Conversation 456-005

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except on items that I select and know what I want.

and say, which one of these do you think there might be a little color, and then mark a couple, then let the guy come in for those.

And then we bring them in right Friday and let them grow.

And then we'll set up the others.

Okay.

Let's do it again.

Okay.

Yeah, just .

He doesn't know what to do.

Well, he's concerned about running loose, which they are.

Bit by bit, we're in a foreign trade policy position that we don't intend to be in.

We're getting issues .

and just wants to be sure we're looking at it in terms of what we're doing.

Because each department is running its stuff in on G's and some of the stands on G's.

It's all supposed to come true now.

That's what I'm telling you.

We've got to find a way to sit down and you've got to have it run through so it's all part of whatever it is we're intending to do.

And go ahead and beat it.

Scott, you've got to call in Rogers Kissinger, the director.

I was asking how to get his nuts out of his tracks.

He said he has a very good deal of it.

He's quite a sharp guy.

What does he know about this?

He doesn't know.

He just gets along with both.

He sees that Rogers is rational and that Henry is not.

I think he...

I don't think you have to take science in that route.

You have to recognize it.

Like he said, I had a problem with Roger's body.

Henry had told me he had his body activity and all that stuff.

But I figured, I just called and said Bill, we're going back and forth on this thing and it seems to me we're making a mistake.

So Bill, when he finished, Bill said, as a matter of fact, I think you're right.

And he was very satisfied that it had been a constructive conversation.

So that's exactly the way that he would have done it.

He's a perfectly honorable man.

So I think we can just lay on the line and do our argument.

It's hard to deal with a person who you don't know about.

As loyal as he is to us, he's goddamn hard to have to deal with in the administration.

Just got to have a situation where it's just very bad.

Not going to take anybody, even Hay or Moore or Blair, anybody else coming in.

I thought we were having both of those things or something.

Good morning.

I said, you don't need to come back and call me at 9.05.

I have the meeting done this way at 9.35 or so.

I said, well, I tell 9.35, 9.40, I suppose.

But Bob, he's, I'm contesting him.

He's a good read for the first time.

I don't think he's going to be the second time.

Because I think people get on to him and all that bullshit, you know what I mean?

And it's going on and on and on.

He just will run just when you take him off.

on something, he gets mad.

Because he takes it as a person, you know, that you're challenging his integrity or his intelligence or something.

What you're challenging is the mind.

That's not what you're challenging at all.

You're just trying to go into the thing.

You're just trying to work on it.

They're not really here on that.

I don't know what they do.

There's nothing.

You don't want them.

Yeah, we don't want that to be the overriding.

I'd like to avoid it.

I mean, if there is, I've got to be there when it's done.

And I'd just like to go there.

I'd like to support us.

It needs to be real.

And I'll let the veterans allow us.

What was the, uh, what was the, uh, what was the movie draft or something?

Yeah, that's right.

Oh, I don't know.

I got it from Calvert.

Oh, Calvert?

Yeah, he was in Calvert.

Yeah.

What about ours?

Ours?

I think one of theirs.

It was in the South Vietnam.

Well, was it?

Mm-hmm.

It wasn't in Cambodia?

I'm going to say over South Vietnam.

I think probably, probably what I think it was was...

I put a memorandum in there about the

Craig, you know, I'm just burnishing.

I want you to get...

And I told Alex, he's got to get these things that I put in that list.

I don't want to get lost.

Four days later, he said he does.

So anyway, he'll probably, he's got to get them.

Or he'll get them.

And I guess if he were, I don't know, he would have heard it or something.

I didn't get a hold of him.

But I did today.

He called me.

And I'm just supporting this up there.

You know, the options, the lines, the economy.

There are burns over there.

I've got economy coming up.

You've got through the burden, so you're in conversation with him.

Yeah, I know I made my point.

Arthur's point is, it's very strongly substantial.

He was through by then.

His thing on confidence was way in the middle of the speech, or his testimony, and it was making a point.

He wasn't watching.

But I think...

I don't know.

He's trying to get off the hook.

All right.

Nevertheless, you've got to shake him up.

He knows very well that you were very disturbed.

You don't know.

That's not the way.

It's that sort of thing.

You know, the kind of thing that affects the market, for example, from so much.

And I mean, so I...

It's that kind of statement.

That was the main item that came out, that Saturday statement.

That big money sale to the market, this has an enormous effect.

I've heard it's more effective than anybody else.

Because he hasn't dropped some 10 points yesterday.

He didn't, he didn't, he didn't.

He has enormous pressure.

It's important that you get in.

Do I have to?

and the best retired officers are 60 to 65, and the best retired chief executives have come in at 60 to 65.

Well, I just want him to know how strongly I feel about him, and I should make it real and have him think it out.

So when he comes in, I will get close to him on the side, okay?

I worked out a business team, and I don't know if I can get a word on this.

It just doesn't work to have somebody be in there every time.

So I worked it out with Alex.

He used to check the thing every day.

If they caught one or two items, they may have some covering or something.

And on those, the writer could fit with them.

See?

And that's that.

But if I, like today, I see John Waters at that place.

I don't know anybody in the room.

I see John Waters at that.

This is the governor of Arizona.

I don't want you to find her.

Let's see.

You're about to report.

Understood.

Now, there's another.

You're as aware as anybody of when there is something.

If there is, tell us.

Just say, in that name, let's see.

Just tell them how it was, and ask if they can find your transcript.

I don't want any transcripts.

No, not even transcripts.

Tell them to go back and listen to it and just make notes on it.

As if you had been sitting here making notes, all right?

That's all right.

But he must do it if he understands that it's going to be...

So we'll never lose anything.

Once a month, maybe, I can tell them, you know, just tell them to get the thing back on that way.

It isn't working uncomfortably either way.

And that's right.

For instance, the guy that was doing the, I don't know which, oh, it was John Andrews, was doing the sports...

you know, the physical fitness much.

And you had superb things.

And the overall thing was even more so going down that receiving line.

And they put some of those out.

The one that really got some mileage and is a damn worthwhile thing was that tennis guy who's scoring a system of them.

I don't know.

I didn't know what he was talking about.

I already wrote this work.

But you made some crack around it.

There was a great interplay between his wife and you.

About it took us nine years to get people to accept this.

And you had something about who you know what the problem is.

There was a great interchange.

And it got played.

Yeah, sure.

This kind of thing.

Sure.

Okay.

That's good.

Well, I'm glad we got some of you in.

Tree Stopper was South Vietnamese and went down due to a mechanical problem in South Vietnam.

Probably was sabotaged.

I guess he was leaving yesterday.

Yeah.

I didn't know, sir.

But I would like to do this.

Of course, that may be not a fine conversation.

Well, he didn't say it that way, though.

See?

It's a handful of people.

You've got to say that you welcome your views and all that, sir.

But you don't throw in the sponge in advance.

That's my point.

It's a very...

The comment was all right.

I saw it.

It's...

He simply said, I'm here to say that we've got all the answers, but we think this is a good start.

We all said, and he went for it.

Well, that very instance, the bird in the library, we all thought a couple of these.

Not all these talking was, it's early administration.

He mentioned that it's been all in Sanchez's office that he made a statement about exactly the office of the council of economic advisors.

