Conversation 482-010

TapeTape 482StartMonday, April 19, 1971 at 9:58 AMEndMonday, April 19, 1971 at 10:13 AMTape start time01:11:40Tape end time01:30:53ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOval Office

On April 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:58 am to 10:13 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 482-010 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 482-10

Date: April 19, 1971
Time: 9:58 am - 10:13 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Foreign relations
          -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                -Schedule
          -People's Republic of China [PRC]

     Vietnam
          -Anti-war rally
               -Allard K. Lowenstein
               -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson
               -Liberal Democrats
               -Television coverage

     Earth Day
          -John V. Lindsay
          -John D. Ehrlichman
          -Environment
          -Possible Congressional resolution
          -President's proclamation

**********************************************************************

[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 12/05/2019.
Segment cleared for release.]
[Personal Returnable]
[482-010-w002]

       Earth Day
              -The President’s family
                     -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon
                            -Activities

**********************************************************************

     Earth Day
          -Participants
          -Gen. Lewis B. Hershey
          -J. Edgar Hoover

     PRC
           -Newsweek coverage
                -Mention of President
           -Time coverage
           -Newsweek coverage
           -Time
                -President’s 1967 article in foreign affairs
           -John F. Osborne

     Vietnam
          -Negotiations
          -Pham Van Dong
                -French change` d’affaires
          -Kissinger’s forthcoming message to Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
          -Dobrynin's Schedule

[Transcript #1: A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under
court order from December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums,
et al. v. James M. Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records
Administration produced this transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

           -US position
           -Dobrynin
           -Message
           -USSR
                -Timing
                      -Demonstrations
           -Dobrynin

**********************************************************************

[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-023. Segment declassified on 04/30/2019. Archivist: MAS]
[National Security]
[482-010-w004]
[Duration: 28s]

       Vietnam
             -Intelligence
             -Vernon A. Walters
                      -Previous telephone call with Henry A. Kissinger
             -Timing
                      -April 22, 1971

**********************************************************************

     US - Soviet Relations
          -US position
               -Negotiations on Vietnam
          -Newsweek article
               -Zbigniew Brzezinski
               -Hubert H. Humphrey
               -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
          -Washington Post article, April 19, 1971
               -Administration's foreign policy
                     -Lyndon B. Johnson administration
               -Democrats

             -SALT
             -Soviet military buildup
                  -Possible consequence by 1972 election
                  -Size
             -Democrats
             -Jackson

          -Democrats
          -Vietnam
          -Defense

     Vietnam
          -US casualties
               -Compared with previous week

     Nelson A. Rockefeller
          -Schedule
          -Meeting with Kissinger

     President's meeting with American Society of Newspaper Editors [ASNE], April 16, 1971
           -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
          -Media coverage
          -Questions

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 9:58 am.

     President's schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 10:13 am.

     President's meeting with ASNE
           -Television
           -Applause
           -Questions
                 -PRC
                 -Vietnam
                      -Lt. William L. Calley, Jr.

     Polls
             -Vietnam
                  -Opinion Research Corporation [ORC]

                      -News summary
                -Approval rate
                -President's speech on Southeast Asia, April 7, 1971
     Cabinet
          -John B. Connally
               -Domestic issues
          -William P. Rogers
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
               -John Foster Dulles
               -Presidency
               -Dulles

