Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 472 › Conversation 472-017

Nixon, Haldeman & Bull on Public Relations and Media Strategy

Tuesday, March 23, 1971 · 2:50 PM–3:00 PM ET · Oval Office · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Bull, Stephen B.Conversation472-017 on Tape 472 (tape position 03:34:47–03:44:24)StartTuesday, March 23, 1971 at 2:50 PMEndTuesday, March 23, 1971 at 3:00 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 472-017 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and H. R. Haldeman met to evaluate the public and internal staff reception of the President's recent television interview with Howard K. Smith. They discussed the mixed feedback regarding the interview's length and tone, while Nixon expressed frustration with White House control over technical production elements like camera angles and his own visual presentation. The conversation concluded with a brief administrative shift to scheduling, including a potential trip to Oklahoma for a prison rehabilitation facility dedication.

Audio

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NARA Description

On March 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:50 pm to 3:00 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 472-017 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 472-17

Date: March 23, 1971
Time: 2:50 pm - 3:00 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman

     President’s previous interview with Howard K. Smith
          -Format
                -Compared with press conference
                -Patrick J. Buchanan
                -Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                -Buchanan
                -Leonard Garment
                      -Length
                      -Smith’s questioning
                            -Foreign policy emphasis
                -Blacks
                -Price
                -Buchanan
                      -Smith compared with [Arnold] Eric Sevareid
          -Questions
                -Length of interview
                -Difficulty
                -President’s responses
          -President’s demeanor
                -William E. Brock, III
                -John B. Connally
                -Clifford M. Hardin
                -Public opinion
          -Camera angles
                -Placement of cameras
                -White House control
                -Barbara Walters interview
                -President’s seating position
                -Hardin’s view
                -White House control
                      -William H. Carruthers
                      -Placement of cameras
                -Effect
                      -Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman conversations

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Show the rest of the log (32 more lines)
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal Returnable]
[Duration: 1m 6s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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     President’s schedule
          -An announcement concerning Davis-Bacon Act, March 26, 1971
          -A prison dedication in Oklahoma
                -Richard G. Kleindienst
                -Another Oklahoma dedication
                -Oklahoma City logistics
                      -President’s role
                            -Remarks
                            -Tour
                      -Precedent
                      -President’s role
                            -Prisoners

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:50 pm

          -3:00 meeting

Bull left at an unknown time before 3:00 pm

     President’s interview with Smith
          -Public response
                -White House telephone call

The President and Haldeman left at 3:00 pm

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 2 minutes of this recording (about 22% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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I hope that you're going to get a uniform answer to the fact that different people like different things.
Some like a fight, some like a thoughtful program.
It's like, well, here we have really an iron hole in the side.
Buchanan, I'm sure, likes the press conference.
He likes to kick them in the ass.
I hope Buchanan, on the other hand, tries.
He goes, well, this kind of horrible.
Buchanan's reading on this.
He said, this is the best one we've done.
Buchanan, we kind of like this.
It was very strong for this one.
Of course, he likes Howard Smith.
Now, Len Garman, on the other hand, thought this was lousy, which is surprising.
Why didn't he look?
His main reason was, he said, an hour of Howard K. Smith is too much to have to sit through.
Well, he doesn't agree with me.
He doesn't like Smith.
I think I'm very confused.
There's another issue.
You thought Garland was tough.
I thought Garland was tough.
That's what he's always advocated.
That is what came out.
Garland was the least, of all the staff people, Garland was the least enthusiastic, the least in his response last night.
I thought it was his problem.
Because he submitted too many questions.
He didn't like the questions.
It was too long.
And now we're watching the war.
It was too much.
And I think too much in the war.
He doesn't like the war.
How's the domestic staff?
be the same kind of thing as the Blacks?
Oh, I think so.
I don't think Price would react to it.
Price is a thoughtful man, don't you understand?
That's what he said.
He's a thoughtful man, and that's, you know, that's the one point.
Is that what he told you?
Yep.
Price said it was very thoughtful and relaxed and, you know, cool, poised.
Yeah.
I mean, I try to get that, you cannot like, reassure it.
That's the thing, you can't like to do that.
That's a funny thing, you can when it's quite enthusiastic.
I don't know why the hell you do it.
I mean, like, you know, your group of things may make a difference.
You know, you can't want to like it.
Now, if you do want to sever it, you can't want to like it, because he won't, he doesn't want to sever it.
So it's like, hey, I just want to go bitch.
That's right.
Right, I just, like, you did it.
I'm going to go bitch.
I'm going to go bitch.
The president keeps going for an hour and they can say that those were not easy questions.
Any honest person knows what they were going to make and they weren't ones anybody could prepare you for.
And they know who they'd like to open up to and who to help.
Who to tell us, who to help with their suggestions and such questions.
On that one little exchange where it was great, there was one that you could refuse to answer.
And he did it very nicely and said, you know, explain why.
And Sidney won't answer.
And then he laughed and he said, I didn't expect you to answer that.
Because what I brought was wrong.
He is, I think that's a reaction he has because he's self-abusing himself.
But my point is there, from what I have heard, that you have the kind of thing that's probably hard and very like the best.
You've got to, and it is, I don't see a smile.
You want to see the man smile?
It shows it, because it bothers people.
It bothers, I know people give me a bad time, like at a party or something.
You don't smile.
Yeah.
You say, well, what's the matter with you?
You never smile.
You know, the other thing I was going to say, though, we, are you sure that we have enough
And we were playing strong enough line with the TV with regard to the how those things are set up.
Now, if we give ABC the right to do a program, we ought to be able to put that goddamn camera where we want it.
And if we get Michael Walker's program, we ought to be able to say, I'm not going to be sitting on the goddamn couch.
Now, some of you there have dropped a biscuit.
It wasn't my fault.
Believe me, I sat straight in the chair last night.
I did everything I was supposed to.
I held my head up and wanted to go.
The picture was red.
I never was looking in the camera, except two or three times.
And that's what Harden's, it was his greatest thought, that he can't see when you look in the camera.
And I'm like, well, it looks bad.
Well, it looks bad.
Because, you know, you're drunk.
You just don't know what your mind is.
But Harden's point is, gee, if you could just do that, he said, I've never seen you look.
Well, the point is that, God, that camera's never there.
Now, what is the situation?
Can it be really controlled?
We've got, what does the writer say?
We've got to set the camera right in line with the other guy.
Why would they do it?
Well, because then when they take the shot of him, there's a camera in the way.
They have to move it off.
Some, they can set an angle, a separate, so they get in at an angle.
They don't do it with their head on top of each other.
It can be done.
And it's got to be.
It's not bad.
It wasn't bad at all.
It was a sensationally good picture.
But I think you would strengthen, when you're on a long answer particularly, it would strengthen the answer if you were looking right at the guy, instead of looking over at somebody over there.
It's the same thing as in the room.
If I'm sitting here and Erland is sitting over there, and you're talking to Erland, then I don't have the same kind of communication that you're talking to me.
I'm still getting the pitch, particularly when I'm making that strong impression.
Maybe they heard some of those portables that you're trying to get out of the conversation.