He obviously got a state grant, but we have simply got to find a way, and I don't know how to do it, to get more discipline.

I wonder if Connolly isn't the guy to tell these cabinet officers that they have a responsibility for

The other thing is discipline in terms of weeks and so forth.

That's all I understand, gentlemen.

I mean, when he has his room, when he has his, is the vice president set up that day after we got that set up?

He's setting it up after every one day he's set up.

We ought to talk about it, and then we ought to stop this.

The back-fighting, I'm taking back-fighting, back-fighting between departments, police, which are cadets present, and second, and third.

just getting people to all take the same lines, and that cabin officers have more discipline than their people, and that they're all responsible, and the convoy can sit around and say, look, I was doing a collection of the convoy about this or not, where you want to talk, talk to them about the rest of the stuff in there, and just follow them on this, and understand, yeah, the convoy, I get this talk, and I labor him to talk, and at the dinner, it's only cabins.

That's right.

Okay, we're going to set up another dinner for the senior staff.

It feels strong.

It's going to take them some time.

You know, it might not be as long as it takes, but he's up testifying every day.

And he doesn't refuse to go.

They all want to hear him.

It's a cursory standing performance to go up.

Are we all setting off from our drill this week?

Radio 3 o'clock.

4-11.

I think 11 is fine.

I'll let it run all day.

That's right.

I forget about it.

On radio through the day.

All right.

Good night.

Or the, uh, the Bob Hope Party.

Because we're on TV.

It's a TV book.

You can't, you know, film, read.

And they've given Bob Hope a lot of material, uh, revenue sharing, that kind of stuff.

So, you know, we're... Yeah, we've dealt with people who... Was that right?

I was singing a little song.

I said, you know, it's...

He can't carry a hole to himself.

He's got to have something.

But he'll introduce now.

I just want to introduce him.

I'm not sure that's right.

I want him to introduce himself.

If you should introduce Holt and then let him know.

Yeah, I just want to introduce Holt Hart.

You know, I was thinking that I might, might give him a golf ball while I'm there.

Maybe we can get a golf ball covering it with red, and I'd say, here's one for Vice President.

That's a pretty good gag, isn't it?

That is a gag, Vice President.

That is a gag, that is a true gag.

Just in case I want to go online.

We have to get the...

I don't know.

out there for this reason.

You know, I'm being over that time and again, you know, trying to get involved in the police again.

I'm a cohort.

I'm keeping up on this myself, keeping up on things I should have done.

But I don't think Reggie has a problem.

He's a great leader of all, you know, of those negotiations and of the tariffs and all the tricks.

All the time.

He was wrong.

He tried.

But he was wrong in the sense of saying, well, they're jiggling or they're going to twitch or we can just go, you know, all that sort of thing.

He's always felt that.

It's last night.

I said, no, it isn't.

He's not.

I got Tony, but it's no time.

You see, the problem is that he is not a good negotiator.

He just is not.

He does not know.

We've got to keep him the hell out of that sort of thing because he's a negotiator just like he is for staff meetings.

We just can't have a blowout, you know?

and I am capable of with Rogers or Larry, for that matter.

And once Conley gets in there, he can pull up again.

I don't know, maybe it's just a matter of the present time, of course, moving around.

We were about to stick you with it there, for instance, because on a plane down in Florida, Roger's sitting on the top of you, and he said, you know, he knows he should have it next year.

He raised his hand yesterday.

He said, we aren't going to give us all of you.

the percent he thinks we have on.

And, uh, therefore, we might as well forget that.

We've got a little fuel summit next year.

He raised it.

That was over there for lunch yesterday.

Personnel stuck with it.

He raised that whole thing again.

But, uh, the board said that he thinks the Russians will go along because they need it just as much as we do.

They think that they're going to risk it.

And I can't, you know, don't say anything to him about whatever he's talking about.

It puts, I don't know, there's a problem there.

It's a very difficult problem because I can't, in fact, these negotiations have been, you know, independent discussions here without Henry's content and Bobby's psychopathic about trying to screw Rogers.

That's what it really gets down to.

He wants to have a salt agreement and a ruin agreement, and I keep him out of the mid-east with Chris Montgomery, but he wants to do that without, so that,

I don't think I overestimated the problem.

It's very serious.

Oh, it is.

It's just goddamn hard.

I mean, I can't agree.

And we kept, you know, patching it over with band-aids, temporizing it, which we do.

Maybe we can keep on doing that, though.

But I'm not sure.

It blurs up and down.

The problem really is, though, at least I don't think so.

If you face it, there's an insurmountable problem between the two of them.

Henry is clearly, to me, he's more valuable than Rogers is.

And more irreplaceable than Rogers.

Sure, because I don't trust him.

But if Henry wins the battle with Rogers,

Resulting in a robbery, so I'm not sure if Henry's going to be livable afterwards.

Livable when afterwards, you know, get the picture.

And, uh, I remember too, that maybe for Henry to come to us is kind of what's on it.

I really realize that.

But it takes, it takes, he's right on a lot of things procedurally that don't interest you and aren't there for you.

You don't want to be bothered by it to the extent it shouldn't be.

That's right.

He does have to do it in order to keep the thing up.

Rogers, the other thing, one thing you want to raise with me, and Larry's got a metal in on it, and Rogers wants to concur on this, is that the nissons are being overdone.

We do too many missiles and we do too much planning that never sees the light of day.

And he doesn't feel that missiles should be issued until he and Blair have been consulted on the subject of them and there are the agreement on their part.

Plenty needs to be done.

Apparently Henry issues NISMs on his own conference without the concurrence of the secretary.

He's hired a guy who could do, you know.

But so I just do it to get my help.

But some of the bills, I guess, did cost, I mean, one of the NISMs, as a result of the cost, the cost, it cost $6 million in time.

charges against a thing that came out, most of which was done after a decision was taken.

Well, let's look at this thing.

I think we've worked it out with Henry.

I think he's right.

Henry does communicate.

You know what he's doing.

He's trying to make it work for his family.

But it's also a control device.

It's probably useful for that, but it's a question of how much control we've apparently had.

I think they'll say 136 systems that we've been here or something like that.

And some of them have been damn important and some of them have been ridiculous.

Well, we're not aware of them right now.

There's a committee review.

I don't think it's you.

I'm not sure.

I don't know.

He'd be irreplaceable.

He'd be more irreplaceable than Bill.

You've got to remember that Henry is a terribly difficult individual to have around, you know, in terms of our, I guess, our whole general morale.

I mean, he just really is, but it's too damn bad to...

Oh, so I think it's because of his psychotic hatred that he has for her.

I mean, part of it I know he believes,

He said, I don't want it, I can't go into it.

Then he didn't mention it to me.

He said, I can't go into it now, but Christ, if you didn't tell me, I should be worried about the things that you can't go into now.

He just says, Steve, that would be it.

Every day, something or other.

We know about the way the state's cutting us up.

The horrible things they're doing.

And I find this a joke, but the Christ's a bit different, is that a thing?

Well, they do something they gotta want you to get you out of today, I'm sure of it.

Ever saw that story before?

What happened to the State of Triumph over the NSC?

Got the salt removed from the State of the World?

Message.

The pieces on which the salt comes through.

What's that?

The what?

I thought it was the land.

Crap.

No, it's not a piece of news.

