On May 5, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), White House operator, and John W. Dean, III met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:43 pm to 1:13 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 491-033 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
I was talking to Hardin in California about this.
My director says that this drought situation is something that has to be handled with a political eye on it.
And Hardin doesn't really understand that.
So we do take charge of it to be sure that Hardin, some bill against him.
and so forth and uh, but uh,
Who's in charge of it here?
C.S.
Lincoln, isn't it?
He's the sad man.
He's inadequate, Bob.
I need somebody in charge of it who will look at it solely politically.
Flanagan was on it to look at it solely politically.
All right.
He's to get a hell of a lot more political.
We've got to do more of what we're doing.
If we need the legislation, more money, ask for it.
Towers and groups will do it, but you're affecting Oklahoma, Texas, and New Mexico.
At least all three states are involved.
I mean, there's still more concern.
Power went down.
I mean, heart went down.
And the way they played it afterwards is that people said, well, he went down and flipped it over.
He didn't do anything.
You know what I mean?
Well, now he did something.
But you know what?
How the hell would they have believed me?
Now, Flanagan can't follow up you with somebody else on it, will you?
Because it is important, Bob.
It is important.
Now, then, I'm going down to Texas and making a deal with the economy on it, but that isn't right either.
That's not the end on it.
Right.
He doesn't want to get right on it.
But we get Flanagan and them to say, now, what can we do politically?
What can we do to hypo what we're doing?
Tell me about his dinner tonight.
He said, I know you can't come.
He said, well, he asked me if I paid something.
I said, well, that's the one.
I won't do that.
He really didn't get this?
No, he says, I know you can't come.
He said, great.
I'm glad I paid something.
Now, this one, he wanted something.
This one, I have people in here.
He said, great.
And I said, oh, I'll pay.
Oh, he said.
You know, we can sell it at the radio.
They want to tell us.
I just don't think telling us is a good idea.
They want us to make a program or something out of it, but I don't think that's a good idea either.
But understand, it's worth 30 seconds.
I mean, sometimes on this one, to do what is necessary to satisfy.
It is not political to understand.
It's just 10 years of service.
Today, the rights have been on our planet and the dedication of our life.
I don't think he's been invited yet, but he should be.
Johnson should invite him.
He said he invited him.
He's on Johnson's list.
If he hadn't been invited, he would have had a dish and he understood what they were working on, he said.
I mean, what we were going to do is have him, just to give him some visibility in his own way, have him chopper back with you to your plane from the library, and we'd see him quietly get on the chopper early, and we'd ask him to let him have some of the Texas Republic leader types at the plane.
We'll be giving a tour of the library.
Very good.
Very good.
Very good.
Very good.
Hell yeah.
Let's go, thank you.
Let's continue.
You guys have been waiting.
Done anything I just noticed on the record?
Highlights, Ford, Aarons, Colbert, Connell, Abbott, Sykes, Pelley, Wagner, Daniel, and Montgomery, all praise them.
law enforcement, state demonstrators, and criticized media coverage and this whole media coverage.
He did a great job.
He hit Muskie.
He got on the car.
He got on TV.
He did it again on the hill.
And he also put a full-blown committee testimony of the Navy Lieutenant into the record.
Good.
That's good.
Del Cruz has been promoted to Senior Chief Petty Officer.
He was the Chief Petty Officer.
Good.
And he's effective today.
He deserves it.
So, that's that.
Thank you.
Conley raised the thing with John Mitchell.
Mitchell raised it with me.
But maybe we ought to see what we can do on it.
It's way out of that.
But he makes it his point.
He's on this kicking of it.
There's no leadership in Congress on the Democratic side.
And he thinks that if the Democratic leadership
could organize and get together with the Southern people, that they could reorganize and take control of both houses in the Republican leadership.
The Republican get together with the Southern side.
And I heard he thinks that we oughta, that the Attorney General, he thinks the Attorney General is the guy who oughta take, make the move on this with the Republican leadership.
They oughta be talked to on that basis.
And John is intrigued, Mitchell is intrigued with the possibility
But what I thought you might be able to do is get him, get him to board an errands.
I don't know if he wants to do it with Mitchell.
I'll talk to him.
Well, that's what Mitchell then raises.
Well, then maybe you should talk to him.
But I think Mitchell should be here.
Yeah.
I'll talk to Tom when he boards.
I think his parents want to have another meeting today, I guess, on this.
Yeah.
And I have to fight a lot.
OK. We can come in four.
and then the financial thing is fine.
That's okay.
Yeah.
I just want to make him 4.30.
You just want to catch him for a few minutes after the other.
I think 4.30 is better for him.
I have about an hour's, you know, work to go over with him and I don't want to, you know, just as well as he had to rush over here.
I don't know why.
That's a quick deal for them and their department.
He's planning it.
He's put in.
He's worked out.
