Nixon, Haldeman & Butterfield on Foreign Trade Policy and Vietnam War

5:57except on items that I select and know what I want.
6:34and say, which one of these do you think there might be a little color, and then mark a couple, then let the guy come in for those.
6:43And then we bring them in right Friday and let them grow.
6:50And then we'll set up the others.
6:56Okay.
6:57Let's do it again.
7:01Okay.
7:01Okay.
7:05Yeah, just .
7:05He doesn't know what to do.
7:07Well, he's concerned about running loose, which they are.
7:15Bit by bit, we're in a foreign trade policy position that we don't intend to be in.
7:26We're getting issues .
7:34and just wants to be sure we're looking at it in terms of what we're doing.
7:41Because each department is running its stuff in on G's and some of the stands on G's.
7:47It's all supposed to come true now.
7:50That's what I'm telling you.
7:51We've got to find a way to sit down and you've got to have it run through so it's all part of whatever it is we're intending to do.
8:00And go ahead and beat it.
8:02Scott, you've got to call in Rogers Kissinger, the director.
8:07I was asking how to get his nuts out of his tracks.
8:21He said he has a very good deal of it.
8:26He's quite a sharp guy.
8:30What does he know about this?
8:32He doesn't know.
8:33He just gets along with both.
8:36He sees that Rogers is rational and that Henry is not.
8:43I think he...
8:45I don't think you have to take science in that route.
8:48You have to recognize it.
8:52Like he said, I had a problem with Roger's body.
8:55Henry had told me he had his body activity and all that stuff.
9:03But I figured, I just called and said Bill, we're going back and forth on this thing and it seems to me we're making a mistake.
9:11So Bill, when he finished, Bill said, as a matter of fact, I think you're right.
9:17And he was very satisfied that it had been a constructive conversation.
9:23So that's exactly the way that he would have done it.
9:26He's a perfectly honorable man.
9:28So I think we can just lay on the line and do our argument.
9:47It's hard to deal with a person who you don't know about.
9:51As loyal as he is to us, he's goddamn hard to have to deal with in the administration.
9:59Just got to have a situation where it's just very bad.
10:08Not going to take anybody, even Hay or Moore or Blair, anybody else coming in.
10:16I thought we were having both of those things or something.
10:43Good morning.
11:16I said, you don't need to come back and call me at 9.05.
11:20I have the meeting done this way at 9.35 or so.
11:27I said, well, I tell 9.35, 9.40, I suppose.
11:30But Bob, he's, I'm contesting him.
11:33He's a good read for the first time.
11:37I don't think he's going to be the second time.
11:41Because I think people get on to him and all that bullshit, you know what I mean?
11:50And it's going on and on and on.
11:51He just will run just when you take him off.
11:55on something, he gets mad.
11:57Because he takes it as a person, you know, that you're challenging his integrity or his intelligence or something.
12:03What you're challenging is the mind.
12:05That's not what you're challenging at all.
12:08You're just trying to go into the thing.
12:11You're just trying to work on it.
12:27They're not really here on that.
12:33I don't know what they do.
12:49There's nothing.
12:51You don't want them.
12:55Yeah, we don't want that to be the overriding.
13:02I'd like to avoid it.
13:03I mean, if there is, I've got to be there when it's done.
13:07And I'd just like to go there.
13:15I'd like to support us.
13:17It needs to be real.
13:18And I'll let the veterans allow us.
13:28What was the, uh, what was the, uh, what was the movie draft or something?
13:30Yeah, that's right.
13:30Oh, I don't know.
13:31I got it from Calvert.
13:32Oh, Calvert?
13:33Yeah, he was in Calvert.
13:37Yeah.
13:37Yeah.
13:37What about ours?
13:37Ours?
13:38I think one of theirs.
13:38It was in the South Vietnam.
13:42Well, was it?
13:44Mm-hmm.
13:44It wasn't in Cambodia?
13:48I'm going to say over South Vietnam.
13:50I think probably, probably what I think it was was...
14:01I put a memorandum in there about the
14:29Craig, you know, I'm just burnishing.
14:32I want you to get...
14:35And I told Alex, he's got to get these things that I put in that list.
14:39I don't want to get lost.
14:40Four days later, he said he does.
14:42So anyway, he'll probably, he's got to get them.
14:43Or he'll get them.
14:43And I guess if he were, I don't know, he would have heard it or something.
14:47I didn't get a hold of him.
14:48But I did today.
14:49He called me.
14:50And I'm just supporting this up there.
14:53You know, the options, the lines, the economy.
14:57There are burns over there.
15:00I've got economy coming up.
15:07You've got through the burden, so you're in conversation with him.
15:12Yeah, I know I made my point.
15:15Arthur's point is, it's very strongly substantial.
15:19He was through by then.
15:23His thing on confidence was way in the middle of the speech, or his testimony, and it was making a point.
15:31He wasn't watching.
15:34But I think...
15:36I don't know.
15:37He's trying to get off the hook.
15:43All right.
15:44Nevertheless, you've got to shake him up.
15:46He knows very well that you were very disturbed.
15:48You don't know.
15:49That's not the way.
15:50It's that sort of thing.
15:52You know, the kind of thing that affects the market, for example, from so much.
15:57And I mean, so I...
16:06It's that kind of statement.
16:10That was the main item that came out, that Saturday statement.
16:15That big money sale to the market, this has an enormous effect.
16:19I've heard it's more effective than anybody else.
16:23Because he hasn't dropped some 10 points yesterday.
16:27He didn't, he didn't, he didn't.
16:29He has enormous pressure.
16:38It's important that you get in.
16:49Do I have to?
16:55and the best retired officers are 60 to 65, and the best retired chief executives have come in at 60 to 65.
17:02Well, I just want him to know how strongly I feel about him, and I should make it real and have him think it out.
17:08So when he comes in, I will get close to him on the side, okay?
17:13I worked out a business team, and I don't know if I can get a word on this.
17:19It just doesn't work to have somebody be in there every time.
17:26So I worked it out with Alex.
17:27He used to check the thing every day.
17:34If they caught one or two items, they may have some covering or something.
17:39And on those, the writer could fit with them.
17:43See?
17:46And that's that.
17:47But if I, like today, I see John Waters at that place.
17:50I don't know anybody in the room.
17:51I see John Waters at that.
17:55This is the governor of Arizona.
17:58I don't want you to find her.
18:01Let's see.
18:02You're about to report.
18:03Understood.
18:03Now, there's another.
18:04You're as aware as anybody of when there is something.
18:06If there is, tell us.
18:10Just say, in that name, let's see.
18:15Just tell them how it was, and ask if they can find your transcript.
18:18I don't want any transcripts.
18:19No, not even transcripts.
18:22Tell them to go back and listen to it and just make notes on it.
18:24As if you had been sitting here making notes, all right?
18:28That's all right.
18:29But he must do it if he understands that it's going to be...
18:34So we'll never lose anything.
18:38Once a month, maybe, I can tell them, you know, just tell them to get the thing back on that way.
18:48It isn't working uncomfortably either way.
18:52And that's right.
18:53For instance, the guy that was doing the, I don't know which, oh, it was John Andrews, was doing the sports...
19:01you know, the physical fitness much.
19:04And you had superb things.
19:07And the overall thing was even more so going down that receiving line.
19:12And they put some of those out.
19:13The one that really got some mileage and is a damn worthwhile thing was that tennis guy who's scoring a system of them.
19:21I don't know.
19:22I didn't know what he was talking about.
19:24I already wrote this work.
19:27But you made some crack around it.
19:29There was a great interplay between his wife and you.
19:31About it took us nine years to get people to accept this.
19:35And you had something about who you know what the problem is.
19:39There was a great interchange.
19:42And it got played.
19:43Yeah, sure.
19:44This kind of thing.
19:45Sure.
19:52Okay.
19:53That's good.
19:54Well, I'm glad we got some of you in.
19:58Tree Stopper was South Vietnamese and went down due to a mechanical problem in South Vietnam.
20:04Probably was sabotaged.
20:07I guess he was leaving yesterday.
20:16Yeah.
20:39I didn't know, sir.
20:40But I would like to do this.
20:42Of course, that may be not a fine conversation.
20:45Well, he didn't say it that way, though.
20:48See?
20:48It's a handful of people.
20:53You've got to say that you welcome your views and all that, sir.
20:56But you don't throw in the sponge in advance.
20:59That's my point.
20:59It's a very...
21:00The comment was all right.
21:01I saw it.
21:02It's...
21:03He simply said, I'm here to say that we've got all the answers, but we think this is a good start.
21:10We all said, and he went for it.
21:14Well, that very instance, the bird in the library, we all thought a couple of these.
21:19Not all these talking was, it's early administration.
21:22He mentioned that it's been all in Sanchez's office that he made a statement about exactly the office of the council of economic advisors.
21:34He obviously got a state grant, but we have simply got to find a way, and I don't know how to do it, to get more discipline.