I'm sure of it.

Why don't you just send a man around to Rogers and just say that the President's on his team.

He thinks this is not helpful.

He says this makes the task of achieving more difficult.

Really believe that you... Or why don't you call him?

Say, look, that's a real tough thing.

Now, we have enough arguments.

Can you do anything about this?

I wouldn't do such a thing.

See, Rogers overlooks a lot of the hit-and-stand people, too.

He will not miss a gun.

There's a bigger goddamn thing that's going to result in the state of the world or not, you know.

It's nobody gives a shit, except men.

Sure.

That's the point.

So nevertheless, it kicks up really the softness.

The soft stuff in there was about the only news there was in the whole time.

I thought he may not, he may not see this, but people find the story and never miss it.

I do think that, uh, I think you ought to call Roger's about that.

I don't know.

I just, just raised it, but this is a kind of a problem here, so what do you think?

It comes right out of what was talked yesterday.

Yeah, what do you think?

Is this race a problem?

And I do think this is just people looking pretty damn good that way, don't they?

Yeah.

Well, I don't know.

I didn't want to fall last night.

You know, it's a narcotic.

It's a narcotic.

You see, what I'm getting at Bob, did you ever read, did you ever read what Lincoln wrote during the Civil War?

A little.

Nothing, nothing.

The press was bad, the generals were bad, everything was bad, everything was going to be told every time.

And here he's coming in, he's going to be a social statistic, I don't know, he's going to be a staff agent.

I mean, virtually, I mean, with the content making a crisis out of it being moldy, you know what I mean?

I mean, well, it's not the right way to do.

It's just, it's a, it's a, it's a, and also, we do not agree with this proposition that in terms of the breeding business and so forth, that, that Henry has not been effective in terms of the presidential bid.

And it's a snobby decision to make.

Pretty much so, but I don't think there is anybody else who can either drive you where they are.

Well, even on the domestic side, no one has, except they are here helping so now.

And how could, you know, Henry internally has just subverted that.

If he could swallow his determination to move himself and get into someone else, he could do a hell of a job.

He won't do it because he wants to prove himself before the press as being a scholar.

On this governor's conference, then, you know, to see whether or not we want to have any...

I mean, what's your reaction?

It's not just that you're looking, but it's not just...

One concern, the news, of course, is definitely a concern.

The governors are concerned about their getting the money.

Yeah.

The news is concerned because they're totally in play.

On the other hand, they're totally in play in deals with South Vietnam.

You see the Dennis Warner piece?

Yeah, the news summary.

What do you think of that?

I wonder if you can just get it back.

Did I put a note on the run?

I don't want to lie to you, but I think you got that.

the congressman, Senator Gold .

It's a bad story in the New York Times this morning.

And I think we have to say something.

I think really basically what they want to hear is

that you are for revenue sharing, you're committed to revenue sharing, that they'll read a lot of stories, and there's the inevitable Washington Scuttlebutt to the effect that the president doesn't have his heart in this thing, and you just want to speak to them off the record so that they understood exactly where you were on this, that you've made a serious proposal, that you want action, that you're not looking for a campaign issue, and that regardless of what they may read or hear, you're in this thing all the way.

He said what he did in the hopes that he could lure Humphrey into a co-sponsorship of our bill.

And I said, well, I told him that, and I said, do you clear your testimony with John Connell?

Because I had in mind what Connelly said here yesterday, so I followed him.

And he said, well, no, this is so cut and dried that he just didn't clear it with the secretary.

Now, I must say, six days ago, I talked to the secretary and said Weidenbaum should not testify anymore.

And he said, I'll take care of it.

No problem.

And here he comes.

Because I knew Weidenbaum was on the line.

Why did Weidenbaum just try to say whatever he thinks would satisfy the senators?

That's about the size of it.

What he in effect said was that we are not really committed to this.

What he said in effect was that we will accept changes.

Now, as I just told him, maybe we will accept changes, but this is just the opening dance.

out there saying we'll accept changes the first week out there's no question but at some point way down the line mills and you are going to sit down and there's going to be some conversation about whether there's a middle ground but i never talked about you just kind of got a little bit like i didn't want to go off yeah he's he realizes that he can't because i did it you know i said let's go throw in the ball yeah

or the towel before the goddamn fight begins.

Well, and Rockefeller was calling to get some signals.

He says, what are we fighting for?

And I said, we haven't moved.

And he said, well, I saw this story in the paper.

And I said, I just hung up talking to Wheaton Powell.

And he was out of line.

And I said, we'll be up there at 3.30 today, and we're going to set this thing right.

And he said, well, that's fine.

But what about the president?

I said, the president will be up there today, too.

And he's the one who set this thing right.

And he said, hello.

So he's satisfied for now.

But we want to say we're for this program, no compromise.

Oh, no.

No, indeed.

You want me to say it?

I think just about the way I said it, that there's a tendency in Washington to play after we bump that track.

They said we would not send any compromises in.

But how do you answer that?

Well, I'd say I'd answer this.

I'd be to say, well, we're not going to talk about a compromise.

We believe this is the best program.

We've seen no of it, nothing.

Exactly.

We think we've examined every conceivable alternative.

Now, we're not on a mission.

Maybe there's an alternative we haven't thought of.

But here's what we have thought of, and here's what's wrong with it.

And that's the thing we'll do.

Sure, sure.

But...

I think I ought to go last because I'm longer.

And there will be a lot more questions.

And he has limited time and I wouldn't want it to run into his presentation coming short.

I want to ask him though if he will.

He should.

And he should firm it up.

Firm it up.

Oh, the alternative, I see nothing.

Don't worry, I'll get that joke right in the head.

See, Rockefeller said he's been out at Early House with the urban specialists this week.

And John Briggs from Indiana came out, and two or three other Democratic congressmen.

They said, well, the president made a hell of a presentation at breakfast.

But, you know, the one thing that we still aren't comfortable about is whether he really wants action or not.

And I said, well, Governor, the President said it in so many words.

And he said, well, I'm just telling you that that's the tact they're taking, and they're trying to undermine you by arguing that you aren't really considered a spot in the general election.

Didn't they say that about reference?

They did.

The welfare reform.

The welfare reform, same place.

Didn't they say that about everything we heard?

Right.

And you can... And they said it also about even ending war.

You can anticipate it as so.

By saying, you know, there's a funny thing happening around this town.

A fellow puts a proposal out there, and the way they try and take the dirt out from under the foundation is by saying, well, they really don't mean it.

You won't want to say it exactly that way, but that's the sense of the thing.

You can forearm and go out.

This brings us to the other question, and I think my answer is this.

Bob and I talked about it a little.

I do not believe we should give them anything except this domestic subject.

I don't believe we should give them any background on Vietnam and vows and all that sort of stuff.

The only one that could do it if we did it would be my son.

But I do feel that they've got to have a little of that.

I can do it, but I'm afraid that that would become the manner in which that would happen.

I wouldn't even open it up.

Wouldn't open it up.

And I simply say, also, let's just play that like it is, and say, well, look, it's solved.

It's operation.

It's going all right.

We're on withdrawal.

It was on schedule.

Period.

If I were you, I wouldn't even mention the part of the world.

No.

I'm going to say we are here for a specific purpose today.

In fact, we are here to ask your support for us in serving the government reorganization.

