{"conversationCode":"472-002","tapeNumber":472,"conversationNumber":2,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-472-002","startDateTime":"1971-03-23T12:53:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-03-23T13:02:00.000Z","startDate":"23-Mar-1971","startTime":"7:53 AM","endDate":"23-Mar-1971","endTime":"8:02 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Butterfield, Alexander P.; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On March 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 7:53 am to 8:02 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 472-002 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 472-2\n\nDate: March 23, 1971\nTime: 7:53 am - 8:02 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Alexander P. Butterfield\n\n     US Capitol bombings\n\nH. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 7:53 am\n\n     Capitol bombings\n          -Suspects\n               -Possible Congressional action\n                     -John N. Mitchell’s view\n               -J. Edgar Hoover\n               -Informants\n               -Surveillance\n                     -Mitchell\n               -Possible arrest\n                     -Hoover\n               -Congressmen\n               -Mitchell\n\nButterfield left at 7:55 am\n\n     Polls\n             -George H. Gallup\n             -Approval ratings\n                  -Laos operation (Lam Son)\n                  -President’s credibility\n                  -President’s previous interview with Howard K. Smith\n                        -Smith’s questioning\n                              -President’s response\n                  -Vietnam War\n                        -Laos operation (Lam Son)\n                        -Joseph C. Kraft column\n                              -Lyndon B. Johnson\n                              -The President\n                        -Military actions\n                              -Effect\n                                    -The President’s policies\n                        -Cambodian operation\n                        -President’s November 3, 1969 speech\n\n     President’s previous interview with Smith\n          -Format\n                -John B. Connally\n                -Future value\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 7:55 am\n\n     President’s schedule\n          -Republican Congressional leaders\n                -Robert J. Dole\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 8:02 am\n\n     Connally\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal Returnable]\n[Duration: 7s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n******************************************************************************\n\nThe President and Haldeman left at 8:02 am","filename":["472-002.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:01:39","tapeEnd":"00:11:24","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Butterfield, Alexander P.","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"472-001","nextCode":"472-003","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":3.87,"text":"So, uh, I mean, I could hear it coming."},{"start":56.83,"end":82.89,"text":"There's some possibility one of the leaders or some of the"},{"start":84.05,"end":90.92,"text":"raised the point that they have a case against the Capitol Bombers and wanted to do something on Mitchell."},{"start":91.53,"end":111.79,"text":"wants you to just oppose anything like that."},{"start":111.81,"end":112.45,"text":"Uber is pushing you to go ahead."},{"start":112.47,"end":112.93,"text":"They do have a case on."},{"start":112.95,"end":113.41,"text":"They have an informant."},{"start":113.43,"end":113.89,"text":"They know who they are."},{"start":113.91,"end":114.17,"text":"Who are they?"},{"start":114.19,"end":114.88,"text":"But the point is, are they blacks?"},{"start":114.89,"end":115.42,"text":"I'll call the police here."},{"start":115.44,"end":115.76,"text":"Are they blacks?"},{"start":115.78,"end":116.14,"text":"I don't know that."},{"start":116.16,"end":117.7,"text":"To inform us that what John, John wants, they have plans for more activities."},{"start":117.72,"end":119.56,"text":"They're not under surveillance now, and John wants to let them leave them loose for a while."},{"start":119.94,"end":134.52,"text":"Keep out of it, get them to do something else and catch them out."},{"start":134.54,"end":139.21,"text":"So they've got a brief case instead of an informant's case."},{"start":139.23,"end":141.15,"text":"And Hoover was gonna talk to you and start to put pressure on you to go ahead and arrest him."},{"start":141.17,"end":141.73,"text":"And he is now programmed to."},{"start":143.4,"end":166.93,"text":"play well to the point, which is the game John must play."},{"start":166.95,"end":167.83,"text":"Some of the congressmen may know about that."},{"start":167.85,"end":168.69,"text":"That's exactly what I'd like to know, sir."},{"start":168.71,"end":169.23,"text":"Good, then I suppose, sir."},{"start":169.25,"end":170.59,"text":"I'll just go upstairs and John makes those hands if you don't mind."},{"start":203.95,"end":222.65,"text":"Here we go."},{"start":233.38,"end":244.19,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":244.21,"end":246.65,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":246.81,"end":257.19,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.17,"end":259.27,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.29,"end":259.39,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.41,"end":259.51,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.53,"end":259.63,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.65,"end":259.75,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.77,"end":259.