Conversation 466-009

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Okay.

We have a sort of a lot of non-appreciations question.

I think it represents the expression of a view on the part of the President, Secretary, and the Treasury that we ought to cover utilities with an appreciation decision.

The original one did not do so.

I think mainly on the grounds that the utilities are going to invest anyway, and they were not going to get the, it wouldn't be as stimulative.

Now, I should say the OMB view was then and is today, we agreed with the President and Secretary that we should cover the utilities, and so we'd like to, our recommendation would be to proceed as he wants.

The hooker in this that I wanted to get, particularly get your judgment on, has to do with what it has to do with the budget.

It involves only a small amount, relatively.

It involves $300,000 of debt and loss.

To announce that without any compensating thing would be an announcement that

we have reached that number.

Now, we know that these numbers aren't that exact and everything, but nevertheless, we've talked about this discipline.

Well, I can't read this part of it.

We couldn't do that.

Another way to do it would be to reduce our estimate of how much our interest payments are going to be.

We deliberately overestimated that, you remember, because we could take it down by about a half billion dollars, I think, without any problem.

And that would more than cause the letter sounds better.

Yes, I think it sounds fair.

I think we can delay this for a couple of weeks, I think.

Well, we can't do that.

The utilities, of course, were leading the way, and manufacturing was about even.

The utilities were about 17%, and that's how they came on board, and a half percent.

So this is just giving a little more.

I mean, somebody's always got to get out there pushing a little more.

I just feel, at this time, George, that we've got to do everything we can to... That's one of the reasons I just spoke with John.

I feel better because of the things going on.

The confidence factor is another damn thing you can do if people just don't have it right now.

So that's the reason that I decided that we're going to do what we can to stay walking.

And I don't know whether we can or not, but we've got to try.

Now, the same thing in another way that I believe we should do it, because I think it will have a sense of perspective.

Also, I do think I've heard it, getting back to your question, you don't want to appear to be just a group of irresponsible wild spenders that have given up on our game plan, which we haven't.

Now you can point out that we are changing our estimate because of the theater, and as a result of that, we're able to put it in here.

Is that what you, does that sound right to you?

Yes.

Incidentally, and that's actually an interesting phrase, I hope that when I look more at it, Chase Manhattan has got this race of 5.4, 5.4 this morning.

5.1.

Well, they have a half a point, well, they have a point.

It's another time somebody made a big one.

Our crew will come along in about a month.

Anyway...

Is this not right for you?

Yes, sir.

I think it's completely unquestionable.

And I think the idea of it is not the answer.

You're the expert.

If you feel that's a legitimate thing to say, I'd do it.

We deliberately built this cushion in here and there.

We talked about this.

Now, I just want to be...

You know how tight our budget is.

This is $300 million we don't have now.

I think that's all right.

Right now, the other problem is really cascading the budget issue.

It makes for a real, something we have to ponder, and I don't have a recommendation at this point, but I think the Senate is almost sure to go ahead with a 10% Social Security increase.

Of course.

And that is worth $1.4 billion on the 1972 budget over our estimate.

Second.

particularly after Arthur Burns' testimony yesterday about taxes, which he advised that the Social Security face increase that we recommended.

Well, that is practically the same number as the piece that's in the budget for Redwoods here.

Well, I just, this is why I think we have a problem in Congress, and I talked about this earlier, and I feel that, uh,

So our problem will have to be, when this is done, what are we going to do to keep the budget a bit balanced?

and particularly the way Hartman is placed is leading us into this position.

And we know Hartman from our coffee at me is perfectly glad to see a large load on the net.

And that, that, uh, inflicts with our, our rhetoric and also with what we've seen with myself and my belief about, uh, having stable budgets here.

But anyway, that's what we're seeing.

And there's a partnership that's 180 degrees.

No matter how high it is, the public's all right.

We're serving $3,000.

And of course, our man has the greatest thought that's ever been in terms of all of this.

And it's what I did.

He must be.

What's that noise?

I'm sure that happens.

I'm sure that it must be.

Oh, my God.

I'm sure we will.

I guess putting that together is what I know.

We've got our Mr. 73 budget already.

Well, there's Mr. 73.

Well, that's why I'm always going to have a secretary here because I can.

Well, that's just

73, but they didn't have to hear that deal all by John.

And Mitch was 73.

He mustered the political, as well as other, for our kids to be able to make a balanced budget.

And that is why we've got to move forward.

That is that.

And I agree with both of them.

And now the name is over here.

How about that?

Thank you.

So that's what it is.

All right.

We have been working.

We're moving up another couple of floors into the cattle canner.

