Conversation 486-007

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What would you presume, what would you list?

I would say, Mr. President, pretty much what we've said before, that we're reconsidering, we haven't decided, and we want to touch base with our closest friends and see how they feel.

The problem, as you know, is that Israel can't be delivered.

Israel can't be delivered.

But anyway, now, the question is, and I really would like to get your judgment on this too, and what you've got to repent.

You're not closer.

I, as you know, try to stay very far apart from the time.

I'm trying to keep everybody engaged.

I mean, I kept Henry out of it, but hey, and they, and you know, we get the sense that, come on, go out.

It's very easy to create numbers.

Now, we have tried.

I think we've done fairly well.

The thing, the fear that is expressed,

And frankly, they get to a lot of people, but we've got John, actually, he raised it with me yesterday.

Bob was here, if I asked Bob.

Yeah, Bob, he didn't raise any questions about you or anything.

He just says that you're great.

You're really, you stirred up the idea that, well, if we press them too hard, we're going to have a war.

It's a little war on us, I think.

My view is they will not.

What I meant is that I cannot see this situation as the same as it was in 1967.

I also feel strongly that they are underestimating

reactions, again, my reaction, you know, are ours.

There's an underestimating reaction in this country to a request that we give them all our assistance in the event they assume responsibility for creating a ceasefire.

The resistance in my opinion will be overpowering against the system.

That's my view.

Now,

they, nevertheless, they must have friends who tell them otherwise, and so on and so forth.

I think the question is how much you can go, how far you can go, in talking to them.

And thank you for the reason.

And the question also is, if you've got a chance, what do you do with the bigger package or the larger package?

And where did you leave him at this point?

What do you think about it?

I have no, I have no strong, I just, as I said, I do know the air.

It must be farther on the metro than the bridge.

I guess he was getting, as you said, from that bridge to follow you.

I'm not sure.

He did set up this, this, this view.

John gets it.

He is working so very well.

Well, I had Max and some of the Jewish men who were there.

I spent two hours with them.

Max called me and said it was great because I'm half-wit and so forth.

We haven't had much black on paper, but because I think we've lived through the last six weeks, we've been off as well.

Well, I, uh, you know, I think first, let me say it.

Let me go back a couple of things.

I think it's very important.

.

And also with both you and me, we appreciate this close to the condition, the very opportunity that they had to be part of the work, not just that we might have a little bit of that.

On these rigs, if you could play that, I think you should do it.

You should tell Mrs. Stiles that we can talk about this matter if you will.

As a man of prime minister, you have a strong friend here.

I mean, despite the fact that he's had no political support from the American Jewish Union, I always thought that every time he wrote it, or actually wrote it, you are a better friend.

It's a matter that we will maintain the balance of power, which is always good.

But we are at the present time, we...

We are being pressed to bring our hands, but in terms of messages too, also with people like Sadat, who was a bureaucrat, and Beirut, I know, and...

On the question of Israel, here's where it stands now.

Israel has decided that because of domestic political considerations, because it's so difficult to make decisions, that probably the best thing for them to do is to stay where they are.

to argue about everything, to debate it, to attack anybody that said anything contrary to the views, with the hope that nothing might happen.

And there go the Westerners.

There's a video that supports it.

I mean, I can understand the position.

First, they know that the Russians don't want war.

They know that if a war occurred, they'd win.

They know that...

Egypt is not as concerned about a war as she was before because she's got very good defenses now.

The Soviet Union has strengthened Egypt considerably, and they've got a hell of a lot of SAM sites.

In fact, it's the strongest defensive position outside of the Soviet Union in terms of SAM sites.

They've got a lot of airplanes and a lot of base, so that they feel much more comfortable defensively than they did before.

Furthermore, the tourist is flourishing in Egypt.

They just had a big discovery in oil.

So Israel said to itself, Egypt is in a pretty good frame of mind, basically.

So probably, if Sadat can stay in the saddle, probably he won't start anything.