And here's what we believe in.

It's just crack, crack, crack, crack, crack.

I'll hit it hard.

I'll make a 10-minute talk.

And I'll hit it damn hard.

And I'll close the movie.

This is about reforms and the result of which we get thrown out.

The governor of Texas, this idiot Smith,

is trying to get the rules changed up there so that he can introduce a resolution for total federal takeover of welfare.

Rockefeller thinks he's got him blocked.

What does that have to do with that?

Oh, to eat up every dollar we've got flying around.

That's what he's proposing.

Lindsay's?

Isn't that Lindsay's?

Yeah, well, he's filing a lawsuit, you know, to, but see, that's a little different, Bob, because it's a city.

And Lindsay's theory is if you can't pass welfare costs to cities, he doesn't care what it ends up with the federal government of the state.

He just wants to get it off the city.

Not very many cities have one fair life.

Yeah.

Rockford suggests that you slide by it by simply saying there's a confusion in some people's minds about welfare costs and revenue sharing.

They are two entirely different subjects.

And they have to be critically thought about, one as one subject with its relative advantages and disadvantages, and the other as another separate subject.

There's a lot of fuzzy thinking about your business.

You should say that.

I will.

I don't think I should do that.

Right.

No, that fits very logically in the course of that comparison.

Yeah, I think you should get into that.

You get into this.

I don't feel that I'm frankly loving up on that.

Fair enough.

The other minutiae that's going to be involved up here that you should not get into is the question of regional commissions.

They are perfectly, yeah.

You loaded for bear.

I loaded for bear.

You can say you can have your regional commission if that's the way you want to use your money.

You have, as a matter of fact, see, we have sent a bill up advocating a one-year extension to the Appalachian Regional Commission to get you on record so that there's no confusion about where you stand on this.

Well, I understand you've got it.

And they're under revenue sharing, as I understand it.

They don't continue unless the state is one of them.

That's it.

Exactly.

Just like the Rocky Mountain Regional Commission is .

Probably not.

I hope not.

The Rocky Mountain states have one that does not depend on federal legislation at all.

They do.

And they've gotten together and formed it.

And they pull away resources.

And that's the pattern that we think can be followed in the rest of the country.

Will you cover the region?

Yes, if I would love to.

If I would not, I would get into it.

I don't know.

I just think I've got to say this is our program.

It's well thought out and so forth.

And I spent days and months on this program.

I just keep saying your point.

And Brock Barr is simply also reflecting the fact that Lizzie and all the other senators and presidents have been reporting this.

He's running into this, you see.

And he feels that we've got to run into it from the left.

From the left.

Well, how do we talk about that?

What's the markets out there doing?

Oh, we're just plastering the country.

And what is that?

Now, Connelly thinks we may be overselling.

Do you think we are?

No, I don't think that.

I think this is evidence of it, that we're not overselling.

But you see, the Democrats are in a vacuum right now.

They have no good counterproposal.

That wall-to-wall regional commission thing that they tried to fly over the weekend just fell flat as a pancake.

Right, right, right.

But what I'm getting at is this.

So they're attacking in a number of different ways.

I will say, I've got to call in for you.

Well, particularly when you get stories like the Shanahan story out in Wheat Mound, that...

Make it murky.

You've just got to work that much harder to get the damn thing cleared up.

What I'm going to do now is get Ziegler to make sure that we have good press coverage up there for the briefing so that our line gets across and gets carried.

We'll be on to the press.

You will not.

I don't have much trouble with that, actually.

The stuff that we're going to put on

has been seen by the press.

We put it on in substance here.

They haven't seen the slides, but they've seen it.

They've had the pitch.

And so there's nothing new in that.

You've got to get a hell of a problem with the press and the fact that I'm

No, I haven't heard a breath of that.

I think everybody's content to head you off the record.

And I think it has more force off the record.

You're not going out there to be insane for the press.

You're going out there to tell the governor what you want them to know.

You're doing it for the purpose of the governor, not for the purpose of the general public.

And the press will get stirred up enough about the fact that you were there that...

So what the plaintiffs have brought, so I'll read the press afterwards, on the president's coverage of governors, so we can build up the point of what he does.

Because governors obviously are going to do it.

Yeah.

The other way, it's perfectly alright to have the whole thing off the record as far as I'm concerned.

That's what I think.

That's okay with me.

I like the whole thing off the record.

I can open it and then have Russ go about reading.

That's what I would prefer.

Alright.

That's great.

That's fine with me.

We can be a little freer.

Then let me make a suggestion, and that is that... That's Saturday.

That's the way I have my remarks prepared constantly, to say that exact thing.

Gentlemen, we're not here to abuse the governors, to support them.

In order to make any... We're here to ask the governors to support us for action.

That's the way I ran this talk.

That's what we want.

I agree.

That's what we need.

Well then, how about doing this as a follow-up?

There'll be a lot of agitation for the content of the presentation.

Supposing, maybe Thursday or Friday, Ziegler says, well Ari, if you come around Saturday, we'll put the slideshow on for you.

And take questions.

On recognition.

So that you can see what it was that the president gave you.

Then we've got to heighten the level of evidence.

I don't want to put out just when I do something wrong.

Put the whole damn thing out.

I'm not in such a position to put it out.

Where for where?

I don't mind putting out two or three highlights of what I said.

The other thing we're going to do today is to give the government an advance copy of the computer printout of what every city, town, and county and state get under general revenue.

It's a book about that thing.

So that they'll be able to take that home.

or send it home and make the deadline, we'll hand it out to the press here tomorrow.

And so they'll get an advance on that.

Well, fine, that's all right.

I'll talk to the city.

We all can't express it in our computer, but I think we all can.

That's fine with me.

Ron, I just wanted to be sure we understood.

What I don't want the governor to discuss is I don't want the whole thing on the record.

I don't have anything private to say to them.

I mean, we want to build up the fact that the city is a whole thing.

So the press is just going to know.

It's going to be an executive session.

I'm going to talk.

Congress is going to talk.

Earth is going to talk.

The whole purpose of it is to have it off the record.

Our purpose being to prove that we get to the governors that we're there to get their support and not to use that as a forum to talk to them.

Yes sir, I just announced that you're second to the press conference.

Yes sir, I said you go first.

Oh good, good.

You're saying the same of mine on Congress, your coverage as the President, what about Conley and

We want the governors to feel free to ask questions.

We're not trying to exploit them.

We're not trying to use them as a forum to make them speak to the country.

We're trying to get their support.

And they're understanding this thing.

And that's what you do with them, sir.

And for that reason, the whole place will be exactly the same.

Scott, were you all right?

Yes, I did.

Hit the pipeline for five days.

You know, it's a good one.

Five days.

Then we'll get into that front spell, which we haven't done.

The front spell, I understand, will give the press the highlights of what happened in the author record session.

But we'll come out, and the other thing is that John will be able to hold the end of the whole slideshow on Saturday.

Well, let me work with Rob on that because there's some nuances in it that I think we can counter.

Fine.

All right.

Thank you.

We had boys all anticipating, wondering what you've done to the plot.

What have you done to the job?

Oh, yeah.

Well, I really got those guys.

I mean, I think of that poor chap Chelsea looked over there.

He's such an honest fellow.