It's a polar hunt.

We've got a lot of people who are kind of pushing back and forth with no concern about us.

How does it go?

And again, we're trying to learn.

We kind of plan to finish this over a period of time because there's going to be

federal financing and costs.

Well, and how much it costs at various times is a direct relation to how fast we try to do it.

And our Oscar-designed firm has tried to do it over a period of 74 years.

They have some of the urgency for making quick decisions on the welfare of our businesses to be eased.

A little, I suppose, by the Social Security.

I don't know if that's the question, but I think it's a law.

I don't know if it's a law, but I think that's the question.

He's going to do it, but he should, shouldn't he?

He's not going to do it, but he should, shouldn't he?

Yeah.

That was the problem with the Social Security.

Instead of this morning's work, I thought I'd tell you a bit about just one of the last times I was shooting.

I was ready for it.

I finally got in with everybody.

I had all the chairs around the book.

The number.

I was so excited.

I thought...

So I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,

Let me ask a question here.

What do you mean, Mr. Hart?

Oh, I've heard it.

I mean, no, it's nothing to do with the global industry or anything.

So it's one of the things I think actually people are going to choose.

At some point, probably the next week, I don't know, I'd like to probably, you know, go over and meet and sit down and talk to you about scholars, things like that.

I just don't know how you're going to do it.

Because Germany, Germany, which is where it's now, it's just 15 or 15 dollars.

And, uh, they pick up, they pull this up at six hundred and fifty dollars in one day.

And they get to tell us and tell, uh, all of a sudden, thank you, of course.

I wrote, you know, I'm not one to listen to the concern, but all of a sudden, thank you so very much.

And I, that's what I did.

I just spent a lot of time.

It's good.

It's all right.

All of it is good.

If it could be a matter of consideration, you know, I mean, you all can be, you know, evaluating the hard, free-handed, Dutch market of currencies.

I mean, it would be good if we got back to the United States.

Well, I think that that's not good because it's going to start to be problems.

We're really talking about a lot of problems with all of that.

But the...

Got to come back to New York and then come to what you do next.

I had not seen him this week, so I was not secure.

I didn't trust him.

He was a very, very hard worker.

He was a very hard worker.

What did Jerry talk to me?

I said, I think you ought to see it.

I think you ought to see it.

You can see it by yourself.

And just tell me, tell me what you think he's doing.

I think it's better to come and discipline the gentleman.

You're old friends.

He has great admiration for you.

He's a great friend of mine.

He's a fellow of mine, gentlemen.

He's smart as hell.

He knows the deal.

He knows what the prospective district is going to be, and he's going to continue to do, in my judgment, about what he's doing.

What's the reach?

What should our plan be?

Well, I think we want a confrontation.

It's not in the company we have here.

That's the reason I...

Well, I would say, well, there isn't anything I want out of that.

I don't mind having George, but I don't want you to be the one to do that.

But I want you to be the one to do that.

I don't want to mind who you are.

But if I were to want some point in this game, you've got to work.

You've got to know that it's going to come sometime.

Do you understand?

How the function is that we lost this one.

It's a good thing to have this back.

No, it is real good.

But it is one color that very much can help me out here.

And just so you have some of the better things to do.

Yes, we've got our recipe.

The record's all ours.

It's simply amazing.

And there is dirt.

And I think he's wrong.

He would say, get right out and look for dirt and try to cover it up and lie about it.

Because that does not receive wisdom.

Now, I don't think at that point Obama has guessed that in talking to him, he's not in a confrontation, particularly as the order can be made, as the Senate said that night.

It's that I've asked John to come up here and use me as an argument.

And I know Secretary of Treasury is not quite used to it, but you over here in the House of Regents, the Office of Management, have a little bit of a say about that.

But then you want to take away all of that.

You're here talking about taxes.

I'm going to have a real problem with you if you don't stop me.

And if you use me as an excuse to say that you're talking about that, I'm going to suggest that you just take it to your face.

There are too many of us that are better than this.

I'm telling you, there's just such a chance that you're saying, I don't have to.

On the other hand, on the other hand, we don't want to be in a street or a nice car as well.

And basically, you know what?

We don't care about this.

We go out here to buy a car.

We didn't put that.

And what if we just have a camera?

Let's go where they come.

Let's go down.

The extent of living here is not a great development for us.

Well, construction to me is just literally not able to go well with God.

I think that's a very, very difficult field to attack.

But I'll see what I can do for my time.

You're done.

We can be exposed to locking Russia if you have any further.

Otherwise, I'll expect you to follow through with us with our spectacular plan for Russia.

Thank you very much.