Conversation 460-017

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Yeah.

Steve, you know, I was just going to be down on this anyway, so Steve was going to sort of play player and I don't know why.

That'd be a problem.

Well, I don't mean now.

I mean, if he had, he was going to see.

I think that I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't, Alex, I don't really see anything in the picture of the substance that he's really talking about.

I mean, it's, he wants to come in, but there's God in the eye.

I know there's a reason he's not concerned about the future of Jewish law.

I know that Saudi Arabia...

I don't know if we had him in there.

Well, I wouldn't have.

There's nothing on there.

At some point, I don't know, but it has to kind of occur, isn't it?

That's right.

Basically, I understand that.

I grew it up.

I grew it up every eight to nine months.

Okay.

Why five months?

Six months.

No, we've got to get it something more often.

Well, we've got to get it something more often.

No, that's okay.

That's good for a while.

He's writing a book.

Well, right now we're totally white on, uh, checks are just waiting until another situation arises, but hold on for a while.

Yeah.

Well, I can go out and see him, but I'm not sure this morning I can meet him.

If there's anything he wants to come in, I'm fine.

He's got some hurt, but I don't want him to discuss that in the passenger seat over with me.

That's what's funny.

See, that's the kind of thing, Bob, I gotta keep him out all the time, right?

But he's fine.

I could go out and have him.

Might as well.

Might work him into the day.

I think we've cleaned up almost everybody here today, except one.

New in your crop today.

Not much.

I'm not going to campaign at my camp.

I'm going to New York.

Okay.

We'll give the colonies a chance to really be free and easy and do whatever they want.

That's a nice thing to know.

Would you be sure, Alex, that somebody at Camp David or Camp Captain knows that I not only want him to stay in the cabin, but that, except you in the background, I'm not going.

My dog would be more convenient for him to stay.

I'd like to do it myself.

I'm not going at all.

My point is that in view of that, I want to be sure that the Camp Captain's just there to have their meals and ask them.

So they can stay needed.

Either side of it.

If you say either of the two, then I'm proud of you.

It's not good.

It would have been a beat.

It would have been a beat just so they could tell if it was a brand new one or a new one.

Unless you do go on Saturday or something like that.

I know.

I'm sorry.

And he'd get these little fools on telling him,

I think he should be able to develop some bloody blood.

Was he there?

Yeah.

Don't you think that was a nice touch?

Sure.

Bring him in.

And it was a nice historical moment.

Kevin was defeated in the Senate.

And ran for governor.

Now he's had a good president.

And any little thing to do now, I don't know.

I'm suggesting what you ought to do.

That'll just sit them all away.

I think you're suggesting Bush for president.

Yeah.

But don't you think that kind of thing gives people a little of a feeling of the, I don't know, the baby, I guess?

So much better than just going out, I remember, the way, you know, it's not as usually prepared, the way that it's usually done on Johnson.

but you go out and praise this man, his great accomplishment, et cetera, et cetera.

It doesn't mean a thing.

It's a very serious moment in the rest of it.

I can give you a little levity.

I sure do.

I think it has much, you know, it has all the trappings when you have the hail of the chief and the civil war justice and the flights and all that.

That is great to get a hold of.

Maybe he can tell us.

Got his ego kicked for the day, anyway.

Breakfast.

Oh, shit.

He said he was reading.

For the old man, yeah.

I didn't.

No, I don't think he did.

I think he was just being there.

I don't think this is a real coup, as I'm sure you know, but she said that, honestly, I don't think it was a coup.

Well, the argument about the coup, we did it over the last weekend, made the point that the Johnsons and the Kennedys had both made all-out efforts to get these portraits to the White House and failed.

And Mrs. Nixon succeeded, as she did with the Dow Kennedys.

It was also a really good meeting.

It's incredible.

What we have here is what we have to do.

We just have to take this book and put roads or markers on it.

Just like it is.

I thought of Mark Good.

Trisha was talking to me yesterday, one of the Kennedy senators.

But I want Mark to treat

Their television appearances would be saying, you know, as much as the time, when I've been less directly complex, you should go over and help Trisha or Pat when they've got anything that might be on television.

I just think it's a damn good idea.

I feel a joy doing it.

It'll help them.

They didn't ask for it, but I just, I think it's, you know, worked out too well.

Yeah.

But he's very good.

He's a good boy.

He's smooth.

He's great because he's so low-key.

He's fast.

Oh, he's quick.

Very fast.

You know, he never acts.

There's no rumbles.

No, don't try to flirt.

There's nothing about him that stands there.

It's a very beautiful boy.