He's trying to figure out excuses for what's going on in Iraq.

So let's argue.

Let's not make any concessions to anybody, particularly don't make any concessions to the United States.

You've got elections coming up pretty soon.

You're going to be reluctant, you, the United States, are going to be reluctant to really go to the bat with us.

So just talk to you with a nice, double-talking, and friendly, and so forth.

Now, I talked to a lot of them.

I talked to Alon.

He was here as Deputy Prime Minister.

I talked to the editor of the leading paper yesterday.

They all appreciate all the things to be done, but I don't think I see any inclination in their part to budge.

It seems to me our principal objective is to try to work out a peace agreement.

I'm talking about a full agreement.

That's a long-term proposition.

It can't be done.

It would be impractical if we could do it in less than a year, maybe, or maybe more.

But that should be our goal, and we should continue to support your argument.

We should talk about a final agreement and so forth.

And we should get, and this is going to be a response, and she hasn't responded at all.

All she's done is say what she wanted.

She checked everything.

She said, we want this out.

We want to go back to the board.

She said, we'll negotiate what you said.

So, our original objective, it seems to me, is to try to support the ERA mission.

Secondly, and this is what I want to try to do with the chair, is to get the parties to move closer together on the Suez proposal.

Israel has made a proposal.

That's what I meant.

Sadat sent a message to me today to my man Ferguson, which he said he wants to spend three hours with him going.

He's got another proposal.

He's got a big mask on.

He wants to talk to me about how he sees it.

We don't want to be in a position of superseding Yari.

I've got to be careful about that.

I don't want to be in a position to be a mediator on Suez.

On the other hand, we're the only ones that can do it.

We're the only ones that talk to both sides.

So what I'm saying, in fact, is that we're playing the role of constructive diplomacy.

We're trying to discourage the discussions.

We are not going to mediate.

We're not going to twist anybody's eyes.

We're hopefully going to create a better feeling of understanding.

to see if there are possibilities of accommodation, but to not pushing and not being mediated.

And I think that that role, I'm going to say, entails some risk, but the President wants to be going to take this.

He's asked me to take the trip.

We realize that it's a very close situation.

We have many friends in the Arab world and many friends in Israel.

And this trip is the idea of trying to be helpful.

We're not sure that we can be, but we're going to try.

I think that approach.

Now, when we get to Israel, we've got to be a little bit harsh on those people.

But I'll give you the schedule.

London, where I stayed for the senior meeting for two days.

Then I thought I'd stop to see Shuma in Paris because his nose will be on a joint.

So I'll stop at the airport and go in to see him.

Or he may come out to see me.

I haven't done any stuff.

But anyway, I'll pay a visit to him for two, three hours.

Then find an anchor.

We've got a lot of problems in Turkey.

That's the central meeting.

And the Foreign Minister of Vietnam will be there.

The PAC and BAN will be there.

There's a lot of questions about Pakistan.

And then we're going to fly to Saudi Arabia, stay there a day.

He's a hell of a guy, highly intelligent.

So the person who was in all of our cars in the 1960s, he was over there in the treatment time in the 90s, he had a nice truck, a great visit, but he was very passionate.

He's important to us all, right?

He's a good friend.

Although he's not interested in this negotiation.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Now go to Jordan.

Come on.

Good, so I'll stay here overnight.

24 hours.

Good work.

Then go to London.

Now the reason I go to London at 3rd is because they do have some help with security problems.

Then I go to Egypt, stay a couple days there, and then Israel.

I'm going to try to knock out, not have any social occasions except, you know, in the state system.

No sightseeing, no shopping, nothing, just business, so I'm not going to all the social occasions.

I'm going to try to do exactly the same thing in Egypt and Israel.

If Israel takes me out to the Suez, I'll try to get the Egyptians to do it.

Otherwise, I'll try to play it exactly the same way in both countries.

I guess not, because they just built the same site.

If they are, go.