John wrote a proposal for it.
project on key state unemployment.
He makes the point that we shouldn't just sit back and let the general economic
take care of the economic problems in the key states looking to the .
And California is the prime example, of course, but there are others.
And his thought is to drill through a quick plan here in a couple weeks' worth to see if we can project the unemployment rates, looking at the nations of all the key states, then do a quick study through the NSC system, the impact of the 72 defense budget,
on those, because there are going to be some changes.
And they're not being made with regard to key states.
They're being made in a more substantive way.
regard to inventory or spending programs to see what we can initiate or accelerate without congressional action.
I'm all for move to those states, then evaluate the ones that require legislation but might have some chance of passing and we ought to push on those.
The only thing I can say with regard to the planning expense on that, when you get to the key states,
A massive emphasis on California because it is by far, and the others will all squeal about their unemployment, but they just don't compare with California.
This is what Pete said in Washington.
It's not a key statement.
The question over the White House ain't in Washington.
All right.
Take a key look.
The question reinforced when the first banner hit on that record at LA airport a week ago.
It was LA and the area unemployment is 13-year high, 7.5%.
This is the keystone of the so-called Sunbelt Strategy.
And this is Pete's.
He's also talking about, in addition to that, regarding their interagency group that we had in 70 that makes sure the contracts go to the right places in the right way.
The political way, in other words.
Well, that's what we're planning and all that, but I really want to play a part with defense.
Defense is the problem.
We have to quit screwing around.
We've just got to dump this stuff like this.
I mean, I don't think very hope.
I mean, we've got to hold over enough even in 70.
We've sure got to get a hold of it now.
One thing is we've got to keep involved in this, too.
Because he totally, he sees this totally, very clearly.
He totally, and he can look at every damn thing we spend.
And your doodle bop's got to be done this year.
In order to have any impact on our climate next year.
It's too late to do it next, before you make announcements next year.
Yeah.
Very good idea.
I'm all for it.
He makes that point that you've got to start right now.
The time frame is so short, there may be little that can be accomplished beyond the general accounting object.
However, it may be worth some effort.
Yes, it can be, if you start now.
If you start now, if we can get some decisions made now, if you can start rolling in there six months from now in Canterbury in February, we'll turn it.
Good idea.
I plan to use it.
It's a very good assignment for him.
Well, when someone takes an interest in something like this, it's damn good.
And put it in the others, and don't even screw around.
I mean, some of our other people don't think about it this way, you know what I mean?
They want, they're all straight arrowing in.
I mean, who the hell would want to put up your BNSC system, should they have an inkling of contracts?
Well, there's nothing to do with getting a hold of Packard and saying, I've got them, the contracts are going to go.
You know, that's what I do there, okay?
Rick is procuring them, let's face it.
The Packer just got a proposal to contract base closings, all that sort of thing.
I don't want to get Henry involved, for example, in whether we close a base in Texas or one in California.
That isn't something that's...
It doesn't make any difference where the damn thing is closed.
From a national security standpoint, the main thing is to be sure that everything we do is... That's a good idea.
30 more reports as to whether they're going up on the hill, right?
Yeah, it must be up there by now.
It might not be up there.
30 more, I don't know what's happening on the hill.
Good, good, good.
That's right.
That's right.
We're looking at that, right?
Dean.
That's where it is?
Yeah.
No report yet.
Apparently not.
Well, there's got to be something.
God, this is the time.
12.
On what?
Yeah, 12.
Up to the hill.
What's the situation on the hill?
Are they up there yet?
We will do nothing.
That's the cataclysmic problem.
Are they prepared for it?
Do they have enough personnel or anything?
Have they asked for help from us?
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's fine, that's fine.
We'll just shoot them right there.
That's their problem.
Okay.
Yeah, that's it.
Cool, huh?
.
.
.
.
.
Okay, fine, fine, fine.
I'm supposed to attack the Capitol at 2 o'clock.
There's Jimmy, there's Bob Nagle.
There's Bob Nagle now.
He's gone.
The police are in charge of their attack on the Capitol district.
The police have already come.
Let's see.
Here it's in front.
Okay.
They charged me last night that they should all go to the morning before I wake up.
I wish you leadership, but we have to do that.
No, they, the business people don't really learn.
They say, why the hell don't they clean up and look right?
Yeah, if they did, they'd be far more effective.
Oh, sure, they'd be far more effective.
They're young people, and they look nice, dressed clean, but see, they can't, the people they've got, they can't get to do that.
They're not the kind of people, they're people who wait outside.
If they acted right and so forth, they could put on a hell of an act.
They talk about guerrilla theaters, they ought to put on an act of being, look like human beings, crew cut, nice looking little boys and girls going up and saying, gee, I'm against the war, but my mama is, my papa is, da-da-da-da-da-da.
Screw that, Mitchell over the head, I said 3.30.
3.30?
