Nixon, Chow & Chennault on Taiwan-US relations and People's Republic of China

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Mr. President, one point I wanted to mention about the Chinese ambassador.

He's going to be, as you know, a Chinese foreign minister.

And we're going to announce the relaxation of our trade restrictions.

He's going straight back to Taipei.

I wonder whether you could just mention that to him so that he doesn't arrive there.

Severe laws of fate have exceeded you.

and not having been told about.

Now, this first group, there are actually three groups of relaxations.

The first one is minor.

It's entry of Chinese currency control, bunkering some shipping restrictions.

So...

These are rather minor things of a symbolic nature.

Now, what is the situation?

What are we talking about regarding the U.S. and the United States?

We have a tough fight there.

And that we're taking by the law and all that sort of thing.

I think you might tell him, unless you'll send somebody out there to get the generalissimo.

I want to get his views on a very private basis.

I don't want to have somebody go out and get his own views.

That's what we ought to do.

Unless you'll be happily influenced.

But I just didn't want to... You know what it is?

Yes, I must tell him.

It's an interesting thing.

We're saying goodbye to him on the day that the ping-pong team, the way that, you know, it's almost like a comic book.

The ping-pong team makes the front page of the New York Times.

They are very subtle, though, these scientists.

All right.

They didn't mean something, though, did they?

No question.

And the ping pong team, and the big fuss they make of it, and they invited our team and not the Japanese who were the hosts at the tournament in Japan.

And they wouldn't have the ping pong with them.

No.

Sit down, sit down.

I'm concerned I cannot leave this country without expressing my gratitude to you as a friend, you as the Chief of State, and all your kindness to this country and to me personally.

I can always catch up.

He's hungry.

He's hiding.

I carry him.

Well, we were sorry to see you go.

We know you're going to be foreign minister though, so we're glad that you will be there in that position.

You'll take over as foreign minister, will you?

Yes.

I'm arriving on the 14th of April.

Yes, yes.

Thank you.

Uh, five years.

Five years.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Well, I wish, John, I want you to personally convey my warmest wishes to him and to Madame Chang and also to others in the background.

I know many, so many have been there.

They would be such a warm welcome.

Also, you extend my experiences of our firmness and our treaty commitments with Taiwan.

No question about that.

I stated that in our State of the World message.

He knows that.

I know, too, that some concerns have been expressed in Taipei about some of the taxation of travel and trade with regard to Communist China.

Let me just say that what we do there, Mr.

Ambassador, in no way has any, is a derogation of our, my view toward your government and toward President Kirsten and

We have been friends, we've been allies, and we continue to be friends and allies.

We have the problem, which we cannot ignore, but we, and for example, this next week there's a, there will be, you know, some ping pong teams who are there now, which is rather good.

They'll probably lose, but nevertheless, ours will lose, I mean, but

And this week, you'll be on a very modest trade announcement.

And not trade, but what is it, Henry?

Something about exchange or something?

Does that have anything to do with the meeting?

communist Chinese people traveled here, something that people really loved at once in the 1950s, and some minor currency control port issues.

and some shipping, some minor symbolic pieces of shipping regulations.

None of them amount to much in themselves.

In fact, they're all amount to anything in themselves.

But there may, there probably may be no reciprocation.

But let's come to the key point that I think is, I want to talk to you very frankly about, and I want you to talk to the journalists more about it.

Well, let's come back to these other points.

First, as I do say, I want you, because you are going back, I want you to be aware of the fact, because I didn't, it's only coincidental, because this was, the Congress Department came up with this about four or five months ago.

Coincidentally, it's a Wednesday or sometime this week, but it's a, there being this announcement with regard to

There's currency, you know, it's very, uh, there's a lot of things, for example, that are not as Chinese and American as it is.

can catch Chinese cultural figures, not Chinese poets, well that's never going to happen, you know.

And do his own foreign flag vessels, not American ships, but do his own foreign flag vessels and call them Chinese poets.

It's this sort of, it's the kind of thing that we really

have no choice on because of the fact that in order to compete they're going to have to do this.

I don't think that they're, certainly they're not going to allow for this one.

is the U.N. position.

On that, you will be asked about what our conversation was.