You know, this is how it will proceed.

Uh, and then, then there's also, there's another connotation we're going to go on to.

Because, you remember that, sir?

We broke our fingers with the dogs.

And it's, and it's worth saying, I was there to see, and kind of my private business in 63, and they all remember that.

As a matter of fact, this is going to be the first time that any Secretary of State has been to the U.S. since John Ford's bill.

And when he came, John, he gave me that.

And it's an unusual thing.

Normally, you know, this is a country that you don't have any kind of relations with.

It's the only country I've ever been to.

We spent two days there.

And then we got the Italian government.

They didn't mercy to stop there.

I don't know if you can see it.

How about the Israelis?

How do you go about it?

You just kind of say, well, we want to talk about it, or you don't plan to, at this time, to...

No.

You can't tell if we're gonna do it or not.

Well, I really think you can sort of get the temper of the water, can't you?

Well, I'm gonna try to do a little bit more than that.

I'm gonna...

I'm gonna hurt some dirt.

I'm gonna do it pretty firm, but I wouldn't obviously ever talk about squeezing and pushing and things like that, but...

She told us that as soon as Egypt agreed to all these things that they helped Egypt, she thought she could settle this.

She said, I'll tell you exactly what my plan is, what we want, and so forth.

We have been able to get from Egypt

All the things that they said they needed.

Why can't you?

What's going on?

I saw the answer they gave us.

Is it just there that they were ensuring just impossible again?

You said they'd always say what they won't do, not even there.

Well, they didn't say what they will do, but they set forth conditions that they can totally accept.

In other words, they, in that situation, they appear to be able to overcome it, but then they stick it and they say, you know, God damn, well, I can't accept it.

Just to give you an example, a line, I went over the list, but each one of the paragraphs is more than what it just means.

One, they said, if we withdraw a few miles from the Suez, we don't want to deserve a force or some kind of a force.

Well, he said, a force made up of Egyptians and Israelis.

And I said, now wait, you gotta be kidding.

You're not serious about that, are you?

Well, he said that's one idea that's out there.

I just don't know.

I can't say.

What I'm saying is that they suggest, you know, they're goddamn smart people through the air.

You might say they're dumb, but he's goddamn smart.

And what they do is they, they know that they may, they know this is a goddamn impossibility.

Let me ask you, what is the situation now?

What is your evaluation, Bill, of this constant threat that they keep throwing around that, well, if we get pressed too hard, we're going to go to war?

What are you thinking about that?

I'll see you.

What should they do?

What's in it for them?

You got everything you want.

I'm going to go to war.

I mean, that's exactly what, what about those, what about this last delivery of maids and all that sort of, that they didn't mention about that time?

Yeah, we were delivering camels.

All right.

I don't know what's the difference.

No, they, uh, why would they go to war?

They got exactly what they wanted.

They got everything out of the Suez.

They got everything out of the Jordan River.

They got the gold and ice.

There was no trade in Illinois.

So, if they went to war, what would they, what would they see to achieve?

Are the Russians, do they think, are they pressing the Egyptians and Russians?

The Russians have been, you know, we've allowed them to, we've given them dues, they've been on this one.

Now they're supplying Egypt.

Most of the things they're supplying are defensive.

They're supplying some more, I'd say the latest one was five, which go a lot farther.

So what they're doing is

It's quite clear.

They're saying that we're going to give you all kinds of defensive equipment.

You're secure that you can defend yourself.

We'll be there as necessary.

We'll fly the guy to the end of the plane.

So don't start anything.

But I always suggest that they want us to start it because it's not their interest to have the war beginning.

They're very interested.

What they want is to keep it just where it is.

Because then they get the whole Arab world to swear at us.

Egypt has done all the things that the international community wants it to do.

They've done it in a way that no one thought they would be able to do.

They've said in effect that Israel, yes, we accept the fact that you own that land.

It's yours.

During all these years, they said, it's our land.

You've taken our land.