21:43I wonder if Connolly isn't the guy to tell these cabinet officers that they have a responsibility for
21:54The other thing is discipline in terms of weeks and so forth.
22:01That's all I understand, gentlemen.
22:02I mean, when he has his room, when he has his, is the vice president set up that day after we got that set up?
22:09He's setting it up after every one day he's set up.
22:13We ought to talk about it, and then we ought to stop this.
22:19The back-fighting, I'm taking back-fighting, back-fighting between departments, police, which are cadets present, and second, and third.
22:31just getting people to all take the same lines, and that cabin officers have more discipline than their people, and that they're all responsible, and the convoy can sit around and say, look, I was doing a collection of the convoy about this or not, where you want to talk, talk to them about the rest of the stuff in there, and just follow them on this, and understand, yeah, the convoy, I get this talk, and I labor him to talk, and at the dinner, it's only cabins.
22:59That's right.
23:02Okay, we're going to set up another dinner for the senior staff.
23:17It feels strong.
23:18It's going to take them some time.
23:21You know, it might not be as long as it takes, but he's up testifying every day.
23:32And he doesn't refuse to go.
23:32They all want to hear him.
23:35It's a cursory standing performance to go up.
23:49Are we all setting off from our drill this week?
23:56Radio 3 o'clock.
23:564-11.
24:01I think 11 is fine.
24:02I'll let it run all day.
24:07That's right.
24:08I forget about it.
24:09On radio through the day.
24:13All right.
24:17Good night.
24:20Good night.
24:29Good night.
24:31Or the, uh, the Bob Hope Party.
24:32Because we're on TV.
24:33It's a TV book.
24:33You can't, you know, film, read.
24:37And they've given Bob Hope a lot of material, uh, revenue sharing, that kind of stuff.
24:44So, you know, we're... Yeah, we've dealt with people who... Was that right?
24:50I was singing a little song.
24:53I said, you know, it's...
24:58He can't carry a hole to himself.
25:00He's got to have something.
25:00But he'll introduce now.
25:01I just want to introduce him.
25:04I'm not sure that's right.
25:07I want him to introduce himself.
25:13If you should introduce Holt and then let him know.
25:15Yeah, I just want to introduce Holt Hart.
25:24You know, I was thinking that I might, might give him a golf ball while I'm there.
25:29Maybe we can get a golf ball covering it with red, and I'd say, here's one for Vice President.
25:36That's a pretty good gag, isn't it?
25:39That is a gag, Vice President.
25:43That is a gag, that is a true gag.
25:53Just in case I want to go online.
26:04We have to get the...
26:07I don't know.
26:13I don't know.
26:22I don't know.
26:23I don't know.
26:31out there for this reason.
26:36You know, I'm being over that time and again, you know, trying to get involved in the police again.
27:19I'm a cohort.
27:20I'm keeping up on this myself, keeping up on things I should have done.
27:27But I don't think Reggie has a problem.
27:28He's a great leader of all, you know, of those negotiations and of the tariffs and all the tricks.
27:41All the time.
27:44He was wrong.
27:45He tried.
27:47But he was wrong in the sense of saying, well, they're jiggling or they're going to twitch or we can just go, you know, all that sort of thing.
27:57He's always felt that.
28:00It's last night.
28:17I said, no, it isn't.
28:19He's not.
28:20I got Tony, but it's no time.
28:23You see, the problem is that he is not a good negotiator.
28:29He just is not.
28:29He does not know.
28:31He does not know.
28:32We've got to keep him the hell out of that sort of thing because he's a negotiator just like he is for staff meetings.
28:42We just can't have a blowout, you know?
29:02and I am capable of with Rogers or Larry, for that matter.
29:04And once Conley gets in there, he can pull up again.
29:10I don't know, maybe it's just a matter of the present time, of course, moving around.
29:21We were about to stick you with it there, for instance, because on a plane down in Florida, Roger's sitting on the top of you, and he said, you know, he knows he should have it next year.
29:34He raised his hand yesterday.
29:37He said, we aren't going to give us all of you.
29:41the percent he thinks we have on.
29:44And, uh, therefore, we might as well forget that.
29:46We've got a little fuel summit next year.
29:48He raised it.
29:49That was over there for lunch yesterday.
29:51Personnel stuck with it.
29:52He raised that whole thing again.
29:55But, uh, the board said that he thinks the Russians will go along because they need it just as much as we do.
30:06They think that they're going to risk it.
30:11And I can't, you know, don't say anything to him about whatever he's talking about.
30:21It puts, I don't know, there's a problem there.
30:25It's a very difficult problem because I can't, in fact, these negotiations have been, you know, independent discussions here without Henry's content and Bobby's psychopathic about trying to screw Rogers.
30:39That's what it really gets down to.
30:42He wants to have a salt agreement and a ruin agreement, and I keep him out of the mid-east with Chris Montgomery, but he wants to do that without, so that,
30:57I don't think I overestimated the problem.
31:02It's very serious.
31:05Oh, it is.
31:05It's just goddamn hard.
31:06I mean, I can't agree.
31:07And we kept, you know, patching it over with band-aids, temporizing it, which we do.
31:15Maybe we can keep on doing that, though.
31:17But I'm not sure.
31:17It blurs up and down.
31:25The problem really is, though, at least I don't think so.
31:31If you face it, there's an insurmountable problem between the two of them.
31:37Henry is clearly, to me, he's more valuable than Rogers is.
31:41And more irreplaceable than Rogers.
31:44Sure, because I don't trust him.
31:48But if Henry wins the battle with Rogers,
31:53Resulting in a robbery, so I'm not sure if Henry's going to be livable afterwards.
31:56Livable when afterwards, you know, get the picture.
31:58And, uh, I remember too, that maybe for Henry to come to us is kind of what's on it.
32:07I really realize that.
32:16But it takes, it takes, he's right on a lot of things procedurally that don't interest you and aren't there for you.
32:23You don't want to be bothered by it to the extent it shouldn't be.
32:27That's right.
32:27He does have to do it in order to keep the thing up.
32:30Rogers, the other thing, one thing you want to raise with me, and Larry's got a metal in on it, and Rogers wants to concur on this, is that the nissons are being overdone.
32:41We do too many missiles and we do too much planning that never sees the light of day.
32:46And he doesn't feel that missiles should be issued until he and Blair have been consulted on the subject of them and there are the agreement on their part.
33:00Plenty needs to be done.
33:01Apparently Henry issues NISMs on his own conference without the concurrence of the secretary.
33:09He's hired a guy who could do, you know.
33:12But so I just do it to get my help.
33:15But some of the bills, I guess, did cost, I mean, one of the NISMs, as a result of the cost, the cost, it cost $6 million in time.
33:26charges against a thing that came out, most of which was done after a decision was taken.
33:39Well, let's look at this thing.
33:41I think we've worked it out with Henry.
33:44I think he's right.
33:45Henry does communicate.
33:46You know what he's doing.
33:47He's trying to make it work for his family.
33:51But it's also a control device.
33:54It's probably useful for that, but it's a question of how much control we've apparently had.
33:58I think they'll say 136 systems that we've been here or something like that.
34:02And some of them have been damn important and some of them have been ridiculous.
34:11Well, we're not aware of them right now.
34:14There's a committee review.
34:14I don't think it's you.
34:16I'm not sure.
34:16I don't know.
34:28He'd be irreplaceable.
34:31He'd be more irreplaceable than Bill.
34:33You've got to remember that Henry is a terribly difficult individual to have around, you know, in terms of our, I guess, our whole general morale.
34:50I mean, he just really is, but it's too damn bad to...
34:56Oh, so I think it's because of his psychotic hatred that he has for her.
35:04I mean, part of it I know he believes,
35:09He said, I don't want it, I can't go into it.
35:11Then he didn't mention it to me.
35:12He said, I can't go into it now, but Christ, if you didn't tell me, I should be worried about the things that you can't go into now.
35:21He just says, Steve, that would be it.
35:23Every day, something or other.
35:26We know about the way the state's cutting us up.
35:29The horrible things they're doing.
35:31And I find this a joke, but the Christ's a bit different, is that a thing?
35:38Well, they do something they gotta want you to get you out of today, I'm sure of it.
35:42Ever saw that story before?
35:44What happened to the State of Triumph over the NSC?
35:47Got the salt removed from the State of the World?
35:50Message.
35:51The pieces on which the salt comes through.
35:53What's that?
35:55The what?
35:56I thought it was the land.
35:57Crap.
35:58No, it's not a piece of news.
36:01I'm sure of it.
36:04Why don't you just send a man around to Rogers and just say that the President's on his team.
36:10He thinks this is not helpful.
36:13He says this makes the task of achieving more difficult.
36:17Really believe that you... Or why don't you call him?
36:19Say, look, that's a real tough thing.
36:22Now, we have enough arguments.
36:23Can you do anything about this?
36:24I wouldn't do such a thing.
36:27See, Rogers overlooks a lot of the hit-and-stand people, too.
36:30He will not miss a gun.
36:36There's a bigger goddamn thing that's going to result in the state of the world or not, you know.