I couldn't believe it.

He said, he said, my God, he did.

I think he now knows why I was afraid of the former clerk.

He came over to me and he said, don't you think we better get this thing positioned back?

Yeah.

And he said, they're going to go out here thinking he's going to invoke controls or something.

And I said, well, just wait until it gets done first.

Let's see where we are and get off.

I believe there's a third object.

What was that?

Reeds, Davis-Bacon, or perhaps both.

But we have to play it that way, or this is the story of the leaders.

That's the way to do it.

I'm really a little bit stressed about it because he's just

goddamned difficult, you know, to deal with Bob in terms of, he seems even to carry the speech, not wanting anybody to see it, you know, that sort of thing.

Well, goddammit, it's far better for them to see it than to cry about it later, you know?

And there's no sound I can't let, very low energy.

Dr. Rogers.

I totally do.

But, um, what's that part of the second?

So, I said, well, are you there?

No, but he told me what he was doing.

He came in asking how I handled Henry, and then went in and did it, and came back and told me what he did.

And he said, the point I made to him was simply that, for the same reason when I was doing the economic speech, he told me to go over and go over with Dr. Burns.

And he said, and my architect, he was a multi-class.

And for Christ's sake, what difference does it make?

It isn't, you're not losing control of this.

He's sat right in the middle of consulting the drivers.

You still know what he's going to put in.

Well, I can tell my architect, I can guess it.

It just gets so...

Why did Sapphire go crying to Henry about it?

Why didn't he just go see God, you know?

He did the right thing.

He told Henry.

He was going, nobody should go see and then come back and say, that's what we did.

But to Henry, he can't clear everything, Bob.

He is not going to be able to do it.

He's, uh, I don't know.

But that's the right.

Sapphire has to do it with the right.

He's got to go.

to tell him what you were going to do, just to get him all shook up, thinking you were running around behind him.

That was to set up another pipeline for Rodney, you know, another way that he'd rush things in, and all that kind of stuff.

And I said, hey, that's so ridiculous.

How the hell is he going to run things in if you're a Sapphire?

Exactly.

When Sapphire took the speech over to Peter and Rodney, what did he want to do?

Did he want to take it over?

Henry did.

Why the heck is he going to wait this time over there to take a speech over there?

Oh, for Christ's sake.

He just said, I'm used.

Another pipeline.

These are the psychopathic ones.

If you were doing them like you were earlier and perhaps what you would have done, and that probably would be a better way to do it, would be to hit it too much.

You can't do it this way.

It would be for Henry to call.

I used to say, first, if I go southward and over, review the things again.

And then he...

He's convinced that Rogers will use him, and he will do.

There's some merit to Henry's all along, you see, but he's completely right in this way with his faith in Rogers.

But he's wrong with regard to the fact that the way to deal with a situation is to mitigate it by having some sort of evidence, rather than none.

That's where Henry's wrong, you see.

He wants to run around and just put this thing out there and have a bench.

What the hell, we're cutting the election down.

A robber's raised with me yesterday.

He said, how can I get it?

Turn it directly to the president.

I don't want it to go by Henry.

I said, Bill, if it's substantive, then it shouldn't go to the president without going by Henry.

Because the first thing the president's going to do on a meeting like that anyway is call Henry in.

And we'll get him checked out or implemented or whatever's going to be done.

But for you, it only goes Henry in an impossible position if it comes in without his name.

You're just creating a problem rather than solving it.

And I said, if you've got something personal, something like that, then obviously you should go direct.

And I always would.

And he said, well, how do I get that?

And I said, send it to Rose.

What was he sending to me?

And he said, I'd rather send it to you.

That's right.

And I said, that's fine, but I want it understood that anything that you send such and such, it will go to Henry.

And he said, well, how do you keep it out of this whole apparatus?

And I said, if it needs to stand on the apparatus, I'll go over it with Henry and go, you know, go directly in through Henry to the president without going through his apparatus.

You know, if it's something that you don't want discussed.

for some validation and then something else.

But I said, there's no way the president can deal with all these matters.

Then I used, I said, for example, I said, this is one that keeps coming up and the president uses it.

It's a horrible example.

He used it in talks with Bob Dole the other day, which is the whole question of Ecuadorians in the votes.

You know, this kind of stuff comes up and the president doesn't want to be bothered with it.

But he did something on Ecuadorian tuna boats.

The first thing he does is call Mandrian and Ray Sullivan and say, God damn it, I did tuna boats.

You people have got to take care of them.

I'm not going to be concerned making decisions on tuna boats.

I said, you made exactly that point to Bob Doble in explaining how we should function as national charity.

And it won't because that's a little head pushing it.

And I pretended I didn't know that.

I just said, yeah, I just said it as an example.

I think he said, well, I don't see that.

He said, as a matter of fact, if you're going into the votes, it's one that I'd like to solve myself.

I think it's one where we can make some progress on.

I'm going down to the OAS.

I think I can get a word done.

Well, the other thing is the state has got to solve a lot of things without having everything cleared by Henry now, Bob.

They've got responsibilities.

And Bill is right about this.

Henry does tend to process too much.

You know, everything goes in.

Jesus Christ, even if I see a bitch back from Cyprus, he gives me two bitches.

Now, for Christ's sake, that's not necessary.

You don't need to have a guy spend the day doing it.

He said that is where everything's wrong.

You should have seen it.

It was a problem with Kevin because it was almost at the end.

It was a thing.

That kept the paper close and tabs and all that.

It was something coming to you, an action of paper.

The action part of it on the top was I think 17 pages or something with the proof.

This was roughball.

It had to do with

relay transistors manufactured by Nicaragua or something like that.

There's an international green country or something that does have computers.

And they have pictures of these relays, you know, color pictures.

And I sent it back and said, Henry, this is a, Henry sent it back to me.

I said, this is a prime example of, you know, the kind of thing where we run into problems.

How in the world?

The President doesn't even know this kind of transistor exists, I'm sure.

And there's no reason on earth why he should.

And I said, if there's really something that you need a presidential decision on, why don't you just say what you recommend on the top page and let them say yes or no?

And forget all the backup crap, because it's just been a hard line.

Something like that.

And it should have.

But I wrote a little note and sent it back to the crew.

There was a big sack of stuff running in there.

I just wrote the top of it and sent it back.

It was sort of the epitome of that kind of stuff.

The point is...

But that's what a staff is for.

Now our domestic staff is doing a lot of that, you know.

And now it's come down, and I've got this down and stuff now where I really, as you said, I'm now thinking a hell of a lot more about the important, less about the urgent.

Although he still sends his stuff back to John, to the domestic people.

But not Randall Adams.

They're John, John Flanagan, Fred Flanagan.

And once in a while they send you something with a fairly thick name and say, you know, you don't have to read.

They have it there in case you want it.

So that's going to be with yours.

One thing about it, if you've done anything, you're going to have to think sometimes, but you're going to have to read it out.

Along the Henry and Michael, we've got a problem.

You're absolutely right.

The main thing about Henry is that he's loyal, whereas the State Department is not.

And, frankly, Rogers and the Social Service are always in his way.

He's loyal.

Don't you agree?

He's in his way.

And he wants us to succeed.

Sure he does.

And his motivation for all of what he was talking about is trying to figure out better ways of doing things.

