Conversation 467-041

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He didn't want to cause anxiety in Osbury.

He didn't want anybody else.

He said he wants to say, yes, I am, and seeing people and so forth and so on, that it is a plan.

I said, no, Bill, you can't do that.

He said, that doesn't just mean they're changing the area.

I said, no, I don't mean that.

He said, well, they've noticed that you've reverted your lawyer background.

You've never done that before.

I said, Bill, don't you ever hear my hand-painted speeches.

And I've talked all the way through.

Now, the other thing, he didn't have a rooftop.

Now, this is where Ziegler's office is dropped right flat on the back.

He didn't know.

He said, no, Bill, didn't you drop the list in the interviews?

And I said, you know, I saw a site for an hour six or eight months ago.

You know that I saw Dave Wilson for an hour.

You know what I mean?

Would you please get that out to the staff?

Would you do that?

Remember, I said, let me see it, and I'll add to it.

I want him to guess it.

Sure.

We haven't gotten to Sapphire.

We haven't gotten to the building yet.

He's talking about it.

He said, well, bye.

Things have all changed.

He said, well, they said, well, what about the word turner interview and the rest of the word turner interview?

I said, didn't Bob tell you the word turner interview was agreed to six months ago?

Do you remember right at the time of the pandemic?

Yes, I remember.

And Ron covered that with the press.

Yeah.

And as far as Soulsburg, it was an extension of where we came from or something like that.

But he went back and he wrote and said when he was going to be in a trial, a trial.

And I said, here's Sapphire.

He's talking aggressively.

I'm not aware of these things.

I told her at the time of the Duke of Windsor that she came down here and she was doing, she did the kids when she asked about it.

I said, yes, I'll do it sometime.

And she called it out.

What I had to add is I do not, I just don't, but Sapphire is so public relations conscious itself that he may play right in their hands.

And in thinking that we're this new accessibility, trying to down the image, down the bulletin, I don't know who else can do it.

But that's turned out to be a piece of thinking along that line.

He says that he does not want to be here.

But he says he wanted to make it.

He says, you know, I said, I said, you know, first I would destroy the premise.

He said, well, maybe there's some good ideas that we can use.

And it is a good idea.

We've got that.

But if the premise is wrong, it's a premise.

They're lying.

You know what I mean?

They simply are trying to discover something that they've got to find.

And then there's exceptions.

And I think that they will find anything there.

They'll find more with regard to the precedent.

But there...

had it occurred to you to mention the fact that I gave CBS a full half hour of his morning show.

That was not, see that should be done.

I'm actually a bigger doesn't have that all hands.

That's a, that's a, that's an area we got.

That's the kind that I really got to get.

I really want to see the damn line that let me see it and I want to see how much they let me off.

Because we've got a whole source of things we can put in there.

And it's a, this is no new.

I think that's not new.

It is, but probably it's not new.

That's my point.

Yes, it is new in the sense, in the sense that we have the, you know, the meeting with the free network people who came to the free network.

We did have a company office conference.

We had a lot of the women's press.

I agreed to do it just a year ago.

They've been after me for a year.

Let's see the women.

All these functions.

All right, I'll do it every year.

Thank you.

Absolutely, yeah.

Am I wrong?

It is an interview, too.

That morning's the breakfast over there.

Isn't it better?

You presented it that way.

You presented it as well.

You've got the president's masterminders.

And we studied it a little bit.

That's awesome.

In order to get the idea of it.

I'm not sure he's the best one to talk to the President, because I think he tends to think in such public relations terms himself.

He is, when he gets into this, he's sure not, he's good at getting, you know, looking, getting points at them, and then he'll pick up and do something like that.

Well, he may be good on this.

He doesn't know the facts.

I'm not going to let the press say what's going on.

He just ought to have the facts, that's all.

If the facts are to the contrary, they might say so.

The law of presidential interviews.

you know, the summary that we did.

I'll list all of the press things and then, yeah.

His concern, of course, still is the connection.

Such an obvious huckster.

Is it, is it, is it, you said you can see an offensive coming across.

Well, what the hell, let them have their offensive in order to be more available on their own.

Don't let's give them any ammunition for it.

Don't let's admit it to them, Micah.

But do you agree or not?

I just don't believe it.

I don't think you can ever admit that you changed anything in order to do this or that or the other thing.

Not that you changed anything.

You can, you can, you know, move this like, you can make a move.

A strong son of a program, I was there at our event, positive, that's right, at our events.

And you should go back over the events.

The fall off in the state of New York in the next terms was breaking my ass all over the country, do you remember?

I remember all the meetings we had.

And we've said all along, that's the thing I keep saying when they say, haven't you changed?

And I say, of course.

We change all the time.

We're constantly doing things different.

We change people, we change lands and everything else.

It'll be interesting to see how we had at least eight or six of our own staff people on that white line out there.

Like you said.

Don't you do a thing about it?

Let's see if they do anything.

I don't think they will.

I mean, you had Rumsfeld on there.

You had Erling on there.

You had Garvin on there.

You had all the rest.

And let's see whether they see that.

What do you think?

It wasn't just their good hearts.

The point is so that they see, I know what happened.

I can talk to the people in the back.

The point is, what about our people?

Do our people just say, let's go back to their office?

I don't know.

Consistency is where?

What was it that we lost, for example?

It was a grunt smoker.

The point is, why do we do it otherwise?

Actually, we are going to.

But what they do in this one is going to have minimum effect because it was on live television on all the networks.

It would be carried in an evening thing.

I watched it in the barbershop.

Watched it replayed.

It was extremely good.

The way you did that thing was just superb.

And it speaks for itself.

You do need people to talk about it.

You need them to give their reaction.

But the reaction.

And they did it.

They did it on television.

They were interviewing this jackass Conyers here to accomplish them.

and some black in New York at a CBS's two-way interview, and a guy in New York started talking about your speech, and he was talking about what a magnificent tribute it was to Whitney Young.

