Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 488-024
Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1971 at 4:57 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Woods, Rose Mary; Bull, Stephen B.; Rogers, William P.; Bobst, Elmer H.; White House photographer; White House operator; Ehrlichman, John D.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/488-024

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:07] Now, I'll be sure to get them.
[1:12] very effective defense of our withdrawal program with Vietnam veterans this past week from the accounts, from all accounts who were slated
[1:52] Closet.
[2:23] I'm very grateful for the strong support we've given to our revenue sharing program.
[2:48] I realize that your statements have been particularly helpful to me because, not only because you represent, not only because you are the
[2:52] In fact, because you are, you represent one of the nation's greatest cities.
[3:21] People of nation's greatest cities.
[3:22] But also, because of the
[3:31] We are making progress in the Congress.
[5:14] Sorry.
[5:58] I think what's gonna happen is they start...
[6:22] It's hard to be against that.
[6:28] But on the other hand, you see a lot of the bearded weirdos.
[6:38] What do you think?
[6:39] What's your reaction?
[6:40] Oh, I know.
[6:40] I know the drivers and cab drivers and everyone.
[6:43] Well, you just walk around.
[6:45] Tourists who planned and wanted to come to Washington at the time.
[6:49] And then also,
[6:50] television is really doing itself a disservice in my thinking.
[6:59] I think people are getting sick to death seeing nothing on television but those songs.
[7:08] Really?
[7:08] Because they're all available.
[7:08] I heard one week they ran into that fellow, Larry Harry, so much.
[7:10] He was very, very good, they say.
[7:11] Very articulate.
[7:12] He was a full-blown.
[7:12] Well, you know what?
[7:13] He wasn't living.
[7:35] You're gonna be run by a bunch of goddamn rabble.
[7:47] Don't you agree?
[7:47] I certainly do.
[7:50] Is it off here, then?
[7:52] I think he is, so... Because Adam was talking and he wanted to get Trish.
[7:57] She hadn't called me, so I thought I'd talk with her.
[7:58] He asked me whether Trish would buy a nice pin like he got Julie, if you remember.
[8:01] It was a beautiful diamond pin.
[8:03] Trish said one, that she wanted some money.
[8:05] Oh, God, he can't get around it.
[8:12] Uh, she wants, she says to buy that furniture.
[8:16] Well, if I have a furniture to buy her something, he must give her something.
[8:18] No, I don't want her asking.
[8:19] Not mine.
[8:19] Not mine.
[8:19] Oh, Pat, the church told me to save that check for the check.
[8:21] But, gee, if he gives her that side check, then it's a...
[8:24] He paid a lot for Julie's pin, I know.
[8:25] Oh, yes.
[8:31] or, you know, some small thing.
[8:47] She didn't want him to pick it up.
[8:49] No, no, no.
[8:50] Let her pick it.
[8:50] There are ways that you can do it.
[8:51] It really can't be.
[8:51] I hope you're right, though.
[8:52] I've got to sit around here.
[8:52] They'll see through this horrible attitude of the television.
[8:57] The way they get tired is they get tired of campaigns, which are not...
[9:06] They do get tired of seeing the runoff rallies.
[9:11] They want people to be there to help refer them, but it's nice to turn that on.
[9:14] They're tired when they go home.
[9:17] Yeah, like when I spoke to the Chamber of Commerce, they were pleased because I told them things were going to be better.
[9:19] Also, they were pleased because I said these damn welfare people, they didn't work here to make any welfare.
[9:23] That's right.
[9:24] These kids who were sitting around in the parks and looking like bums...
[9:27] Well, they wouldn't have had to bet off his parents or the Communist Party or somebody who weren't giving them money to keep them going.
[9:37] They had to get out of America.
[9:41] They just wouldn't be able to do all that.
[9:42] And I already agreed to fight for college.
[9:49] Yeah, that's right.
[9:49] That's very interesting.
[9:51] You have some interesting rhetoric about it from people.
[9:52] Of course.
[9:54] Beautiful.
[9:57] Even in his past, his crime.
[10:08] One thing that was kind of interesting was the very interesting play that the little, well, there's a little dead boy in the other one.
[10:20] He's a cute little guy.
[10:21] They didn't use the best picture, but when he was smiling, it was very cute.
[10:22] There's a lot of comment about that.
[10:24] That was very good.
[10:25] With the little dog.
[10:25] And...
[10:25] Terry, it's your horse, isn't it?
[10:28] Terry, it's your horse, yeah.
[10:29] He told me that he was asking me a little bit about what you were like, and then he said... Was he your own man?
[10:34] Yes.
[10:35] Well, I think he saw the little boy, and he saw also the little girl, you know, yesterday, the little cystic fibrosis child.