36:42It's nobody gives a shit, except men.
36:44Sure.
36:44That's the point.
36:44So nevertheless, it kicks up really the softness.
36:46The soft stuff in there was about the only news there was in the whole time.
36:57I thought he may not, he may not see this, but people find the story and never miss it.
37:08I do think that, uh, I think you ought to call Roger's about that.
37:11I don't know.
37:12I just, just raised it, but this is a kind of a problem here, so what do you think?
37:15It comes right out of what was talked yesterday.
37:17Yeah, what do you think?
37:18Is this race a problem?
37:21And I do think this is just people looking pretty damn good that way, don't they?
37:24Yeah.
37:27Well, I don't know.
37:28I didn't want to fall last night.
37:37You know, it's a narcotic.
37:44It's a narcotic.
37:55You see, what I'm getting at Bob, did you ever read, did you ever read what Lincoln wrote during the Civil War?
38:04A little.
38:07Nothing, nothing.
38:10The press was bad, the generals were bad, everything was bad, everything was going to be told every time.
38:16And here he's coming in, he's going to be a social statistic, I don't know, he's going to be a staff agent.
38:26I mean, virtually, I mean, with the content making a crisis out of it being moldy, you know what I mean?
38:32I mean, well, it's not the right way to do.
38:35It's just, it's a, it's a, it's a, and also, we do not agree with this proposition that in terms of the breeding business and so forth, that, that Henry has not been effective in terms of the presidential bid.
38:55And it's a snobby decision to make.
38:59Pretty much so, but I don't think there is anybody else who can either drive you where they are.
39:06Well, even on the domestic side, no one has, except they are here helping so now.
39:10And how could, you know, Henry internally has just subverted that.
39:15If he could swallow his determination to move himself and get into someone else, he could do a hell of a job.
39:22He won't do it because he wants to prove himself before the press as being a scholar.
39:25On this governor's conference, then, you know, to see whether or not we want to have any...
39:36I mean, what's your reaction?
39:37It's not just that you're looking, but it's not just...
39:43One concern, the news, of course, is definitely a concern.
39:47The governors are concerned about their getting the money.
39:51Yeah.
39:52The news is concerned because they're totally in play.
39:57On the other hand, they're totally in play in deals with South Vietnam.
40:04You see the Dennis Warner piece?
40:07Yeah, the news summary.
40:08What do you think of that?
40:11I wonder if you can just get it back.
40:16Did I put a note on the run?
40:27Did I put a note on the run?
40:32I don't want to lie to you, but I think you got that.
40:41the congressman, Senator Gold .
40:52It's a bad story in the New York Times this morning.
40:58And I think we have to say something.
41:00I think really basically what they want to hear is
41:12that you are for revenue sharing, you're committed to revenue sharing, that they'll read a lot of stories, and there's the inevitable Washington Scuttlebutt to the effect that the president doesn't have his heart in this thing, and you just want to speak to them off the record so that they understood exactly where you were on this, that you've made a serious proposal, that you want action, that you're not looking for a campaign issue, and that regardless of what they may read or hear, you're in this thing all the way.
41:45He said what he did in the hopes that he could lure Humphrey into a co-sponsorship of our bill.
41:57And I said, well, I told him that, and I said, do you clear your testimony with John Connell?
42:05Because I had in mind what Connelly said here yesterday, so I followed him.
42:10And he said, well, no, this is so cut and dried that he just didn't clear it with the secretary.
42:15Now, I must say, six days ago, I talked to the secretary and said Weidenbaum should not testify anymore.
42:23And he said, I'll take care of it.
42:25No problem.
42:27And here he comes.
42:28Because I knew Weidenbaum was on the line.
42:31Why did Weidenbaum just try to say whatever he thinks would satisfy the senators?
42:37That's about the size of it.
42:39What he in effect said was that we are not really committed to this.
42:43What he said in effect was that we will accept changes.
42:48Now, as I just told him, maybe we will accept changes, but this is just the opening dance.
42:57out there saying we'll accept changes the first week out there's no question but at some point way down the line mills and you are going to sit down and there's going to be some conversation about whether there's a middle ground but i never talked about you just kind of got a little bit like i didn't want to go off yeah he's he realizes that he can't because i did it you know i said let's go throw in the ball yeah
43:20or the towel before the goddamn fight begins.
43:22Well, and Rockefeller was calling to get some signals.
43:25He says, what are we fighting for?
43:27And I said, we haven't moved.
43:29And he said, well, I saw this story in the paper.
43:32And I said, I just hung up talking to Wheaton Powell.
43:35And he was out of line.
43:35And I said, we'll be up there at 3.30 today, and we're going to set this thing right.
43:40And he said, well, that's fine.
43:42But what about the president?
43:43I said, the president will be up there today, too.
43:46And he's the one who set this thing right.
43:48And he said, hello.
43:50So he's satisfied for now.
43:55But we want to say we're for this program, no compromise.
43:59Oh, no.
43:59No, indeed.
44:00You want me to say it?
44:01I think just about the way I said it, that there's a tendency in Washington to play after we bump that track.
44:08They said we would not send any compromises in.
44:11But how do you answer that?
44:13Well, I'd say I'd answer this.
44:15I'd be to say, well, we're not going to talk about a compromise.
44:18We believe this is the best program.
44:20We've seen no of it, nothing.
44:22Exactly.
44:23We think we've examined every conceivable alternative.
44:29Now, we're not on a mission.
44:32Maybe there's an alternative we haven't thought of.
44:34But here's what we have thought of, and here's what's wrong with it.
44:39And that's the thing we'll do.
44:41Sure, sure.
44:42But...
44:46I think I ought to go last because I'm longer.
44:49And there will be a lot more questions.
44:53And he has limited time and I wouldn't want it to run into his presentation coming short.
44:57I want to ask him though if he will.
45:01He should.
45:02And he should firm it up.
45:04Firm it up.
45:10Oh, the alternative, I see nothing.
45:13Don't worry, I'll get that joke right in the head.
45:15See, Rockefeller said he's been out at Early House with the urban specialists this week.
45:21And John Briggs from Indiana came out, and two or three other Democratic congressmen.
45:26They said, well, the president made a hell of a presentation at breakfast.
45:29But, you know, the one thing that we still aren't comfortable about is whether he really wants action or not.
45:37And I said, well, Governor, the President said it in so many words.
45:42And he said, well, I'm just telling you that that's the tact they're taking, and they're trying to undermine you by arguing that you aren't really considered a spot in the general election.
45:54Didn't they say that about reference?
45:55They did.
45:56The welfare reform.
45:56The welfare reform, same place.
45:57Didn't they say that about everything we heard?
45:59Right.
45:59And you can... And they said it also about even ending war.
46:03You can anticipate it as so.
46:05By saying, you know, there's a funny thing happening around this town.
46:09A fellow puts a proposal out there, and the way they try and take the dirt out from under the foundation is by saying, well, they really don't mean it.
46:20You won't want to say it exactly that way, but that's the sense of the thing.
46:24You can forearm and go out.
46:26This brings us to the other question, and I think my answer is this.
46:34Bob and I talked about it a little.
46:36I do not believe we should give them anything except this domestic subject.
46:40I don't believe we should give them any background on Vietnam and vows and all that sort of stuff.
46:48The only one that could do it if we did it would be my son.
46:51But I do feel that they've got to have a little of that.
46:54I can do it, but I'm afraid that that would become the manner in which that would happen.
46:58I wouldn't even open it up.
47:00Wouldn't open it up.
47:01And I simply say, also, let's just play that like it is, and say, well, look, it's solved.
47:05It's operation.
47:06It's going all right.
47:10We're on withdrawal.
47:11It was on schedule.
47:12Period.
47:12If I were you, I wouldn't even mention the part of the world.
47:15No.
47:15No.
47:16I'm going to say we are here for a specific purpose today.
47:20In fact, we are here to ask your support for us in serving the government reorganization.
47:25And here's what we believe in.
47:28It's just crack, crack, crack, crack, crack.
47:30I'll hit it hard.
47:31I'll make a 10-minute talk.
47:33And I'll hit it damn hard.
47:34And I'll close the movie.
47:37This is about reforms and the result of which we get thrown out.
47:41The governor of Texas, this idiot Smith,
47:44is trying to get the rules changed up there so that he can introduce a resolution for total federal takeover of welfare.
47:52Rockefeller thinks he's got him blocked.
47:55What does that have to do with that?
47:58Oh, to eat up every dollar we've got flying around.
48:02That's what he's proposing.
48:04Lindsay's?
48:06Isn't that Lindsay's?
48:07Yeah, well, he's filing a lawsuit, you know, to, but see, that's a little different, Bob, because it's a city.
48:16And Lindsay's theory is if you can't pass welfare costs to cities, he doesn't care what it ends up with the federal government of the state.
48:22He just wants to get it off the city.
48:23Not very many cities have one fair life.
48:26Yeah.
48:28Rockford suggests that you slide by it by simply saying there's a confusion in some people's minds about welfare costs and revenue sharing.
