{"conversationCode":"477-004","tapeNumber":477,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-477-004","startDateTime":"1971-04-12T17:42:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-04-12T17:46:00.000Z","startDate":"12-Apr-1971","startTime":"12:42 PM","endDate":"12-Apr-1971","endTime":"12:46 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On April 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:42 pm to 12:46 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 477-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 477-004\n\nDate: April 12, 1971\nTime: 12:42 pm - 12:46 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger\n\n     Kissinger’s schedule\n           -John D. Rockefeller, III\n           -Vietnam\n\n     Green brothers\n          -Press story\n                -Vietnam\n\n     Anna C. Chennault\n          -Role\n          -Letter\n                -Distribution\n\n     People’s Republic of China [PRC] - Taiwan\n          -US position\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:42 pm\n\n     Press photograph\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 12:46 pm\n\n     Vietnam\n          -Democrats\n          -Radicals\n          -Withdrawal\n          -US agreements\n          -Deadlines\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n            -General Nguyen Van Thieu\n            -Nguyen Cao Ky\n            -Withdrawal\n            -Prisoners of War [POWs]\n                  -Charles W. Colson\n                  -US policy\n                  -POW wives\n\nKissinger left at 12:46 pm","filename":["477-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"02:35:11","tapeEnd":"02:38:05","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A.","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"477-003","nextCode":"477-005","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":16.1,"text":"I'm going to have lunch with some rocky fellow who, three weeks ago, was reporting about having to say nothing on Vietnam, so I..."},{"start":16.12,"end":16.7,"text":"I'll give him a little help."},{"start":16.72,"end":17.32,"text":"That's how it is between them."},{"start":17.52,"end":17.84,"text":"So, come on."},{"start":17.86,"end":19.95,"text":"The three brothers, between them, have a little bit of guts, but I..."},{"start":20.67,"end":29.68,"text":"What the hell is the matter with that?"},{"start":29.7,"end":32.73,"text":"Because the American families, it's a..."},{"start":32.75,"end":33.31,"text":"It is really a tragedy."},{"start":33.33,"end":36.23,"text":"They're so close to making it."},{"start":36.39,"end":37.99,"text":"Well, they don't have the ground up."},{"start":38.01,"end":38.95,"text":"So they must have talked about it."},{"start":39.32,"end":39.6,"text":"No, they will."},{"start":39.62,"end":40.2,"text":"They're not going to make it."},{"start":40.22,"end":40.82,"text":"They're not going to make it."},{"start":40.84,"end":45.12,"text":"We've got a hell of a problem here, which we'll talk about later."},{"start":45.42,"end":60.3,"text":"You know, that little gal is a smart one."},{"start":62.31,"end":64.33,"text":"God damn, why she doesn't talk to all these people."},{"start":64.35,"end":70.76,"text":"She gets right in the seat and talks to all of them."},{"start":70.78,"end":71.78,"text":"What we will do is put her on an actual committee."},{"start":71.8,"end":72.7,"text":"She can be in charge of art and so forth."},{"start":72.72,"end":73.26,"text":"I'll sign up for something."},{"start":73.28,"end":74.14,"text":"I appreciate your work, the letter on that."},{"start":74.16,"end":75.26,"text":"You know, she'll broker that all over here."},{"start":75.6,"end":81.83,"text":"But you know, we're not really"},{"start":85.87,"end":98.47,"text":"She stayed very close, but God damn, you know, these Chinese folks, they've been out for years, and they're still fighting."},{"start":98.49,"end":99.55,"text":"God damn, can't we fight?"},{"start":99.57,"end":103.64,"text":"What I do about hell is the matter with us."},{"start":103.66,"end":104.58,"text":"We've got no place to go really because of it."},{"start":104.6,"end":105.88,"text":"What they're eating, they ought to see."},{"start":105.9,"end":109.47,"text":"They don't have a press photo on this particular fish, do they?"},{"start":109.49,"end":110.11,"text":"They do, yes, sir."},{"start":110.13,"end":112.81,"text":"It's kind of a remarkable thing to play high art in the environment."},{"start":119.78,"end":126.55,"text":"That's right."},{"start":126.95,"end":138.56,"text":"So we have the curious situation because all this business about deadlines."},{"start":138.7,"end":142.83,"text":"You, the government, that's one thing they want now."},{"start":142.85,"end":144.99,"text":"They are terrified you're going to make it."},{"start":145.75,"end":157.75,"text":"They know that, but all they have to do is protect your mineral rights."},{"start":157.76,"end":162.99,"text":"You have to have a drug to know when you're withdrawing."},{"start":163.01,"end":164.39,"text":"The thing is, where we have those is prison."},{"start":164.41,"end":165.86,"text":"I've got to get, uh, did Colton talk to you about this line on prison?"},{"start":165.88,"end":166.68,"text":"Well, I'll talk to you about it."},{"start":166.7,"end":170.16,"text":"We've got to get a decision on that, but we can hope so we keep the wire and stay alive."},{"start":170.18,"end":172.45,"text":"Because those first-year gals have gone to all the spots where we stand around."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger discussed various administrative and foreign policy issues, including Kissinger’s upcoming meeting with John D. Rockefeller III and the role of Anna C. Chennault. The conversation shifted to the complexities of the Vietnam War, specifically focusing on the political pressure regarding troop withdrawal deadlines and the urgency of U.S. policy toward prisoners of war (POWs). The discussion emphasized the administration's need to solidify a clear position on POW issues, with plans to coordinate further with Charles W. Colson.","topics":["Vietnam War","Prisoners of War","Anna C. Chennault","Foreign Policy","US Troop Withdrawal","John D. Rockefeller III"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T21:40:00.797Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","prisoners-of-war","anna-c-chennault","foreign-policy","us-troop-withdrawal","john-d-rockefeller-iii"],"audioDurationSec":174,"audioFiles":[{"file":"477-004.mp3","bytes":4174157,"durationSec":173.86,"bitrate":192067,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:48.988Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:47.495Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/477-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/477-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/477/conversation-477-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}