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Conversation 482-024

TapeTape 482StartMonday, April 19, 1971 at 4:54 PMEndMonday, April 19, 1971 at 5:05 PMTape start time04:03:26Tape end time04:14:51ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Bull, Stephen B.;  Hodgson, James D.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman discuss the necessity of adopting a more aggressive, partisan political strategy to defend against opposition, while critiquing staff members who favor compromise over confrontation. Nixon expresses a desire to remove disloyal administration officials and suggests using Vice President Agnew to publicly attack Senate critics. The meeting also covers logistical planning for upcoming events, including an appearance before the Daughters of the American Revolution and a meeting with AFL-CIO leadership.

PartisanshipPersonnel managementSpiro AgnewPolitical strategyAFL-CIONixon administration
AudioNARA Description

On April 19, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Stephen B. Bull, and James D. Hodgson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:54 pm to 5:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 482-024 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 482-24

Date: April 19, 1971
Time: 4:54 pm - 5:05 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

     President's Daughters of the American Revolution [DAR] appearance
           -Attire for women
           -Black tie

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:54 pm.

          -Attire for women
                -Thelma C. (Ryan) (“Pat”) Nixon

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:03 pm.

     President's meeting with John L. McClellan
           -Clark MacGregor
           -Senate
                 -Attacks on President
                 -Defenders
                 -Robert J. Dole
                 -Southern Democrats
                 -Republicans

                -Enemies/friends
                -Barry M. Goldwater

     Silent majority
           -Evidence
           -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                -Possible attacks on Senate "doves"
           -Dole
           -Agnew
                -Possible initiatives
                      -Television

     President meeting with McClellan
           -Dump Agnew movement
                 -President
           -President's Democrat opponents
           -Staff
                 -John D. Ehrlichman
                 -George P. Shultz
                 -Partisanship

Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:54 pm.

     President's schedule
           -Meeting with James D. Hodgson

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:03 pm.

     John B. Connally

     United Nations [UN] staff appointees
          -George H.W. Bush
          -Charles W. Yost
               -Removal
          -Frederic V. Malek
          -Publicity
          -Loyalty

     Discipline within administration
          -Shultz
                -Views on personnel management

          -Politics
          -Yost
          -Walter J. Hickel
          -Charles E. Goodell
          -MacGregor
          -Senate
                -William E. Brock, III

     Haldeman’s conversation with Daniel P. (“Patrick”) Moynihan
          -Economy
               -Stock market

Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:54 pm.

     President's schedule
           -Hodgson

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:03 pm.

     Moynihan
         -Vietnam

Hodgson and Bull entered at 5:03 pm.

     President's schedule
           -Meeting with AFL-CIO Building & Construction Trades members
                 -Rose Garden

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:05 pm.

               -Length of meeting
          -DAR appearance
          -Meeting with AFL-CIO members
               -Length of meeting
               -Rose Garden
               -Agenda
               -Hodgson's possible remarks
                     -John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson
               -Issues
                     -Davis-Bacon act

