On March 23, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Clifford M. Hardin, J. Philip Campbell, George P. Shultz, John D. Ehrlichman, John C. Whitaker, Donald B. Rice, John B. Connally, and William Fitz-Patrick met in the Oval Office of the White House from 5:05 pm to 5:38 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 472-021 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Ah, no, all right.
All right, either way.
So that's just what's over here.
They're counting on here.
You were supposed to have told me.
I didn't know that you meant that, Bryce.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
I talked to him this afternoon about the SST.
And he said, he said he was, uh, something we wanted to do.
He wanted to tell me we were ready to do it.
Could you ask him to, could you ask him, could you call me back after this meeting and ask him to call you or not, because we understand that he, all right, you or not just told him everybody that he was going to be for it, only because he was for it.
That's what, because labor was for it.
And now that we understand he's wavering from it.
He said he had been calling me and he had quite a few disappointments.
He said that anybody they were working with had maintained an order.
And he thought we were working on building .
We ought to review this .
John, you expressed your reviews.
It appeared very clear to me that you were going to have to move
strong in the Midwest.
You're gonna have to be strong in rural America.
I've taken it back to part of the country.
Now, there are a lot of things you can't do with respect to farmers.
They're almost beyond help at this point.
They feel like they are.
They won't feel like anybody's trying to help them.
Every time they turn around and hear somebody talking about wanting to increase imports on meat from Australia,
Some of the hog prices are down, what, $17,000?
They were $29,000 a year ago.
Well, yeah, there's lots of problems, and they're responsible for a lot of them.
Fortunately, these prices have held up fairly well, but grain is an insoluble problem, as far as I can tell.
We've been working with it for years, so I still know many areas that you can do many things.
That's the net of what I'm saying to help the farmers and the dairy people.
Now, these dairymen are organized.
They're adamant.
They're military.
This particular group, ANTI, which is the American Milk Producers Institute or something, represents about 40,000 people.
The one that parallels the one in the east of mid-Concord or something, mid-America group, represents about 40,000.
The southeast of the group,
Darien Incorporated, whatever their name is, represents a lesser number, but probably in the range of 20,000, if I remember.
They, uh, verified it.
They tapped these fellows.
I think it's one-third, one percent of their total sales, or $99 a year, whichever it is.
Oh, it's tickle.
No question about it.
And they're meeting and they're having meetings.
They've had them on a state-of-the-art airplane and they just travel from one part of the country to another part of the country.
They get these fellas in and they sign them up.
And it's a pure check-off deal.
And they're investing an awesome amount of money.
that they had a political activity, very frankly.
And I, in the first place, I had a legitimate cause.
I wouldn't recommend you take anything that they're asking for
for an increase in the price of 100 weight up to 492.
They originally started out at 505.
And I'm sure these folks can all argue more convincingly than I can that on the basis of Mary's health not to get part of the production to go up or something.
The truth of the matter is the price of milk is now paid at 492.
You're not going to raise the price of milk.
They're supporting the price of milk themselves with their own money by buying cheese.
Right today.
Now, if you don't support the price, that doesn't support the 492, that's going to have to drop because they're their resources.
So they need to pay the difference between the 466 and the 492.
So they will drop the price.
Now, they're in trouble.
They've already spent more money than they have.
They're going to drop the price to about $1,700 on the T41.
They may well have.
I'm just going to talk to the manager of the history club and talk about it.
And they've done some things that I think are a little stronger on our path for actually organizing.
But I don't criticize that unless we're prepared to take on business for labor.
Well, at the same time, people for the United are far more likely to practice for labor.
And so I'm not – I will judge them on the moral of the matter.
I judge them on the basis of – you've heard all the rest, but I'm addressing myself to the parallel.
aspects of the political aspect.
I know there's a better organization in the United States that you can get more help from that will be more loyal to you.
And I think I've worried the kids to begin with.
And that being true, I just think you're stretched more.
I was waiting last year to serve, and I know that there's been some advice given to you to wait until next year.
