Conversation 494-004

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Your Glen Campbell did all right last night.

Yeah, he was fine.

Very good.

He doesn't have a problem with me.

I mean, he's better than Cash.

Yeah, Cash has got a little more wholesome than Cash.

Yeah, Cash has got a little bit better.

They're both fine.

But Campbell's a good Glen.

Oh, he's fine.

He's very wholesome.

Good choice for him.

He's very big, around 177.

Must be some good stuff to give him.

Yeah, he is.

The thing is, he's kind of a blind guy.

He's got the...

He doesn't have the flash that most... Oh, he's got it.

He's a completely small cop.

Oh, he doesn't get his command.

Oh, that's right.

Is there anything you want to line up now today?

Nobody's around.

Erwin is here.

Oh yes, he's out.

Apparently he took off yesterday.

He came in today, so he went on the last day.

What do I have to do to get to Cole?

It's a problem.

Yeah, they, they, they, they don't always have it right.

I just said we don't want to put the other one out there Sunday.

Thank you.

And you have set up a procedure.

Now what we're doing on that one is,

ORC didn't want to write quite as strong of a thing as we did.

So we worked out a rewritten thing for their release, which is what we put out.

Then we put a top sheet in.

And then we put a top sheet on it that says the other stuff that says it even tougher.

which is just a cover sheet that we used with the ORC release.

And then we use that as the piece to go to the leaders.

And what we're doing is our whole congressional crew, we're briefing on the significance of this thing.

And then they have the responsibility of hand-delivering, but not just hand-delivering,

meeting with the member, not him delivering to his office, but meeting with the member and pointing out what this poll says to the guy, rather than just saying, here's a poll.

And then we've got enough people.

And then giving each member a dozen copies of this poll and ask him, say, you might want to give this to other people.

But I think, like Jerry Ford, carries that lot of stuff around for stopping and uninsuring us.

The little cover will work through as far and as fast as we can get with them to get that out then.

Let's see what the other one shows.

Yeah.

And I don't think there's much on the other one that can show what it was for the last few minutes, actually.

This is the myth that people want, and it does it very hard, and the cover sheet does it even harder, but we want to offer the virus a consequence.

It just says, pull out poll, mislead.

That's what we're using as the headline.

And then we make the point that highly publicized and widely misinterpreted polls, saying 73% want out by the end of the year.

It is, you know, we can't share it with y'all.

and go to Gallup with this and make the point there.

Right, sir?

Because it is.

We're on summit ground.

We know we're right now.

The first time we did it, I dealt with the figures.

I knew I was right statistically.

We asked the question about the if, what if, and then communist takeover.

We only asked the people who said they were in favor of the congressional resolution.

Then I added no on the first question and then no on the second.

That's a perfectly sound thing to do, but it looks like you're going to turn it off.

But then when we pulled it the other way, we got exactly the same answer, which proved that the technique was right.

Yeah.

Which we knew it was, statistically, but it looked like you were looking with the figure.

No, we didn't.

I guess looking with the news turner, you really got fond of that suit guy right there.

Oh, we did, by the way, thank you for this panel.

According to some of the stuff here, because they picked up the Larry O'Brien deal.

More than that, I would say, it's more down here.

There's an old television where it says, Tom, Gerald, and all of them.

They followed up with the anti-stuff on farm problems.

They all led the thing with your deal with the agriculture department.

So we got our story out and they came on saying that's just fine but the farmers aren't happy.

Always unhappy.

I think the fact that they're jumping on this as hard as they are just in case they don't want us to get away with it.

They're building it up.

Who put it up?

Did we have to put up the tactic?

No, and they didn't.

I don't know.

We've got to get such a goddamn thing out.

We've got to get that thing right.

They just made it up.

It's nobody's business.

They're also using $100,000.

It's nobody's business what it is.

I mean...

And we'll run into the same thing that, man, what if I'm not going to have that available?

So you're not going to be put out again, right?

We know what the thing cost.

I paid for it all anyway.

I can't imagine seeing this thing.

For instance, the manufacturers paid for a lot of this stuff.

Of course they did.

This is a permanent agriculture department exhibit that we've got up here.

Now, let's do like now, right?

The world of the camera.

You can show me you've got to have some of that.

You couldn't have a better staff, man.

Whatever.

But you know, John is not PR conscious.

We should have had a PR guy on the goddamn thing.

And I suppose there's nobody there to coach him against, too.

I don't know about this senator or anybody.

I don't want to get away with that.

Well, it sounds like we just, we just took 70, you know, it doesn't sound important to you or me.

We know 70,000 is nothing.

It does kind of make a jerk out in the country.

He says they spent $70,000 on her to prove they love the farmer.

You know, that just sounds good.

