On April 14, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:40 pm and 2:11 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 479-007 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
The approval went to 5534, which would be up from 52 over and gets us back up at the 54 level.
At 55 is the highest we've been since January.
Interested in getting his approval wire up.
Disapproval also went up.
That's right.
No opinion went down five times.
Maybe they had a little more time to poll this time.
No, they didn't.
I question that.
It isn't that.
It's, it's... Do you think they know more about what they think after they think through the thing?
You had a high undecided level that Cali think through it.
Whenever I picked a 232, the undecided that's what I was going to be asking.
Well, that's probably more than 16% of the not knowing when we've been in the news so much.
You know, and then wham, because they don't know what they think about the step you just took, and because Scaliot turned them into the don't know.
And that's sort of, this sort of, that, well, that could still be just a marginal error, of course, but, I mean, it was an error.
The interesting thing is on the, yeah, it could, that's within the prove or disapprove of Vietnam's 48-40, exactly the same as it was before.
It's good to hold that.
And, of course, that was up six points.
That was a big shift of approval from before the speech.
That's the most important thing.
Then, did you see the April 7 TV report?
50% yes, 48 no.
Before it was 53 yes, 47 no.
A little bit more.
A little drop on the yes figure.
But then did you hear or read anything about it?
24 yes, 24 no of the 48.
Before it was 1631.
So that more people became aware of it.
The total awareness went up to 74 before it was 69.
I don't have the right break yet to go to re-figure these figures on the...
The withdrawal plan figures are basically the same on too fast, too slow.
It seems to me that it's an important thing to get out.
One that is interesting, we changed the question.
Remember before, we asked if you would want your Congressman to vote for or against the proposal of withdrawing troops before the end of the year.
before it was 62% said yes.
This was before the speech.
We didn't poll it in the one right after the speech, but we did again last night.
And 63% asked, 28% against, which is really the same as what it was before.
No change in that.
But then we had asked the question before, would you favor the withdrawal of all troops by the end of 1971, even if it meant a defeat in Vietnam?
And then, of those that favored the 27, I mean the 62, that favored, yeah, pull out, it's 39-17.
39 still said yes, 17 said no, the men defeat.
But then this time we changed the question.
We said, would you favor the withdrawal of all U.S. troops, even if the men of communist takeover of South Vietnam?
That's the word.
Then it changed to yes 27, no 29.
communists.
So we say communists take over.
Then the note... You notice all through that speech I use the word enemy and communists, right?
If you will read, if you read some of the other things that are prepared by the state, they say the other side.
Yeah.
And Bob, you lose something if you don't put communists in the program.
That doesn't work against the communists.
Then on the POW, would you favor withdrawal even if the Threaten Manager said give POWs?
Before it was yes 16, no 37.
Now it's yes 12, no 43.
And you take that 43 plus the 28 that are opposed to withdrawal anyway, that are opposed to the resolution anyway, you've got 71%.
who do not favor bringing all troops home by the end of the year, wouldn't you say that based on this poll, both Gallup and Harris have got to, well Harris has got to be better, but Gallup has got to be in the 50% range again.
I mean, he's got Gallup.
50, 37, 13, exactly the same as it was before.
Right.
And that was taken April 2nd to 4th, before the speech.
Yeah.
And before all the Cali stuff really hit.
No, Cali's... No, Cali.
Yeah, it was before the Cali.
Before Cali.
It was after...
It was before Cali.
Yeah.
It was during the Cali...
The first Cali decision had been made, the release from the stockade, but the second one had...
The second one was made on April 3rd, I think, wasn't it?
Saturday.
It was right after that.
I was curious if Gallup shows no increase in the result of the speech then.
Wait a minute, hold on.
Gallup doesn't mention the speech.
Gallup was before the speech.
Oh, wow.
But it's old.
It's exactly what we showed.
Right?
Ours is about that.
Remember?
50.
No, no, we showed 54.
Yeah, but that was in 5th and 6th.
See, that was after Kelly had said it.
But when did Gallup hold the 2nd to the 4th?
Now when we pulled on the first, we had 41.
That was before he did anything on county.
Let's just check that.
How could Gallup still be at 50-37?
That's when he pulled right in the middle of county with 41.
No, but this was after, you would already see after the stockade.
He'd already removed it from the stockade.
And while he was pulling, he just made the decision to review.
You removed it from the stockade the night of, uh, morning of the 2nd.
2nd.
When did Gallop go?
3rd and 4th.
2nd, 3rd, 4th.
Sir, our, then he caught, then he caught, then he caught, then he caught, then he got a second gallop.
When did we go after Gallop?
7th and 6th.
So we got the better of him.
See, Gallop didn't catch the second boy.
That's right.
He didn't catch the second boy.
That's what we were saying.
Gallop wouldn't get, Gallop wouldn't get the second part of that.
But then our 54 dropped back to 52 before the speech.
And then after the speech, it went up to, no, 54 was before the speech, and then it dropped to 52 right after the speech.
But given a few days ago, 54 was right after Kelly.
When we had the full wash of Kelly, that's where 52 was right after the speech.
And now we're at 55-34, which has given us a little time for the speech to send in.
Well, of course, we should, because these numbers can't mean a lot.
They do.
No, the trends mean a little, don't they?
Sure.
But if Gallo runs that, he doesn't run it much.
He's got to say it.
He'll have to say it before the...
He may not run because he's apparently going to run any other coal.
Another one next weekend.
At which time?
No, the 23rd.
At the following weekend.
Yeah, the weekend of the riots.
He's running a coal that will do...
He's running trial heats then.
He didn't do trial heats in this one.
He says, this poll is very difficult to read.
Ordinarily, it would have gone up due to the Cali episode.
However, it's his contention that the economy and the war balanced out any increase from Cali and kept popularity steady.
If he contends that without the Cali episode, the popularity would have gone down.
You've got purple.
No, he probably knows with ORC about that 41 figure.
That's not... No.
I've heard that 41 was with the Cali episode.
That was before Cali.
I mean, that was before we acted.
That was after the conviction and before we acted.
And I don't think Gallop caught the bullet.
Gallop's timing was a little off.
See, our timing was more precise because we timed it to the events where Gallop didn't.
