On February 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Peter M. Flanigan, Manolo Sanchez, White House operator, Alexander P. Butterfield, Robert C. Tyson, William P. Rogers, Henry A. Kissinger, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Rose Mary Woods, John D. Ehrlichman, John C. Whitaker, Elizabeth Bradley Whitaker, David Shriver, White House photographer, Charles W. Colson, and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:58 am to 2:42 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 454-009 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
There are the questions that Gallaudet likes to see on campus tonight.
What sex did any person call saying, you don't already have a wife?
What criticisms have you heard about her?
I have to go out there to Boston.
I have a lot of things I want to do in Boston.
I want to work on the airspace.
I need to get it done.
The advantage of it for a bust is simply that you can spy in the State Department.
I think you may have raised some of the...the...the blind, I mean, if you go over there, they would let you be a spy.
And, uh, I don't know who else you can get to be a spy.
We sure as hell haven't got anybody to look at right now.
The other advantage of your going is that the state is known to really try to throw its weight around on this whole economic thing.
And whether it falls or they go in and out of the truck, and whether it falls and fails or succeeds, those are kind of the great people on the state.
You know, they get their fingers in every damn pie, and so there's the oil committee,
about anything and just screw it up hugely.
If you could handle that.
The problem there is whether or not in that bureaucracy they let you being the outsider and just putting the right hand there.
So, I agree with the conclusion that it would be best for you to stay here.
From our standpoint, I think you can handle, in other words, continue to handle all that kind of problem from this area.
It's got a lot of very major problems to solve.
What do we really do about the foreign investment?
The trouble is, every time we come up against one of these, the State Department ends up on the side of a foreign country.
So the reason that I even considered it when Roger Tracer...
way back before it was on the side of the United States.
Yes, sir.
It's as cold as that.
Now, the other possibility is this.
Actually, I think that it enhances you over there.
Is that a possibility?
If you had somebody else you could put over there, we could control it.
That's what we need.
I mean, Samuels is a pleasant
He's smart, but he doesn't know anything about practical politics.
That's right.
That's right.
I like him.
I've been very impressed by him.
He's very heavy.
Well, I think, you know, what Bill wants is an infighter.
He needs somebody to fight the battles over there in that bureaucracy.
When he lost this battle here on this international financial policy...
Or he wants, then he says, well, the way I get back is get somebody who's got some in with the White House.
And I understand what he's trying to do.
Whoever goes over there, he can certainly approach the financial, international financial things on them.
in a way that's more helpful to us.
But I don't really think he'll, from that point, he's ever going to get into the guts of the State Department in the other areas.
I think that Irwin and Rogers and Alex Johnson will have Fox.
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
But I think that who might go over there first is Matt.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I told George, and I hope he told you, that
If you wanted to do it, whatever you want, whatever you want.
We had the only time we really had a man in the State Department who was on, well, at the highest level, was sort of a rejecter.
And, you know, of course, Dallas is, you know, as far as I think that's, I mean, you're trying to disband this.
So, you know, I'm going to be wrong.
See, there's no way.
I'm telling you, it was good.
Oh, yeah, I'll tell you.
It was.
I don't know, I have mixed emotions about it.
I don't know, you might go over and then come back.
I really think that the opportunity I have, Jack Irwin, is very important.
I don't know if he's ever going to hear about it.
He's persistent, but not very strong.
Lifting.
Right, lifting.
I mean, he had, frankly, he had, Bill really wants you because you've got some balls, and I think he knows you can win fights.
And those people that have got balls, you can't tell which they are.
That's true.
Isn't it awful?
Well, they invite for themselves all the time.
They're just fighting each other all the time, and all these petty little things where he said at the table, and what meetings, and what messages, clearly with what, and they don't want any more about that, or in their margins.
You also have to say that when they put forward a position, they have probably researched it better than any other department in the government.
No question about it.
They're much better than us.
W and HUD and all the rest of them.
Of course.
Well, at least we're getting an accomplishment.
Jim Lynn, who you may not know.
Well, I know he's very good.
We're getting good.
Morris, I think, is famous.
He's right.
But Lennon, I think, is great.
He's got a great job.
Yes?
Yeah.
He is good.
I don't know.
I must say this is a terribly important area.
This is Bob and I talked a little about it.
I didn't raise it with you because I don't do it.
I'm giving you the code.
You have to pick something and see what you want to do.
You could be all invaluable there.
The other thing is that we first need to hear in terms of not just this foreign economic stuff, but all this other stuff that we're going to have a lot of people.
The Ash Council report apparently is the only way to do it because that not only allows you to appoint the fellow, he's your guy.
He's the only guy there.
He doesn't have to fight with the Mary Gardner job.
Oh, yes.
There's no way to change that.
I'll tell you the business community would jump up with joy.
That's the only thing we'd get with on that one thing.
Well, you'd scare them some.
You'd scare them with that.
Assholes, I think they can control the president's.
I remember the advantage of that is that that is the place where you can move directly into the cabinet position.
That's the natural.
all these environmentalists on that alaska pipeline the rest he shouldn't indicate in advance if he makes us not work today i don't know what's worth the dam we're not waiting to be
Mr. President, we've clearly got to get that oil out of there.
The right way to get the oil out, and I think it's a pipeline through Canada.
Oh, I think this is wrong.
We're going to have to start to know this.
I think Rock is saying things that satisfy the press.
I want him to say things that satisfy us.
I love him.
Get that one filled for me.
I'll use that one.
Yes, sir.
We can't get it.
Because if we do, we'll lose the state of Alaska forever.
We have 11 of them.
Oh, they're dying for it.
Because of the job.
Because the road is not through the middle of the state now.
So we have to stay away from them.
We have some help.
Martin is losing the state prayer right now.
I just said, he said we want to be behind the firemen.
Fire?
No.
Good God!
That is not a good reason.
It's like saying, you know, SSP, you've got to be on fire.
That is not a good reason.
Can I have it then?
I'm so sick of the confident environment, I could die.
Well, let's see, who was it, Bill White, somebody today, didn't they?
Well, part of the thing is the environmentalist is being purely a...
The truth of the matter is we're going to have both pipelines in time.
It's a question of which comes first, the one down to Valdez or the one down through Canada.
But the Canadians are now pushing the one through Canada.
In your case, frankly, I'm safe.
My real feeling, Madam President, I'll do whatever you want me to do.
I'll get you to do everything.
I think I'd get over there and be on a side track with all the things that you're worried about and that Henry's worried about going down the main track and not being able to do anything about it.
And in the economic thing, where of course it's important, the real action there is going to be handled by Peterson.
And should be.
It's got to be out of state.
I could be helpful, but I don't.
That Shakespeare's man out there, he's done enough for him.
I quite agree.
The guy's a disaster.
What was his name?
Branson.
Kenneth Branson.
Branson.
From Texas?
Yeah.
Why is he a disaster?
Because he just hasn't, according to the State Department, according to McComber, I reviewed all of our people and they've been... McComber's a good man.
That's right.
He says that this fellow just hasn't caught on, he doesn't know what he's doing, and he's completely inept at the job.
the number one guy they think has been a disaster, and they've been very, very flattering about most of the others.
Probably the right kind of a guy to those people.
I think he'd be all right.
Now, White, you know, really, he's in a long way away.
I wrestled with them a long time ago.
I don't know if I stay out there.
But that's where they leave from, is all of us.
They went down to our plans, and they go either to Auburn or to St. Louis.
And I'd love to see those pilots, you know, if they fly out there, or they don't go to the city, or come back, or if they're ready to get rid of you.
Yes, sir.
He's still on the go.
I think if a fella doesn't measure up, he's been given his chance.
That's what he was after his $100,000.
C.I.A.
man, I'm a U.S.A. man, I'm out of here.
Shakespeare.
Shakespeare?
God will.
I've been having a little trouble with Shakespeare because of your friend and mine, John Shaheen.
It's all taken care of.
He finally agreed.
Not today.
Right letter was withdrawn.
Clark McGregor made the call.
And then word was made to him.
To Shaheen.
Spend now and the moment of the last one.
I thought that part of it surprised me enough is not the problem because that's a purely technical question.
My responsibility is the president's relations with the Congress.
And I have to tell you that you're jeopardizing his relations with the Congress if you put this up there.
If we put this up there.
And I just don't want to.
And he said this has been unanimously checked here.
I'm afraid we've got trouble with Bill Casey, too.
I'm afraid Bill has been too much in swinging kind of financial deals.
I don't know, Mr. President.
We asked him.
Specifically.
That's the amazing thing.
He says on this lawsuit that he says he forgot about it.
Well, he might have, but there's just so many other things.
What do we do with drug nominations?
He can get out of them.
Oh, well, he'll, I think if we want him to, he'll withdraw.
He won't get sick.
That's right.
He'll be unhappy, but I think he'll do it.
Here we go.
But that's his fault.
I really do.
I'm on both these guys.
But once you get down to that, I still like, I still think that we're missing that being on some of the former chief executive officers.
Now, for example, Bert Cross is retiring.
He's headed the 3M.
He's a friend of mine.
Yes.
I don't know a moment.
Oh, you bet.
Right.
Yes.
See, that's kind of, one of those guys, they just go through life and they do a hell of a job for five years.
Sure, they're 65 years of age, but full of memes.
They've got it, they've really got it.
And they know how, you know, they're politicians.
I know you love to do it.
We've got a great job to offer to one of those fellas.
Great job.
He only has to be a good, tough negotiator.
I hate these names.
Who do you pass them on to?
He's got another style.
Okay, well, I bet you don't need this.
I don't understand this.
We have a good job for somebody who's smart but doesn't want a full-time job.
It's six weeks in Geneva at the World Radio Conference.
He's a full ambassador.
It takes a couple of weeks at either end.
He negotiates for that period of time.
Joe McConnell did it last time.
Don't have to know anything about the radio.
He's got to be a tough negotiator.
He's got to be a good friend.
He really wants something.
Look, now let's check this one out.
This don't have food as old, Joe, and all.
Let's really get through the names of the 100 top people who would like to, you know, be buttered up for something.
Somebody wants to be asked to do something.
I was shocked the other day at Barnard Earl, but I can't think of anything.
I've been in the White House since we've been here.
That is awful.
That is awful.
It's terrible.
Remember, in the 60s, you can do a great job.
And Earl has these scandalous, abolished something wrong with our system.
We miss a man like him, really.
What was it that he wasn't acting in 68?
Yeah.
And so he doesn't come in on the outside list.
He should go up on Rosen's list because, you know, he tells you he worked in the old Frank Coles, right?
And he's McCarthy.
Jesus Christ.
Well, guess what?
There's a guy that we, I guess he's 70 now, but what a guy.
Good fellow.
What a great guy.
The other name you had on there was Texarn, who is...
If you want to do something for Tonya, he'd be fine.
Just great at it.
I have thought of Bill Marion.
But he does require a bid for Bill.
Well, Bill wants something.
You know, fringe stuff.
We've done a lot.
I'm trying to marry him.
That's one way to get him off our chaos.
But I can't get him out of the way.
I'm trying to get him out of here altogether.
Yet he's such a bore.
He's a great public.
So give him the job.
He's a good negotiator.
Mary, I don't know.
I don't... Mary, over to you.
Bill just saw this.
As between Barton and Mary, there's no connection as to who'd be best.
Bob Tyson would be great at it.
Bob Tyson would be great at this job going over there as ambassador.
Is he?
I get the feeling that he's ready to get out of the business path.
And he'd like to do something.
He's only 58 or 59.
He's in that age bracket.
He's in that age bracket.
He'd be looking for someone to take that annual spot.
How Christchurch City could be great in that job.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
That's the kind of thing I would do.
I think that's good.
Not a thing.
Not a thing.
You get all that kind of technical support.
And Earl Blake, I just want to invite him to just put on some commission.
In one of your things, high-level things.
Not a permanent thing, but he's just sort of honored
I'm sorry.
I'm good.
I'm going to leave that.
I want you to be involved in another change.
Thank you.
Roy Hatch is here to talk to him and see whether or not he makes a good take to this Undersecretary for Economic Affairs.
Say hello to John.
Is it under?
It's not now.
It's not a race.
It will, it is.
It will.
The understanding would be, we'll put it like a selection of the race, but the understanding would be while he's Assistant Secretary, the rocker would immediately treat him as an Undersecretary.
He's a deputy under at the moment.
But for our purposes, he's undersecretary.
He'd be here, and I would insist that he be at all those meetings that we have with the leaders of the committee and everything.
We've got a view of a business standing on that, too, see?
He'd be great at that.
He'd totally outweigh it, wouldn't he?
Oh, he'd be all right.
He'd see it from all points of view.
Then you see you've got a guy that also could go to Canada, right?
You like to have people at that level around.
It's actually a hell of a good, uh, financial transportation hub.
And with the conference, the Tate conference is great.
I have to say, Mr. President, that I was appalled when it was first announced and I am just as far on the other side now.
He is superb.
The way he handled that 130 businessmen that night, he said, I'm not going to preach to you.
And of course, he was just preaching like Billy Graham.
And they were talking to each other and saying, yeah, that's the way we do it.
It was great.
what he did to the New York Times when they thought they had him.
Just put it right back.
Put it right back.
He is superb.
You see, Pete, we need in the cabin, frankly, we need a couple of other guys who are potential presidents.
Yes, sir, but we need some salesmen.
That's even more now.
That's what a presidential president is.
That's right.
He's got great work.
Sure.
There is a man that I don't think is going to find work.
When you look at our political team, like Bowlby and Romney, they're fairly good salesmen, but they're not really consented to be heavy.
That's right.
We're talking cans of fuel.
On the other hand...
I think with his colleagues, I think he does that job exceedingly well.
They're all deceitful.
That's right.
You know, there was a fellow, the past chairman of... Mr. Robert Tyson of the United States Steel Company, New York, please.
