Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Paul McCloskey and Vietnam War

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Just so it's good.

You're actually ordering them to promote it here.

Oh, yes.

I ordered it.

I don't think it's good.

That's my personal opinion.

Well, then don't do it.

Oh, I see.

I thought I was going to help him.

Well, I'll help him.

You change it then.

Change it in the way that the main thing is.

I just want to order those things to be promoted.

I'm not going to screw around here.

I'm going to help him.

But if you think that's occurred, I don't know.

I just don't think so.

It's a long time.

I just like to rephrase it.

I think he is deserving of the highest merit of the best.

You rephrase it now any way you want.

Just rephrase it and have Roe sign it, it's okay.

Is that all right?

I don't feel it

One thing I will, but you know, maybe after I've been in the speech for a few weeks or two days, I don't think it's going to be a good picture of ours.

Okay, sir.

I don't want to bother you.

It's not a good time to take pictures.

As a matter of fact, you have to shake hands with 300 people anyway.

You're tired now.

So forth and so forth.

Someday I'll get my food.

I don't know.

Have you seen the McCullochs?

They never started?

No.

This is the best thing that's ever been done on her.

And it's almost too good.

It's so good.

And the pictures are just unbelievable, Fred, our own pictures.

And the cover, I saw the cover with you and Pat sitting on the, you didn't go see it?

Oh, yeah.

But better is one, it's a double spread inside of a picture of you walking, the two of you walking down the beach in San Clemente.

It's a great blue shot.

It's a foggy, windy...

Wendy's actually had that scar on her head and everything, but there's, and it ties into some text that, you know, you used to walk those beaches and that you proposed to her at Dana Point Oldsmobile.

That's true.

And there's a great picture of her with Trish putting on a necklace or helping her get her dress buttoned or something, you know, and a great picture of her with Julie sitting

by the bed time, helping Julie with her mail or something.

And I drew a good picture with Lucy and John Ficklin, the people who wrote it.

It's just Martin Ficklin, a letter to the publisher, you know, or to the editor, to the editor.

Along the lines of, I don't care what they write about me, I am so pleased from the writing section.

There's a lot that's pretty well-conserved.

Hey, Bob, it's just not that cold for that boat today.

Not today, so I don't know.

It's a little bit cold today.

Yeah, I've been back.

I've got to find, uh, ways to make sure some of this doesn't happen to me.

I have this in mind.

It's the old Johnson thing in person.

And, uh, everybody else is changing.

Every time, I've got to find ways to get off.

Of course, they weren't prepared for that thing like that.

I shouldn't do that once a month.

It's just worth that much effort, you know.

I mean, hell of a lot of effort.

It just isn't worth going through it.

I mean, it's a hell of a disability.

It's two days of work.

A lot of them are doing two days of hard work.

Goddamn hard work.

I don't think it's worth doing more than once a month and doing it on top of it.

Right?

Maybe that's what we're going to do.

I mean, let's deal with it a little more often.

Maybe we'll find another, because your idea of another event, which all of us are together, and we're going to make, is that one of the winners and the last winner.

It's going to be pretty rugged, isn't it?

Well, you see what I meant?

It's going to be a telly, and I need to go out and do it better.

There's just a change of scene.

I want to go home, actually, and I want to work for it, and I enjoy it.

I suppose what I really ought to do, I just can't hardly bring myself to do it, but I ought to consider to maybe touch up to a perfect man in the ass.

You know, and I have to tell people I won't play with them.

That's what I'll admit to.

No, but Ice and I didn't have that problem.

Nobody would dare ask him, you know.

And you know, if he'd say, well, you go to hell, he wouldn't say that, but he didn't say that.

He'd sell you a little cabbage, you know, and they'd all play.

I think it's good to have a cabinet officer in one day when he isn't pushing Bob.

See my point?

See, we've done Hutch.

And my goodness, I've certainly done his hands up for him.

I've been to everything that he's asked and he's at the meeting today and he's happy.

Hutch has been done hard work.

I think he's pretty well done.

Or does he want something else?

I don't think he does.