48:41They are two entirely different subjects.
48:45And they have to be critically thought about, one as one subject with its relative advantages and disadvantages, and the other as another separate subject.
48:56There's a lot of fuzzy thinking about your business.
48:58You should say that.
48:59I will.
49:00I will.
49:01I don't think I should do that.
49:02Right.
49:02No, that fits very logically in the course of that comparison.
49:06Yeah, I think you should get into that.
49:08You get into this.
49:10I don't feel that I'm frankly loving up on that.
49:13Fair enough.
49:14The other minutiae that's going to be involved up here that you should not get into is the question of regional commissions.
49:23They are perfectly, yeah.
49:24You loaded for bear.
49:26I loaded for bear.
49:27You can say you can have your regional commission if that's the way you want to use your money.
49:32You have, as a matter of fact, see, we have sent a bill up advocating a one-year extension to the Appalachian Regional Commission to get you on record so that there's no confusion about where you stand on this.
49:44Well, I understand you've got it.
49:46And they're under revenue sharing, as I understand it.
49:49They don't continue unless the state is one of them.
49:52That's it.
49:53Exactly.
49:53Just like the Rocky Mountain Regional Commission is .
49:57Probably not.
49:58I hope not.
50:00The Rocky Mountain states have one that does not depend on federal legislation at all.
50:05They do.
50:06And they've gotten together and formed it.
50:09And they pull away resources.
50:10And that's the pattern that we think can be followed in the rest of the country.
50:15Will you cover the region?
50:16Yes, if I would love to.
50:18If I would not, I would get into it.
50:19I don't know.
50:19I just think I've got to say this is our program.
50:21It's well thought out and so forth.
50:25And I spent days and months on this program.
50:30I just keep saying your point.
50:31And Brock Barr is simply also reflecting the fact that Lizzie and all the other senators and presidents have been reporting this.
50:38He's running into this, you see.
50:39And he feels that we've got to run into it from the left.
50:42From the left.
50:43Well, how do we talk about that?
50:46What's the markets out there doing?
50:49Oh, we're just plastering the country.
50:51And what is that?
50:53Now, Connelly thinks we may be overselling.
50:55Do you think we are?
50:56No, I don't think that.
50:57I think this is evidence of it, that we're not overselling.
51:00But you see, the Democrats are in a vacuum right now.
51:03They have no good counterproposal.
51:06That wall-to-wall regional commission thing that they tried to fly over the weekend just fell flat as a pancake.
51:12Right, right, right.
51:13But what I'm getting at is this.
51:16So they're attacking in a number of different ways.
51:21I will say, I've got to call in for you.
51:27Well, particularly when you get stories like the Shanahan story out in Wheat Mound, that...
51:34Make it murky.
51:36You've just got to work that much harder to get the damn thing cleared up.
51:43What I'm going to do now is get Ziegler to make sure that we have good press coverage up there for the briefing so that our line gets across and gets carried.
51:54We'll be on to the press.
51:57You will not.
52:03I don't have much trouble with that, actually.
52:07The stuff that we're going to put on
52:32has been seen by the press.
52:34We put it on in substance here.
52:38They haven't seen the slides, but they've seen it.
52:40They've had the pitch.
52:42And so there's nothing new in that.
52:44You've got to get a hell of a problem with the press and the fact that I'm
52:52No, I haven't heard a breath of that.
52:54I think everybody's content to head you off the record.
52:57And I think it has more force off the record.
53:00You're not going out there to be insane for the press.
53:02You're going out there to tell the governor what you want them to know.
53:05You're doing it for the purpose of the governor, not for the purpose of the general public.
53:12And the press will get stirred up enough about the fact that you were there that...
53:17So what the plaintiffs have brought, so I'll read the press afterwards, on the president's coverage of governors, so we can build up the point of what he does.
53:29Because governors obviously are going to do it.
53:31Yeah.
53:34The other way, it's perfectly alright to have the whole thing off the record as far as I'm concerned.
53:43That's what I think.
53:46That's okay with me.
53:47I like the whole thing off the record.
53:49I can open it and then have Russ go about reading.
53:52That's what I would prefer.
53:53Alright.
53:54That's great.
53:58That's fine with me.
54:03We can be a little freer.
54:12Then let me make a suggestion, and that is that... That's Saturday.
54:16That's the way I have my remarks prepared constantly, to say that exact thing.
54:20Gentlemen, we're not here to abuse the governors, to support them.
54:26In order to make any... We're here to ask the governors to support us for action.
54:33That's the way I ran this talk.
54:36That's what we want.
54:37I agree.
54:38That's what we need.
54:39Well then, how about doing this as a follow-up?
54:42There'll be a lot of agitation for the content of the presentation.
54:49Supposing, maybe Thursday or Friday, Ziegler says, well Ari, if you come around Saturday, we'll put the slideshow on for you.
54:58And take questions.
55:00On recognition.
55:01So that you can see what it was that the president gave you.
55:05Then we've got to heighten the level of evidence.
55:08I don't want to put out just when I do something wrong.
55:20Put the whole damn thing out.
55:22I'm not in such a position to put it out.
55:24Where for where?
55:24I don't mind putting out two or three highlights of what I said.
55:30The other thing we're going to do today is to give the government an advance copy of the computer printout of what every city, town, and county and state get under general revenue.
55:44It's a book about that thing.
55:46So that they'll be able to take that home.
55:49or send it home and make the deadline, we'll hand it out to the press here tomorrow.
55:54And so they'll get an advance on that.
55:58Well, fine, that's all right.
56:00I'll talk to the city.
56:01We all can't express it in our computer, but I think we all can.
56:04That's fine with me.
56:05Ron, I just wanted to be sure we understood.
56:08What I don't want the governor to discuss is I don't want the whole thing on the record.
56:13I don't have anything private to say to them.
56:15I mean, we want to build up the fact that the city is a whole thing.
56:19So the press is just going to know.
56:21It's going to be an executive session.
56:23I'm going to talk.
56:24Congress is going to talk.
56:25Earth is going to talk.
56:26The whole purpose of it is to have it off the record.
56:29Our purpose being to prove that we get to the governors that we're there to get their support and not to use that as a forum to talk to them.
56:37Yes sir, I just announced that you're second to the press conference.
56:41Yes sir, I said you go first.
56:42Oh good, good.
56:43You're saying the same of mine on Congress, your coverage as the President, what about Conley and
56:48We want the governors to feel free to ask questions.
57:18We're not trying to exploit them.
57:19We're not trying to use them as a forum to make them speak to the country.
57:23We're trying to get their support.
57:25And they're understanding this thing.
57:27And that's what you do with them, sir.
57:30And for that reason, the whole place will be exactly the same.
57:35Scott, were you all right?
57:37Yes, I did.
57:38Hit the pipeline for five days.
57:41You know, it's a good one.
57:43Five days.
57:46Then we'll get into that front spell, which we haven't done.
57:48The front spell, I understand, will give the press the highlights of what happened in the author record session.
57:55But we'll come out, and the other thing is that John will be able to hold the end of the whole slideshow on Saturday.
58:03Well, let me work with Rob on that because there's some nuances in it that I think we can counter.
58:20Fine.
58:20All right.
58:21Thank you.
58:25We had boys all anticipating, wondering what you've done to the plot.
58:30What have you done to the job?
58:31Oh, yeah.
58:31Well, I really got those guys.
58:33I mean, I think of that poor chap Chelsea looked over there.
58:36He's such an honest fellow.
58:38I couldn't believe it.
58:40He said, he said, my God, he did.
58:43I think he now knows why I was afraid of the former clerk.
58:45He came over to me and he said, don't you think we better get this thing positioned back?
58:50Yeah.
58:51And he said, they're going to go out here thinking he's going to invoke controls or something.
58:56And I said, well, just wait until it gets done first.
58:59Let's see where we are and get off.
59:00I believe there's a third object.
59:03What was that?
59:04Reeds, Davis-Bacon, or perhaps both.
59:14But we have to play it that way, or this is the story of the leaders.
59:19That's the way to do it.
59:22I'm really a little bit stressed about it because he's just
59:40goddamned difficult, you know, to deal with Bob in terms of, he seems even to carry the speech, not wanting anybody to see it, you know, that sort of thing.
59:50Well, goddammit, it's far better for them to see it than to cry about it later, you know?
59:57And there's no sound I can't let, very low energy.
1:00:05Dr. Rogers.
1:00:05I totally do.
1:00:06But, um, what's that part of the second?
1:00:08So, I said, well, are you there?
1:00:10No, but he told me what he was doing.
1:00:12He came in asking how I handled Henry, and then went in and did it, and came back and told me what he did.
1:00:17And he said, the point I made to him was simply that, for the same reason when I was doing the economic speech, he told me to go over and go over with Dr. Burns.
1:00:24And he said, and my architect, he was a multi-class.
1:00:28And for Christ's sake, what difference does it make?
1:00:30It isn't, you're not losing control of this.