Most everybody in this business, Bob and Anderson's particular field, they have to

and to make a hell of a big deal out of it.

I want to have a chat with him.

They think, I guess they have a feeling that's what I'm supposed to do.

This guy used to do that.

He comes in, he tells me, whispers into my ear, I get it, and I'll do it.

That's what I want to do.

Then he doesn't interfere with my train of thought.

It's correct.

He's a good man.

I really request him because he's got, he's exactly what you want, this solid confidence.

You know he knows what he's talking about, but he's got to go outside that.

He's the first TV guy we've had around that is excitable.

Roger is always, you know, his tie is done and all, and Roger Hillary's, yeah, boom.

And Ted Rogers is a dead rocker.

He's worked for a dead rock rocker, too.

I think that was also exciting for him.

And Scott was hard.

Scott was good.

Alice Murray is not top of the hood.

He wasn't nearly as fast.

He was good at something.

He was just like, like, he's just great with everybody.

He greases everybody.

He knows that he doesn't have to protect the guys that do that to him.

I think that we make it.

It's easy for him.

I see him on the scene.

When I get a guy that's good, you never have to worry.

I'll talk to him.

It's only when the guy is irritating, he's trying to voice change the conversation.

I fully realize that.

That's why it's...

That's why it's so important to get the right guy, though, because if he's not, you won't talk to him, and there's no reason why you shouldn't.

Some of the other things that are impressive about him is that he isn't the least bit abashed about being with the President of the United States.

He walked right in here the first day.

He was basically pretty common on the other night.

It was the first time he'd ever worn a white tie in his life.

He was moving around there running the time of dinner.

Hey, talk to Bryce.

Fortunately, he was at a dinner party of the Vice President's last night.

Didn't have a chance to talk to him.

It was a big party.

But the Vice President asked if you could play tennis with him tonight.

And said he would like to talk to him.

He had something he wanted to talk to him about.

So he's got a session set up.

He doesn't have to take the initiative.

He can go right into it.

He's going to cover the Goodyear thing.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And he says, I know, I remember.

Of course, Bryce likes it.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

See, they couldn't take it.

They never took Eisenhower off.

But now they've got two targets.

So it's not as hard for him.

He said, well, I don't remember.

He used to go to those things.

He laughed.

He always enjoyed it and all that.

And, you know...

He said, well, you know perfectly well he didn't enjoy it, but he put on a good show, and that's what the vice president's got to do.

So he's going to take that on, and also the whole intergovernmental relations business, you know, start through the office and go, and the whole thing is there to see what we can do.

That would be a good time for them to talk.

So you'll have a chance to talk in your live spaces, thank you.

Secretary Rogers wants five minutes, fairly urgent, come over any time.

General Hague says it's very important that Henry see the President prior to the President's returning, the Secretary of State's caller having him come over.

He sent a message to the Secretary asking notes.

I know that.

So the question is, who do you see first?

I'm not going to see Rodgers.

Rodgers is not going to be seen in the statue room.

Okay.

Henry comes in when he gets back.

He comes in and he comes back for five minutes.

Henry gets five minutes.

He comes back for ten minutes.

I'm going to have to, because I've got to be at his portrait.

So now I'll see Rodgers at, uh, what do you think?

No, I don't know.

I want to see Rogers this afternoon.

I'm seeing him at the quarter at the pot.

Don't tell Henry when I'm seeing Rogers.

Don't tell me.

Nobody's going to know.

Just say Henry, come in.

When he gets back, he's back.

So, I have to visit him when I see him.

I never expected to see Rogers before.

Rogers told me earlier on, I'm prepared to talk.

said on the agriculture that in the high Murray business, which he's been working back to see if we can't get it to be open and get Murray in here, which everybody feels would be, not Dole, everybody else, that would be the answer.

What we're doing, and this sort of came out of a joint documentation, is having Harper take more of Murray on the trip Monday at some point.

So we want to get you with Murray for a few minutes.

And then we're going to have to go back on the, he talked to the Marines on the basis of this, and it could take back to Belcher that it just, we've got to have him over here.

It's more important for the long haul for the farm and the party and the page and everything else to have him here than to just have him over there.

We'll have to see what we can do.

For Jerry Boyd about it, a way to break through this to reopen the question would be to have him go on the trip.

And he's not going to go on the trip.

We're not taking any Congressmen.

You're not taking Hardin?

No, sir.

You're not taking, but then what do I see out there?

Well, what we might do is put Murray on the plunge coming back or something.

Excellent, excellent.

