Nixon, Haldeman & Ford on John A. Scali and Public Relations

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You know all those people that get locked up or something.

You see that and you really ashamed of some of the congressmen and senators.

Yeah.

You see the character of those people and what they do.

You see the congressmen and senators in the 4th and 3rd.

The 10th.

Defeatists.

Escapists.

Right away.

Those kinds of people are just a lot of countries.

Totally selfish.

These are for everyone.

They're just here.

Oh, and they've already put up with some.

Five years.

And then they know the father's law, and they're like, I'm getting married again.

Like the desertions and all the other things.

Desertion, again, not desertion, but where the men often see or they're presumed to have seven years under the law or something like that.

You can see why.

Otherwise, the seven years is telling you that if you have a five-year-old kid, he's 12 by the time you get him out of the military, and they keep putting it in your finger that you're getting married.

just to say that you don't have problems with living that kind of life.

Incidentally, I was going to say that I will not plan to go to Camp David if I go until tomorrow afternoon.

I want to, so I'll, you can, we have something to do, we can't cancel it here.

I can only have 45 minutes with our dinner, but that's okay.

This says we move the departure time up to 15 minutes.

It's probably for time to go by and pick up Mrs. Nixon.

They booked it up because of that, because we had to allow those smokers there.

We are taking, I'm going to start with Charlie, okay?

Chief Justice called and asked if we would take Justice Harmon, who was going up on the train.

Very good.

I'm craving to go on to Camp David tonight.

After that, I might just, I might just, well, uh, be here.

You can stay up every Monday if you want to.

I would plan to come back Monday afternoon.

What time is the program?

9.30.

I think we've got to get to work on that business.

He's got upset now.

He's right.

He wants to try to go out there.

It's hot.

I know this is the right thing to do.

Yes, I do.

Do you know Scallon?

Very well.

You really do.

You feel good about the guy?

That's why you know this.

I'm good at this paper.

I'm good at it.

And the other thing is that I've known over the last two years, he's been totally honest.

He hasn't been all this with us, but he's been totally honest.

And from time to time, he's stepped up and he put all the heart on our side.

He's got a depth, he's got a depth, which basically Bob, the only guy he's been writing for 20 years, he's an old AP writer now.

And he's got to get him, as I say, I'm high on Zinger, but Zinger,

20 years will be better than Scallop.

But he won't.

Of course he won't.

He's going ahead of the business.

He's going to be a president of the corporation.

Well, I think I do.

In the first place, what Scannelly would like to be is a special consultant to the President.

That's what he should be, a special consultant.

That's a good kind of entitlement that keeps him...

Yes, thank you.

But I worried I just wouldn't worry about it.

I could do it on substance.

I mean, make your point in there.

It's a special consultant on substance.

And that scantily is.

Right.

And I'm sure you're going to be looking at communications just as, but what was it that was a special consultant?

Well, you say a special consultant for what purposes?

No purposes.

A special consultant.

Right.

And you talk to Henry on the basis that his,

that if we work this out with Scali, we can get it.

And see, as Henry well knows, we have just a terrible need for a seasoned newsman.

And as Henry knows, sure he has, you've talked to him before, for a seasoned newsman and for a guy who understands television, there just ain't a few of them around.

And this is a real coup before we get this guy.

Henry, that's how he's going.

So we start, but he won't, that'll be a disadvantage, not an advantage.

Yeah, that's right.

Because then he won't buckle up.

And then you say he's going to, he'll be in here as a special inside.

He'll report him.

in a practical sense, report directly to the president.

And of course, he's there in assault with the president on the whole broad area of how we get our story told.

And obviously, it can be a tremendous advantage to us in the foreign policy area, getting our story told, that you will want to get him involved, Henry, well, in all of the things, you know, as you get into implementation, that the biggest problem he'll have in being of value to us is in knowing what's going on.

And you're the key to that, Henry, in making sure he does know everything.

It'll be an enormous asset to you in that regard.

He also...

can be a tremendous help to us in getting a hold of some of what goes out of Satan's defense.

Because he's got a very good, long-time relationship with Bowdoin and

McCloskey also has the respect of and can work pretty effectively with both Rogers and Leonard.

And we can use it.

It'll be a White House tool for implementing things that we want done in those places and getting the line out the right way and making sure we're all coming out with the right line.

For instance, the terrible problem we've got with Leonard running, you know, I can put him in and he's concerned with some of these other people and all.

Yeah.

Or Scali could go over and argue it not in a substantive viewpoint.

He would never get into any of these things substantively, but purely on the basis of the tactics of, you know, our real strategy of our public presentation.

And make the point to the secretary that this is consistent with the overall thing that we're trying to do.

And he can also be used to shoot some of these people down if they wanted to later on.

But they'll start talking at that point.

I think, I think it'll work pretty well.

From what Chuck said, I don't want to talk to Scallion, but what Chuck says in his conversation with Scallion is a very keen perception of Henry VIII of all things.

Well, the thing that, the thing that really is, I ought to be, I was sold in England, but if I needed to be sold, it was his perception in the city that Henry VIII was a great man.

which nobody around here has seen before.

I mean, a lot of people, let's put it this way, a client doesn't see it, a zigger doesn't see it.

I don't think.

I mean, because they are so damn impressed.

Because everybody, first of all, is dazzled by this dazzling presentation.