See, his first day's bullet might not have caught the Gallop thing.
A lot of them, right?
That's right.
Saturday that you said you'd review.
And incidentally, the decision regarding the second was not known in the east.
Until noon.
It wasn't reflected in our quote.
It wasn't reflected in our quote on the purse.
It was on the purse that he made sure he let him out of jail.
That wasn't reflected in Article 44.
41?
No, because, no, our federalized indictment was, by the end of the college school day, on the 2nd, did not reflect the college decision at all.
It didn't even reflect letting him out of the grave on that accepted night, unless they pulled the knife.
But he realized it was 6 o'clock in the evening before that got through.
And that was on the 1st.
And we did it all in practice.
My request was to let him out on Thursday and then did the Friday review on Saturday.
No, I think we let him out on Friday and then did review on Saturday.
That was Sunday.
I think it was 1.5.
I thought we should one day let him out and the next day start the review.
You may be right.
No, no, no.
You're right.
It was a day that rose because we watched Joe Dan Callow.
So we had to count the reflection.
The first half of letting him out.
But not a few days.
If he can stabilize it to 50, he doesn't know how down low it was in that period.
That's 41.
That's right.
I think his poll means a damn thing.
I don't think he was wrong.
He may not.
It doesn't do him much good to have a poll that just says the same thing.
Well, also it doesn't do him any good to have a poll that does not reflect speech.
Speech is the main thing.
I think that's interesting, the POW thing.
The POW thing is interesting, Bob, and also what you say about communist takeover.
That's a good thing for me to remember, the communist takeover.
It doesn't bother them too much.
You know what I mean?
They think, oh, Christ is lost anyway.
You can't win.
Get out.
Cut your losses.
But communist takeover...
I'm sure he did speak to us in a different way.
Yeah.
I didn't have a crush.
Henry told me about his, uh... Henry.
I don't know if you've ever met him.
I don't know if you've ever met him.
I don't know if you've ever met him.
I don't know if you've ever met him.
I don't know if you've ever met him.
You know, uh, he's gone through such a beating on this whole thing.
Does he know how to open up the border line?
Don't you tell him.
Hmm?
Okay.
And tell him that I knew it.
That I heard it.
Yeah?
What?
I said I knew it.
He knows the next day.
No, but I didn't know before I made the decision to count it.
You didn't know before you made the stockade decision, but you knew it before you made the decision to review the case.
That's 41.
You knew you were going way down.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We got trial heats then that Joe was leading.
We used that one as our trial heat bowl, remember?
At the time of 4137, we let it on the trial heat, remember?
That's what they put out.
Recall that?
That was Gallup's trial heat stuff.
No, our own.
I'm seeing one of these guys a week.
Well, we've done very well with these television shows.
I have something to say a word with regard to
I know the reason you raised the question, I've been doing it in time.
Is that because you're in here?
Yeah, yeah, you know.
No, no, I feel somewhat happy.
I'm sorry, we had some problems.
We're going to be very close to you.
How much are you worried about the press today?
Now, the point is that on Newsweek, the reason that I leaned against it was that I just feel that you have been, that we have used you over and over again in this weekend time, and got nothing but a screwing, except for Simon.
Now,
I know that what Newsweek has told you is they're going to do a story on our China policy.
They'll go to State and State will piss all over us.
Now, that... Well, I think on China...
I guess I just don't know.
On Vietnam, I think I should absolutely refuse to see them.
All right.
They've had their chance, and we've now established...
They say they won't discuss Vietnam.
...that their ideological position is just...
stronger than... Well, they said they want to talk to me both as a scholar and as a presidential assistant about the implications of the China policies.
And that they're going to do a lead story on China next week, which means they're certainly going to go to the States.
If we don't talk to them, they'll get in trouble.
I think we have such a good story on China policies.
Be sure we can back up what we have been saying.
I know that Thompson and Bowen wrote those memoranda about the funeral.
Oh, yeah.
Wasn't it true that they did oppose our initiative?
And Green did.
Green did.
Mr. President, Green did.
On the Asia trip, Thompson wrote you a memoranda and came in here.
Remember Green?
Green did.
Green did.
Fought the Bucharest trip.
They all fought the Bucharest trip.
Stussell didn't want to approach the Chinese ambassador the way you told him to.
You might.
I think the thing you could tell Cedric, for example, and you could also tell the name,
Should we tell them the way we told Sessions to oppose the congressional issue?
I think we better tell them.
What the hell can you tell them?
The thing that we can get across... You can point out this, that the president started talking about China policy in his article in Foreign Affairs.
What gets across to these guys?
This is not new.
I started in Foreign Affairs.
Remember?
I mean, for example, Stuart Alzheim at that dinner yesterday, which, as I told you, turned into...
trade session for you that said you conduct what he calls the most... Now, I've been at too many of these dinners and you have been there.
The fact that you're a presidential assistant gets you nothing there.
They've never shown me any quarter before.
What he said is that you conduct a long-headed policy.
You plan carefully.
You know what you're doing.
And the thing that I can get across is this is not new.
This is not just one shot.
We've been building for that slowly, deliberately, carefully.
We couldn't tell exactly that they were going to invite a ping-pong team.
I talked to a capo this morning who called me.
I said, he said, were you surprised?
I said, no.
I said, of course.
I don't want to pretend to you that we knew they were going to invite a ping-pong team.
That's right.
I mean, but that something was going to very well happen.
Jesus Christ, that's a big thing.
And now they've invited Tillman Durbin to the New York Times, which is awesome.
And true advice that this morning, this is the beginning of friendship between the Chinese and American people.
And now newsmen will come in in batches.
Oh, Jesus, this is really, this is a drama.
And Mr. Bezos, they can say what they want.
You were the first one.
You see, I said to Capco this morning, I said, you know, you people miss all the good stories.
I said, you read the president's toast at the Cochise for dinner.
The president used for the first time People's Republic of China.
That was last October.
None of you wrote it.
This has been, now I can make quite a story.
I can say, you used People's Republic of China twice.
Then Chu and Lai picked it up.
in an interview with a Japanese newsman.
So this has been going on.