Yeah, I think it's probably better than that.
I can try to get them out at a reasonable time, 4 o'clock.
I think 4.30.
You may not be able to get Congress on 3.30.
They can't drive it forward.
They can't come the day we do it tomorrow.
There's no word.
It's meeting on or not.
Not tomorrow.
He has a doctor's appointment or something.
I've never tried it.
What do I do?
What do I see in the agriculture?
Tent.
Tent.
What do you want to do to me sometimes other than breakfast?
You know, I could do it, uh, do it tomorrow.
I don't, I go rushing in Friday.
But, uh, Saturday morning, Saturday or Monday, you know, I'd like to see what we can do.
Yeah.
Let's leave the agriculture day for agriculture.
I don't think that's a good idea.
I think Saturday morning is fine.
Saturday morning at 8.30.
It's a good one, Bob.
If Ford has the...
He has on his own side, but whether he can get out.
Eric's the guy that's sort of bridged the Southerners.
You really gotta play those Southerners, or I know all this work, whether there's enough of them.
I think you probably get together and get 40, 50 Southerners.
And he just, he's gotta get the trusted Southerners.
He doesn't have the leaders.
I had to trust and see that the reason that Tad was able to control the Senate in the 81st and 82nd Congresses was because of the members that worked with him.
He understood that Southern River, hell, they all trusted him.
God was in there, nobody would trust God, no.
Three members.
For Howard, it would be much better if he was able to trust him.
Yeah, he'd work for Southern Charity better.
Uh, nobody can trust God, and anybody who knows him would know that they can't trust him.
Yeah, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see, I can't see,
They showed all those pictures of, you know, their high school graduation pictures and all their kids.
And they all looked so beautiful.
And they admired them.
The kid, Trevor, was a good looking blonde kid who had been in the ROTC.
They showed him his ROTC uniform.
They showed him his basketball uniform.
You know, high school, all his high school pictures.
Did it show us college pictures of his hair down over his shoulders?
None of the college pictures.
They did it.
One girl, Kraus came out.
I mean, Kraus.
That's all the pictures.
And they put their parents on it.
Mr. Kraus said every time he put the equipment on, he starts crying.
He'd do it about every couple months just to stir it up.
Is it real that it was a super production?
You had that candlelight procession, ringing the bells.
T.S.
is really a... they, the way they did the veterans thing and that and something.
It's a beautiful production.
It's just spectacularly good musically, deliberately.
It's a comics thing.
I've got no illusions about this.
I have no illusions.
That's the spell that they're doing a job on.
They know exactly how to do it.
They just, they're doing it sensationally well.
How they do the demonstration.
The demonstration, they straight, carry it straight, and have done a lot of what you could do.
A lot of artistic effort into the hand statement.
Let's see.
You've survived it before.
Well, I don't think that will have an impact.
In fact, it will also turn off a lot of people.
That's what it... You think so?
Yeah.
It just...
It was so overdone.
It was so...
I would be surprised if you were a bottle of sentence and nasty letters to us.
We always try to respect you very much, you know?
I don't know.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was...
I would be surprised about that.
Never, I guess.
Our, uh, the press, uh, our, our, our glass, you're doing the, you're doing the, uh, following up with the other one.
You know, it's something we can, we won't do it every time, but it's something we can do.
We should consider doing on investigations.
Well, Buchanan, for instance, has delighted with it on the basis that he was bothered by, he loves all the investigations.
Yeah, but Vietnam having to dominate the press conference and the fact that by coming back with the follow-up when he got the other stuff,
You're not just competent on Vietnam or that you're concerned about it.
You've got this whole range of things you're working on.
It's true.
Know what you're doing about it.
So here's the way to get our story across sometimes in other areas.
So whether the use is whether it's really a waste of time, not a waste of time, but too inefficient a use of time to do a non-televised conference.
Well, maybe this is, oh, you stopped to think we were on the news.
That's it.
Pretty good, huh?
And radio, which is probably pretty good.
Very good on radio and pretty good coverage.
That's a lot of people.
You couldn't have done that on television.
You couldn't have gone on TV again.
You couldn't have gone on TV at that point in time and said you just want to talk about domestic violence.
You had to do it in a sequence you did.
And to be honest, to be honest with the face is better than to have the face reporting.
And they run more.
As you saw, they ran four minutes.
If they were just reporting, they would have run a couple of minutes and enumerated what, in their own words, what you would have done.
This has to apply to this man.
Let's see if I can hold him.
You've got the camera.
Come on.
See if you can do it while I'm capturing.
This week.
This week.
This week.
You've got a picture with regard to CBS, or it's a vicious enemy, and we just kind of fight every bit of the time.
The most effective, the only way I can really fight them is in the Talmudic West Conference.
There's no other way.
That was good.
Can't say they can't run again in another year.
Not that.
No?
Pretty certain.