And we'll be doing some agriculture stuff, which I'm not going to be proud to say.

Richardson is not important to me in any way.

I don't need to do it.

What the hell else you got?

I don't know if you can hear it.

But it's really Romney and Bowlby that are now out.

Oh, Morton.

Morton should be getting into it sometime.

Yeah.

Fair enough.

The message will get across.

Because we know that bull people take more than half an hour.

I'd like to have the three of them in at half hour each.

In other words, 11, 11.30, 12.30 on the schedule.

Fair enough.

They will help me on this work.

I'm stacking up my bull targets.

Have Opie last seen?

No.

First.

Opie first, and then there's... Opie knows it's a half-heart.

He couldn't tell me.

He could say, yes, it's a half-heart.

I don't know.

He isn't that bad, is he?

Yes, yes, he is, isn't he?

He really is.

I mean, the fact that he, that everything he did was so wise.

Everything he did was wise.

Everything, you know.

Everything.

I'd like to invite Bromley in.

Bromley's been good.

Even though he hadn't been in here for seven minutes.

Is that Bogey?

Bogey, Bromley.

Or maybe put Roe and Bogey in the middle.

That officer goes up and he comes in.

I think that's best.

Bromley first, Bogey second.

And Morton third.

Okay.

I did three of John's.

Boy, isn't that, you know what I mean?

That was harder than hard.

We're going to do quite well with the events.

4-H Society and the Culture Editors and all those events like that, when I go to the money, I'm pouring right over it.

Yeah.

If I go out to the 4-H, oh, if we're trying to do it here and here, I'm fine.

I'd rather have it here.

More problems.

As much as we saw things about going on, they just love to be in the White House.

Oh, yeah.

It's not that small in the country, but more so in the areas of the White House.

And then we'll be able to come to them.

And you're thinking about the...

This guy is very important, as I said, is that you're not feel tired and that you're not look tired in this position.

People watch that and they know that.

And so that really did, so many of the others I've taken to some presidents through the years, got to age awful fast.

Yeah.

Got Wilson, you know, just became all weathered because Roosevelt and Kennedy, the young guy, Kennedy did.

Yes, he did.

You're right.

So I guess it was his disease business, but he got, you know, all puffed up.

Yeah.

Eisenharder didn't much, because he just, he came in an old man.

He was only to begin with, and he was so behind the order.

He really didn't.

Until he really got sick, he never did look like old Johnson, though.

Johnson did.

He just aged tremendously.

Didn't he?

Yeah, very.

And fat, and slowed down, you know, and just...

I have one great advantage is that over Johnson and most of the others is that I am more disciplined on my weight and allow it to change.

Yeah.

But on the other hand, the wear and tear is going to show on me just as sure as hell.

Unless we be sure that we got something.

That's going to be time.

You've got to do it period all the time.

Because you can't wait until you get tired and look tired and then go rest.

Because then you don't rest very well for a long time.

But he's not the goddamn golf.

I'm afraid it'll irritate me too much.

I don't know whether it does any good or not.

It's basically, for a while there, like out in California, it was something to do.

It's a way to waste four hours.

After that period of time, to do a little, to get some fresh air and sun and

I didn't concentrate on something else.

I'm gonna have to re-link that sheet.

Yeah.

3-5-20.

It should be the most good in a few days.

A few days.

A few days is good for a...

I should have always been trying to get enough to go out there this afternoon.

I did it all over.

I was asking about what the boat plan was.

Well, she's out to a wedding now, so I'll call her at 2 o'clock, but...

What is today, the 23rd, 2017?

17.

What is it for tomorrow?

17.

I put that international committee on the Red Cross, and they should have me scoff at it.

Hold on.

That's the president.

You talking about on Monday?

Tuesday.

I think it's going to be Monday.

Marceau, that's the P.O.W.

thing.

He is meeting with the P.O.W.

wives.

And then this is going to be a meeting with Rogers.

And you're seeing him, he's here just for a day or something, two days.

You're setting the Rogers meeting up for Monday, are you?