We want our land back.

You can live there.

It's our land.

Now they said, it's yours.

You keep it.

We'll assign an agreement to that.

You can live there in peace and all the things that we'll give you through the passage, through the straits, through the...

There you go.

All the things that we've asked to do.

Now, what has Israel done?

Israel has said, we want to go back to the international funders.

We won't tell you what we're going to do.

We want to annex some of the land.

We want to negotiate.

We're not laying on drugs on the table.

Now, what's going to happen pretty soon is, you know, the industry gets back in my shoes.

It's true.

I said, does anybody want to try to seek a solution?

I mean, I'm thinking of all the arguments.

Is anybody in your government that sort of says to yourself, I'd like to try that on this.

Let me ask you to do this because of a human match.

I don't know.

I'll probably get fired.

I'll be fired.

Senator, I think the trip is going to be a hell of a lot of fun.

And if you could send me a don't know the great trouble I don't want.

I said this, and they served Dean on both.

But just give me a quick summary that I read each day.

buying from all the Arab countries who didn't, you know, Israel and Egypt.

You already made it to it.

If they didn't manage, not 1100 Saudis, there's nothing there.

Because those are the things that I, and Bob, see that I get that personally.

I'm not just giving any personal memorandum.

Well, we've done a pretty good job, Mr. President.

Oh, Mark, I'll just have it.

You've got some of that, so give it to me.

I'm trying to think of it.

Just have it wherever you want it.

Oh, no, no, no.

That's just the most good.

I've just promised these things.

Well, just have them to make it look like the usual kind of deal where they just send me the meat and potatoes so that I'll know what's going on and be able to respond and try to...

it'll be it'll be it'll go well then uh

Have they, uh, uh, the railings have indicated rain.

They're coming.

Boy, you know, they rain.

You see, they snow you.

They give you the words.

They take you out to everything.

They show you.

I'll tell you what.

I'll show you.

I'll take you on the road.

I'll take you to Jerusalem.

You know what you'll see there.

The tanks that they shot up in the 1940-45 war, they still got them up there all the time.

With flowers on them, garland.

It's a darn show, the other song.

Almost certainly.

It's like one of those, it's very fundraising.

You know, there is no sun.

There is no sun, man.

But I can tell you also, too, as I told you, it is the worst food in the world.

You hear what I'm saying?

Really?

Yeah, I went to Tel Aviv.

D.D.

was with us on that occasion.

You know, he's a private professor.

I should thank him with him.

Ha!

And what happened was that he went to his adventure.

You know, we went there.

And, you know, he said, well, at least we'd get here so you'd know him and him and me.

He said, we'd stay at these beautiful Tel Aviv hotels and Tel Aviv, you know, and all this.

Well, at least one month they all shared furnished food because you know, that's what they had to do.

And he said, he said, he said, all I can say, he went out and said, and I said, I had to eat with some embassy people.

Everything, not embassy, but their embassy people.

I had to eat with them out of office.

He went out with some girl down to the television building place.

He said he ordered whatever it was.

He says, it just tasted like cow shit.

I said, this is terrible.

He goes, you'll fall.

I said, it's not at all.

Listen, it's not there.

See, they show it on the Spartan.

It's unknown.

And it is unbelievably bad.

He says, it's unbelievably bad.

I said, why forget the little things?

If he needs it, it won't be so bad.

The interesting thing is that Rabin is quite supportive of our position.

Maybe he may have ought not to know.

He's a little more reasonable.

The interesting thing is that we are such a good foe between him and Elan.

And they were very unhappy with the response and the proposal that she made on the Suez and said they were realistic and, you know, the Americans are not going to be sucked in by that.

They don't catch on right away.

And they were complaining about her, which was kind of surprising.

Now, the editor of the paper earlier, they told me, I forgot the name of the paper, but it's a leaving tweet, but that...

Village Voice.

that he thought that they might have to have another election.

He doesn't think she could pull it off.

