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Another from Buchanan.

He's making a case against a full generation of these.

This account seems to be moving from a vague hope to a mere commitment.

While it has some appeal to a war-worrying people, there are serious dangers in it.

For a sister presence placed in history, we only have partial control over whether we're going to war again.

By making the statement about this is our last war, the President is leading some dictator of communist government to make a fool of him by limiting aggression against one of our treaty allies.

It's going to put the impact on those who are our allies.

The last war statement may turn out to be a chamberlain's piece for our time, promising something which we alone cannot deliver.

I mean, he's got a point, but it's

You've got to keep both things going.

You see, the Buchanan problem, Buchanan's...

He oversimplifies it.

Well, he doesn't oversimplify it.

He states accurate facts, but he's not aware.

You've got to follow Buchanan's advice.

He's a purist.

And he says, well, what is the truth?

We just told him the truth.

We told him everything.

We told him about the killers.

Well, that's what I should know, except that they've got to have some hope that we're doing something, that we're accomplishing something.

Especially at this point.

And also, Don, the other thing about that, the other thing about the last, but if you can't insult us, therefore, you've not even read the interview, but you've read it carefully, but what did he simply say?

It wasn't as far as the United States was concerned.

He turned in major.

He talked about making a war.

He said there would be brushfire wars.

I said there won't be brushfire wars.

He said there wasn't brushfire wars.

Did I use the word there will be...

And we couldn't control, I said, what could happen in Africa and Asia and other parts of the world.

I understood that.

This would be our last war, and then you said it.

It will be.

But what are you going to tell them?

I think you've got to say that.

And I don't think it fits in a peace for our time kind of thing at all.

Because it fits in a totally different posture.

I think it's also in terms of a more warlike posture.

I think what's bothering him is defense policy, the posture, you know, and the psychological disarmament of American people.

I think he wants to crank them up.

I think he can and probably will have to, but you've got to get over this deal before you can go back up now.

That's it.

You are going to crank the people up to honor at this point.

You can't crank them up to go fight someplace else right now.

Like Israel, right?

Is that where we're going to fight?

We're not going to fight that stuff.

We want to be so good.

We're going to get this white hole American participation.

Of course, there's a whole crowd.

It's based on the assumption that America must maintain the strength to deter the war.

So that's the other proposition.

Which goes to your whole thesis in the DuPort speech.

And this past kind of work on the redo of the DuPort thing for Dole and doing that may help him out of this concern too.

It builds the other thesis.

I must say, though, the full generation of peace is one of the few things that's been repeated back to us.

What does any member of the staff come up with?

You don't have anything except the depredators.

I think you've got to keep talking about something, don't you, Rod?

I even think the boomerang revolution, I think, is sure impressive.

I think it was Washington.

You've got to, Eddie, every time you talk about domestic, you've got to throw that in there.

It's been bought.

It's been accepted.

But it needs to be driven home.

It's been accepted as being a revolutionary post.

Yeah.

Now, uh, college, well, they jumped on us for oversawing it, but nobody's arguing that it isn't a revolutionary.

No.

That the sweep of it was revolutionary.

Well, we need to keep her alive.

It's basically our own staff.

and the cabinet team and so forth.

The guy that got through, Bob Franklin, he knocked off balance by the temporary, you know,

What we're really talking about is that we've got to set a goal.

The American people have got to set a goal.

And the goal is that the way they have a full generation of peace is to end this war in a way that doesn't reward aggression and to keep America's strength.

Your goal can't be to be strong.

Your goal has got to be to be strong.

Your goal has got to be peace.

The way to avoid peace, the way to have peace is to fight a war, or be ready to fight a war.

Well, you can't say that fight anymore.

That's right, but it isn't the right way to think.

It won't quite work at this point, Bob.

Somebody that's independent, a psychologist,

On the other hand, I don't think you can have any trouble selling the maintenance of a strong defense posture.

Particularly if it's four piece.

Yeah.

You can get out of fighting the war and then go for strengthening defensive capability.

That's close enough.