No, the Rogers meeting is going to be Tuesday.

Rodgers agreed to do it.

He's trying to go right another Rodgers agreement.

I'm sure, well, he's got to.

This has been everybody's help.

This is, they've got the plan worked out.

The Y is good.

But the, see the, the interaction right across, we are working through this.

I just didn't feel any involvement.

I don't, I'm only doing it for the PMWY game.

I wouldn't play that game.

Yeah, you don't know why I don't know whether they care.

It doesn't give them any early vote.

That's right.

If they say so, I got to keep

Because the main thing was it tells the enemy that in no uncertain terms, by God, we're going to do, we're going to stay right there.

And also by throwing out something there, as you noticed, we're going to bomb.

Which we damn well will.

If we withdraw and they haven't returned the thing, we'll bomb the hell out of our gate now.

Get my point?

Just bomb it.

We'll get Jesus out of it.

We're going to do it.

Well, I don't know.

You had a good point last night that hasn't come through, at least that I picked up, that is one we ought to get people to expand on, too, which is in all this babbling about the civilians and refugees, which is the whole point you made of how many of these people were killed, 50,000, and silent lives.

And what would happen if we weren't killing VCs who are the aggressors in this, or North Vietnamese?

What would they be doing to the South Vietnamese who are just sitting ducks?

And now, Jesus Christ, this last time.

That has been played back.

We talked about it a couple years ago.

They won't use it.

to approve, but I was able to personalize it.

I was in Anaheim and I was there in the refugee camps.

What's going to happen to these people?

It's not any capital.

I don't know if you feel it, but you hit right at McCloskey's point on that, which can help to knock the props, take enough props out of the budget for tomorrow's TV.

It's the president who's having lunch.

I'm sorry, next question.

And McCroskey was in there.

He was determined to make an incident.

They were determined not to let him.

And he finally got away.

And he asked for some obscure survey that they didn't know they had.

They had to search the files for it.

And he waited until he had the press there and was ready to get on a helicopter to go look at a refugee camp or something.

And then demanded these papers that he had asked for earlier.

And the guy had to go back into town and get them and bring them out to him.

And he refused to go on his trip.

Then he stamped his foot and apparently had a huge temper tantrum and all that stuff.

Purposely lying to him and debating, you know, just psycho, psychotic type of activity.

And everybody says, that's what some call him a noose.

Somebody says, McCloskey's such an awful nice guy.

Yeah, he's an awful nice guy.

He was so bad that Ernie Walde, Ernie's very mental, but he's a nice guy.

He's kind of a genius, isn't he?

Yeah, I think so.

His report, which I think it has to be, it's from the ambassador and confirmed by the DCM and there was press present that, uh,

And the ambassador said, even Jerry Wally was so embarrassed by all this that he came back alone to the embassy.

They had been staying at the embassy, as the ambassador had guessed.

And they moved out, crossed the unmanned and moved to the hotel.

Wouldn't stay with the ambassador, wouldn't come back over for dinner the next night or to have a drink or anything, which they hadn't set up for him.

But Wally came over from the hotel and said he was sorry about all this, that he didn't really, that they thought they'd been treated extremely well, and apologized and said,

I don't want to get in that position, right?

We should, but we pulled some others to take care of it.

jerry may shoot ahead depending on what he does tomorrow jerry may shoot it down on others on the back some of this background what we do is have him call that he's going to make an issue out of his godly business have him have jerry call the ambassador

He's got the report, so you can read the report, and then it's just a staging to call many judges as well.

I don't think we're going to avoid it.

You don't?

Somebody's got to wrap him.

I don't think he's going to take his own attention.

Because the press is going to get it, right?

Yeah.

Now, if he doesn't, then we will let him out if they don't pick him up, but they will.

It's too much fun.

See, they're just ecstatic.

It looks like the old McCarthy bring Johnson down.

This is McCloskey bringing Nixon down.

You know, how can the press be so goddamn stupid to equate those two?

McCloskey is in the wrong party.

Do you know what I mean?

If he's going to bring me down, he should be working the conservatives.