Oh, but he had not sent a service that he'd made to me.

I don't know about any side of him that I was sending him through.

And I say, but then Henry, he couldn't set up a paper, or a nissen, or a wesson, for every goddamned illusionist thing that happens.

You know, he had too many leaves.

They go on and on and on and on about crap.

Now the West, on Vietnam, that is important.

But you see, if he does it with others, then it's not.

In fact, I don't know what the hell he's going to do.

We're going to have to see.

He's got to figure out something.

We've been through it.

We've been finished on it.

You should have activities for the sake of having them.

Well, the sake of having a colony of them, too.

Can you enter in this pane?

Can you give up all of your days?

Just one thing.

Uh, can you come in?

Okay.

Well, uh, Friday is, because we have the ICB battery, planning a, uh, trip to Friday.

This Friday.

I'll see you right after

We've got a building that's taken up by Shakespeare's sit-in.

He told me to have a sit-in.

You know, he's loyal to us.

But he had something that he wanted me to do.

I didn't have one, that's what I'm saying.

I'm going to have one Wednesday.

Wednesday is off.

Wednesday and Thursday is off next week.

So, I'm off Friday of next week on Speaker Carl.

Next week?

No, Friday .

Well, it says breakfast with Senator Mansfield on here.

Yeah.

Shouldn't be.

It's supposed to always be done on time.

So the question mark has to be very well set up.

It says speaker Albert and a clock.

Now that's actually not so wrong.

You're right.

It is a trademark, right?

That's what we're working on.

I want you to have the NSC meeting.

I want you to have the NSC meeting this Friday.

What's that?

This Friday.

Let us see a little higher, because there's no preparation.

All right.

And we've all spent this week on the annual report.

I've seen the NSC meeting one day, and I'll give them a report on the Laotian thing.

Well, we're probably going to get the feel of what the real meaning of the NSC is in that certain country.

I need some parking.

Have a Tuesday.

Have a Tuesday right after the campaign meeting.

Fair enough.

Okay, Attorney General.

Is that on that?

Medals of Honor, I see on there, too.

There's not a lot on that.

What about the academic song?

Yes, there is.

Now the one two weeks after that also bothered him.

That one has to be for March 9th.

I don't know when.

I know that's a change in season.

You do it on the 16th.

You have to have one two weeks after the second.

So what's the 16th?

You don't have to consider it.

That day of the hour is the 16th.

Do it the same day as the cabinet meeting.

The 16th.

That's it.

I'm putting this on the wrong cycle, this one.

It's getting back the same day as the cabin.

Well, is there no way you can have it this time?

No, I'm checking on that.

Well, I'll figure what you're doing.

Push the NST.

Don't do it once.

Push the NST to the following Monday, then the E. That's better.

Is that all right?

You got that?

Nothing.

It's a swap.

I have to wait.

Huh?

Until Monday morning.

8 o'clock.

See?

Monday the 8th.

Yeah.

Or 8.

8.30.

That's better.

You don't want to do it to the following.

That doesn't matter.

We'll do it to the following Tuesday.

You don't understand.

I said it wouldn't happen.

About two weeks.

Yeah.

Why?

Why can't you?

The two weeks following.

On the 22nd.

It's the one.

Ten of me now.

The one-on-one.

Oh, fine.

Well, then have it on Tuesday.

No, have it on Wednesday.

Oh, Wednesday.

Oh, Wednesday should keep it clear then.

No, on Thursday then.

Thursday's all right that week.

Yeah, Thursday the 25th.

Okay, Thursday two days.

Thursday the 25th.

Thursday two weeks.

See?

The 25th is going to be clear now since I understand.

Monday's the bad day.

That gives you a week to prepare.

And it's, rather than pushing it off to Tuesday, having it the same day as a captain, not so good.

It's not a good idea to bring the same people in twice.

I think that's a lot of personal problems.

Get it done.

Get it done at 8 to 9.30, and then we will have a good time.

All right.

I, uh, I, uh, uh, uh, uh,

Well, I wonder.

That is really a blow, Mr. President.

I know.

It's a blow.

Because I used to know about it.

It's a blow.

It's too bad.

So, like, it was the general's horse.

It's pretty tough.

And he was sad.

But the second is the man that temporarily is the commander of the 25th Division, who's good.

Yeah.

But, you know, it's like when Lombardi dies, you say Austin is good.

I know.

And something intangible gets lost.

Uh, and now they're putting the man who was in charge, Bunker sent me a fact journal saying that Q had nominated the man he had in charge of Saigon and who was his top man to take over for Tree.

And that Abrams and Bunker think that's the best general now available.

So, uh, uh,

But that is going well.

The last thing we've got here is quite a few guys.

You've got a key.

You can't depend on one man.

Or you're not one at all.

The guy was terrific.

Remember I told you yesterday the North Vietnamese were marching in Cambodia.

And he jumped right over them and took a town way behind them.

He just operates like that.

So now that concentration has broken up and he's done absolutely spectacularly in that area.

Maybe that's why I wondered if the 2nd Command, maybe he was inculcated with a little of the same thing?

That's...

I don't know.

It's...

I know that as you say, there's nothing...

Nothing to do with acres, which has something to do with that planning too, isn't it?

Oh, yeah.

We don't have any help.

I think acres is fine, and it's behind a hell of a lot of these things.

And Davidson, the commander of 3rd Corps, is a good one.

the man who, our commander, of the military region, to be the counterpart of three, is the best general we've got there next to April.

So I think we've got good backup there.

Now, I had a session with Westmoreland this morning.

I asked him to come in, and there's the old commander.

I had to make him feel good.

I wanted to get his assessment.

Westmoreland thinks that

With any sort of ability and luck, there's no question that we can hold the North of England.

He does make one poem, which I think I told him to put to Mora to transmit to Adrian.

He thinks we shouldn't get mesmerized by Chipotle.

No.

And he's afraid that Abrams may feel that he's committed to you.

Hell!

That is the plan.

To go to Chipotle.

And none of the briefings of the press has created that.

That's right.

Because if we keep these roads cut, and if we... How about getting another governor to read this morning to marry the one that's still open?

It's 23.

Oh, that 234, now that we can cut, that will be cut in a week, but that is really not that important.

Well, Westmoreland Fields, that he thinks is normal.

What he's worried about, yes, and I also have a message here from Duncan.

That's all I want to know.

I don't give a damn what the rules are about.

Well, let me read you that one paragraph, because that answers the question.

He said, we both and the neighbors and he, having seen few as we have, came away feeling that there's no question about the TVN's steadiness and their determination to see the operation through.

Both Q and VN express confidence in their troops, saying that in quality they were superior to the North Vietnamese.

General Sutherland, commander of 24th Corps, that's our commander up there, has expressed admiration for the skill with which General Lam is conducting the operation.

General Abrams concurs.

Both Q and VN expect heavy fighting to develop.

anticipate that the Arvin will take significant losses, but are confident of inflicting much heavier damage on the enemy.

In short, I think that both Q and VN are looking at the problem realistically, recognizing that the enemy is firing strongly, but confident in the ability of the Arvin to achieve its objectives.

That is essentially a long-term relations plan.

They are now

The Arvin briefer is trying to get his instructions from us every day.

They're sending a new briefer to the first floor, a new Arvin briefer.

