Conversation 491-031

TapeTape 491StartWednesday, May 5, 1971 at 12:23 PMEndWednesday, May 5, 1971 at 12:43 PMTape start time04:58:26Tape end time05:15:36ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Tower, John G.;  Lee, Robert D. ("Bob");  Lee, Jill;  Blasé  , A. J. ("Bob");  Moore, Richard A.;  Bull, Stephen B.;  Atkins, Oliver F. ("Ollie")Recording deviceOval Office

On May 5, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, John G. Tower, Robert D. ("Bob") Lee, Jill Lee, A. J. ("Bob") Blasé, Richard A. Moore, Stephen B. Bull, and Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:23 pm to 12:43 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 491-031 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 491-31

Date: May 5, 1971
Time: 12:23 pm - 12:43 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John G. Tower, Robert D. ("Bob") Lee, Jill Lee, A. J. ("Bob") Blase, and
Richard A. Moore; members of the press were present at the beginning of the meeting.

     Introductions

     Goodwill Industries

     [General conversation]

             -Lapel pin
     [Camera noise]

     [General conversation]
     Presentation of gifts
          -Tie clasp

     Goodwill Industries

     Press

Lee, Mrs. Lee, Blase, and Moore left at 12:28 pm.

[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was prepared under court order from
December 1978 through March 1979 for Special Access 8, Ronald V. Dellums, et al. v. James M.
Powell, et al., No. 71-2271. The National Archives and Records Administration produced this
transcript. The National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]

[End of transcript]

     President's visit to Lyndon B. Johnson Library
           -Invitation to Tower
           -President's schedule
                 -Florida
           -Ben F. Barnes
           -President's schedule
                 -Plane
           -Johnson
                 -Library

     Texas drought
          -[Preston Smith]
          -Clifford M. Hardin
          -Political impact
          -Administration position

          -Congress
                -Tower's and Robert D. Price's bill
                -Democrats
          -John B. Connally
          -Hardin
          -John D. Ehrlichman
          -Domestic Council
          -Hardin
          -President's possible memoranda
          -Tower's schedule
                -Ehrlichman
                -Price
                -Bill
                      -Federal relief
                      -Loans
                      -Hay
                      -Credit
                      -Small Business Administration [SBA]
                      -President's position

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:28 pm.

     Photograph
          -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins

Bull left at an unknown time before 12:43 pm.

     Decade of service dinner for Tower, May 27, 1971
         -Dallas
         -Possible film clip by President
               -Tape
               -Radio
               -Message

Atkins entered at an unknown time after 12:28 pm.

     Photograph
          -Distribution
                -Texas papers

Atkins left at an unknown time before 12:43 pm.

      Texas drought
           -Rain
           -Crops
           -Cattlemen
           -Texas and Oklahoma
           -New Mexico
           -Ehrlichman's possible call to H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
           -President's conversation with Hardin
           -Democrats
           -Administration's position
                 -Domestic Council
Bull entered at 12:43 pm.