Another election, is somebody strong enough to make a deal?

You know, the thing that still appeals to me, and I think that it's very important to say it to our Jewish people, and I do that to Jewish people, I say, look, I know we don't want to pressure you,

If I were to make the deal, when you've got all the Congress, I mean, don't wait, because if the time gets on, the deal's going to get tougher.

And when they make the deal, the whole Congress lets them.

Jesus Christ, they're putting down the trophy and almost anything they want.

But they've got to have it.

Another thing they've got to remember is that support for the jury position in the United States

is every year eroding.

Now, I know that.

You agree?

Sure.

That's all the polls, and you think nobody wants to go fight for it.

And also, I know a lot of people want to support it.

Now, things have changed.

It isn't like it was.

And if they think that as we get toward an election, that I, for example, go teacup, or kettle, or rest, or...

That's one thing.

I suppose what they figured out is that the Democratic candidate would do so much.

Now, I think the American people, that's a straight up and down issue, are not going to go with the Jews.

They are going to twist their arm, that's what she thinks.

Well, you're not going to twist their arm, but you're going to talk persuasively.

What we're faced with, and what I've seen, is we're going to be faced with Security Council meetings

which will be required to consider a resolution condemning Israel for not responding.

saying that they should respond, complimenting Egypt for being positive and making these concessions.

And other things that will be very unpleasant for Israel.

And we'll have to vote for it.

Every other nation will vote for it.

It will be consistent with our policy.

We can't bring one world against it.

Israel doesn't have a vote, I hope, in the United Nations.

I don't think Ethiopia votes for them.

I don't think the Congo and other countries are very close to Israel.

And on the truth of that, her position is totally untenable.

So what I've said is we are looking for a kind of mission we hope we want to be avoided, but if this happens, we'll have to support that kind of resolution.

Let me ask you to do one other thing, consider one other thing that could be an enormous domestic factor that goes in another area, Turkey.

I don't think I know what it's talking to, not to you, but to yours, Lord.

I was at the ceremony at 4.30.

Oh, my God, that's what it was.

or a costume of some of his honor.

And God damn Johnson, how many did he leave behind?

He left a whole stack.

He wouldn't give them.

He never gave them.

He couldn't bring himself to face them.

And I just stood up as we came in.

Oh, I don't know.

I don't know.

But anyway, I was going to say, we had a meeting with a Negro congressman, a congressman, a very attractive guy, I thought, from Central Harlem.

I guess he was a key to that, Clayton Powell Randolph, or maybe he's another history.

But he spoke very vigorously about the heroin thing.

And he said, we've just got to do better and give aid to countries and so forth.

And he says, by God, we've got to stop this heroin coming into the United States.

And I said, we are doing a lot.

And I said, why can't I take it?

Connolly raised the subject this morning, and he said that the problem is that you've got a new government in Turkey, and they don't want to just say, look, stop it.

But that we want to say, well, let it continue to be grown in two provinces.

If, Bill, you on this trip, if you could in some way come out and say, we have an agreement with the Jewish government, this and that one, pay it if it's necessary.

I mean, for that, more aid, more anything.

But if you could do that, and I know that the line is, well, the government is too sensitive.

This involves farmers, it involves political considerations, and so forth and so on.

But the dope problem here, from an Negro congressman from Harlem racism,

And, of course, it's raised.

You just can't imagine how many other people raise it.

They say, why in the hell, all of the aid we give to Turkey, can we get them to quit raising this stinking little crop of whatever it is, heroin, heroin, and so forth?

Could you take that out?

Oh, yeah.

I thought the comics had something about it.

What I was thinking, though, if it could come out of your trip, I mean, it also can...

I think if you could say, if you could negotiate just cold turkey, and as I say, give them more money, anything, I think it would have a hell of an impact on this country.

I really do.

I do.

And play it very hard.

I don't see any reason why we have to go around robbing the farm of all the damn things.

What is the crop?

What are we talking about?