Would you ask General Wilson to come into the residence office, please?

I have sensibly tried to make a point with John, and I'm sure you can see it.

Bogey and George have gotten out.

They don't need the therapy.

They've got to bring people in for their meetings, because most of them, they agree, and they discuss it.

It'll take us only 15 minutes for them to do a meeting.

Do not inquire.

They don't bother me enough that I don't get shivers in the room, you know what I mean?

So let them all come in.

No, you agree.

I think it's good to have a little gadget in here.

You see, I want to, like I said, on the defense recently, you can't vote.

Because they're just too damn confidential, a lot of the stuff.

I don't want people to know the truth.

I don't want to talk in front of a lot of people on the terms.

You can't.

There, I'd be good if I had.

Hey, we don't, but I can't get something.

Not for therapy, because he doesn't need to come there, but I just think it's a good thing he can have it.

I'm trying.

Oh, John, I'm sorry.

I was trying to get everything.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, yeah.

You true?

Are you with us, buddy?

Oh, well, I, uh...

Well, I'll tell you, I think they, I think, is Colson coming?

I got Colson coming in.

He'll come over maybe about 9.30.

What's your schedule?

Is that free?

Easy free?

Fine, fine.

I got, I got the, I talked to Morrie.

He gave me a little report this morning.

I'll give you the same one.

Do you have anything from Hayes?

Well, what they said is, that's the point.

They said they were going to be pulling out of this, but they're not going to.

The first division is staying where they are, and they're going to, in fact, raids on April 5th and 1st.

And that's, what is it, Hong Kong or whatever, I don't know, area.

So, yeah.

Well...

They decided the point is, if they're coming out, that is to make what it is, like you pointed out yesterday, make the best of it.

And it's pretty damn good.

It's gotta be an art, some of that.

All right, fine.

Oh, wait, let me go out here.

There, I know, there, fine.

Next week, Thursday night, I believe.

It's not that easy.

Fortunately, you're talking to John and George.

You don't have to promise them anything.

Basically, they don't mind bringing other people in.

They certainly share everything.

I think they like you, and Johnny and George helps them out with their job.

Except there are some things they want to race with you, except without people.

When I say a good way, in the best ways, if you have good, competent, staffed men who are totally honest and objective, they'll give you the points, like he did here on this Flessinger thing.

Now, I could have the whole group in here, harrowed, and would have spoken for 20 minutes about what ought to happen.

Morton would babble around, so Morton, I got it done in ten minutes, and just as well came up with the track that John suggested.

I said, why don't you use it?

And he said, no use.

And I don't say it now.

What I said was it would save an hour.

Well, I thought that Harlow said that I would know him, and I know what he said.

And Gordon, I always support him.

that Gordon Elligan's a pride baby and he'll be, he's always a pride baby.

He'd be worse if you don't do this.

I would recommend you do it.

He digs in the heart and told me that.

I know that already about Gordon.

But I think the important thing there is to leave it to him and tell him what he needs to say.

How are you?

What's your latest essay?

The Vice President has...

Can you send me a report on this thing last night?

Pick it over for us.

Something about CBS.

Notice, man, that I praised his hunger program.

I was true.

If I didn't praise it.

You said that they beat you up.

I said a program on CBS on hunger.

I was in.

It was a lot stronger ground for the Vice President to attack that program on, but he had the effect of where he made the attack most in his speech.

Who voted in there?

I don't know, but it wasn't the best speech that he's given.

Were you there?

No, sir.

How'd you hear about it?

I read it last evening.

How'd the speech go?

I haven't talked to anyone who was there, but Will this weekend.

He has written a speech that he thinks somebody ought to give in the next few days or so.

builds on that you're showing up on the hill of the cbs and nbc bills and models and it goes on takes the press on how they've screwed up their coverage of the war does a lot of bullying from the comments and all that it's not well written it's a terrible mess which is surprising you can't but uh

some of the points that ought to be made now.

Maybe he knows it has to be good.

Yeah, it's the first draft, I'm sure, where he just wrote that and everything he wanted to get said.