Not only what you said, but the way you said it, which obviously made the point that Whitney Young had made his point to you, and that you understood.

And then he kept going on and on about how very impressed he was with this thing.

And he obviously was.

I can't even remember who the guy is.

I'll find out.

He played it off with Dan Lowe.

But that kind of reaction, you need to get people talking about.

And the Marshall comments,

the roof, the back, the back there.

When I say this, I would never assume that this is a common point.

I can go on.

I can be on my own and all the rest.

But it is the kind of settlement that is most affecting.

Or a little aside on the ground here and there about what somebody said and what somebody else said.

That's why I'd like to see whether our guys picked up anything.

And it was a good, very good contribution.

It was about half what I had.

It was something in parallel with the other half I had worked on my own notes.

You see my point about it?

It's just a hell of a hard work.

I have some time.

I can't be bothered reporting.

I can't have somebody on the plane or something like that.

That's it.

You just can't expect it every time.

But when you do get one, it happens to come off reasonably well.

It has to be brokered.

That's what I think we've got to do.

Because those things, there are not many people in this country that can do that.

They can get out there and talk for several minutes about a goddamn note.

And, you know, I'm saying that's something that's fairly important to me.

And that's another chance to take off for John Marshall, you know, the Johnson's.

I've done it a hundred times, the Johnson's.

I do it for every arrival.

I do it for every dose.

I've done it around the world.

I've done it at every airport in the world.

I've always done it.

And I really think that there's another opportunity.

That's what I meant.

Rather than the fact that the Congress in New York didn't like it or something like that.

Seriously?

Yeah.

You've got another technical statement.

You made a big, significant thing out of it, I guess.

Well, I'm sure it is good.

Is it, you're the first president in history to deliver a eulogy to a civil rights activist.

Martin Luther King.

Now, would you like to?

Johnson didn't come today.

I went.

I'm sorry.

Not even more than that.

All the more, I'm sure.

But he was a hero then.

Because if it was after he decided not to run, it was right after.

I don't think it was.

Yeah, it was April.

And he quit in March.

It was right after.

It was a week.

He decided not to run on one night, and it was about three or four nights later.

He should have gone then.

He was a big hero.

He could have gone then.

That's right.

Yeah.

Oh, God, yes, everybody else was there.

Bobby Kennedy sat right in front of me.

Yeah, I remember that.

I just made a big point that you were the first president, the only president in history to eulogize a civil rights leader in this country.

Of course, there haven't been a lot of civil rights leaders who were eulogized.

To their great credit, Ray and the boys had the goddamn thing all ready to read, and it was good.

It was good.

It was actually the content that we were taking.

The literary style was better than what I gave you when I delivered it.

But the point is that it would never have had any impact on that audience, believe me, if I had been up there and fully had read that damn middle sheet.

Would you agree?

Absolutely.

Especially with the others here.

The men I met didn't read.

They didn't read their prayers.

They were damned.

The guy with the psalms didn't read that.

Didn't he just recite it?

I think he did just recite it.

The first guy, when he read the psalm, the first guy, he had that.

I don't think he read it.

It was in the Charity.

And that they wrote.

The ministry was all off.

I think she's quite a young woman.

Yeah, she's a very attractive woman.

But also very, several master's degrees in writing, speaking as she did herself.

Yeah.

I'm going to .

He's coming up with a scare headline on SST, suggesting that we gagged HGWS scientists and asked them not to appear at the production on the first cover.

Scientists have denied it.

It's not true.

So what it is is a scare attempt on the day before a hearing to try and interrupt the program on SST.

So I wanted to use a little firmness with the .

Nobody else can get it.

No, no, I'm not going to do it all.

But it really is an excuse to suggest that we're going to go, because I think that's what a lot of students say.

Oh, that's a, that's why you think of a shocking word, right?

What did he do?

What did he say?

Did he lie or something like that?

See, he had a press conference today.

And he said that there's scientific information that indicates that the SST, in this long, expensive way I'm writing this here, will allow ultraviolet rays to come through on paper.

And there's a scientist over at NIH who he apparently talked to about this, who he was going to have at this first conference.

Well, the scientist didn't go to the press conference because he hadn't let him commit.

Proxmire charged in his press conference that the White House had forced the scientist not to come because we didn't want this information to be revealed.

That's totally false to say, oh, that's what you want.

And it's the, uh, it's a message, but I don't know what you mean by that.

I don't know what you call it.

Obviously, he's insecure at this point.

Regarding the assistive, he has to move in this type of obvious direction.

Yes, sir.

Absolutely.

It's moving beautifully on the wires.

Yes, sir.

I'm sorry, I thought the jurors weren't back there.

As they wrote the story, I don't know.

Good night, folks.

Let me see it.

President, what do you want to pick?

This is broken down, the first part being this schedule of appointments.

In other words, specific meetings that you've had in your office.

Or, you know, the place that you chose to CPS in the last office.

Richard Wilson, Bill White, William Ransbury, too.

Carol Hildebrandt.

I was right about that.

It is Hildebrandt, too, a year ago.

Say before that, too.

Say in May of 69, what's that?

Every year.

Yeah.

I just gave a number.

I have the other names.

The number's on the top there.

Forty-seven total.

I think you can see the average is a part of it.

So the first two years.

This is reading over the first two years, the first two years, which is 47.

So it's roughly once.

Twice a month.

About twice a month I have average.

Twice a month for an emergency.

And then you have the same on phone calls.

The next section there is just phone calls to press people.

But I have average too.

You have average about the same?

Yeah, twice the average is the same.

But the point is just whether there's no changes that we want.

Sir?

All right, thanks.

And then I've got to discuss the backgrounders and the CD interviews and conversations.

That's why I'm saying you're exactly right.

So why do you see Joseph Alston?

Why don't you see his?

My point is, I just called Senator Bill.