I've asked him to talk to me.
Very important.
I think Ed got this study.
Yeah, he's good.
Good.
There was a... the past chairman of General Motors was in here the other day and he said that he had heard that... Did you get another...
The other one was sent out to be repaired also, Mr. President.
Yes, sir.
and they're so good that they have their very own.
Well, you have a very thin point on that fine point.
They make a broader point than the Senate.
They make a broader point.
I've got to go back and get my French can and get out of here soon.
I've got some of those French cans.
Mr. President, the one I've enjoyed in one way or another is that every subject I've had has been here with one exception.
They've all got silver lining except for consumers, and that is without a doubt.
They've given her to me.
But we have a problem.
Sorry to put this to you, and I'm sure you don't want to leave a long memory.
The question is...
We have to have a product safety.
We have to have legislation on this subject.
We're gonna be rolled on it.
And I've taken the position that rather than trying to outdo the Congress, because we're never gonna get credit for it anyway, we'll be responsible.
The business community is not going to castigate us for what we put up.
We'll be able to come up with what we say is a good program.
But one of the elements of it is consumer product safety.
We've got to have some legislation to try and assure that the design of lawnmowers and all that kind of thing is safe.
The question is, who runs it?
Most of it is currently run in HEW.
Maury wants it run in his shop.
OMB thinks it ought to be an HEW.
They would take it in Congress.
While I have great concern about the inside of HEW, I think the logic is HEW.
The point is, it's all crap in any event.
We're not going to win on it.
If you put it in Congress, we're dead ducks.
We're putting it in.
We're frankly having, it's like having the judge investigate himself.
Right.
Sorry.
But under that, in ACW, but with the bill, not to be a punitive bill, with a lot of pre-market clearance and all that kind of business, would you knock that out of the environment, Bill?
Hell yes, Bill.
All right.
We'll go on.
Yeah, that way, Archer Burns is, and we're going to take a little time, I'm going to let that get caught in one, but we're going to have to trim the sails a little.
Archer Burns.
There we go.
I was on this visit, Martin comes in, and he, you know, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow, mow.
First thing, well, the forecast, well, if you read it carefully, it's all right.
But he's smart enough to know what the pressure's going to pick up.
And it puts him against us.
However, he says the problem is not money, it's confidence.
And the moment he says that, it's reckless.
People interpret it that he lacks confidence.
What is confidence?
God damn him.
What do you think?
I think it's inexcusable.
I think that he could have been up there saying the same thing that we were saying.
That's right.
I didn't know if you looked at what he said because the Star Wars night had exactly the opposite headline.
No, I did not read the Star Wars story.
The Star Wars story is a new record.
It's a new record.
How are you feeling?
Great, great.
Oh, and you know, I'm like you, even the more the pressure, the harder the job we get.
I always say to my friends that tighten up our junk guys.
Remember what we used to do a little politics?
Bob, I have something I'd like to have you discuss with Pete Flanagan if I want to raise it with you myself first.
which has to be conducted in Geneva.
It'll take a couple of months, and we don't want to go through the State Department because those people wouldn't want to do it.
We want a top businessman, and of course whoever does it would go as president, ambassador, and so forth and so on.
It requires, it has to be in the field of communications.
But it does not be the man who was sending about communications.
Now, I was sitting here talking to Pete Blanton, and we were going over things, and it just came up this morning.
And if you would consider it, and don't tell me what you will do.
I would like to have Pete give you a ring today and talk about it, if you would consider it.
I want you to know that I would like for you to do it.
This is not, let me explain, I can't even suggest it.
It has nothing to do with cosmetics.
This is a very substantive, tough negotiation.
It's one where we Americans are strongly negotiating on our side.
We'll develop, of course,
all positions and the rest.
And the main requirement is the top business exactly.
That's what we're really looking for.
So could you consider something like that?
Pete, all right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sure.
Well, no, no, no.
Don't even consider it.
Talk to me about it and then chat around the whole thing and giving your best thought on the thing and then whatever we come up with, I'll understand it.
You take it.
Fine.
If you don't, why, talk about whatever the name you might need to do it.
How's that?
Good.
Good.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, things are going all right.
You know, in this whole business, you've just got to keep slugging away, you know.
When you pick up some of our papers and you read about Southeast Asia and you think things are going well, you've just got to remember that we're doing what they are.
They are things that we could have done four years ago.
That's right.
That's right.
Right.
The more they correct me, the tougher I get.
But anyway, that's right.
Yes.
Well, they will, because before, when it really matters, it'll all be over.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
I sure will.
I sure will.
And I do believe I'll come to you sometime this morning.
Will you be where I reach you?
Good, well he'll be, I'll get him a ring and he'll call you within, yeah, within a half hour.
Fine.
He's overcome.
He doesn't look good.
The first thing I have to do is call him so he'll overcome.
I agree with you.
He's starting to feel something.
And now he's going to be called ambassador for the rest of his life.
All right.
All right, let's do a, let's say, you say your, let's find your name, but, uh, on Barney, shall we wait?
I don't know that we should approach that through Roy Ash, or, you know, just call Barney.
I wouldn't go through Roy.
No, I don't, you don't want Roy asking, speaking for his boy.
Yeah, and Roy.
Personally, asking Texas to do something would be a damn good thing to do anyway, simply because he has had the feeling that he's struggling because of his ties with Johnson, and that he's starting to like him, even though he's a Republican and all he does now.
Why don't I ask him if he would consider wanting to do that?
Yes, sir.
With the caveat that I started this out with,
I'm here to do whatever you want me to do and to do what's best for you.
I thought it through.
I think that there are too many irons in the fire.
I'm politically invited.
You're good at that.
You ought to do it here.
I think he's accomplished most of what we need over there.
And I think he'd be wasted.
He'd be accomplished.
He'd be wasted.
I think you have to be in the stream in order to do it.
You can't really have a position.
You look at what happens with Cruz-Eisen and Samuel, those fellows, they're just out until they're given that job, particularly if the secretary doesn't want you in the stream.
You've got two other undersecretaries who are doing it.
the political and the organizational stuff over there.
I just wonder if undersecretary for economic affairs is something that a company would consider.
It's a problem, particularly when you don't have it.
You'll remember it used to have that title.
I know.
And they downgraded it because they wanted two other undersecretaries.
No, no, the State Department might find a political undersecretary.
The question I think really is how long do you want Alex Johnson over there?
How long do you want these two?
Are you talking?
Well, first, I think what you might do is to call, uh, uh...
I can call Bill and say he's talking.
I have an idea that's way out.
I have an idea that's way out.
I think, however, that's an enormously important position.
Or maybe I could raise it with Bill.
Yeah, I'm on it.
I'll let you record it.
You talk to Bill.
Well I can tell them.
I can tell them.
You said you preferred to keep me here.
And I can tell them kind of frankly, you know, we've just got a lot of things in the field, little plants and so forth, so many balls in the air.
I want you here to handle all those.
We just haven't got anybody on the screen at the moment.
that I would be a power, it would really mean going for a big player.
Bill is the kind of guy that would say, going for a big player is certainly a smart one.
I'd be a powerful man, what the hell are you crazy with?
I'd crawl around and take care of those little idiots.
He'd be like, how about Dexar?
Well, he'd be an opposite number.
And, uh, sure.
If Bill wants an operator, if Bill wants to get a guy in and save him, then send that to me because he sure would have it in front of him.
That's right.
Rogers, please.
I'm going to get Tom in here today to see if he can come over and do his convenience.
Arthur is, Arthur has such a successful ego.
That's right.
You've been awfully good.
You've been awfully good.
Well, good God almighty.
I picked him up.
He hadn't had the job in the first place, you know what I mean?
We've done all that.
We fired him up around his house all this time.
We have been so socially oriented.
It's all right.
And also, Mark, isn't Paul that smart?
He's a lot better now than his predecessor, Mr. President.
Oh, listen, listen.
We all know that, Peter.
the impression, God damn it, he's creating a lack of confidence.
Why, that kind of thing.
He's not tackling the issue in the bulletin.
That's right.
Arthur, he's too smart.
He's not going to know how his statements will be interpreted.
And he is, when the word is said, the problem is not money supply, it's confidence.
What in the Christ are they talking about?
Confidence in who?
The president, of course.
You know that's what it means.
I said, come on, Andy, Mark, say, you've got to talk in a ballsy way.
You remember Poirot.
What did he argue for the country?
Fine, assuming that he did well in World War II, he screwed up the economic thing, except for the fact that he had an aura of confidence which Poirot and Hoover could not protect.
That's right.
And then, when they had him,
15 million unemployed.
That's what he did for the country.
He sundered the spirit of the country.
Now, Goddamn, when ours returns or any other jackass in this administration pops off and stuff.
Now, Maury is a problem in this respect.
Uh, let me, uh, you got it?
Yeah.
I've been talking to Pete on that thing, you know, Pete, uh, let me tell you this, uh, this can't be what it is.
I think he did an excellent job, and I think he came up with a great accent.
The problem that we have apparently is, is that Pete handles over here all of the, uh, the independent agencies.
He handles the appointments and all that's going to be happening.
Frankly, it takes a man a stroke who knows the big guys and all that sort of thing.
And I just feel that we can't spare him for that because I thought, for example, we could put him over there and we could handle him from there.
That won't work.
You've got to handle him.
But, so, you see, now let me ask you this.
So I just, I got nothing for all three of the theaters.
It seems to me that you might have an opportunity here if you want to come and this is way off.
I don't know whether to go or a one of these business genius societies who could come in there and
who looked for me in upgrading the position, who would give State the, you know, the letter of duty to all these negotiators.
Now, here's a name.
Thanks, Sergeant.
Before you say yes or no, here's a colleague of my age, your age.
He's made four fortunes.
He's considered to be, of course, the closest to Johnson.
He's always a supporter of mine.
And he has indicated that as a middleman in the East,
Would he be willing to do something?
I mean, I just had a chat with him.
He's here for the business council.
If he would take such a thing, it would give, it would give, it would give a, it would give a something to this position and it is never, it's never used.
It's basically like a packer for Indian City.
Is that just a name that occurred to me?
Does it have any interest?
Now, the way he would have to do this is to deal with that.
He might have to do it on a personal basis, but he could go.
Now, the only problem we have here is that some of these
Well, of course, he's, you know, he's, there he is.
He's the, if Roy Ash was the operator, of course, Texas is the chief executive officer, but Texas is the state of, you know, one of the ways he's, he's American Americanized and all that sort of thing, but, but on our side.
And he is a, he's a, he's a great, a,
Well, that's really the thing that appeals to me about it is that you as Secretary of State would be bringing in a man who you consider to be, frankly, a very big man.
I mean, you have a head of a $50 corporation, and who's going to give it up to come in and do this job?
I think it would be a tremendous asset to the administration.
Now, the thing that I was going to go on as Secretary of State, we say over and over, put this up in Congress,
Because at the end, we don't have any idea that Congress should ever approve.
Yeah.
On the other hand, you could say that, I suppose catalog means something to us.
You could say that, you could say that, well, that you would.
Quite sure they might put a tackle over and, well, they have to do it faster.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, Samuel's a superb man.
I've always been impressed by him.
But if you have a tournament, this would be something, would be a, and I'm excited to have him around, too.
And he's one of us all as a team player.
He knows, he knows, he was here.
Yeah.
He does such a fine job out there.
And his mother wrote me a letter or something.
I don't know.
I just want to thank you very much for your good job.
I hope you'll undertake other assignments.
Yeah, well, if anybody has a design understanding, it's probably the CIA.
Yeah.
Joe Alsop was there, his wife, and they were saying, what a great, even else, what a great person this White House was.
And I said, yeah, I'm glad it was.
So I could all calm and thank him.
That's how he was carried out.
I'll just check.
Yeah.
Well, I'll just chat with him and say that... What is it?
We don't think they have any sensation of us except that in his case, we might be able to have one on our side.
Okay.
All right.
So I'll have Pete talk to you further about the, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll have him talk.
I know it wasn't a big, of course, this small group, and it just ain't, you know, I don't know where you get any hands together, but...
But his fault would be to be a public coup for the administration to have him on this.
You know, it was these things, these problems.
I mean, he's the kind of guy, for example, Bill, that when you admit he's oiled, instead of sending Irwin, which was fine, you should find out he could have gone out and handled that off the back of his hand.
I mean, because he's a, he did, he did.
What I meant is that it's very hard to take your undersecretary of state and send him gallivanting around on a special mission.
Did it go good?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great, great.
Yeah.
Oh, well, good, good.
Conley's a, he's got a great sense of humanity.
His wife, she's attractive.
You know, she has a lot of influence with John.
And he's not a man that sees what he has for us.
Yeah, she's the one that really rubs off what would otherwise make him just another Johnson.
You know, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Sure.
I assume that.
I assume that.
Sure.
Well, I see.
That's right.
I just got the Jewish defensively in the league to quit burning up the Russian cars.
Okay.
All right.
I think you talked about this.
As a golf game, Rodgers, Laird, Blount at 12-15.
Do you want to?
No.
You know, Nellie, Nellie Connolly, when she was up here for the Ash Council dinner with Suningax, I mean, she's just great, but she spent most of her time telling me how delighted she was to finally be in private life, how she was going to keep John right there.
So you...
I sat on the other side of her and she said the rest of the time telling me how John Connolly wanted to do something with the president.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
She's a cry gal.
She's great.
No, we'll let them go on.
I'll just call Bill and tell him how flattered I was that he talked to me about this.
Right.
Right, right, right.
Actually, let's be sure to get something, though, that really is worthy of this.
I think, in other words, it's a question of not simply going to... Did he show any confidence he could get this through the Congress?
There's 300 secretaries in one department.
You know, that's a problem.
I just don't know if that's the only reason.