I think we've gotten to the point in the CBS where somebody has to throw some blood in there.

A-Pair is going to have to go on.

reported while in the wire services although it didn't hit the Washington papers demanding that they either show the films of the Simpsons showing on the hill or apologize for having questioned their veracity or report that they were dishonest which kind of puts the burden on

The films will be shown again next week at the Broadcasters' Convention, which has spurred a great deal of interest.

It will be shown at the main ballroom where everybody convenes.

CBS has said that the line has been drawn.

The affiliate boards are meeting.

CBS is showing the time-out film once again this coming week, which is bound to precipitate a case before the FCC.

Ask him.

How?

Well, they've taken now three and a half hours of prime time to show one side of the controversial issue without giving the other side any time.

So the Pentagon, I believe, will ask for time.

We've suggested they do it.

That's under Vernon's side.

Right.

Oh.

And we'll get a speedy administration on something kind of onto it.

I don't want the administration.

I want the White House.

We're miles away from it.

The Vice President brought us to a degree very much into the White House.

They finally see this one.

They've shown a great portion of the lead.

Well, yeah, it'd be... No, this is going to be in a speech at NBC very hard.

It's that one guy at NBC.

Brady?

Brady, yeah.

I was playing him very well.

Well, the main thing is, it's how it all comes out.

As far as he said, anything that discredits the network is useful.

Because there'll be another issue next time.

Well, what you're trying to do, I think...

I think it will have this effect, is to cause people to raise doubts in their own mind when they watch network-based presentations.

Is this slanted or is it?

If you have any quiver of a question in your mind and then look at it, boy, it's so slanted, it's, you know, they see it as soon as they get that doubt in their mind, don't they?

But this time, because it is.

On Howard Smith, I think I'm talking about where all the...

Yes, sir.

Well, I think it's, since you're probably closer to it than anybody else, if you do see, you could say that the first of all, he has to be .

He can ask anything he wants.

You can ask him any order.

In other words, it's entirely up to him to arrange the program.

I wanted to be free to press on any particular subject.

I will naturally be, I don't have to be restrained.

like current negotiations in a place like the Mideast or something like that.

But I will say so and say why.

But he should press me on all those subjects, any subject he wants, whatever he thinks.

And also, go beyond that.

The greatest interest, actually, will be in Southeast Asia, and I certainly know the samples for some half of its time.

But in any event, he could be ill-free about anything in the whole world.

He just wants to investigate before it's over.

But generally, before it was scheduled, this is...

This is consistent with his view, but I think he'll be very gentlemanly, but he must press.

He'll press.

And what I mean is I expect him to.

I will not embarrass him.

He could be desperate.

You know what I mean?

I can make a guy look bad and press his heart.

I don't want anybody after the program to say it was a patsy.

They won't.

There's going to be plenty of news in it.

He's intelligent, too.

He can carry on with his questions.

I think you might want to talk about .

We've got to figure out how, because our big problem with this is the question of scaling.

Well, I think there, too, you've got to .

There's a question, too, as to how it's worked out in terms of the whole figure operation.

Well, we've talked quite a bit with Ron about it.

And honestly,

Because he heard about exactly how that's been.

But you can see, you can see that I have no doubt at all about who's the press secretary.

He's not the press secretary, he's the reaper, he's in charge of that.

Chucks, you might- No, he can't really hear you.

I think what I'm saying is that Mr. President is that Scali doesn't want to fill that role.

Scali doesn't think he should fill that role.

That's right.

Skelly is a very, very thoughtful guy with exceedingly good analytical mind.

You know, I've got two long sessions with him.

First of all, he's completely dedicated to you and your foreign policy.

He's a Democrat.

Like he said, he's been giving speeches for two and a half years.

I haven't been one of the media representatives in Washington.

Donald shared that the year of the election of Richard Nixon was a disaster.

In fact, it proudly stands between us, falling into the depths of neo-isolation, the phrase he's been using for two years.

would make a substantial financial sacrifice.

It would be a very difficult thing for him to do.

He feels there is an urgent need for this administration.