But also that I should restart this whole thing and that I wrote an article in Foreign Affairs in 67 that I had taken as the only position I can take with regard to recognition and admission to the U.N. because we can't let Taiwan down here.
And in that sense, I'm really not concerned about these overseas
I've got Murphy is coming in tomorrow.
Well, he was going to go to Geneva first, but he's canceling that trip.
He's ready to go next week.
Yeah.
All right, I'll get it.
Do we have that Moroccan scheduled for noon tomorrow?
Right.
I just wanted to make sure.
I should see Murphy before he's going to go.
Before I want him to hear directly from me.
He won't get in until 4.30, so about 5.
Sorry, that's fine.
Anytime.
Oh, yes, yes.
5.15.
After Henry sees him, then I want you to bring him over.
Right.
I want him to go this time as a presidential minister.
I'm going to tell him about it.
Bob, I'm not asking you to do this.
This is not for the State Department.
It's for me.
It's direct from me to them, and I want you to do it on that basis.
Now, he will do it on that basis.
All right.
Well, I'm going to see you later.
He's an old State Department loyalist, but he's...
I know, I'll tell him.
I'm going to tell him where I'm using the rest, but I've got to...
I'll tell you, we've got to...
I said there's a disagreement at this point.
I've got to know what the old man thinks.
He's in the old tradition that if you give him an instruction, he'll carry it out, no matter what his own views are.
That's...
That Chinese thing, you know, is the funniest damn thing.
I mean, it's a ping-pong team and now three or four new speaker men.
This new speaker thing is tremendously important.
And another thing, I had Ziegler put out this morning, I said, read the President's press conference in December, where he said he ordered the relaxation of trade.
This wasn't an improvised gesture.
He said it in December, he said it again in his world report.
He decided the basic program two weeks ago before this ping-pong team ever got in there.
The timing was slightly affected, I said.
I asked Ziegler to say, and he said they dashed right out of there.
He never got to the rest of his briefing.
The rest is what we vote.
I mean, I must say, I think I vote a lot of it by myself.
Mr. Burt, I have to say,
Well, I supported it strongly.
Well, you did.
No, no, but the initiative, the big plays, I never thought of the Romanian trip.
I wouldn't have tackled that Indian foreign minister the way you did.
Then, once you had the line established, I was enthusiastic before, but... We took him right on.
Tito.
Tito.
I discussed it.
What do you think about the Chinese?
Tell me about it.
You sent three messages through Yaya.
Two through Sagini.
Two, and we got answers to every one of them.
We had two conversations with Cochescu on it.
Cochescu sent one man to, and you remember in December we got a reply from the Chinese through the Romanian.
The big problem that we're going to have to get in there is to get the answer to what the hell I said on BUN on Friday night.
You know what I mean?
That's going to be the story.
Is that on television at the end?
Hell no.
It's not on television.
The nation's editors will be there.
No, because some of the people yesterday were talking already about television.
They said they all think you're going to make mincemeat out of these four guys who are going to question you.
No, no, I don't think we're... Well, this is just right this time.
I just play to the editors, and whatever you may miss me on, if it's irrelevant.
The point is, that question, though, I've got to have a good answer to.
I'll get to it.
And I don't know exactly what to say, except that, well, we're...
I'd say... Just say our position hasn't changed, and I'll announce it.
No, you could say the...
This whole issue.
You could get some of the considerations that go into it.
And all of China policy is under review or something.
Or we set, I stated, I set forth our position.
We stand by our alliance with Taiwan.
I'd say that you can certainly say that we're against the expulsion of Taiwan.
We try not to.
Then we do.
No, no, I would not go over the drink.
I will write something out for recommendation.
But this already is going to shift the whole debate, and it's got to affect our knowledge.
When the Prime Minister of China says this is the beginning of friendship, do you remember?
Yes, but do you remember that message they sent us back through the Romanians where they said the only thing standing between us is Taiwan?
I called it to your attention at the time.
They didn't say Vietnam stands between us.
The Russians know the country or something.
They go to Peking?
I think we may have the option of getting a Mexican ambassador, another ambassador, an envoy to Peking before the year is out.
I see how the Russians cannot come through now.
How can Brezhnev stand there?
What's his move going to be?
If he doesn't do that, he'll have to have a confrontation in the Middle East or somewhere.
One thing that worried me about the Russians was that they thought, might have thought you were so much on the skids, misled by the American press.
I didn't really believe that because you've got too much time left in your term.
But now with our Chinese option, which is bound in my view to take off some domestic heat.
Well, they have to think that you must maybe up to other things.
If that thing suddenly surfaced, what else may surface?
Yeah, but the sophisticates are the ones that have been doing most of the talking.
I don't think this was a public... the public is uneasy.
Now casualties are going to be coming down tomorrow.
It's up to 41, but it's still half of last week.
It's 41 now.
Yeah.
But still it's half of last week.
And then again this week.
That 110 sunshine.
That may be still 41, 45.
It may not be 41 right now.
In a way, it's just as well this week isn't so long.
It's better to have it at 41 than it is to have it at 38, really.
This will make the following week look better.
Actually, if it goes to 47, so it wasn't as bad as going from 38 to probably...
It's going to come down in the end.
I remember Cambodia took about a month before it really began to come down.
Yeah, and I...
They may be, we've got some intelligence that they may start another series of attacks on the 28th.
But any ammunition they shoot up this, at this time, they won't use later in South Vietnam.
They can't do a huge thing.
We had these planning dates before and they haven't made one yet this year.
I've seen it at least four times.
Yes, they've never made it.
Listen, ever since last, first you remember they were going to take on Khe Sanh, right?
Yeah.
And they were going to come across the DMZ, right?
They were mobilizing us.
This all came in from Helms.
Then they were going to do this.
Then there was four different times.
Now they haven't done it yet.
If the Chinese thought you were on the skits, they wouldn't have picked this time.
Before our demonstrations, before our demonstrations, or they'll get out of their minds that the Russians are going to jump them.
Not a possibility.
But still, if they haven't been pretty sure of the reactions,
If we hadn't hunted that carefully, they wouldn't have dared to make that move.
You know, the German, he worries me.
I don't mean he worries me.