     President's schedule
           -Haldeman

Bull and Tower left at 12:43 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Mr. President, Senator Powell.
Good decision, Mr. Speaker.
Much to me, Mr. and Ms. Roberts, that you've done so many good things.
Congratulations, Mr. Speaker.
The goodwill industry is meant to be here.
They're all working here.
I'm sorry to tell you, Mr. President, but every morning, every week, the first protection is knocked out.
That's a good morning.
It's very small.
It's very small.
Yes.
Yes.
Thank you.
Yeah.
We might give you a little something, but it's like a presidential tie-dye.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, it's fine work, and I just hope that, I know you're going to have some success in the exam, except for the others, is what is important.
We really had a wonderful day.
I don't think this would be very helpful.
I'm very sure that we, uh, I think we might even come up with this test, but I'm a rogue.
We, we do have a bridge.
Until then, we'd be ready to go out.
I was going to say, we had to make some very tough decisions on this thing.
They made a recommendation, and I approved it, basically, that the Army wouldn't bust these guys some morning.
You know, I would have let them go the week before with the records.
I didn't want to have this country
And they couldn't have, you know, a bonus march, legally recalls.
So I said, don't touch it.
Leave them alone.
We literally played that line on these people.
But I thought that this bunch, because they were going to engage in violence and so forth, maybe it was to bust them.
So we moved in on that thing and busted them.
So we moved in on that thing and busted them.
And then yesterday, the whole program of the mass arrests, this is the only thing to do.
These people never gave me a chance to get the hell off the street.
They were told, where are you?
Are you being arrested?
And when they did, they arrested me.
Now that sets an example for the colleges.
It sets an example for universities.
It sets an example for our police forces.
Nobody was hurt.
They didn't beat anybody up.
You know what I mean?
I guess one guy hurt me.
when automobile driver ran over a guy who sat and laid down in front of his car.
What do you think?
Yeah, I think so too.
But what's the feeling of your colleagues up there?
I think even the Doves, you know, O. Muskie and Teddy and the rest of them down at the scooter ramp, those demonstrators don't look so good today.
They were embarrassed by it, actually.
hear them disassociating themselves from it.
Don't let them get it.
But we're not going to let them.
We're not going to let them do it, but just keep charging them.
They endorse it.
And none of them keep denying it.
The more they deny it, the more they lose.
You see, they play both ways, right?
They lose both their friends.
That's how it is.
We should deal with it.
We play that thing harder.
Harder than I can.
Let these liberals race a little harder.
Right.
I couldn't fault anything that was done over the last three decades.
A country would not have wanted to relate to the Americans.
Right.
Then you have a man who teased my group and all that.
Oh, yes, sir.
I've never seen somebody this much.
Have you?
I caught him.
I caught him yesterday.
Have you all been there?
and uh ready days jesus christ i mean these are all wall breakers and uh i think that may come to work a little longer i think it's going to yeah i believe that you want to go to of course well i have to do some questions i might get an invitation after a while i've got it yet but i understand i need to get one
I'm not going from here.
I'll tell you why.
I didn't want to be in a position to haul it down the hall of the... Friends of Johnson's.
So I'm going to be in Florida, go over there, and come back.
That's not what we have to do.
We all want to get here.
It's all right.
But you ought to try it.
It's right.
The thing that worries me would be that my prospective opponent might be here and I would not have an invitation and, you know, that sort of thing.
It's good talking to you.
Yes, uh, Johnny Dexter's taking care of that.
Better take care of it.
Your governor- Oh, better take care of it.
But we understand we're on the list to get one that we're supposed to.
Yeah, you see the bars, is there?
I heard it.
If I'm here, I'm not sure they'll be here anymore.
He goes all in.
I think we're going to have to do more.
I've got my staff working on it, and I'm going to make some recommendations to the heart, and I think he ought to go all out on this.
Everything that he's able to do, because good Lord, Mr. President, this could cost us the state politically.
And, uh,
Therefore, if we call down there and ask for something, I hope it'll be forthcoming, because it's about the city.
When will those people?
The question is, I think we've got to go to Congress, though, now.
We want to get a bill in, and we're going to try to get that acted on.
Then we can say to the Democrat Congress, try to get their feet on a real relief bill.
But I think...
All right.
Let me tell you, we ought to go to Linda Walker.
I don't think so.
You've got full support here, and I've told her.
And, uh, and commonly it's what you do.
It's hard as hell.
We'll do anything you want.
I'm good, but you've got to... Because I'm getting hurt right now.
Well, who are you talking to on it?
Well, we have been talking to Hart.
All right.
Tell you what I want you to do.
You better talk to, uh...
No.
You see, I supported the administration on not preparing to make a disaster.
Anything we can do within present legal limits, I hope, will be done.
Well, if they think it has anything else to do with it.
Okay.
Well, I mean, it's hard to just won't get too queasy about really pushing what it can do right through the limit.
Everything it comes to let it do, I'd say.
All right.
What does it do?
It provides for some of the things that are in the major disaster, under the major disaster bill, but not all of them.
Loan forgiveness, for example, small loans, and a little more fee, pay relief, that kind of thing.
And long-term loans.
as a credit cash flow is invested, and also would provide for heating businesses that are not maybe directly engaged in agriculture, but who are affected by it.
For example, a retail merchant suffers because nobody comes to his store and buys anything in this situation.
In other words, give SBA a little bit more flexibility in dealing with some of the businesses that are affected.
See, if a hurricane comes in and blows his store down, his business is interrupted.
He gets to it, but if the farmer, because he can't
What I would like to do when I go from here is to say that I'm disgusted with this, and you need to express your concern about it.
You can say that on the Senate floor when I introduce my bill, but without saying that you endorse the bill or anything, but you have expressed your concern about the draft.
You can say that I can express my concern, that I ask for any recommendations that you have for any further action to be taken, that I have instructed the domestic council staff to work with you in any way
Thank you for one other little favor, and if it's something you can't do, fine.
We would take a, uh, we can have an extradition now of, uh, the points that we want.
I'll have you say it in the street.
I'm May the 27th.
I'm having my decade of service dinner in Dallas, honoring me for 10 years.
I'm inviting you to meet me at the beach.
You can do a 30-40 second movie film clip that we could do.
Thanks.
I'd like your appreciation for my decade of service.
Is that doable or is that...
It's fine.
It's no problem.
Thank you.
I'll write it to you.
Something you could do, you could add to it, or we could...
I think sometimes the best thing to do is to take a radio and put a voice right on, you know, here's a message, rather than reading a message.
I'll send a message, but I'll read the message and then just say, here's a message from the United States.
It's now been possible with all the...
a little film on my leg, on my activity.
If it's doable.
As far as I have a handful of dried dust in my hand.
All right.
We've got both sides.
Texas papers.
Why don't you give me one step this side and the other side.
Well, you see, already, even if it rains buckets full now, a lot of the crops, all that kind of thing, a lot of these gasses will hurt right down to the foundation, even color in the foundation hurts.
So this is really very, very serious business these gasses.
And that's it.
Yes, Texas and Oklahoma, the hardest hit, New Mexico's hit to a reasonable extent as well.
And these are three states that you should carry next time, and therefore we want to make sure that they feel the administration's done everything that's feasible.
I'll give it a shot.
You...
but we can't screw around we're gonna have to push it more because the trip down there
The Democrats are sort of turning and saying, well, he came down and looked, and he's still not done enough, you see.
We have to work on that.
And I can say, Dan, that you have instructed your domestic counsel to work with the domestic counsel who are in front of you, who have approaches, who are anti-purchases.
Other actions, murder actions, can be taken to deal with this situation.
Within the law, I mean.
Okay?
Okay.
All right.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Good luck to you.
Out of the way.
Last stop.
The other way.
This way.
She's a pretty girl, this one.