[10:41] And he said this little child was, he said he remarked how great he was as a boy, and then he said the little girl was so frightened, you know, so passionate.
[10:51] Well, this is, you know, I said, nobody, a lot of people never believe me when I say that the president's basically shy.
[10:59] He put himself in that child's place.
[11:03] He knew how she felt.
[11:05] And he said, well, he really did, because he said it was just marvelous.
[11:08] Before long, she was just relaxed and had a good picture.
[11:13] Later on, I went to see me, and she was a cute little person.
[11:16] Yes, music mentioned, and that's why you said that.
[11:17] But the little boy wasn't real.
[11:27] Please be seated.
[11:30] I will thank you very much.
[12:01] That's it.
[12:39] I don't want to argue any harder because I'm in the wrong room.
[12:56] We use the other room for the booze.
[12:57] Well, I had a long meeting before we met with you with my domestic counsel.
[12:59] And I told them, I don't know if they told you, I got some tea.
[13:00] They said, this is T. Monson, who is one of the greats.
[13:12] Well, you've been very kind.
[13:21] I told you more about this cancer than anybody else.
[13:23] And this is probably true.
[13:23] Well, yes, it's true.
[13:24] And there are a couple of things that I don't know whether they got around to telling you.
[13:28] One, that you're a server on that committee, if you will.
[13:29] We're setting up a...
[13:38] was one that you liked.
[13:40] Did they mention a man that they were taking on for this program?
[13:43] What's his name?
[13:45] No, to run the cancer thing.
[13:49] He's a guy that you... What the heck is his name?
[13:52] He's...
[14:23] Now, there is a man, apparently, that you've known very well, that they are the best man to run.
[14:42] I told them to run the thing.
[14:43] You didn't get a chance to.
[14:44] You don't know who we're talking about yet.
[14:46] They didn't mention any names.
[14:50] See, I came here because the leaders in this town,
[15:09] one article to 150 newspapers, and the returns of yesterday, the first day, were 200,000 telegrams to the Senate.
[15:43] I don't know what you mean just to be right.
[15:46] Zero.
[16:19] how I fit in.
[16:29] I had put Huff in the room to resign.
[16:33] She's president.
[16:34] I had developed that company.
[16:35] Actually, I did first for her.
[16:37] Now, then it became known to Albert Lasker and Eric Johnson.
[16:39] You remember the Eric Johnson?
[16:40] Very personable pal.
[16:42] Oh, sweet guy.
[16:43] And they worked on me to become the head of New
[16:54] bonds, which I still have.
[16:59] My service is then going back from the beginning of the war to the present time.
[17:09] And I... That's right, I respect you.
[17:09] That's right.
[17:10] The bonds, they were one way.
[17:12] God knows it's a good thing I put into it.
[17:13] So, what club was that we met at that time?
[17:15] It was a spring league club.
[17:17] Was that a spring league?
[17:18] Yeah.
[17:18] So, I finally decided,
[17:30] Can't breathe.
[18:00] Now, this is a new cause.
[18:04] Don't sit back.
[18:44] once in the inflation in New York.
[18:48] Today, in New Jersey, there's 30,000 of the type of the top of the inflation in New Jersey.
[19:24] Within a couple of weeks, I'm chairman of the executive committee.
[19:48] and the tobacco company threw me main thing, although he hates my guts, because I threw him out.
[19:55] Murphy was another, he was the head of the Rockefeller
[20:28] There's only one room in Empire State.
[20:34] So out of that, with 40-year-old women, as the Army throughout the United States, 40,000, not 40, and a commander, a woman, in the headquarters, we have today 2,500,000 workers educated, trained, going from house to house each year
[20:57] doing what I told them to do, talk about cancer, give your knowledge to people, what they should do to send danger signals before you ask them for money.
[21:11] I said, what do you
[21:20] I collected $5 million in 1945, hitting the campaign.
[21:25] I have them on outside aid.
[21:29] And outside aid the next year, $7,500.
[21:34] Then I eliminated that and ran it with the committee of our own.
[21:40] And still, step by step, after 10 years on the committee, campaign and giving
[22:11] They're letting now about $70 million a year.
[22:16] And I think I told you that I made 12 speeches in Europe.
[22:26] Yeah, I told you that, yeah.
[22:27] And I came back and I decided these people, they want to do something, they will have to do it.
[22:44] that I put up myself, and we've got over 25 scientists and people involved with cancer.
[22:59] And we got to an annual meeting, and before we got through, we were seated and having the board of directors go bigger.
[23:05] They had to discipline me for three years, you see.
[23:06] So we had the affiliation.