See, you can run into an airplane and say, instead of whatever it was going to come back, say, come back to the plane.

Do you know what the time is?

Also, I can see people tomorrow morning.

I better not time set.

I don't want to capital myself to death, though.

I must not think that was a mistake, just because I have the time.

If you don't go to Canada, it keeps attending to the same thing here.

And you still haven't.

That's what I plan to do.

You'll be the leader of something.

I don't think it's important right now.

Right.

Right now.

Right.

But we've got to get this.

We won't go through the cats and dogs.

Harrisville coming out Monday.

Very interesting.

Asked...

the raising public confidence in the job done by the 91st Congress, the last Congress, how would you rate how the Congress has done?

63 to 26, negative.

Job rating in the Congress, how would you rate the Congress?

That's how he does it, the same way he does the President.

Excellent, pretty good.

Only Barrett goes as negative.

At the same time, they asked to raise the president on his re-handling his relations with Congress.

Not as low, also 59-28, but not as low as the rating of Congress itself.

Then they asked if they thought it was better to have the Congress and the executive in control of the same party, and they say continue the way it is, opposite parties, by 49-36.

The reason is that at a time when politicians and politics are held in low esteem, most Americans feel it's good and healthy to have Congress and the executive keeping each other on their toes.

The job rating of Congress, they ask the same question over the years.

In 65 it was 64-26 positive.

In 66 it was 49-42 positive, which was higher now, but it's negative.

Yeah.

Job rating of Congress.

Yeah.

How is Congress doing?

How would you rate the job Congress did?

65, they rated 64 positive, 26 negative.

Yeah.

And 66, 49, 42.

Yeah.

And 67, 38, 55, negative.

68, 46, 46 even.

69, 34, 54, negative.

70, 34, 54, negative.

71, 26, 63, negative.

Well, he gets to that point.

He says,

This is Republicans who like to sit down and talk.

Individual's political orientation obviously makes a decisive difference in his views on having executive and legislative branches under same or different control.

This would indicate that in 72, if Nixon were to try to run a campaign based on lack of cooperation from a Democratic-run Congress, he would run the risk of bucking sharp disagreement with the independents.

Yeah.

Because the independent figures are dividing Congress by 45 to 35, divided executive and Congress.

That's pretty close, though.

Democrats favor dividing control by two to one because they're not in the White House.

Republicans, of course, want the unified control.

He makes the point, by the same token, with all the possible candidates on the Democratic side now sitting members of the Senate, identification with their party secretary in Congress will not mean any votes.

But make a note of- And all the parents hold out?

et cetera, on that.

That's .

In all the Paris Assemblies, on congressional standing, never has the Congress been in lower review of the rank and file of the people.

Just making that point.

This is interesting, too.

The EFs underrate the Congress on specific votes or issues.

Has the Congress done a good job on particular things?

Pollution-free cars, for instance, was 76-15 favorable.

Banning cigarette advertising $64.26.

Favorable.

Sending federal aid to education $59.26.

18 year vote $55.36.

But then, this is interesting, rejecting the SSD subsidy $38.28.

Favorable one way down.

Passing the expanded ADM, 3734, they got support on that.

Passing anti-crime, 3639, negative.

Turning down the Hatesworth and Carswell, 2635, negative.

Overriding mix and detail on hospital bill, 2635, negative.

Not passing mix and welfare reform, 2548, negative.

Good.

Not increasing Social Security 1371, negative.

Not passing revenue sharing 1046, negative.

Well, maybe we've got to get to work on it.

In other words, not everything where Congress did go along with major elements of your religious service program, they got a strong hand to vote.

All right.

It seems to be, yeah, I only stopped for a few minutes this machine, and he goes, I've got a lot of attention on that's what he's asking.

I'm sure you're right.

He's got attention, but my own opinion, which is absolutely true, that nothing happened.

It wasn't anything new.

I knew that.

I mean, we just got a patent.

And by that, we got a pretty good TV treatment.

I can strongly, strongly say, it was too long.

Even the Times didn't cover it all.

You can't give them 60,000 words.

And you can't say something that isn't new in 60,000 words.

They would have said it 20 now.

I got it.

I didn't read the damn thing.

I didn't cut a goddamn sapphire.

I told him to do it, but I don't think he will step up to hand me anything like that, a cutting.

He said, he's a man of the field.

He could do that.

I wasn't about to.

We told him to cut a general.

We sat in the NSC meeting there.

Rogers and Laird said, please cut it.

So what?

He didn't cut a goddamn bit.

I just can't understand it.

I do understand.

It's for its own good.

I don't understand.

Yeah.