I just hope we can think of something else for a pardon.
The reason is that it expands our scope to get a pardon who is basically considered to be kind of Johnson and that sort, but who also leads to us and it's because they have a pardon.
And rather than just going back to our same people, I mean, I always want to reward our same people, you know,
You know, the Casey thing is disturbing.
I got them.
Bill Casey is smart enough to know that.
Or maybe he isn't smart enough to know.
Bill Casey is brilliant, but he's also absent-minded.
He really is.
He's done something.
He was warned by Proxmire that Proxmire was going to bring up a certain thing in the hearings.
And damned if Casey didn't just neglect to do his homework and kind of compound the error.
It's not a terrible thing.
It's just one more brick in the wall.
Well, how long does it take for me to decide what to do about it?
Well, how many of you are going to decide today?
I thought I'd talk to John Mitchell, who knows him, too, and get his feel of it.
And then probably have Bill...
Write a letter and say he's sorry.
The real problem is not having a good, tough SEC chairman.
I don't know Crosswell enough, Mr. President, but it takes, it's not just a good business executive.
It takes a different kind of objective.
Well, you can do it very well.
That's one of our problems.
And to think that that fund goes to you, well, first of all,
Well, the one on the top of the board gets $100,000.
No, but I have a lot of money.
One of my meetings a month, I got $12,000 a year.
It's rough.
It's terrible.
Of course, he gets $100,000.
He's a sweet, nice guy.
And strong.
He thinks well, but he's not very smart.
With all the friends in the world around him.
That's what they're after.
That's how we got him.
Everybody knows.
It's who he knows.
Now, who the hell he's got, we can put him.
I don't know what we're after.
If we wanted a tough fellow who could do the job, you probably don't know him, a fellow by the name of Jim Hargrove, who is the financial assistance postmaster general.
Good, young, smart, tough guy, and he knows the securities business.
I can't cross.
I mean, just, he's the right age.
That's the point.
Right age, he's about, you know, he's a, he'd have enormous prestige.
Does it make any difference that he's the head of a company that's on the board?
No.
No.
I mean, you probably got to know something about him.
In three inches, he's got a pretty pure reputation.
Yes, sir.
I don't even know a thing about securities law.
I don't think a big company president knows a thing about the law.
Why don't you find out what his background is?
I will.
If he's an industrialist in the real sense of the word, I really don't think he's the right guy for it.
Well, you've got a guy.
You can't take him out of our firm.
Probably the best guy that I know is the czar.
You take him out of the big Wall Street firm.
I've looked at it.
I've looked at it.
Morin.
Chuck Morin.
The truth of the matter is Morin looks good.
Now, Morin's problems are he has represented some mutual funds, et cetera, which doesn't bother me.
But the truth of the matter is John Mitchell said that if his name was put up, he was going to come to the president to try and stop it.
Why don't you give it to John?
Why don't you give it to John?
who never called back for you emotionally, but inspired you.
But John Alexander, just think of all the balls, and who would be the best guy to be head of the SDC.
He's done an enormous amount of top level security, particularly the Federal Guard and the SDC.
But there's a problem, Mr. President, and let me tell you what I think the problem is.
We went to that kind of a guy at the FTC.
We got Kirk Patrick, who headed the ABA study, and he's a great lawyer.
He doesn't understand our problems.
I don't want him to change his rulings for us, but he's got to remember that this is a political world, and you're going to be up for election in two years.
And he just lightly goes on doing what he thinks is right for the FTC instead of saying, what is the effect of this action?
We want a fellow who understands that he is affecting... Well, that barn would be all right, and that's why Casey would have been good.
Well, you remember I talked to you about that.
I'm really inclined to go back to...
I know that Mitchell is afraid of it because, frankly, Bob, the guy was a registered lobbyist in a mutual fund bill up here.
He was registered as a lobbyist in a mutual fund bill.
Probably because he knows his way around here.
How about taking George McKinnon off the court and putting him on it?
Wasn't he on the SEC one time?
George McKinnon.
I know, but was he down here?
Was he in the... What an idea.
When you were vice president, wasn't he down here as a, I mean, secretary?
In Congress?
Yeah, he was down there.
He and I were in Congress together.
But he's a total politician.
He was the host counsel.
Well, he's older than that.
He's 63 or 63.
That's all right.
64.
He's about the right age.
But he's a hell of a guy.
And maybe he'd like to do...
He looks older, but he's still strong.
Is he tough?
Oh, yeah.
He's tough.
He's so political, it's unbelievable.
He is...
Did you want a guy, did you want political control of that place with a guy with impeccable credentials?
Yeah, McKinnon is...
Ideal.
He's totally honest.
Ideal.
Absolutely.
He knows a hill.
He's, uh, he's a, he'll, he'll never get things to death.
He was counseled, right?
Was he not?
You know, counseled for the front.
For the front.
Correct.
But George McKinnon is a real bearcat on all this stuff.
He didn't handle the Congress.
He's a hell of a guy.
and would clean out the staff.
If he'd be willing, George, if you're not, Dan Reince, he'd do anything he wanted him to do politically.
Oh, that's... Well, I don't want him to do anything politically.
I just want him to think politically.
How long is this position for?
Five or six years.
I think it's a big discretion of the president.
The chairmanship is a discretion of the president, but the term of the commissioner is not.
All he's asking to do is give up his lifetime gunship for this, isn't it?
No.
What you do is put him on this and then move him back off of it.
He only has to do it for three years.
Put him on for three years and then move him back to the court.
You can't even guarantee that.
He knows he's political enough to know where he wins.
Politics can change, but maybe George is the kind of guy that can do it.
You can put him on and put him back in the court.
Well, this puts him on this for seven years.
It puts him on trial.
Five, I think.
Five.
All right, five.
Still doesn't matter.
You can pass your time to Tom.
I mean, rewind him.
In any event, he is a politician.
I don't know what the court pays him, President.
This case, I would guess, is Chairman 40.
40. 40.
You know, Mr. President, this right now is as important of an appointment as you've got.
The one thing the American economy has that the others don't, they've all got big markets, they've all got technology.
The one thing they've got is the ability to raise capital.
None of the rest of them.
Japan, Europe, England, they're secure as much and no good.
This one counts.
Do you think he's going to have to put a... Are you convinced of it?
I'm 90% convinced.
I've got Dean upstairs now.
I'm going to talk to him and I'm going to talk to Mitchell and Mike.
Yes.
Right.
Then you lose the country law society.
Right.
I think we're taking a risk with Bill and I don't think we ought to do it.
Up with the stance and everything else that's hanging around us.
Well, Stanton's problem was suddenly stupidity on the part of the stress people within him.
That's right.
He had a clarifying case, but they didn't get it out.
As soon as he got it.
No, they didn't in the first instance.
That's right.
In the first instance.
That's right.
That's right.
Morey is not very sophisticated.
He's got qualifications all over the Commerce Department.
He's the best guy we've got to put in to take care of our clients.
Morey is...
He's good with the business people.
They believe him, too.
Totally loyal.
That's right.
He's good.
But has somebody talked to him about this underling of his who disagreed with our figures?
Because I'm having lunch with him today.
Somebody's supposed to have lunch.
Why put it on my list?
I don't know.
I will talk to him.
But I put it on every day.
I remember about four days ago I put it on.
I said, God damn.
I spoke to her about it too.
I will check with John.
I will check with John.
I don't know if you're having lunch.
I'll be sure that we cannot have it.
Here's what John says.
John says that Bari believes the Congress Department owes as an obligation of all of its own.
independent line, with regard to what it thinks about things.
It has bullshit.
Even, for example, the idea that Maury, of course, went out and was not frightening to do the main speech, saying, well, you have to have more trade with Russia and Eastern Europe.
I know he believes that.
I don't believe it, too.
But I've told Maury, and he knows it, that some of you have found that gear kind of social content.
Didn't want to give it away to free.
He...
I mean, in that speech.
Seymour's not very smart.
I mean, I love him.
I mean, he's loyal.
But when I come to him, I'm not mad at him.
He knows better than that.
See what I mean?
Sure.
Every business man is for that.
Every business man wants to trade with the confidence.
Of course they do.
But come that, you don't give it away free.
Whether he's right or wrong, he made the point to you when you told him, I'm sitting here, that we have to move slowly in this area.
And you should have stuck with him.
I do.
Well, don't raise it with him now.
I'm John Holt.
Don't even bother calling John.
He features in those morning ventures.
I'm not sure we didn't want to bother him with it now.
But you might raise it with him in St. Maureen.
He considers me his friend.
In St. Maureen, nobody here in this administration is more loyal.
And then I can start off with Ardenburg tonight.
That was a silly man thing for him to say.
He used the word confidence.
And your thing indicating you disagree with the figures is going to make the Congress Department look good if their estimates are too high.
But what the hell is this?
That's what all these economists, all they care about anyway.
What we're concerned about is not making the Congress better.
We're concerned about saying those things that may turn the confidence around.
And you've got to talk confidently.
Or he doesn't talk confidently.
Hell yeah, the old baronet.
Damn it.
I think, frankly, even if you shouldn't be fired for that, someone should be fired if they're going against the administration.
He went against Stantz at that time.
So this ought to be as against the administration.
This is against the administration.
It really is very important.
We fire next to the line and it's only going to be really done.
But we ought to do another one, Pete.
Somebody down the line who gets out and makes one of these statements.
That's why I want that gold sign fired or moved, you know, via us.
I sure do agree with that.
Okay.
They're so independent.
Well, he may be right on his figures, but just to stand there and say exactly the opposite of what the Secretary of Labor has said is inexcusable.
I'll talk to him.
If the Secretary is wrong, you should write an eyes on the amendment of the Secretary saying your statistics were wrong this morning.
That should be the end of that.
Okay.
Thank you.
You can call.
Hello.
Hi.
work because of the position.
What do you think?
I agree with him.
I don't think it's high enough.
I think that the trouble is, no matter how important his deputy, undersecretary of control, is, most of all, I ask him to tell me that he can't work because of
You get a change first and then you can't get involved in the following.
So it's a high position.
The purpose of that is for us not to get that kind of a guy unless you change the position first.
That's right.
Maybe I should suggest that you get the position changed.
Sure.
We're talking about undersecretary .
You can't get a heavyweight for a deputy undersecretary.
You want to get somebody who wants a job.
Okay.
Is Samuel sleeping?
No, he wants, we want somebody who's, can be more, would.
No, he's still, he's saying, I'm trying to get a change.
Thank you.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I just think it's important.
Stannis is right.
He doesn't have influence.
It's not our own argument to shake this government.
He really has.
There should be.
Somebody gets out of the cab.
I don't think so.
Maybe we can get Marty Martin to get out and put in that job.
I don't think Robert's work is going to be any much of a heavyweight in that job, Bob.
I do get bulky out if you're in that job.
Bulky?
What's he talking about?
What the hell would you make?
Nothing.
It should be done.
It should be done faster to the back.
You're actually supposed to be running all day.
But he wants to
The other problem is that the guy won't be in the upstream so he won't be able to cross around the bowels anyway, which is, with the value of the plan, it would be to get a white house spy in the safety department.
He'd be kept out on the fringe where he'd never be able to break through the crust anyway.
So it'd be counterproductive, or at least it wouldn't be as disruptive as keeping the planet in here.
That's the idea.
It must be the areas of the planet that would get over there and just be used and submerged.
If he could have been made undersecretary, he would have been very close to Frank.
That looked at it maybe in the Irwin.
Yeah.
Not Irwin, so they could be knocked Irwin to sleep tonight.
It's not hard.
And now Bill is finally realizing that he needs somebody who has some confidence in the White House.
You see, he knows I have confidence in Irwin or Johnson.
And he said to his workmen, Dean would be a great asset to Rogers.
A huge asset.
A great asset to us because he'd play our game.
Rush would have been good.
Right.
He impressed me on this negotiation I'm doing with him.
He's really superb.
When we get going again next week, that's really working.
I mean, we've got the mechanics of it, and nothing will ever show on that, because Russia will feed it in and says, I'm here.
I have one chosen matter that Bob Alters has been bugging me that he wants, well the way he puts it is he wants to leave in June unless you have an overwhelming reason in some other job to keep him in the administration.
He wants to leave Brussels, he didn't say.
He said his decision is to leave
Leave government?
No, it's to leave government.
And to make some money.
But if you want him, he will of course listen.
He wanted to do that before.
And there's no hard feelings.
In fact, we've given him a hell of a job.
And he's done a good job over there.
Who else would give him a good job?
It's a nice clone.
How about that, though?
It has to be on a diplomat lawyer type of thing.
It's very, very... And that's got a lot of energy.
It's not easy.
So the jury was fucking me at the dinner, but Mr. Husbandry should be made ambassador to Italy.
Oh, God, he raised us.
That's a good one.
That would be a butter disaster.
We can drop it.
That's a good one.
They love to talk Japanese.
Japanese.
Japanese.
The reason Joe keeps being considered by people like Colombo is a very lower class South Italian type.
And since it's not bad what it has to do, there's no foreign policy business.
What you said this morning, Mr. President, you may not realize had a profound effect on Italian domestic politics because
Moro is really the strong man in the party.
And by putting your own personal weight in the direction you did, that's the only thing these guys are interested in.
They don't give a damn about foreign policy and they don't understand it.
But domestic policy, they play absolutely for blood like a group of Florentine princes.
One thing I think is important is
and I've talked a little to Martin before, and he's been talking to us about this.
He said it would be helpful to say something about the domestic, political thing.
I said, how could I let the talk come about these things?
So I said, all right.
So the important thing, Henry, is to do what I'm sure is not done enough by Martin or Bill or any of the rest.
I always believed that
in any particular area, is that when they come in to see whoever is the president of the country, that we don't get into that nitpicking crap about this party, that party, who's this, and this, and that, and the other things.
