.
2:35:13Good fellow.
2:35:13What a great guy.
2:35:18The other name you had on there was Texarn, who is...
2:35:21If you want to do something for Tonya, he'd be fine.
2:35:27Just great at it.
2:35:27I have thought of Bill Marion.
2:35:31But he does require a bid for Bill.
2:35:33Well, Bill wants something.
2:35:36You know, fringe stuff.
2:35:38We've done a lot.
2:35:39I'm trying to marry him.
2:35:40That's one way to get him off our chaos.
2:35:43But I can't get him out of the way.
2:35:45I'm trying to get him out of here altogether.
2:35:47Yet he's such a bore.
2:35:48He's a great public.
2:35:51So give him the job.
2:35:52He's a good negotiator.
2:35:54Mary, I don't know.
2:35:55I don't... Mary, over to you.
2:35:56Bill just saw this.
2:35:57As between Barton and Mary, there's no connection as to who'd be best.
2:36:01Bob Tyson would be great at it.
2:36:07Bob Tyson would be great at this job going over there as ambassador.
2:36:15Is he?
2:36:30I get the feeling that he's ready to get out of the business path.
2:36:37And he'd like to do something.
2:36:39He's only 58 or 59.
2:36:40He's in that age bracket.
2:36:45He's in that age bracket.
2:36:50He'd be looking for someone to take that annual spot.
2:36:55How Christchurch City could be great in that job.
2:37:04That's the kind of thing I would do.
2:37:25I think that's good.
2:37:26Not a thing.
2:37:27Not a thing.
2:37:30You get all that kind of technical support.
2:37:36And Earl Blake, I just want to invite him to just put on some commission.
2:37:45In one of your things, high-level things.
2:37:46Not a permanent thing, but he's just sort of honored
2:37:59I'm sorry.
2:38:00I'm good.
2:38:01I'm going to leave that.
2:38:06I want you to be involved in another change.
2:38:11Thank you.
2:38:15Roy Hatch is here to talk to him and see whether or not he makes a good take to this Undersecretary for Economic Affairs.
2:38:24Say hello to John.
2:38:24Is it under?
2:38:25It's not now.
2:38:25It's not a race.
2:38:26It will, it is.
2:38:26It will.
2:38:27The understanding would be, we'll put it like a selection of the race, but the understanding would be while he's Assistant Secretary, the rocker would immediately treat him as an Undersecretary.
2:38:34He's a deputy under at the moment.
2:38:36But for our purposes, he's undersecretary.
2:38:38He'd be here, and I would insist that he be at all those meetings that we have with the leaders of the committee and everything.
2:38:43We've got a view of a business standing on that, too, see?
2:38:50He'd be great at that.
2:38:51He'd totally outweigh it, wouldn't he?
2:38:52Oh, he'd be all right.
2:38:53He'd see it from all points of view.
2:38:55Then you see you've got a guy that also could go to Canada, right?
2:38:59You like to have people at that level around.
2:39:01It's actually a hell of a good, uh, financial transportation hub.
2:39:06And with the conference, the Tate conference is great.
2:39:09I have to say, Mr. President, that I was appalled when it was first announced and I am just as far on the other side now.
2:39:36He is superb.
2:39:38The way he handled that 130 businessmen that night, he said, I'm not going to preach to you.
2:39:45And of course, he was just preaching like Billy Graham.
2:39:48And they were talking to each other and saying, yeah, that's the way we do it.
2:39:52It was great.
2:39:58what he did to the New York Times when they thought they had him.
2:40:00Just put it right back.
2:40:02Put it right back.
2:40:03He is superb.
2:40:04You see, Pete, we need in the cabin, frankly, we need a couple of other guys who are potential presidents.
2:40:17Yes, sir, but we need some salesmen.
2:40:19That's even more now.
2:40:20That's what a presidential president is.
2:40:23He's got great work.
2:40:24Sure.
2:40:24There is a man that I don't think is going to find work.
2:40:28When you look at our political team, like Bowlby and Romney, they're fairly good salesmen, but they're not really consented to be heavy.
2:40:37We're talking cans of fuel.
2:40:39On the other hand...
2:40:44I think with his colleagues, I think he does that job exceedingly well.
2:40:58They're all deceitful.
2:41:12You know, there was a fellow, the past chairman of... Mr. Robert Tyson of the United States Steel Company, New York, please.
2:41:33I've asked him to talk to me.
2:41:37Very important.
2:41:49I think Ed got this study.
2:41:54Yeah, he's good.
2:41:55Good.
2:42:17There was a... the past chairman of General Motors was in here the other day and he said that he had heard that... Did you get another...
2:42:24The other one was sent out to be repaired also, Mr. President.
2:42:30Yes, sir.
2:42:33and they're so good that they have their very own.
2:42:36Well, you have a very thin point on that fine point.
2:42:38They make a broader point than the Senate.
2:42:40They make a broader point.
2:42:41I've got to go back and get my French can and get out of here soon.
2:42:49I've got some of those French cans.
2:42:52Mr. President, the one I've enjoyed in one way or another is that every subject I've had has been here with one exception.
2:42:59They've all got silver lining except for consumers, and that is without a doubt.
2:43:05They've given her to me.
2:43:07But we have a problem.
2:43:11Sorry to put this to you, and I'm sure you don't want to leave a long memory.
2:43:17The question is...
2:43:20We have to have a product safety.
2:43:22We have to have legislation on this subject.
2:43:23We're gonna be rolled on it.
2:43:25And I've taken the position that rather than trying to outdo the Congress, because we're never gonna get credit for it anyway, we'll be responsible.
2:43:35The business community is not going to castigate us for what we put up.
2:43:38We'll be able to come up with what we say is a good program.
2:43:41But one of the elements of it is consumer product safety.
2:43:45We've got to have some legislation to try and assure that the design of lawnmowers and all that kind of thing is safe.
2:43:52The question is, who runs it?
2:43:54Most of it is currently run in HEW.
2:43:58Maury wants it run in his shop.
2:44:01OMB thinks it ought to be an HEW.
2:44:03They would take it in Congress.
2:44:06While I have great concern about the inside of HEW, I think the logic is HEW.
2:44:10The point is, it's all crap in any event.
2:44:13We're not going to win on it.
2:44:16If you put it in Congress, we're dead ducks.
2:44:19We're putting it in.
2:44:20We're frankly having, it's like having the judge investigate himself.
2:44:24Right.
2:44:24Sorry.
2:44:28But under that, in ACW, but with the bill, not to be a punitive bill, with a lot of pre-market clearance and all that kind of business, would you knock that out of the environment, Bill?
2:44:35Hell yes, Bill.
2:44:36All right.
2:44:38We'll go on.
2:44:39Yeah, that way, Archer Burns is, and we're going to take a little time, I'm going to let that get caught in one, but we're going to have to trim the sails a little.
2:44:55Archer Burns.
2:44:58There we go.
2:45:02I was on this visit, Martin comes in, and he, you know, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow.
2:45:32First thing, well, the forecast, well, if you read it carefully, it's all right.
2:45:36But he's smart enough to know what the pressure's going to pick up.
2:45:40And it puts him against us.
2:45:42However, he says the problem is not money, it's confidence.
2:45:49And the moment he says that, it's reckless.
2:45:51People interpret it that he lacks confidence.
2:45:55What is confidence?
2:45:58God damn him.
2:45:58What do you think?
2:45:59I think it's inexcusable.
2:46:00I think that he could have been up there saying the same thing that we were saying.
2:46:05I didn't know if you looked at what he said because the Star Wars night had exactly the opposite headline.
2:46:09No, I did not read the Star Wars story.
2:46:11The Star Wars story is a new record.
2:46:12It's a new record.
2:46:23How are you feeling?
2:46:26Great, great.
2:46:28Oh, and you know, I'm like you, even the more the pressure, the harder the job we get.
2:46:32I always say to my friends that tighten up our junk guys.
2:46:38Remember what we used to do a little politics?
2:46:41Bob, I have something I'd like to have you discuss with Pete Flanagan if I want to raise it with you myself first.
2:46:53which has to be conducted in Geneva.
2:46:56It'll take a couple of months, and we don't want to go through the State Department because those people wouldn't want to do it.
2:47:04We want a top businessman, and of course whoever does it would go as president, ambassador, and so forth and so on.
2:47:13It requires, it has to be in the field of communications.
2:47:18But it does not be the man who was sending about communications.
2:47:26Now, I was sitting here talking to Pete Blanton, and we were going over things, and it just came up this morning.
2:47:37And if you would consider it, and don't tell me what you will do.
2:47:41I would like to have Pete give you a ring today and talk about it, if you would consider it.
2:47:46I want you to know that I would like for you to do it.
2:47:51This is not, let me explain, I can't even suggest it.
2:47:55It has nothing to do with cosmetics.
2:47:57This is a very substantive, tough negotiation.
2:48:01It's one where we Americans are strongly negotiating on our side.
2:48:05We'll develop, of course,
2:48:09all positions and the rest.
2:48:11And the main requirement is the top business exactly.
2:48:16That's what we're really looking for.
2:48:19So could you consider something like that?
2:48:30Pete, all right.
2:48:35Yeah.
2:48:37Yeah.
2:48:38Sure.
2:48:38Well, no, no, no.
2:48:39Don't even consider it.
2:48:40Talk to me about it and then chat around the whole thing and giving your best thought on the thing and then whatever we come up with, I'll understand it.
2:48:50You take it.
2:48:50Fine.
2:48:51If you don't, why, talk about whatever the name you might need to do it.
2:48:54How's that?
2:48:56Good.
2:48:58Good.
2:49:00Right.
2:49:02Yeah.
2:49:04Right.
2:49:05Well, things are going all right.
2:49:06You know, in this whole business, you've just got to keep slugging away, you know.
2:49:10When you pick up some of our papers and you read about Southeast Asia and you think things are going well, you've just got to remember that we're doing what they are.
2:49:20They are things that we could have done four years ago.
2:49:25Right.
2:49:31The more they correct me, the tougher I get.
2:49:33But anyway, that's right.
2:49:40Yes.
2:49:40Well, they will, because before, when it really matters, it'll all be over.
2:49:45Right.
2:49:46Right.
2:49:47Right.
2:49:48Yeah.
2:49:49I sure will.
2:49:50I sure will.
2:49:51And I do believe I'll come to you sometime this morning.
2:49:54Will you be where I reach you?
2:50:01Good, well he'll be, I'll get him a ring and he'll call you within, yeah, within a half hour.
2:50:05Fine.
2:50:05He's overcome.
2:50:09He doesn't look good.
2:50:11The first thing I have to do is call him so he'll overcome.
2:50:16I agree with you.
2:50:17He's starting to feel something.
2:50:20And now he's going to be called ambassador for the rest of his life.
2:50:26All right.
2:50:45All right, let's do a, let's say, you say your, let's find your name, but, uh, on Barney, shall we wait?
2:50:52I don't know that we should approach that through Roy Ash, or, you know, just call Barney.
2:50:57I wouldn't go through Roy.
2:51:01No, I don't, you don't want Roy asking, speaking for his boy.
2:51:04Yeah, and Roy.
2:51:10Personally, asking Texas to do something would be a damn good thing to do anyway, simply because he has had the feeling that he's struggling because of his ties with Johnson, and that he's starting to like him, even though he's a Republican and all he does now.
2:51:23Why don't I ask him if he would consider wanting to do that?
2:51:29Yes, sir.
2:51:30With the caveat that I started this out with,
2:51:33I'm here to do whatever you want me to do and to do what's best for you.
2:51:37I thought it through.
2:51:38I think that there are too many irons in the fire.
2:51:41I'm politically invited.
2:51:43You're good at that.
2:51:43You ought to do it here.
2:51:44I think he's accomplished most of what we need over there.
2:51:47And I think he'd be wasted.
2:51:52He'd be accomplished.
2:51:54He'd be wasted.
2:52:02I think you have to be in the stream in order to do it.
2:52:10You can't really have a position.
2:52:16You look at what happens with Cruz-Eisen and Samuel, those fellows, they're just out until they're given that job, particularly if the secretary doesn't want you in the stream.
2:52:28You've got two other undersecretaries who are doing it.
2:52:31the political and the organizational stuff over there.
2:52:37I just wonder if undersecretary for economic affairs is something that a company would consider.
2:52:43It's a problem, particularly when you don't have it.
2:52:45You'll remember it used to have that title.
2:52:46I know.
2:52:49And they downgraded it because they wanted two other undersecretaries.
2:52:52No, no, the State Department might find a political undersecretary.
2:52:59The question I think really is how long do you want Alex Johnson over there?
2:53:11How long do you want these two?
2:53:33Are you talking?
2:53:33Well, first, I think what you might do is to call, uh, uh...
2:53:37I can call Bill and say he's talking.
2:53:43I have an idea that's way out.
2:53:46I have an idea that's way out.
2:53:47I think, however, that's an enormously important position.
2:53:50Or maybe I could raise it with Bill.
2:53:53Yeah, I'm on it.
2:53:57I'll let you record it.
2:54:01You talk to Bill.
2:54:02Well I can tell them.
2:54:04I can tell them.
2:54:04You said you preferred to keep me here.
2:54:13And I can tell them kind of frankly, you know, we've just got a lot of things in the field, little plants and so forth, so many balls in the air.
2:54:20I want you here to handle all those.
2:54:24We just haven't got anybody on the screen at the moment.
2:54:30that I would be a power, it would really mean going for a big player.
2:54:35Bill is the kind of guy that would say, going for a big player is certainly a smart one.
2:54:39I'd be a powerful man, what the hell are you crazy with?
2:54:42I'd crawl around and take care of those little idiots.
2:54:45He'd be like, how about Dexar?
2:54:48Well, he'd be an opposite number.
2:54:50And, uh, sure.
2:54:55If Bill wants an operator, if Bill wants to get a guy in and save him, then send that to me because he sure would have it in front of him.
2:55:04Rogers, please.
2:55:08I'm going to get Tom in here today to see if he can come over and do his convenience.
2:55:30Arthur is, Arthur has such a successful ego.
2:55:37You've been awfully good.
2:55:38You've been awfully good.
2:55:40Well, good God almighty.
2:55:42I picked him up.
2:55:43He hadn't had the job in the first place, you know what I mean?
2:55:50We've done all that.
2:55:52We fired him up around his house all this time.
2:55:54We have been so socially oriented.
2:55:58It's all right.
2:55:59And also, Mark, isn't Paul that smart?
2:56:02He's a lot better now than his predecessor, Mr. President.
2:56:05Oh, listen, listen.
2:56:06We all know that, Peter.
2:56:10the impression, God damn it, he's creating a lack of confidence.
2:56:14Why, that kind of thing.
2:56:15He's not tackling the issue in the bulletin.
2:56:17Arthur, he's too smart.
2:56:18He's not going to know how his statements will be interpreted.
2:56:23And he is, when the word is said, the problem is not money supply, it's confidence.
2:56:26What in the Christ are they talking about?
2:56:28Confidence in who?
2:56:30The president, of course.
2:56:32You know that's what it means.
2:56:35I said, come on, Andy, Mark, say, you've got to talk in a ballsy way.
2:56:40You remember Poirot.
2:56:40What did he argue for the country?
2:56:43Fine, assuming that he did well in World War II, he screwed up the economic thing, except for the fact that he had an aura of confidence which Poirot and Hoover could not protect.
2:56:55And then, when they had him,
2:56:5815 million unemployed.
2:57:00That's what he did for the country.
2:57:02He sundered the spirit of the country.
2:57:03Now, Goddamn, when ours returns or any other jackass in this administration pops off and stuff.
2:57:08Now, Maury is a problem in this respect.
2:57:26Uh, let me, uh, you got it?
2:57:28Yeah.
2:57:28I've been talking to Pete on that thing, you know, Pete, uh, let me tell you this, uh, this can't be what it is.
2:57:33I think he did an excellent job, and I think he came up with a great accent.
2:57:36The problem that we have apparently is, is that Pete handles over here all of the, uh, the independent agencies.
2:57:45He handles the appointments and all that's going to be happening.
2:57:52Frankly, it takes a man a stroke who knows the big guys and all that sort of thing.
2:57:58And I just feel that we can't spare him for that because I thought, for example, we could put him over there and we could handle him from there.