President, Haldeman, and Hodgson left at 5:05 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Do they expect these women to wear long dresses when I meet them in the office?
I don't think so.
They all wear long dresses.
We'll do our thing in the hall.
Okay, let's do it.
Black tie, you're right.
I'm kind of disturbed.
No, this is more aggressive than I thought.
Ah, yes, they do.
Well, that's good.
They do think so.
I said, you know, the people in the sun, do you know anybody in the pension?
We've got just these people down here.
He said, it's terrible.
He said, these crabs out there, they're out to eat your brains off.
He said, they always have to nibble a little while, but now they're not.
They're pissed off, beating their brains off.
He says, nobody to pinch you.
Now, you know, we think about it.
I don't think I hit this too often.
If he feels that way, God damn it, maybe our guys aren't up there enough.
Maybe they don't hit it.
I don't know.
No one did, at least.
And it's not often.
That's the reaction of a Democrat boy who's infuriated.
He said, you know, that's the problem.
He said, you didn't lose another Republican.
You wouldn't.
You wouldn't.
That's the real problem.
It was good to see him talk to him.
Weird.
We've gone overboard, actually.
I've mentioned this several times.
We've gone overboard in terms of getting our enemies in here.
We have got to get our friends in here.
But that's why... We said Goldwire's very good, but he says he's not very believable.
This is McCallum.
You know, we always get this business.
I think maybe that the campaign, because it came out the way it did, got us a little too gun-shy.
And it was drawn off everybody all the time.
I mean, that...
They think, well, there is no sound majority, and so on and so on.
Well, there is a sound majority, but you've got to stir it up a little bit.
See my point?
That's my thing.
Does it occur to you to have anyone maybe make a couple speeches against some of these senators?
No.
That's better than getting them to press, isn't it?
Let anyone defend the president against these irresponsible presidential candidates.
Do it again.
Well, I mean, the idea maybe is to get him on and build him up a big speech, get him on a call.
You know, like I said, just a couple weeks ago, build it up, you know, and I'm really gonna, I'm gonna have a big expose, and Agnew goes in there and just rips the shit out of him.
That's what he does.
I had a very interesting point.
You said, you know, looking at the egg, not the egg,
and the people that want to know about you.
That is true.
On the policy side, of course, it's mostly the same.
But the tariff rates are all down on the river.
They've all got political reasons.
They're out to eat you.
They're out to eat your brains out.
They're partisans.
You've got to remember that.
And you've got to fight them.
Now, the next half week, we're going to talk to some of those guys on the way.
So now, for example, you've got to meet your friends up.
See, I think we've got some random naive people on the staff off, aren't you?
Earthling, Chulks, and the rest don't really realize how much this is a totally partisan battle, see?
That's your job, isn't it?
We don't want to make it partisan.
We have to fight our own game.
We've still got to take them all on the base and sit there and talk to them.
That's the way it works.
You know what I'm saying, Chris?
So how do you...
Yes, sir, yes, sir.
I'm the captain, too.
Do you want me to hear it?
Well, I'll give you a buzz just a second.
I want to think a little about it, and I'll give you more time.
I'm just trying to think.
It's a sort of thought that I'm trying to figure out, but I do know this, that it's right in London.
We've just got to stand up and give them the balls.
I want George Bush.
That's another one.
I want one more.
I'm going to roll a few.
I'm going to roll more than two or three.
But one more is better.
Let's find some other heads to roll.
What was it?
This policy.
No.
Some do, don't they?
I'm not so sure.
Well, then, goodbye.
Not at all.
Not that I'm aware of.
None of our people want to go.
Where you get the disagreement is when you get to the specific.
There's always the guy that's responsible for what doesn't want to end.
Yeah.
The general idea that we ought to get rid of the people that we know are going to flop on us somewhere along the line.
Or screw us from inside.
Yeah.
But he agrees.
Chelsea may disagree.
He's...
I know George tends more to look to people for confidence rather than, yes, and also his idea is you can work with people and that you can really work out anything with anybody.
He's wrong.
That isn't true in politics.
In universities, you can't put it that way.
But in politics, they're out to beat you.
They're out to cut your guts off and see the blood flow.
That's what he does not realize.
What the hell?
What the hell?
Yos was a competent man, right?
Sure.
But he was up to cut our heads off, right?
And he didn't wait very damn long either.
We'll find our way as soon as we can.
Funny though, it hasn't made a hell of a splash.
That's the other point you've got to remember.
Get them out, get them out, and they don't need to eat much anymore.
Now Pickles is going to be the great terror running all over the country.
And he can't even find him.
Correct.
I'm Caddell.
What in Christ did he come up with?
Now that he's defeated, what the hell is he?
McGregor.
All right.
I hope that McGregor knows that he needs some strong men of that sort.
Bang along, and bang them regularly.
I don't know who else you've got.
You've got a problem, maybe.
I don't know who you are.
I don't know who you are.
I don't know who you are.
I don't know who you are.
I don't know who you are.
The economy's up.
The stocks aren't up.
He was all excited about the economy.
What did he say?
Oh, yeah.
But that was just, you know, good news.
He was in high spirits.
Does he realize the war is on the way down?
He didn't even mention the war.
Well, he knows it is.
The group is expressing interest in seeing the road starting after the crash.
Sure.
You might want to mention that too.
You might want to, after the meeting, to start outside and see it.
Sure.
If I was very popular, they could be the guest of the day.
Yeah, that's right.
What I was going to do, the question's always going to be, how long do you think we should meet?
At the most, an hour.
Well, I can't, not more than an hour, so I've got to go to the VAR and see if there's any difference, please.
Oh, fine.
So if there's no problem with that, we'll talk about it.
Well, in fact, if you knock off a bird, even that thing doesn't go out in the roadside.
Well, uh, shall I just open with a few comments?
Well, I thought I would be one of them by saying that they've got the biggest conference ever down here that 4,000 people care because of what's going on and the executive branch is of interest to them.
So I very appreciate the opportunity to come and talk with you and then have a conversation.
or you want me to raise those things?
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