I would just be mum.

I would say, no, this is a busy table.

Ask me.

I'm going to be meeting the nation's editors on Friday, and I'm going to stick together because our position is the same.

With regard to the whole business of the, we talk about the travel trade thing, you know, that's only a, it's like our travel trade with Eastern Europe.

It's like our trade with the Soviet and the rest.

We don't like any of it.

I don't.

But it's part of the world we live in.

But it has absolutely no relationship to our treaty commitment, our alliance, our friendship with Thailand.

If I am solid, absolutely solid, as long as I'm here, and incidentally there are many in our government that don't feel that way.

Of course, quite not, mentally.

But we have a problem here.

I particularly wonder about you as Chinese.

I mean, Chinese are the most sophisticated people in the world.

You've got to look at all these stuff.

I'll help you.

That's what I deeply, very regret.

But the only regime in Jesus that I can interpret into, right?

Interpret to my government and people, right?

It's written here, I'm your friend, Jesus.

So that we will not get panicked.

Ah, right.

Small matters.

No, don't let them do it.

When you see these small matters, don't get them.

Don't get them.

Because you also want to remember something big may happen later.

Yes.

Which may be the other side.

Yes.

So, uh, I, I, I do.

Yeah.

We have great confidence in our ambassadors.

Yes.

And the reason I do not want

This gold is not because I am not confident in the country, but I don't want it on the wire.

So I want to give you a little souvenir to take with you.

Let's see.

Hold on.

Here's the presidential cup.

I'll be your wife.

You don't take off these.

Oh, for 50 years.

Thank you.

I'll see you there.

That's right.

You understand?

I agree.

Either way, sir.

On the triangle, Arthur, you are aware that there are other forces that... Oh, sure.

Well, we don't want to, sir.

We don't want to, sir.

We don't want to... We also don't want to... We also don't want to... We also don't want to...

Thank you for having me, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Well, God would be over him.

He's a tall man.

He's better than all these other bastards.

Oh, why does Brady have to mention the God damn thing?

Oh, basically...

They said I'm a riot!

It's better because these guys over...

Basically you have to remember this too.

What he says about the overseas Chinese is true.

Listen, the overseas Chinese start their offense and they start going to the other side.

You could have one.

That's part of the problem with the recognition of communist China, you know.

You'll have the Chinese in San Francisco and New York all being communist agents.

And they're capable of it.

Of course they are.

They will go with a strong central government.

That's good.

This is getting back in here.

Here's one.

I've got a note.

It's over here.

There's no pictures.

No service

You've got a tough situation here.

And Marshall ringing Russian over to see Connelly and give him a big song and dance burns my tail because, god damn, I don't mind him talking to Connelly, but you say that he didn't give Connelly the accurate facts.

Did you talk to Connelly?

I don't know if you talked to Connelly.

Did he get Connelly straight down?

Yeah.

Conley said before he was that if it's going to happen, he should take the leadership.

No one calls him the leadership.

No, no, what Conley didn't want is what he said, but he went out there and was insulting.

Mr. President, he's absolutely right.

Well, how are you?

I can see you again.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

All right.

Fine.

All right.

Here we are.

There.

Thank you.

Sit here?

Yes.

That's where we put the scissors, right there.

Oh, yes.

What's also going on?

Where are you?

Have you just finished your trip?

Yes, I...

I finished it, and I came back about two weeks ago.

Where were you then?

Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea, Bangkok, and Thailand, Philippines, Singapore,

Taiwan.

But I think all the presidents of each country, and also the prime minister, and the military leaders, and so forth,

I have a few messages from each of the presidents, and I like to start with President Chu very quickly.

I had two visits with President Chu.

It lasted one day, one Saturday, and then he asked me to go back and talk to him again.

Of course, that was the time during our operations, and he felt at that time that even earlier he was talking about hoping to have aid with him.

He pleaded me, expressed that to get the belt to the bucket, and I also talked to him about the bucket.

President Tu will be very busy with the United States, busy now, and he will focus on that.

If Tu could, maybe in the part of April or May, if that is not a vehicle that he would try to get away from his office,

He thought it would be important to him and his election, and he thought that he might want to talk to you personally, particularly on the prisoner award.