2:58:06That won't work.
2:58:08You've got to handle him.
2:58:09But, so, you see, now let me ask you this.
2:58:11So I just, I got nothing for all three of the theaters.
2:58:15It seems to me that you might have an opportunity here if you want to come and this is way off.
2:58:21I don't know whether to go or a one of these business genius societies who could come in there and
2:58:32who looked for me in upgrading the position, who would give State the, you know, the letter of duty to all these negotiators.
2:58:39Now, here's a name.
2:58:40Thanks, Sergeant.
2:58:42Before you say yes or no, here's a colleague of my age, your age.
2:58:47He's made four fortunes.
2:58:49He's considered to be, of course, the closest to Johnson.
2:58:54He's always a supporter of mine.
2:58:56And he has indicated that as a middleman in the East,
2:59:00Would he be willing to do something?
2:59:03I mean, I just had a chat with him.
2:59:05He's here for the business council.
2:59:07If he would take such a thing, it would give, it would give, it would give a, it would give a something to this position and it is never, it's never used.
2:59:15It's basically like a packer for Indian City.
2:59:18Is that just a name that occurred to me?
2:59:21Does it have any interest?
2:59:24Now, the way he would have to do this is to deal with that.
2:59:28He might have to do it on a personal basis, but he could go.
2:59:33Now, the only problem we have here is that some of these
2:59:41Well, of course, he's, you know, he's, there he is.
2:59:44He's the, if Roy Ash was the operator, of course, Texas is the chief executive officer, but Texas is the state of, you know, one of the ways he's, he's American Americanized and all that sort of thing, but, but on our side.
2:59:57And he is a, he's a, he's a great, a,
2:59:59Well, that's really the thing that appeals to me about it is that you as Secretary of State would be bringing in a man who you consider to be, frankly, a very big man.
3:00:09I mean, you have a head of a $50 corporation, and who's going to give it up to come in and do this job?
3:00:14I think it would be a tremendous asset to the administration.
3:00:16Now, the thing that I was going to go on as Secretary of State, we say over and over, put this up in Congress,
3:00:26Because at the end, we don't have any idea that Congress should ever approve.
3:00:29Yeah.
3:00:31On the other hand, you could say that, I suppose catalog means something to us.
3:00:37You could say that, you could say that, well, that you would.
3:00:55Quite sure they might put a tackle over and, well, they have to do it faster.
3:01:02Yeah.
3:01:02Yes.
3:01:05Yeah, yeah, Samuel's a superb man.
3:01:08I've always been impressed by him.
3:01:11But if you have a tournament, this would be something, would be a, and I'm excited to have him around, too.
3:01:17And he's one of us all as a team player.
3:01:19He knows, he knows, he was here.
3:01:21Yeah.
3:01:36He does such a fine job out there.
3:01:40And his mother wrote me a letter or something.
3:01:46I just want to thank you very much for your good job.
3:01:49I hope you'll undertake other assignments.
3:01:53Yeah, well, if anybody has a design understanding, it's probably the CIA.
3:02:02Yeah.
3:02:22Joe Alsop was there, his wife, and they were saying, what a great, even else, what a great person this White House was.
3:02:29And I said, yeah, I'm glad it was.
3:02:30So I could all calm and thank him.
3:02:35That's how he was carried out.
3:02:38I'll just check.
3:02:43Yeah.
3:02:43Well, I'll just chat with him and say that... What is it?
3:02:52We don't think they have any sensation of us except that in his case, we might be able to have one on our side.
3:03:03Okay.
3:03:03All right.
3:03:04So I'll have Pete talk to you further about the, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll have him talk.
3:03:10I know it wasn't a big, of course, this small group, and it just ain't, you know, I don't know where you get any hands together, but...
3:03:17But his fault would be to be a public coup for the administration to have him on this.
3:03:20You know, it was these things, these problems.
3:03:23I mean, he's the kind of guy, for example, Bill, that when you admit he's oiled, instead of sending Irwin, which was fine, you should find out he could have gone out and handled that off the back of his hand.
3:03:35I mean, because he's a, he did, he did.
3:03:36What I meant is that it's very hard to take your undersecretary of state and send him gallivanting around on a special mission.
3:03:52Did it go good?
3:03:55Yeah.
3:03:56Yeah.
3:03:58Great, great.
3:04:00Yeah.
3:04:05Oh, well, good, good.
3:04:07Conley's a, he's got a great sense of humanity.
3:04:09His wife, she's attractive.
3:04:12You know, she has a lot of influence with John.
3:04:15And he's not a man that sees what he has for us.
3:04:20Yeah, she's the one that really rubs off what would otherwise make him just another Johnson.
3:04:26You know, okay.
3:04:30Yeah, yeah.
3:04:34Yeah.
3:04:37Sure.
3:04:38I assume that.
3:04:39I assume that.
3:04:46Sure.
3:04:46Well, I see.
3:04:47I just got the Jewish defensively in the league to quit burning up the Russian cars.
3:04:53Okay.
3:04:54All right.
3:04:56I think you talked about this.
3:04:58As a golf game, Rodgers, Laird, Blount at 12-15.
3:05:00Do you want to?
3:05:02No.
3:05:11You know, Nellie, Nellie Connolly, when she was up here for the Ash Council dinner with Suningax, I mean, she's just great, but she spent most of her time telling me how delighted she was to finally be in private life, how she was going to keep John right there.
3:05:25So you...
3:05:26I sat on the other side of her and she said the rest of the time telling me how John Connolly wanted to do something with the president.
3:05:34Oh, really?
3:05:35Yeah.
3:05:36She's a cry gal.
3:05:38She's great.
3:05:40No, we'll let them go on.
3:05:45I'll just call Bill and tell him how flattered I was that he talked to me about this.
3:05:50Right.
3:05:50Right, right, right.
3:05:52Actually, let's be sure to get something, though, that really is worthy of this.
3:05:58I think, in other words, it's a question of not simply going to... Did he show any confidence he could get this through the Congress?
3:06:07There's 300 secretaries in one department.
3:06:11You know, that's a problem.
3:06:13I just don't know if that's the only reason.
3:06:16I just hope we can think of something else for a pardon.
3:06:21The reason is that it expands our scope to get a pardon who is basically considered to be kind of Johnson and that sort, but who also leads to us and it's because they have a pardon.
3:06:34And rather than just going back to our same people, I mean, I always want to reward our same people, you know,
3:06:41You know, the Casey thing is disturbing.
3:06:42I got them.
3:06:44Bill Casey is smart enough to know that.
3:06:47Or maybe he isn't smart enough to know.
3:06:49Bill Casey is brilliant, but he's also absent-minded.
3:06:53He really is.
3:06:54He's done something.
3:06:56He was warned by Proxmire that Proxmire was going to bring up a certain thing in the hearings.
3:07:02And damned if Casey didn't just neglect to do his homework and kind of compound the error.
3:07:07It's not a terrible thing.
3:07:08It's just one more brick in the wall.
3:07:11Well, how long does it take for me to decide what to do about it?
3:07:15Well, how many of you are going to decide today?
3:07:16I thought I'd talk to John Mitchell, who knows him, too, and get his feel of it.
3:07:20And then probably have Bill...
3:07:23Write a letter and say he's sorry.
3:07:24The real problem is not having a good, tough SEC chairman.
3:07:28I don't know Crosswell enough, Mr. President, but it takes, it's not just a good business executive.
3:07:39It takes a different kind of objective.
3:07:42Well, you can do it very well.
3:07:46That's one of our problems.
3:07:47And to think that that fund goes to you, well, first of all,
3:07:59Well, the one on the top of the board gets $100,000.
3:08:01No, but I have a lot of money.
3:08:04One of my meetings a month, I got $12,000 a year.
3:08:07It's rough.
3:08:09It's terrible.
3:08:10Of course, he gets $100,000.
3:08:12He's a sweet, nice guy.
3:08:12And strong.
3:08:13He thinks well, but he's not very smart.
3:08:16With all the friends in the world around him.
3:08:19That's what they're after.
3:08:20That's how we got him.
3:08:22Everybody knows.
3:08:22It's who he knows.
3:08:23Now, who the hell he's got, we can put him.
3:08:25I don't know what we're after.
3:08:28If we wanted a tough fellow who could do the job, you probably don't know him, a fellow by the name of Jim Hargrove, who is the financial assistance postmaster general.
3:08:40Good, young, smart, tough guy, and he knows the securities business.
3:08:46I can't cross.
3:08:48I mean, just, he's the right age.
3:08:50That's the point.
3:08:52Right age, he's about, you know, he's a, he'd have enormous prestige.
3:08:56Does it make any difference that he's the head of a company that's on the board?
3:08:59No.
3:09:00No.
3:09:00I mean, you probably got to know something about him.
3:09:03In three inches, he's got a pretty pure reputation.
3:09:06Yes, sir.
3:09:06I don't even know a thing about securities law.
3:09:09I don't think a big company president knows a thing about the law.
3:09:12Why don't you find out what his background is?
3:09:15I will.
3:09:16If he's an industrialist in the real sense of the word, I really don't think he's the right guy for it.
3:09:20Well, you've got a guy.
3:09:20You can't take him out of our firm.
3:09:22Probably the best guy that I know is the czar.
3:09:26You take him out of the big Wall Street firm.
3:09:34I've looked at it.
3:09:35I've looked at it.
3:09:37Morin.
3:09:37Chuck Morin.
3:09:40The truth of the matter is Morin looks good.
3:09:42Now, Morin's problems are he has represented some mutual funds, et cetera, which doesn't bother me.
3:09:49But the truth of the matter is John Mitchell said that if his name was put up, he was going to come to the president to try and stop it.
3:09:55Why don't you give it to John?
3:09:58Why don't you give it to John?
3:10:05who never called back for you emotionally, but inspired you.
3:10:11But John Alexander, just think of all the balls, and who would be the best guy to be head of the SDC.
3:10:18He's done an enormous amount of top level security, particularly the Federal Guard and the SDC.
3:10:26But there's a problem, Mr. President, and let me tell you what I think the problem is.
3:10:29We went to that kind of a guy at the FTC.
3:10:32We got Kirk Patrick, who headed the ABA study, and he's a great lawyer.
3:10:37He doesn't understand our problems.
3:10:39I don't want him to change his rulings for us, but he's got to remember that this is a political world, and you're going to be up for election in two years.
3:10:47And he just lightly goes on doing what he thinks is right for the FTC instead of saying, what is the effect of this action?
3:10:55We want a fellow who understands that he is affecting... Well, that barn would be all right, and that's why Casey would have been good.
3:11:12Well, you remember I talked to you about that.
3:11:16I'm really inclined to go back to...
3:11:41I know that Mitchell is afraid of it because, frankly, Bob, the guy was a registered lobbyist in a mutual fund bill up here.
3:11:46He was registered as a lobbyist in a mutual fund bill.
3:11:50Probably because he knows his way around here.
3:11:54How about taking George McKinnon off the court and putting him on it?
3:11:59Wasn't he on the SEC one time?
3:12:04George McKinnon.
3:12:06I know, but was he down here?
3:12:09Was he in the... What an idea.
3:12:10When you were vice president, wasn't he down here as a, I mean, secretary?
3:12:17In Congress?
3:12:17Yeah, he was down there.
3:12:19He and I were in Congress together.
3:12:22But he's a total politician.
3:12:24He was the host counsel.
3:12:31Well, he's older than that.
3:12:32He's 63 or 63.
3:12:33That's all right.
3:12:3564.
3:12:35He's about the right age.
3:12:37But he's a hell of a guy.
3:12:38And maybe he'd like to do...
3:12:43He looks older, but he's still strong.
3:12:46Is he tough?
3:12:48Oh, yeah.
3:12:48He's tough.
3:12:48He's so political, it's unbelievable.
3:12:51He is...
3:12:53Did you want a guy, did you want political control of that place with a guy with impeccable credentials?
3:12:58Yeah, McKinnon is...
3:12:59Ideal.
3:13:00He's totally honest.
3:13:01Ideal.
3:13:02Absolutely.
3:13:02He knows a hill.
3:13:04He's, uh, he's a, he'll, he'll never get things to death.
3:13:08He was counseled, right?
3:13:10Was he not?
3:13:11You know, counseled for the front.
3:13:12For the front.
3:13:13Correct.
3:13:14But George McKinnon is a real bearcat on all this stuff.
3:13:19He didn't handle the Congress.
3:13:22He's a hell of a guy.
3:13:24and would clean out the staff.
3:13:25If he'd be willing, George, if you're not, Dan Reince, he'd do anything he wanted him to do politically.
3:13:31Oh, that's... Well, I don't want him to do anything politically.
3:13:34I just want him to think politically.
3:13:36How long is this position for?
3:13:38Five or six years.
3:13:39I think it's a big discretion of the president.
3:13:42The chairmanship is a discretion of the president, but the term of the commissioner is not.
3:13:46All he's asking to do is give up his lifetime gunship for this, isn't it?
3:13:53No.
3:13:54What you do is put him on this and then move him back off of it.
3:13:57He only has to do it for three years.
3:13:59Put him on for three years and then move him back to the court.
3:14:01You can't even guarantee that.
3:14:02He knows he's political enough to know where he wins.
3:14:06Politics can change, but maybe George is the kind of guy that can do it.
3:14:09You can put him on and put him back in the court.
3:14:11Well, this puts him on this for seven years.
3:14:13It puts him on trial.
3:14:13Five, I think.
3:14:14Five.
3:14:14All right, five.
3:14:15Still doesn't matter.
3:14:16You can pass your time to Tom.
3:14:16I mean, rewind him.
3:14:20In any event, he is a politician.
3:14:22I don't know what the court pays him, President.
3:14:29This case, I would guess, is Chairman 40.
3:14:3140. 40.
3:14:40You know, Mr. President, this right now is as important of an appointment as you've got.
3:14:52The one thing the American economy has that the others don't, they've all got big markets, they've all got technology.
3:14:58The one thing they've got is the ability to raise capital.
3:15:02None of the rest of them.
3:15:03Japan, Europe, England, they're secure as much and no good.
3:15:06This one counts.
3:15:07Do you think he's going to have to put a... Are you convinced of it?
3:15:13I'm 90% convinced.
3:15:14I've got Dean upstairs now.
3:15:15I'm going to talk to him and I'm going to talk to Mitchell and Mike.
3:15:17Yes.
3:15:17Right.
3:15:18Then you lose the country law society.
3:15:22Right.
3:15:22I think we're taking a risk with Bill and I don't think we ought to do it.
3:15:25Up with the stance and everything else that's hanging around us.
3:15:29Well, Stanton's problem was suddenly stupidity on the part of the stress people within him.
3:15:37He had a clarifying case, but they didn't get it out.
3:15:39As soon as he got it.
3:15:40No, they didn't in the first instance.
3:15:43In the first instance.
3:15:47Morey is not very sophisticated.
3:15:48He's got qualifications all over the Commerce Department.
3:15:51He's the best guy we've got to put in to take care of our clients.
3:15:54Morey is...
3:15:56He's good with the business people.
3:15:57They believe him, too.
3:15:58Totally loyal.
3:16:00He's good.
3:16:01But has somebody talked to him about this underling of his who disagreed with our figures?
3:16:05Because I'm having lunch with him today.
3:16:07Somebody's supposed to have lunch.
3:16:10Why put it on my list?
3:16:13I will talk to him.
3:16:13But I put it on every day.
3:16:15I remember about four days ago I put it on.
3:16:19I said, God damn.
3:16:20I spoke to her about it too.
3:16:22I will check with John.
3:16:23I will check with John.
3:16:24I don't know if you're having lunch.
3:16:26I'll be sure that we cannot have it.
3:16:29Here's what John says.
3:16:31John says that Bari believes the Congress Department owes as an obligation of all of its own.
3:16:37independent line, with regard to what it thinks about things.
3:16:40It has bullshit.
3:16:42Even, for example, the idea that Maury, of course, went out and was not frightening to do the main speech, saying, well, you have to have more trade with Russia and Eastern Europe.
3:16:51I know he believes that.
3:16:52I don't believe it, too.
3:16:53But I've told Maury, and he knows it, that some of you have found that gear kind of social content.
3:17:01Didn't want to give it away to free.
3:17:03He...
3:17:07I mean, in that speech.
3:17:09Seymour's not very smart.