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":259.89,"end":259.99,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":260.01,"end":260.11,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":260.13,"end":260.23,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":260.25,"end":260.35,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":278.87,"end":300.48,"text":"They're sidelined, and they've already put a discount on the rules, and everybody's ears are down, so what the hell?"},{"start":300.5,"end":302.42,"text":"We've been all day, and we've been questioning this very quickly, and it's absolutely justified."},{"start":302.44,"end":303.3,"text":"Of course, it isn't just the approval poll."},{"start":303.32,"end":305.63,"text":"That's what's going to get the record going, because that holds us to credibility in the approval claim in the war."},{"start":305.65,"end":305.91,"text":"That's right."},{"start":305.93,"end":306.19,"text":"That's right."},{"start":306.21,"end":307.37,"text":"You've got a coppered in a number of different directions."},{"start":307.39,"end":307.65,"text":"That's right."},{"start":308.49,"end":327.41,"text":"The crack that's at the top today facing the thesis that until it follows every move, every major move by a president, either you or Johnson, on the war, caused at least a momentary upsurge in the polls, whether it was an escalation or a de-escalation."},{"start":328.62,"end":351.2,"text":"Josh went up when he started bombing, he went up when he quit bombing, he went up, you know."},{"start":351.22,"end":352.65,"text":"And then it takes you on the, uh, November 3rd, and you go to Cambodia."},{"start":352.67,"end":354.35,"text":"And, uh, when the fist goes down to Red Lobster, it's the first time it's gone down."},{"start":354.37,"end":354.89,"text":"There's a reason for that."},{"start":354.91,"end":356.03,"text":"First of all, he missed a picture of my house with Jeff."},{"start":357.58,"end":365.71,"text":"Well, I need to take that for what it is, you know."},{"start":365.73,"end":369.26,"text":"I was thinking of yours, in terms of this question, people are tired of this."},{"start":369.28,"end":372.12,"text":"Well, the question is tired of the question of the loop that was set out before."},{"start":372.14,"end":373.33,"text":"The loop was that of an escalating walk."},{"start":373.85,"end":395.95,"text":"Vietnam, you know, people, the war always was escalating, and every step of the statement was in relation to an escalating war."},{"start":395.97,"end":396.99,"text":"And a step now, it was a clearly de-escalating war."},{"start":397.01,"end":397.74,"text":"I can't believe it was so important."},{"start":397.75,"end":399.72,"text":"Yeah, but I don't think people really had anything to do with what they did after the Vietnam War."},{"start":399.74,"end":400.86,"text":"And also, we went all out to... Yeah, I think they're..."},{"start":400.88,"end":401.56,"text":"I don't know if you remember, sir."},{"start":401.58,"end":401.76,"text":"Oh, okay."},{"start":402.53,"end":424.74,"text":"The number 13 wasn't a step up to the water, it was purely an exercise in... All the measures on these things are not going to happen."},{"start":424.76,"end":425.96,"text":"You see, squirt comes out."},{"start":425.98,"end":431.21,"text":"As long as they can get it down, they show up to run with everything they can get up."},{"start":435.19,"end":450.8,"text":"Everybody has his own choice, doesn't he?"},{"start":450.82,"end":451.36,"text":"Well, it may very well be."},{"start":451.99,"end":458.97,"text":"For a given time and subject, one thing's better than another time and another thing's better."},{"start":459.51,"end":460.95,"text":"It may be that it is the best format."},{"start":460.98,"end":463.98,"text":"I sure don't think you can use it very often, though."},{"start":471.23,"end":475.56,"text":"I think it's worth the work."},{"start":475.58,"end":483.01,"text":"The only questionable thing about that is that it doesn't reach as many people."},{"start":483.9,"end":486.18,"text":"That's the disadvantage."},{"start":487,"end":492.63,"text":"That's a real disadvantage to all our people who saw it and anybody who saw it."},{"start":506.89,"end":519.26,"text":"Okay."},{"start":537.25,"end":537.31,"text":"you"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, H. R. Haldeman, and Alexander Butterfield met to discuss the investigation into recent U.S. Capitol bombings and broader concerns regarding the President's public approval ratings. Haldeman reported that Attorney General John Mitchell advised against immediate arrests of suspects to allow for continued surveillance and the gathering of better evidence, despite pressure from J. Edgar Hoover to proceed. The group also evaluated the impact of the Vietnam War and recent military operations on the President’s political credibility, as well as the effectiveness of the President's recent media appearances.","topics":["Capitol bombings","J. Edgar Hoover","John N. Mitchell","Vietnam War","public approval ratings","presidential credibility"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T21:29:33.210Z"},"topicSlugs":["capitol-bombings","j-edgar-hoover","john-n-mitchell","vietnam-war","public-approval-ratings","presidential-credibility"],"audioDurationSec":537,"audioFiles":[{"file":"472-002.mp3","bytes":12896756,"durationSec":537.29,"bitrate":192027,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:48.988Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:46.616Z","transcriptGapSeconds":170,"transcriptGapShare":0.32,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/472-002.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/472-002","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/472/conversation-472-002","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}