On the prisoner wall, he told me that he had proceeded to release many of the prisoners, not only as a gesture, but

the United States has opted to.

However, he said he had to keep some of it for his own father in the future.

He felt that, of course, Ross Perot, the man who involved with the Christmas War, he sent his effective vice president and another vice president to travel.

He called me up on that when I was going.

And so I agreed to come along, and they traveled me to certain places.

make some contact.

President Till refused.

He didn't say that he would give an all-town company.

demonstrations, and protests, and so forth, would get too far.

And he sort of let you know that not only did he let you know that he was a Christian, not only did he let you know that he was a Christian, not only did he let you know that he was a Christian,

From the field, that is.

Oh yeah, that's the selfish.

And of course, we, the public, as in this country, we all want to do something for the Christian world.

However, if the public get too emotional about this, then it could

in 1968, whether it's dog-bombing or dog-bombing or negotiating or not negotiating, and it could develop into this kind of situation.

Now, this is his message.

And then the

suggest maybe it could be Hawaii would be easier for you, or Guam would be easier for him.

He definitely does not want to come to Washington.

Oh, that's nice.

It should be that way.

Yes, yes.

And so, of course, I...

I have no official knowledge.

Yes, and certainly, of course, we've been friends for many years, and he trusted me, but he didn't.

whether this thing will work out or not, he wants to make people know about the work.

That's what he did.

He gave it to me, and he and Benjamin Bunker worked on it.

So I'm very happy of that situation.

General Abrams and General Williams, I also have talked to them.

And I think the general feeling in Vietnam now is maybe we're moving out a little bit too fast, and they might be having fun.

And they...

because they said, well, this is your president's problem, and we really want to let you know about this situation.

Generally speaking, I think that everything looks rather well.

And I talked to David Kennedy before he went out, I think he's a regional minister.

And President Chu also emphasized that

military and economic improvements should work together now with this generalization.

If we could emphasize on economics, building the country, and so forth, instead of letting the press focus too much on the military operations, it might help in that respect.

That's another of his suggestions.

What if they, uh, even have silly ping-pong games going on over there, you know?

Yes, yes.

Instead of us, uh, people who build the board.

Well, you know, Mr. President, I think our U.S. businessmen, they're so anxious.

Oh, they're trained.

That's right.

They know there's no trade, but they want it.

They want it, but they don't, they can't understand that there's no trade.

Now, I've been appointed to be special, uh, assistant to that.

to the chair of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to Pacific and Southeast Asia.

And I told him, I said, you know, look at all the other countries already established trade with China, but there's nothing to gain.

I said, the only thing that the communists

You can't tell a business man that.

You know that.

She's very clever.

She knows his business man like the back of her hand.

You're a business woman.

Yes, I'm a business woman and I hear this even among our own company.

But I saw that NMTW is already having solutions.

Well, we hold our position.

What we have to do is to be clever.

Everybody must be clever, but keep some principles.

That's right.

And we must not let our friends...

So you have to wait to hear from the President to see what happens.

Yes.

Well, I think this new ambassador has the President's comments.

Yes, yes.

Complete.

And the President-in-Chief also gave me this message.

I'm not trying to downgrade any official.

He said that there are certain things that maybe you can tell them if they're keeping fingers or a present, but as far as the State Department is concerned, I don't know.

Sometimes they say that we don't want to

to give them the message, because they're the ones who know about it.

They're not the third party.

So this is the problem.

So in Thailand, I saw the Prime Minister and I saw M. Aung San Suu Kyi, very powerful man, very, very good friend.

And he said, he said, just tell President Lee that we are one 90% behind him.

I'm worried about the statements of the foreign minister.

Come on.

Yes, he is fighting the prime minister and Dami and Davis.

But the prime minister is solid.

Very solid.

But prime minister and Dami are together.

But the foreign minister, they are having differences now, but he can deal with them in a year or so.

I don't know how they're going to work out their differences, but they're...

The Foreign Minister seemed to be going out on his own and making all kinds of statements, which upset the Prime Minister and A. Marshall Dowdy, and they told me so.

But I also, to be completely honest with you, I have been lucky to be Foreign Minister.