But I don't differ with that, simply because
They're going to make their association and their alliances an issue, and they're going to spend a lot of money on it.
And various congressional and senatorial races, all on this United States.
And if you don't want to be in a position of issue, you ought to remember that I, Eddie Cooper, am one of the people thinking about it.
And they're not in that position.
If you do something for them this year, they think you've done it because they've got good cases, because you're their friend.
If you're waiting next year, I don't care what you do.
They're going to say, well, we put a pressure on this election year ahead.
You get no credit for it.
So it's still going to cost you enormous amount of money next year, and you get no political contract.
And I just think that the message is to...
The economics of it is just beyond reach, or beyond that.
You are on a really spiritual thing about this.
These are the problems that we have in the house of the sun.
What I mean is that if you don't do it, they're going to do it anyway.
If you don't do it, they're going to do it anyway.
I think it's, I think it's, as of today, it's almost certainly passed.
I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, I think it's,
Another roll-by from Crackers and Consumers.
Any other situation?
But the whole thing is, raise the price, you see.
I mean, that's what they'll do.
They'll say, no, but if you can't, I mean, we'll bust the sign.
We'll raise the price.
We'll cut back on production.
We're going to go off there.
I've got a little bit of a supporting, but I have to roll-by.
I don't have to pay for that.
Now they've already figured it out, and they're circulating how they're going to cut you, how they're going to cut you, and that's what they're going to do.
They've got it all figured out, and they're passing south from the hill, just exactly, and they're like four boats.
They're going to cross the river, and they're going to pass the hill, and they're going to pass the highway, and they're going to pass the hill.
And they say it'll cost you Missouri, it'll cost you South Carolina for sure.
He told Trump it'll cost you Ohio, Kentucky, and Iowa.
And they go on down and they take the states and they go on.
Well, it doesn't matter.
The president has a choice to decide.
Well, all right, then what do you do?
You say you'll cost yourself the money.
You've lost your political advantage.
You're infinitely worse off now.
That's what it is.
I think so.
What's the cost?
Oh, it's a wild guess.
They said 35 million, but I would suggest that it's a year from now.
Now, they've been good.
We had a little talk after the flight.
I thought they really could influence production.
They could.
They went a lot for good.
I thought they would do.
A year from now, we ended up with 125 million pounds of metal produced.
I don't know if they've even done it in any organization.
that they recognize that they made a mistake and we want to tell our members they had to survive.
We will talk about that.
It seems to me that the problem we have, Cliff, is that as you know, we have decided on a different course of action in the change business.
Well, what I mean is that when you're signing that, that was always what you were trying to do.
The higher you raise your price, the more certain it is that you have to be strict about the imports.
Otherwise, all we're doing is paying the money to the farmers.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
The import business.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Actually, you can see that knife right here.
Ah.
Ah.
That's right.
Well, it's one of those things where all you experts sitting around, we have to make a political judgment.
My political judgment is that Congress is going to pass it.
I could not be told, not because they're melters, because they're farmers.
And we would be just turning down the whole band in the middle of America, where we need support.
And under certain circumstances, I think the best thing to do is to relax and enjoy it.
There's a price to trade for both years, if you do it.
Trade for this year and next year, if you possibly can.
For these people, yes, sir.
Well, yes, sir, that'd be done.
Yes, sir, that'd be great.
Yes, sir, if you make a deal with the two here, yes, sir, that'd be done.
They'll do that.
Won't they do it?
I don't know how they would like to say it.
I guess that's correct.
The other thing is, I saw the other night, that, uh, on the ground floor, there's a fire danger.
You're supposed to have two of them unloaded.
Uh, with destruction industry, with labor.
Uh, and then, why do you need to chase it with us?
All that means is our calls keep rising, and we're in the police.
And so if you can't handle it, that's not the problem.
And this is our answer.
Let's put it that way.
You can't settle for it.
It's all right.
Make the best deal you can.
Do it for two years.
We hold it to it.
And I say I appreciate the judgment to the contrary.