I want you to be understood.

Here are the facts.

years he has seen in the first two years.

So that's an average of two a week.

And all of that, he has had phone calls, phone conversations with people, members of the press, so much.

And that the average has not changed.

Right.

Last year you had four, one, two, three, four appointments in February.

This year you had one, two, three, four in February.

You had two in March last year.

You had two in March this year.

You haven't had two in January this year.

You didn't have any in January last year, but so what?

I was thinking, yeah, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, it's December of that, of the 69th.

That's just, why is, part of the thing is, you know, we just don't want the ability.

There are stories on the mist, and then you just gotta, that's what it is, and so forth and so on.

has been seen once a year at about this time on his regular trip.

And the Barbara Walters thing, as I said, that then, and I agreed to, you know, you remember a year ago, I told you about that thing, the Wendlandt.

The Wendlandt thing is one thing, but also the Barbara Walters thing, because she was out there, and you came in here, and she sat in the office, and you told her you'd do it.

You gave her, you already did one Barbara Walters thing over in the dining room that morning at breakfast.

Very briefly.

Yeah, but it was still, you let her cover the breakfast.

You know, I stood in the interview with Walters and Kaplan.

That's right.

And at that time, you said you were doing an interview.

And I said, you told Nancy Dickerson you'd do one.

And I told Nancy Dickerson, I did a CBS interview with Bernard Call.

He probably doesn't remember that.

Bernard and John Hart.

That's right.

And so the call by John Hart would have been covered.

And I've done CES, certainly done Henry Brandon several times.

Henry Brandon has been in a couple of times.

I think, uh, I think they nailed it pretty well.

Now the only thing that the CES Henry Brandon this year did, Henry Brandon's last year, the only thing that was really working, I was told he was going to be here, is, well, the, the, the, the one,

The one-on-one, we've had, that's something we've always said we're going to do a charity on, the one-on-one.

And, well, it's just a part of our process.

We've been around different things.

We've tried the root ones, and now we're trying the single trust.

And, but the Bible, I was going to say, the only thing I've really done is that one, the one that's Christ.

Right.

That's something that I had never done before.

You haven't done it with the women's press, but you've done it with, like, you know, this, uh, I had the group right after the election.

Remember?

Yeah, November 5th.

Yeah.

Well, I also had to be, what about, what about the Christmas Eve?

Remember Christmas Eve?

I mean, New Year's Eve.

New Year's Eve.

I had to hold a press over and spend an hour with the men.

And like, chit-chat.

Right.

Yeah.

I don't mind.

I said, I don't mind.

That's true.

They said, God damn it.

We filled out the news conference, December 31st.

No TV, executive office stuff.

That's right.

I meant it was on the record.

I told them it was on the record.

That's right.

And I did the same with a small number of the press.

I did a small number here, November 5th, December.

I did it with the women's press here.

I don't want to recognize these.

I think what it is, it is important.

Let's go around with that kind of thing.

There's some big change of strategy here.

His argument would be that it's good to make it look that way, that you're, you know, if it's concerned about lack of communication, that's what you're looking at.

I know that's wrong.

And God damn it, I'm not concerned about lack of communication.

We haven't communicated.

That's the point.

And the problem is we just haven't done an adequate job of getting to the point of communication exactly.

And you see, my point is that we haven't been doing a lot of communicating.

And it just hasn't been a true attitude.

It hasn't been a true attitude.

And that's all we're doing a better job of.

Also, they're paying a little more attention.

I think another thing that's a part of it.

That is part of it now.

The other thing is sort of the trend of that reverse, the music reverse twist as we begin to come out loud and make these reports and all that sort of thing.

They kind of start squealing the exact opposite.

Do you remember how they were screaming right after they finished Cambodia about the president dominating?

Did you see that on TV?

Never.

Because, you know, only when it helps is when they do that.

Very good.

I heard you.

I'm sorry.

The thing to do is the power.

I did not.

He took that in return.

I'm going to call him and say it.

But that's the other thing.

I think they'll overreact to that.

I still don't think that what's exciting...

he's not very heavy but they don't realize that he is

Both he and I have the stature in the press corps of being insightful students into the office of the president.

It's just pure bullshit.

It just makes no pretense in me.

I hope nobody's talking about it.

I think he should not take calls from him.

Now, that's what you agree?

Yeah.

We agree that's exciting.

I don't really, I'm not comfortable about having the Sapphire Arts work in the president.

I'm just not comfortable about it.

I think he's fine for his quality of care, but I don't think he's good for the president, you know?

He's just a little too slick.

He'll do what he's told.

All right.

If you tell Bill, you know, he argues his arguments and they say, okay, so what?

I mean, you know, that's fine.

But the answer is no.

He's doing it out of line.

He'll say, okay.

All right.

And he's good on the antidote stuff.

And he loves to look for those things.

And he's got a map that most of the people don't have.

No, I reckon I haven't seen one.

No one made any samples on it.

Yeah.

I don't know if he's already had it or not.

He had it.

I don't know.

I worked on it last night, this morning.

These people around here, Garvin might be the only one who would understand what I said about the political matter, about the morality of money.

I've been around here and it's often, what do you understand that concept of what I'm talking about?

But it's something.

I can't imagine anybody would have come up with the line for it.

They all would have been reading the line for it.

I just had to read it before I remembered exactly what it said.

It was close enough.

They were extremely good.

But if you're going to deliver it that way, it has to be that way.

You can't take someone else's speech and just memorize it and memorize it.

But it's a particularly, particularly one, particularly with, there isn't anybody here, there really isn't anybody that can write in my temple.

Sapphire is the closest, but he's too crazy.

and to appreciate Price's particular, which Price did this, and some other good stuff, but it has to be rewritten together in my own sling.

You just cannot hear it.

I had a delivery on that today, which is great.

I thought that was good for TV,

It wasn't any problem.