1:00:32He's sat right in the middle of consulting the drivers.
1:00:35You still know what he's going to put in.
1:00:37Well, I can tell my architect, I can guess it.
1:00:40It just gets so...
1:00:42Why did Sapphire go crying to Henry about it?
1:00:44Why didn't he just go see God, you know?
1:00:45He did the right thing.
1:00:46He told Henry.
1:00:47He was going, nobody should go see and then come back and say, that's what we did.
1:00:51But to Henry, he can't clear everything, Bob.
1:00:53He is not going to be able to do it.
1:00:56He's, uh, I don't know.
1:01:00But that's the right.
1:01:01Sapphire has to do it with the right.
1:01:03He's got to go.
1:01:07to tell him what you were going to do, just to get him all shook up, thinking you were running around behind him.
1:01:15That was to set up another pipeline for Rodney, you know, another way that he'd rush things in, and all that kind of stuff.
1:01:21And I said, hey, that's so ridiculous.
1:01:22How the hell is he going to run things in if you're a Sapphire?
1:01:26Exactly.
1:01:27When Sapphire took the speech over to Peter and Rodney, what did he want to do?
1:01:31Did he want to take it over?
1:01:33Henry did.
1:01:36Why the heck is he going to wait this time over there to take a speech over there?
1:01:39Oh, for Christ's sake.
1:01:41He just said, I'm used.
1:01:47Another pipeline.
1:01:49These are the psychopathic ones.
1:01:51If you were doing them like you were earlier and perhaps what you would have done, and that probably would be a better way to do it, would be to hit it too much.
1:01:58You can't do it this way.
1:02:01It would be for Henry to call.
1:02:02I used to say, first, if I go southward and over, review the things again.
1:02:09And then he...
1:02:14He's convinced that Rogers will use him, and he will do.
1:02:17There's some merit to Henry's all along, you see, but he's completely right in this way with his faith in Rogers.
1:02:24But he's wrong with regard to the fact that the way to deal with a situation is to mitigate it by having some sort of evidence, rather than none.
1:02:33That's where Henry's wrong, you see.
1:02:35He wants to run around and just put this thing out there and have a bench.
1:02:39What the hell, we're cutting the election down.
1:02:42A robber's raised with me yesterday.
1:02:46He said, how can I get it?
1:02:49Turn it directly to the president.
1:02:51I don't want it to go by Henry.
1:02:54I said, Bill, if it's substantive, then it shouldn't go to the president without going by Henry.
1:02:58Because the first thing the president's going to do on a meeting like that anyway is call Henry in.
1:03:03And we'll get him checked out or implemented or whatever's going to be done.
1:03:07But for you, it only goes Henry in an impossible position if it comes in without his name.
1:03:11You're just creating a problem rather than solving it.
1:03:14And I said, if you've got something personal, something like that, then obviously you should go direct.
1:03:18And I always would.
1:03:20And he said, well, how do I get that?
1:03:22And I said, send it to Rose.
1:03:23What was he sending to me?
1:03:25And he said, I'd rather send it to you.
1:03:27That's right.
1:03:28And I said, that's fine, but I want it understood that anything that you send such and such, it will go to Henry.
1:03:34And he said, well, how do you keep it out of this whole apparatus?
1:03:36And I said, if it needs to stand on the apparatus, I'll go over it with Henry and go, you know, go directly in through Henry to the president without going through his apparatus.
1:03:47You know, if it's something that you don't want discussed.
1:03:49for some validation and then something else.
1:03:53But I said, there's no way the president can deal with all these matters.
1:03:57Then I used, I said, for example, I said, this is one that keeps coming up and the president uses it.
1:04:04It's a horrible example.
1:04:04He used it in talks with Bob Dole the other day, which is the whole question of Ecuadorians in the votes.
1:04:11You know, this kind of stuff comes up and the president doesn't want to be bothered with it.
1:04:14But he did something on Ecuadorian tuna boats.
1:04:16The first thing he does is call Mandrian and Ray Sullivan and say, God damn it, I did tuna boats.
1:04:21You people have got to take care of them.
1:04:22I'm not going to be concerned making decisions on tuna boats.
1:04:27I said, you made exactly that point to Bob Doble in explaining how we should function as national charity.
1:04:32And it won't because that's a little head pushing it.
1:04:37And I pretended I didn't know that.
1:04:38I just said, yeah, I just said it as an example.
1:04:41I think he said, well, I don't see that.
1:04:46He said, as a matter of fact, if you're going into the votes, it's one that I'd like to solve myself.
1:04:51I think it's one where we can make some progress on.
1:04:53I'm going down to the OAS.
1:04:55I think I can get a word done.
1:04:59Well, the other thing is the state has got to solve a lot of things without having everything cleared by Henry now, Bob.
1:05:06They've got responsibilities.
1:05:08And Bill is right about this.
1:05:12Henry does tend to process too much.
1:05:15You know, everything goes in.
1:05:17Jesus Christ, even if I see a bitch back from Cyprus, he gives me two bitches.
1:05:24Now, for Christ's sake, that's not necessary.
1:05:25You don't need to have a guy spend the day doing it.
1:05:27He said that is where everything's wrong.
1:05:29You should have seen it.
1:05:30It was a problem with Kevin because it was almost at the end.
1:05:38It was a thing.
1:05:39That kept the paper close and tabs and all that.
1:05:43It was something coming to you, an action of paper.
1:05:46The action part of it on the top was I think 17 pages or something with the proof.
1:05:53This was roughball.
1:05:54It had to do with
1:05:58relay transistors manufactured by Nicaragua or something like that.
1:06:04There's an international green country or something that does have computers.
1:06:07And they have pictures of these relays, you know, color pictures.
1:06:11And I sent it back and said, Henry, this is a, Henry sent it back to me.
1:06:15I said, this is a prime example of, you know, the kind of thing where we run into problems.
1:06:19How in the world?
1:06:20The President doesn't even know this kind of transistor exists, I'm sure.
1:06:24And there's no reason on earth why he should.
1:06:28And I said, if there's really something that you need a presidential decision on, why don't you just say what you recommend on the top page and let them say yes or no?
1:06:34And forget all the backup crap, because it's just been a hard line.
1:06:36Something like that.
1:06:38And it should have.
1:06:39But I wrote a little note and sent it back to the crew.
1:06:43There was a big sack of stuff running in there.
1:06:48I just wrote the top of it and sent it back.
1:06:53It was sort of the epitome of that kind of stuff.
1:06:58The point is...
1:07:14But that's what a staff is for.
1:07:15Now our domestic staff is doing a lot of that, you know.
1:07:18And now it's come down, and I've got this down and stuff now where I really, as you said, I'm now thinking a hell of a lot more about the important, less about the urgent.
1:07:27Although he still sends his stuff back to John, to the domestic people.
1:07:32But not Randall Adams.
1:07:34They're John, John Flanagan, Fred Flanagan.
1:07:37And once in a while they send you something with a fairly thick name and say, you know, you don't have to read.
1:07:42They have it there in case you want it.
1:07:44So that's going to be with yours.
1:07:45One thing about it, if you've done anything, you're going to have to think sometimes, but you're going to have to read it out.
1:07:54Along the Henry and Michael, we've got a problem.
1:07:56You're absolutely right.
1:07:57The main thing about Henry is that he's loyal, whereas the State Department is not.
1:08:01And, frankly, Rogers and the Social Service are always in his way.
1:08:05He's loyal.
1:08:07Don't you agree?
1:08:07He's in his way.
1:08:09And he wants us to succeed.
1:08:10Sure he does.
1:08:11And his motivation for all of what he was talking about is trying to figure out better ways of doing things.
1:08:16Oh, but he had not sent a service that he'd made to me.
1:08:18I don't know about any side of him that I was sending him through.
1:08:22And I say, but then Henry, he couldn't set up a paper, or a nissen, or a wesson, for every goddamned illusionist thing that happens.
1:08:30You know, he had too many leaves.
1:08:32They go on and on and on and on about crap.
1:08:36Now the West, on Vietnam, that is important.
1:08:38But you see, if he does it with others, then it's not.
1:08:42In fact, I don't know what the hell he's going to do.
1:08:45We're going to have to see.
1:08:48He's got to figure out something.
1:08:49We've been through it.
1:08:52We've been finished on it.
1:09:02You should have activities for the sake of having them.
1:09:04Well, the sake of having a colony of them, too.
1:09:33Can you enter in this pane?
1:09:37Can you give up all of your days?
1:09:41Just one thing.
1:09:49Uh, can you come in?
1:09:49Okay.
1:09:50Well, uh, Friday is, because we have the ICB battery, planning a, uh, trip to Friday.
1:09:55This Friday.
1:10:05I'll see you right after
1:10:31We've got a building that's taken up by Shakespeare's sit-in.
1:10:44He told me to have a sit-in.
1:10:45You know, he's loyal to us.
1:10:48But he had something that he wanted me to do.
1:10:54I didn't have one, that's what I'm saying.