He worries me what he says.
He says that they're going to go either right or left.
And I couldn't worry more.
If the Germans, if we...
Yeah, it was a twin thing.
One would be to make a deal.
If they failed to make a deal, they could go in one direction.
If they do make a deal, then they could go in another direction.
Now, and also that was a very perceptive comment where he said, it's very interesting, in Eastern and Moscow and Budapest,
In all the countries, the communist countries, you have intellectuals that are for the communists and the people that are for the communists.
Where you find the people, where you find people that are for the communists are Western or non-communists.
And he pointed out, he said, not the workers.
The elections.
The same goddamn poison there that is here.
What the hell's the matter with the elections in the world?
And these are the party.
This is the party that's on our side.
And we mustn't discourage them.
Well, I think we get them a little better.
Well, you get them a tremendous lift.
And I think we get them a lift.
Well, just to give you the trial leads on this one, which we ran trial leads on this boat.
And the last ones we did were in March, on our ORC boat.
We have a lead now against Muskeg's 4135 with Wallace.
Yeah.
Paul is 14.
41-35-14.
The floor was 40-34-16.
So you each picked up a blank from the loss.
No change in numbers.
Gallup is 43-39-12, which is still basically the same.
Four points straight.
Against Kennedy, it's 43-38-12.
That's 42-38-12.
It was 44-36-14, before it was 44-35-14.
It says that there's no change, really, in the drum beats since March.
So, I have the impression, Thomas, that when we went down, I thought you pulled at the time of the 41-36.
I think you pulled the 41-36 on the bottom.
But even then, I, you just, I think you think of us as gallant trainees that they put out right that weekend.
I think you pulled over 4100 letters, and I think that it was, you showed them the trial needs.
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe it was after Laos.
I'm sure we did things, that was only a one night fold, get it all in one night.
It's interesting though, that the drive-in thing doesn't change any of those... Well, there hasn't been much change in the other year, you know, it's just... Yeah, no, we're there about that.
Well, there's not much change in that, is there?
5534, it's a little number that goes up.
Senator, do you have a reaction to what the president said this weekend?
It's unfavorable under 62, unfavorable 30.
Before, it was 64 to 29.
So basically, no change in the reaction, even though we have more people reporting and more people aware.
Now, this is the reaction of people who were aware, of course.
Of those who were aware, 62% were favorable and 30% unfavorable.
It's as high as, of course, we get on other things.
Well, not as high as we got on Cambodia on May 1st.
Cambodia's speech, could we poll on May 1st and 2nd, the awareness was 69, it's roughly the same.
Favorable was 61, unfavorable 31.
Basically the same.
November 3rd was much higher, I guess that's right.
November, we polled, well we didn't poll right, but we polled November 23rd, three weeks later, and they asked about awareness of speech, and 61 were aware, and unfavorable was 69, unfavorable 25.
That was a different time.
I got that, but it's still not a hell of a lot different.
Five points different.
Basically that 30% just against the damn war.
He was saying that in Cambodia's speech.
All right.
Crossy reported.
First, it was, you know, we polled after that.
Anybody ever heard of that?
No, the awareness was only 36%.
That's surprising.
And favorable was 56%, unfavorable 31%.
I see they didn't really know.
I've been told on something like that.
March press conference.
55, aware.
Favorable, 59.
Unfavorable, 32.
It runs about that way.
60, 30.
At this point, it does.
Yeah, but the favorable's never been a liar in that, except the very third one.
Well, anyway, the main thing is that you've got to remember that there is a catalog of people against.
That's all there is to it, sure.
Well, I think it's encouraging at least that the second wave is, it was, that the press and banking didn't apparently do as much good as the word of mouth.
See, what our, what our second wave had to be word of mouth of, right?
Because the press didn't do as much good afterwards.
The approval of your end in Vietnam went up instantly and stayed there.
But approval of the President didn't go up very much, but then went up a little bit more later.
Went up a little bit, went up.
No, actually went down.
Approval of the President went down a little bit, then approval of Vietnam went up and stayed up.
Approval of, well, even the Cali.
From just before the speech, your approval was 54, just after it was 52, and a little later it went up.
Whereas approval of Vietnam, handling of Vietnam before the speech was 42, right after it was 48, and then, what did I say to 48?
You were saying that maybe what, uh,
and respect for reflecting their antenna in the air.
Bob Dole, I just called.
He said he wants to see you.
Could we do that after?
All right.
The problem is he hoped to see you before the... We can put it off if you want to.
He hoped to see you before the governor said he was going to fight the battle.
Fine.
He'll be gone.
He's only here today, tomorrow.
Part of Friday, I guess, and then he leaves.
Sunfish is really on top of me.
He's going Saturdays in New York or someplace, and Sundays goes on.
Oh, get him in.
Get him in.
All right.
Drive in, and then Mitchell's not here.
No.
I was going to put him off until next week.
Well, no, no, no.
He's going off until next week, too.
Every half hour.
I think we're sort of tied in.
I told him that.
By 5.30 today.
All right.
He said the public attitude is, the feel is, is on the upswing.
He gets up and talking about, he goes, the country, he said, boy, the people just, they really want to get out of the war.
He said, after every speech, they come up and say, gee, can't we get out of this war?
He says, I, that's exactly what we're doing.
That's right.
I know that.
Why don't they say it first?
I just hope that all of our people here know that they don't need to beat that to death.
Yeah.
I mean, when we get McGregor and all the rest of the guys, they want to get out of the war.
Why not?
It's a little unnecessary.
What the hell do you think we're trying to do?
I mean, there's no question in Christ, you know, down to the hills and, you know, get in the music, get out on the train, and I agree with your side.
I believe they know the facts.
I'm sure they want to get out of the war.
They want to possibly do something for the war.
I didn't come in and give you any stuff about the war.
I don't want to hear about that, you know.
I know about that, but, I mean, of course, we're going to do it as fast as we can, and I also, I don't want anybody quoting me on anything.
I appreciate his views on that.
I want to see him talk about the war.
But it's crazy because he hits the water hard to the, on the fact that you are close to the other side and the guys you got to stand there and not go to the carpet.