When you got in that kind of a setting, they had to take, they took the long shot.

And showed some very good touches that, you know, as soon as you sat down and you leaned over and talked to

That daughter, I guess, was that on your left?

Yeah.

And then the Mrs. King.

And then, I mean, Mrs. Young.

And then at the end...

Before she got up, there was some point there where you leaned over and talked with her for a fairly extended thing, and it was an awfully good touch.

It was after the final prayer or something.

We saved that damn ceremony.

They were going to utter chaos.

Well, they didn't know what to do.

And Coffey and Ron Walker worked just, you know, very low-key, but just guiding them patiently, you know, step-by-step to putting something together.

Because it was just a complete shambles.

They didn't have an order of service made up or anything like that.

And they turned it off perfectly.

They screwed it up at the end, and nobody knows it except Vern Coffey, who saved it.

that the guy was supposed to come forward, as soon as they finished the Ashes to Ashes, the guy, the trumpeter was supposed to come forward and do taps, and blow taps, and he didn't.

And so everybody just stood there, waiting, and finally the usher came in and got Mrs. Young, you know, and started out with her, caught me, stopped him.

And said, just very politely, you know, but just as though it were planned.

And stopped them at the entrance there and had them stand there.

And then he took the bugler out and said, you know, go blow his house.

And the guy went for it.

He got mixed up.

The bugler had him come out on cue.

And that part wouldn't have even happened.

And I felt that by that way, the exit worked out beautiful, because then you, after the test, were able to walk forward.

It's awfully good touch there, too.

Pat Nixon was the first one on.

She had sat down.

I couldn't see you on the camera, but she had sat down after Mrs. Young had left, as everybody else had.

And then, as the new girl, the first note of task, boy, she was up like that, and then everybody else took the key.

I was going to sit up, yeah.

And she looked like you.

Okay.

But that was good.

You weren't on camera.

No.

At that instant.

But she was.

That was good.

And it just looked great, because she was up, and then everybody else got up, got up, got up.

But it showed that, you know.

Great touch.

No, I actually, I knew that they were supposed to stand up, but they didn't know how.

I didn't know what to do.

At least I thought they should stand up.

I don't know if they should stand up.

I'm sure they should stand up.

Well, sure they should, because the military salutes.

So obviously, you know, the civilians should stand and work.

But you know, as it turns out, it was a nice ceremony.

It was done through grace.

You did go through all that crap.

I mean, just some couple prayers.

Oh, isn't it?

Isn't this infinitely better than Russia, and New York, and the United States, and all those damn congressmen, chavs, all those bastards.

Much better.

I'm much better.

I'll never go on.

And you doing the eulogy, it was just, it was great.

You don't want to speak at that, I presume.

I don't think you should.

I was presuming they wouldn't want you.

I would think on that you should just go and be, I know, lead the mourners.

In fact, I simply will just go and...

and escort and sit down.

I just wouldn't volunteer anything, right?

I don't want to be just speaking, making eulogies.

I hope they don't ask.

I don't think there's anything much.

I think in the church service and all, it's really, I don't think they'll have a eulogy.

They usually don't, you know.

The churches in Sutherland have a massive,

No, I did not.

I did not.

I just went into the service on Sunday.

No, sir.

I did not.

But those were given to us, those were given to us as a way to sacrifice.

And, you see, the Catholics are the only ones who, and I know them, that do a lot, that do have eulogies.

Anyway, it was funny because I'm here to preach to us, and Teddy Kennedy did it for Bobby.

Yeah, that was awesome.

I was there.

Oh, that was just sickening.

That's been awesome.

Through all that stuff, I'm going to be fencing on this.

That's what I don't want him to be.

I don't want him to concede the point.

I mean, because that was the point that I was concerned about.

I didn't think he had the facts.

I said, no, the facts of this aren't true, that we're doing all these things.

I said, what the hell are they talking about?

He said, well, the worst part are interviewing the solicitor.

About that, I think he knew the worst part was, I agreed to it, as I said, six months ago, at least.

That was something different.

You did Andre Fontaine in December of 69.

Same kind of a thing.

You did one with Lamont in 69.

And you did Henry Brandon in February of 70.

A lot of times with Frank Giles.

So this year he did, I mean, you could say it's a patent, but every year he'd do a foreign paper interview.

And Salisbury, I've got him here every time.

Salisbury, he'd do every year.

He's an annual feature.

He comes on his trip to America, and I asked to see him.

He asked to see me, and I knew he was working there.

I had heard since I was vice president.

All right, I think that should be it.

I don't want him to think that.

Here's the point.

The satellite that you see doesn't exist.

These guys tried to write it.

It wasn't wrote to the effect.

But I called in some.

false.

Well,

I think he kind of likes the idea.

He's intrigued with the idea as well.

He's pretty smart to do this.

And it's really hard to do.

But God damn it, you know we're not.

The president aligned with us in a different way.

The point we've made and the point that you've made

And it's a very sound point, and it explains all of anything we do, is that you are, have, it was an answer to the question of why don't you have more press conferences a year and a half ago or something, and you said that you will have press conferences when they serve the purpose of communicating with the public, not when they serve the purposes of the press.

And that's the point of these interviews.

And anything else that you do, when it serves the purpose of better communication, you utilize it.

And you utilize all different means, and you change the mean time you use, and you try new means.

So we're allowing them, allowing them.

They certainly didn't suggest that.

Maybe Ray Price isn't going to work.

Oh, they did not.

Maybe they did not.

Maybe Price didn't.

Oh, they didn't listen to my counsel.

You heard me talk about the fact when I was as poor as I was when I was a kid, right?

And about my Quaker mother.

And the fact that she didn't want me to go to work.

Did you listen to the acceptance speech?

For Christ's sake, son.

Not at all in the acceptance.

You do it different ways, naturally.

No, you see what I mean?

I don't think, I don't really think he knows.