1:11:04I'm going to have one Wednesday.
1:11:07Wednesday is off.
1:11:12Wednesday and Thursday is off next week.
1:11:16So, I'm off Friday of next week on Speaker Carl.
1:11:18Next week?
1:11:18No, Friday .
1:11:19Well, it says breakfast with Senator Mansfield on here.
1:11:23Yeah.
1:11:29Shouldn't be.
1:11:32It's supposed to always be done on time.
1:11:36So the question mark has to be very well set up.
1:11:40It says speaker Albert and a clock.
1:11:43Now that's actually not so wrong.
1:11:47You're right.
1:11:48It is a trademark, right?
1:11:49That's what we're working on.
1:11:57I want you to have the NSC meeting.
1:12:01I want you to have the NSC meeting this Friday.
1:12:12What's that?
1:12:12This Friday.
1:12:14Let us see a little higher, because there's no preparation.
1:12:17All right.
1:12:17And we've all spent this week on the annual report.
1:12:18I've seen the NSC meeting one day, and I'll give them a report on the Laotian thing.
1:12:22Well, we're probably going to get the feel of what the real meaning of the NSC is in that certain country.
1:12:48I need some parking.
1:12:53Have a Tuesday.
1:12:54Have a Tuesday right after the campaign meeting.
1:12:58Fair enough.
1:13:02Okay, Attorney General.
1:13:03Is that on that?
1:13:06Medals of Honor, I see on there, too.
1:13:08There's not a lot on that.
1:13:12What about the academic song?
1:13:15Yes, there is.
1:13:23Now the one two weeks after that also bothered him.
1:13:53That one has to be for March 9th.
1:13:55I don't know when.
1:13:56I know that's a change in season.
1:14:03You do it on the 16th.
1:14:03You have to have one two weeks after the second.
1:14:07So what's the 16th?
1:14:08You don't have to consider it.
1:14:12That day of the hour is the 16th.
1:14:14Do it the same day as the cabinet meeting.
1:14:17The 16th.
1:14:17That's it.
1:14:19I'm putting this on the wrong cycle, this one.
1:14:21It's getting back the same day as the cabin.
1:14:25Well, is there no way you can have it this time?
1:14:27No, I'm checking on that.
1:14:29Well, I'll figure what you're doing.
1:14:31Push the NST.
1:14:32Don't do it once.
1:14:33Push the NST to the following Monday, then the E. That's better.
1:14:37Is that all right?
1:14:38You got that?
1:14:40Nothing.
1:14:40It's a swap.
1:14:42I have to wait.
1:14:44Huh?
1:14:44Until Monday morning.
1:14:468 o'clock.
1:14:48See?
1:14:49Monday the 8th.
1:14:52Yeah.
1:14:53Or 8.
1:14:538.30.
1:14:57That's better.
1:14:58You don't want to do it to the following.
1:15:03That doesn't matter.
1:15:05We'll do it to the following Tuesday.
1:15:06You don't understand.
1:15:07I said it wouldn't happen.
1:15:09About two weeks.
1:15:09About two weeks.
1:15:10Yeah.
1:15:10Why?
1:15:10Why can't you?
1:15:11The two weeks following.
1:15:12On the 22nd.
1:15:13It's the one.
1:15:13Ten of me now.
1:15:13The one-on-one.
1:15:15Oh, fine.
1:15:16Well, then have it on Tuesday.
1:15:17No, have it on Wednesday.
1:15:19Oh, Wednesday.
1:15:19Oh, Wednesday should keep it clear then.
1:15:22No, on Thursday then.
1:15:25Thursday's all right that week.
1:15:27Yeah, Thursday the 25th.
1:15:29Okay, Thursday two days.
1:15:30Thursday the 25th.
1:15:31Thursday two weeks.
1:15:32See?
1:15:33The 25th is going to be clear now since I understand.
1:15:51Monday's the bad day.
1:15:53That gives you a week to prepare.
1:15:56And it's, rather than pushing it off to Tuesday, having it the same day as a captain, not so good.
1:16:02It's not a good idea to bring the same people in twice.
1:16:05I think that's a lot of personal problems.
1:16:19Get it done.
1:16:23Get it done at 8 to 9.30, and then we will have a good time.
1:16:37All right.
1:16:39I, uh, I, uh, uh, uh, uh,
1:16:43Well, I wonder.
1:16:44That is really a blow, Mr. President.
1:16:45I know.
1:16:47It's a blow.
1:16:47Because I used to know about it.
1:16:49It's a blow.
1:16:50It's too bad.
1:16:54So, like, it was the general's horse.
1:16:57It's pretty tough.
1:16:58And he was sad.
1:16:58But the second is the man that temporarily is the commander of the 25th Division, who's good.
1:17:03Yeah.
1:17:04But, you know, it's like when Lombardi dies, you say Austin is good.
1:17:08I know.
1:17:09And something intangible gets lost.
1:17:12Uh, and now they're putting the man who was in charge, Bunker sent me a fact journal saying that Q had nominated the man he had in charge of Saigon and who was his top man to take over for Tree.
1:17:30And that Abrams and Bunker think that's the best general now available.
1:17:35So, uh, uh,
1:17:41But that is going well.
1:17:42The last thing we've got here is quite a few guys.
1:17:45You've got a key.
1:17:46You can't depend on one man.
1:17:49Or you're not one at all.
1:17:54The guy was terrific.
1:17:55Remember I told you yesterday the North Vietnamese were marching in Cambodia.
1:17:59And he jumped right over them and took a town way behind them.
1:18:05He just operates like that.
1:18:09So now that concentration has broken up and he's done absolutely spectacularly in that area.
1:18:18Maybe that's why I wondered if the 2nd Command, maybe he was inculcated with a little of the same thing?
1:18:27That's...
1:18:27I don't know.
1:18:27It's...
1:18:27I know that as you say, there's nothing...
1:18:29Nothing to do with acres, which has something to do with that planning too, isn't it?
1:18:35Oh, yeah.
1:18:35We don't have any help.
1:18:37I think acres is fine, and it's behind a hell of a lot of these things.
1:18:41And Davidson, the commander of 3rd Corps, is a good one.
1:18:44the man who, our commander, of the military region, to be the counterpart of three, is the best general we've got there next to April.
1:18:54So I think we've got good backup there.
1:18:58Now, I had a session with Westmoreland this morning.
1:19:01I asked him to come in, and there's the old commander.
1:19:04I had to make him feel good.
1:19:05I wanted to get his assessment.
1:19:09Westmoreland thinks that
1:19:13With any sort of ability and luck, there's no question that we can hold the North of England.
1:19:24He does make one poem, which I think I told him to put to Mora to transmit to Adrian.
1:19:30He thinks we shouldn't get mesmerized by Chipotle.
1:19:33No.
1:19:34And he's afraid that Abrams may feel that he's committed to you.
1:19:38Hell!
1:19:38That is the plan.
1:19:39To go to Chipotle.
1:19:42And none of the briefings of the press has created that.
1:19:49Because if we keep these roads cut, and if we... How about getting another governor to read this morning to marry the one that's still open?
1:19:59It's 23.
1:20:01Oh, that 234, now that we can cut, that will be cut in a week, but that is really not that important.
1:20:08Well, Westmoreland Fields, that he thinks is normal.
1:20:15What he's worried about, yes, and I also have a message here from Duncan.
1:20:23That's all I want to know.
1:20:27I don't give a damn what the rules are about.
1:20:33Well, let me read you that one paragraph, because that answers the question.
1:20:38He said, we both and the neighbors and he, having seen few as we have, came away feeling that there's no question about the TVN's steadiness and their determination to see the operation through.
1:20:48Both Q and VN express confidence in their troops, saying that in quality they were superior to the North Vietnamese.
1:20:55General Sutherland, commander of 24th Corps, that's our commander up there, has expressed admiration for the skill with which General Lam is conducting the operation.
1:21:05General Abrams concurs.
1:21:07Both Q and VN expect heavy fighting to develop.
1:21:10anticipate that the Arvin will take significant losses, but are confident of inflicting much heavier damage on the enemy.
1:21:19In short, I think that both Q and VN are looking at the problem realistically, recognizing that the enemy is firing strongly, but confident in the ability of the Arvin to achieve its objectives.
1:21:32That is essentially a long-term relations plan.
1:21:37They are now
1:21:39The Arvin briefer is trying to get his instructions from us every day.
1:21:44They're sending a new briefer to the first floor, a new Arvin briefer.
1:21:49They're giving a concession.
1:21:51We should have thought of that all before.
1:21:57He said our briefers will meet daily with their GVN counterparts to instruct them.
1:22:04On our side we will have a senior military officer give the press a rundown of the extended nature of the operation, emphasizing the positive aspects in terms of results.
1:22:16Then our press officers are discreetly feeding selected correspondence material designed to show that the operation is making progress.
1:22:23A tour of Saigon-based bureau chiefs and correspondence to Military Region 1 and a visit to 1st Arvin Division fire base
1:22:3120 kilometers inside Laos, conducted on February 21, has been highly successful, and we plan to continue these visits.