3:17:11I mean, I love him.
3:17:12I mean, he's loyal.
3:17:13But when I come to him, I'm not mad at him.
3:17:15He knows better than that.
3:17:16See what I mean?
3:17:19Sure.
3:17:19Every business man is for that.
3:17:21Every business man wants to trade with the confidence.
3:17:25Of course they do.
3:17:25But come that, you don't give it away free.
3:17:27Whether he's right or wrong, he made the point to you when you told him, I'm sitting here, that we have to move slowly in this area.
3:17:35And you should have stuck with him.
3:17:36I do.
3:17:37Well, don't raise it with him now.
3:17:40I'm John Holt.
3:17:41Don't even bother calling John.
3:17:44He features in those morning ventures.
3:17:47I'm not sure we didn't want to bother him with it now.
3:17:50But you might raise it with him in St. Maureen.
3:17:52He considers me his friend.
3:17:53In St. Maureen, nobody here in this administration is more loyal.
3:17:55And then I can start off with Ardenburg tonight.
3:17:58That was a silly man thing for him to say.
3:18:01He used the word confidence.
3:18:03And your thing indicating you disagree with the figures is going to make the Congress Department look good if their estimates are too high.
3:18:08But what the hell is this?
3:18:09That's what all these economists, all they care about anyway.
3:18:12What we're concerned about is not making the Congress better.
3:18:15We're concerned about saying those things that may turn the confidence around.
3:18:18And you've got to talk confidently.
3:18:20Or he doesn't talk confidently.
3:18:22Hell yeah, the old baronet.
3:18:23Damn it.
3:18:26I think, frankly, even if you shouldn't be fired for that, someone should be fired if they're going against the administration.
3:18:49He went against Stantz at that time.
3:19:12So this ought to be as against the administration.
3:19:13This is against the administration.
3:19:14It really is very important.
3:19:16We fire next to the line and it's only going to be really done.
3:19:21But we ought to do another one, Pete.
3:19:23Somebody down the line who gets out and makes one of these statements.
3:19:26That's why I want that gold sign fired or moved, you know, via us.
3:19:33I sure do agree with that.
3:19:36Okay.
3:19:36They're so independent.
3:19:38Well, he may be right on his figures, but just to stand there and say exactly the opposite of what the Secretary of Labor has said is inexcusable.
3:19:48I'll talk to him.
3:19:49If the Secretary is wrong, you should write an eyes on the amendment of the Secretary saying your statistics were wrong this morning.
3:19:56That should be the end of that.
3:19:58Okay.
3:19:59Thank you.
3:19:59You can call.
3:19:59Hello.
3:20:00Hi.
3:20:08work because of the position.
3:20:11I agree with him.
3:20:13I don't think it's high enough.
3:20:15I think that the trouble is, no matter how important his deputy, undersecretary of control, is, most of all, I ask him to tell me that he can't work because of
3:20:27You get a change first and then you can't get involved in the following.
3:20:32So it's a high position.
3:20:34The purpose of that is for us not to get that kind of a guy unless you change the position first.
3:20:39Maybe I should suggest that you get the position changed.
3:20:43Sure.
3:20:43We're talking about undersecretary .
3:20:46You can't get a heavyweight for a deputy undersecretary.
3:20:50You want to get somebody who wants a job.
3:20:55Okay.
3:20:56Is Samuel sleeping?
3:20:57No, he wants, we want somebody who's, can be more, would.
3:21:05No, he's still, he's saying, I'm trying to get a change.
3:21:17Thank you.
3:21:17I'm sorry.
3:21:18I'm sorry.
3:21:19I just think it's important.
3:21:24Stannis is right.
3:21:25He doesn't have influence.
3:21:29It's not our own argument to shake this government.
3:21:30He really has.
3:21:32There should be.
3:21:32Somebody gets out of the cab.
3:21:37I don't think so.
3:21:37Maybe we can get Marty Martin to get out and put in that job.
3:21:47I don't think Robert's work is going to be any much of a heavyweight in that job, Bob.
3:21:52I do get bulky out if you're in that job.
3:21:54Bulky?
3:21:55What's he talking about?
3:21:58What the hell would you make?
3:22:01Nothing.
3:22:02It should be done.
3:22:03It should be done faster to the back.
3:22:06You're actually supposed to be running all day.
3:22:27But he wants to
3:22:50The other problem is that the guy won't be in the upstream so he won't be able to cross around the bowels anyway, which is, with the value of the plan, it would be to get a white house spy in the safety department.
3:23:15He'd be kept out on the fringe where he'd never be able to break through the crust anyway.
3:23:21So it'd be counterproductive, or at least it wouldn't be as disruptive as keeping the planet in here.
3:23:28That's the idea.
3:23:28It must be the areas of the planet that would get over there and just be used and submerged.
3:23:34If he could have been made undersecretary, he would have been very close to Frank.
3:23:49That looked at it maybe in the Irwin.
3:23:51Yeah.
3:23:52Not Irwin, so they could be knocked Irwin to sleep tonight.
3:23:54It's not hard.
3:23:55And now Bill is finally realizing that he needs somebody who has some confidence in the White House.
3:24:00You see, he knows I have confidence in Irwin or Johnson.
3:24:03And he said to his workmen, Dean would be a great asset to Rogers.
3:24:08A huge asset.
3:24:09A great asset to us because he'd play our game.
3:24:12Rush would have been good.
3:24:14Right.
3:24:16He impressed me on this negotiation I'm doing with him.
3:24:20He's really superb.
3:24:22When we get going again next week, that's really working.
3:24:26I mean, we've got the mechanics of it, and nothing will ever show on that, because Russia will feed it in and says, I'm here.
3:24:42I have one chosen matter that Bob Alters has been bugging me that he wants, well the way he puts it is he wants to leave in June unless you have an overwhelming reason in some other job to keep him in the administration.
3:25:02He wants to leave Brussels, he didn't say.
3:25:06He said his decision is to leave
3:25:10Leave government?
3:25:12No, it's to leave government.
3:25:15And to make some money.
3:25:16But if you want him, he will of course listen.
3:25:20He wanted to do that before.
3:25:28And there's no hard feelings.
3:25:30In fact, we've given him a hell of a job.
3:25:35And he's done a good job over there.
3:25:36Who else would give him a good job?
3:25:41It's a nice clone.
3:25:43How about that, though?
3:25:44It has to be on a diplomat lawyer type of thing.
3:25:53It's very, very... And that's got a lot of energy.
3:26:04It's not easy.
3:26:04So the jury was fucking me at the dinner, but Mr. Husbandry should be made ambassador to Italy.
3:26:16Oh, God, he raised us.
3:26:19That's a good one.
3:26:21That would be a butter disaster.
3:26:25We can drop it.
3:26:27That's a good one.
3:26:41They love to talk Japanese.
3:26:44Japanese.
3:26:44Japanese.
3:26:45The reason Joe keeps being considered by people like Colombo is a very lower class South Italian type.
3:26:54And since it's not bad what it has to do, there's no foreign policy business.
3:27:02What you said this morning, Mr. President, you may not realize had a profound effect on Italian domestic politics because
3:27:11Moro is really the strong man in the party.
3:27:15And by putting your own personal weight in the direction you did, that's the only thing these guys are interested in.
3:27:23They don't give a damn about foreign policy and they don't understand it.
3:27:27But domestic policy, they play absolutely for blood like a group of Florentine princes.
3:27:34One thing I think is important is
3:27:40and I've talked a little to Martin before, and he's been talking to us about this.
3:27:46He said it would be helpful to say something about the domestic, political thing.
3:27:54I said, how could I let the talk come about these things?
3:28:01So I said, all right.
3:28:02So the important thing, Henry, is to do what I'm sure is not done enough by Martin or Bill or any of the rest.
3:28:06I always believed that
3:28:08in any particular area, is that when they come in to see whoever is the president of the country, that we don't get into that nitpicking crap about this party, that party, who's this, and this, and that, and the other things.
3:28:22But you've got to take them to a mountaintop and say, here you are.
3:28:27What you lose is the following fact.
3:28:29The Italians are the best Europeans.
3:28:31They'll remember that the rest of their lives.
3:28:32The Italians are the best Europeans.
3:28:35That actually happens to be true.
3:28:37Yeah, they are.
3:28:38And I said the others have other things to try.
3:28:43They all got that.
3:28:44They'll remember that.
3:28:45They'll go on to say, the impact, the impact, they laugh.
3:28:49The other, I'm saying, the impact of what happens in Europe, the impact on Latin America.
3:29:01That's what was so powerful when you said, when you said, oh, certainly when you said that the bad guys won because the good guys wouldn't work together.
3:29:17That's exactly the Italian situation.
3:29:19And when you said that we are looking to the Christian Democratic Party, that's exactly the problem.
3:29:25They're divided.
3:29:25Their left wing is really as bad as trade.
3:29:29was in Chile.
3:29:31And Moro is playing a very complicated game.
3:29:36He's the most, well, not the most, he's one of the most devious men in Italian politics.
3:29:44Well, he wants to be president, so he's going to play a complicated... President?
3:29:48Yeah, they have an election this December.
3:29:50And Moro's going to go for president?
3:29:53Yeah.
3:29:56President in Italy, because the party is being divided, the president has tremendous power.
3:30:06He can pick the prime minister and he can play them off against each other.
3:30:15From now on, though, the rule is clear.
3:30:20No more war on these issues.
3:30:21None.
3:30:21No excepting this one over.
3:30:27Incidentally, this was requested by Spain.
3:30:30This was requested by Spain, Mr. President.
3:30:34This didn't come through.
3:30:35I have it.
3:30:35Second, with regard, I realize we have to have it.
3:30:38But with these countries on it, remember, and no others, no exceptions, not Portugal, not Spain, not Greece, nobody else.
3:30:50There are only the big ones.
3:30:52The U.S., that would be England.
3:30:57Nobody else.
3:30:58No Latin American country.
3:31:01No African country.
3:31:03No Asian country of any kind.
3:31:09Not Indian.
3:31:10Right.
3:31:11Right.
3:31:12Absolutely.
3:31:14That's it.
3:31:15So we're going to have to come back here.
3:31:26I will see the British foreign minister.
3:31:28I've seen the goddamned German for a reason.
3:31:30I see the British because he's a friend.
3:31:33But I'm not going to see the attacking foreign minister if he comes along.
3:31:42Don't bring him in.
3:31:46See?
3:31:46No go.
3:31:46There it is.
3:31:47And I will under no circumstances see the Japanese foreign minister.
3:31:51Never.
3:31:52I better think about it and ask you a letter.
3:31:55Cold letters, eh?
3:31:57I'm refusing to take calls from his side.
3:32:03They're picking up quite a few cashes now.
3:32:09They've cut all the roads except the one that goes through the center of the country.
3:32:17And on that one, they don't have a supply system.
3:32:19It goes into the open.
3:32:21It only had 50 trucks on that road, of which
3:32:24We have four large battalions on it.
3:32:26Do you feel that this kind of meeting is the best thing ever?
3:32:31Is to take them on the high plane?
3:32:33Oh, I think... Rather than getting into this nitpicking... That's the question.
3:32:39See, they hear this state all the time.
3:32:41These guys are state... And they can't do anything with it when they come home.
3:32:45See, an Italian prime minister, really, of these two today, Moro is by far the more influential.
3:32:49Is he?
3:32:50Oh, yeah.
3:32:50Colombo was his prime minister because...
3:32:54The big guys couldn't agree among each other who should run the government.
3:32:59So Mauro Manzani and so forth are out, and then Prime Minister Colombo, who's a nice fella.
3:33:07He's a hell of a nice guy.
3:33:09I've known him a long time.
3:33:12But he's not very strong, and he doesn't have his own apparatus.
3:33:15But you gave them something which when they come home, they can quote.
3:33:21And in Italian domestic politics, the president is incrementally important.
3:33:24Good.
3:33:24I would like to go over a couple of things with, uh, on Ford, on Henry Sutton.
3:33:43Now, it was earlier around the day that you said the line hours would be very soon.
3:33:49Oh, maybe he might be prepared.
3:33:51No, I don't know.
3:33:52He's going to come.
3:33:54Yeah.
3:33:54Well, he could come in.
3:33:55He could come in and he could come in while Henry's here.
3:33:58As a matter of fact, I'll come in in 10, 15 minutes.
3:34:01We'll do that.
3:34:04Let me check.
3:34:05Yeah, see what it's doing.
3:34:13What do you love to do?
3:34:15I thought that was it.
3:34:46but you thought it was, you still want to be running 4 o'clock roughly, or do you want to trade?
3:34:50Good, 3, 2, 1.
3:34:51Let me think, I think 4 o'clock, you'll get it.
3:34:54In order to do all this, it's next to the sweet one I was going around with you.
3:35:00By 4 o'clock, just say 4, and if I change my mind, I'll hold it up.
3:35:10You know, you want to get out, you can in some way,
3:35:15This story, Henry, about the influence on foreign heads of state, it's not gotten out at all.
3:35:20Parliament's been bugging me about it.
3:35:23If you're the only one that can get it out, how can we do it?
3:35:26Well, when I have luck, I've got to do it.
3:35:28Let's do it outside the Chalmers Rapids.
3:35:29But any others, you know what I mean?
3:35:31Or some people in Ohio.
3:35:35But you see, it's something that is the hand on the forehand, the first man in the world to be able to answer anything.
3:35:44It's very impressive.
3:35:45It's got to start getting across.
3:35:49It is a fact, we know.
3:35:51But the important thing is the ability to sit and talk to these clowns.
3:35:58Every different once, different days, to do it without a note or anything.
3:36:02I mean, this is a, they can press conferences or something.
3:36:05This is something that you know very well.
3:36:08No, there are no other presidents that have been able to do it.
3:36:11Absolutely not.
3:36:12They've always had their secretaries of state there.
3:36:14You know that.
3:36:15All right.
3:36:16Okay.
3:36:17I think that's a good point to make.
3:36:19Why I meet with them without secretaries of state.
3:36:21I don't need anything.
3:36:24And that I'm not because I'm smart, but because I work.
3:36:29I don't have to do it all.
3:36:31You have that light experience, Mr. President.
3:36:33You've been in these countries.
3:36:35You've been in these countries.
3:36:36Foreign leaders did not say the name.
3:36:39Let me ask you, getting back to the other thing, how did you feel?
3:36:44I was reading the grizzly reports today about the damn CES cut.
3:36:51Oh, they must be wanting us to move so badly.
3:36:54We're stuck.
3:36:55We're stopped cold.
3:36:57I just got sick of the CES thing.
3:37:01Terrible losses.
3:37:03The morale of our people in the medivac,
3:37:07and the GIs up there are having to blow around because of the North Vietnam and South Vietnam.
3:37:13He's getting the beer first.
3:37:15It was the worst goddamn reporting I've ever seen.
3:37:18I've seen it.
3:37:18What about now?
3:37:20What is the matter?
3:37:22I talked to Motor about it.
3:37:24I think one problem is...
3:37:28Well, the trouble is they're not letting them in.
3:37:31They're sitting on our side of the frontier.
3:37:34If they had gone to my rifle company during the Battle of the Bulge and interviewed these guys, everyone would have thought the war was lost.
3:37:43Because G.I.
3:37:44is always bitch.
3:37:46We know them.
3:37:47They mention about the food, they mention about the officers, they mention about the annuity.
3:37:51And they don't have a clue to what's going on.
3:37:56The North Vietnamese, the South Vietnamese have cut three out of four of the major roads.
3:38:04I think that's true.
3:38:05That is Bob Scali, you noticed it, put it out.
3:38:08Put it?
3:38:09John Scali.
3:38:10Yes, he did, Bob Scali.
3:38:13Also, I had him in and I showed him the roads and...
3:38:17I sat there and I showed them the top secret map because there's nothing on there except pens.
3:38:23I said, that's where the units are.
3:38:24You see for yourself.
3:38:25It's my own map.
3:38:26We've cut the pipeline.
3:38:32We're picking up lots of supplies now, which isn't a primary service.
3:38:37But yesterday, for example, they cut 110 tons of rice.