I think what happens is that they get to sit here and just stand breathless.

And the mythology goes, and the minor piece of what was fascinating to me is that he, who in the last half dozen columns, he just digs at me.

He just digs at me.

For no reason.

Colson was talking to me the other day and said, was asking me to talk to Timish on something else that he's got any work on.

I said, fine, we'd like to, but you know, what else is?

Well, it turns out, Timish tells Colson, the reason he's been doing that is because I sued him by not letting him in to see you on the article he was doing for Sports Illustrated.

on Nixon, the sports fan.

I never even heard about him.

Yeah, you did.

You interviewed him.

And so I looked at this thing.

You talked to him on March 27, 1969, to Timish about sports.

Sure, I could put it in an article for Sports Observer.

I said, just ask Timish what he did on the afternoon at 3.17.

I'd get the log out.

You know, I knew what time he'd come in.

I said, ask Timish what he did at 3.17 on the afternoon of March 27, 1969.

He went back and asked him.

Timmy said, I don't know why.

He said, you got an interview with the President of the United States regarding his interest in sports.

Timmy said, oh yeah, that's right, I did.

And his whole case on me has been that I refused to let him in.

When he actually got in.

But Timmy's kind of still believing that.

But what happened is then Eisenhower died the next day.

And Sports Illustrated and we, they called us and asked us,

both agreed that a cover story on Nixon the sports fan on the day of the Eisenhower funeral would not be a good idea.

And they dropped the story.

But that, you know, it's a strange thing.

That story never did get run, which is too bad, because that was a good story.

I mean, you can write it again.

It should run again.

I see him now.

He's over it now.

He was, but he's asking to make a deal, too, but he hasn't let it on something else.

We've always let it on.

We've sunk it out.

It didn't boil down to anything.

Good.

I'll do it again next week.

for a moment to be very important to highly intelligent, not highly intelligent, but sophisticated people.

And there's a hell of a lot of people, other than lawyers, that are interested in jurisprudence and philosophy.

And what I was quoting right here was where Fuller's and Storber's lecture at Yale, I don't know if this came up or not, so we should give it a look.

I said, I heard.

Did you quote it without, did you not check it in the book?

No, I read this, though.

I read this the last time I was in Florida.

Did you pull that out last night?

Oh, no, I'll check the quote.

I remember that's the best thing.

I remember that he referred, well, I just, I didn't remember much.

I don't want to go over each other, but I kind of remember.

I remember that he referred to morality in his first season chapter.

It was called Two Moralities.

I had this reading, and I thought, you know, the morality of duty and the morality of aspiration.

So I wrote it down.

The fascinating thing there is that you didn't check the quote until you got back from the speech and it's for the book.

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that I had it right up there.

I didn't have a full book.

I just said, no, you said you referred to the morality of the good in his lectures.

To the two moralities.

Morality of duty and morality of aspiration.

You can expand on that.

Yeah, we can't be here.

We can't be here.

We can't be here or anything.

do a little thing like that, and the goddamn press corps would really write it up.

They won't do a thing like that.

I can pledge it to be the same thing.

You're done with the Wilson thing, and the rest will drop right down in the Gulf.

But the point is, Bob, that's why I say we've got to do something with it.

I really feel that about this one.

Now, this is their issue.

They don't care about Wilson.

They didn't care about John Quincy Adams.

They didn't care about Nebraska.

This is a different thing.

This is their issue, you know, all the damn civil rights stuff.

And I really feel our people like, I mean, like, I'm not going to be a hell of a citizen on this, especially this one, yeah.

Don't you think so?

Yeah.

There can't be a touch of having Jim Farmer with us on that thing.

That's all right.

This brings him back some.

And also, he is, it was fascinating to watch going into that thing.

Jim Farmer is a very big man for those people.

They don't recognize our guys.

What's he got to do now?

He just writes books.

Maybe he did over at Urban League.

I think that's right.

It's almost over.

and when they're all pushing.

You know, as the leader of the whole, I don't know whether it be

I use the term, it's a certain word, store of lectures.

Yeah.

Do you want to take one more?

Sure.

Well, that's what got us sprouting.

You know, we thought it was a story like this.

Oh, my gosh.

I'm used to it.

I remember when I was a guy.

I could probably say, I really feel some goddamn helpless here.

I just don't think we can do anything good.

We don't have any credit for it.

I know.

I just don't think we can.

I think we're pissing in the wet, Bob.

I should have tried.

A lot more of them are trying harder.

They try harder on this particular point.

How about the old door?

Is that taken care of?

That's not all true, is it?

You mean the line?

Yeah.

Well, we use it in the nation, I think.

Yep.

Or party things and all that.

Yep.

All right.

That's the kind of thing we've got to go back, you know, keep going back to get it in, and then tend to move on to something else.

So...

I have talked to, I have talked to Alex at times about the state of the proposition.

I don't know why.

Remember I said the policies we ought to discontinue state gifts and just give pictures.

I'm not sure it'll work.

What I'm getting at, and I see Hassan as an extra, or I wish that I was ready to get him, but he can't run with me.

They always do.

That's possible, and they may be.

So would you, I just, I would just get to it.

It's just really played in my ear each time.

They want to, that's not happening.

No, I don't think it's played in my ear.

Let's either, I think we may as well have them and put them all in the library.

They're nice things to have on, right?

It's just an international tradition, isn't it?

Go ahead and tell, will you reverse all of us on that?

I'm just quite a politician.

Each year it's wrote in and then being wrote out.

You've got to name a school.

a technical high school, you know, for this damn gun.

And he thinks he wants us to, and I said, we should have.

He's cynical, son of a bitch.

And he hates Whitney.

He didn't want us to come to Kentucky.

Louie didn't.

He said, he said, I won't, you won't catch me in that goddamn funeral unless the president comes and I'll have to go.

Yes, sir.

I think I just, because none came to mind, you know, he said it makes him mad that, you know, he suffered.