Looking back on it, I think they're completely free now.

The right thing to do is radio that.

Not to go on TV.

I go on TV and it's loud.

Right?

Yeah.

Everybody can go on TV.

You would have set yourself up to be, to try to be walked.

To be walked.

They could never walk you to a restaurant.

But they can walk you for staying out.

You know what I mean?

For simply walking.

But they can't walk you for going on radio.

Oh, I don't know.

I think we ought to use it.

I don't think it becomes common.

They're going to use it.

We can buy something good every two weeks or something.

It's a way to get yourself and it's a way, whenever we got stuck, you want to get recorded on a trail.

Like, like, it's a way to give another kick down the road a little ways to, for instance, the health program.

The health program.

Yeah, which you don't want to get on and try to do anything.

The health program and revenue sharing, and revenue sharing, like a message about something that is around.

You've got a revenue sharing, you can do it on each, on the segments.

Yeah.

I could send another congress, or I could send a letter to the congress, or I could send, I could send, I don't know what they're going to do, for instance, on the environment.

Whatever you're going to do on the environment, what legal it is, it ought to be grain standard.

It ought to be grain standard.

The truck, the other kind of stuff, because that's all it's for.

But healthcare people, they just care about you caring about it.

They don't really know what all the plans are about or care.

We've got to care about everything.

And the blacks, the students do, don't you think?

Now I like the idea of addressing the many thrusts and remarks to a segment.

Notice if you want to talk to farmers or blacks or Mexicans, doing this means two Mexicans on the radio, because everybody has a radio, or can get one.

and he can set that up and announce in advance if he wants to speak to the United Nations Mexicans next week and build it up a little bit.

And the Mexicans will come in.

One small notice, sir, that I would mention, and Alex would be good to go.

Tell them.

holly that i never want when i'm doing television i don't want a silver card because he's got this one guy that's sitting here and snapped his weapons a couple of times when i was doing this television clip i don't want silver photography but i mean we have a robot yeah they're not our own either i think all these people

He's the best walker ever.

They don't know that I don't want that seat.

Even our own people, I don't want them seeing it.

Because we've got to play for the big thing, and we don't give one ticker's shit whether we've got a picture of you delivering that television thing or not.

Do we?

No, they give a still shot at it afterwards.

Black dress or dress?

Just tell them.

That's why I couldn't get hurt.

We know Phil's down in the room.

When I do it, I'll just never give it to them.

Well, so...

I, I, I, you know, I go, go, and I, I, you know, they forget it.

Okay.

Just gotta keep reminding them of my rules.

It is an air thing, though.

And you're trying to read the five cameras.

And so, clack, clack, you know.

Yeah.

Well, it's just not, not the right thing to do, anyway.

It is.

The weather here is not going to be bad.

We've got about one minute.

Now, these...

They used, uh, all of them had three minutes.

Okay, I'll give you one more for another.

No, not all of them did.

So the film was really not a rare kind of six-minute film.

No, you got six and a half minutes.

It's wrong to cut six off.

Are you, again, even on the most important thing you're going to do at all, you can't go over two minutes.

They simply won't use over two.

I got five minutes on the Woodrow Black speech or whatever.

No, it wasn't that.

They didn't.

They used a minute.

The most you'll ever get is humans.

I told them this.

Of course, I told them this.

They said, well, they had an executive select.

You know, we got to select.

That's right.

We got to select what we want.

And they did it.

So ABC did a damn good job.

I saw that.

And they dispersed it.

The way they did it was build it up in a very interesting way.

And Gerald did a good job of that.

And they used more than was it worth doing just for them.

They didn't use six of us.

On the other hand, the point was by giving them six, they were able to pick up

I don't buy that.

I don't either.

I don't buy that.

It lets us decide which two minutes we want.

You follow through on that thing.

Don't say we're in San Francisco.

It's just wrong.

No matter what it is, if you're filming it then for the TV news, it should be normally 30 seconds.

But the other thing we have is never more than two minutes.

Who are you to never let the sweet truck have anything to say of what's true on television?

See, this is again, Bill was the ball that worked on the Bazaar.

He's naturally going to want his stuff down.

And I can't make him want his stuff on.

That is not the way to do it.

I think one of the best things you did was when you walked in that day and said, our people don't think you should go on television.

You're right.

I could have done the television almost as easily.

I could sit there and read it three or four more times.

It was a better thing.

Don't you think it was much better?

Yeah.

I had some doubts yesterday.

After I heard the radio, I had some doubts because I thought it was good.

It was impressive.

It was a good speech and well done.

