Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and POWs

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Yeah, this is the last one.

I guess we've got it.

Yeah, well, this is our issue.

We had a congressional happenstance to open up our stuff.

We already done it one day, and we'll get this, hold this as one of the open options.

I think that thing today was a hell of a good operation.

Working in, and obviously you did, as to what we talked about this morning, I think the Rio Grande High School should have done a dead ass speech if we hadn't had those four examples I worked in.

Particularly the Rio Grande High School was exactly the way they did the demonstration this weekend.

Just talk about, it sounded like you were going to talk about the demonstrations that there's a lot of high school and college students coming to Washington this time of year.

And then you talked about the real thing in high school.

It couldn't have been better.

You know, you could get the lines in that speech.

Oh, the lines are excellent, but they're cold.

Yeah.

Because the lines didn't get the cheers.

Well, because they aren't written.

I know.

I told you that Sapphire cannot write.

He's an intellectual writer.

In fact, he's like Christ.

I don't have the time, Bob.

Well, you do notice I wrote the cheer lines, and my dad lives.

Yeah.

But he got a couple standing ones.

They were good.

I had to change one or two.

But the point is that in the countries where everything's supposed to be free, there is no freedom.

And there's a bunch of little ones like that.

They're not just damn good.

They're very good.

You notice that example, and then the example of traveling around the world and what is afraid of the United States, the example of how the hell do we give 10 million, millions of dollars to Romania, millions of dollars to Peru, 9 million, it's a great example.

It's happening, isn't it?

That's what we're saying, isn't it?

How do we go from 3 million to 9 million because of what people produce?

You see, that's the kind of government you've just got to get pricing.

I just want you to write it.

You've got to get examples.

Now, those examples, they all hang out.

See?

They have to make equipment, but keep going to history to get some others.

I get to saying that I hope on this thing, on lodges, that you'd be sure to say that this makes it damn clear I don't agree with all that stuff.

Because God Almighty, I mean, some of that crap, well, they don't go through universality, but...

Oh, it's not very good.

I think it's the best that you could expect.

Oh, yeah, true.

Large colored me on the way in, and he said he's developing some awfully strong feelings on the POWs, and he wants to talk to you.

No.

This is his way of saying he wants to bug out, but I told him he had to have another time.

You were terribly busy.

I'm seeing Duprena at noon, and I wanted to check with you before I did.

I believe, Mr. President...

that your instinct on Saturdays said I'd run the door.

It would be tough to help yourself.

So what, uh, you can't run.

No, I, what I was... Let me come to a coffee.

Seems to me...

First, I think it can do with that spelling that it gave us yesterday that we ought to hit those sites in North Carolina.

I think we ought to think about it very carefully.

Why think?

I mean, I don't think you need to think about it.

My point is, you've got to show right after these demonstrations that we're not going to be affected by it.

I mean, a lot of them.

I mean, if you watch this stuff in the cave, we're not going to be affected by it.

I mean, all we're going to do is demand.

So you tell them to just do that.

Protect your reaction.

Call out, protect your reaction.

But let them have it.

Right.

You understand?

This is the time to do it.

That's the only thing I understand.

Mr. President, I'm thrilled by it.

What I saw this weekend, Mr. President, this country, New York,

That's what I mean.

If we don't do it, no one will do it.

The main part is just we're going to crack them this week to protect the reaction, but I can get all three sites out.

I mean, I don't know whatever is militarily feasible.

You know, I know...

We're protecting Americans with troubles.

Second point is this.

We do need something.

I need something that Bruce can say when he opens Thursday.

Now, we've got to get something that he can say.

I don't know what he'll say, but what I mean is we've got two of those stupid co-general and Jackie S. Miller from Iowa who are joining in this.

We'll end the war nine months after the POW.

Well, of course, they've got them here in our hallmark.

They're anyway, but the point is... How's that tougher than we will be?

What?

The Congress of Congress?

They want the Congress of POWs released first.

I think that we ought to have Bruce make a cosmetic offer on POWs, which we haven't published.

He said we will.

He's going to make it on his manufacturer's association one day.

But what else are you thinking of?

Anything.

Just for the first one.

Why don't we know they're going to turn down?

You know what I mean?

So you could say, well, I was thinking of the, you could think of something like this, that we will, we are prepared to do it.

Uh, we are prepared to discuss, uh, discuss a deadline so that we can discuss B.O.W.

We're prepared to.

That would give away, does it?

No, I'm not sure.

I'm, I'm, I, that would, that you should do on television, if anyone does it.

Well, then, we're prepared.

Well, put it in that, put it in the context of what we, uh, what we have said.

We're prepared to, uh,

Then separate it out.

Then make the POWC's fire.

That we can do.

Make that on Thursday.

That we can do.

He says, we will separate those things out.

Even when I do it later, you're going to do it privately, of course.

You're going to give them the date.

He's not going to give them the date.

If he, however, says we're prepared to give the date headline, that's exactly what I'm trying to tell them.

And then, if you want, you can go this route, but it would, that would really look like yielding to the demonstration.

Then you should do it.

Why let him do it?

Uh, but, I'm not going to do the thing.

We're going to discuss it.

Yeah, but they'll accept.

They'll accept that.

Okay.

Well, certainly.

Cease fire?

Well, I think, Mr. President, that's such a big step to take that.

at an ordinary session in the middle of a demonstration.

We can say, yeah, I'll try to have something, please.

Something that they can turn down, but something where, and let's just do it, I'll give it a scowl, and I'll build the hell out of this thing.