Maybe you are?

Monday doesn't quite get across.

But we're changing Monday so that it will get more across.

But that still doesn't do it.

That gets to a lot of people, but doesn't get enough readership.

A key list type, got to get the...

Continuing good news.

Curious thing that you ever hear of?

Can you report on anything that happened in the story of the call and police supply?

No, ma'am?

No.

And your own PR got right in there, Gary.

Gary Anderson's staff .

And I think it's an honor to invite Rodgers to that.

Henry Asticola, .

He also has .

Rodgers used to work with me, too.

I don't think he should.

I don't think they need to.

I'm just going up and back.

Well, if it means anything in terms of... Let's see, yeah, it's a quarter.

Oh, good.

We've got about two weeks.

See, Javits has kicked us around.

I know.

If we take Javits, we ought to take Buckley.

I mean, we ought to ask Buckley first, and if he can go, then also take Javits.

I agree.

It's hard not to offer the Senators, having taken the lunch to Kentucky...

Well, I need to ask Javis, let me vote this way.

Ask Bucky.

Bucky says, no, I just don't invite Javis.

I guess somebody says, you know, we can't take one vote.

He says he's got to take a vote.

Well, he has to go to the companies.

I got a lady who's got to ask him.

Javis said that a lot of others have to go to the company, too.

I think he's got to ask him.

He's got to go to the company.

The writer should be asked for all these reasons.

They did very well with the demonstrators there.

They had one sign that came out.

They had one big sign.

They tried to get that out of the way.

They had a lot of signs.

Yeah.

Priority of the war and the amount of tributes around his grave.

What's that?

That's their church, their yard.

Oh, sure.

Their cemetery.

They're nothing their own people.

They let the cripples be there.

We didn't let the cripples.

You know what I mean, sir?

I'm talking.

I just can't.

Anybody, they don't score a bunch of .

They have a few people, but very, very little bad people.

It's amazing how many people, you know, especially the blacks.

And the little kids, that one cluster of black kids, huge cheer.

Couldn't say, couldn't do it any farther.

You don't have to, that's, it really, you know, the other water reactor, it bothers me that the other, where the hell were we?

We went out and worked the fence again for a long shot.

And you just don't need to do it.

Who knows if that may be the case when we arrived at Quonset Point.

Well, you know the reason we did that.

Don't worry, I didn't intend to work at that place.

But the difficulty was that

that Markson had gotten us there 15 minutes early.

And he said, we've got to waste 15 minutes of time.

Oh.

Oh, shit.

I didn't worry.

That was the reason for that.

Okay.

I'm not at all worried.

Because it's the wrong thing to do.

I feel this.

Those people, I was just thinking about it, you know, and watching that.

Those people didn't come there to shake hands with you, sir.

They came there to watch your airplane land, right?

And watch you get off of it and get on the aircraft.

It was over at Jake Andrews 3.

So then we agreed.

And at that one, I think it was a good idea to speak.

But let me say, the reason we did it, I don't understand.

I don't understand.

And Larson said, well, we're just 15 minutes early.

And I said, it's going to throw them all out of kiln.

He said, it's going to waste it.

If you could waste 15 minutes, it would be good.

I mean, don't blame Larson.

I won't, but that is exactly what happened.

And all of a sudden I was stuck there on the ground.

I just want the staff to understand that I am not doing this damn fence thing.

I don't like doing it.

You should do it.

You should go over, as you said, go over and shake three hands, hit one spot on the fence, shake a few hands, then move back, wave to everybody, try and lay them, you know, look down, and if it's a long line fence, we'll run a little out of the car by so you can go by and wave as you go along the fence.

I got Pat to visit one time.

She says that I couldn't agree more with her.

She's now agreed that in the evenings, the White House will not have to see her eyes in the future.

Good God.

She said, what I should do at the end is to go in, just like we did the military reception after we received her body, is go in and name a woman and have a diplomatic reception.

Just by that, go ahead and shake him.

And I said, well, we'll have the staff bring him up to you.

Well, they don't do it very well.

They don't.

You don't do that well.

But the State Department does do it well.

You've got to get the State, you've got to get him a collar.

He brings people up.

But give him our finance types and the rest.

Now, CODIS and those guys can do that damn well, too.

They can learn the protocol, too.

They can say, that's their military job.

It is not their initiative.

But it's great for the civilians.

They do a beautiful job.

But Bob, when we had, kind of all we had to do was, see, those lines, that line last night, was a very tiring one, you know, because I had to do that kind of work in this little talk.

It took an hour and 20 minutes.

You know, and that, of course, that was what you had to do.

You couldn't have avoided the line last night.

You couldn't have just done it because of the, that's right, because that's the announcement.

And then a man, on the other hand, she saw how tiring it was, and it's happened.

So why go in the future?

You tell us, great, perfect.

We go out, shake your hand, everybody makes you there.

Hi, goodbye, off you go.

Remember that?

The Christmas party, I want you to stick your eye out, shake your hand, everybody.

It was great.

I promise.

It's like touching the dance.

Touch it and get out.

That's right.

You remember, if you don't, we travel abroad and take the tree on our trip.

You got the Royalty there.

Is that Franklin who saw you there?

You just walked through the goddamn room.

You shake hands with anyone.

And then you sat down.

That's what Royalty does.

That's what the job is.

And you can come darn close to that.

I think we should have come to it.

I agree.

I think they like it better.

I think it's too damn common to get out there.

Must have got chicken hands.

Except for a picture.

But after you've taken three years, you've got the picture.

You're absolutely right.

And he suggested that we ought to package our reforms and listen.

You know, he keeps talking about this.

Would you put the best PR person you've got on that?

And he said it's a hell of a program.

You know?

See, he's got a point there.

Not just the sixth grade goals, but the reforms, you know, and the whole 50-grade reforms.

Whatever it is, you know, the let's get it packaged, put something like that.