But you've got to take them to a mountaintop and say, here you are.
What you lose is the following fact.
The Italians are the best Europeans.
They'll remember that the rest of their lives.
The Italians are the best Europeans.
That actually happens to be true.
Yeah, they are.
And I said the others have other things to try.
They all got that.
They'll remember that.
They'll go on to say, the impact, the impact, they laugh.
The other, I'm saying, the impact of what happens in Europe, the impact on Latin America.
That's what was so powerful when you said, when you said, oh, certainly when you said that the bad guys won because the good guys wouldn't work together.
That's exactly the Italian situation.
And when you said that we are looking to the Christian Democratic Party, that's exactly the problem.
They're divided.
Their left wing is really as bad as trade.
was in Chile.
And Moro is playing a very complicated game.
He's the most, well, not the most, he's one of the most devious men in Italian politics.
Well, he wants to be president, so he's going to play a complicated... President?
Yeah, they have an election this December.
And Moro's going to go for president?
Yeah.
President in Italy, because the party is being divided, the president has tremendous power.
He can pick the prime minister and he can play them off against each other.
From now on, though, the rule is clear.
No more war on these issues.
None.
No excepting this one over.
Incidentally, this was requested by Spain.
This was requested by Spain, Mr. President.
This didn't come through.
I have it.
Second, with regard, I realize we have to have it.
But with these countries on it, remember, and no others, no exceptions, not Portugal, not Spain, not Greece, nobody else.
There are only the big ones.
The U.S., that would be England.
Nobody else.
No Latin American country.
No African country.
No Asian country of any kind.
Not Indian.
Right.
Right.
Absolutely.
That's it.
So we're going to have to come back here.
I will see the British foreign minister.
I've seen the goddamned German for a reason.
I see the British because he's a friend.
But I'm not going to see the attacking foreign minister if he comes along.
Don't bring him in.
See?
No go.
There it is.
And I will under no circumstances see the Japanese foreign minister.
Never.
I better think about it and ask you a letter.
Cold letters, eh?
I'm refusing to take calls from his side.
They're picking up quite a few cashes now.
They've cut all the roads except the one that goes through the center of the country.
And on that one, they don't have a supply system.
It goes into the open.
It only had 50 trucks on that road, of which
We have four large battalions on it.
Do you feel that this kind of meeting is the best thing ever?
Is to take them on the high plane?
Oh, I think... Rather than getting into this nitpicking... That's the question.
See, they hear this state all the time.
These guys are state... And they can't do anything with it when they come home.
See, an Italian prime minister, really, of these two today, Moro is by far the more influential.
Is he?
Oh, yeah.
Colombo was his prime minister because...
The big guys couldn't agree among each other who should run the government.
So Mauro Manzani and so forth are out, and then Prime Minister Colombo, who's a nice fella.
He's a hell of a nice guy.
I've known him a long time.
But he's not very strong, and he doesn't have his own apparatus.
But you gave them something which when they come home, they can quote.
And in Italian domestic politics, the president is incrementally important.
Good.
I would like to go over a couple of things with, uh, on Ford, on Henry Sutton.
Now, it was earlier around the day that you said the line hours would be very soon.
Oh, maybe he might be prepared.
No, I don't know.
He's going to come.
Yeah.
Well, he could come in.
He could come in and he could come in while Henry's here.
As a matter of fact, I'll come in in 10, 15 minutes.
We'll do that.
Let me check.
Yeah, see what it's doing.
What do you love to do?
I thought that was it.
I thought that was it.
I thought that was it.
I thought that was it.
I thought that was it.
but you thought it was, you still want to be running 4 o'clock roughly, or do you want to trade?
Good, 3, 2, 1.
Let me think, I think 4 o'clock, you'll get it.
In order to do all this, it's next to the sweet one I was going around with you.
By 4 o'clock, just say 4, and if I change my mind, I'll hold it up.
You know, you want to get out, you can in some way,
This story, Henry, about the influence on foreign heads of state, it's not gotten out at all.
Parliament's been bugging me about it.
If you're the only one that can get it out, how can we do it?
Well, when I have luck, I've got to do it.
Let's do it outside the Chalmers Rapids.
But any others, you know what I mean?
Or some people in Ohio.
But you see, it's something that is the hand on the forehand, the first man in the world to be able to answer anything.
It's very impressive.
It's got to start getting across.
It is a fact, we know.
But the important thing is the ability to sit and talk to these clowns.
Every different once, different days, to do it without a note or anything.
I mean, this is a, they can press conferences or something.
This is something that you know very well.
No, there are no other presidents that have been able to do it.
Absolutely not.
They've always had their secretaries of state there.
You know that.
All right.
Okay.
I think that's a good point to make.
Why I meet with them without secretaries of state.
I don't need anything.
And that I'm not because I'm smart, but because I work.
I don't have to do it all.
You have that light experience, Mr. President.
You've been in these countries.
You've been in these countries.
Foreign leaders did not say the name.
Let me ask you, getting back to the other thing, how did you feel?
I was reading the grizzly reports today about the damn CES cut.
Oh, they must be wanting us to move so badly.
We're stuck.
We're stopped cold.
I just got sick of the CES thing.
Terrible losses.
The morale of our people in the medivac,
and the GIs up there are having to blow around because of the North Vietnam and South Vietnam.
He's getting the beer first.
It was the worst goddamn reporting I've ever seen.
I've seen it.
What about now?
What is the matter?
I talked to Motor about it.
I think one problem is...
Well, the trouble is they're not letting them in.
They're sitting on our side of the frontier.
If they had gone to my rifle company during the Battle of the Bulge and interviewed these guys, everyone would have thought the war was lost.
Because G.I.
is always bitch.
We know them.
They mention about the food, they mention about the officers, they mention about the annuity.
And they don't have a clue to what's going on.
The North Vietnamese, the South Vietnamese have cut three out of four of the major roads.
I think that's true.
That is Bob Scali, you noticed it, put it out.
Put it?
John Scali.
Yes, he did, Bob Scali.
Also, I had him in and I showed him the roads and...
I sat there and I showed them the top secret map because there's nothing on there except pens.
I said, that's where the units are.
You see for yourself.
It's my own map.
We've cut the pipeline.
We're picking up lots of supplies now, which isn't a primary service.
But yesterday, for example, they cut 110 tons of rice.
which is uh and you also pointed out that the uh the fires and the pipelines and on top of that they're getting uh they they're about these troops what about the attack on the northern flank you told me on the phone last night that the our guys had handled themselves well that's right now they had heavy casualties but on the other hand sure they have to be careful the north we must have had fearful casualties because they were they were shelled
Under tremendous artillery fire, they've had B-52s on them, they've had tank arrows on them.
Those B-26s out there, are they still being repaired?
They are being repaired, I understand.
Look, can I just get a date?
That's all right, that'll fix it.
Tom, the President specifically wants a date.
When can the first B-26 start dropping bombs?
Get it for me today.
The idea that the other thing that ran all through the news report was that our military were distressed, discouraged, and so forth.
You've got them.
I've got to quit saying that.
Who's saying that?
Is that that curse of your thought?
Who's saying that?
Well, I think the public information policy out in Saigon is a disaster.
And I told Haig to get together Ziegler and text him.
immediately to get it to get a clear line they have to say the hell with how deep in we are we're not uh if you want to i'll get to the map and i'll show it to you where they are why don't i just get it because it's ridiculous i know this is a vr element and we have got to start building
I was sitting in those VR guys out there.
The next road we're cutting... No, that's not USIA.
Is that USIA?
No, it's DIO.
And we've got to do better.
From defense?
Yeah, from defense.
Well, good God, then.
People tell me
But of course our press is out to kill us on this too.
The thing that's driving them all crazy is when Harriman says the North Vietnamese can't afford to lose the war.
Hell, last year he was saying the South Vietnamese couldn't help but lose the war.
If people start worrying now about the North Vietnamese losing the war, they must be...
So it's almost hysterical.
And the reason it's frantic and hysterical is that they're afraid this son of a bitch thing will work.
Exactly.
That's all.
But you take the worst possible interpretation of this, assuming not all the roads are cut, assuming they're just cutting supplies by 40%.
Still, if you ask yourself what these two divisions could be doing now that's more useful than killing these South, these North Vietnamese, and choking off these supplies and picking them up, I don't know what it is.
Well, actually, let me say, having said all this, I am completely resigned to the fact that the press is going to bang us and it's going to be, you know, we're going to have this and that.
But the point is we're going to have some losses there.
There are going to be battles that are lost, but we're going to win the war.
That's what we're getting down to.
And I know this.
I've decided now we're not going to lose it.
And I mean, we are not going to lose it.
And that's why when we talk about bombing here and there, of course we're going to bomb.
We're going to bomb.
We bombed North Vietnam last night.
We went out to some sand sites that you authorized six weeks ago.
There were a lot of explosions.
They knocked out.
And that's a good signal to them.
And I think the North Vietnamese, all these units that are now fighting them,
So I think that the North Vietnamese were going to move those units that they now have fighting north of Route 9 into 1st and 2nd Corps in September and back us.
Now that they won't be able to do because they're going to be even out.
And also we've got a
The report here from a Japanese news correspondent who has traveled in North Vietnam, he says, a Japanese correspondent stationed in Hanoi from mid-67 to September 1970 has stated that food shortages, especially in the southern provinces, constitute in North Vietnam the most serious problem.
The second major problem was the general low morale of the populace and the growing unwillingness to continue the sacrifices for the war.
They were worried in case of an allied landing in Vinh that the population wouldn't be able to fight.
Other sources have also reported morale problems, who destroyed in the southern provinces, while reactions for most of the population are fairly adequate.
They are definitely in trouble.
It really disgusts me, and I'm sorry, to the extent that we were assuring the Chinese that we, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that.
They could get the tone of what I said in the news cameras.
You know, we're not going to do too much.
Keep it a little leery.
Now, Bill isn't doing this, but there's some people down there out of the mood.
Well, you, actually, Frank, will be pretty well turned around.
He wrote a very good article yesterday.
Did he?
Saying?
Wasn't it Rasmussen wrote a good piece?
Yeah, and Frank was saying, remember, he's talking to two audiences.
He's talking to Hanoi and he's talking to the United States, and this was addressed to Hanoi.
The news conference.
The news conference.
The reaction to that has been generally good, isn't it?
Very good.
And Hanoi is screaming, bloody murder, which is a good sign.
And our press, too, they respect that kind of talk.
The president and our press is right now only terrified that you'll succeed.
And I could see from Humphrey, he just thinks foreign policy is a loser for them.
He said, however, that one thing he pointed out, which we've known, is he said the pressure the senators are put under by congressional aides is unbelievable.
He hadn't realized that until he came back.
You know, I just go home and I say, yeah, I really felt for you.
You have to get bright people.
Because you do other work.
Now, most of the bright people are left-wingers.
Because their professors are left-wingers.
Isn't that a horrible thing?
You seldom have a guy that you can really count on, can you?
How many can you really fight on in your staff?
Not many.
Hey, who else?
I'm a cold one on that.
I don't trust any of these elections.
Well, I don't tell them.
I respect them, but I never trust them.
This fellow Halpern, the only one that I've had that can hurt us is Lake.
Halpern did no damn thing.
But Lake is a softie.
Yeah, she's not strong.
But Halpern, for example, now he's gone.
That's great.
We let him go in July, since you and I.
They go up there, and he's history on me.
You know, Hopper and me up there, we're answering that guy.
Well, you know, even though it's a small little group, we do have some people that have been quite good.
I mean, we did the Alsops and Dick Wilson, and, you know, they're highly respected guys, even though they don't like them.
The fact that they're married in a brewery and others go up and have an orgasm about it.
But that's what he's getting.
Oh, yes.
Joe's getting to him, and Joe's a believer in social security and all these things, and I don't know which of us they should be listening.
I think they're trying to tell their press record, and they're in the fashion section.
Oh, we have.
Yes, of course.
Roland Evans is basically with us on it.
He hasn't written yet.
Well, to be frank with you, he's a fashionable subject to an extent.
I think he started seeing that, my God, maybe this fellow is these people.
We just may turn a few around.
As I said, as you said, of course, if we should happen to survive the 72 elections, they'll turn.
And when they turn, we'll get them right in the ass.
Believe me, we're not going to build on this.
They're going to come crawling after the 72 elections.
And they can crawl for the rest of their lives.
You know what I mean?
They're going to crawl for the rest of their lives because, Henry, you cannot build on morally corrupt people.
You cannot do it.
I don't mean that they can't have been against us from time to time.
She says, Joe Ossoff has written some vicious things about me.
I understand that.
Because he was so strong for Kennedy.
But you know, that love affair ended quickly.
That was purely social.
Yeah, purely social.
They had to be gutted enough.
But I don't think he's got any respect for Kennedy.
He would never say it.
No, he says it.
He says it.
He told me what he did.
He told me.
I think a lot of them are going to get on with the Kennedy myth.
I think the Kennedy myth is dying because this...
I talked to Harvard professor yesterday, chairman of my department.
He's one of the few decent guys.
He said, you might not realize it, but you bought yourself time with Laos.
They were all set.
They've got a peace treaty, a draft peace treaty, which in effect says coalition government fixed their life for withdrawal.
And they were going to get a lot of universities to sign that now.
Doesn't make that bit of difference, except it builds a little heat.
Well, now they're planning to have this stuff signed.
Now in March, they're going to concentrate on Laos.
And in April and May, they're going to concentrate on getting that peace treaty signed.
I can endorse my university faculties with a big state of withdrawal and so forth.
Well, if we get this Russian thing on the track again, we'll be serious.
You have some money?
No, that's all right.
Thank you for your time.
I think you're going to find it very enthusiastic.
You want to say it?
No, no.
I want you to watch.