Isn't all that the issue?

It isn't a money problem at all.

Farmers?

Well, it's farmers, plus the fact that you've got to have a licensing authority, because they can grow the goddamn stuff anyway.

It's really where a lot of countries grow it, and they use it for medicinal reasons.

What you need is a licensing authority, and they're trying to get it through the legislature now.

What you're saying is you just wondered because the value of the farm is so small, but it's the length of the total crop, that you wondered why you couldn't do Moynihan's old plan of the U.S. just contracting to buy it.

Tell them to raise it, we'll buy the whole crop, and then just bring over Furman.

What, where?

Because we don't want to say that this wasn't in the medicine.

Say what we want, but it doesn't have to be in the medicine.

It's codeine, and everything's made out of opium.

Yeah.

But then, and then burn for us, you know, the cost is less than that, and then the police...

This is not the problem.

The problem is how do you regulate it?

How do you know you bought it all?

What'll happen if you buy it?

Does that double screw it?

Anyway, so the government has to have the authority to regulate it, license it, and that sort of thing.

Once you get that through, then there's no problem because it's a small amount of money.

Well, a prophecy is an art.

Just say that.

This is where the money is.

It's here.

Could I say, though, that to mention, at least, at least, you know, are you listening?

uh, making a hell of a lot of publicity about the fact that you are personally looking into this matter and plug it right up in the Hill.

Will you do that?

Yes, I think, well, I'll, let me play it by ear to see whether I should do that there.

When I get back, I'll do it, but I'll wait.

I mean, they don't want to bear the sense that the actual government, at least they, at least they can't, just arrived and accused us of being responsible.

Well, then you'll come back and say, that's it.

We'll try it anyway.

I talked to John, we'll do it if we can.

And today, is there a kind of conforming congressman from New Jersey who lost to the L-ranking government?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

Uh, rebel, to be honest.

So he's very capable, actually.

Someone else in gross is a huge lifeline.

He's a low P. He was there next to the chairman.

He was there in New Jersey.

And he ran against Harrison Williams and lost.

And he would be a very good man for...

But what I'm thinking about is, if I wanted to take over this, we've got a lot of people working on it, and they've all done a good job, but we don't have anybody that's...

Let's see.

How's Jim?

There's a congressman up there who said we need somebody, and I...

If he took it on, he...

He wants to do it.

He's a relentless guy.

He's a what?

Relentless guy.

He's a relentless guy.

He's a very relentless guy.

Could I ask you this?

You don't think... We can't have Jim Rosen here.

That's another zealot.

Jim Rhodes.

Well, Jim Rhodes, he's a real stemliner, I'll tell you, of Ohio, you know.

Don't ever underestimate him.

He's three times as bright as Nelson Rhodes.

He's a better public figure than Gross.

He would bounce in and out.

He would play.

I never even thought of him in this sort of capacity, but he would be more valuable to us than Nelson Gross, aren't you?

Well, that's possible.

General is so anxious to do something, I think.

Well, what I thought we could put in the charge of the COVID problem, you know, have him keep right on and do all these things.

We've got a lot of people working on it.

We don't have anybody that's sort of a big name.

You'd have him in your department.

Special assistant.

Good.

I know he would care a great deal about it, Jim Rose would care a great deal, but you see, he's working with Nick Rose.

He's part of it.

He's a crusader.

He's a low-key.

Jim Rose would get out there and stomp around, raise hell, and I'll come around before he's let us get going.

You'd be surprised how well you like him.

When you first see Jim Rousey, you're actually nuts.

But he's not funny, really.

Because he won't quit.

He's just like a caretaker.

You're going to, are you going to see the press tomorrow evening, the press conference?

Well, I think they may bring up this, I don't know, this Laos thing that people are addressing.

I don't mean, I mean the McCoskey report.

I think the general thing is to be real upbeat, which you would be anyway.

It's real upbeat about, I mean, upbeat about the war.