3:38:42which is uh and you also pointed out that the uh the fires and the pipelines and on top of that they're getting uh they they're about these troops what about the attack on the northern flank you told me on the phone last night that the our guys had handled themselves well that's right now they had heavy casualties but on the other hand sure they have to be careful the north we must have had fearful casualties because they were they were shelled
3:39:12Under tremendous artillery fire, they've had B-52s on them, they've had tank arrows on them.
3:39:17Those B-26s out there, are they still being repaired?
3:39:21They are being repaired, I understand.
3:39:23Look, can I just get a date?
3:39:25That's all right, that'll fix it.
3:39:28Tom, the President specifically wants a date.
3:39:30When can the first B-26 start dropping bombs?
3:39:34Get it for me today.
3:39:37The idea that the other thing that ran all through the news report was that our military were distressed, discouraged, and so forth.
3:39:45You've got them.
3:39:46I've got to quit saying that.
3:39:49Who's saying that?
3:39:50Is that that curse of your thought?
3:39:52Who's saying that?
3:39:53Well, I think the public information policy out in Saigon is a disaster.
3:39:57And I told Haig to get together Ziegler and text him.
3:40:03immediately to get it to get a clear line they have to say the hell with how deep in we are we're not uh if you want to i'll get to the map and i'll show it to you where they are why don't i just get it because it's ridiculous i know this is a vr element and we have got to start building
3:40:31I was sitting in those VR guys out there.
3:40:34The next road we're cutting... No, that's not USIA.
3:40:37Is that USIA?
3:40:39No, it's DIO.
3:40:40And we've got to do better.
3:40:43From defense?
3:40:44Yeah, from defense.
3:40:45Well, good God, then.
3:40:46People tell me
3:40:52But of course our press is out to kill us on this too.
3:40:56The thing that's driving them all crazy is when Harriman says the North Vietnamese can't afford to lose the war.
3:41:08Hell, last year he was saying the South Vietnamese couldn't help but lose the war.
3:41:13If people start worrying now about the North Vietnamese losing the war, they must be...
3:41:23So it's almost hysterical.
3:41:26And the reason it's frantic and hysterical is that they're afraid this son of a bitch thing will work.
3:41:30Exactly.
3:41:31That's all.
3:41:31But you take the worst possible interpretation of this, assuming not all the roads are cut, assuming they're just cutting supplies by 40%.
3:41:40Still, if you ask yourself what these two divisions could be doing now that's more useful than killing these South, these North Vietnamese, and choking off these supplies and picking them up, I don't know what it is.
3:41:55Well, actually, let me say, having said all this, I am completely resigned to the fact that the press is going to bang us and it's going to be, you know, we're going to have this and that.
3:42:08But the point is we're going to have some losses there.
3:42:12There are going to be battles that are lost, but we're going to win the war.
3:42:15That's what we're getting down to.
3:42:16And I know this.
3:42:17I've decided now we're not going to lose it.
3:42:20And I mean, we are not going to lose it.
3:42:22And that's why when we talk about bombing here and there, of course we're going to bomb.
3:42:26We're going to bomb.
3:42:27We bombed North Vietnam last night.
3:42:29We went out to some sand sites that you authorized six weeks ago.
3:42:33There were a lot of explosions.
3:42:35They knocked out.
3:42:36And that's a good signal to them.
3:42:41And I think the North Vietnamese, all these units that are now fighting them,
3:43:58So I think that the North Vietnamese were going to move those units that they now have fighting north of Route 9 into 1st and 2nd Corps in September and back us.
3:44:20Now that they won't be able to do because they're going to be even out.
3:44:26And also we've got a
3:44:28The report here from a Japanese news correspondent who has traveled in North Vietnam, he says, a Japanese correspondent stationed in Hanoi from mid-67 to September 1970 has stated that food shortages, especially in the southern provinces, constitute in North Vietnam the most serious problem.
3:44:48The second major problem was the general low morale of the populace and the growing unwillingness to continue the sacrifices for the war.
3:44:57They were worried in case of an allied landing in Vinh that the population wouldn't be able to fight.
3:45:04Other sources have also reported morale problems, who destroyed in the southern provinces, while reactions for most of the population are fairly adequate.
3:45:13They are definitely in trouble.
3:46:10It really disgusts me, and I'm sorry, to the extent that we were assuring the Chinese that we, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that.
3:46:27They could get the tone of what I said in the news cameras.
3:46:31You know, we're not going to do too much.
3:46:34Keep it a little leery.
3:46:35Now, Bill isn't doing this, but there's some people down there out of the mood.
3:46:39Well, you, actually, Frank, will be pretty well turned around.
3:46:42He wrote a very good article yesterday.
3:46:43Did he?
3:46:44Saying?
3:46:44Wasn't it Rasmussen wrote a good piece?
3:46:47Yeah, and Frank was saying, remember, he's talking to two audiences.
3:46:50He's talking to Hanoi and he's talking to the United States, and this was addressed to Hanoi.
3:46:55The news conference.
3:46:56The news conference.
3:46:59The reaction to that has been generally good, isn't it?
3:47:01Very good.
3:47:02And Hanoi is screaming, bloody murder, which is a good sign.
3:47:05And our press, too, they respect that kind of talk.
3:47:14The president and our press is right now only terrified that you'll succeed.
3:47:20And I could see from Humphrey, he just thinks foreign policy is a loser for them.
3:47:26He said, however, that one thing he pointed out, which we've known, is he said the pressure the senators are put under by congressional aides is unbelievable.
3:47:37He hadn't realized that until he came back.
3:47:39You know, I just go home and I say, yeah, I really felt for you.
3:47:46You have to get bright people.
3:47:48Because you do other work.
3:47:50Now, most of the bright people are left-wingers.
3:47:53Because their professors are left-wingers.
3:47:56Isn't that a horrible thing?
3:47:58You seldom have a guy that you can really count on, can you?
3:48:01How many can you really fight on in your staff?
3:48:05Not many.
3:48:06Hey, who else?
3:48:11I'm a cold one on that.
3:48:13I don't trust any of these elections.
3:48:15Well, I don't tell them.
3:48:16I respect them, but I never trust them.
3:48:18This fellow Halpern, the only one that I've had that can hurt us is Lake.
3:48:21Halpern did no damn thing.
3:48:24But Lake is a softie.
3:48:25Yeah, she's not strong.
3:48:28But Halpern, for example, now he's gone.
3:48:31That's great.
3:48:32We let him go in July, since you and I.
3:48:35They go up there, and he's history on me.
3:48:38You know, Hopper and me up there, we're answering that guy.
3:48:54Well, you know, even though it's a small little group, we do have some people that have been quite good.
3:48:59I mean, we did the Alsops and Dick Wilson, and, you know, they're highly respected guys, even though they don't like them.
3:49:05The fact that they're married in a brewery and others go up and have an orgasm about it.
3:49:12But that's what he's getting.
3:49:13Oh, yes.
3:49:15Joe's getting to him, and Joe's a believer in social security and all these things, and I don't know which of us they should be listening.
3:49:22I think they're trying to tell their press record, and they're in the fashion section.
3:49:28Oh, we have.
3:49:30Yes, of course.
3:49:31Roland Evans is basically with us on it.
3:49:33He hasn't written yet.
3:49:36Well, to be frank with you, he's a fashionable subject to an extent.
3:49:40I think he started seeing that, my God, maybe this fellow is these people.
3:49:46We just may turn a few around.
3:49:49As I said, as you said, of course, if we should happen to survive the 72 elections, they'll turn.
3:49:55And when they turn, we'll get them right in the ass.
3:49:58Believe me, we're not going to build on this.
3:50:00They're going to come crawling after the 72 elections.
3:50:03And they can crawl for the rest of their lives.
3:50:06You know what I mean?
3:50:06They're going to crawl for the rest of their lives because, Henry, you cannot build on morally corrupt people.
3:50:11You cannot do it.
3:50:12I don't mean that they can't have been against us from time to time.
3:50:17She says, Joe Ossoff has written some vicious things about me.
3:50:21I understand that.
3:50:22Because he was so strong for Kennedy.
3:50:24But you know, that love affair ended quickly.
3:50:26That was purely social.
3:50:27Yeah, purely social.
3:50:28They had to be gutted enough.
3:50:30But I don't think he's got any respect for Kennedy.
3:50:33He would never say it.
3:50:35No, he says it.
3:50:35He says it.
3:50:35He told me what he did.
3:50:37He told me.
3:50:40I think a lot of them are going to get on with the Kennedy myth.
3:50:45I think the Kennedy myth is dying because this...
3:50:51I talked to Harvard professor yesterday, chairman of my department.
3:50:54He's one of the few decent guys.
3:50:58He said, you might not realize it, but you bought yourself time with Laos.
3:51:02They were all set.
3:51:04They've got a peace treaty, a draft peace treaty, which in effect says coalition government fixed their life for withdrawal.
3:51:12And they were going to get a lot of universities to sign that now.
3:51:16Doesn't make that bit of difference, except it builds a little heat.
3:51:20Well, now they're planning to have this stuff signed.
3:51:23Now in March, they're going to concentrate on Laos.
3:51:28And in April and May, they're going to concentrate on getting that peace treaty signed.
3:51:33I can endorse my university faculties with a big state of withdrawal and so forth.
3:51:38Well, if we get this Russian thing on the track again, we'll be serious.
3:51:52You have some money?
3:51:54No, that's all right.
3:52:00Thank you for your time.
3:52:04I think you're going to find it very enthusiastic.
3:52:08You want to say it?
3:52:09No, no.
3:52:10I want you to watch.
3:52:11I say it.
3:52:11Listen.
3:52:11No, I'm devil-educated.
3:52:12No, but I was going to move something to the side of the room.
3:52:14Matthew, you go ahead.
3:52:15This is mostly domestic law.
3:52:16I'll let you see what one subject was not.
3:52:28I think, Henry, it's very important to be sure that Peterson feels in.
3:52:33He's a lively thought, and he wants to be, and he's ambitious as hell.
3:52:38And I think the way to bring him in, I think we've got to have you, Schultz, Peterson, early.
3:52:44I want you to get them all together, John.
3:52:48Maybe you are in.
3:52:49I want you to take the lead so that it comes.
3:52:53Take the lead.
3:52:54Get the four of you together socially.
3:52:57to have a little chat, and then now that with all of them, that you're basically the big pie of the staff, you might throw Flanagan
3:53:07Just I think it would be good to have him in it.
3:53:11So the six of you sit around and have a discreet accord.
3:53:14I wouldn't put in McCracken, I wouldn't put in David, the science advisor, those others.
3:53:20How does that sound to you?
3:53:21I think it's going to be a good ball player.
3:53:23Yeah.
3:53:25Or do you?
3:53:25I can't tell you, but he's certainly, he's not into some of my problems, but some of the issues.
3:53:34Good.
3:53:35What I want to do is to set up a job.
3:53:36We had some time ago this thought of a little inner group.
3:53:39And that is the group that I should think of.
3:53:41There's only one other one that I can think of, and that's Conley.
3:53:43And the reason I would suggest Conley is that he's a total politician and a son of a bitch and a duck fighter.
3:53:52I do not suggest Mitchell because I want Mitchell to do some other things.
3:54:00I want him on the partisan side.
3:54:04I like the questions that Peterson is asking.
3:54:06I mean, I like the way he's approaching his problem.
3:54:08Tell him you like it.
3:54:09Yeah.
3:54:09Yeah.
3:54:10Tell him I didn't press the button when you do that.
3:54:14In other words, let's get him.
3:54:16I don't...
3:54:17Here's what's going to happen.
3:54:19Everybody's going to try to capture him.
3:54:21Particularly states that are trying to capture him.
3:54:24Don't let the state capture him.
3:54:27You're right.
3:54:28I like Sanctus.
3:54:28Sanctus is fine.
3:54:29I think it's difficult.
3:54:29Matter of fact, we may run it around the other way.
3:54:31Sanctus may start playing to us.
3:54:35I had a good talk with Peter yesterday.
3:54:38You see, Henry, so many of Peterson's problems that are in the province will lack over in the year.
3:54:47I mean, let's suppose he gets into the cooler thing.
3:54:50That'll lack over in the year problems.
3:54:52But suppose he gets into the, what the major oil thing, of course, does, the Rolls-Royce thing does.
3:55:03I think all the time, remember the last time when Kennedy wanted me to call with him for three or four days, and you said no.
3:55:11So what you have to do is that you have to play a political role.
3:55:16If I were you, though, I would leave the economic role to him, mainly because I don't want, and I don't leave it to him, I don't want to waste, I don't get myself involved in it.
3:55:32I thought I had another on economics.
3:55:35You didn't do it.
3:55:35But on the politics, see, the way I want you, I would like for you to look at this thing the same way I do.
3:55:41You look at it like the political men and sort of be my, what we call my, surrogate on that point.
3:55:49Because what I want you to do is to come in on every one of the Peterson Committee recommendations of getting a political analysis.
3:55:58But he had some interesting ideas on the balance of payment of the international monetary system, how he wants to approach it, which would take into account the foreign policy and domestic policy.
3:56:08The other thing that I want to add, I do want to have a reason to do this, that this, to me, is just a shocking statement by Stanton.
3:56:18With regard to trade with the Eastern Journalists, for instance, throwing away the game.
3:56:23I've booked a job.
3:56:24I don't want to throw away the game.
3:56:26But I don't want, we don't want to raise those fans.
3:56:30Now, he's a loyal man, a more loyal man.
3:56:31But the difficulty with fans is, and he believes this, and it's popular with the business community, we cannot, though, have fans.
3:56:41Pop them off about something that we're trying to trade with.
3:56:46Correct.
3:56:47If we get this thing floating again with the Russians, then we can do something.
3:56:53It won't float.
3:56:55I think it will float because they're not doing it for us.
3:56:57They're doing it for themselves.
3:57:01But Henry, I really believe that the Russians
3:57:05Well, they never give any indication that they like it, that they are interested in this economic stuff that we put out there.
3:57:12They're terribly interested in it.
3:57:14They want credits.
3:57:15They want trade.
3:57:16And we'll give it all to them, but for a price.
3:57:19We don't give it away cheap.
3:57:21That's what they feel about us, aren't they?
3:57:23Right?
3:57:24Absolutely.
3:57:25How does that leave you, Kenny Spurge?
3:57:39This is the reason that it's not...
3:57:41I'm sure Schultz, for example, favors the trade for these.
3:57:45I know every business stand that's Peterson won't favor it.
3:57:54I favor it.
3:57:56But, by God, we're dealing for Peterson, and it's an absence of business.
3:58:01Isn't it?
3:58:02Yeah.
3:58:02That's it.
3:58:03That's it.
3:58:03We're losing it to the Swiss.
3:58:05$70 million down the drain.
3:58:07Alright, and we refuse to grant the license that I still haven't signed with the Swiss.
3:58:11They keep keeping it open every month for another month.
3:58:15So we can keep that open in March or April.
3:58:21I was saying that within two weeks of this exchange of letters, we are limited.
3:58:26It's the old question of the stance of policy fidelity and just having these guys understand what kind of health policy is.
3:58:37And it's a daily struggle.
3:58:40He knows what a policy is.
3:58:41And he started, as you said, I believe it was his response, though, to speak for the business and carry the cart around his neck.
3:58:57But this business, you know, okay here.
4:01:20They're having their policy committee meeting next week.
4:01:27And they're coming up with wall-to-wall regionalization as a counter to .
4:01:45So I thought I'd broach that over here.
4:01:47So you have a little bit coming out of it, and it's more of the same.
4:01:52Next week, or why don't you just say next week the Democrats will come out and just say that if the press is there, if the press isn't there, if only you want the press there.
4:02:03Well, we'll get it out then.
4:02:04We'll get it out.
4:02:04But I want to get it out of the way that you said, John, earlier, and we'll get back to that next week, the Democrats.
4:02:13This is something we consider is not an answer.
4:02:18It's simply compounding the errors of the past.
4:02:22And, of course, that's another way of government.
4:02:25Another way of government, and again and again, is that it cuts the state legislators out of the appropriation process.
4:02:33I'm sure if I got home today, it was the way of the government.
4:02:37And so I thought I'd probably relate to that, and I'll make sure it's covered.
4:02:47It's a lovely day.
4:02:48All the others have gone out to play golf.
4:02:58Well, you sure blanketed the television last night with these physical fitness athletes and the YRs.
4:03:09And of course all the business of the athletes was covered either with you on talking about jogging or with the silence and commentary.