What about a commonest point though that some of our cabin officers, Arthur Burns made the point, I bet you'd be interested in that, the old partner.
He's so, I'm going to tell you about him, I was fascinated with John when John was here.
I heard calling on three or four occasions.
He said, you know, he's the only member of your cabinet.
He thought he makes a couple of points.
The only member of your cabinet that I've ever heard of.
Then says some good things about the president as a man.
The only one.
And I said to Artie, I said, because he had retired a while ago.
He said, no, he said, I know.
He said, it was their job to talk about what a great job they're doing.
You know.
He said, Artie, he got the message.
Now, he sees that others must get it, too.
And I really think that the cabinet has got to end the message here.
Now, everyone says, and everyone stepped into it very properly, said, Artie.
It isn't because we haven't told them to say something like that.
He says we have.
Thank you.
That's for sure that now they aren't.
And that's the best thing to find out.
We know that some of them are.
I think it's the question of the staff.
for righteous anger, you know, write it down the line.
And, you know, don't just crap around about the other colonies and the second guy.
That's full consciousness.
You know, this goal would be to... What did you run a previous show?
You put out the 51, or 50 to 40.
There's no point, this is not, it should not be rough.
We did it around 52.
That's fine.
We did the 54 showing it up, 51 last time.
That's right.
Just that it's, the letters are equal.
Sometimes in May, we'll do one in our May poll.
May show another.
May show a little bit more.
May show a little better Chinese.
Maybe one of the staffers.
What's your first cut out of yourself?
I don't want them to all get in and start writing a lot of memorandums about that sort of thing.
I don't want them to think that they're...
Remember I told you I don't want the staff thinking about PR and packaging and the rest.
And yet, perhaps their views on this might be worthwhile.
Like so.
Or maybe it isn't.
Maybe we just let it die.
I think it is.
You can't just take colonies if you want to.
Maybe there he was her father.
Maybe you ought to do them individually.
That's what I was just weighing, is whether it's better to just talk to them rather than have a meeting.
I think if you have a meeting, they aren't going to say what they really think.
You know, like the other guy said, I would not.
And it's not like if I could, I wouldn't.
Frankly, I wouldn't bother with Ron Snow.
I don't think he's going to give you anything.
I mean, we should agree that he just believes in going out and taking a cheap shot when you can, right?
He really does.
He's a great guy, so go grab a pic, grab a story.
I don't think he's got very much.
Well, get a reading from him and just see what we do.
Finch, can he help you?
Yeah, pretty good at this.
Lion?
No, not really.
Sapphire?
Yes.
Moor?
Yes, definitely.
Spryce?
Yes, Spryce.
Right.
Herb?
Herb, that's all.
And Kissinger, I mean, you ought to get Kissinger, not because he got such good PR, but Kissinger is one who's such a purist with regard to every answer's got to be perfectly tailored, you see?
And Buchanan isn't worth doing.
None of those.
There are two.
There, my man is, we know what their needs are, and he'd get up and keep involved every time.
Sir, I'm doing it, and it's spent Friday night, where you're not on television.
But what really do you do when you come down to the bottom?
Whether on television or not, you gotta remember that that's what a lot of us forget, that every time you utter a word, you're making national policy go in.
And you just can't be out there, you know, showing temper or anger or frustration or any tempered statements.
and come back to haunt you, you see what I mean?
On the other hand, if the impression, the impression of, we had the impression, you remember from your, the hell of a memorandum that we had, that the conversations at least did convey war and all that sort of thing, right?
Or do they, I don't know.
Yeah, I think that's a general reaction, yeah.
They do.
A speech does not.
A press conference does not, apparently.
Well, a speech does not accept it.
It depends on how you do it.
I think this...
But we can't have a government like this.
We can do it.
You can't have a government like this every week.
And you don't want to get in the habit of doing that.
Sure, this is effective.
But take a press conference.
I think a press conference has to be an orderly...
I mean, it has to be a goddamn well-kept performance, you know.
I mean, just...
I don't think that can be changed.
Unless...
opportunity on something where you, of course you do, you've worked a lot, you've worked some humoring and some quick stuff and some long, thoughtful stuff.
He came on in a gently, meddled way, and said, look, you fellas all wrote this and that.
It was a pretty, pretty, pretty warm exchange, you know what I mean?
Yeah, they had it.
The point is, what I think both Connolly and the other fellow reporters are thinking about is that in the press conference, we'll take that authority, that in the press conference and the conversations, that it just doesn't come true.
It's just a war.
Concern, basically, right?
It's more of just an orderly, cool, efficient performer, right?
Yeah, maybe it's to an extent what you say in some of the questions rather than how you say it, too.
I mean, there'd be, to the just, you know, mystery of what's going on.
I'm deeply concerned about that.
I really care.
Maybe throw your anecdote in there once in a while.
Let's hang them a little away this morning.
We don't have any suggestions.
No.
No.
And it's hard to use that opportunity.
It bogs you down to start doing that.
But maybe that's what he's arguing for.
Good.
Did you get your conversation with Flissigar off?
Well, they've been so busy out there this morning.
I knew it this afternoon.
This time, that's why I wanted to report to you on that.
I wanted to ask you about that.
They're interested in the story.
Well, it's both the banner headline story.
It's going to be.
I think the banner headline is going to be the lead story, of course.
It's a big story in Harvard.
I'll tell you, I think it's happening.
I'll create more interest.
Of course, the point I made was I said you had made, I went back to your initiatives from the very beginning and went through those going back to 1969 and based this as the others.
But go back also, if you would, to my report.
Please, gentlemen, read again my foreign affairs article before I was president in 1967.
That's a good point.
I didn't refer to that.
I referred to the foreign policy messages in your statement in your December press conference.
and indicated that you were basically made with...
They picked that up from what you said, I'm hearing.
Children in line, they challenge.
Right.
Just say that there is a ping-pong table in your house.
In the stairs there?
You don't have them here, do you?
Camp David, there's a ping-pong table.
Yeah, there's a ping-pong table in Camp David.
Don't say I played there, because I never have.
I played a lot of ping-pong games.
Oh, I got something for you that's a very amusing little anecdote, if you want to go and find something.