[23:07] We have 78 countries and about 140 societies that are affiliated with America getting to
[23:14] and receiving lives all over the world.
[23:22] I've spoken in Tokyo, in Bigaroo, in Athens, in Rio, in Venezuela, Mexico, I mean, in Kansas City.
[23:35] Now, I said to these gentlemen upstairs,
[24:39] and then you get something done.
[24:44] I'll give you two examples.
[24:46] This is back in the 20s, just then.
[24:49] What's the name of that doctor?
[25:24] California, he, I forget, we have a drink somewhere or whatnot.
[25:30] But he has to correspond with me.
[26:19] And Mike DeBakey, who is also a close friend of mine.
[27:04] High one day, 1930.
[28:09] as they found out with the cost, the sum of small and little parties and say, how much taxes have been paid on cigarettes during these years.
[28:22] And they need to have it.
[29:32] My attention has been paid to this subject before, but no one has done anything about it.
[29:40] But it's my intention today to have this meeting approve of a plan which should prove
[30:02] to defend me.
[30:04] And he said, Mr. Bush is not out of order.
[30:08] I have already written on this stuff and I have data.
[30:32] I told them, I said, we are collecting money from the public of the United States, and we owe them every good information we can give them that's going to keep them from getting cancer.
[30:42] And certainly this is one.
[30:45] And I think very strongly that it's going to be proven that there's a relationship.
[30:51] So I appointed a committee, and then assigned to the committee, and then an implementation
[31:04] non-smokers, and we had three control groups.
[31:10] Those they would have to cancel at work.
[31:20] And those, we had two men from Yale, statisticians.
[31:23] We hired one of the students with the drank song.
[31:26] And even after the first year,
[31:35] communication.
[31:38] Third year, without doubt, everybody's sufficient.
[31:41] All the information the department has, everything throughout the world has come from my working group, and we're still doing it.
[31:48] Now, this thing in itself would, in my opinion, be one of the great accomplishments of the American Catholic Society.
[31:57] It would never have come to me through the
[32:04] It is a sort of individualistic project.
[32:10] But I have a room.
[32:13] And I determined to sit there and do it.
[32:16] And I made it come into being.
[32:20] Now, they are totally 55,000.
[32:22] If you smoke a pack a day, your checks will cancel longer, 14 times.
[32:28] A non-smoker.
[32:29] You smoke two packs, it goes up to about 20, and so on.
[32:33] However, we also
[32:38] So we kept track of coronaries.
[32:43] And today, what hard societies usually are, are finding coronary, back in the day, you would have about two to three times the chance of a coronary against a lung smoker.
[32:56] If you smoke with that today, you can go up to 10, 12, 14 times.
[33:21] because science worked almost as one when they hit it properly, you know.
[33:28] And so, now let me go to another thing, which I think is extremely important.
[33:35] I have kept very close control of the research.
[33:39] No research had been ever done in cancer until I started it in 1945.
[33:44] I mean, on any scale.
[33:46] Individual institutions must
[34:06] We thought we did
[34:31] either I'd come to Washington or I'd come to New York.
[34:41] And I found after a year or so that this is not working at all.
[34:45] Their interest was lax, and it was a secondary thing.
[34:47] So we took it onto ourselves to handle gut-competent people, and we fell out of it.
[35:44] We could, uh, we could, uh, how many of them are those?
[35:53] There are, there are 12.
[35:55] There are 12 teams, huh?
[35:55] Uh, why don't we just delete them all?
[36:40] I said, let me tell you what has happened.
[36:43] You, your dean, has taken everything that might be related to cancer, as you're doing now, and have been doing right along, and have put it in a bundle, and he has asked for $175,000 for something not new, but something he's been doing.
[37:03] How can we find the cause of cancer, of a cure, by going along the lines you're doing?
[37:22] every dollar that the American Cancer Society gave for research probably
[38:08] Your men who go out in the field and to determine the quality of the research and so on, they haven't the knowledge.
[38:18] And they're not dedicated.
[38:21] They're almost flippant in their replies to you when you ask them as I ask them.
[38:24] What competence?
[38:26] What do you mean by competence?
[38:29] What competence in that research organization?
[38:30] I don't know.
[38:30] Well, that's on the panel.
[38:33] We don't know what you mean.
[38:34] Who has it?
[38:35] What does he know about cancer?
[38:45] with no particular outstanding accomplishment in NIH with the, they have spent now well over a billion, I don't know, a billion, I have no more, I can't be certain.
[39:00] Nothing that they can point to.
[39:31] which they've done well, and in medical education, which they have done well, but they've been using cancer money for these two things and not for research in cancer.
[39:43] I would say 75% has been for the time to get up there to the top.