He's a funny man.

Very funny.

But I think he is like Romano right now.

They're right.

They're all.

And Romano is now a present idol who is reporting also on Mark 13.

Yeah.

It's pretty bad, huh?

Yeah.

Well, it's not as bad as they say as the press.

Good.

The press and Mark 13.

Of course, he's very much worried about sugar-coating.

He said this is number one on his agenda.

He needs to get that.

several before him going to other problems.

However, he feels that as some other leaders in Asia also, Singapore and in Korea and Taiwan, they hope that

In the next few months, before the end of this year, we have more communications beside the representatives from the State Department and investors and so forth.

I talked to and I have a long talk with Senator Hilaire also.

On the military side, I will talk to him.

Sure, sure, sure.

He told me he'd go in July.

The last item that, Mr. President, I'm not trying to go by the horn, but the Asians today look upon me as their trusted friend and also very proud that I'm American and yet understand their problems and can explain to them the United States' problems.

So many of them asked me, well, why are you not asked as a football ambassador?

We wish you could come more to see us with certain titles, except as a friend to the President.

such as, you know, Mr. President, you have Mr. Thompson as a consultant, or even Mr.

Bowman,

to help me push through the wall.

I'm not asking for a job.

I go to the parties every other month.

Every other month?

Yes.

And I can pick up the telephone and call any president and talk to them.

And they trust me.

than anybody else.

And I think because I myself am Asian, sometimes I say, you are wrong.

This is not correct.

And I don't believe it.

Sometimes they agree with me.

They think you, of course, are here.

Well, of course I told them I'm American.

But I said, I'm American.

and issues have a lot of common interests, and you have to work it out.

And to work it out, maybe sometimes it's good that we sit down and talk about it, because the teachers and all your people are so busy.

And I might make use of my trip to be a liaison for you very quietly.

And the reason they trust me is because

I never, I never thought, and in 1967, 68, of all this, I sat there and that really presented to have great admiration and trust in me and of course even all the other leaders, you know, that I never, you know, I said I'm not afraid of the president, I just support him and I will always support him and therefore I can

Let me, let me tell you one thing that, uh, I think that you should know.

First of all, I, uh,

We had a very difficult problem on Vietnam, not in terms of how it's going to come out there, but in terms of anything here.

So I had to fight it all the time.

And so we now, we're fighting it right out, but it's very tough.

Because now we lose our talks.

Our talks, we get tired and frustrated.

We've done everything we can.

But we're going to see the truth.

We're going to see the truth.

If we can lie and say, look, the second climate, the third climate, the fourth climate,

I told the ambassador that I had been a friend of General Samosa and of the Chinese for some years, and longer, about three or four years, that I continue to be, and that as a friend and an ally, that we will stand by our friends and allies.

The practical problem you have is the one you mentioned.

Are we going to get, using the American international rule, in the UN this year, whether the candidates deserve this, some of these Africans?

So now we have this problem.

We are, so just tell, I just want you to know that I will, when I meet the nation's editor, I'm going to say our position has not changed.

In other words, I stick by our position until we all decide that there should be some other position.

So that's the way we have to play the game.

Now, the other thing is that the, however,

In order to keep our own situation credible at all, we had made, as you noted, a couple of very modest gestures with regard to travel and trade on a main college channel.

They don't mean anything.

Right.

Symbolically, but they have to be done.

Yes, I understand.

And we will make another one on Wednesday.

It just, it involves a few, the use of ships between Nan and Florida, the U.S. border.

You understand that.

Okay.

But you've got to tell your friends here in the Chinese community.

Don't get us disturbed about it because the important thing is the online standards.

I stand by the Illinois Department of Health.

I will continue to stand by it.

They're our friend, and we're not going to put our friends down too soon.

Now, on the other hand, we still have, we cannot just stand here and act as if

Communist China did not exist.

We see we have got other problems in the world.

We've got the problems of our Russian friends.

You know, grabbing on the Russian and so forth.

So you see what I'm getting at.

And if you would be very helpful, if you could reassure our friends here.

Now look here, don't get all uproar, because after all, let's face it.

I am the only president, if either party in this office would stand this term.

I stand against the whole State Department today.