I went over a bowl last night for the first time in a month, and my great amazement, I had seven, I had to score a bowl myself, I bowled seven straight games, averaged 165, which is pretty high, that's pretty heavy.
But I had one game, averaged 165, but I had one game of 229.
What did you really, which is my record, including seven strikes,
I had four in a row, the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth row, four in a row, and I finished with three strikes at the end.
I'd say the president feels pretty happy today about his own ad-fighting achievement.
He bowled by himself.
He would be the only specter.
Mr. Taylor was there.
Manolo and the three dogs were all there.
They were walking around the grounds and they were all, this was late at night, they were all there watching.
I had one game of 1-0-6, which maybe I haven't shown, but all the others.
Was that your first game?
No, the second one.
It was 150, then I had a 1-0-6, and then followed the 1-0-6 with a 2-29.
That was the third game.
Third game.
Well, the part that came back, came back, and the headers were all 160.
See, the 229 pulled in there.
The 229 is a... All bowlers will know that.
I know, I've pulled, and I've never bowled a 165 in my life, but if I get a 150, I'm happy.
Well, going over 200 is...
The way I bowl, I say...
Going over 200 is...
Very.
Oh, sure.
You have to get, you have to mark every time.
I marked every time in that game, of course.
I needed a striker to spare.
Seven strikes, not a chance.
The last three I did, I had two, I had four in a row, and then one brace of two in a row, and one simple.
uh, strike, follow by a spare.
That's how you do it.
That's right.
I've had, uh, that's the, I've had a half a dozen games over two minutes.
Now that's about seven.
This is your highest, huh?
This is the highest.
The highest I had before was 219.
My highest, my previous game was 219.
Hold on.
It'll be almost impossible, unless I play it regularly, to ever go above that.
That's, you gotta be awfully good to go above that, you know what I mean?
to throw those strikes in there.
Four strikes in a row is something out there.
The champions, they bowl.
I've seen many of those guys in 300 games you talk about.
They're a hang-up.
Oh, hell no.
They usually bowl, the champions bowl, they'll bowl 240, 250, right?
230.
Right in there.
Yes, sir.
They, of course, wanted to tie it to the ping-pong thing, but I referred to your previous initiatives and said you had made this decision basically in California, which I think is pretty close.
And that we would have made...
long ago even before that started the process.
And this is just part of a series of steps that we are taking for trade and travel.
Right.
I mean, I tied it into that whole series, but I said that this recent set of initiatives has been under discussion going all the way back to December as a part of the ongoing rebate letter.
But I said you finally decided on this particular set of initiatives in California.
That's what Henry indicated.
This move today.
This move today.
So it did, so it does not, this announcement would have been made to whether or not the American.
That's right, that's right.
I said the fact that, the fact that the American tennis team, the table tennis team was in Congress County today makes this an appropriate day to make this announcement.
But they're not related to it.
They ran out of there, though.
This is one of the biggest stories that I think they've had.
Of course, it's been in the news.
They will raise their expectations.
They must not get them too high.
You can tell them for guidance or immediate actions in terms of, say, what about the U.N.?
What about their recognition?
What about an envoy and so forth?
Now, for your information, something may happen.
which you never could tell.
So right now, she's down in question.
Well, I did.
I mean, I didn't overplay it.
As a matter of fact, I was asked a relation question, and I said, that's way down the road.
That's not a live question at this time.
These are initiatives that the president has taken.
Right.
Referred to that in red for me.
That's good.
Okay, could I raise two other items while I'm here?
In the meeting with Christian yesterday, we looked at that film.
My God, have you seen that weapons film of the Johnson?
I watched the wedding.
I haven't seen the film.
You should see that film they put together.
To say the least, it's a little bit extreme.
At every dollar and at every party, and I would look for these things in a picture, you'd walk in the door and there's a little mic sticking up there.
Picking up everything they say.
You know, they just had the Navy film crew there everywhere they went.
In looking at that film yesterday, however, I think you could do a little more of that.
a little more native film photography?
Because some of the things that President Johnson, and it's great mood things for history.
For example, a couple of things where it has the president, President Johnson, walking out of a room, out of a meeting, where the president isn't aware that there's a film on it and it's under our control.
It's a great human...
real historic moments can be captured in some of that.
And I think this is something we should talk about.
I'm not saying having a film following you around everywhere, but on some occasions I think we should get some of that.
Johnson went to... Johnson went to the other... We always have our film crew.
You might have them around in some other events.
One thing I regret very much we didn't do yesterday because it will be an initiative that I didn't have all day and shoot that cabinet meeting.
The congressman at the cabinet meeting just did quite a good job.
we really should run on the end and shoot again here everything that happened i know but i thought he'd stay in there all the stuff but i don't want him in here but he should have got that stage and say this should have come in get a shot and get out johnson would have the guy stay forever let him get a picture and then get out
That's the point, incidentally, that Frank Leonard made.
He said one of the things that this administration does wrong in its PR, that we consistently do wrong, is that we are totally word-oriented.
And then we, everything that we do, everything we try to have, we do it by telling, saying something, or even statements.
He said, you gotta go back to the Chinese proper, you know, that's the picture that counts.
And you just don't get enough pictures.
And he said, the key to that is not letting the press in for pictures, but is having all of them do it so you do have control, so that you don't worry about getting a bad picture.
that you do completely let down and let him get all pictures instead of just seven pictures.
And then Ali, of course, is superb.
And then he goes back to the point.
He said Caracas was a great event and would have been a great event no matter what happened.
But what really made it a spectacular and unforgettable thing was Ali Akin's picture.
He got up to the front and got the smashed car and the, you know, all the stuff.
And that, nobody will ever forget.
Now, they can talk all they want.
If they hadn't had the pictures to that, nobody would have ever understood.
the feeling that they did by looking at the picture.
He says all the evidence was there.
I don't think he was.
I think actually it was, I think it was the either cancel area or, I thought it was the other guy, you know, or like, no, the big, Hank, well, whoever it was, they had the evidence.
It was an accurate picture.
There was a picture out here yesterday, wasn't there?
They moved it on the wire.
It didn't move.
It wasn't a picture.
But those pictures show up.
In other words, maybe too much.