And how that's led to quite is, when it all comes out, the two or three points that Scali knows, as an all-EGP driver, he knows what the lead is going to be.

He said, the kind of thing I always try to say, I don't have any.

I said, the way to handle this whole proposition of the law was that there was no purpose of the operation.

I said, you've got to set the purpose of the operation.

As the president said, it was not to occupy territory.

We did the mission.

Anyway, nevertheless, that's something that's very difficult.

Henry wants to cover the whole tour, though he's lying, and we resolved it.

By the time he gets through, the audience is dazzled.

But our story is completely submerged.

You don't know what the hell's going to come out of it.

I guess he mentioned it here, too.

Scali.

So you only can make a couple points, two or three points on anything.

You've got to make those and just bang them all over and over and over.

You can't cover the whole waterfront.

The press don't have the capacity to utilize the knowledge of the whole waterfront.

The press, particularly the petroleum press.

That's right.

Because eight columners have eight columns.

You can't go on and on.

And Henry, generally, talks for columns.

He's not bad, therefore, with columns.

I mean, he can do a short all-stop, but the same ones he always has done, because he's got to show off.

But where Henry is a disaster for him.

He doesn't understand that you can only have two or the wire services for that matter.

That's right.

They can't go through a good long rationale.

Good.

You said you didn't want anything on the first time.

He might have had a conversation with him this morning.

I don't know.

He's back.

He's going to get in California.

Thank you, John.

Let's leave it.

I don't want to catch this later.

Go ahead.

We need to do some work.

I don't know.

It's not going up.

We asked him.

Yeah, we're good.

It's gone.

It's not going up.

So... We caught a bubble in the SST.

Cool.

After?

For a while.

You know that thing?

Yeah.

Because he switched.

I'm going, you know, he wasn't.

He was at ISSC and he switched over.

I don't know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Well, I think that you guys know, I must say, that it's a bad idea to have him come on Henry's staff.

He doesn't want to.

I think you want him on a broader basis than that, and I don't.

He's got a big water scheme than Henry Grayson.

One reason is that he'd be infinitely more effective for an enemy in working with state defense if he's not on Henry's staff.

Jerry, you know, it occurs to me that I always seem to be calling you a boy.

I was mighty proud of you when you lost.

And that was a hell of a fight you put on.

You know, with that, Jerry, we've been fighting for two years with Congress and the control of the other party, and it's amazing we've done as well as we have.

Gosh, you guys just, just bought my time.

Jerry built them and told me they had three other boats.

You really could cut a tree if you had to.

Jerry, they don't want us to be number one in it.

They want us to turn inward, don't they?

And also, another thing that concerns me, they're using this environmental kit for the purpose of just saying no to everything.

Well, don't worry.

Let me say it.

I consider it the first round.

We've got to make another effort in the Senate.

I guess I know how you feel, and I guess the part that they say that he did a good job preparing, per se.

But you know, also, we have a very, very strong media opposition to this.

The man media, they're the ones that also want to go down the drain.

But they're not going to win in the end, Jerry.

They can't do it.

It's too much for them to do.

Sure.

Because we have, we at least, I hope only temporarily, at least that's what we've got to say, have withdrawn from an area of competition.

Now that you understand, it's still in 72.

We're going to go after it again.

We're going to go after it again and get you another shot at it.

But we just hope that that is provided and that Bowie wants to go to it.

But, uh, you see, uh, anyway, keep your spirit up.

We'll do it.

There'll be another day.

We'll, we'll, we'll be there next time.

Okay.

All right.

Okay, uh, I'll let you, uh, you just talk.

Okay.

Uh, you just talk.

You know, just talk about what I lost.

It's great that we had it.

The person on the plane going up.

People ride in the forward cabin.

On the way going back, people sit back at the other seats.

You see what I mean?

Okay.

On those that can, I don't care.

They can let the ride in the forward cabin both times, not both times.

I hope.

I want to let you know that I do.

I'm telling you they're very good at it.

Very good.

I think it's got to be Henry's idea that he sold it to the boy.

He was putting jelly in there, and he was trying to get advice and cash and all that.

He's the man that I want on the substantive side.

That's really, when I say substantive, you know, what free points and so forth do.

And it's not very liberal.

The substantive side of what he's saying, not the substantive side of what he did.

He doesn't, but he's involved in that.

The more we get him stirred in, the biggest problem he'll have is making sure he knows what is going on.

He's got to be moved in.

Right.

And that depends heavily on Henry, which is why it's a danger for him to have it set up right with Henry.

In the beginning, when my child is sent, Scallion has a pretty good feel of Henry's strengths and weaknesses, and her having an instinctive feeling of how to deal with him.

And if that's so, it will be very helpful.

When I lock that in, you've got to bring it in on the basis of trusting him all the way and trying.

And they've tried.

He's in a block.

He's coming.

He is coming down.

I hope he doesn't stop or he's going to go a long, long way through this.

Well, in a sense that he's burning a career for his potential to sell.

This is something that particularly might hurt him, might end him.

That's my point.

He can't go back as a newsman.

Or he might be able to go back as a commentator.

You don't need to motivate them.

That is true.

Most of the people who come in here make a sacrifice not in, and they also are going to come out pretty well.

They'll do fairly well here.

We all think, and I know this.

Okay.

Nixon, Haldeman & Ford on John A. Scali and Public Relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 19, 1971

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