1:22:37They did send somebody in the box.
1:22:39Right.
1:22:40That's already been done.
1:22:42Right.
1:22:43This was done as a result of your orders.
1:22:45That's been rebutted so much.
1:22:48And these are the bureau chiefs, so they are getting on top.
1:22:52Did you find out who the AP guy was?
1:22:54No, but I'm sure.
1:22:55Well, understand that they're not the truth.
1:23:00That's one thing, but...
1:23:02In all wars, reporters lie in order to make stories.
1:23:07And they did in the Civil War, they did in the Civil War.
1:23:11It was unbelievable.
1:23:12They were just trying to keep up with the Civil War's needs.
1:23:16Of course, they lost them, and Japan lost them as well.
1:23:25Did you see the loosely thing about you that you presented in the trade tradition?
1:23:36I went over to my room, the Lincoln City room, and on the little desk there, beside me, there were five boys bringing their top books.
1:23:42Just at the top of their sandbags.
1:23:44Civil War.
1:23:45At some point, it's the Civil War.
1:23:48Newsweek said a leading European salesman said he was... Was this in Malsop's car?
1:23:54No, it wasn't in Newsweek's car.
1:23:55Malsop has now the British players coming this way.
1:23:59and said that President Nixon is a statesman in the grand tradition and we all look for him, privately, of course.
1:24:15Who is that?
1:24:15This is a word assumption.
1:24:18They had it in the newspaper in a very favorable
1:24:22basically a very favorable account of what was it, Oslo?
1:24:26Oslo, yes.
1:24:27But why did they put him in service, Heath?
1:24:31Well, Heath wouldn't say privately.
1:24:33Could it be Pompidou?
1:24:36Could it be...
1:24:36I think it doesn't sound like an Italian.
1:24:42Could it be Heath?
1:24:44But that's the way they do it.
1:24:45Well, we've got to throw that out there.
1:24:48I've got to say something.
1:24:56Detective Knox and none of the gunmen will be certain to press this fratting, compare fratting, and try to prove this provenance.
1:25:03And, of course, it is legitimate news if they're losing.
1:25:05Let's face it.
1:25:06It is legitimate news.
1:25:08My view is, are they fighting well?
1:25:10If they're fighting well, Henry, we've got an inning.
1:25:12The President's belly, the part that I think that I made the last is very important.
1:25:20These guys in South Vietnamese are trying to become Americans next, this summer, and next, at the end of the year.
1:25:28I'm not a Democrat, so it's up to them to draw on my 73.
1:25:32We can do that.
1:25:33We can do that provided.
1:25:38except for the prisoners, but nobody is going to want to withdraw.
1:25:41If they agree, we've got the prisoners.
1:25:43If they agree with the prisoners, every American will support a chief of 50,000 Americans.
1:25:47Mr. President, I think one reason I would like Haig to go out there later is violently opposed to Haig going out.
1:25:54But you're asking... Well, he's cutting off... Why is he opposed?
1:25:58Because he thinks it shows lack of confidence in Haig.
1:26:00Well, maybe this is wrong.
1:26:02Well, but I have to say two things about it, Mr. President.
1:26:07We've got everything on the line here, and Abrams' feelings are less important than that the thing goes right.
1:26:13Quite honestly, Abrams' feelings aren't going to help you if he does a crazy thing in Chipotle, because he doesn't understand what we're really after.
1:26:24But secondly, what I'm most anxious for now, after what Dobrynin said to me yesterday,
1:26:32I consider that Hanoi Overture extremely ungrateful, but I'll send a message here, and I'll say I'm sending it because we frankly need it for the PR to get so that he can come back and speak with authority here for one of the PR issues that we think, and I know exactly what to say to him, that I have every confidence in.
1:26:54But what I'd like to do is to check with Parker what the traffic will be.
1:27:00You see, I have always thought that we should go this year to the North Vietnamese and tell them we'll get everybody out in 15 months in return for a total ceasefire for that period of the crisis.
1:27:16But frankly, it's six months too early.
1:27:17I thought we should do it after the election.
1:27:24That's 15 months from now.
1:27:26But if we had an agreement, it doesn't really matter.
1:27:29Let me ask this.
1:27:30Where does it, where does everything stand now?
1:27:33Do I understand that it would be with regard to a letter of agreement to Ducosigan?
1:27:39If I sent a letter to Ducosigan.
1:27:41Now, what I have done is.
1:27:42It's a suggestion.
1:27:44Now, I have given a draft letter to Ducosigan.
1:27:47Yeah.
1:27:48Which Ducosigan will approve.
1:27:50Yeah, do that.
1:27:51Then if he approves it, then we'll know what his answer will be, too.
1:27:58He will give me a copy of his answer and I'll let it down.
1:28:02That's the reason it's sharp as a tack, the way he edited that letter of yours.
1:28:06Actually saying that now, the point is, having done that, then we get it back.
1:28:12We just bring in the people and say, look, here's what I do.
1:28:16If they accept our proposal, you're going to have more trouble with it.
1:28:19Smith will tell you they won't accept it.
1:28:21Sorry.
1:28:21I've taken an initiative here, and I'm going to do it.
1:28:29That's that.
1:28:30I'm not going to screw it.
1:28:32Today they have another story that they make me back off.
1:28:34I saw that.
1:28:36I saw that.
1:28:37It's going to hurt me again, Mr. Franklin.
1:28:39Screw them.
1:28:39That doesn't make any difference.
1:28:42The law on this whole thing is we have a section on salt.
1:28:48Yeah, but I yielded and for the sake of peace with Rogers, I yielded on it.
1:28:54It was frivolous.
1:28:56Well, because I don't want to come to you... No, but how much did you have something for you to take the whole section of salt?
1:29:03Oh, no, but I took out much of it, and it's pure mischief.
1:29:07They had me on the phone ten times in one day, and then they demanded to see you.
1:29:14I didn't want to put you in the position where you would have to rule either for me or for Rogers, because I don't think it's the right position for you to be in.
1:29:30Hold on.
1:29:32I do want you to find out, I mean, I really want to know the source of that leak, you know, the one about the backing off of this position, because, you know, I really think that has to be named, and I want to call her on that.
1:29:50Fair enough.
1:29:51It wasn't in our status to talk about television.
1:29:54But would you just say, well, look, it really is.
1:29:57Ziegler has to answer it.
1:30:00I just really want to know what the hell the story is.
1:30:02I mean, it's really tough.
1:30:05That one is to me, at least.
1:30:07Because I didn't know we backed off of the position, but apparently...
1:30:11And we had taken, he's taken the section out.
1:30:14And, or at least this is an actual part of it.
1:30:17So there is a back down, and everybody's going to notice it.
1:30:19And the point is, now that it was done and worked out, why in the hell was some son of a bitch in the state?
1:30:26I want to know, and I want somebody's head.
1:30:29Fair enough.
1:30:30Get the reports.
1:30:36Don't worry about it.
1:30:43It's on Berlin.
1:30:45The deal there, it's all in-channel, so don't worry about that.
1:30:49The Berlin deal, the only pity is you won't get the credit.
1:30:54Well, let's try.
1:30:55Let's leave a story.
1:30:56But we can leave it.
1:30:58I'll tell you, when we get these after the agreement is signed.
1:31:01No, I don't want it before.
1:31:02I want it before the agreement is signed.
1:31:04Before the agreement is signed.
1:31:05I'm going to leave a story that we're doing.
1:31:08Screw it.
1:31:08We've got to leave stories that we... Why don't we leave it now?
1:31:11Well, because it's too early.
1:31:13But this is going to be obvious long before there's a signature.
1:31:18We'll have plenty of opportunities.
1:31:19When do you think we're going to come off?
1:31:23Depending on how quickly we can move, the Germans will turn too much.
1:31:27All right.
1:31:31Send a letter to a messenger from Russia to say that he should indicate that the President is playing a personal role in these negotiations.
1:31:41To who?
1:31:42The Prince.
1:31:43Let me start with some background.
1:31:46The President is personally in charge of these negotiations.
1:31:52I think, Mr. President, if we could wait a week until we get some answers.
1:31:55All right.
1:31:56Otherwise, if it fails, as soon as you get the answers and you think it's on stream,
1:32:02having put out the fact that the President is personally unhappy and put it out is much better than having it come from here.
1:32:07Because at this point... Then you see, then you can, then there's been people, other people in the government, they can't claim they did it, but I want them to know that people... Because at this point, Mr. President, we are not...
1:32:18This is not like Saul.
1:32:20Saul, you can make one big play, and they'll accept it or not.
1:32:24On Saul, my view on that is that if they come back and accept this thing, they may.
1:32:36If they come back and accept it, then my view is that...
1:32:39I just called in.
1:32:40Well, I've got to have this on.
1:32:44I just sent it in two times.
1:32:46What do I do?
1:32:47Do we have an NSV meeting tomorrow?
1:32:48Or just have it?