Second point, the PR side, the crime part.

Put your second best PR guy on that, will you?

Third point, the administration trademark we still haven't got.

The way the Congress is sitting on everything we've got, that's going to be hard to get across, isn't it?

I think we're making a mistake by not staying with it and not handling it.

I mean, you're still going through my resolution.

And who hasn't played back the generation of peace that I was passing?

That was yesterday morning.

And that's what you want to get, is talking about that so that other people play it back so that it does become the trademark.

And he said it there, it stuck in his mind.

It was damn impressive.

Klaus made a point without intending, without knowing what I was trying to derive on, but I'm sure you will see.

I haven't even thought about it.

But he said, did you realize, did he say, did you realize the enormous, uplifting effect the fight has had on this country?

I did not, you know.

I'll take New York.

He said, first of all, there were 25,000 or whatever it was in the garden and a few other theaters and the rest.

But he said there were at least a half a million people on the streets.

There was excitement.

He said they lined up in blocks because they were curious and knew there was nobody there on Monday night.

And that 21 entrance was open at 4 o'clock in the morning.

Everybody there talking about the fight.

There have been smarty-cats on it since then about the chemistry, the dramatics and the fun.

It was sort of like a Super Bowl and so forth.

I'm sure you've heard of it.

driving me exactly what he was trying to say.

What is needed here is not, it isn't just a fight, it's an event.

It's like the first moon landing.

The first moon landing was good for this country.

It had been the same as if they'd gone to the center of the earth.

It made a goddamn difference where they went.

But the point is, it had a dramatic effect.

People liked to be caught up.

It's not a great event.

They want to be taken out of their humdrum existence.

What we've got to do is to find, not to make a vent on what we do, but to find ways to catch them off.

They see that, and that really did, and caught the whole nation.

And all of it, it paid 30 bucks a seat to go into the goddamn theater and look at it on television.

Well, he can.

Bought the tickets for himself and his brothers, took his two kid brothers and whatever he's got and sent them here in Washington.

They'll be bucks a piece for the tickets.

Making a commitment for either, I think, West Point this year, and I think I told you in Annapolis next year, I've got to do both while I'm in this office.

This is figure out which is the best year to do each one of them.

And we talked about not necessarily doing Commencement Saturday.

Well,

I just wondered.

You're right.

A parade and a convocation that's featured on you instead of you going up and down in the middle of your mess.

You're right.

I forgot.

I'm not sure that I said it.

I like it better.

Right on both.

But it seems to me it's sure worth considering.

That'll get you out of, why didn't you do an academy commencement and won't do a college commencement?

The other thing is related to what I said earlier.

If you will be sure to follow up on the mail-out, for example, a couple of people last night were receiving, they hope we mailed out that speech I made at the OCS Newport.

military, and a lot of other people.

They said a lot of people ought to see that.

That's probably the idea.

It was a very short speech, you know.

And it got, you know, a little play, a picture play because of David, but it's an awfully nice name.

And it's a very important theme.

Now the other thing is, remember I pointed out we had to mail out the art and the agriculture thing, follow up with the Wilson thing, follow up with the Nebraska thing.

The reason these mail outs are so important is that they allow us to reach these audiences.

Have you been able to talk about any of it all by my hands?

No, I haven't.

I'm curious about that, if that's the case.

This kind of thing I know is not encouraging for our speech writers.

What they must understand is that every time they can plant one idea in my head, it's a hell of a success, you know.

Like they planted an idea, they did it happen to them in the ads, and I was like, I'm going to do a little extra reading on that.

That made no difference, because the ideas they planted were only used by the other guys.

But they did it in the rules, you know, and good.

You're amazing.

No, that's not funny.

I think he got jacked with it.

You know, did George have anything like to order or what's the situation?

Yeah, you're all, uh...

It's going to be done tomorrow or the other day.

As a matter of fact, we've got something we want to do.

Uh, Bob was here, Bob, all of them in the kitchen.

That's when we got, when we discussed it.

And frankly, we were just trying to, all of us were trying to dance around it.

So was he.

Uh, he says he's been pinned on this.

He doesn't know what the hell to say.

And the, uh, uh, the, uh, the, uh,

And frankly, I just didn't make any commitment at all.

The best, the best we could have, I'm not sure, even though I'll realize that because I have seen the other side of the prediction, that $15,000 in the predictions.

Oh, here's where it went out.

We left it wide open the year.

And so he's looking for guidance.

So he'll just call it down and tell them that I asked you to give him some guidance.

Did you do that?

Because he's looking for guidance.

And I said, well, I actually don't know what position to take.

I just don't see anything that looks very good.

And he said, well, we got to be for something.

And I said, well, probably so.

He's the best.

I think we have to use him on this, don't you?

I don't want to concede too quick.

But do you have any other views as to who else they're going to force?

Yeah.

He's the logical man.

I'll tell you how all the other clients are on each other.

Yeah, he's the best man.

He's the best man.

He'll do it.

I said, I didn't want to tell you to come back today.

I did have a several of those things.

Louisiana.

Yeah, I live there.

Well, I'll give George a call and I'll get him okay.

I think he ought to reuse this thing as this speaking without notes field.

I think that's a good sign for this.

I get a sapphire before he gets to a few of these.

I'll get sapphire on that, but I get Len going.

Len can spend, you know, a good chunk of time for the next couple of days.

But he's watching the water.

He knows it's a vehicle.

I get it.

It's how he feels about it.

Do you feel like he wanted to go?

Senator Scott, he wanted to see the President.

See if he can come down right away.

If it works out for him to come right now, the problem is the President has to leave here at 6.

So if he can't come right now, it won't work.

Then we'll try to catch him later.

If he can come, then see if the Attorney General can come over.

No, because if he can't come, I'll sit him or something.

Cover it some other way.

It would be better to have him turned down.

Sure.