But it was not good.

Don't you agree?

Yeah.

So you just don't want to go on a weird kind of sale of a gun and all that.

If we go on, it's going to be big.

That's the rockers there, you know.

Press conference, conversation, the big thing like that, or the major announcement, the explaining what's happening.

Can't go through that.

Go through that.

They're all safe.

That's right.

They breathe.

Oh, I breathed, breathed, breathed, breathed, breathed.

My God, I loved the brief speech.

I, as I repeat again, I think that radio speech gained a hell of a lot by the, by my cutting eight minutes out of it.

A trigger of death, because another four could come out.

Not much more, because it would be hard to take much more out of that.

Because the tempest is so important, which I'm weak, that was the type of speech.

And he delivered it fast, which was good, because it made you point.

You had a lot you wanted to say.

This is why I did it, because it doesn't feel, you know, it's, I am a man, you gotta try to write something.

I do the same thing, I fall in love with this phrase or that phrase.

I heard it years ago when I wrote an article for the Law School Journal, and I had to get a crowd of them, and they got up to a page and a half, and I didn't say they killed me, but I did it, and I've never forgotten it.

And I don't think a lot of our people here

Real life, if you get each other, you might get accused.

And this Greg Thomas bullshit, I don't think you need it.

I'll let you know when it works.

The view of giving them a smorgasbord of victims was wrong, too.

I agree.

We should decide what's important now.

But it was well done.

I must say, Sidebar did a damn good job writing.

He's a damn good man to work with.

Did it.

I've got to understand a little bit.

What is the, what is the, what is the, what about the gallon?

How did they come out?

We should, we may get it today.

It won't be out for a while.

But Dwight called.

When did they change it?

Two days, last week.

And he talked to them.

So curious.

Two or three times yesterday.

They said they'd have it at four o'clock yesterday.

And before they didn't have it, they said they'd have it today.

I don't know.

They did be satisfied.

I don't think it was a force of action.

They just had to be upset.

Less hope and desire to be captured, not hurt.

That's how...

.

I don't think so.

And then they did this curious thing.

He had a 55, didn't he?

At least that's what he told us.

And he was confirmed because he told the other guy.

He told Dirk that, too, when he was up talking to him.

I know.

He's the same figure that gave us the checklist.

We had a...

I didn't use that.

I didn't use it for a long time.

The only reason it would be interesting to see whether in history we had all this Dan Ashman

Sorry, they're always interesting to get at, trying to get at.

Take a second.

The passages and scrolls you looked at were weirder than last May.

That's not surprising.

That's the pieces you got at last May, so that was when we raised the Cambodians.

Well, we were pretty strong then.

A month ago, you know.

That's why I had serious doubts about Harris, because Beale can't come out with a 62%.

Harris came out with a 48%.

I don't want you.

No.

Beale is the same question as Harris.

That's right.

I forgot to follow up.

He's got something more.

He said he'd send a note out about it.

He said he's got something.

He just couldn't with Harris, apparently.

And, you know, the Washington Post didn't carry the Harris poll that showed you ahead of Buskey on all the issues.

And, you know, many of those issues.

And, uh, Earl was going to hit up on that yesterday.

Yeah.

and firing for it, I would do it.

You know, beyond what happened to this man.

And he said, all right, well, why didn't you carry that with you?

So you didn't keep it?

Yeah.

And I said, yeah, I was going to bring it.

What was that?

I said, I don't know.

Well, why didn't you make that happen?

That is kind of interesting.

He said they were very, much more positive on Nixon.

On Nixon, not you.

Not given the policies and stuff, but just on Nixon.

They were much more positive than they were in the last year.

Things were better for himself.

If we remove the war pin, that will help some.

But, and that will be removed as we make announcements.

We have no illusions that if we solve that problem, they'd leave things to us to spare out and beat our asses off.

Sure, they could.

They'd use the war as an excuse for what?

Economy.

Here you are, you're safe.

Speaking of people being tired, I'll take a look at how tired he is today.

He probably is.

He's probably really, really tired.

I just don't know.

It'll take a while.

I have just doubts whether, I mean, he's got the, oh, the deal is if we can, the boat's not gonna rely on, he's moving on, covering the thing.

Other ways that he's gonna try and use one, so.

I'm going to try to push him in and we'll just sit and be there when he wants to.

Bryce's other thought was using Rumsfeld in this intergovernmental relations deal, which he's going to try to sell.

He's going to try it on that and see what happens.

Which, interestingly enough, Rumsfeld's interested in.

I can't believe he's in the program.

Well, let me give him a firm position.