He feels that he can make an attribution to the principal of this prison.

in terms of helping us avoid the pitfalls and how we communicate our foreign policy.

He's maintained, over the years, a very close personal relationship with Hankard and McCloskey and the State Department of Defense.

They respect him.

He's been working with them, which has been a problem, as you know.

He basically would like to help us as a strategist, guiding us communications-wise and foreign policy-wise.

His mind works very fast.

His mind, I think, works, at least in the discussions that I had, was very, very perceptive.

He was a lot deeper guided than I had suspected.

Howard K. Smith, with whom I discussed the possibility, thought that Fiscali, except for the fact that he's known to be a fine layman from ABC, would be an ideal fellow to help us and could help.

Well, that's an exception that you have to not worry about.

Yes, that's one of many examples.

This guest should not hesitate to raise such questions as if he wants or if the media, maybe, I mean, I don't think, I don't think it's deeper interest from him because it may be embarrassing to him.

I don't want, I'm not going to kick the media out of his program, but if he wants to raise a whole other spot.

Has the press been there, the image business, all that crap?

No, not the image business.

Things like that.

I don't want him, what I think he might otherwise do, Chuck, is to just get into the usual kind of questions that the press conference, in other words, that sort of, well, it ain't.

Not the press conference.

The press conference is a lot of his cycle.

He may be able to do it all in two routines.

But it's up to him.

He's got to go to Iowa.

He'll start out by talking about the powers of the president, the constitutional relationship with the Congress, the handling of foreign policy.

That's his biggest interest.

You can be sure that he won't get into that deal.

You just can't tell the people, can you?

Well, we'll wire it up a little if I can get a little chance.

To any extent that I can get some.

Indication of those loggings.

I'll try to figure out some things and read.

Be sure to be candid on this.

Be candid.

I think one of the better set-ins is set to 1 o'clock tomorrow.

I've already said 8 o'clock tonight.

You're set.

They all have a ribbon right here.

That's all right.

I'll have somebody give you another shot of wine and see what's on your mind.

So, to get the ideas.

You've got to keep, what, what would he hear?

He said that, like he did before, he just goes back and picks up the lines and submits it.

That's what he's working on.

And then to come back, and all the questions that are likely to come up, you know, the present circumstances and so forth.

That's why I know what it was.

It's just that, it's a different thing.

But let's go.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

would want to help us in dealing in an affirmative way with the people in the media, in Washington and elsewhere, who he believes, from many years of experience, to be able to help influence other people's thoughts.

They aren't the obvious ones, necessarily.

Of course they will be the obvious ones.

You can talk to the chancellor.

It might help, it might not.

his theory right or wrong is that there are hellish people who really

in the medium of the year, mold the thinking, which then I'd chancell it with a lightweight and scalable picture.

Simply put, I don't know what I'm talking about.

Actually, in some cases, the less obvious, he has a very close relationship with them.

I agree with this theory of foreign policy.

They can communicate easily.

He has a very finely tuned sense of what it is

I'm proud that he will react to what it is we do and say.

It's easy for him to give me a lot of examples just because they're all in hindsight.

I haven't met with a guy bright enough to see them ahead.

He at least would be in a position to point out to us when we're going to do something that the pit bulls are doing it one way against the pit bulls another way and the advantage is one way against the trap.

As I say, his mind works very unbelievably.

He starts the problem and talks about giving the elements up and therefore we cannot give.

He started out not being, he started out being very taken aback when I first took him.

Kind of stumped at the whole thing.

And he said at the end of it, in our head, he said, I don't want to sound pointy, but, and he said this will sound pointy, but it probably matters for you to think about this because it,

But he said, I just think I'm, he said, I just think I'm a victor.

You know, I would kind of love to serve one country, but I'd like to, but it would be like a nightmare.

And I made that very, very hard at this point.

He also agrees that he would talk to Price with whatever candor he could exercise, and he could not be handed, would not talk to him.

Which I think is an essential agreement to have.

We have been discussing this, and if there were to come to this, he would want to sit with you and go through with you his relationship with you on this.