As Henry will tell you, the whole State Department came in a meeting, well, about every month.

So you've got to change your policy.

I said, no, not until we hear the general response.

So we're waiting.

That doesn't mean that we can't go our own way at times.

But he must understand, too, that he must not get too excited.

On the other hand, we don't want the overseas names.

And I'm referring now to the

people in Malaysia, Singapore, other places, to lose, you know, for them to start to say, oh, well, we might as well just get comments.

We don't want that to happen.

So this is a very tough game, of course.

This is what I want you to know.

The other thing is that...

Henry, I think it would be helpful, the next time she goes out, that you can arrange this.

Rather than any, I'm not sure the title is the right idea, or is it going to become too...

Identified.

Then I need the press to ask you questions.

Yes.

If you go as a deficient.

On the other hand, I claim to think that we could...

Unless you're on something like the Coral Sea or something.

I think they're making the indication that you should go out with a little message you can leave to somebody, you know what I mean?

Yes.

Where they know the rack.

Yes.

The rack.

The rack, so that there's an agency that has to answer to us.

See what I mean?

Yes, because that at all, the president...

It will give me certain to see that, and it would also, you see, I'm actually all around Asia and the United States also.

Now, you talk about open sea Chinese, this is what's happening now.

They are so discouraged because they're getting the wrong message all the time.

And it's always going to say, bother us, and we might go down in time, and so on.

So let's discuss the situation as to what we can do.

Because I think her, you know, she goes over there and everybody knows she supported me in 1968 and she is, and I think it's important that we have somebody who lives with sophistication.

Yes, the embassies are well.

I have no problem with the embassies.

They are all my friends.

The problem is, I do have a title as the special assistant to the chairman of the American Chamber of Commerce already, but this is not official.

The official title could be something like a liaison or something.

We'll figure something out.

That's easy.

I don't think that's the best.

Well, that may be the best.

It may turn out to be the best.

Unless we can figure out how to trade one of the attachments, then that's a good cover.

Because she can get some good information from us.

And for the client, there are many areas I would still help.

And to bring back the fact that they just won't tell anybody else.

Right.

Well, we've been working together.

Well, we're Haitians.

We're Haitians.

Because what happens if you are alive, they are all white.

And it is the same problem.

The Asian deaths, the Asian affairs.

Senator Johnson and Bob Murphy, after the election, even Trump came in and they were the men who were protesting.

One last word to the soldier about his election.

And of course he is very anxious for the meeting, and he just lightly mentioned to me that unless he is 150% sure of his victory,

I don't.

I understand.

We're very close to that situation.

He sometimes, and he and I are very close friends, but sometimes he's afraid of his own empathy and love.

Oh, I know.

Well, he's right.

You tell everybody to stand firm.

Keep fighting.

Thank you, Mr. President.

The good guys will win.

They have to.

Well, we will.

We're looking on our next election morning.

I wish to God, you know, there's such a tragedy that the 700 billion people that live on the main...

I told Free China, I said, look, the biggest competition you can demonstrate is economic improvement, advancement.

You are so far ahead than the communists.

They have more exports than all of England.

This is the thing they have not used.

You are not doing very well.

People are too miserable.

You are a lot of people.

Uh, country, I mean, I would love it.

I would do a better job.

You know why.

Oh, I gave you a little trinket to take with you.

Would you like to take it with you?

Oh, thank you.

All right.

Thank you.

Excuse me.

I didn't mean to have a trinket, sir.

I have a trinket.

You have a trinket?

I have a trinket.

Oh, I see.

I see.

The one that we took.

Oh, yes.

There's your chance.

I'd like a ticket.

How many?

Two dollars.

Two more.

Thank you.

There we are.

Well, we are so glad to see you.

Yes, if you have anything you'd like, we might have something to pass on.

Thank you.

All right, thanks.

And thanks for coming in.

They're all here.

Thanks for being here.

I know you're people who work over these years.

We appreciate it.

Thank you.

We like to see you.

You're like a hard-fighting friend.

Well, not too many of us left.

Ah, there wasn't, you think?

Nixon, Chow & Chennault on Taiwan-US relations and People's Republic of China

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Also recorded on April 12, 1971

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