We just have to deal with this.
We must do it one other day.
That's what I know we're doing.
Let's get credit for what we've got.
We're going to do this for others.
Let's please them out there and do our suggestion.
Well, let's don't trade through agriculture on the merits.
Yeah.
Until some other conversation you're having.
Yeah.
There's a little work to do with that page.
Well, I mean, Mom told me.
All I'm saying is no.
You know they're just saying, for everything, you know, you can get Alex on that.
You can hold your position now until you hit the green light.
Oh, sure.
What?
I'm saying that the next reporter doesn't need to do anything right away.
The sooner you do it, the better off they are.
Yeah, I'll pay on his own.
I wish he hadn't done it quite this way, but on his own.
Talk to the Speaker.
And Wilbur, how can we agree to hold the bill until he can talk to the White House?
He would make it as far as I can.
Somebody can make a little capital with the Speaker and with Wilbur.
After you do this, somebody can do it.
Now, they'll say, well, you know, they'll say, well, he didn't close me under his door.
But I know somebody down here, he might have a little time.
How much, how much, I don't know.
But it's worth trying.
Because they're both extremely interested in this.
They'll move over there.
They'll say, well, I'd like to get a picture of something.
And I'll say, well, sir, nothing.
I'll get it.
You know what's going to happen?
It's not going to happen.
As a side note, this ruler passed a message to me by a few years ago to thank you very much.
Apparently, his family was getting out around to the White House.
Let me tell you how important it is to Wilbur.
And I don't want to keep bouncing this.
I haven't pursued it.
I haven't fought it enough, and I won't do it.
But I was told that he had almost made me apprised of Wilbur's short of all-out support resolution.
He did.
No.
He's that close to him.
That's right.
And he knows where to go.
Yeah.
That's right.
He's got to figure out a way to get there.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I noticed they have a strong man of arms on there.
Well, let me ask this guy in trouble.
My point is, this is something where I would not have done it if he was with me.
I'm in that culture.
Let's have it done in a way where somebody has to get something out of me.
I'm gonna have George see my wife.
Sure, on a billboard.
Sure.
How would that be?
Does that sound all right to you, John?
No, I think somebody else is gonna need to start gapping.
I think George or Gavin.
Who else see my wife?
I can't do the same with a speaker.
But I mean, the point is, when you do something for these souls, remember, don't just run away.
Turn around that way and get a picture of those.
Thank you.
He tied in a, keep in mind that Wilbur called me twice about that.
I didn't care at all for him.
He just called you about it.
Wilbur called me about it.
Very unusual.
He just wanted to do that.
Well, that's fine.
We'll talk to you about it.
All right.
I think what our pledge should be here is basically...
I think, yes, George and John, what do you think?
How could that be great?
They're going to have to deal with revenue sharing and all these other programs.
I think you could do the best work.
You, of course, have all the age.
I mean, you've got the cookies there.
They'll love them.
I love them.
They're here, those fellows.
They're less capable than us.
I like you.
I think we've got to give them a chance to holler at them.
That's right.
That's right.
What would you like to do?
Well, I don't think he gets no charge now.
I think he has those keys.
Good.
I think he's pretty good.
That's going to be under pressure.
I think if he can get the wheeler and the speaker quickly, then we can pull the page.
He's almost done.
As soon as they know we're taking them out, they have to be fast.
I think there's a problem, I think.
I'm pretty sure you got a date on it.
What's that?
You didn't get it from Wilbur.
Yeah, we have to tell you how to do it.
You want to do it at the same time, but I don't see any different people doing it, so they don't...
Yeah, that's correct.
That's correct.
It's going to have to almost become Simon Danielson to vote against the Senate.
It's pumped.
It's so important that everybody's going to know it.
The president's going to know it.
He's going to have his phone and call the mayor.
The Senate wants the mayor to know all of them.
I'll say.
Other than our Jews and somebody who doesn't want to talk to the mayor, no doubt.
So you make a two-year deal.