4:03:30It was just mixed.
4:03:35And he does some things good.
4:03:36I sure do.
4:03:37I sure do.
4:03:38They sell it on the cover.
4:03:40I do it every day.
4:03:40Yeah.
4:03:40Like, I'm going to get something tomorrow with my next job.
4:03:43And then the little old man in there, he's a great analog.
4:03:46Just think of that.
4:03:47No comment.
4:03:48He was silent.
4:03:49But it was good.
4:03:49And one of them ran, I don't know, 30 seconds just in the guy's hands.
4:03:53It was very interesting.
4:03:55And while they were talking to him.
4:04:00And the commentator was,
4:04:11It's a lovely day, and all the others are going off to play golf.
4:04:19Well, you sure blanketed the television last night with these, with what, the physical fitness athletes and the YRs.
4:04:28Who would they be if they were talking to you and saying, no, we've got a comment on it.
4:04:32She played with me on a golf game, and she said, I don't know what you're concerned about last night.
4:04:38And it got very heavy stuff.
4:04:40And of course all the business of the athletes was covered either with Yuan talking about jogging or with silence and commentary.
4:04:52It was just massive.
4:04:54And it does some things good.
4:04:55I sure do.
4:04:56I sure do.
4:04:57They sell it on the cover.
4:04:59I do it every day.
4:04:59You know, Mike's going to get some tomorrow with my nice job.
4:05:02And then the little old man in there, he's a great help.
4:05:05Just think of that man.
4:05:06He was great.
4:05:07No comment.
4:05:07It was silent.
4:05:08It was good.
4:05:09And one of them, what is it?
4:05:10A friend, I don't know, 30 seconds, just the guy's hands.
4:05:16Very interesting.
4:05:19And while they were talking to him, and the commentator was talking about what he was going to do and all that kind of stuff.
4:05:27They were just, I guess I have to say, we did the press release all over the network.
4:05:31Yeah.
4:05:31It's just never happened.
4:05:34We just, we just would get, you know, we'd do those all the time, you know, every day, you know, something.
4:05:38Sometimes they go, and sometimes they don't.
4:05:39It depends on what else they've got that day.
4:05:41Well, that, and the consumer price index, and two or three other things.
4:05:44By the time I turned that first page, of course, it was CPS and those.
4:05:46Cronkite had that little twist at the end, but it better be around again.
4:05:50But I don't think that's a worry.
4:05:52No, it's not a CPS.
4:05:58The war stuff was bad last night, but the rest is good.
4:06:01It's going to be bad.
4:06:02Sure it is.
4:06:03Because they've got to prove it.
4:06:06But the other stuff is good, and maybe it's across the line.
4:06:13Did anybody pick up the Wilson thing?
4:06:17Somebody did.
4:06:18No, both of them did.
4:06:19One in the morning.
4:06:20Bob Tearpoint was very late on the CBS morning thing.
4:06:25No, no, no.
4:06:27And that was a CDF line.
4:06:28He said, today's show, Terry, you ran some footage that you actually talked about.
4:06:34Fairpoint did a commentary about that.
4:06:38The best speech you'd ever made.
4:06:39I mean, you'd worked harder than gone.
4:06:43Well, I worked on the part they used.
4:06:47That's because it was personal.
4:06:50Is that the name of the song?
4:06:52Edward David.
4:06:52You've got to get him in now sometime.
4:06:56Mm-hmm.
4:07:02Screw us.
4:07:02I'm tired of that.
4:07:03It's not going to happen again.
4:07:08Can I read you my comment today?
4:07:10No, sir.
4:07:11You ain't going to read it today.
4:07:12I'm just down on serious.
4:07:16I read it in.
4:07:18I'm not going to let him.
4:07:19He's smart enough, John, to know, when he gives testimony, how it is going to be interpreted.
4:07:24Now, Paul McCracken is not.
4:07:27Paul wouldn't know.
4:07:27Maury Sanderson.
4:07:29Maury didn't know how to play.
4:07:31But Arthur is smart as hell.
4:07:33And he knows.
4:07:33Let me tell you what was concerning about the testimony.
4:07:39He said, Paul, as he was speaking to both sides, when he said the problem was not the money supply, it was confidence.
4:07:46What the hell does that mean?
4:07:47He's kicking us.
4:07:49Where does the confidence come from?
4:07:51Confidence in the administration.
4:07:53He's got to say, I am confident.
4:07:56And I just feel that we've got to get people talking, or you get the impression.
4:08:00I had a terrible, very bad impression.
4:08:02I thought it was exactly what he was doing.
4:08:06And his answers were very slow, very hard.
4:08:10The questions were bloopers.
4:08:13I was in the transcript of the stuff I saw on television.
4:08:15They were soft questions.
4:08:18And the purpose was growing up, so I had to set it up.
4:08:21Well, I've tried to get a copy of that.
4:08:26It's gone.
4:08:26We're going to have a meeting on this.
4:08:29I'm going to get a copy of it.
4:08:31You and I and Charles are going to have a talk.
4:08:35Now, he sat there yesterday in the quadrant and took a look at Jesus on the side of the lake.
4:08:40So Charles told you that in a nice way.
4:08:44But Arthur is going to get his comeuppance.
4:08:46I'll tell you why.
4:08:48We hate Arthur.
4:08:50Arthur, second, is not as brave as he thinks he is.
4:08:53And also, Arthur forgets that I have a memory.
4:08:58consistent in arguing all over the law.
4:09:01I mean, I'll never forget how he and I, and I know that one night he's against the controls, the next night he's for it, and so forth and so on.
4:09:12He, the start of the proposition is, he is the people.
4:09:16says he is infinitely better than McCracken, he's much better.
4:09:21But Parker is trying to carve out a niche as David Gray enters this whole business, as he's acknowledged when I got to the president's office, and he came out again to the wage price board guy.
4:09:33And we're going to start building somebody else up.
4:09:35I'm not going to have one.
4:09:38We don't have Colin to take him on.
4:09:39But I'm going to give Colin a month.
4:09:41Colin will wait a month.
4:09:43He's going to work on it.
4:09:45Or I'll be trying to work on him.
4:09:48He's out of his league with Colin.
4:09:50He's always sleep with me.
4:09:51He's been well treated.
4:09:54He's been treated socially.
4:09:54We have this on him every now and then.
4:09:57He's been a sucker.
4:09:58I haven't been dressed.
4:09:59And I am just god damn tired.
4:10:02I hear him.
4:10:02Peterson, Teddy, and Arthur.
4:10:03Pinching him on his protocol and all that stuff when he was over there.
4:10:07First visit.
4:10:08You know, this whole business of ours has been working on us.
4:10:11He's always number three man on the international delegations.
4:10:15Makes you think he's number one man in all this business.
4:10:19He just walked in the door.
4:10:21How do you do?
4:10:22Sat down and he started working on Pete.
4:10:27I think Peter said if we handle ourselves well, we can enlist him.
4:10:31He's an epitome of manhood.
4:10:34He's an intolerant man.
4:10:37I think it was good that I had him sitting with the fortune thing.
4:10:43He got a chance to oversee a little of it.
4:10:48He had an enormous press record, though.
4:10:55He's the kind of guy that's trying to bridge the- Bridges the- Bridges the- The diversity.
4:11:01Yeah.
4:11:02But he's got, in my view, a shrewder sense of salesmanship than anybody we've got around except Conley.
4:11:07Yeah, yeah.
4:11:08And, and, uh, and Barty Abel with Conley.
4:11:11Well, being in the economic area, I'd like to see us start focusing on guys like Colbert Rowland and Ned Dale and some of these guys.
4:11:20And look, Peterson worked on them.
4:11:22And he's got to swap over into the domestic.
4:11:25And Lenny was, you know, he was good, but I mean, he wasn't a fortune-teller or anything, so it was good for him to hear me talk to them and show some understanding of how to make a non-linguistic hand, but you can actually get just sitting here and reading stuff.
4:11:43But, hey, but Peterson, Peterson is going to be quite a long life, so, yeah, but we got to, and I'll line him up to cut Archer.
4:11:48We're going to cut Archer down to size.
4:11:50Now, Archer only understands power.
4:11:52The way to do that with Peterson, I would suggest, is not you, but you, or George, or both, sit down and say to Peterson, we've got to cut Arthur up.
4:12:03I wouldn't... How'd you do it?
4:12:05Well, before you were over there, I tried to get the players here.
4:12:11He wants to be programmed.
4:12:12Yeah.
4:12:13What's the background of Arthur?
4:12:21The way he's got to do it, he's got to work with him whenever he's in the political.
4:12:27He's got to be on the political side, and his judgment is infinitely better than his.
4:12:30I mean by political, you know, on the international.
4:12:34And better than anybody else.
4:12:36The tank will not just be for the foreign countries.
4:12:38It will be for us, too.
4:12:39The State Department will be disastrous.
4:12:41You know, he's talking about how the players go.
4:12:48about the importance of his working with Pete in.
4:12:52I told him that, did you?
4:12:54I did.
4:12:54Because Pete's having trouble getting Henry to hear it.
4:12:58Oh, I spent an hour with him yesterday.
4:13:02Yeah.
4:13:02And two weeks.
4:13:02Wow.
4:13:03Yeah.
4:13:03I didn't even know he had a problem yet.
4:13:06I assumed that he might have had a problem.
4:13:09First rate.
4:13:15I think having flag men is a good idea, too, because flag men has a lot of dirty jobs to do.
4:13:25That's very good.
4:13:26We can practice our tactics and we keep at it, but if a 489 overreacts, then I'm sure it's OK.
4:13:33But, John, I have one line that goes out, but I don't do it anymore because I know how the line lines.
4:13:41I don't do it very often, like you said.
4:13:46Arthur knows.
4:13:47He's been in this town for 20 years.
4:13:50You agree with him?
4:13:51Absolutely.
4:13:53He knows exactly what we're talking about.
4:13:58We've talked to Arthur about the devastating implication of that line in the past.
4:14:05And so he's, it didn't ever occur to him.
4:14:09I'd like for somebody to return this call.
4:14:12He said the White House staff doesn't let your, my views be known in the voting that I see you use all the time.
4:14:18He just puts it on the paper.
4:14:20I'd just like to know, well, I could call back to the president.
4:14:24He's been working very hard.
4:14:26He's uncandid and not taking any calls, which he's getting on his world report.
4:14:30But I must, I think you, I was only there to tell you he was very distressed with this report.
4:14:36He realizes he probably said that the whole testimony, but it seems that it was now a human time.
4:14:42You don't have to live with the son of a bitch.
4:14:48Or should it be done?
4:14:49It should be done.
4:14:50Yes, sir, it is.
4:14:51But for you to suggest lack of confidence, that is that, and the rest of it is that it
4:15:11of the split, and frankly, you've just got to realize this president is not going to stand for this.
4:15:17Give our enemies a... Give our enemies a... And I'm not going to stand for it, and I'm not.
4:15:23Frankly, I'm just in fine with it.
4:15:27I'm just in fine.
4:15:28I think that's kind of the next alternative here.
4:15:32I think you should do it, Bob, rather than George.
4:15:34George, of course, is an actor.
4:15:37I think it's better to fire him than to have a unit.
4:15:42No, you're the only one.
4:15:44But he said he can't take a job, Arthur.
4:15:46I know we're trying to reach him, but he's going to be there in his seclusion.
4:15:50Tomorrow, the rest is, you know, he's got the 60,000.
4:15:54We're all reporting this.
4:15:55I'm not talking about Arthur.
4:15:57I guess it's only fair to touch him.
4:15:59But it's really hurting.
4:16:04and distressed.
4:16:05I mean, he saw what you had said before.
4:16:09He was shocked.
4:16:11I got, I think it was, and then he wants to come in and see me.
4:16:14He said, Arden, we'll see you.
4:16:17No, we're going to have a quadriangle meeting next week.
4:16:19I'm not going to see him alone anymore.
4:16:23Do you agree, John?
4:16:23I do agree.
4:16:24I think you're a serious disadvantage when you see him alone.
4:16:28And just say, no, Arden, we're
4:16:31I've been with the Quadriads.
4:16:32I've got the same numbers.
4:16:33He comes in and then goes out and brokers everything.
4:16:36And he has no right to see me alone.
4:16:37He wants to be independent.
4:16:38He's got to be independent.
4:16:39He's got to go to the Quadriads.
4:16:42They've got that.
4:16:42Well, I think it's good discipline for a while.
4:16:44Yeah.
4:16:45Chopping off some of these socialists.
4:16:48Yeah.
4:16:48Kind of freezing them a little bit.
4:16:50Make sure it gets here just by the Quadriads.
4:16:53And letting them know that they're cookies when he's a good boy and not when he isn't.
4:17:00One thing I was going to say, John, I guess this is your problem.
4:17:04I want you to keep Roger Spartan from getting an ass himself.
4:17:09Now, on that Alaska pipeline, it's pretty hard.
4:17:12But on the Alaska pipeline, he shouldn't have said that, in my opinion.
4:17:17I understand that that pipeline's got to be built.
4:17:19Is that true?
4:17:20Yes, sir.
4:17:21Some lines.
4:17:22He's got a plan that says it should be built from Canada.
4:17:25But for Morgan to get out there and say it's going to be a long race and so forth, he was...
4:17:29He's brown-nosed, he's oppressed.
4:17:32What's your reason?
4:17:33I've tried to reason my brother Bob Hitt, who's his already on that.
4:17:39Bob Hitt?
4:17:41Yeah.
4:17:41And by God Almighty, do we have to do anything?
4:17:46We've got to make sure that Bob Hitt, he's sweet enough.
4:17:49He's a loyal, easy-to-see administrator.
4:17:51I know that, but I don't know.
4:17:52I think Bob Rogers can get hit.
4:17:54This is not working.
4:17:55Really?
4:17:56Yeah.
4:17:57And I thought it would be that way.
4:17:58He just doesn't have it.
4:18:00But I didn't write to him either.
4:18:02This guy, I don't know.
4:18:04I should get him on the National Committee.
4:18:06I had a very interesting call last night from Wally.
4:18:10And Wally had been called by the New York Times and the Post and a lot of people for commenting on this.
4:18:17And he said, I issued a very noncommittal statement.
4:18:19He did.
4:18:19Very, very soft reply.
4:18:21And he said, I didn't want to reply.
4:18:23He said, I was just calling you to warn you.
4:18:26that Martin is getting out beyond his depth here.
4:18:28And that he said, he said, I don't make trouble for it in the long run.
4:18:34And he said, I, you know, the ancient history, so he said, I don't have to tell you where I stand.
4:18:38But the point is, if I were to first face it on the pipeline and accept it,
4:18:48this field, and I've got to watch Morton and others.
4:18:52I'm not going to have him get out there.
4:18:54Brown knows he needs environmentalists.
4:18:56We're going to get an audience that we don't have.
4:19:00I don't know where the audience is doing that.
4:19:03Maybe there are ways to do it.
4:19:05We can have it be the two.
4:19:10I don't want Morton going too far.
4:19:19Now, I have a meeting set up with Ruppershaus on this subject, and I just have one more, just to make sure.
4:19:31How do you express yourself to them?
4:19:35How or why?
4:19:35Do you have an undersecretary who basically could do some of these things?
4:19:43Why do you have one?
4:19:51Well, on this one, I'm not sure this is the word you're talking about.
4:19:57Well, Morton, or Robertson.
4:19:58Morton.
4:19:59Morton.
4:19:59Oh, I've got to get control of that, or else, with both of them, or else it's going to get away from us.
4:20:03Bob did his nice job.
4:20:05He'll do what we want.
4:20:06So, I just haven't got any confidence right now.
4:20:10We've got an interesting thing going over there that I should talk to you about, and that selection here is undersecretary.
4:20:18Mal Laird, do you know about what Mal's done?
4:20:21No.
4:20:22Mal has gone to Raj and said that he, Laird, would take it as a personal affront if Schlesinger were made the Intersecretary.
4:20:33When he wrote me, I didn't think that Laird would want to get rid of me.
4:20:36I would have thought that too.
4:20:38And it took me off to this and said, what's behind all of this?
4:20:43All right, tell Kissinger to talk to Laird and say,
4:20:49Well, let me tell you, I don't think that'll work.