They ought to use more of these pictures.
I had a picture of that.
That's absolutely right.
You saw those?
Yeah.
The thing that led me to
to bring this up.
In the discussion, Tricia indicated that there was a possibility of doing a look cover with Ed.
Yes.
Well, they're not only in the looker, but I want you to look at all the questions.
She doesn't play his own drum.
I will do a look.
I will not do live.
Definitely not live.
No, that's right.
We're either going to do one or the other.
This time we'll do a look.
Right.
There had been discussion about a cover picture of you with Tricia, but Tricia indicated yesterday that she may be able to get Ed to do that cover.
Which I think would probably be...
This is before or after the wedding?
This is June.
Before the wedding?
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
Well, there was a time.
June.
Well, I don't know.
There's not one with me, but... We have a jillion pictures of Trish and Eddie after the wedding.
Over the wedding.
If we have a man in her, then it should be a far-off picture.
We're having editorial control.
I don't know who's writing.
Well, I've got to talk them up today.
I haven't because I've been on that Chinese thing.
But I wanted to raise this with you because this is a question we would like to resolve.
Should it be Trish and the President or should it be Trish and Ed?
See, this would be the only pre-wedding picture
Well, you know, in the cover, at least.
Well, my argument would be Trish and the President, because I don't recall, and I may be wrong, a really good Trish and the President for a picture with any major, that's got any major circulation.
There was the family shot of the engagement announcement, and there was the Trish and Ed shot.
And there will, of course, be the Trish and Ed shot.
There will be a picture of you and Trish at the wedding, too, as you're taking photos.
That's right.
But there's a picture of the wedding portrait, which is of the couple.
Yeah.
It's a pre-wedding picture, it seems to me, the father and the... Well, I can see what the mother wants.
Okay.
What good does it do us to have... Let's get a cold, large standpoint.
From our standpoint, what the hell good does it do us to get a picture of Ed and Thomas?
Getting a picture in Pleasant Bay might not be a bad idea.
Don't we get it?
Yeah, let's do that.
You know, this is good.
Pleasant Bay.
mrs nixon sort of was pushing trisha together in the meeting between ed and but i that's why i raised it you know what you do what you did on that now what about television television yes we did and we're we're going to no no there are any i was thinking that what about television interviews and all that now i want this control it will be and we're working on i don't want very used on on uh on
macro media or some goddamn hip-sleeve thing.
I mean, if she's, if somebody wants her for prime time, maybe, I don't know.
If it's worth it, I'm not sure she should.
But I'm just saying, I don't want them to piss it away, Ron.
Right.
Right, Bob?
Don't you agree?
Sure.
These are controllers.
Now, if there ain't any other magazine, is there anything we need to do for our old friends at Reader's Digest?
Now, that's what they call a Reader's Digest thing.
They don't run a picture.
No, they don't use much art.
All right, so that's, uh,
But we're coming up with a whole list.
There's brides and magazines and so forth.
Right.
On the gowns.
Oh, it's not coming.
Play the gowns.
That won't happen.
Because the women eat that stuff up.
Run the women's stage thing and so forth.
All that right up to the hill.
But do you have control of anything else?
Yes, I talked to Connie yesterday.
I said that we should coordinate.
I hear what I want to do.
I told her last night.
I want every person in the press to receive a piece of the wedding cake.
So they'll make up a huge cage and give them a piece of the wedding cake.
And I'll bear that pressure and be sure they get champagne.
Well, I thought we'd close this down out here and we'd put up a very nice setup down there.
Do it very nicely.
You know, within a tent and the filing facilities and everything, which would be down here.
That's right.
Which would keep them, you know...
generally in this area.
And I think they'd be satisfied, because they could come in the gate down there and not go in the entrance.
Well, they'll have a good party.
And I just said it all over the tennis court.
It's an excellent idea, but if they attend it, they're going to be out all the way.
I want to be served before the press are briefed.
I don't want them pushed away if I said I want to be treated kindly.
Everybody get a feeling of goodness and good relations.
I don't want Connie to be crude or brassy or mean to these people, you understand?
Do you just handle that?
But Helen Smith, who's he?
Helen Smith's very good.
She's all right.
Then let her do a little more.
You see what I mean?
Because I know how tough it is, and I know that there's a bunch of pitches, but I just bought this one and handled it with a little more grace than what was happening.
That was pretty bad.
You know what I mean?
We know you've got to say no to them, but you don't have to make them unnecessarily feel it.
They're not wanted.
You're pushing them away.
God damn, you get out of the way, and so forth.
Give them every opportunity to move in and out, and so forth, and so on.
And it can be done with great discretion, and so forth.
Matter of the weather.
I should do a weather check.
to start the weather check to see what kind of day it is.
Four o'clock.
Four o'clock.
It'll be all right from the stand-by.
I think the afternoon will be better.
Well, it's pretty good if you know what the morning will be when it rains in the afternoon here.
Don't mind the people.
Of course, it'll be like this four o'clock.
It's really three o'clock today.
It's two o'clock later.
It will be full.
It will be right in the middle of the day.
Good morning.
I want to raise one final question on the ASME for Friday night.
We've taken a look at that.
They can have one camera, do it with one camera, without blocking any tables, all the way at the back of the room, something you wouldn't really notice.
Now, they have requested, the networks, that we allow that camera, instead of being a film camera, to be an electronic camera.
Really no difference.
well I checked the light because of the distance that we have to put it the lighting difference would not be appreciably higher than with the film because of the long throw and you have to do the long throw you have to light the way we're going to have to light because of the long throw and that's another thing I wanted to raise the heat from the lights will be about
what you're accustomed to in a speech that's being televised.
The air-conditioned people say that they can, you know, get us down and so forth.
Well, but there will be some intensity from the lights.
I'm going to try and lock the whole room.
No, no, just like the president.
He has to be lit anyway in terms of, you know, when you're speaking, put a spot on him.
But there would be some... Well, why don't we not have it?
Yeah, we would have it.
I think we should have it.
I do.
All right.
Go ahead.
The electronic cameras start and do what you need them to do.
I understand.
Do what you need them to do.
I understand.
Okay.
But we will use the electronic cameras, so they...