     Democrats
         -Disloyalty

The President and Kissinger left at 10:13 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I think it's, uh, coming along.
Uh, Sabrina did not get back last night.
Uh, she didn't get back.
No, but if she doesn't get back yesterday, it won't be until Wednesday night.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
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Yeah, right.
But as soon as the first night of the war ends, you know, I think he's set tight.
He's a bit more of a liberal Democrat than he is a mixed-race Santa.
But actually, I saw a couple of TV covers of the Nancy War Alley.
They just looked very expensive.
It looked like the usual guys.
We get out on these lists.
There's a white, there's a black lady.
Oh, did you see it on television?
It's a nice picture.
It's a nice picture.
It's a nice picture.
It's a nice picture.
But he said, well, they're not passing their big resolution on the issue of Congress, and we ought to get ahead of them and do the clutter and the deep, so I decided to...
I was ashamed of myself.
God, that Earth thing is... Now, again, I want to clean Earth...
The people that are in there are horrible people.
Or my mom, or you, or I think, I think with everything that we've been through, the people who fired on her, she said to herself, you know, the firing of Hoover now would be the same thing.
She's got to go, but I can't fire.
And with the Earth, they are not that.
They are not our friends.
I don't mean to get so involved.
I think you are right.
I think you are right.
I think you are right.
Parts that were developed by you on the China side, if you will.
What are you saying?
News speaking.
Manages to have a whole story on the China policy list and mentions you only once.
It's a favorable story.
But if we were getting run out someplace, they'd have your name in every second sentence and have me read every letter.
That's all they're saying about me, you know.
And then all the work you've done on the most important...
Well, Time, none of Time was on it, but Newsweek, it's a friendly article, and I mean, I just skimmed it, and it's the net impact, and so far it's a good story about American foreign policy as far as the administration.
Yeah, well, maybe.
But... Well, there's a Time article.
There's a Time article.
All right.
And then there's me.
Yes.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
And then there's me.
to the French Chargé in Hanoi and made some subtle little points which I think that I'm going to get the message out to them this week whether or not the treatment is bad.
This week is a good time, isn't it?
It's central to what I do or whether or not that's why I'm in mind that maybe you ought to get the message out about exposing them, as you said, please.
That's right.
Before the demonstration, I mean.
So no matter what I think, I think I'm almost inclined to get the call out of the other side.
You know what I mean?
So either way, we'll obviously work on it.
He says no.
He says yes.
That's right.
That's the message I'll play around with.
That's the message that we're resulting in.
All right.
Are you ready or not?
But let's find out.
If they're not going to, then we've got to go our other way and arm ourselves.
We may have to go very hard on a lot of things.
Although I am with you on the Russians.
Neither of the Russians are going to talk to us.
We're out against them.
Mr. President, if the Russians don't talk to us, we've got to go hard on them.
I've found in Newsweek that we've, for example, a fellow president who is a brilliant opportunist and who was one of country's foreign policy advisors.
He has an article that he's now become convinced that the Russians are using salt in order to gain military superiority over us.
Washington post-army response, where they said that the administration could move to a two-and-a-half-war policy in the Johnson-Candy administration.
Now, we're going to visit for Christ's sake, we did it.
We did it, for Christ's sake, we did it, because we couldn't have done that choice of drugging.
Now, we couldn't put the Muslims in the back of the Democrats in the cover of the budget.
That's right.
That's right.
But when they go into a trash program with 61 large nickels in 600...
I'm sorry.
Jacksonville and LaPilla, these districts were all out there in April, Mitch.
The outside has been article slamming all the Democrats since we got here as soon as we got here.
We just got here for a while.
Oh, for being absolutely predictable.
All they, you ask about Vietnam, all they can say is get out faster.
You ask them about defense, they say cut it.
They say, uh, come to force, they all say the same thing.
And, uh, it's a, it's a pretty scary thing, I think, so.
Uh, the casualties this week are about 48, but, uh, that includes those 11, so, uh, more way to last you, 42.
Uh, and...
And this week, so far, we've had two days.
They start counting Sunday, Sunday, and Monday.
They have been off the head field.
We cannot discover any casualties.
So if this keeps up, they're going to be very lucky.
We might have a real job next week.
And that would be important.
That's the best thing to do.
The last of our men of those 11 are from one ambush.
Well, I'm breathing in a little bit right now.
He let me know that he was going to be down here last night.
He didn't have to see me, but...
I'll let you know when I'm ready.
Yes, but who is the church?
It's not a question.
Okay.
But I think later, we had last week, we had an army after college, and of course, we had applause.
People liked to hear it, applause.
We didn't know any of the lecturers, but I figured it out, and, you know, they did it.
But when you make the decision, Mr. Bitson, we had no way of knowing the China thing, which is another thing.
And if it had to be for that, you might have to go on to the Pentagon.
Yeah, well, I mean, well, as it turned out, I'm trying to think of a thing.
I was on the defensive one a bit.
But as it turned out, it was still about Vietnam, Cali, and all that sort of thing.
Yet another unsuccessful thing you can talk about in the United States, and I can talk about it, too.
I saw that O.R.C.
fall, and then, that's how I screwed the string.
That is all you had to do?
I think that was that, man.
48, 40.
On full floor?
Yeah.
Well, I showed you the recording of all these, well, these combats.
Well, about the way that you could reverse it with one speed, you know, it isn't an overwhelming endorsement, but it's... No, it's good.
So it's great.
The real thing, I guess, is, you know...
I want you really to do all the hard work that you need to fight this terrible, vicious enemy here in the country.
Go on.
Fighting the theft of their lives.
Go on.
Yeah, I don't suppose we're going to do anything about that unless we find some other soul.
Things, things, things, things, things, things, things, things, things, things, things,
Mr. Dulles took all the heat for the uh...
I don't know if it's real or not, because it probably isn't, but I don't know if it's real or not.
I just don't like it.
We need to go on.
We don't need these vaccines.
We need to be active.
But I just don't get it.
Damn it.
It's just so hot in there.
I mean, just, just...
The soil of the country is on top of the name of God, and they need to destroy it.
They have to destroy Europe.
They have no other choice.