You know, as you said, Bill, I mean, really, it is downhill.

And the country's going to soon see this.

And on the China thing, we're not in any disagreement at all.

First, let me say one thing.

And let's just talk quite a bit.

Agnew, Bob and I have talked a little about him.

I have a person with me by the office.

I'm going to ask Bob to have a talk with Agnew.

Maybe Bryce, on one particular point, he cannot go out and on or off the record ever say that at the National Security Council, I recommended something.

Actually, he was, he missed quite a bit.

We weren't talking about the trade on the road.

We weren't talking about the travel.

We weren't talking about the big bombing.

We were talking about the tactical issue of admission to the U.N. That was something where we all had differences of opinion, of timing, isn't it?

And I knew, I think Frankie first had it wrong, but second, he should have mentioned it.

Now the way it happened, according to Bob, is that he had these recorded for three hours at 12 o'clock in the program.

And then it only came up in sort of, in the first 10, 15 minutes or so.

Or half.

It was a small part of it.

I think one of those things, one of the things I always think about today, I think a lot of these things turn out better and better.

I think that what this has done is to give you more visibility to show that you're not really

that type of man, and that, you know, Angus sometimes looks pretty silly, and this is his one that everybody in the country has voted against.

I think so.

The funny thing is, the sophisticates, the real super-sophisticate analysts on that, I think, are all fully convinced that it was a pure Machiavellian ploy on your part.

that you purposely put Agnew over there in order to accomplish exactly what it did, which was to put you right where you were.

Let me say that you would be pleased with one thing.

I, you know, with regard to this, if they're, we're supposed to say, if their team comes,

I am, and I think it works out perfectly because of his relations with your people.

I told Scali that he needs to be the man for the White House side, and Scali, of course, is just, he's just lyrical about this, he's typical of that, and so he'll work with your people, he'll work with their people, but this people is a real champion.

He's just out of a book, I mean.

No, he says, I'm not an executive.

He says, I'm just an employment supervisor.

Very good one.

He does everything right.

He's purely off.

He doesn't want to offer me money, but he doesn't have any money.

And the thing about it is, he won't take any government money to bring the chances.

He's distracted the government.

What we will have to do there, and naturally it's this, they don't understand that when they come here, it isn't like when we go there, we don't have any pre-transportation or athletic teams.

But we'll arrange that.

We'll get a China Foundation or something to arrange it.

And then I think we have to handle this as a government thing.

but in a low-key way, because the one thing I think we all worry about, and that's why Skelly won't be good, I just would hate to have the press descend on them the way they did on Khrushchev, you know, because they already beat him.

They'll be like monkeys.

We can't control the press the way they can in Chinatown.

And it wasn't interesting how he said he stayed until it tells him what he was going to say.

But wasn't he a nice man?

You're lucky that Bob was a nice man.

And he liked everything, and he didn't get into the politics at all.

Apparently, I'll tell him without hearing the press, and I scared anyone.

It was political.

We still don't know the president's own interest in that.

Our people could have known each other better.

Just to think that an average American loves to hear.

He's just completely square when it comes through.

He just takes a bath.

He doesn't point to it because he's 40 or 50 years of age and he's been there 43 years.

He's actually, he's actually, he looks much older.

He's the same age we are, and he looks older.

But what a nice man.

We, one other thing I was going to say, I had, you know, we had an incident that we couldn't do anything about.

Chief Justice, who had parents.

went up to the Supreme Court and squatted up there and raised hell.

So the Chief Justice called the Chief of Police and had him removed.

So they finally got the picture that they're trying to get.

I hope, even though we have a court order, we have told Mitchell just to continue to negotiate with Ramsey Clark and say we're trying to negotiate a peaceful evacuation of the area.

Because I don't want to pick a policeman throwing batteries out of the place that you think is distressed.

Is there anything else we can do on the thing?

We're trying to locate a cop.

Can we get him to get to the house?

Can we get him some place on location?

No, it's been offered.