He would not be in a policy but when a decision was made, we would use him to tell us how best to get it for us and what we need to best understand how we react.

Which is a sensitivity that I think is slightly unusual to not anyone.

I don't know what we have inside.

What particularly, particularly one who's sort of partly attuned to the television people.

And not, therefore, I believe, the specific all-around management mind.

Bottom-down, strong, gutsy, and so forth.

What Ron has to concern himself with, rightly,

division of spokesmanship responsibilities and there you can get into a hell of a problem.

The problem that Ron sees with Scali is really not so much vis-a-vis himself as it is with the problem of Scali's usefulness being totally dependent on his knowledge of what's going on and the fact that it's going to be hard as hell for him to get that knowledge.

We just don't have the mechanism, and that gets to the Ron and Fitzgerald.

It might be that the real problem is with Henry, that if you can't set up the working relationship with Henry and Henry's crew so that, for instance, I feel very strongly that, if you ask the county mayor, that he should sit in the Y6 meetings.

In other words, that's a decision statement, and those who are special action, who doesn't implement, he can sit in every one of those goddamn meetings, and he can speak up in those meetings as a part of the implementation unit, and he can say, we should not allow any press to go into the locks, or we should allow the press to go into the locks from the beginning, or we should keep an embargo on, or we shouldn't have an embargo on.

And look at him now, he may have to be overruled militarily or diplomatically, but it's an input ought to be considered in terms of, because that's more important reason to consider the military or the diplomatic.

It's what the people think, and that's where we can blow.

Most of what we plan.

And it's inevitable.

You've got Alex Johnson, Henry Vestager, David Packard, and Tom Horner sitting down there deciding how to put out the public information.

And they do not listen to Ziegler and Hager as equals.

A scouting has got to be, and Mike has got to be a member of us, and he's got to be put in there.

on a par with the undersecretary.

And he's got to direct the undersecretary for communication in that area.

I agree.

Well, he's been under-receiving into this so long, and on the mixing with the people in the business, so he knows how to spell that.

But he knows...

He will tell you on anything we do exactly what the TV people and the Foreign Policy Press Committee are going to, how they're going to react.

He made, I made the point to him, we're going to not always be able to follow your advice.

And he said, that's not a problem.

He said, I would view my role as principally telling you where the problems are and where the credit is.

I understand how best to end it.

And how best to close the doors.

And then how to manage a compromise.

At least you start with an understanding of what would be the best way to do it.

Which is, in a sense, what I was trying to do in those last few meetings.

But it would be infinitely better if we had all these challenges.

Exactly.

One of the things that should have kept in mind is that he left my office yesterday.

better to be turned down.

He got the American flag flying, and he started to start to serve a fine.

I would hate to take my health and see it scrapped, because this guy has serious problems financially and personally.

And if he gets thinking about those too long, he wrestled with this thing very, very hard.

He wrestled with it for a week.

Okay, well, why don't you talk to him?

You and the chapter talk to Henry about it and just say what it's going to be.

What do you want to do?

I want to think how we deal with it.

Because I want to sell it so that it's positive with Henry, so that he just wants it.

Because Henry, as you know, is one of the world's greatest obstructions that he wants to obstruct.

Just desperate to do it.

Scali made the point to me.

He said to me, I was very impressed with the six questions he came back to me with.

demonstrated to me that he had really thought it through.

And the next question was, will Henry Kissinger regard this as a barrier being created between him and the press?

Because he said, if so, it'll never work.

Because the thing which Henry treasures most is his access and

communication with the press.

And he said, that happens to be disastrous 90% of the time.

And he said, I'd like to help him.

He said, Henry's communication with the press is disastrous.

He said that Henry, remember Bob Ike said this on several occasions.

And Rob has not understood this either.

He said, I said, I don't agree with you.

He said, well, he has some quiet passion.

And he tells him, it's not based on what we want him to know.

And Scali makes the point, which you've made so many times, that there are usually just two or three singing things that you want to get across, and there's a way to get those across.