1:32:49Well, I called in Rogers and Smith, and I'd say I'd thought about it.
1:32:51Actually, the New York Times yesterday had an editorial suggesting you write a letter to procedure.
1:32:56Yeah.
1:32:56So you said before they go, you want to break the deadline.
1:32:58And this is the letter you're going to write.
1:33:01Now, Smith is going to have a heart attack at that point.
1:33:04Smith, I'm going to write this to Rogers.
1:33:09And he just tells Smith, and that's it.
1:33:11That's the way it's going to be.
1:33:15That's better.
1:33:15I think the drug is wrong.
1:33:16I can say that I have strong feelings about this.
1:33:20And I can get layered aboard.
1:33:22I'm so sick of Smith anyway.
1:33:23I don't like him.
1:33:24I don't trust him.
1:33:27But I think we can get layered aboard.
1:33:30The only thing that's going to cause trouble, there's two things that are going to cause trouble.
1:33:33One, they can't serve us.
1:33:35That's why they didn't want the long salt section, because they didn't want to get you...
1:33:39The section is long, but not as deep as it was.
1:33:41But it's not important.
1:33:43They don't want you to get the credit for it, but they can't say that.
1:33:47The second thing they won't want is the change in the position on the ABM, because they'll say the Russians won't accept it.
1:33:57But Laird goes back to that.
1:34:00I've already talked to Laird, because we couldn't do it without Laird.
1:34:14Well, go ahead.
1:34:17But to show you something of the flavor of the green and then I gave him the letter who could see him.
1:34:24He didn't say I have to refer that to Moscow.
1:34:26He said that too.
1:34:28But he immediately started editing it to see what would be easier for them to take and what wouldn't.
1:34:37I had a section in there about moves and he said why don't we both drop that one.
1:34:43It's embarrassing for you, and he's got a good point.
1:34:47I had him to let him move.
1:34:49We'll be permitted.
1:34:50He said, of course, we'll be permitted.
1:35:05I'm sorry.
1:35:06Joseph Maurer?
1:35:07No.
1:35:09Probably the best general.
1:35:13in the Civil War.
1:35:15However, in the White House of Washington, the name of Joseph Anthony Mauler meant nothing in particular to a rather ordinary division of the Corps of Command.
1:35:22Mauler was Hanan, one of the strangest personalities of the war.
1:35:27No Westwater, a Mexican war volunteer private.
1:35:29In September of 61, he commissioned a captain.
1:35:32He so fought and marched with his men that in August of 64, he was made Major General of Volunteers.
1:35:38rough, irascible, hairy six-footer, swearing in his dark, tawny whiskers, quote, you always have to look for him in the front lines, said other officers.
1:35:49He never spoke of himself, said Sherman, who had at the dock reserve a better soldier or a braver man had ever lived.
1:35:57He never spoke of himself.
1:36:01Over and again, Grant and Turner would use Maurer as a snagging tool.
1:36:05They could count on him to bore in and crack an enemy line.
1:36:08He had a marvelous instinct for holding his men, letting the enemy index himself in pieces against his rifle fire.
1:36:14Then with the precision that he could split a second, he yelled, charge.
1:36:18The reports were monotonous.
1:36:19General Maurer drove the enemy two miles.
1:36:22He rode a few letters, the same perilous indistinction.
1:36:25Several successive sets of his staff officers were killed in action, trying to keep pace with him.
1:36:30From a work of clean, clear, and observable approach, Confederate forces, on Sherman's request, marred Minot Reeves and hurriedly joined up with a force marching Savannah.
1:36:41In the form of a droidic march of men, he led them through rain and mud, through icy, deep waters, taking the punishments of bad weather and outdoors saving his troops.
1:36:52His fellow officers could hardly find words to describe how soberly he had with the men in the push.
1:36:57He bestowed a catchy swan song.
1:37:00One of the greatest of American soldiers, he was also one of the many valorous, picturesque unknowns.
1:37:08A grim, silent man with a contempt of either death or fame.
1:37:14Had Lincoln known Maher, he would no more have worried about Sakahashi and the German, who emphasized, as to Maher, he never spoke of himself.
1:37:26They're his best, beautiful women.
1:37:30That's what you ought to just look down on General Joseph Maher.
1:37:35Tell these guys we want the people up there with the Laotians to handle themselves like power.
1:37:40They don't need to be spectacular and move around and so forth.
1:37:48They're not going to conquer.
1:37:49But if they can hold there on that damn route... Mr. President, if they can hold on this route without advancing, actually, they'll be in Chiffon anyway in April because the other side will appear to stand the gas.
1:37:58But we don't need Chiffon.
1:37:59What we need are the roads.
1:38:02And one of the things... You know, it's an interesting thing.
1:38:05that Henry had in the early times.
1:38:08He had an unbelievably dishonest piece when he said that President Hu has added a, quote, new reason for the justification for the invasion of Laos.
1:38:20In other words, that the North Vietnamese were girding themselves for an attack into the four northern provinces.
1:38:31Good God!
1:38:32We've always said that.
1:38:34That wasn't a new reason.
1:38:35That was part of the original reason.
1:38:38I said it so every newsman the day of the invasion.
1:38:41Well, look, but it's Packers' Soul Week.
1:38:43Packers' Soul Week on Earth.
1:38:45You said it.
1:38:46You said it.
1:38:47And as you said this morning, those four divisions weren't there to look at the scenery.
1:38:50God, they were there.
1:38:51They're going to attack.
1:38:52They were going to attack.
1:38:53That's why we went in.
1:38:54And the appointment, you know, it's a...
1:38:57They're just cramped.
1:38:59But you think they're doing better.
1:39:00They think the 21st is any of that and getting in the papers yet or the reports on the TV.
1:39:06But for all the evidence that was in this morning who said, I'm praying for you, you're doing the right thing.
1:39:12I believe him.
1:39:13I think he is.
1:39:13Is he right?
1:39:14I think he doesn't make any difference.
1:39:16He's not a reporter.
1:39:17He's a columnist.
1:39:18But Rowley said... Is he getting the feel of this?
1:39:21Yeah, he said, hold tight.
1:39:22He said, all these guys are now killing you.
1:39:25He said, avoid optimistic comments now.
1:39:28That's true.
1:39:29He's got a good point.
1:39:30He said, if the thing works, all the guys are now knocking, you will look silly.
1:39:35If it doesn't work, you only compound your problems by having been optimistic.
1:39:41And, no, he's very positive.
1:39:43I think it used to be very cool.
1:39:46Not to be optimistic or pessimistic.
1:39:50Rowley said this president has more guts than any president he's known.
1:39:54And for him, as an old Kennedy friend, to say that is...
1:39:58Fantastic.
1:39:59The thing we've got to do is to be very careful with all our words.
1:40:03Well, Leonard has played that well.
1:40:04I thought maybe he was going to be too pessimistic.
1:40:07Maybe he wasn't.
1:40:08He said, we've got some time.
1:40:10He asked me, how were you?
1:40:11Were you worried?
1:40:11I said, look, the president in crisis is very serious.
1:40:17How about that?
1:40:18What should he say?
1:40:20I think he should say, we are trying, about what I said this morning, we're cutting the LOCs.
1:40:26Yeah.
1:40:27And not to say I'm not here to be bothering you, this is a war.
1:40:30We might have some other, but with the South Vietnamese up to this point are fighting well.
1:40:36But the idea that we're tied down in the roads and so forth, I wouldn't worry about the day-to-day accounts of that.
1:40:44Jesus Christ, you're always here.
1:40:46The first day of coming to Gettysburg was very pessimistic, wasn't it?
1:40:51Mr. President, the North Vietnamese, the fact that they haven't complained yet about these strikes in the North... Why do you want to say this?
1:41:03There's two places now, but two.
1:41:05I think we ought to take out two.
1:41:07But then we ought to go 20 kilometers inland because they're piled up all along the roads leading into the... Just be very, very sure they're there.
1:41:17I don't want to hear from a bombing raid.
1:41:21No, I've seen the pictures.
1:41:23Oh, yeah.
1:41:25A hundred trucks in one place, piled, crates stacked up.
1:41:32Well, which did we get?
1:41:34Oh, Mutriya and Pankarai, we take the same heat for power.
1:41:40And go no more than 30 kilometers, that's 18 miles there.
1:41:48Otherwise they'll spill over to the coast again.
1:41:52And that they shouldn't do.
1:41:54And do it in one day and get it over with.
1:41:55And call the strike to stay?
1:41:59Call it protective reaction.
1:42:02Or hell, they can call it anything they want.
1:42:04They were eating sand sites.
1:42:07Well, and the devil works.
1:42:09Sand sites.
1:42:10This was the enemy buildup that the president has referred to, which would threaten our remaining forces, and we're simply knocking it out.
1:42:19I have some conservative columnists whom they want me to greet.
1:42:24Don't worry about the power.
1:42:28Blood doesn't mean it was always focused on himself.

Nixon, Haldeman & Butterfield on Foreign Trade Policy and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on February 23, 1971

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