That's the way I want to do it.

We can have some unilateral withdrawals for Christmas weekend.

I'm really tired of the law, anyway.

Goddamn it.

I sent him over there barking around with the Pope.

He comes in here on this thing, and now he wants to take a trip to Vietnam.

Goddamn it.

Leave me alone.

He's never come in and showed any.

He didn't.

This was when he was here last time.

He didn't say anything about what the hell I did.

No one ever sees that.

Why doesn't he stand up a little?

I'm going to do this goddamn meeting.

I'm going to get out of there.

Absolutely.

I mean, the idea is heavy.

Let me tell you why you don't have to deal with everything.

It's purely a delaying action, and you've got to realize that we have got this

to keep them from running off.

The POWs may endorse this tactic.

You understand that?

It's too tantalizing for them.

Bruce, we've got to indicate that we are at least doing something on POWs.

Actually, Mr. President, this Miller thing, unless he's changed it, isn't such a bad one.

From that point of view, they first have to release them in a year after the three weeks go up.

It used to be a year, or maybe it's changed into nine months now.

But that means they have to give up all their prisoners first.

But we did almost buy that.

Well, not yet.

I mean... You see, as soon as we've made the offer to them, Mr. President, we know whether they'll buy it or not, then we can play it any way we want.

No.

Right now, we've got to put a stopper in the POW structure.

That's the only thing that worries me at this time.

It's the only thing.

I don't think everybody around here is aware of that problem.

But I'll have the success.

If those POW wives start running around and come out of this Capitol like veterans, you're in real trouble.

Let me talk to the leader of these wives.

I know her.

She was on national television the other day.

She was very good.

She is very fond of me.

And I think I quieted them down.

I know, but they're still worried.

Oh, he does talk to them every day, you know.

They're worried about you.

Yeah.

They're already suggested that I'm for you to use that again.

Well, you've got to get it back now.

You've got to use it again soon.

Well, they always advance, so I'll give them, uh, give them a couple of extra marks.

There are, there are ladies there, as well.

Yeah.

Um, they've got to watch their way outside and walk around this house.

Don't, uh, pick him up, is that correct?

Andrew Whitehead is, uh, at the, uh, table that's at your right, sir.

All right, thank you.

I'll be right in, uh, just about a second.

No, under three minutes.

Now, wait, before we leave, do you have advice?

I'm just saying that I understand.

I'm just looking for a kid.

Uh, no, I don't give a goddamn.

I don't want him to, to, to check.

But, uh, but don't assume...

When you talk to them, Colson is very close to you.

There are a lot of member groups.

Colson and Hughes, be sure you talk to them, too, to see what groups are ready to take off, to see that they're holding firm.

We don't assume that if you talk to one, you get them off.

Because there are about 18 that would like us to have veterans.

We've got 90 percent of them, 95 percent of them.

Five percent of them are going to give you hell.

I think we can hold it, but I think we've got to get it to them.

And if we can make some kind of an offer, or even tell them that we are going to make an offer, probably.

We've got to get some assurance, Henry.

I'll talk to the wife.

What I have to do... Don't assume no one will know.

She says one minute.

No, but I want to talk and get her advice, because I trust her.

And then I'll do...

She's tough enough as it is.

I don't want to give the impression that she's easy.

But she's been... Let me talk to her first.

She was on national television the other day.

And she was pretty firm.

But we've got to have something new in the viewer's eyes first.

It's got to sound new, that's all.

Just have Bruce put something on, some novelty new, you know, so that he just doesn't say, will you repeat our October 7th offer?

Take the October 7th offer, refurbish it, take out the volume, and put a little something on it.

I will have the suggestion for your first thing in the morning.

Yes.

And then we'll let Bruce present, and then we'll build it up in advance as he's going to make an offer with P.O.W.Y.s.

And then say, I offer to do this, and for example, include it and make it a comprehensive offer.

We turn over the 10,000 people, we do all these things, you see?

That's what we have to do.

That's the only thing we have to work through.

I don't give a damn about the Congress, Dems, or anything else, but I've got to keep P.O.W.Y.s from taking off.

They have reoccurrence.

The Congress could pass out so goddamn fascinating things.

I know this Congress.

On that issue, they would not preserve us on the others, but they deserve us on that issue.

See?

Well, I'll do my best by tomorrow to...

Okay.

Well, you know, Matthew, we have to keep the package so that we haven't...

particularly while these demonstrations are going on, because Hanoi isn't as reading these same demonstrations as they always have.

And on the breathing, what I thought I was going to tell him is that you are developing serious doubts whether these talks are ever going to get anywhere.

That as far as the summit is concerned, we've now talked about it for a year.

We are not going to raise it again.

When they are ready to have it, they should give us a day.

But the president, the president's not going to make other plans.

On that period, we had to plan for almost in advance.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

On the other things, I think all of us, we should speak to our opposition.

We've gone very far.

and there's no, they may give, it's too absurd for them to tell us that we have to tear down a building and they can keep it.

They're saying, I'm sorry, we should write it out and don't talk when we read the address.

You'll say that's, are you going to say it's negotiated?

I'm going to say that they can raise it, but our position will be, I was going to add to the note saying our position will be that for the United States, it will be based on the system and the process of deployment.

That's right.

Okay, good.

And then he turns it on.

That's good.

You ready now?

Yeah.

Okay, let's do it.

All right, all right.

I'll do this.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and POWs

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on April 26, 1971

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