I say it.
Listen.
No, I'm devil-educated.
No, but I was going to move something to the side of the room.
Matthew, you go ahead.
This is mostly domestic law.
I'll let you see what one subject was not.
I think, Henry, it's very important to be sure that Peterson feels in.
He's a lively thought, and he wants to be, and he's ambitious as hell.
And I think the way to bring him in, I think we've got to have you, Schultz, Peterson, early.
I want you to get them all together, John.
Maybe you are in.
I want you to take the lead so that it comes.
Take the lead.
Get the four of you together socially.
to have a little chat, and then now that with all of them, that you're basically the big pie of the staff, you might throw Flanagan
Just I think it would be good to have him in it.
So the six of you sit around and have a discreet accord.
I wouldn't put in McCracken, I wouldn't put in David, the science advisor, those others.
How does that sound to you?
I think it's going to be a good ball player.
Yeah.
What do you think?
Or do you?
I can't tell you, but he's certainly, he's not into some of my problems, but some of the issues.
Good.
What I want to do is to set up a job.
We had some time ago this thought of a little inner group.
And that is the group that I should think of.
There's only one other one that I can think of, and that's Conley.
And the reason I would suggest Conley is that he's a total politician and a son of a bitch and a duck fighter.
I do not suggest Mitchell because I want Mitchell to do some other things.
I want him on the partisan side.
I like the questions that Peterson is asking.
I mean, I like the way he's approaching his problem.
Tell him you like it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Tell him I didn't press the button when you do that.
In other words, let's get him.
I don't...
Here's what's going to happen.
Everybody's going to try to capture him.
Particularly states that are trying to capture him.
Don't let the state capture him.
You're right.
I like Sanctus.
Sanctus is fine.
I think it's difficult.
Matter of fact, we may run it around the other way.
Sanctus may start playing to us.
I had a good talk with Peter yesterday.
You see, Henry, so many of Peterson's problems that are in the province will lack over in the year.
I mean, let's suppose he gets into the cooler thing.
That'll lack over in the year problems.
But suppose he gets into the, what the major oil thing, of course, does, the Rolls-Royce thing does.
I think all the time, remember the last time when Kennedy wanted me to call with him for three or four days, and you said no.
So what you have to do is that you have to play a political role.
If I were you, though, I would leave the economic role to him, mainly because I don't want, and I don't leave it to him, I don't want to waste, I don't get myself involved in it.
I thought I had another on economics.
You didn't do it.
But on the politics, see, the way I want you, I would like for you to look at this thing the same way I do.
You look at it like the political men and sort of be my, what we call my, surrogate on that point.
Because what I want you to do is to come in on every one of the Peterson Committee recommendations of getting a political analysis.
But he had some interesting ideas on the balance of payment of the international monetary system, how he wants to approach it, which would take into account the foreign policy and domestic policy.
The other thing that I want to add, I do want to have a reason to do this, that this, to me, is just a shocking statement by Stanton.
With regard to trade with the Eastern Journalists, for instance, throwing away the game.
I've booked a job.
I don't want to throw away the game.
But I don't want, we don't want to raise those fans.
Now, he's a loyal man, a more loyal man.
But the difficulty with fans is, and he believes this, and it's popular with the business community, we cannot, though, have fans.
Pop them off about something that we're trying to trade with.
Correct.
If we get this thing floating again with the Russians, then we can do something.
It won't float.
I think it will float because they're not doing it for us.
They're doing it for themselves.
But Henry, I really believe that the Russians
Well, they never give any indication that they like it, that they are interested in this economic stuff that we put out there.
They're terribly interested in it.
They want credits.
They want trade.
And we'll give it all to them, but for a price.
We don't give it away cheap.
That's what they feel about us, aren't they?
Right?
Absolutely.
How does that leave you, Kenny Spurge?
This is the reason that it's not...
I'm sure Schultz, for example, favors the trade for these.
I know every business stand that's Peterson won't favor it.
I favor it.
But, by God, we're dealing for Peterson, and it's an absence of business.
Isn't it?
Yeah.
That's it.
That's it.
We're losing it to the Swiss.
$70 million down the drain.
Alright, and we refuse to grant the license that I still haven't signed with the Swiss.
They keep keeping it open every month for another month.
So we can keep that open in March or April.
I was saying that within two weeks of this exchange of letters, we are limited.
It's the old question of the stance of policy fidelity and just having these guys understand what kind of health policy is.
And it's a daily struggle.
He knows what a policy is.
And he started, as you said, I believe it was his response, though, to speak for the business and carry the cart around his neck.
But this business, you know, okay here.
They're having their policy committee meeting next week.
And they're coming up with wall-to-wall regionalization as a counter to .
So I thought I'd broach that over here.
So you have a little bit coming out of it, and it's more of the same.
Next week, or why don't you just say next week the Democrats will come out and just say that if the press is there, if the press isn't there, if only you want the press there.
Well, we'll get it out then.
We'll get it out.
But I want to get it out of the way that you said, John, earlier, and we'll get back to that next week, the Democrats.
This is something we consider is not an answer.
It's simply compounding the errors of the past.
And, of course, that's another way of government.
Another way of government, and again and again, is that it cuts the state legislators out of the appropriation process.
I'm sure if I got home today, it was the way of the government.
And so I thought I'd probably relate to that, and I'll make sure it's covered.
It's a lovely day.
All the others have gone out to play golf.
Well, you sure blanketed the television last night with these physical fitness athletes and the YRs.
And of course all the business of the athletes was covered either with you on talking about jogging or with the silence and commentary.
It was just mixed.
And he does some things good.
I sure do.
I sure do.
They sell it on the cover.
I do it every day.
Yeah.
Like, I'm going to get something tomorrow with my next job.
And then the little old man in there, he's a great analog.
Just think of that.
No comment.
He was silent.
But it was good.
And one of them ran, I don't know, 30 seconds just in the guy's hands.
It was very interesting.
And while they were talking to him.
And the commentator was,
It's a lovely day, and all the others are going off to play golf.
Well, you sure blanketed the television last night with these, with what, the physical fitness athletes and the YRs.
Who would they be if they were talking to you and saying, no, we've got a comment on it.
She played with me on a golf game, and she said, I don't know what you're concerned about last night.
And it got very heavy stuff.
And of course all the business of the athletes was covered either with Yuan talking about jogging or with silence and commentary.
It was just massive.
And it does some things good.
I sure do.
I sure do.
They sell it on the cover.
I do it every day.
You know, Mike's going to get some tomorrow with my nice job.
And then the little old man in there, he's a great help.
Just think of that man.
He was great.
No comment.
It was silent.
It was good.
And one of them, what is it?
A friend, I don't know, 30 seconds, just the guy's hands.
Very interesting.
And while they were talking to him, and the commentator was talking about what he was going to do and all that kind of stuff.
They were just, I guess I have to say, we did the press release all over the network.
Yeah.
It's just never happened.
We just, we just would get, you know, we'd do those all the time, you know, every day, you know, something.
Sometimes they go, and sometimes they don't.
It depends on what else they've got that day.
Well, that, and the consumer price index, and two or three other things.
By the time I turned that first page, of course, it was CPS and those.
Cronkite had that little twist at the end, but it better be around again.
But I don't think that's a worry.
No, it's not a CPS.
The war stuff was bad last night, but the rest is good.
It's going to be bad.
Sure it is.
Because they've got to prove it.
But the other stuff is good, and maybe it's across the line.
Did anybody pick up the Wilson thing?
Somebody did.
No, both of them did.
One in the morning.
Bob Tearpoint was very late on the CBS morning thing.
No, no, no.
And that was a CDF line.
He said, today's show, Terry, you ran some footage that you actually talked about.
Fairpoint did a commentary about that.
The best speech you'd ever made.
I mean, you'd worked harder than gone.
Well, I worked on the part they used.
That's because it was personal.
Is that the name of the song?
Edward David.
You've got to get him in now sometime.
Mm-hmm.
Screw us.
I'm tired of that.
It's not going to happen again.
Can I read you my comment today?
No, sir.
You ain't going to read it today.
I'm just down on serious.
I read it in.
I'm not going to let him.
He's smart enough, John, to know, when he gives testimony, how it is going to be interpreted.
Now, Paul McCracken is not.
Paul wouldn't know.
Maury Sanderson.
Maury didn't know how to play.
But Arthur is smart as hell.
And he knows.
Let me tell you what was concerning about the testimony.
He said, Paul, as he was speaking to both sides, when he said the problem was not the money supply, it was confidence.
What the hell does that mean?
He's kicking us.
Where does the confidence come from?
Confidence in the administration.
He's got to say, I am confident.
And I just feel that we've got to get people talking, or you get the impression.
I don't know.
I had a terrible, very bad impression.
I thought it was exactly what he was doing.
And his answers were very slow, very hard.
The questions were bloopers.
I was in the transcript of the stuff I saw on television.
They were soft questions.
And the purpose was growing up, so I had to set it up.
Well, I've tried to get a copy of that.
It's gone.
We're going to have a meeting on this.
I'm going to get a copy of it.
You and I and Charles are going to have a talk.
Now, he sat there yesterday in the quadrant and took a look at Jesus on the side of the lake.
So Charles told you that in a nice way.
But Arthur is going to get his comeuppance.
I'll tell you why.
We hate Arthur.
Arthur, second, is not as brave as he thinks he is.
And also, Arthur forgets that I have a memory.
consistent in arguing all over the law.
I mean, I'll never forget how he and I, and I know that one night he's against the controls, the next night he's for it, and so forth and so on.
He, the start of the proposition is, he is the people.
says he is infinitely better than McCracken, he's much better.
But Parker is trying to carve out a niche as David Gray enters this whole business, as he's acknowledged when I got to the president's office, and he came out again to the wage price board guy.
And we're going to start building somebody else up.
I'm not going to have one.
We don't have Colin to take him on.
But I'm going to give Colin a month.
Colin will wait a month.
He's going to work on it.
Or I'll be trying to work on him.
He's out of his league with Colin.
He's always sleep with me.
He's been well treated.
He's been treated socially.
We have this on him every now and then.
He's been a sucker.
I haven't been dressed.
And I am just god damn tired.
I hear him.
Peterson, Teddy, and Arthur.
Pinching him on his protocol and all that stuff when he was over there.
First visit.
You know, this whole business of ours has been working on us.
He's always number three man on the international delegations.
Makes you think he's number one man in all this business.
He just walked in the door.
How do you do?
Sat down and he started working on Pete.
I think Peter said if we handle ourselves well, we can enlist him.
He's an epitome of manhood.
He's an intolerant man.
I think it was good that I had him sitting with the fortune thing.
He got a chance to oversee a little of it.
He had an enormous press record, though.
He's the kind of guy that's trying to bridge the- Bridges the- Bridges the- The diversity.
Yeah.
But he's got, in my view, a shrewder sense of salesmanship than anybody we've got around except Conley.
Yeah, yeah.
And, and, uh, and Barty Abel with Conley.
Well, being in the economic area, I'd like to see us start focusing on guys like Colbert Rowland and Ned Dale and some of these guys.
And look, Peterson worked on them.
And he's got to swap over into the domestic.
And Lenny was, you know, he was good, but I mean, he wasn't a fortune-teller or anything, so it was good for him to hear me talk to them and show some understanding of how to make a non-linguistic hand, but you can actually get just sitting here and reading stuff.
But, hey, but Peterson, Peterson is going to be quite a long life, so, yeah, but we got to, and I'll line him up to cut Archer.
We're going to cut Archer down to size.
Now, Archer only understands power.
The way to do that with Peterson, I would suggest, is not you, but you, or George, or both, sit down and say to Peterson, we've got to cut Arthur up.
I wouldn't... How'd you do it?
Well, before you were over there, I tried to get the players here.
He wants to be programmed.
Yeah.
What's the background of Arthur?
The way he's got to do it, he's got to work with him whenever he's in the political.
He's got to be on the political side, and his judgment is infinitely better than his.
I mean by political, you know, on the international.
And better than anybody else.
The tank will not just be for the foreign countries.
It will be for us, too.
The State Department will be disastrous.
You know, he's talking about how the players go.
about the importance of his working with Pete in.
I told him that, did you?
I did.
Because Pete's having trouble getting Henry to hear it.
Oh, I spent an hour with him yesterday.
Yeah.
And two weeks.
Wow.
Yeah.
I didn't even know he had a problem yet.
I assumed that he might have had a problem.
First rate.
I think having flag men is a good idea, too, because flag men has a lot of dirty jobs to do.
That's very good.
We can practice our tactics and we keep at it, but if a 489 overreacts, then I'm sure it's OK.
But, John, I have one line that goes out, but I don't do it anymore because I know how the line lines.
I don't do it very often, like you said.
Arthur knows.
He's been in this town for 20 years.
You agree with him?
Absolutely.
He knows exactly what we're talking about.
We've talked to Arthur about the devastating implication of that line in the past.
And so he's, it didn't ever occur to him.
I'd like for somebody to return this call.
He said the White House staff doesn't let your, my views be known in the voting that I see you use all the time.
He just puts it on the paper.
I'd just like to know, well, I could call back to the president.
He's been working very hard.
He's uncandid and not taking any calls, which he's getting on his world report.
But I must, I think you, I was only there to tell you he was very distressed with this report.
He realizes he probably said that the whole testimony, but it seems that it was now a human time.
You don't have to live with the son of a bitch.
What do you think?
Or should it be done?
It should be done.
Yes, sir, it is.
But for you to suggest lack of confidence, that is that, and the rest of it is that it
of the split, and frankly, you've just got to realize this president is not going to stand for this.
Give our enemies a... Give our enemies a... And I'm not going to stand for it, and I'm not.
Frankly, I'm just in fine with it.
I'm just in fine.
I think that's kind of the next alternative here.