They're giving a concession.

We should have thought of that all before.

He said our briefers will meet daily with their GVN counterparts to instruct them.

On our side we will have a senior military officer give the press a rundown of the extended nature of the operation, emphasizing the positive aspects in terms of results.

Then our press officers are discreetly feeding selected correspondence material designed to show that the operation is making progress.

A tour of Saigon-based bureau chiefs and correspondence to Military Region 1 and a visit to 1st Arvin Division fire base

20 kilometers inside Laos, conducted on February 21, has been highly successful, and we plan to continue these visits.

They did send somebody in the box.

Right.

That's already been done.

Right.

This was done as a result of your orders.

That's been rebutted so much.

That's right.

And these are the bureau chiefs, so they are getting on top.

Did you find out who the AP guy was?

No, but I'm sure.

Well, understand that they're not the truth.

That's one thing, but...

In all wars, reporters lie in order to make stories.

And they did in the Civil War, they did in the Civil War.

It was unbelievable.

They were just trying to keep up with the Civil War's needs.

Of course, they lost them, and Japan lost them as well.

Did you see the loosely thing about you that you presented in the trade tradition?

I went over to my room, the Lincoln City room, and on the little desk there, beside me, there were five boys bringing their top books.

Just at the top of their sandbags.

Civil War.

At some point, it's the Civil War.

Newsweek said a leading European salesman said he was... Was this in Malsop's car?

No, it wasn't in Newsweek's car.

Malsop has now the British players coming this way.

and said that President Nixon is a statesman in the grand tradition and we all look for him, privately, of course.

Who is that?

This is a word assumption.

They had it in the newspaper in a very favorable

basically a very favorable account of what was it, Oslo?

Oslo, yes.

But why did they put him in service, Heath?

Well, Heath wouldn't say privately.

Could it be Pompidou?

Could it be...

I think it doesn't sound like an Italian.

Could it be Heath?

But that's the way they do it.

Well, we've got to throw that out there.

I've got to say something.

Detective Knox and none of the gunmen will be certain to press this fratting, compare fratting, and try to prove this provenance.

And, of course, it is legitimate news if they're losing.

Let's face it.

It is legitimate news.

My view is, are they fighting well?

If they're fighting well, Henry, we've got an inning.

The President's belly, the part that I think that I made the last is very important.

These guys in South Vietnamese are trying to become Americans next, this summer, and next, at the end of the year.

I'm not a Democrat, so it's up to them to draw on my 73.

We can do that.

We can do that provided.

except for the prisoners, but nobody is going to want to withdraw.

If they agree, we've got the prisoners.

If they agree with the prisoners, every American will support a chief of 50,000 Americans.

Mr. President, I think one reason I would like Haig to go out there later is violently opposed to Haig going out.

But you're asking... Well, he's cutting off... Why is he opposed?

Because he thinks it shows lack of confidence in Haig.

Well, maybe this is wrong.

Well, but I have to say two things about it, Mr. President.

We've got everything on the line here, and Abrams' feelings are less important than that the thing goes right.

Quite honestly, Abrams' feelings aren't going to help you if he does a crazy thing in Chipotle, because he doesn't understand what we're really after.

But secondly, what I'm most anxious for now, after what Dobrynin said to me yesterday,

I consider that Hanoi Overture extremely ungrateful, but I'll send a message here, and I'll say I'm sending it because we frankly need it for the PR to get so that he can come back and speak with authority here for one of the PR issues that we think, and I know exactly what to say to him, that I have every confidence in.

But what I'd like to do is to check with Parker what the traffic will be.

You see, I have always thought that we should go this year to the North Vietnamese and tell them we'll get everybody out in 15 months in return for a total ceasefire for that period of the crisis.

But frankly, it's six months too early.

I thought we should do it after the election.

That's right.

That's 15 months from now.

But if we had an agreement, it doesn't really matter.

Let me ask this.

Where does it, where does everything stand now?

Do I understand that it would be with regard to a letter of agreement to Ducosigan?

If I sent a letter to Ducosigan.

Now, what I have done is.

It's a suggestion.

Now, I have given a draft letter to Ducosigan.

Yeah.

Which Ducosigan will approve.

Yeah, do that.

Then if he approves it, then we'll know what his answer will be, too.

He will give me a copy of his answer and I'll let it down.

That's the reason it's sharp as a tack, the way he edited that letter of yours.

Actually saying that now, the point is, having done that, then we get it back.

We just bring in the people and say, look, here's what I do.

If they accept our proposal, you're going to have more trouble with it.

Smith will tell you they won't accept it.

Sorry.

I've taken an initiative here, and I'm going to do it.

That's that.

I'm not going to screw it.

Today they have another story that they make me back off.

I saw that.

It's going to hurt me again, Mr. Franklin.

Screw them.

That doesn't make any difference.

The law on this whole thing is we have a section on salt.

Yeah, but I yielded and for the sake of peace with Rogers, I yielded on it.

It was frivolous.

Well, because I don't want to come to you... No, but how much did you have something for you to take the whole section of salt?

Oh, no, but I took out much of it, and it's pure mischief.

They had me on the phone ten times in one day, and then they demanded to see you.

I didn't want to put you in the position where you would have to rule either for me or for Rogers, because I don't think it's the right position for you to be in.

Hold on.

I do want you to find out, I mean, I really want to know the source of that leak, you know, the one about the backing off of this position, because, you know, I really think that has to be named, and I want to call her on that.

Fair enough.

It wasn't in our status to talk about television.

But would you just say, well, look, it really is.

Ziegler has to answer it.

I just really want to know what the hell the story is.

I mean, it's really tough.

That one is to me, at least.

Because I didn't know we backed off of the position, but apparently...

And we had taken, he's taken the section out.

And, or at least this is an actual part of it.

So there is a back down, and everybody's going to notice it.

And the point is, now that it was done and worked out, why in the hell was some son of a bitch in the state?

I want to know, and I want somebody's head.

Fair enough.

Get the reports.

Don't worry about it.

It's on Berlin.

The deal there, it's all in-channel, so don't worry about that.

The Berlin deal, the only pity is you won't get the credit.

Well, let's try.

Let's leave a story.

But we can leave it.

I'll tell you, when we get these after the agreement is signed.

No, I don't want it before.

I want it before the agreement is signed.

Before the agreement is signed.

I'm going to leave a story that we're doing.

Screw it.

We've got to leave stories that we... Why don't we leave it now?

Well, because it's too early.

But this is going to be obvious long before there's a signature.

We'll have plenty of opportunities.

When do you think we're going to come off?

Depending on how quickly we can move, the Germans will turn too much.

All right.

Send a letter to a messenger from Russia to say that he should indicate that the President is playing a personal role in these negotiations.

To who?

The Prince.

Let me start with some background.

The President is personally in charge of these negotiations.

I think, Mr. President, if we could wait a week until we get some answers.

All right.

Otherwise, if it fails, as soon as you get the answers and you think it's on stream,

having put out the fact that the President is personally unhappy and put it out is much better than having it come from here.

Because at this point... Then you see, then you can, then there's been people, other people in the government, they can't claim they did it, but I want them to know that people... Because at this point, Mr. President, we are not...

This is not like Saul.

Saul, you can make one big play, and they'll accept it or not.