They've offered him a Kennedy Stadium.

They've offered him a Washington 50-year-old.

They've offered him a bowling field.

Bowling field?

All of them, with tenants and everything else, they won't go.

So their interest is not in the plate.

They'll say everything is going on.

They're trying to get a job on confrontation.

This has been satisfied.

They got it at the court today.

The murderer arrested 110 of them.

He was sent to jail.

He did?

Yeah.

Yeah, he had the Washington Police do it, but they were on his ground.

Not on the ground, but on the interesting ground of disturbing the peace.

Not disturbing the peace.

Not disturbing the peace, no.

Disturbing justice.

But I don't think that they're going to make any changes.

Yeah, I can fix it.

You don't think some people still respect them?

Well, what about veterans?

I don't think they do.

Well, like I said, if Randy looked at people, and two of them were up on top of each other, then they were like, yeah, they're up there.

Or did they look at Randy?

Yeah.

You'll be asked about it.

Let me say that it would be helpful, I think, in all of your answers tomorrow, if you would, it would be very helpful to say that we've talked about this and that, as a matter of fact, the President respects the right of dissent, you know, and that we want a peaceful demonstration, that we, you know, a little of that, but on the other hand,

If you can't do that.

I think I might rise to the defense of the court.

As an attorney general, I'd say we respect the right of dissent, of course, in the watching and in the listening to the comments that have been made.

But I am very concerned about the disrespect to the court of the United States, particularly the United States.

Show that through my disrespect to the Supreme Court.

That's another idea, too.

The Supreme Court has been very good to the misdecisions.

And you can say, Supreme, that we, that is, that the President, the Congress is one thing.

The Supreme Court.

Are you ready for me?

Yes.

I'm crying.

I don't want to.

All senators have a vote on whose cards.

I don't know, Mr. Carter.

There are only three today, so...

Yes, sir.

And then I think on the trip, I think too, I think Taft's idea isn't too bad, that after all, what are we really talking about?

We are making progress, we are moving down the road, as I won't imagine about the Paris negotiations.

We're still,

We are still, the negotiating road is still open.

We want to keep it open as long as we can, although of course it will eventually close.

You never know what will actually be surprising to me.

I may ask you mostly about Vietnam arms.

No, I think that's the thing, to keep saying, like we're getting out, we're doing all this.

Matter of fact, I said to the people I talked to at night, occasionally, you know, if we wanted to do it, we couldn't do it much faster.

We're talking about 14,000 tickets, that's about 500 a day.

How can you get 500 people?

That's enough.

500 people is a shipload of people.

That's a lot of airplanes to fly.

Actually, you know that we're really talking at, it's really at the rate of approximately a division of a month.

Isn't it?

At a rate of...

But good luck.

Because of the chance to go up in the 1st Marine Division, that's good.

That's good.

I think that point was good, too.

Good.

Well, I'm sorry to interrupt.

He also said that you won't have a chance to look into this, but he said his experience and

I think most of us, well, a lot of us build up, and he says his experience is here and there, but he says he couldn't speak much for the Jewish girls over there.

I think we're going to see everybody very old.

Yeah, yeah.

They'll be hanging out there.

There's an awful lot of old people, and the young girls are out picking boots and the rest.

But if you go up to the Golden Heights, where you will take this, I'll show you the boots that they can show you.

You know, where those people live, these little holes in the shell for so many years.

That's why they have to keep the Golden Heights.

They're nice people.

I like them.

I wish they'd tell you this.

They're nice people.

But the Israelis here are going to be very impressed.

They're much more attractive than the American Jews.

Oh, they're not a separate white bunch.

You will find them strong, vigorous.

They're like a beast.

Yeah, they're a remarkable people.

But very old.

But old in Tel Aviv.

But if you can get out of the city, you'll see that these young Jewish guys in Israel, they're terrific.

Yeah.

It was like the old Bible meeting, you know, cutting off the heads of their enemies.