I think you should do it, Bob, rather than George.
George, of course, is an actor.
I think it's better to fire him than to have a unit.
That's right.
No, you're the only one.
But he said he can't take a job, Arthur.
I know we're trying to reach him, but he's going to be there in his seclusion.
Tomorrow, the rest is, you know, he's got the 60,000.
We're all reporting this.
I'm not talking about Arthur.
I guess it's only fair to touch him.
But it's really hurting.
and distressed.
I mean, he saw what you had said before.
He was shocked.
I got, I think it was, and then he wants to come in and see me.
He said, Arden, we'll see you.
No, we're going to have a quadriangle meeting next week.
I'm not going to see him alone anymore.
Do you agree, John?
I do agree.
I think you're a serious disadvantage when you see him alone.
That's right.
That's right.
And just say, no, Arden, we're
I've been with the Quadriads.
I've got the same numbers.
He comes in and then goes out and brokers everything.
And he has no right to see me alone.
He wants to be independent.
He's got to be independent.
He's got to go to the Quadriads.
They've got that.
Well, I think it's good discipline for a while.
Yeah.
Chopping off some of these socialists.
Yeah.
Kind of freezing them a little bit.
Make sure it gets here just by the Quadriads.
That's right.
And letting them know that they're cookies when he's a good boy and not when he isn't.
One thing I was going to say, John, I guess this is your problem.
I want you to keep Roger Spartan from getting an ass himself.
Now, on that Alaska pipeline, it's pretty hard.
But on the Alaska pipeline, he shouldn't have said that, in my opinion.
I understand that that pipeline's got to be built.
Is that true?
Yes, sir.
Some lines.
He's got a plan that says it should be built from Canada.
I don't know.
But for Morgan to get out there and say it's going to be a long race and so forth, he was...
He's brown-nosed, he's oppressed.
What's your reason?
I've tried to reason my brother Bob Hitt, who's his already on that.
Bob Hitt?
Yeah.
And by God Almighty, do we have to do anything?
We've got to make sure that Bob Hitt, he's sweet enough.
He's a loyal, easy-to-see administrator.
I know that, but I don't know.
I think Bob Rogers can get hit.
This is not working.
Really?
Yeah.
And I thought it would be that way.
He just doesn't have it.
But I didn't write to him either.
This guy, I don't know.
I should get him on the National Committee.
I had a very interesting call last night from Wally.
And Wally had been called by the New York Times and the Post and a lot of people for commenting on this.
And he said, I issued a very noncommittal statement.
He did.
Very, very soft reply.
And he said, I didn't want to reply.
He said, I was just calling you to warn you.
that Martin is getting out beyond his depth here.
And that he said, he said, I don't make trouble for it in the long run.
And he said, I, you know, the ancient history, so he said, I don't have to tell you where I stand.
But the point is, if I were to first face it on the pipeline and accept it,
this field, and I've got to watch Morton and others.
I'm not going to have him get out there.
Brown knows he needs environmentalists.
We're going to get an audience that we don't have.
I don't know where the audience is doing that.
Maybe there are ways to do it.
We can have it be the two.
I don't want Morton going too far.
Now, I have a meeting set up with Ruppershaus on this subject, and I just have one more, just to make sure.
How do you express yourself to them?
How or why?
Do you have an undersecretary who basically could do some of these things?
Why do you have one?
Well, on this one, I'm not sure this is the word you're talking about.
Well, Morton, or Robertson.
Morton.
Morton.
Oh, I've got to get control of that, or else, with both of them, or else it's going to get away from us.
Bob did his nice job.
He'll do what we want.
So, I just haven't got any confidence right now.
We've got an interesting thing going over there that I should talk to you about, and that selection here is undersecretary.
Mal Laird, do you know about what Mal's done?
No.
Mal has gone to Raj and said that he, Laird, would take it as a personal affront if Schlesinger were made the Intersecretary.
When he wrote me, I didn't think that Laird would want to get rid of me.
I would have thought that too.
And it took me off to this and said, what's behind all of this?
All right, tell Kissinger to talk to Laird and say,
Well, let me tell you, I don't think that'll work.
I think the better way to do this, if I could suggest, would be for us to make an appointment with Morton to come in and see you one morning.
And for you to say, I understand you're interested in Schlesinger.
I think it's an excellent idea.
Let's agree.
All right.
And freeze Laird out of the action.
Because the way it's like now is that Laird has an appointment to see Morton Monday afternoon.
And if you've got Martin in, and you could also advert to this if you wanted to, this pipeline thing, just say, let's not kick our friends.
But the important thing would be to say, let's go on Schlesinger.
I agree with him.
Let's lock it up.
And if Martin says, well, if Laird had something he wanted to tell me, you could throw that off and say, well, I know there are a few hard cubes there, but I think this is basically what we need to do.
Why don't you just call him on the phone and say that now?
Sam running over, he's in an alligator looking at the airways.
Mark.
Yeah.
Jesus Christ.
Everybody runs down and chases those alligators down.
All right, you can arrange that.
Is that all right with you?
Sure.
Let me ask you now about another thing.
This, your protege, Mosky.
Yes.
Mosky, teach me.
Which is not me, but Matt and so on and so on.
No, it's you.
It's a piece of pizza.
I don't know what he said.
He's not very, his head isn't true, but I didn't hear him say anything.
But I have an idea there, but I don't know if you can see it.
No, I haven't seen it.
In a trip, somebody should have had it on the news.
Sorry, I didn't arrive this morning.
You may be called when you get a call.
No, we don't.
We've come to a conclusion.
Well, that's exactly what we talked about.
The problem is, of course, there is no such thing as a recall.
That was our first move.
That's where we were at the time.
whereby there is no recall of a congressman from the state of California.
Recall is under state law, not federal, I'm sorry.
Well, I've done a little checking on that, and the ratings guys have begun a plot to redistrict McCloskey and throw him in with Gobson.
Gooser?
Gooser.
Well, but the Goosers, they're so huge that they've got to make two out of that.
Well, we will, but they'll both, McCloskey and Gooser, will end up residing in the same new district.
Now, what I'd like to know, at the present time, McCloskey's going to get clobbered anyway.
At the present time, his colleagues are taking him on.
But at the present time, I think, let's retire.
He betrayed the voters who elected him.
I just think that's a good idea.
You'll get a hell of a lot of people signing it.
I think you would.
You'll get a hell of a lot of people signing this thing.
He said, we don't want to recall them.
Of course it was recalled.
But I think people have got to... You wouldn't get a recall because that district would... Well, he passed up the win on you.
He passed up the win.
Well, he didn't like my policy at all.
All right, let's go.
Let's have Tom get something.
Get it done.
Get the young Republicans.
Get a recall.
He has called for the impeachment of the President.
That's what I said.
Don't talk about the war.
He's called for the impeachment of the President.
We can beg for this.
He does not represent his district anymore.
Or we can figure out something.
Okay.
He craves the trust of the voters who elect him.
By the very sound of it, he's called for the impeachment of the president.
I mean, so that it's an up-and-down deal on the president's end.
Well, I think...
But it gets him off in this kind of a kick.
He's a funny guy.
He's, uh... For one thing, he's not feeling well.
For another thing, he's absolutely hit on Vietnam.
He's got a blind spot.
And he's the kind of guy who passes the recruiting office and goes in and signs up.
And what do you think about the Vice President?
I talked to Colson some about that.
I talked to him and went through this whole thing.
He would do anything he's told to do except work for the Vice President.
How about planning to do it?
Well, I did a thing yesterday afternoon, just a matter of curiosity.
I walked over and went in the Office of Winter Government Informations and walked around.
We still have the same three guys over there running that thing that have been there for the last two years.
Really?
Hillsbow?
Hillsbow.
And he's still there?
Yeah, still there.
And somebody named Culture and somebody else.
And so I'm starting to, you know, in personal secrets, you think of a man with a job.
I like to feel that they're doing, that for their sakes, they're doing something.
They must know they're not doing it.
They are.
See, they're not...
The Office of Intergovernmental Relations has nothing to do with the Vice President's project for dealing with governors and mayors.
So I thought literally... You heard my crack right there.
Sir?
You heard my crack.
I tried to build the Vice President up.
I did it with both the Scottish people and the United Republicans.
I said, you know, I just told it all.
I'm sorry, Vice President.
Did you know that, John?
He wouldn't go speak to this gentleman about the leadership thing.
I did it every year as vice president.
He wouldn't go.
What's he thinking about?
I got first there and then second.
He could go to any party group because he'd be non-declared.
Right?
Right.
Something's wrong with this gentleman.
Now, good or bad?
Good or bad, I guess.
But what I said was that I said the Vice President, you know, he's very busy.
He's out selling a record of sharing.
And I said, as a matter of fact, he does more in real substance and foreign investment policy than the Vice President.
And I said, the reason you don't know is that the only time he makes news is when he hits the press or hits a golf ball.
Ha!
I talked to the governor this morning, and I said, why doesn't those votes go away?
He said, until John Mitchell gets him a judge's job, he's not going to budge.
And I said, well, Roy, he ain't going to get a judge's job.
Somebody's going to have to.
John said, oh, I don't know why.
Well, because he doesn't consider it competent.
Jesus Christ, the former governor, anybody could be a judge.
John doesn't look at it.
He's got a lot of problems.
Did you talk to him?
Did you follow up?
Yes, sir.
What was the reaction?
That bro was just tickled to death.
Did he also notice that I said that he was a black cop?
He likes that face.
And he said that he would like to thank me on this event.
And I said, now...
In addition to having your input, however, we will naturally have input from the Department of Justice.
So he didn't think that he was going to make the inquiry.
Also, did you call with him?
Yes, but I haven't been able to reach him.
He loved to hear that.
The President was thinking of a way where we make a new breakthrough in entirely new fields.
We've got another new breakthrough in entirely new fields about to come up.
Could I ask you to do one thing about the replacement for the black girl on here?
You don't need to be a black girl.
And this is something that's rather difficult here, I don't think.
Does it have to be particularly common?
No, we're going to, we've got the girl.
Oh, Christ, we've already decided.
Let me just say what you need.
We've decided what we can change it.
We have done it.
Let me tell you what you need.
And the little girl's fine.
I mean, I know that she's a very good snorkeler and she drinks.
Second.
Yes, sir.
Is that any pretty?
That's very good.
You're goddamn smart.
But is that the way he comes at the time he comes into the office?
Because that's been one of the highest people he's ever walked through there.
It's terribly important who sets out in the president's office, doesn't mean particularly pretty, but a personality type, okay?
Totally got it.
Who you got?
Terry Decker.
Well, how was that?
Was that better than that?
That's a very good looking gal.
You could put a girl, a rose ten years ago with an ID.
You see what I mean?
Very nice.
And she knows her way around.
Oh, she's about 19.
Oh, Christ, she's too young.
So take a look first.
I don't know who it is.
It's on your birthday or that anniversary time when we brought the oldest and youngest secretary.
Oh, yeah.
Rose was the oldest.
This one was the youngest.
Oh, God.
Rose will honor her mind.
That's too bad.
That's right.
She will honor Dan's confident mind.
I don't think she will.
No.
Terry's proved herself.
Rose has got her attention.
And Rose has got her attention.
When the Buchanan marriage comes off, is she always going to stay at home?
I presume so, but I'm not sure.
Okay, often.
Oh, sure.
She's invaluable, and it's good, and they need them on.
I'm sure they are.
It doesn't violate our laws, does it?
Oh, you've been married.
Oh, hell, we've got a service.
That's right.
We're on there in different departments, and they can't work for each other.
You're right.
You're right.
And that's all.
I'm sorry.
No, that's all right.
Do you remember, did he really respond to you?
Yeah, very much so.
And he was very abusive in thanking me for calling him and all that stuff.
Do you remember, MOU sent me, Whitney, I announced to you in that phone call about a judge, he wanted a name, Ferguson?
Yeah.
Oh, Ferguson.
The ambassador to Gallup Police.
Yeah.
He didn't recognize you.
That's okay.
That looks like the best choice.
Good.
And the case wanted to get him on some circuit court and it can't.
And so I talked to Mitchell about this in order to be sure that we had the skids pieced.
And Mitchell said, hey, this may work out four or five different ways.
So Mitchell was going to talk to Brooke and suggest this guy.
Well, I'll talk to Whitney.
I'm telling her that the president has been enormously impressed with Mr. Ferguson.
The Ferguson Act is about Ferguson.
And he thinks that he's going to be a great...
And the President considers this to be a more important appointment actually than the District or Circuit Court thing because it's a new area.
We have volunteers.
See, that's where Edward DeVries came up.
He's a black seat, a black judge for a black seat.
I just think it's great.
Well, that was all nasty.
Now, Millsville, we've been standing on one foot or another and many wanted to meet you.
That's where I have to get his resignation.
We've paid him for two years.
That's right.
I think we've got to talk to the vice president.
The vice president's got to do this.
Yeah, that's all there is to it.
But now let's talk to the vice president.
Who the hell are we going to put over there?
If you don't lose Colson, I agree.
Colson just needs to resign.
Yeah, I mean, Steve just wouldn't have his heart in it.
He just...
He'll work on the inter-government relations follow-up stuff, you know, and all that, but he's really, he's got so much going now, and he's doing so much of it so well that it's kind of productive to pull him out of that into something else.
In fact, I think what we've got to do is move more strongly and overtly than we have on the client thing, and push that harder.
I wouldn't call it talk to her, but...
What do you mean?
Well, you know, I had my first talk with him, and that's the final one, supposedly.
And he hasn't fought.
He's still, you know, he gets out on the road, and we can get him out, but he gets back as fast as he can.
As soon as he comes back, he starts running the office again.
And I'm just going to tell him directly, you aren't running the office anymore.