We've in fact been pushing off on these signs like they ever did.

I've been turning off most signing things on the basis that, you know, there is one that they're pushing here that might be worth considering that we could do right after the press conference on Friday before you go, which is a House Resolution 16 as a joint resolution on National Week of Concern for POWs and Missing in Action.

people that it might be that that's one you want to do.

Just one more gesture.

Next week is the week of that.

What they have is the congressional sponsors, Frank Borman and the executive committee of the National League of POWs and MIAs.

So be it.

Whatever you would have used, press conference and all that.

Yeah, I think it would as a picture started.

The press conference won't give a picture.

It won't run a picture.

And...

That's what gets them.

Why?

It's because of that.

And also to get some money with those people.

They have their own house organs and all that stuff, you know.

Makes them hate others.

I think it's worth it.

Jared.

Jerry Ford said, I don't know what they're going to do, they're going to run around this hill, deal with things like this, that he's got a high school choir that's going to be here, and he wants them to sing one song in the Rose Garden after our White House tour.

Some of that kind of thing, once in a while, maybe is worthwhile.

I don't know.

His point is it's a good, wholesome group of young people.

The fact that it's a high school wouldn't be good.

I don't know what I'm saying about that.

I wanted to have that demonstrated.

This group sang at the Republican dinner in Grand Rapids a couple weeks ago, and they'd been on a tour.

They'd take the White House tour, and what they'd do is run around here, and you'd just come out, and they'd sing one song to you, and you'd shake hands with them.

Oh, yeah.

No, no, just to the leader.

Shake hands with the leader and sing.

It was great.

I don't know how much we kept out.

99% of that kind of junk showed that you can't run through an open office, I heard.

I agree.

Go ahead, Mr. Secretary of State, please.

Secretary Rogers.

Running around on this national newspaper association, I just wanted to... No, sir.

It's the small town papers.

Oh, wow.

I've got to remember that.

It's the, you know, we put this... What is it, a convention?

They're having this government workshop, and it is the whole...

It's a leadership group from... What?

Why don't you do...

and we'll leave here at approximately 2 o'clock.

No, about 2.30, 2.30 to 2.30 Friday.

So if you'd like to go, I want you to know that I'm just asking, I'm going to ask you to go.

So we'll just work at it here about that time.

Now, I probably will have to do something to compress shortly before that.

I'll just do that and take right off when you are...

deal with the ship.

There only was one man.

Well, I think Iowa State is frankly doing a few of the domestic things across, which, uh, that was all I know.

It's true.

Thank you.

And the, well, we didn't, I delivered, but you know, sort of had to throw off the engagement then because everybody knew it, you know, that thing was in the papers, so.

But that was, but they handled it by pointing out that everything else leaked, so why not this?

I think it didn't handle our, yeah.

Yeah, it did feel nice, I thought, yeah.

Yeah.

And they, you know, you didn't say it, but they told me they had a great chance.

You know, Eddie Cox had a little harder chance.

And they, I hope Doug and Jeff stay, because later on, Dennis Day sang, and

President Murray played the saxophone.

Yes, you know, he's a sax player.

And President Murray played the saxophone, and they were going to the 2.30 a.m. hello party.

And I just hope that the young people say it.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's too bad.

That's too bad.

He was in great shape, though.

He had just played golf in that way.

And Dwayne Andrews, he had told, he had been told by his mother-in-law that he was going out to the White House.

He went back to get dressed.

He was coming out for this party.

And he was popular.

Ah, it is time.

We had disability, that one thing was nice too.

Because how, you know, when the game ended I was like, what do you want to see how I did tonight?

So I asked him to do it, he did it, you know, and he was trying to do it.

I mean, he did that intelligence advisory thing, which is the only thing where it went on action.

But he did, but he had, he lived a good life.

Oh my God, he was 68 years of age and he had everything.

Well, there wasn't pretty much more for him to do, you know.

You know, you really start to think about what mark did he have?

Well, he had all the laurels except the presidency, and he came down close on that.

And he had the best friends in the world.

He was a wealthy man.

He had enormous respect for his profession.

And, you know, that's a peak.

That's a peak.

And I think, frankly, that, you know, I've been around, and I've seen quite a few people focus on that.

The Irish Prime Minister, that was a nice little, where I mentioned he never lost an election, and he said, I'm coming back.

I wasn't having a nice thing to say.

Yeah.

And he didn't know what I was going to say.

It was a splendid idea.

And then he just banged it right back.

And it was a very, very slow thing.

Each of these rears are present on this thing.

You know what it really is?

It was turned out a lot for the Irish in San Diego.

We could have had them for a student, but I wouldn't have made it to clinical.

But while it was a secondary story, the whole world knows that the Irish were here now.

Yeah.

OK.

Yeah, she's gonna be in the yard, so we have to stop, wheel by the air and pick her up.

On the way up, the church is very close to the pier.

But she'll be up there early one day.

Yeah, right, here she comes.

No, no, no, don't find her yet, all right?

No, sir.

All right.

He's asking if he can go up to the duit, you know.

Yeah, he probably should, yes.

And actually get around him.

That was his spot on the play.

Right.

He could talk to you for a few minutes.

He would like to go up there.

Why don't we make up a pretty good list there?

I don't know.

I don't want to make a whole yard of obligation up.

He's a national figure.

Go ahead and he's a national figure.

Scott goes because he was national chairman when Dewey was running, wasn't he?

Yeah.

Didn't Scott manage one of the, wasn't he chairman of one of the Dewey campaigns for you?

Who will that be?

He saw the war in 1900.

I don't know what that means.

He should be going some faster.

I don't mind.

I know.

If you call in and ask me to stop, I'll just give you five times more like this action.

I'll just give you a riff-raff all the way, so I can never go on with eating.

But I'm not going to do another thing till the editors come on the 8th, and I'll miss you tomorrow.

Maybe just...

I've got something to eat on.