The liberals will never bring down our Republican Party.

Yeah.

See my point?

Yeah.

He's in the wrong.

You see what I mean?

And he's explaining, no, he's not in the party.

Yeah, he is.

He'd be a right-winger.

A right-winger would be a real danger.

But not a left-winger.

Right-winger's a real danger in the party.

That's the point.

Well, he's...

It's just of no significance, except the significance they made the press, the Texas, to make it feel as though it was the press.

Like what?

When they're all going to...

So this weekend will be a rough weekend on TV, because they...

I see on one thing the Vietnam veterans against the war, and then the stickers on another one.

And somebody else on another one.

Yeah.

And...

It isn't an English study.

This week is all going to be kind of a mishmash, starting tomorrow and through the whole week up to the demonstration on Saturday.

It's going to be as much play as they can.

My point is this.

Don't give him any goddamn attention down here.

I think Ziegler should just rush him off without any ever coming out.

I don't think Ziegler should count on him on the costume.

Don't you agree?

Absolutely.

Why not shoot him completely?

Why doesn't we're ready to get him around?

He has.

Try to work in there, work it some more.

I'm trying to get some of the left of the Republican Party to take him on.

A lot of...

I'm trying to reason with them or anything else.

It's really just like regal engineering.

They're both young people.

You see what I mean?

That's their job.

Your point is that he will.

I don't think he just want him to ride free taking on the president.

Someone's got to defend the president.

Someone's got to defend our president.

Someone's got to demolish McCluskey.

I mean, he is demolishing.

He staged a phony operation over there to try and discredit the American efforts, the American war efforts.

What his case was, he's trying to prove that the refugees in Laos, there are all these refugee camps around, that all these people are refugees because of U.S. bombing.

And the point that our government position is that they're refugees, yes, partly because of the bombing, but primarily because there's North Vietnamese with guns and terrorists.

outside their village, and they've left because of enemy communists that attacked them.

Now, the bombing is bombing the communists, not bombing the Laotians.

We don't bomb Laotian villages in order to kill Laotians.

We bomb Laotian countryside in order to kill communists, nor the enemy's communists, who have invaded Laotia.

And he doesn't see it that way, hardly.

And he's really driven the communists away.

Sure, he's trying to prove another.

The other side of it.

Yeah.

And that's why it should be done by the Congress, as one of his colleagues should do it.

And it seems to me, in this case, if the leader will do it, it will be in charge of making more play out of it.

Thank you.

Oh, yeah.

Thank you.

Get him out of here!

Thank you.

I hope so thank you for that

That's it.

I don't have some practice here.

These guys have just completed our phase.

This is something they never recommended.

They were in the afternoon.

ADNs be confined to the two cannons.

Now it so happens that the ADNs that protect Moscow will also protect those new missiles and this.

But the proposal that Smith is pushing is the following.

We will have to tear down the only thing we're building with the right to build something.

The targets are never appropriate and we're a Washington defense.

And they can continue to keep what they already have.

This defense, 500 of their missiles, plus

But we can't get up until after post.

That's what we are.

We are not too far from habitat.

of the very strong nation of man, that's right.

Yeah, so.

We can oppose the source agreement we are now discussing.

Therefore, this is one that you both mean at the end, sir.

But at this stage, we've got to defuse.

We've got to break the back of this generation of democratic leaders.

That's right.

That's why it's not necessarily good for all of them, for instance.

Oh no, we couldn't control it.

We had to do it.

I would guess that 70% of those were caused by the coming of the bandit.

Meaning we also are not fleeing from our family, we are fleeing from the bandits.

We have known that MacLachlan, the son of a bitch, had said, point A, there were three camps in which there were teams.

I'm just going to go out and set this.

They're going to send us a casualty, sir.

That was a big victory, sir.

But it took a long time before they didn't have the big time.

Oh yeah, they're not giving up.

We need 1,500 enemy kills.

Tennis explodes, flying and all the rest of it.

Sir, the gun's deadly.

By that time, the summit will be approaching.

Thank you.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Paul McCloskey and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 17, 1971

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