Chuck Colson is.
and say we're changing that because Magruder's going to be moving into politics more and more, and we've just got to change the whole thing around.
And I'm going to tell him that the option to that is, if it doesn't work out with Colson, that we're going to go outside and bring in the best PR man in the United States and have him do it.
And if we do that, then that guy will have to come in as Director of Communications.
And that Herb's, all of Herb's self-interest is in playing our game this way on it.
The State's Director of Communications will give Rob Odle to carry his briefcase, because we've got to get him out of there too.
And he's a little fellow they have in the office who programs things.
It's not very well.
It's always distorted in life.
This guy was, frankly, the reason that I had reasons in that briefings at the YRD was because we're all going to screw up.
Yeah, no question.
But I was so shocked.
And it just came to me as a, I was really, well, Steve didn't know.
I don't know.
So I asked the president, I said, are you having a blue zone partnership?
We'll move the departure outside until about 2.30.
Well, I think the service is going to have to fight that.
Do you have some explanation?
It's going to be common, and I'll stay around.
He cannot.
I read the people that he is drawing some.
I don't know what I mean.
It's really, I don't want to bet, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,
It's a serious problem.
It is.
He is proving to be.
It's a problem with Sam.
And facing the Sam decision making, the rest, whatever the situation, apart from the campaign, the campaign-wise, he could be a great assistance.
Or, you know, if you move, you've got to, you've got to prepare for somebody else.
so that you don't get a hell of a runoff.
But on the other hand, apart from that, you've got to bend to the fact that whoever is vice president can be president.
And God damn it, Hague has got to shape up on some of this.
He measures up in many respects, but he doesn't measure up in respect to the staff.
And that's the biggest part of this damn job, being able to work with people.
I don't need to work with people.
Is that it?
He is a local politician type when it comes to staffing.
He staffs himself, it appears to me, with crony type people rather than with people who will either challenge him or who are at his or superior level of intellectual and administrative capability.
And he's very buddy-buddy with his staff.
He's very buddy-buddy with his Secret Service agents.
Yeah.
He'll have the agents in for a drink, you know, and they sit around and laugh it up together.
And it's a funny combination between that and this sort of arrogance that he also has versus, like, us or something.
You know, if I referred to him in a memo as Agnew instead of the Vice President, he'd send half a dozen rejections back.
You're set to go.
He thinks it's a bad idea.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why don't you give Pat a call?
I know we're going to leave at 2.30 and see if she'd like to invite the cops or something.
Tell her to get her up and enter the meeting one way or the other and whether they can go if she wants to.
Okay.
And tell her to proceed on if she wants to.
Right.
Right.
She isn't here today.
I don't think this is a good time.
It's good.
It's good.
But I really think we've got to, if this comes out, we've got to stop looking at those staff and just level with them on this stuff.
I don't even know what we're going to do.
Well, we may break our picks, but I think we ought to try.
And frankly, I think you can talk to me on a head-to-head basis.
in terms of the presence that's been mentioned.
In other words, you've got to do yourself a favor here.
Show some bias and show some awareness and, I don't know, this isn't a matter to not, you know,
What do you think about this?
Now, Connie raised a point with me that I want to discuss with you.
I think we ought to evaluate whether we may be pushing the bits too hard and throwing in too much energy now on revenue sharing and the rest, having in mind that this is a long, long battle.
And he said, I think that the, he says, your staff people are doing a great job and so forth, but it may be that they're pushing too hard, too hard to get everybody in, put everything out, and so forth and so on.
He said, let us find ways to work on these congressmen and senators and so forth and so on.
And also, he makes this point, he says, now let's face it,
When this gets through, it's going to be compromised.
We must never give it away in advance.
But it will.
But the most important simple objective is that I can dedicate myself so that Peter Black never passes that Congress as an action victory.
So he's really thinking straight.
Now, the point that I make is I just get through his mind about selling the brand name rather than the product.
He said, just sell the brand name.
It's got to be in the program.
He said, revenue shrinks.
I don't care what kind it is.
It could be this kind, that kind.
I know we make the distinction that we want general or discussion.
It's revenue sharing that's the big thing.
I want you and...
I wouldn't keep him out of sales planning, but into one of your sales tools.
Let me tell you though what George did.
Colson told me about this.
He spoke at the AEI.
George Holtz, American Enterprise Institute.
They had their board or something for election.
George spoke to him, and his whole thing, every point he made, he put in terms of personal characteristics of the president.
He took them one at a time and banged them through.
The president's
Hard work in doing this is what it is.
The president's courage in making this did this.
The president's deep convictions of concern for people did this.
And he did the whole thing that way.
And Chuck said it proved so conclusively the point that talking about the meat of a program is ridiculous and talking about the president is what they want.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'd like you to read John's speech to the Lincoln Club in L.A. because it's a stupefaction of doing exactly that kind of thing.
You've got great acclaim as a result of it.
And you were a little concerned beforehand that you had to give a substantive speech instead.
I can't explain.
I can't say it too often.
I can't.
But it'll stop us all from asking.
Well, Jack's all George used in his speech, and it worked.
Now, maybe more than that.
Well, thank you.
It's out of that question.
That's enough.
And that wasn't in the speech.
There's not sapphires for all of these, but I put it in.
But it's the kind of thing that, great sapphire, you can't, none of them ever submitted a speech.
Not just personal, it can't be written, but you've got to tell a little story.
You've got to tell the little story, then you catch him.
You know, it was interesting.
I can do the business set about tearing the building down.
Oh, did you?
But you said, how did you say it?
I'm going to tell the story.
The whole story.
About how you and all this stuff.
And about how he went by the other day and said, you know, well, at least we've got one big gun right here.
And when I gave that line, I got not only a big laugh, but a big bunch of applause.
Because the anecdotes show that you were fighting the bureaucracy, and that you were persevering, and you were backing up your staff, and all of a sudden, there's a good admiral.
Yeah, well, I didn't have it quite that way.
He made the mistake of going to the Army-Navy game on the Navy train.
And he talked about the ranks.
At first, commanders and assistant secretaries descended on me, then admirals and undersecretaries.
But that looks like, oh, that got a great big hand finally.
It's a good story.
But it has qualities of the present in it that we have to work harder to get out.
Substantively, it's a totally insane thing.
It's a total thing.
Basically, it was done for Kennedy.
Nobody thought about what Kennedy did.
and they didn't do a goddamn thing except that the company was in trouble, of course, in that sense.
Very true.
And Connelly's made this point.
That's the whole Connelly line.
Connelly's helped talk about the program.
He talked about it.
That was a meme, though.
There's presentations that John makes today.
Connelly shouldn't have submitted it.
But just enough hateful.
This is a great crusade, you know.
You have to do American Revolution.
The rhetoric, that's what this kind of... mainly these people have got to feel they're in something bigger than themselves, something bigger than just the day-to-day nitty-gritty of fighting this kind of rule.
Just don't fight over bills.
Pay no attention to them.
I have to get over there.
Well, we'll get together with Connelly and talk about this.
How does that sound to you, sir?
It's fine.
What do you think we are doing wrong?
Well, I don't want to talk about it.
I suspect he's right.
We have a feeling that we're pressing too hard.
We're concerned that this phase, including the first 30 days, I want everybody to connect you and revenue sharing as a household word.
Well, and you wanted to miss the story.
But you want the feeling to be, and we've done that, you wanted the feeling to be instantly the presence of just pushing the bejesus out of them.
Now you don't, you've got to only do enough of that to sustain the momentum.
You've got national media attention, and to the extent that the national media has...
recognized and carried this.
I think we made where we were on that.
Why don't you say this?
Why don't you have a hand?
Well, I'll hand it over.
That'll be a chance.
All right.
There's one.
Then we talked about the regional things.
And I really think that's the way you cap this phase.
You do four issues.
Some.
I don't know if four is a magic number.
Do some.
And get out and impact it.
The president takes the issues up and down.
That's right.
And then we can pull back off this thing and shift into the congressional phase, where it's head-to-head, it's individual, quick, wild.
But you've got to get the citizens' organizations and the grassroots to start mobilizing.
But that won't happen.
That kind of thing you want to spread out.
That's the kind of thing I think Conley's right on, but you've got to be doing the state work.
Yeah, because they thought our government was going to do it all.
They very well sure did.
I saw where some Democrats even traced it.
So, we're going to get the counter-reaction out of the labor people and the health and welfare professionals.
I don't care.
Nicole's not here to assist it.
I'll get in there later if you leave.
But I've decided that on the labor, we may have to fight.
I mean, I'll keep my friendships with them personally.
They're getting political assail, but they're going too early, in my opinion.
There's an interesting column by Alfred Friendly in the Post this morning about Hedy's problems with labor.
And there's a very interesting parallel.
And I pushed it all the way through.
There's total labor irresponsibility.
I know that later a bunch of people are going to figure it out.
But what he says, he's losing his resolve.
He sees an enormous clash.
Subject to the reservation that labor may not be as tough as they're talking, and they may fold in the last hour or so.
Well, as you know, it's by a day.
That's cold since they're here, but it's hardly wishful thinking.
You know what I mean?
We're going to give them, by God, that day to speak.
It's got to be done.
But that's a tactic.
That turns out a strategy.
It seems to me that there may be a possibility of tying America's and England's problems together as a phenomenon of a phase in the development of, well, before we talk to Colson, what does he make our mind?
That's my view.
I don't see any way around it.
You'll never buy it.
We can never give them enough.
Their natural instincts are against us.
That is for the leaders.
Right.
Because they say, fight labor union leaders only.
All leaders only.
Leaders only.
And I can see a rapid Roosevelt-type speech where you go on the stump and you say, a little group of narrow locals.
self-perpetuating an attack are driving this country to the brink of economic disaster, and I will not permit them to do that.
Well, I'm going to do that on a day's stay.
I'm going to do that on a day's stay in a low posture way, unless you seem to make it out that you're doing something important.
And we've got to take these people on.
They are good men.
They support our country on foreign policy.
do this, they cannot raise your cost of living.
Well, then you have to wedge them away from their union members.
And they use an excuse, you see, that their members won't permit them to do the right thing.
Then we've got to find a way, symbolically, to plate the rank and file so that we don't cut ourselves off from the working man while we're cutting ourselves off from the engine car.
If we go to the engine, we need to be able to do all the things that belong to the L-T1s, the glucose line.
That's a tough one.
That's a real tough one.
Well, this gets to the point of why I want to get Herb and his clock out of there.
Just like it.
Frankly, I can loosen the weight of this thing under your organization.
Yeah.
Alright, goodbye.
Farewell.
Good luck.
Have a good weekend.
You coming back?
Am I going on from there?
No, I'm going home.
Good.
You raised the point of how does he spread himself so thin.
He does a superb job.
of having everything that he has to do, it's the thing I'm trying to do, and I'm trying to watch the way he does it to figure out how to do it.
Everything he has to do, every responsibility that John has, is covered by somebody else.
So that he, at any given point, never has to do anything.
And therefore is able to do what is important to do.
And he's got a superb ability, therefore, not to be concerned with the urgent and to work on the important.
Because he's got, his divergent is covered by his other people.
And we ought to do that.
That's right.
You know I do.
Of course.
That's what I mean.
That's your whole skill.
And I think that's a very good point that I never, he's a very confident commentator.
Because he's, you know, he saw Johnson running around frenetically about every problem.
I've been involved in a little problem, so I can call him, he doesn't like that, but that's important.
Or you don't get involved in it.
You cover it with one of us and forget about it.
Then you let it get done.
The tendency is to get done, which I've done too much.
Like when the Ed Morgan thing isn't rolling, I start calling everybody in and doing something about it.
That's the wrong thing to do.
You've got to make the other people responsible and make them do it.
And John does.
You've got to be prepared to have a lot of things slip across now and then when you do it.
Because it's inevitable.
People just don't get everything done and done right.
But it's still a better way to do it.
Who's Dizzy Rose in here?
Mark Call is your new sponsor, but actually he wants to spend the rest of her life.
Oh, I won't answer the first question.
Let's just not give her a close.
What criticisms of her have brought you the most trouble?
Oh, that she's, uh, oh, the idea of, uh, that, well, the idea that she's basically a square.
And to be true, that they criticize her for being, they criticize her because she has to have the virtues that are no longer actionable.
Happens to have.
That is an orphan at an early age, worked her way through school, great character, determination.
But the impression of her being sort of a fellow plotting, both have drawn, it is essentially the opposite, actually, in terms of, if they were getting very looking in terms, it's true that she doesn't, she,
doesn't make a fool of herself in public.
For example, her refusal to make a fool of herself in public.
But this sort of thing is a, your impeccable conduct abroad and at home in very difficult circumstances really is something that is indispensable in the first place.
And also the indication, because her conduct is impeccable, that she doesn't have war.
Okay, terrible.
For her sake, you wish, for her sake, you wish, you hadn't run into politics.
What's a terrible moment?
For her sake, you wish, you hadn't run into politics.
Oh, a question.
Well, they actually deserve it.
They give you one.
It's very much harder for a woman.
I've always said this.
because the men have been in battle.
The wives have been suffering on the sidelines.
And also, a woman comes to duty and is released more legally.
I mean, but the Constitution has been defeated.
There's days it becomes harder because of a high ideal.
Thank you very much.
Great idealism and so forth.
of our two daughters, and they shoved the defeats of my two adoption defeats much harder than I did.
Because once a woman becomes committed, she's much more loyal than a man.
I love that.
Much more loyal than a man.
Men are, men tend, in politics and in life, to be, uh, to be less, uh,
Whereas, once a woman believes, she intends to believe in a cause or a man.
And also, a woman takes much harder the criticisms of her husband, the wife does, than he does.
that criticisms do not bother me.
I just consider it, I consider it part of the, I don't know, I have the word, I have the most unfriendly impression, any impression in history, or something, or an impression that has never bothered me for one moment.