4:20:52I think the better way to do this, if I could suggest, would be for us to make an appointment with Morton to come in and see you one morning.
4:21:01And for you to say, I understand you're interested in Schlesinger.
4:21:04I think it's an excellent idea.
4:21:06Let's agree.
4:21:06All right.
4:21:09And freeze Laird out of the action.
4:21:10Because the way it's like now is that Laird has an appointment to see Morton Monday afternoon.
4:21:18And if you've got Martin in, and you could also advert to this if you wanted to, this pipeline thing, just say, let's not kick our friends.
4:21:26But the important thing would be to say, let's go on Schlesinger.
4:21:29I agree with him.
4:21:30Let's lock it up.
4:21:30And if Martin says, well, if Laird had something he wanted to tell me, you could throw that off and say, well, I know there are a few hard cubes there, but I think this is basically what we need to do.
4:21:41Why don't you just call him on the phone and say that now?
4:21:45Sam running over, he's in an alligator looking at the airways.
4:21:49Mark.
4:21:49Yeah.
4:21:50Jesus Christ.
4:21:51Everybody runs down and chases those alligators down.
4:21:54All right, you can arrange that.
4:21:57Is that all right with you?
4:21:58Sure.
4:21:58Let me ask you now about another thing.
4:21:59This, your protege, Mosky.
4:22:01Yes.
4:22:01Mosky, teach me.
4:22:02Which is not me, but Matt and so on and so on.
4:22:08No, it's you.
4:22:10It's a piece of pizza.
4:22:15I don't know what he said.
4:22:18He's not very, his head isn't true, but I didn't hear him say anything.
4:22:25But I have an idea there, but I don't know if you can see it.
4:22:29No, I haven't seen it.
4:22:29In a trip, somebody should have had it on the news.
4:22:31Sorry, I didn't arrive this morning.
4:22:36You may be called when you get a call.
4:22:43No, we don't.
4:22:45We've come to a conclusion.
4:22:52Well, that's exactly what we talked about.
4:22:56The problem is, of course, there is no such thing as a recall.
4:23:02That was our first move.
4:23:03That's where we were at the time.
4:23:09whereby there is no recall of a congressman from the state of California.
4:23:15Recall is under state law, not federal, I'm sorry.
4:23:18Well, I've done a little checking on that, and the ratings guys have begun a plot to redistrict McCloskey and throw him in with Gobson.
4:23:31Gooser?
4:23:32Gooser.
4:23:32Well, but the Goosers, they're so huge that they've got to make two out of that.
4:23:37Well, we will, but they'll both, McCloskey and Gooser, will end up residing in the same new district.
4:23:44Now, what I'd like to know, at the present time, McCloskey's going to get clobbered anyway.
4:23:52At the present time, his colleagues are taking him on.
4:23:54But at the present time, I think, let's retire.
4:24:02He betrayed the voters who elected him.
4:24:06I just think that's a good idea.
4:24:10You'll get a hell of a lot of people signing it.
4:24:12I think you would.
4:24:13You'll get a hell of a lot of people signing this thing.
4:24:17He said, we don't want to recall them.
4:24:21Of course it was recalled.
4:24:23But I think people have got to... You wouldn't get a recall because that district would... Well, he passed up the win on you.
4:24:30He passed up the win.
4:24:31Well, he didn't like my policy at all.
4:24:34All right, let's go.
4:24:36Let's have Tom get something.
4:24:38Get it done.
4:24:39Get the young Republicans.
4:24:41Get a recall.
4:24:42He has called for the impeachment of the President.
4:24:46That's what I said.
4:24:47Don't talk about the war.
4:24:48He's called for the impeachment of the President.
4:24:51We can beg for this.
4:24:52He does not represent his district anymore.
4:24:55Or we can figure out something.
4:24:56Okay.
4:24:58He craves the trust of the voters who elect him.
4:25:00By the very sound of it, he's called for the impeachment of the president.
4:25:05I mean, so that it's an up-and-down deal on the president's end.
4:25:09Well, I think...
4:25:11But it gets him off in this kind of a kick.
4:25:14He's a funny guy.
4:25:17He's, uh... For one thing, he's not feeling well.
4:25:20For another thing, he's absolutely hit on Vietnam.
4:25:23He's got a blind spot.
4:25:24And he's the kind of guy who passes the recruiting office and goes in and signs up.
4:30:33And what do you think about the Vice President?
4:30:35I talked to Colson some about that.
4:30:39I talked to him and went through this whole thing.
4:30:43He would do anything he's told to do except work for the Vice President.
4:30:49How about planning to do it?
4:30:50Well, I did a thing yesterday afternoon, just a matter of curiosity.
4:30:53I walked over and went in the Office of Winter Government Informations and walked around.
4:31:00We still have the same three guys over there running that thing that have been there for the last two years.
4:31:06Really?
4:31:06Hillsbow?
4:31:07Hillsbow.
4:31:07And he's still there?
4:31:08Yeah, still there.
4:31:09And somebody named Culture and somebody else.
4:31:13And so I'm starting to, you know, in personal secrets, you think of a man with a job.
4:31:18I like to feel that they're doing, that for their sakes, they're doing something.
4:31:21They must know they're not doing it.
4:31:23They are.
4:31:24See, they're not...
4:31:24The Office of Intergovernmental Relations has nothing to do with the Vice President's project for dealing with governors and mayors.
4:31:31So I thought literally... You heard my crack right there.
4:31:34Sir?
4:31:35You heard my crack.
4:31:36I tried to build the Vice President up.
4:31:37I did it with both the Scottish people and the United Republicans.
4:31:43I said, you know, I just told it all.
4:31:44I'm sorry, Vice President.
4:31:46Did you know that, John?
4:31:48He wouldn't go speak to this gentleman about the leadership thing.
4:31:52I did it every year as vice president.
4:31:54He wouldn't go.
4:31:56What's he thinking about?
4:31:57I got first there and then second.
4:32:00He could go to any party group because he'd be non-declared.
4:32:03Right?
4:32:03Right.
4:32:04Something's wrong with this gentleman.
4:32:06Now, good or bad?
4:32:07Good or bad, I guess.
4:32:08But what I said was that I said the Vice President, you know, he's very busy.
4:32:11He's out selling a record of sharing.
4:32:13And I said, as a matter of fact, he does more in real substance and foreign investment policy than the Vice President.
4:32:19And I said, the reason you don't know is that the only time he makes news is when he hits the press or hits a golf ball.
4:32:24Ha!
4:32:28I talked to the governor this morning, and I said, why doesn't those votes go away?
4:32:33He said, until John Mitchell gets him a judge's job, he's not going to budge.
4:32:38And I said, well, Roy, he ain't going to get a judge's job.
4:32:43Somebody's going to have to.
4:32:44John said, oh, I don't know why.
4:32:46Well, because he doesn't consider it competent.
4:32:50Jesus Christ, the former governor, anybody could be a judge.
4:32:55John doesn't look at it.
4:32:56He's got a lot of problems.
4:33:03Did you talk to him?
4:33:04Did you follow up?
4:33:05Yes, sir.
4:33:06What was the reaction?
4:33:07That bro was just tickled to death.
4:33:10Did he also notice that I said that he was a black cop?
4:33:14He likes that face.
4:33:15And he said that he would like to thank me on this event.
4:33:20And I said, now...
4:33:21In addition to having your input, however, we will naturally have input from the Department of Justice.
4:33:27So he didn't think that he was going to make the inquiry.
4:33:31Also, did you call with him?
4:33:33Yes, but I haven't been able to reach him.
4:33:35He loved to hear that.
4:33:36The President was thinking of a way where we make a new breakthrough in entirely new fields.
4:33:42We've got another new breakthrough in entirely new fields about to come up.
4:33:45Could I ask you to do one thing about the replacement for the black girl on here?
4:33:51You don't need to be a black girl.
4:33:54And this is something that's rather difficult here, I don't think.
4:34:00Does it have to be particularly common?
4:34:03No, we're going to, we've got the girl.
4:34:04Oh, Christ, we've already decided.
4:34:06Let me just say what you need.
4:34:07We've decided what we can change it.
4:34:09We have done it.
4:34:10Let me tell you what you need.
4:34:13And the little girl's fine.
4:34:13I mean, I know that she's a very good snorkeler and she drinks.
4:34:25Second.
4:34:26Yes, sir.
4:34:26Is that any pretty?
4:34:27That's very good.
4:34:28You're goddamn smart.
4:34:29But is that the way he comes at the time he comes into the office?
4:34:32Because that's been one of the highest people he's ever walked through there.
4:34:35It's terribly important who sets out in the president's office, doesn't mean particularly pretty, but a personality type, okay?
4:34:41Totally got it.
4:34:42Who you got?
4:34:42Terry Decker.
4:34:43Well, how was that?
4:34:44Was that better than that?
4:34:46That's a very good looking gal.
4:34:50You could put a girl, a rose ten years ago with an ID.
4:34:57You see what I mean?
4:35:01Very nice.
4:35:03And she knows her way around.
4:35:06Oh, she's about 19.
4:35:07Oh, Christ, she's too young.
4:35:12So take a look first.
4:35:15I don't know who it is.
4:35:16It's on your birthday or that anniversary time when we brought the oldest and youngest secretary.
4:35:21Oh, yeah.
4:35:22Rose was the oldest.
4:35:23This one was the youngest.
4:35:24Oh, God.
4:35:24Rose will honor her mind.
4:35:26That's too bad.
4:35:31She will honor Dan's confident mind.
4:35:33I don't think she will.
4:35:34No.
4:35:34Terry's proved herself.
4:35:35Rose has got her attention.
4:35:37And Rose has got her attention.
4:35:41When the Buchanan marriage comes off, is she always going to stay at home?
4:35:47I presume so, but I'm not sure.
4:35:49Okay, often.
4:35:50Oh, sure.
4:35:50She's invaluable, and it's good, and they need them on.
4:35:54I'm sure they are.
4:35:54It doesn't violate our laws, does it?
4:35:57Oh, you've been married.
4:35:57Oh, hell, we've got a service.
4:36:01We're on there in different departments, and they can't work for each other.
4:36:06And that's all.
4:36:38I'm sorry.
4:36:38No, that's all right.
4:36:45Do you remember, did he really respond to you?
4:36:48Yeah, very much so.
4:36:50And he was very abusive in thanking me for calling him and all that stuff.
4:36:57Do you remember, MOU sent me, Whitney, I announced to you in that phone call about a judge, he wanted a name, Ferguson?
4:37:03Yeah.
4:37:03Oh, Ferguson.
4:37:04The ambassador to Gallup Police.
4:37:07Yeah.
4:37:08He didn't recognize you.
4:37:10That's okay.
4:37:11That looks like the best choice.
4:37:14Good.
4:37:15And the case wanted to get him on some circuit court and it can't.
4:37:19And so I talked to Mitchell about this in order to be sure that we had the skids pieced.
4:37:24And Mitchell said, hey, this may work out four or five different ways.
4:37:27So Mitchell was going to talk to Brooke and suggest this guy.
4:37:35Well, I'll talk to Whitney.
4:37:36I'm telling her that the president has been enormously impressed with Mr. Ferguson.
4:37:41The Ferguson Act is about Ferguson.
4:37:44And he thinks that he's going to be a great...
4:37:52And the President considers this to be a more important appointment actually than the District or Circuit Court thing because it's a new area.
4:37:59We have volunteers.
4:38:00See, that's where Edward DeVries came up.
4:38:04He's a black seat, a black judge for a black seat.
4:38:07I just think it's great.
4:38:10Well, that was all nasty.
4:38:11Now, Millsville, we've been standing on one foot or another and many wanted to meet you.
4:38:18That's where I have to get his resignation.
4:38:23We've paid him for two years.
4:38:25I think we've got to talk to the vice president.
4:38:27The vice president's got to do this.
4:38:28Yeah, that's all there is to it.
4:38:31But now let's talk to the vice president.
4:38:33Who the hell are we going to put over there?
4:38:35If you don't lose Colson, I agree.
4:38:37Colson just needs to resign.
4:38:40Yeah, I mean, Steve just wouldn't have his heart in it.
4:38:44He just...
4:38:46He'll work on the inter-government relations follow-up stuff, you know, and all that, but he's really, he's got so much going now, and he's doing so much of it so well that it's kind of productive to pull him out of that into something else.
4:39:01In fact, I think what we've got to do is move more strongly and overtly than we have on the client thing, and push that harder.
4:39:09I wouldn't call it talk to her, but...
4:39:13What do you mean?
4:39:14Well, you know, I had my first talk with him, and that's the final one, supposedly.
4:39:20And he hasn't fought.
4:39:21He's still, you know, he gets out on the road, and we can get him out, but he gets back as fast as he can.
4:39:26As soon as he comes back, he starts running the office again.
4:39:31And I'm just going to tell him directly, you aren't running the office anymore.
4:39:34Chuck Colson is.
4:39:36and say we're changing that because Magruder's going to be moving into politics more and more, and we've just got to change the whole thing around.
4:39:42And I'm going to tell him that the option to that is, if it doesn't work out with Colson, that we're going to go outside and bring in the best PR man in the United States and have him do it.
4:39:53And if we do that, then that guy will have to come in as Director of Communications.
4:39:59And that Herb's, all of Herb's self-interest is in playing our game this way on it.
4:40:04The State's Director of Communications will give Rob Odle to carry his briefcase, because we've got to get him out of there too.
4:40:11And he's a little fellow they have in the office who programs things.
4:40:17It's not very well.
4:40:18It's always distorted in life.
4:40:23This guy was, frankly, the reason that I had reasons in that briefings at the YRD was because we're all going to screw up.
4:40:31Yeah, no question.
4:40:32But I was so shocked.
4:40:34And it just came to me as a, I was really, well, Steve didn't know.
4:40:41So I asked the president, I said, are you having a blue zone partnership?
4:41:16We'll move the departure outside until about 2.30.
4:41:23Well, I think the service is going to have to fight that.
4:41:28Do you have some explanation?
4:41:48It's going to be common, and I'll stay around.
4:41:55He cannot.
4:42:00I read the people that he is drawing some.
4:42:02I don't know what I mean.
4:42:05It's really, I don't want to bet, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,
4:42:33It's a serious problem.
4:42:34It is.
4:42:35He is proving to be.
4:42:37It's a problem with Sam.
4:42:39And facing the Sam decision making, the rest, whatever the situation, apart from the campaign, the campaign-wise, he could be a great assistance.
4:42:55Or, you know, if you move, you've got to, you've got to prepare for somebody else.
4:43:03so that you don't get a hell of a runoff.
4:43:05But on the other hand, apart from that, you've got to bend to the fact that whoever is vice president can be president.
4:43:13And God damn it, Hague has got to shape up on some of this.
4:43:17He measures up in many respects, but he doesn't measure up in respect to the staff.
4:43:22And that's the biggest part of this damn job, being able to work with people.
4:43:25I don't need to work with people.
4:43:26Is that it?
4:43:29He is a local politician type when it comes to staffing.
4:43:34He staffs himself, it appears to me, with crony type people rather than with people who will either challenge him or who are at his or superior level of intellectual and administrative capability.
4:43:50And he's very buddy-buddy with his staff.
4:43:52He's very buddy-buddy with his Secret Service agents.
4:43:55Yeah.
4:43:57He'll have the agents in for a drink, you know, and they sit around and laugh it up together.
4:44:01And it's a funny combination between that and this sort of arrogance that he also has versus, like, us or something.
4:44:12You know, if I referred to him in a memo as Agnew instead of the Vice President, he'd send half a dozen rejections back.
4:44:32You're set to go.
4:44:32He thinks it's a bad idea.
4:44:37Yeah.
4:44:38Yeah.
4:44:39Yeah.
4:44:51Why don't you give Pat a call?
4:44:53I know we're going to leave at 2.30 and see if she'd like to invite the cops or something.
4:44:58Tell her to get her up and enter the meeting one way or the other and whether they can go if she wants to.
4:45:04Okay.
4:45:05And tell her to proceed on if she wants to.
4:45:07Right.
4:45:08Right.
4:45:09She isn't here today.
4:45:14I don't think this is a good time.
4:45:18It's good.
4:45:18It's good.
4:45:20But I really think we've got to, if this comes out, we've got to stop looking at those staff and just level with them on this stuff.