[40:08] I had an entire meeting in Washington because it took up too much time, a couple of days.
[40:15] But in New York, I have.
[40:19] And here's the way that it should be run.
[40:23] First of all, it should be open to the public.
[40:27] It should be visible, what is being done.
[40:30] The public should know, basically, by the tremendous
[40:38] I heard it.
[40:40] It was resounding.
[40:42] Because it means something to everybody.
[40:45] There's no controversy about it.
[40:47] It's the one thing that's not controversial at all.
[41:12] They don't send it to intelligence.
[41:39] and they're not too old, and who are dedicated, and call their shots.
[42:22] I'm not the father.
[42:29] I'm the father who put it into real action.
[42:36] Do you know, do you, have you ever sat down and talked to this fellow captain to judge him to see what he's like?
[42:39] I know what happened.
[42:40] I know, let me ask you to do that.
[42:41] I want to take a look at it.
[42:42] We'll have a look at it.
[42:42] That's what I'm just bringing.
[42:43] I'm going to hang here for a minute.
[42:44] Have a seat upstairs.
[42:51] He was here yesterday.
[43:02] He wants his job after retirement.
[43:03] I don't know why.
[43:05] Oh, he doesn't have it.
[43:06] But, uh, the manager, he always has a deal with the manager.
[43:08] He just makes a hell of a lot of planning.
[43:09] It takes a business man.
[43:09] It's a little dustiness to lay out a plan.
[43:10] You should be laid out exactly as I laid out our plans.
[43:13] And we've done very well.
[43:16] I was 61 years of age when I found out.
[43:37] This is going to move you about a billion-fold, a hundred-and-a-half-fold or 50-million-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-thousand-th
[44:33] That's a new kind of, uh, that's a paperweight.
[44:50] We're in a presidential paperweight with the seat of a million and a half million people.
[44:53] And here's, here's the, uh, here's the timeline.
[44:54] Now you've got everything you can get in them.
[44:55] Good Lord.
[44:55] Come on, here's the keychain.
[44:55] Uh, come in a minute, John, because, you know, John, John, let me, let me just talk to you about the fact that these people I got to see in a couple minutes here.
[45:02] I've got a different case in New York.
[45:13] This will take a minute.
[45:16] I just want to get a couple of points across.
[45:19] John, consider that I do feel strongly about it.
[45:20] First, that I hang out with Dr. Cross earlier.
[45:23] First, I do not have the confidence in NIH to define assets.
[45:31] I think you can show any significant breakthrough they've made.
[45:43] I'd like to see it.
[45:44] Now, I don't think they've made many.
[45:46] Now, the second point, but anyway, I want to take a look at that before we go too far on that.
[45:50] The second point is...
[47:11] Ah, well, I think
[47:37] the point is that, and I'm not sure we should understand, but also we've got to look at the track record of other money that has been poured in there.
[47:55] What the hell becomes of it?
[47:56] How much of it goes to who we have?
[48:00] How much of it goes to the organization running?
[48:01] I really do want to harder to take an attitude.
[48:08] I heard that column here.
[48:45] It will not work.
[48:48] That I know.
[48:49] I know.
[48:50] I know.
[48:50] I know.
[48:52] I know what else happened previously.
[48:58] And I just want you to just, I think if you take a look at these and put them online, it will be worth it.
[49:02] I mean, Albert can see this all the time.
[49:06] Unless, you know, he's going back to California.
[49:09] What is he, a doctor?
[49:10] He's a, he's a,
[49:24] Yeah.
[49:35] Yeah.
[49:39] Yeah.
[49:45] Yeah.
[49:50] Yeah.
[50:09] Well, wait a minute.
[50:12] What do you think we're gonna do?
[51:25] about, uh, research and smoking.
[51:44] Well, it's almost like I'm destroying it.
[51:45] You know, in that case, it's kind of something out of the chin of your face, right?
[51:46] It's more a relation to the, uh, the cigarettes that crack up.
[51:48] Well, I don't think it's, uh, in order to create impressions, uh, something can be done when there's an individual, when an organization can respond to the individual.
[51:51] That's right.
[51:51] And we do it like this.
[51:52] Right.
[51:52] Right.
[51:52] Well, we like your, your outlook, too.
[51:53] Yeah.
[51:53] Do you want to stop by C. Rose?
[51:56] Oh, you saw her, right?
[52:02] I didn't know you were doing a track like that, Spock.
[52:03] Isn't that a bit...
[52:04] I don't know.
[52:04] You saw her, right?
[52:04] I didn't know you were doing a track like that, Spock.
[52:05] Isn't that a bit...
[52:06] I don't know.
[52:06] You saw her, right?