He feels he could help Henry, and honestly, if Henry wanted to help, if Henry used it as a wall between the press and Henry.

Now, I feel like Henry in turn, here's a good way for him to get across himself.

I mean, you know what I mean?

See, I mean, it's immediately, he does find that he should be assigned to my office and be under me.

You know, that's the best you can do.

Oh, no, I want him to be on the president once and also for domestic policy.

And there's another way to play it, too, that can't be helpful.

Well, I mean, I just want him to be on the president.

See, you know what I mean?

He should be on the president, too, because...

In fact, he could be extremely vocal, because he has the new sense, even though his own intellectual

At the gallop, it's 51-36-13-900, that would be 15 minutes.

Yeah, except there are the final figures on Monday, and they plan to run it a week from Sunday.

The 2019 poll was published at 51-36-13, but on final tabulation it came out 50-36-14.

So the March Index for Gallup will show it as 50-36-14.

I wish I could figure out how those people work.

I'm predicting we had 52 first.

Yeah, when we, he gave us the advance of 52.

He said plus or minus one might be 50 now.

No, he said it was 52 or 53.

52 or 53.

Then it came out 51, and he printed it that way.

Now he's saying it actually came out 50, and that's what he's going to show.

What's the February one now?

Because that's our advantage, because this will show a 1.8 increase.

It shows that you're holding on, which is all right.

If you hold at that level, that's fine.

Right.

Because that's 900 out of 1500.

It always goes down, so I would back up to 51.

Well, the thing is, too, he's got to show variation in order to be new.

You know what I mean?

The fact that we were on to the story, the fact that Walker got that anyway, so the 51 happened.

That's just really something.

It was the one in February before the press conference.

Yes, 19th to 21st, so press conference was March 4th.

Also, however, before we were taking as many wraps on the second allowance thing, we were taking the docks.

We would take a drop.

We hadn't started ahead.

No, what I meant is, though, that the 51, Gallup, we think it was, we think Gallup should be the bolder, weaker way to support the press conference with our own vote.

We should have dropped even more than that.

Yeah.

Now, what I'm getting at is that I think we had a drop only.

I think the...

This simply shows the press conference under active control within there.

And this was last week, this doesn't include any of the events of this week.

This would have been before the engagement.

Or the engagement before with the, what else did we do last week?

I don't think any of this has that kind of an effect on my theory.

There are two day shows that go out with each other.

I think that the day show has an effect for the reason that

It has a direct, I mean, it's supposed to .

That's the size of the audience.

I'm not sure.

The figures, well, the actual national figures, one and a half million, but in New York City, they're not as big.

Very substantial increase in the rates.

Well, one figure was 40, 45% of the market.

Well, anyway, don't you agree that the day show, may I ask, do you think that the day show effect helps even the absolute?

But it helps in the back of the line.

I'm not sure it moves out any points on a pole.

No, but looking at that rollout on the pole, you're standing with men.

It's very much higher than women, which is a little worse.

Oh, all the Laker folks, yeah.

That's four.

Yeah, right.

But that's one of the women's stuff.

And we're balancing off the actors.

Just the engagement of your daughter and the publicity that was intended for that this week and so forth.

Agreed.

Yes, sir.

Didn't call Johnson.

You didn't?

I'm not sure I did.

We went back and wrote this one.

It's going to be worse.

Sure.

I like, as a matter of fact, to help Johnson with me.

Interestingly enough, I never went to television, but my wife, of course, the girls insisted on looking at the talker, the older, who got married to my husband.

And they did it so well that I thought, my God, that was a damn good job.

I really was in love with him.

Johnson, at that point, had so lost his clients in the public eye that Family Affairs just couldn't take that.

Totally different, took no parallel with the prison they told me.

The family side in this prison helps with it.

I'm surprised that he's given you the figures to tell Henry to go bring a psychotic boy.

You want to figure out how to talk to Henry?

Do you want me to talk?

I want to get into him.

Oh, when are we going to have a meeting with the...

Oh, he's not in yet, though.

If he's here today, let me know.

You've already heard after something.