4:45:35I don't even know what we're going to do.
4:45:37Well, we may break our picks, but I think we ought to try.
4:45:41And frankly, I think you can talk to me on a head-to-head basis.
4:45:48in terms of the presence that's been mentioned.
4:45:50In other words, you've got to do yourself a favor here.
4:45:58Show some bias and show some awareness and, I don't know, this isn't a matter to not, you know,
4:46:26What do you think about this?
4:46:30Now, Connie raised a point with me that I want to discuss with you.
4:46:55I think we ought to evaluate whether we may be pushing the bits too hard and throwing in too much energy now on revenue sharing and the rest, having in mind that this is a long, long battle.
4:47:14And he said, I think that the, he says, your staff people are doing a great job and so forth, but it may be that they're pushing too hard, too hard to get everybody in, put everything out, and so forth and so on.
4:47:31He said, let us find ways to work on these congressmen and senators and so forth and so on.
4:47:37And also, he makes this point, he says, now let's face it,
4:47:41When this gets through, it's going to be compromised.
4:47:43We must never give it away in advance.
4:47:45But it will.
4:47:46But the most important simple objective is that I can dedicate myself so that Peter Black never passes that Congress as an action victory.
4:47:54So he's really thinking straight.
4:47:56Now, the point that I make is I just get through his mind about selling the brand name rather than the product.
4:48:00He said, just sell the brand name.
4:48:01It's got to be in the program.
4:48:03He said, revenue shrinks.
4:48:04I don't care what kind it is.
4:48:05It could be this kind, that kind.
4:48:07I know we make the distinction that we want general or discussion.
4:48:10It's revenue sharing that's the big thing.
4:48:14I want you and...
4:48:24I wouldn't keep him out of sales planning, but into one of your sales tools.
4:48:30Let me tell you though what George did.
4:48:36Colson told me about this.
4:48:39He spoke at the AEI.
4:48:49George Holtz, American Enterprise Institute.
4:48:52They had their board or something for election.
4:48:55George spoke to him, and his whole thing, every point he made, he put in terms of personal characteristics of the president.
4:49:06He took them one at a time and banged them through.
4:49:09The president's
4:49:12Hard work in doing this is what it is.
4:49:14The president's courage in making this did this.
4:49:16The president's deep convictions of concern for people did this.
4:49:21And he did the whole thing that way.
4:49:22And Chuck said it proved so conclusively the point that talking about the meat of a program is ridiculous and talking about the president is what they want.
4:49:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4:49:35I'd like you to read John's speech to the Lincoln Club in L.A. because it's a stupefaction of doing exactly that kind of thing.
4:49:42You've got great acclaim as a result of it.
4:49:45And you were a little concerned beforehand that you had to give a substantive speech instead.
4:49:49I can't explain.
4:49:50I can't say it too often.
4:49:52I can't.
4:49:52But it'll stop us all from asking.
4:49:55Well, Jack's all George used in his speech, and it worked.
4:49:57Now, maybe more than that.
4:49:58Well, thank you.
4:49:59It's out of that question.
4:50:00That's enough.
4:50:05And that wasn't in the speech.
4:50:10There's not sapphires for all of these, but I put it in.
4:50:14But it's the kind of thing that, great sapphire, you can't, none of them ever submitted a speech.
4:50:24Not just personal, it can't be written, but you've got to tell a little story.
4:50:33You've got to tell the little story, then you catch him.
4:50:36You know, it was interesting.
4:50:39I can do the business set about tearing the building down.
4:50:43Oh, did you?
4:50:43But you said, how did you say it?
4:50:44I'm going to tell the story.
4:50:46The whole story.
4:50:47About how you and all this stuff.
4:50:50And about how he went by the other day and said, you know, well, at least we've got one big gun right here.
4:50:56And when I gave that line, I got not only a big laugh, but a big bunch of applause.
4:51:03Because the anecdotes show that you were fighting the bureaucracy, and that you were persevering, and you were backing up your staff, and all of a sudden, there's a good admiral.
4:51:17Yeah, well, I didn't have it quite that way.
4:51:19He made the mistake of going to the Army-Navy game on the Navy train.
4:51:23And he talked about the ranks.
4:51:24At first, commanders and assistant secretaries descended on me, then admirals and undersecretaries.
4:51:32But that looks like, oh, that got a great big hand finally.
4:51:37It's a good story.
4:51:39But it has qualities of the present in it that we have to work harder to get out.
4:51:47Substantively, it's a totally insane thing.
4:51:49It's a total thing.
4:51:49Basically, it was done for Kennedy.
4:51:51Nobody thought about what Kennedy did.
4:51:56and they didn't do a goddamn thing except that the company was in trouble, of course, in that sense.
4:52:04Very true.
4:52:04And Connelly's made this point.
4:52:06That's the whole Connelly line.
4:52:08Connelly's helped talk about the program.
4:52:12He talked about it.
4:52:13That was a meme, though.
4:52:14There's presentations that John makes today.
4:52:17Connelly shouldn't have submitted it.
4:52:19But just enough hateful.
4:52:25This is a great crusade, you know.
4:52:26You have to do American Revolution.
4:52:28The rhetoric, that's what this kind of... mainly these people have got to feel they're in something bigger than themselves, something bigger than just the day-to-day nitty-gritty of fighting this kind of rule.
4:52:41Just don't fight over bills.
4:52:43Pay no attention to them.
4:52:45I have to get over there.
4:52:50Well, we'll get together with Connelly and talk about this.
4:52:53How does that sound to you, sir?
4:52:55It's fine.
4:52:55What do you think we are doing wrong?
4:52:58Well, I don't want to talk about it.
4:53:01I suspect he's right.
4:53:02We have a feeling that we're pressing too hard.
4:53:06We're concerned that this phase, including the first 30 days, I want everybody to connect you and revenue sharing as a household word.
4:53:17Well, and you wanted to miss the story.
4:53:20But you want the feeling to be, and we've done that, you wanted the feeling to be instantly the presence of just pushing the bejesus out of them.
4:53:28Now you don't, you've got to only do enough of that to sustain the momentum.
4:53:33You've got national media attention, and to the extent that the national media has...
4:53:41recognized and carried this.
4:53:43I think we made where we were on that.
4:53:45Why don't you say this?
4:53:46Why don't you have a hand?
4:53:48Well, I'll hand it over.
4:53:49That'll be a chance.
4:53:51All right.
4:53:51There's one.
4:53:52Then we talked about the regional things.
4:53:55And I really think that's the way you cap this phase.
4:53:57You do four issues.
4:53:59Some.
4:54:00I don't know if four is a magic number.
4:54:02Do some.
4:54:03And get out and impact it.
4:54:05The president takes the issues up and down.
4:54:09And then we can pull back off this thing and shift into the congressional phase, where it's head-to-head, it's individual, quick, wild.
4:54:16But you've got to get the citizens' organizations and the grassroots to start mobilizing.
4:54:23But that won't happen.
4:54:25That kind of thing you want to spread out.
4:54:27That's the kind of thing I think Conley's right on, but you've got to be doing the state work.
4:54:32Yeah, because they thought our government was going to do it all.
4:54:34They very well sure did.
4:54:35I saw where some Democrats even traced it.
4:54:38So, we're going to get the counter-reaction out of the labor people and the health and welfare professionals.
4:54:44I don't care.
4:54:44Nicole's not here to assist it.
4:54:47I'll get in there later if you leave.
4:54:48But I've decided that on the labor, we may have to fight.
4:54:54I mean, I'll keep my friendships with them personally.
4:54:59They're getting political assail, but they're going too early, in my opinion.
4:55:03There's an interesting column by Alfred Friendly in the Post this morning about Hedy's problems with labor.
4:55:14And there's a very interesting parallel.
4:55:17And I pushed it all the way through.
4:55:19There's total labor irresponsibility.
4:55:21I know that later a bunch of people are going to figure it out.
4:55:27But what he says, he's losing his resolve.
4:55:29He sees an enormous clash.
4:55:35Subject to the reservation that labor may not be as tough as they're talking, and they may fold in the last hour or so.
4:55:44Well, as you know, it's by a day.
4:55:46That's cold since they're here, but it's hardly wishful thinking.
4:55:49You know what I mean?
4:55:51We're going to give them, by God, that day to speak.
4:55:57It's got to be done.
4:55:58But that's a tactic.
4:56:00That turns out a strategy.
4:56:02It seems to me that there may be a possibility of tying America's and England's problems together as a phenomenon of a phase in the development of, well, before we talk to Colson, what does he make our mind?
4:56:25That's my view.
4:56:27I don't see any way around it.
4:56:27You'll never buy it.
4:56:30We can never give them enough.
4:56:31Their natural instincts are against us.
4:56:34That is for the leaders.
4:56:35Right.
4:56:36Because they say, fight labor union leaders only.
4:56:40All leaders only.
4:56:41Leaders only.
4:56:42And I can see a rapid Roosevelt-type speech where you go on the stump and you say, a little group of narrow locals.
4:56:53self-perpetuating an attack are driving this country to the brink of economic disaster, and I will not permit them to do that.
4:57:00Well, I'm going to do that on a day's stay.
4:57:04I'm going to do that on a day's stay in a low posture way, unless you seem to make it out that you're doing something important.
4:57:12And we've got to take these people on.
4:57:14They are good men.
4:57:15They support our country on foreign policy.
4:57:20do this, they cannot raise your cost of living.
4:57:22Well, then you have to wedge them away from their union members.
4:57:31And they use an excuse, you see, that their members won't permit them to do the right thing.
4:57:36Then we've got to find a way, symbolically, to plate the rank and file so that we don't cut ourselves off from the working man while we're cutting ourselves off from the engine car.
4:57:44If we go to the engine, we need to be able to do all the things that belong to the L-T1s, the glucose line.
4:57:49That's a tough one.
4:57:51That's a real tough one.
4:59:01Well, this gets to the point of why I want to get Herb and his clock out of there.
4:59:51Just like it.
4:59:52Frankly, I can loosen the weight of this thing under your organization.
4:59:54Yeah.
4:59:55Alright, goodbye.
4:59:56Farewell.
4:59:57Good luck.
4:59:58Have a good weekend.
5:00:01You coming back?
5:00:02Am I going on from there?
5:00:03No, I'm going home.
5:00:10Good.
5:00:13You raised the point of how does he spread himself so thin.
5:00:15He does a superb job.
5:00:18of having everything that he has to do, it's the thing I'm trying to do, and I'm trying to watch the way he does it to figure out how to do it.
5:00:26Everything he has to do, every responsibility that John has, is covered by somebody else.
5:00:32So that he, at any given point, never has to do anything.
5:00:36And therefore is able to do what is important to do.
5:00:40And he's got a superb ability, therefore, not to be concerned with the urgent and to work on the important.
5:00:47Because he's got, his divergent is covered by his other people.
5:00:51And we ought to do that.
5:00:54You know I do.
5:00:54Of course.
5:00:56That's what I mean.
5:00:57That's your whole skill.
5:00:58And I think that's a very good point that I never, he's a very confident commentator.
5:01:02Because he's, you know, he saw Johnson running around frenetically about every problem.
5:01:08I've been involved in a little problem, so I can call him, he doesn't like that, but that's important.
5:01:15Or you don't get involved in it.
5:01:16You cover it with one of us and forget about it.
5:01:18Then you let it get done.
5:01:20The tendency is to get done, which I've done too much.
5:01:24Like when the Ed Morgan thing isn't rolling, I start calling everybody in and doing something about it.
5:01:28That's the wrong thing to do.
5:01:30You've got to make the other people responsible and make them do it.
5:01:34And John does.
5:01:36You've got to be prepared to have a lot of things slip across now and then when you do it.
5:01:41Because it's inevitable.
5:01:42People just don't get everything done and done right.
5:01:45But it's still a better way to do it.
5:01:57Who's Dizzy Rose in here?
5:02:14Mark Call is your new sponsor, but actually he wants to spend the rest of her life.
5:02:23Oh, I won't answer the first question.
5:02:24Let's just not give her a close.
5:02:27What criticisms of her have brought you the most trouble?
5:02:30Oh, that she's, uh, oh, the idea of, uh, that, well, the idea that she's basically a square.
5:02:43And to be true, that they criticize her for being, they criticize her because she has to have the virtues that are no longer actionable.
5:02:57Happens to have.
5:03:00That is an orphan at an early age, worked her way through school, great character, determination.
5:03:13But the impression of her being sort of a fellow plotting, both have drawn, it is essentially the opposite, actually, in terms of, if they were getting very looking in terms, it's true that she doesn't, she,
5:03:41doesn't make a fool of herself in public.
5:03:43For example, her refusal to make a fool of herself in public.
5:03:49But this sort of thing is a, your impeccable conduct abroad and at home in very difficult circumstances really is something that is indispensable in the first place.
5:04:13And also the indication, because her conduct is impeccable, that she doesn't have war.
5:04:19Okay, terrible.
5:04:20For her sake, you wish, for her sake, you wish, you hadn't run into politics.
5:04:24What's a terrible moment?
5:04:24For her sake, you wish, you hadn't run into politics.
5:04:31Oh, a question.
5:04:33Well, they actually deserve it.
5:04:36They give you one.
5:04:37It's very much harder for a woman.
5:04:41I've always said this.
5:04:47because the men have been in battle.
5:04:49The wives have been suffering on the sidelines.
5:04:58And also, a woman comes to duty and is released more legally.
5:05:02I mean, but the Constitution has been defeated.
5:05:05There's days it becomes harder because of a high ideal.
5:05:09Thank you very much.
5:05:12Great idealism and so forth.
5:05:21of our two daughters, and they shoved the defeats of my two adoption defeats much harder than I did.
5:05:29Because once a woman becomes committed, she's much more loyal than a man.
5:05:35I love that.
5:05:36Much more loyal than a man.
5:05:39Men are, men tend, in politics and in life, to be, uh, to be less, uh,
5:05:58Whereas, once a woman believes, she intends to believe in a cause or a man.
5:06:16And also, a woman takes much harder the criticisms of her husband, the wife does, than he does.
5:06:26that criticisms do not bother me.
5:06:28I just consider it, I consider it part of the, I don't know, I have the word, I have the most unfriendly impression, any impression in history, or something, or an impression that has never bothered me for one moment.
5:06:48But it usually, of course, bothers me.
5:07:00because they see it in personal terms.
5:07:06Whereas I see it, I mean, to me, I see the press totally in personal terms.
5:07:30Hold off, please.
5:07:31This little one.
5:07:36That's the one I'm using, which I've always used.
5:07:39Secretary, you've got it out there.
5:07:41Yep.
5:07:42This person is not a victor.
5:07:44His family has a general friend who has multiple sclerosis.
5:07:49His name is David Shriver, who's cousin of Sergeant Shriver.
5:07:53Originally, I was conducting a mine, too.
5:07:55I just thought you'd hate, perhaps, my claim to anything.
5:08:07He's just running him through on the tours.
5:08:09He doesn't know about it.
5:08:12Uh, they, I mean, right away, we just have to meet for a minute.
5:08:18Stay where you are, John.
5:08:19Bye.
5:08:19Just running him through.
5:08:40I think the idea is that once you've got a good story, you talk to the President, and the President of the United States never insists, and it's not him, but it's not him.
5:08:56All of his life, he just never stood on the protocol.
5:08:58He takes it to the mark.
5:09:00The mark of a big man.
5:09:03He's just willing to talk.
5:09:13And he's very impressive.
5:09:15When members of his cabinet or a congressman or senator will pass, we'll talk directly to him.
5:09:27Well, come right in here.
5:09:29Can I ask a question?
5:09:30Yes, how are you?
5:09:31Nice to see you.
5:09:31Well, let me see.
5:09:32This is me, Bob.
5:09:33Well, how are you?
5:09:34Nice to meet you.
5:09:35Nice to meet you.
5:09:40That's good to see you.
5:09:42Let's go over here and get a picture.
5:09:46Come on over here.
5:09:49You stay there.
5:09:54She doesn't get on this side.
5:09:59There she goes.
5:10:06Look out there, T-Bone.
5:10:07It's just a lab.
5:10:09Okay.
5:10:18They're showing me all the stuff.
5:10:20Give me presents.
5:10:21You get compliments for this.
5:10:25I can't do it.