On Saul, my view on that is that if they come back and accept this thing, they may.

If they come back and accept it, then my view is that...

I just called in.

Well, I've got to have this on.

I just sent it in two times.

What do I do?

Do we have an NSV meeting tomorrow?

Or just have it?

Well, I called in Rogers and Smith, and I'd say I'd thought about it.

Actually, the New York Times yesterday had an editorial suggesting you write a letter to procedure.

Yeah.

So you said before they go, you want to break the deadline.

And this is the letter you're going to write.

Now, Smith is going to have a heart attack at that point.

Smith, I'm going to write this to Rogers.

And he just tells Smith, and that's it.

That's the way it's going to be.

That's better.

I think the drug is wrong.

I can say that I have strong feelings about this.

And I can get layered aboard.

I'm so sick of Smith anyway.

I don't like him.

I don't trust him.

But I think we can get layered aboard.

The only thing that's going to cause trouble, there's two things that are going to cause trouble.

One, they can't serve us.

That's why they didn't want the long salt section, because they didn't want to get you...

The section is long, but not as deep as it was.

But it's not important.

They don't want you to get the credit for it, but they can't say that.

The second thing they won't want is the change in the position on the ABM, because they'll say the Russians won't accept it.

But Laird goes back to that.

I've already talked to Laird, because we couldn't do it without Laird.

Well, go ahead.

But to show you something of the flavor of the green and then I gave him the letter who could see him.

He didn't say I have to refer that to Moscow.

He said that too.

But he immediately started editing it to see what would be easier for them to take and what wouldn't.

I had a section in there about moves and he said why don't we both drop that one.

It's embarrassing for you, and he's got a good point.

I had him to let him move.

We'll be permitted.

He said, of course, we'll be permitted.

I'm sorry.

Joseph Maurer?

No.

Probably the best general.

in the Civil War.

However, in the White House of Washington, the name of Joseph Anthony Mauler meant nothing in particular to a rather ordinary division of the Corps of Command.

Mauler was Hanan, one of the strangest personalities of the war.

No Westwater, a Mexican war volunteer private.

In September of 61, he commissioned a captain.

He so fought and marched with his men that in August of 64, he was made Major General of Volunteers.

rough, irascible, hairy six-footer, swearing in his dark, tawny whiskers, quote, you always have to look for him in the front lines, said other officers.

He never spoke of himself, said Sherman, who had at the dock reserve a better soldier or a braver man had ever lived.

He never spoke of himself.

Over and again, Grant and Turner would use Maurer as a snagging tool.

They could count on him to bore in and crack an enemy line.

He had a marvelous instinct for holding his men, letting the enemy index himself in pieces against his rifle fire.

Then with the precision that he could split a second, he yelled, charge.

The reports were monotonous.

General Maurer drove the enemy two miles.

He rode a few letters, the same perilous indistinction.

Several successive sets of his staff officers were killed in action, trying to keep pace with him.

From a work of clean, clear, and observable approach, Confederate forces, on Sherman's request, marred Minot Reeves and hurriedly joined up with a force marching Savannah.

In the form of a droidic march of men, he led them through rain and mud, through icy, deep waters, taking the punishments of bad weather and outdoors saving his troops.

His fellow officers could hardly find words to describe how soberly he had with the men in the push.

He bestowed a catchy swan song.

One of the greatest of American soldiers, he was also one of the many valorous, picturesque unknowns.

A grim, silent man with a contempt of either death or fame.

Had Lincoln known Maher, he would no more have worried about Sakahashi and the German, who emphasized, as to Maher, he never spoke of himself.

They're his best, beautiful women.

That's what you ought to just look down on General Joseph Maher.

Tell these guys we want the people up there with the Laotians to handle themselves like power.

They don't need to be spectacular and move around and so forth.

They're not going to conquer.

But if they can hold there on that damn route... Mr. President, if they can hold on this route without advancing, actually, they'll be in Chiffon anyway in April because the other side will appear to stand the gas.

But we don't need Chiffon.

What we need are the roads.

And one of the things... You know, it's an interesting thing.

that Henry had in the early times.

He had an unbelievably dishonest piece when he said that President Hu has added a, quote, new reason for the justification for the invasion of Laos.

In other words, that the North Vietnamese were girding themselves for an attack into the four northern provinces.

Good God!

We've always said that.

That wasn't a new reason.

That was part of the original reason.

I said it so every newsman the day of the invasion.

Well, look, but it's Packers' Soul Week.

Packers' Soul Week on Earth.

You said it.

And as you said this morning, those four divisions weren't there to look at the scenery.

God, they were there.

They're going to attack.

They were going to attack.

That's why we went in.

And the appointment, you know, it's a...

They're just cramped.

But you think they're doing better.

They think the 21st is any of that and getting in the papers yet or the reports on the TV.

But for all the evidence that was in this morning who said, I'm praying for you, you're doing the right thing.

I believe him.

I think he is.

Is he right?

I think he doesn't make any difference.

He's not a reporter.

He's a columnist.

But Rowley said... Is he getting the feel of this?

Yeah, he said, hold tight.

He said, all these guys are now killing you.

He said, avoid optimistic comments now.

That's true.

He's got a good point.

He said, if the thing works, all the guys are now knocking, you will look silly.

If it doesn't work, you only compound your problems by having been optimistic.

And, no, he's very positive.

I think it used to be very cool.

Not to be optimistic or pessimistic.

Rowley said this president has more guts than any president he's known.

And for him, as an old Kennedy friend, to say that is...

Fantastic.

The thing we've got to do is to be very careful with all our words.

Well, Leonard has played that well.

I thought maybe he was going to be too pessimistic.

Maybe he wasn't.

He said, we've got some time.

He asked me, how were you?

Were you worried?

I said, look, the president in crisis is very serious.

How about that?

What should he say?

I think he should say, we are trying, about what I said this morning, we're cutting the LOCs.

Yeah.

And not to say I'm not here to be bothering you, this is a war.

We might have some other, but with the South Vietnamese up to this point are fighting well.

But the idea that we're tied down in the roads and so forth, I wouldn't worry about the day-to-day accounts of that.

Jesus Christ, you're always here.

The first day of coming to Gettysburg was very pessimistic, wasn't it?

Mr. President, the North Vietnamese, the fact that they haven't complained yet about these strikes in the North... Why do you want to say this?

There's two places now, but two.

I think we ought to take out two.

But then we ought to go 20 kilometers inland because they're piled up all along the roads leading into the... Just be very, very sure they're there.

I don't want to hear from a bombing raid.

No, I've seen the pictures.

Oh, yeah.

A hundred trucks in one place, piled, crates stacked up.

Well, which did we get?

Oh, Mutriya and Pankarai, we take the same heat for power.

And go no more than 30 kilometers, that's 18 miles there.

Otherwise they'll spill over to the coast again.

And that they shouldn't do.

And do it in one day and get it over with.

And call the strike to stay?

Call it protective reaction.

Or hell, they can call it anything they want.

They were eating sand sites.

Well, and the devil works.

Sand sites.

This was the enemy buildup that the president has referred to, which would threaten our remaining forces, and we're simply knocking it out.

I have some conservative columnists whom they want me to greet.

Don't worry about the power.

Blood doesn't mean it was always focused on himself.