Right.
It's just for the matter of facilitating the 11 o'clock mission.
It will not be locked.
It's right.
The agreement is for them to sell us a tape, then.
They'll give us a tape if we want it.
Give us a tape.
We should have the record tape.
Yeah.
I think the wedding thing is going to be a very nice story.
I do too.
A lot of it is the mood that's created, and I want everybody to be up, plus trying to be cooperative.
You're so right.
That's right.
If a negative mood permeates the press, then to put a negative tone on it.
Don't be hurried.
Don't be.
You've got to have these stories out your home.
Give it every little chance that you can, and that's the thing I want.
Chris is concerned, and I told him yesterday we could do it without any...
intrusion of the cameras on the ceremony itself.
And there are so many opportunities out there, it's unbelievable.
You know, in terms of putting the cameras up high and short.
She wants the wedding to be a private wedding that we can, as I told her yesterday, it'll be a private wedding with no audio.
And just get the picture, the scene, while it's going on.
And then that scene could be piped down to the press tent.
And they'd have a feeling that they're seeing it going on.
Well, we'd have to have maybe five coolers in here.
But we wouldn't have a clutter press around.
We would have all of the cameras, and we'd make it up nice.
You know, there's no pillars and so forth.
So it looks nice as it should.
And they painted cables green and everything.
For the picture coming down the steps, because that would be the classic.
both when the president comes down with Tricia, and we'd have the driveway all fixed up, and then going back up.
Full work on that.
They really moved me fantastically with that, and much better than the inside, because it will be, well, it's different.
That's it.
Coming down steps, the white-off steps look like any other steps inside, you know, that's zero.
There they are.
It's her.
It's her whole idea, too.
That's the other thing.
She got her idea down at the Rose Garden.
She thought up the whole thing.
She wants to have the Rose Garden on the outside all the time of the year.
If either of them work, they ought to film it and run a half-hour special that night.
Well, they won't do that.
They'll run and die.
They'll put me on it.
They won't run on it.
They won't.
I thought it was.
No, that's what we're not allowing.
No, Dan, I think we've allowed the ceremony.
Nothing's to be lied.
Nothing is to be lied.
Everything is special.
Well, all right.
It wouldn't be taken from them.
It wouldn't be taken from them.
But a network really ought to take the, if you give them enough, it seems to me that they've got a hell of a show to run that night.
And it's better than anything else they have, don't you think?
I think they'll do that.
That's the interesting thing.
Well, Saturday night would be a nice thing to run.
They can wrap the day.
So far, the cutting of the cake, the formal picture.
They're better off not to carry it live, because they can come at us in a way that's not exciting.
Man equal time.
They're going to put all the candidates on now.
I don't think they'd love this yet.
All of a sudden.
I know I kind of forgot, but I'd like to see all the candidates.
All of a sudden.
I just hope, pray to God that it's... Wouldn't I just love to see them all stacked up there talking about the Vietnam folks?
Just get themselves right out there.
I think some of your boys would be with them.
worried about their, I mean, they're not critics, but what the hell are they going to smuggle out now?
Package?
They could run it, that's for sure.
Are they six?
Are they six?
No, they're having a hell of a time.
I mean, they've got to know that they're right, actually, to run that, don't they?
They don't have to be quite as good as they think.
What do you think?
Well, I don't think there's a problem.
They stop.
The station is.
They lay down.
And they try to stop a little traffic or cut off some power.
That's just great.
Right?
And that's got to be the end of it.
It must be.
Of course, it's probably smart not to do it.
I don't think so.
I get frustrated, especially if the April Plain Portland does the same work that I have to do.
He said, no, but not around this town.
He said, I see all these tourists.
He said, there are a lot of good, clean American people walking around with cameras.
He said, they take no use to me.
He said, what?
He said, there's no feeling of crisis out there.
He said, you know, all of that, he said, is absorbing the feeling of dissent of the war.
Well, this is what we were talking about.
He's the cherry blossom.
That's right.
He's the cherry blossom.
They waited a little late.
The weather gets warm.
They should have run it in March.
That's about it.
That's a month.
It's sort of a fleeting month.
Everybody's mad.
But now the spring, and they come back, and the flowers, and the kids are out, and so forth and so on.
They're going to raise a little help, so what the hell.
Okay.
Bye.
There's only one way now.
I don't want to get into it with him.
I don't want him to feel that he should come in and give me advice about how to conduct foreign policy or something like that.
I don't think there's any question about the national channel.
He hasn't.
He likes to tell you how he's summing your costs.
That's a great thing.
I'll give you some lines and so forth.
But what I meant is, he's basically the national chairman and so forth.
And I know what the people feel about the war.
I just simply tell them, incidentally, I think I'm giving you a quote.
Give him 55 before he comes in.
And the end of the war.
Thank you.
Is the hand of the war foal run yet?
Mm-hmm.
When were we going to run this?
We weren't.
Oh, we got to run that.
Did you think so?
In comparison between the hand of the war foal before and after.
We're going to run that now.
And the war thing didn't come after Cali.
It came after the speech, didn't it?
It was really down to Cali in the 32.
No, but even after the Cali, it went up to the 42, it went up to the 42, it went up to the 90s, but then, but it didn't go to the positive.
That's right, it was still negative.
It was 42, 46, and then it went positive, 48, 40.
What you could do is take the 32 and get it up to 48.
See my point?
That's a very important part.
I thought you were going to bring that some place.
Why don't you talk to Ben and see what he thinks.
It's on the handling of the war.
I think we could go back to the same March Bowl.
See the handling of the war question coming before this riot would be very good.
March Bowl was 41-47.
Changed to 48-40.
No, but I, I would prefer to take the county poll.
You think it's too far?
Too much historian?
I hate to put you down in that level.
All right, fine.
I don't think you really were in our state.
All right, then say 41-47 in March.
That's a hell of a number.
48-40.
48-49.
Flip over.
Fine.
This is 6.5.
This is 6.5.
This is 6.5.
I think that should go on, and then also the business about the communist takeover.
Thank you.
Yeah, in the view, look.
There's something on the water.
That's a very, they all, they'll run those holes.
Let's get that in there.
There's the books.