5:10:26They want to hear the voice of the DJs.
5:10:30They want to follow it.
5:10:31You get one of those.
5:10:32You have one.
5:10:34You don't.
5:10:36It doesn't matter who you get it from.
5:10:45Thank you, sir.
5:10:47Thank you very much.
5:10:50Thank you.
5:11:18Who do you give this call to?
5:11:19No, no, see that's the reason I don't give it anymore.
5:11:22One of the things we're talking about doing is we've got this guy, remember Van Shumway from California?
5:11:30We've got him in now, and he's doing a hell of a good job at planning stuff.
5:11:34But what we're going to do is get another, this is the thing we've been talking about, is getting another...
5:11:41Chuck feels we've got to get four more, but we'll walk before we run.
5:11:45And I think the next guy, if we can do it, ought to be a TV guy, or a guy that at least has ties to TV, but they can plant that kind of stuff.
5:11:56A guy that...
5:11:58Now, we've got already, of course, a lot of people who can and do do that, and you can't just use...
5:12:04But they want to be organized.
5:12:06So if you've got to talk, you've got to be impressible about it and say, believe us out.
5:12:09That's exactly right.
5:12:11Or what you have to do is say, here's the line you have, and here's what we want to know.
5:12:15This line, talking to secretaries, is a very, very important line.
5:12:19I've always done it all my life.
5:12:21And also, it will shape up some of the goddamn...
5:12:24I come over here, and when I ask what time of day, they want to talk to me.
5:12:27But it's also a dandy insight into the man, which is... And I've done it all my life.
5:12:31I have never been seduced.
5:12:32Whenever I call a man, I've talked to secretaries all over this country.
5:12:35When I was a congressman, I called the congressman in law and talked to your secretary, and I gave her a message.
5:12:41She got to know where to talk to the man.
5:12:44Where is AA or whoever else?
5:12:46It's conceit when an individual insists on talking to the top man.
5:12:52I think it's the ultimate conceit put at that for an individual to insist, to insist on talking to the, about talking only to his opposite number or the top man when he can, just as well, accomplish the integrity by talking to him in the trenches.
5:13:13And I also show respect for the Secretary of the Ministry of Assistant
5:13:24That the people that are most impressed with me, that I know are the mother of life, are those, interestingly enough, that are willing to talk to my secretary.
5:13:31That's why he's so important to me.
5:13:34That's the promise.
5:13:34And I feel sure of that.
5:13:35And I'm glad you feel that.
5:13:39Is it live?
5:13:40Is it in frame?
5:13:40Yes, sir.
5:13:41Very good.
5:13:42Awesome.
5:13:42Good to see you.
5:13:53We were talking about the Vice President's thing, and I think you're right.
5:13:57But we've got to get another man in there, Bob, and I don't know, or either that, I don't know how to do it, but we've got to get somebody.
5:14:09Who else was with him in the campaign?
5:14:18Well, one thing John and I talked about is that we can, I think,
5:14:22And somebody else agrees that we can get some substantial help from Harlow in dealing with him, because he's got a rapport from the outside.
5:14:31Bryce can be very helpful when we're starting on it.
5:14:34Bring Bryce to see me Monday, and you and Bryce and I will talk about this problem.
5:14:42and say, now, Bryce, would you work it out?
5:14:46Because really what is involved here is the vice president's survival.
5:14:50Yeah, it is.
5:14:50He either is going to start to shake up, or I can't use it.
5:14:53I can't use it.
5:14:55Well, the other thing is, John and I have got to do it.
5:14:57And we were going to do it this afternoon.
5:14:59I think John and I have got to do it.
5:15:02We've got to double team it.
5:15:03But it's for the two of us to see him without his staff and basically level with him.
5:15:18Hit from the embassy in, in, uh, in the attack from our, from our embassy here, the one that sat in the American side when I met with Colombo, I've seen him in Italy.
5:15:33It's very impressive.
5:15:34Is he at DCM?
5:15:36He's not at DCM.
5:15:38I don't see him to help.
5:15:39This is a bright young guy with sort of big teeth and all the rest.
5:15:44Big horse face, but just very, very upbeat.
5:15:47Very impressed by him.
5:15:48I'd like to find out what other languages he knows, for one thing.
5:15:51He sat in with you?
5:15:53He sat in.
5:15:53He sat in as the translator running that Colombo.
5:15:57And Colombo had his translator.
5:15:59I'd like to run it down.
5:16:00Who is he?
5:16:01What is he doing?
5:16:02And so forth.
5:16:02And basically what I mean is he seems to have the right chemistry.
5:16:06He's got enthusiasm.
5:16:08And Frankie is a hell of a translator.
5:16:11You know, I can use him a little bit.
5:16:13Well, I noticed he didn't take a note.
5:16:16So he apparently is one of these who has a photographic memory type of thing.
5:16:26Who was in charge of that?
5:16:29I hate to know who it is.
5:16:40Henry, I would like to talk to Hague.
5:16:42I want to get a, something, a line on a guy that he sent in here the other day.
5:16:45Is he there?
5:16:45Yeah, yeah, I won't bother you with it.
5:16:50I'll be fine, I'm sorry.
5:16:58Good.
5:16:58I hate him for having me on if I can't go home.
5:17:10Who was the translator that signed with me in the Colombo visit?
5:17:16Was he a State Department fellow?
5:17:19I noticed he'd been in Italy.
5:17:20Is he in the embassy in Italy or is he in the embassy here?
5:17:27I'd like for you to run him down, see who he is, what languages he knows, what his background is, left, right, and so forth.
5:17:34He's very impressive, and he didn't take a note, and he had the mental conversation to see if he did a good job.
5:17:41And get me around, I'm telling everybody, this guy, I didn't want to bother anyone, I understand the world perfectly.
5:17:47This guy at ABM Property, he looks to me like a young Walters.
5:17:52Yeah, did you meet him or talk to him yourself?
5:17:55Sort of a big-bore space gallery, I think.
5:17:57Yeah, but a very pleasant one.
5:17:59Just a minute.
5:18:06Heading to that valet there for 20 minutes?
5:18:08Okay, I'm done.
5:18:09At the end of the day, the department is funding you, sir.
5:18:16Now, I'd like to do something else.
5:18:19I'd like to use Blair House.
5:18:20That's not the State Department's house, isn't it?
5:18:23Doesn't that belong to us?
5:18:27When we bring entertainers in like Jackie Gleason, I'd like for him to stay at Blair House.
5:18:32And I'd like Bob Hope to stay at Blair House.
5:18:34And I think we can do it again.
5:18:35You already invited Bob Hope to stay at Galena.
5:18:37Well, Bob can stay with us, but I don't want Gleason with us, you know, because he'll stay up all night, I don't know.
5:18:44Jesus Christ, I can't stand it.
5:18:45But I think having Bob, having him over at Blair House would be great.
5:18:48Early in the evenings at the White House, let's use Blair House and have him stay at Blair House.
5:18:53Don't you think it's a good idea?
5:18:54Yes, sir.
5:18:55And there's a big old staff over there, and they're going to press out, you know, this is the White House, and they're going to run right across the street.
5:19:05And they can bring their, you know, three or four of their staff and be able to feed them.
5:19:09So if you arrange that.
5:19:10Yeah, Nick really runs that.
5:19:11Yeah, I really love it.
5:29:46Well, we've got the other thing going, which is another interesting asset, which is Chapman's French, the guy he refers to as Chapman's French, who he's got back working.
5:30:01I can't remember his name.
5:30:02He's a Jewish columnist.
5:30:04We used him in the campaign.
5:30:05He did a hell of a job for us.
5:30:06He traveled the country and reported everything.
5:30:09He used the code name of Chapman's friend, which he would use.
5:30:15He's back writing a column for some obscure New Hampshire baby.
5:30:18Yes, that's it.
5:30:21Well, he'll say anything we want in the column, for one thing.
5:30:24He also attends all of Muskie's things, and he'll ask any questions we want to ask, you know, or anybody else's for that matter.
5:30:31Do anything we want.
5:30:32He comes in with some interesting kind of poop.
5:30:34He's the guy that gave us all the stuff I told you about the headquarters set up and who was in what office.
5:30:42We also have a study that...
5:30:45They don't know, but they think so.
5:30:51They think they do, yes.
5:31:01Do you think maybe the teddy is gone?
5:31:03I mean, Muskie is certainly capable of it.
5:31:08It is just the latest addition.
5:31:11The latest addition has been all through Kennedy's office.
5:31:18I do know that two of Kennedy's staff people have told third persons that they thought Muskie was behind it.
5:31:29There's some people in the federal was demoted because of the jurors.
5:31:34Yeah, certainly.
5:31:34Ah, it's a shame.
5:31:35It's literally not as much trouble as they used to.
5:31:38No.
5:46:55Before you take off, let me put a V in your bonnet for a minute, I think, and I understand it's up in the curtain, but the TV does.
5:46:58It's drawn from the front of your voice.
5:46:59I agree.
5:46:59It's beautiful.
5:46:59It's awesome.
5:46:59Our recommendation is to not do a television thing.
5:47:01I'm not going to say it's the world's worst.
5:47:02It's the world's worst.
5:47:02I strongly feel that you should not use up your prime time energy to go on, because something has no reason.
5:47:04And, uh...
5:47:26Well, they point out that there are a lot of options and other things you can do.
5:47:31For instance, you can sign a message to Congress for pictures on Thursday morning.
5:47:36And then, if they get the most, the thing that you get the most out of it is that at the conclusion of that, you can say to the press, we're in for the signing.
5:47:45You may have some questions regarding this message.
5:47:48I'll be in the press room in 15 minutes to take your questions.
5:47:51Go into the press room.
5:47:54on camera with microphones.
5:47:59Take some foreign policy questions for business, sir.
5:48:10See, they will have given the thing out on Tuesday.
5:48:13First of all, they're briefed on the report.
5:48:17This is your brief on Wednesday and with State Defense.
5:48:22Uh, they don't want us to use crackdown programs.
5:48:26It's recent.
5:48:27It's presently used.
5:48:28We're not going to get selected.
5:48:30If you want to announce a decision together, or if you want to hold a press conference, or if you want to announce a new government, if you want to really argue on the side, on the right, on the left side, on the right side, on the left side, on the left side,
5:48:46That's the real problem.
5:48:51Now, the other thing you could do is you could also read
5:49:01for a camera, a 10 minute summary of the thing or something like that, which could get us to do it.
5:49:08We might get five on this.
5:49:13We've got a little more stuff.
5:49:16Other options would be to hold a live television press conference.
5:49:21Go on for a press conference, which was our original plan anyway.
5:49:29Or also a
5:49:30whether the foreign policy and the foreign policy report.
5:49:38Do you discuss it?
5:49:40No.
5:49:40No, but I don't think your decision should be based on one hand or the other.
5:49:46Oh, you know, I...
5:49:47I don't...
5:49:48I mean, I would like for you to do that for our... We do discuss it with Henry and Sapphire.
5:49:57Say hello.
5:50:30You know, you can read the state and district radio and let them carry it live.
5:50:33How about a live radio broadcast?
5:50:35At noon, something like that.
5:50:37We've done that before.
5:50:41Or how about a live TV broadcast?
5:50:47You're validating the crime, aren't you?
5:50:51You're good.
5:50:52You've got more.
5:50:59We're going to do the whole thing live.
5:51:01We're going to do the whole thing live in the middle of the day.
5:51:05And that night, they picked up.
5:51:06And if you don't have questions, then you just have the president.
5:51:11Why don't we do it live in the middle of the day?
5:51:13That's what we're going to do.
5:51:15How about that?
5:51:16See, there's lives up here.
5:51:20That's strange.
5:51:21Is that at least what we're going to do today?
5:51:24We're going to do it live.
5:51:26That's going to be
5:51:38I feel better.
5:51:39I think it's really taught the audience that there's questions.
5:51:44What do you want to get the audience with this kind of thing?
5:51:50I think it's taught the audience that there's questions.
5:51:53I think it's taught the audience that there's questions.
5:53:39All right.
5:54:05I think he's doing something.
5:54:07I'm not sure.
5:54:08I'm not sure if he's going for radio.
5:54:12Radio at night.
5:54:14Oh, radio at night.
5:54:15So that it rides all day through the traffic.
5:54:17Our radio can get a bigger audience if you do it at night because we play it.
5:54:24Oh, good.
5:54:45No, you saw that.
5:55:14I just wanted to ask you a second thing.
5:55:16I'm going to ask you a question.
5:55:18It's like a question.
5:55:19It's like a question.
5:56:01But you agree.
5:56:02How do you feel about this?
5:56:03You know, I never tell people.
5:56:06I just want to be able to write back and read back.
5:56:10When I go on television, I actually need to be on a follow-up press conference.
5:56:14But I don't need to be on the foreign policy report.
5:56:19I can do it.
5:56:20I can get ready to do a foreign policy talk with the press conference.
5:56:28That's the foreign policy.
5:56:30The press congress will overwrite the report.
5:56:57Our aim this year is to get this very lawful report, lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful
5:57:25I think it's good, it's good.
5:57:27I don't want to see it lose my mind.
5:57:48We're going to have to decide.
5:57:50But what I need is I can have an office press conference this week on domestic policy on Friday.
5:57:55And we're going to think about this foreign policy.
5:57:59So we have a domestic thing and then do a foreign policy television thing next week.
5:58:07We're going to do the office thing.
5:58:08But that's out of the office.
5:58:10It's out of the world.
5:58:12It's part of the domestic policy.
5:58:14So we're going to write both of these this week.
5:58:36All right, that's my argument.
5:58:38But I don't think, I just don't think there's enough oxygen.
5:58:47When you go on nighttime television, there's got to be a reason for it.
5:58:54There's got to be oxygen.
5:58:58Oxygen.
5:59:10If you did, I'd do it on Wednesday rather than on Friday, rather than when four calls were on Thursday.
5:59:24Thursday's a better day than Monday.
5:59:39It's a better day, so there's rides more through the weekend rather than through the weekend.
5:59:51That's what we can do.
5:59:52Gentlemen, they're messing with the governor and all that crap.
5:59:55If you guys are tight, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
5:59:58I don't think we should deal with those kind of things.
6:00:04These are more policy things out there, which they've done the following week.
6:00:07We'll be right back next week.
6:00:10But then I'd go on, I'd do it on 8th and 8th.
6:00:12I'd get a, oh, I'd press on the tip of the stand setter so that you could do a lot of time.
6:00:32We ought to be on TV.
6:00:34Yeah, we ought to be on again.
6:00:36We're on quite a bit.
6:00:39On the news.
6:00:40Yeah, we're on the news.
6:00:42We're all on the news.
6:00:49But on the other hand, the use of the office press conference is very, very good.
6:00:54I didn't knock one of those off.
6:00:56You can use a lot of the crappy agendas before going on.
6:00:59It ain't televised.
6:01:00You see, I'm fine.
6:01:01I think there's something to be said for doing the domestic press conference this week.
6:01:09Here, I mean, in the office.
6:01:10And the audience are in the room.
6:01:10Five o'clock in the morning.
6:01:11See this?
6:01:1110 o'clock.
6:01:11On Thursday.
6:01:12How does that sound?
6:01:12Thursday.
6:01:12We're doing one a week.
6:01:13Why are you doing one a week?
6:01:14Oh, no, no, no, no.
6:01:14We didn't do it last week.
6:01:15That was last week.
6:01:15Last week.
6:01:34Oh, wait a second.
6:01:35Wait a second.
6:01:47I just don't think you can do one.
6:01:50And I'd say, well, get the governors in the early part of the state of the world, the latter part of the state, and go, in other words, go for a TV press conference.
6:01:59I think that's the thing to do.
6:02:02But how about making the TV press conference possible?
6:02:06I just think there's something to be said to say that, um, rather than want people who we can't test them to speak to them next week, I'm going to do a press conference on the border policy.
6:02:21I'm going to investigate it.
6:02:24We're going to get rid of it.
6:02:26There's so much out there.
6:02:27I'm not going to do it too much.
6:02:29I'm going to do it.
6:02:43But if you would talk to the American Sapphire and say
6:03:09That sounds pretty good to me.
6:03:14Alright.

Nixon, Haldeman & Flanigan on Presidential Appointments and Economic Policy

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Also recorded on February 20, 1971

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