But it usually, of course, bothers me.
because they see it in personal terms.
Whereas I see it, I mean, to me, I see the press totally in personal terms.
Hold off, please.
This little one.
That's the one I'm using, which I've always used.
Secretary, you've got it out there.
Yep.
This person is not a victor.
His family has a general friend who has multiple sclerosis.
His name is David Shriver, who's cousin of Sergeant Shriver.
Originally, I was conducting a mine, too.
I just thought you'd hate, perhaps, my claim to anything.
He's just running him through on the tours.
He doesn't know about it.
Uh, they, I mean, right away, we just have to meet for a minute.
Stay where you are, John.
Bye.
Just running him through.
I think the idea is that once you've got a good story, you talk to the President, and the President of the United States never insists, and it's not him, but it's not him.
All of his life, he just never stood on the protocol.
He takes it to the mark.
The mark of a big man.
He's just willing to talk.
And he's very impressive.
When members of his cabinet or a congressman or senator will pass, we'll talk directly to him.
Well, come right in here.
Can I ask a question?
Yes, how are you?
Nice to see you.
Well, let me see.
This is me, Bob.
Well, how are you?
Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
That's good to see you.
Let's go over here and get a picture.
Come on over here.
You stay there.
That's right.
She doesn't get on this side.
There she goes.
Look out there, T-Bone.
It's just a lab.
Okay.
They're showing me all the stuff.
Give me presents.
You get compliments for this.
I don't know.
I can't do it.
They want to hear the voice of the DJs.
They want to follow it.
You get one of those.
You have one.
You don't.
It doesn't matter who you get it from.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Who do you give this call to?
No, no, see that's the reason I don't give it anymore.
One of the things we're talking about doing is we've got this guy, remember Van Shumway from California?
We've got him in now, and he's doing a hell of a good job at planning stuff.
But what we're going to do is get another, this is the thing we've been talking about, is getting another...
Chuck feels we've got to get four more, but we'll walk before we run.
And I think the next guy, if we can do it, ought to be a TV guy, or a guy that at least has ties to TV, but they can plant that kind of stuff.
A guy that...
Now, we've got already, of course, a lot of people who can and do do that, and you can't just use...
But they want to be organized.
That's right.
So if you've got to talk, you've got to be impressible about it and say, believe us out.
That's exactly right.
Or what you have to do is say, here's the line you have, and here's what we want to know.
This line, talking to secretaries, is a very, very important line.
I've always done it all my life.
And also, it will shape up some of the goddamn...
I come over here, and when I ask what time of day, they want to talk to me.
But it's also a dandy insight into the man, which is... And I've done it all my life.
I have never been seduced.
Whenever I call a man, I've talked to secretaries all over this country.
When I was a congressman, I called the congressman in law and talked to your secretary, and I gave her a message.
She got to know where to talk to the man.
Where is AA or whoever else?
It's conceit when an individual insists on talking to the top man.
I think it's the ultimate conceit put at that for an individual to insist, to insist on talking to the, about talking only to his opposite number or the top man when he can, just as well, accomplish the integrity by talking to him in the trenches.
And I also show respect for the Secretary of the Ministry of Assistant
That the people that are most impressed with me, that I know are the mother of life, are those, interestingly enough, that are willing to talk to my secretary.
That's why he's so important to me.
That's the promise.
And I feel sure of that.
And I'm glad you feel that.
Is it live?
Is it in frame?
Yes, sir.
Very good.
Awesome.
Good to see you.
We were talking about the Vice President's thing, and I think you're right.
But we've got to get another man in there, Bob, and I don't know, or either that, I don't know how to do it, but we've got to get somebody.
Who else was with him in the campaign?
Well, one thing John and I talked about is that we can, I think,
And somebody else agrees that we can get some substantial help from Harlow in dealing with him, because he's got a rapport from the outside.
Bryce can be very helpful when we're starting on it.
Bring Bryce to see me Monday, and you and Bryce and I will talk about this problem.
and say, now, Bryce, would you work it out?
Because really what is involved here is the vice president's survival.
Yeah, it is.
He either is going to start to shake up, or I can't use it.
I can't use it.
Well, the other thing is, John and I have got to do it.
And we were going to do it this afternoon.
I think John and I have got to do it.
We've got to double team it.
But it's for the two of us to see him without his staff and basically level with him.
Hit from the embassy in, in, uh, in the attack from our, from our embassy here, the one that sat in the American side when I met with Colombo, I've seen him in Italy.
It's very impressive.
Is he at DCM?
I don't know.
He's not at DCM.
I don't see him to help.
This is a bright young guy with sort of big teeth and all the rest.
Big horse face, but just very, very upbeat.
Very impressed by him.
I'd like to find out what other languages he knows, for one thing.
He sat in with you?
He sat in.
He sat in as the translator running that Colombo.
And Colombo had his translator.
I'd like to run it down.
Who is he?
What is he doing?
And so forth.
And basically what I mean is he seems to have the right chemistry.
He's got enthusiasm.
And Frankie is a hell of a translator.
You know, I can use him a little bit.
Well, I noticed he didn't take a note.
So he apparently is one of these who has a photographic memory type of thing.
Who was in charge of that?
I hate to know who it is.
Henry, I would like to talk to Hague.
I want to get a, something, a line on a guy that he sent in here the other day.
Is he there?
Yeah, yeah, I won't bother you with it.
I'll be fine, I'm sorry.
Good.
I hate him for having me on if I can't go home.
Who was the translator that signed with me in the Colombo visit?
Was he a State Department fellow?
I noticed he'd been in Italy.
Is he in the embassy in Italy or is he in the embassy here?
I'd like for you to run him down, see who he is, what languages he knows, what his background is, left, right, and so forth.
He's very impressive, and he didn't take a note, and he had the mental conversation to see if he did a good job.
And get me around, I'm telling everybody, this guy, I didn't want to bother anyone, I understand the world perfectly.
This guy at ABM Property, he looks to me like a young Walters.
Yeah, did you meet him or talk to him yourself?
Sort of a big-bore space gallery, I think.
Yeah, but a very pleasant one.
Just a minute.
Heading to that valet there for 20 minutes?
Okay, I'm done.
At the end of the day, the department is funding you, sir.
Now, I'd like to do something else.
I'd like to use Blair House.
That's not the State Department's house, isn't it?
Doesn't that belong to us?
When we bring entertainers in like Jackie Gleason, I'd like for him to stay at Blair House.
And I'd like Bob Hope to stay at Blair House.
And I think we can do it again.
You already invited Bob Hope to stay at Galena.
Well, Bob can stay with us, but I don't want Gleason with us, you know, because he'll stay up all night, I don't know.
Jesus Christ, I can't stand it.
But I think having Bob, having him over at Blair House would be great.
Early in the evenings at the White House, let's use Blair House and have him stay at Blair House.
Don't you think it's a good idea?
Yes, sir.
And there's a big old staff over there, and they're going to press out, you know, this is the White House, and they're going to run right across the street.
And they can bring their, you know, three or four of their staff and be able to feed them.
So if you arrange that.
Yeah, Nick really runs that.
Yeah, I really love it.
Well, we've got the other thing going, which is another interesting asset, which is Chapman's French, the guy he refers to as Chapman's French, who he's got back working.
I can't remember his name.
He's a Jewish columnist.
We used him in the campaign.
He did a hell of a job for us.
He traveled the country and reported everything.
He used the code name of Chapman's friend, which he would use.
He's back writing a column for some obscure New Hampshire baby.
Yes, that's it.
Well, he'll say anything we want in the column, for one thing.
He also attends all of Muskie's things, and he'll ask any questions we want to ask, you know, or anybody else's for that matter.
Do anything we want.
He comes in with some interesting kind of poop.
He's the guy that gave us all the stuff I told you about the headquarters set up and who was in what office.
We also have a study that...
They don't know, but they think so.
They think they do, yes.
Do you think maybe the teddy is gone?
I mean, Muskie is certainly capable of it.
It is just the latest addition.
The latest addition has been all through Kennedy's office.
I do know that two of Kennedy's staff people have told third persons that they thought Muskie was behind it.
There's some people in the federal was demoted because of the jurors.
Yeah, certainly.
Ah, it's a shame.
It's literally not as much trouble as they used to.
No.
Before you take off, let me put a V in your bonnet for a minute, I think, and I understand it's up in the curtain, but the TV does.
It's drawn from the front of your voice.
I agree.
It's beautiful.
It's awesome.
Our recommendation is to not do a television thing.
I'm not going to say it's the world's worst.
It's the world's worst.
I strongly feel that you should not use up your prime time energy to go on, because something has no reason.
And, uh...
Well, they point out that there are a lot of options and other things you can do.
For instance, you can sign a message to Congress for pictures on Thursday morning.
And then, if they get the most, the thing that you get the most out of it is that at the conclusion of that, you can say to the press, we're in for the signing.
You may have some questions regarding this message.
I'll be in the press room in 15 minutes to take your questions.
Go into the press room.
on camera with microphones.
Take some foreign policy questions for business, sir.
See, they will have given the thing out on Tuesday.
First of all, they're briefed on the report.
This is your brief on Wednesday and with State Defense.
Uh, they don't want us to use crackdown programs.
It's recent.
It's presently used.
We're not going to get selected.
If you want to announce a decision together, or if you want to hold a press conference, or if you want to announce a new government, if you want to really argue on the side, on the right, on the left side, on the right side, on the left side, on the left side,
That's the real problem.
Now, the other thing you could do is you could also read
for a camera, a 10 minute summary of the thing or something like that, which could get us to do it.
We might get five on this.
We've got a little more stuff.
Other options would be to hold a live television press conference.
Go on for a press conference, which was our original plan anyway.
Or also a
whether the foreign policy and the foreign policy report.
Do you discuss it?
No.
No, but I don't think your decision should be based on one hand or the other.
Oh, you know, I...
I don't...
I mean, I would like for you to do that for our... We do discuss it with Henry and Sapphire.
Say hello.
You know, you can read the state and district radio and let them carry it live.
How about a live radio broadcast?
At noon, something like that.
We've done that before.
Or how about a live TV broadcast?
You're validating the crime, aren't you?
You're good.
You've got more.
You've got more.
You've got more.
We're going to do the whole thing live.
We're going to do the whole thing live in the middle of the day.
And that night, they picked up.
And if you don't have questions, then you just have the president.
Why don't we do it live in the middle of the day?
That's what we're going to do.
How about that?
See, there's lives up here.
That's strange.
Is that at least what we're going to do today?
We're going to do it live.
That's going to be
I feel better.
I think it's really taught the audience that there's questions.
What do you want to get the audience with this kind of thing?
I think it's taught the audience that there's questions.
I think it's taught the audience that there's questions.
All right.
I think he's doing something.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure if he's going for radio.
Radio at night.
Oh, radio at night.
So that it rides all day through the traffic.
Our radio can get a bigger audience if you do it at night because we play it.
Oh, good.
Radio at night.
Radio at night.
Radio at night.
No, you saw that.
I just wanted to ask you a second thing.
I'm going to ask you a question.
It's like a question.
It's like a question.
But you agree.
How do you feel about this?
You know, I never tell people.
I just want to be able to write back and read back.
When I go on television, I actually need to be on a follow-up press conference.
But I don't need to be on the foreign policy report.
I can do it.
I can get ready to do a foreign policy talk with the press conference.
That's the foreign policy.
The press congress will overwrite the report.
Our aim this year is to get this very lawful report, lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful lawful
I think it's good, it's good.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
I don't want to see it lose my mind.
We're going to have to decide.
But what I need is I can have an office press conference this week on domestic policy on Friday.
And we're going to think about this foreign policy.
So we have a domestic thing and then do a foreign policy television thing next week.
We're going to do the office thing.
But that's out of the office.
It's out of the world.
It's part of the domestic policy.
So we're going to write both of these this week.
All right, that's my argument.
But I don't think, I just don't think there's enough oxygen.
When you go on nighttime television, there's got to be a reason for it.
There's got to be oxygen.
Oxygen.
If you did, I'd do it on Wednesday rather than on Friday, rather than when four calls were on Thursday.
Thursday's a better day than Monday.
It's a better day, so there's rides more through the weekend rather than through the weekend.
That's what we can do.
Gentlemen, they're messing with the governor and all that crap.
If you guys are tight, you wouldn't have to worry about it.
I don't think we should deal with those kind of things.
These are more policy things out there, which they've done the following week.
We'll be right back next week.
But then I'd go on, I'd do it on 8th and 8th.
I'd get a, oh, I'd press on the tip of the stand setter so that you could do a lot of time.
We ought to be on TV.
Yeah, we ought to be on again.
We're on quite a bit.
On the news.
Yeah, we're on the news.
We're all on the news.
But on the other hand, the use of the office press conference is very, very good.
I didn't knock one of those off.
You can use a lot of the crappy agendas before going on.
It ain't televised.
You see, I'm fine.
I think there's something to be said for doing the domestic press conference this week.
Here, I mean, in the office.
And the audience are in the room.
Five o'clock in the morning.
See this?
10 o'clock.
On Thursday.
How does that sound?
Thursday.
We're doing one a week.
Why are you doing one a week?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
We didn't do it last week.
That was last week.
Last week.
Oh, wait a second.
Wait a second.
I just don't think you can do one.
And I'd say, well, get the governors in the early part of the state of the world, the latter part of the state, and go, in other words, go for a TV press conference.
I think that's the thing to do.
But how about making the TV press conference possible?
I just think there's something to be said to say that, um, rather than want people who we can't test them to speak to them next week, I'm going to do a press conference on the border policy.
I'm going to investigate it.
We're going to get rid of it.
There's so much out there.
I'm not going to do it too much.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it.
But if you would talk to the American Sapphire and say
That sounds pretty good to me.
Alright.