Two-year deal.
I think first you've got to, well then, the narrative's on its own.
But all I'm expressing to you now is just what you could ask, if we're able to do it, would you be satisfied to do this alone next year?
You know, that's probably just a good way to get out of here.
We don't have to make you a secretary.
We wouldn't have that.
We would have to get it done.
And we have to get it done.
I don't know.
They won't tell us.
All right.
May I also ask you about the deal that presented to me.
I work with him a lot.
I'm not a fine man.
No, no, no.
His idea is that he'll say, look, if we worry we'll do this, we'll do this.
See?
No, no.
Still that thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that way the decision's still open then.
Cool.
And you can pretty well steal this, John and George.
You can talk to Wilbur.
You can have the speaker.
The two-year aspect to now.
You can do that all right.
Well, but I'm counting on a great point of finding it.
And then as that started, as it started to go to production, if you don't keep down the line, you'll be in more trouble in the end.
Yes, it will be two years off and not next year.
It takes longer than that.
There's one thing about this.
There's one thing about this industry that is
It's a big business.
Exactly.
You know, people say, it's a matter of fact, I get the impression, Cliff, and I'm not too much of an expert, but I get the impression, for example, regarding the price of hogs, people who go into that business should be like, yeah, they're pretty easy to use.
The other hand, it requires an enormous investment.
You know, you can raise more days, right?
Yes, and it has to be fast, fast.
And that's why the big car-mock ratio, that business goes up and down almost like an escalator.
I have two letters per year to average out a million letters per year.
That's a study on all this.
And it's costly.
It's a problem.
It approaches $2,000 per cow, so you just multiply 50 cows, 100 cows, 150 cows, but $2,000 to $5,000, you've got a pretty good investment.
Well, you have to determine something, so somebody's going to go into that business.
I mean, it's a regular thing, so it's a big, good thing.
You can't think of less than 50 cows.
Yeah, yeah.
We had one who lived at Perry Farmer's 10 years ago down at the border town of Winchester.
But, uh...
The scary thing is they have the council and they're following their advice.
Well, they do have the council.
They had a little bit.
Got a little bit.
Yeah, they made a little step.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Well, they're sure.
They're sure.
All they're talking about is the line.
I'm not a person who's done that.
I've just done that.
I'm not a person who's done that.
Right, we won't prosecute the partners.
Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
Some other things, I'm just resonating.
It doesn't matter, but- Griffin.
No, no, maybe the media works.
Well, I'm excited that we did try and order a little possible.
A little possible.
And this is just going to raise half of the capital all over again.
But we just got them all quieted down.
They've all written heartaches.
They're just bleeding.
What about the president?
What did I do?
I dropped him in.
I imported him out to Washington.
Well, all that middle, the middle of the U.S. And so I called him and I said, now I want to see you bleed your complications.
I want you to post all this.
I said, what about the president?
He went all out with the U.S.
Well, they said, we gotta help you just a little.
And I said, if I see one word, I'm going, and I'm going to, damn, I'm going to use you.
I'm going to get in my office again, and I made myself clear.
And they just sent in their applications.
They just couldn't go all out.
And, uh, uh, so, uh, uh, let's open this up again now.
And Jackson would be terrible.
There's no, there's no back out to any of it.
It's just, George King, he taught that guy.
He's the one that's given the Nixon administration the reputation for being for low farm prices.
If there was a lot, he comes out with something.
Sure never gets reflected in the CPI, except not this last month.
It was for six months before that.
So we've got to get credit for that.
Now that's a wholesale present tax.
That's skyrocketing.
That's what I mean, food.
And our consumer's price index was about another one.
Uh, left no change.
That's good for the big increase in food prices now, I'm not saying.
And that food is going to be long on sale price.
This one.
But, uh, the meat, the meat area is going to be a problem for us if we're going to get into that one.
Well, from that consumer side, we're ready for the, uh, new view of the city back out of our school.
Well, the poor price is going to be down.
First of all, I'd like to thank Lee.