— 1 min 8 s with no transcribed speech —

What would you think on the way out?
We may, incidentally, we may have, as I've told you, the construction thing, we may have a hell of a breakthrough that we could use.
Well, they're all cranked up about it, where you can reinstate it, because you'll have your agreement or whatever it is.
But if they do, they might want to make that as a big thing here on Friday, because if they don't,
There's a suggestion of a possibility of a stop at a prison in Oklahoma, a way out, which is they were going to dedicate a new, it's a new education program that they have that leads to a high school.
And it's a new, the dedication was scheduled for Thursday and we can get it moved to Friday.
This is right out of Oklahoma City, and you go into Oklahoma City Airport and shop for this.
It's a federal reformatory.
and that would be the President's federal prison.
You'd attend the dedication of this new building that they've renovated to house this regional training center and present certificates to the 30 graduates of the first class of it.
They have a little graduation ceremony.
That would be the plan.
You would deliver brief remarks, not an address, but just brief remarks about the philosophy of reform, rehabilitation, etc.
Then you'd visit some of the training facilities in vocational classes.
Things like that, it would be a, is the president ever done the prison before?
I don't know.
We should have talked about this.
The building that they're dedicating is right outside the prison compound with the joints.
But then you would go in and, I don't want to go outside, I don't want to dedicate the building to not see the prisoners, so.
You understand?
Yeah.
Not the building, the prisoners, right?
As much as I would say that they should not be physically the size of the money center, that kind of company.
That is the point that I was just saying.
I wonder if we...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

Also recorded on March 23, 1971

  • 472-012 1:07 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:07 pm and 1:10 pm.
  • 472-013 1:10 PM · 1 hr 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 1:10 pm to 2:12 pm.
  • 472-014 2:12 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:12 pm and 2:44 pm.
  • 472-015 2:12 PM · 5 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:12 pm and 2:44 pm.
  • 472-016 2:44 PM · 4 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:44 pm to 2:50 pm.
  • 051-002 3:00 PM · 1 hr 40 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Vice President Spiro T. Agnew, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, George Romney, and mayors of United States cities, including Carl B. Stokes, James H. J. Tate, Roman S. Gribbs, Henry W. Maier, Louie Welch, Jack D. Maltester, Sam Massell, Alfonso J. Cervantes, Lee Alexander, Maurice E. ("Moon") Landrieu, John V. Lindsay, Lawrence F. Kramer, Harry G. Haskell, John W. Driggs, Richard G. Lugar, William D. Dyke, Robert J. Blackwell, Thomas J. D'Alesandro, Will H. Hays, Jr., Kevin D. White, Kenneth A. Gibson, Frank Curran, George G. Siebels, Jr., George M. Sullivan, Antonina P. Uccello, Ann H. Kilgore, Robert W. Knecht, Joseph Alioto, Peter F. Flaherty, Patrick Healy, and John J. Gunther, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House from 3:00 pm to 4:45 pm.
  • 051-003 4:45 PM · 49 sec — Unknown person(s) met in the Cabinet Room of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 4:45 pm on March 23, 1971 and 10:12 am on March 25, 1971.
  • 472-019 4:45 PM · 52 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:45 pm and 4:46 pm.

All 29 conversations from March 23, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 472-017, March 23, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/472-017 (accessed November 2, 2026).