I'm going to have a full order and possibly, well, I've never had a single problem with him, but I think he's out of the subject, yes.
Come on.
Come on.
I would like to know, Cal, where is he doing the inventory class that we did last year?
Possibly.
I'll be glad to see him again.
I do.
I'll probably look forward to it 10 million times this thing.
All these things, it's just the same thing when we discuss steel and quartz or other things, shoes or what have you.
On the one hand, there's the grooves that it's pushing, and on the other hand, there's the consumer in it.
It, uh, it's my first time here.
Well, how's that for you?
It's particularly good.
Yeah, yeah, that's the best thing.
That's the, it's the, uh, I hear you make the, it's, uh, I don't know where he studies it.
He keeps it trashed up, but, uh, and he's bashing on his bottle.
Can't he set it up?
He can set it up.
Is that fair enough?
We're going to have to do it.
Yeah, of course.
Put his hand on that.
Well, you know, Eddie, I cannot talk about that.
You can't forget me and every partner of the industry government.
And I cannot thank you enough, Peter.
Oh, sure you can.
Sure you can.
You haven't threatened no one.
That's all right, Bill.
The cattle have been pretty good since the first season.
What cattle price did it down?
How much did it down from their hives, your question?
A few months.
It goes back up to 80 pounds, but their hives are hot, so those are not their hives.
And just remember, when we talk about food prices, and I'm a big food consumer, that today, food prices in the United States are cheaper than they've ever been in the history of this nation, in terms of what it takes for, well, hours of work to feed the land at 16%.
That's the lowest it gets in the world.
I don't know.
I studied high school.
I studied high school.
But we'll try to keep the cattle on our hands for the moment.
We never wanted to lose that one.
The timing of the announcement that you had tonight, very closely with these contacts.
Yeah, right.
Someone who's contacted doesn't
We'll coordinate that on that.
I think we have to get this group together, but we have to get Colson and Bob Cole in this, too.
And, uh, so we've got to get Colson dealing with the, uh... Well, Matthew, now, I think we've got a good game plan.
You, you, uh, you know that you're friends with our friends, and I'm going back.
For whatever reason, you do, uh, Mr. Mills, and Mr., uh... Albert.
And then I understand Phil will get the dairy people and say, all right, don't bug us next year.
Next year, you're going to get the same thing, George, from the speaker.
All right.
And what we're going to do is...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
You know, I've seen the bill.
I didn't hear it.
Yeah, I told him.
Now it's ascending.
Now it's ascending.
That few times when you look right into the lens, that was just magnetic.
And now two minutes with you on my shirt.
Sure, sure, sure.
to make sure that there's a very substantial allocation of all that material.
We ensure that you're refreshing.
Unless you want somebody else to do it, somebody else to do it, somebody else to do it, somebody else to do it.
It ought to be done, too.
I'm just going to say it now.
If this is done, I don't expect it.
Thank you, thank you.
Mr. President, I really thank you for providing CAO.
I'm sorry to bug you about it, but I'm really, I'm glad you did.
When do we meet again?
Where are we meeting?
Having a meeting of the, oh, no, no, here's the committee.
That's next week.
Pat, I want you to... Have you spent any time with Peterson yet?
Yes, sir.
I have, not enough, but I...
I told you to get over it's been some time with you because, you see, he's going to get involved in all these...
It's very important that you and his relations be very close to you at the same department.
You see, he told me that you would address the same thing, and I do exactly the same thing.
But the way that we can avoid that, John, is for you to take a strong decision.
Well, I told you yesterday, we talked about this, I told you yesterday, one proposition that we agreed on today, which I think you perfectly agree with, in going over and patting the Spanish in the attendance on the back a little, so as to pave the way for what we have to do on the terror commission shoes, and also maybe the Japanese textbook, and he's got a little plan here,
We don't want you to date Kennedy.
He's a bastard of ours.
He's got prestige and so forth.
It's not right to do this to a person.
He's really our man.
I'm just saying.
All right.
Thank you.