That's what I thought.

I thought, well, Brian, I just think we weren't this.

went with it and then moved it up to $100,000.

That's pretty awesome, using $100,000.

All right, well, they're getting there.

Yeah, I think you've got it.

Are you about to figure it out, or are you about something else?

They all, I guess the press is a goddamn unfair.

And to find out that there are only 16 farmers that have been here, well, you double, you've got 32 with their wives, and they're all down as hell.

But the point is,

But if anybody told me that they were just going to get in with the farmers, the crisis is far bigger, it's far bigger, it's far bigger.

As you go across the city, we have people, our editors, we have bachelors from UD, we have people there.

I'm not really blaming any of our people.

I'm just telling you that it's a hell of a thing, a problem.

You know, to work hard and put something on, you just get bombed.

I mean, and this was about the home case.

We didn't have that positive.

I mean, we read it this time.

You can tell Bob.

It's all a little more negative than that.

All the work on it, it's still, you're going to get that adverse stuff, the stuff that the farmers, because they've got a great half-hour bill that's servicing all the 200 TV stations.

the whole sequence of the salute to agriculture.

They've got the farm publications covered.

It's going to be extremely good.

There were only 16 farmers in the internet.

What in the name of Christ were they talking about?

Like when we had the labor there.

We didn't have any workers.

We had all the labor leaders.

What are they talking about?

We didn't have any farmers, but we had the head of the farmers union.

We didn't have 16 farmers, but we had the head of the grains, we had the head of the farm bureau, we had the head of the farmers organizations, we had the head of the farmers union.

It's not them to snap back on that table.

Good God almighty.

I mean, they call me, call me like they want, but they didn't do it.

They were, uh, they, they completely distorted what we, uh, you know, the, uh, the idea that, uh, they said that they...

I sent a statement on inflation and said that inflation was a major problem we had to continue to work on.

You know what I mean?

Of course, we didn't have Zegra down there.

Nobody else was smart enough to read the press conference.

They just go down there and play golf and screw around and talk with these jackasses.

We really have got to get a little, I think it's my fault because I told them last time to try to do something.

We've done our job with them and they screw us every time.

Just let them whine, let them do what they want.

Who we have down there, Schultz was down there, McCracken, of course.

We pulled Connelly out of there.

We probably should have kept everybody else home and sent Connelly down.

Because Connelly would have carried the thing the other way.

Oh, I can hear the whole rest of them saying, well, maybe, but this, you know, I don't know.

People, that they don't pay any attention to playing.

Peterson was on the internet, but he's not the...

domestic economy that's why peterson business council's gone but don't ever submit that son of a bitch you listen to me again to do anything for i've done them now i've got important important time no six times six times because i've done twice a year and three times last year

Let's just let him go for a while.

He's got his thing together now, and his own arch-idiot ceremony in the business community.

And this is a group we ought to really get going with.

You know, last night, one thing that I'm sure you'll agree with me is that I do not have done, and I'm sure this, I don't know who, is responsible for it, but all of our members that they could pick out of California, why did we have to take Bruce here?

No, I told them.

They didn't have it at your table, did they?

No.

Okay, go ahead.

I don't know.

Why didn't we have our good enough there, for example, one half a farm?

Of course, we had Brock, but that was fine, too.

But I wouldn't have had, you know, we couldn't have a farmer.

Why did we have to have Ruskin?

I just really wondered.

I don't want to have a list of, from now on, Bob, I don't want any list of people in there unless there's either our friends or a chance to meet our friends.

One of the people who gave them was probably there because he said,

probably gets the largest federal payment for not raising cotton with anybody in the country.

I'll bet he gets it.

He lives off the federal government.

Sure.

And he's no good.

Did you notice that they published that list of farmers who received more than a million dollars for not growing stuff?

He's honored.

And I can't remember what a given was on it, but of the list, there were 10 or 11 of them.

Seven or eight were California operators, California cotton people.

And, uh,

The rest were scattered around the country.

Virtually all of them were in California.

So that's one part of the California economy which they're supporting, but it doesn't do us any good as far as jobs or anything like that.

Of course, the cotton thing is a disgrace, Bob.

The reason is, the only reason to keep the program going is because of the southern centers.

The centers in California, the southern centers, we need their votes.

But it's a half of us, the southern operators, I mean, California operators.

They're coming back.

We're going to pop that vote.

Is that cotton go free?

That's one that sure ought to be done before you leave here.

I'm going to go.

Because that is a bad deal, right?

It's going to be done.

No, I don't take it very seriously, but when I saw that name, I just thought, now for Christ's sakes, there were three or four others in California, which I was glad to see.

But Bruce kept that son of a bitch.

Well, the thing that started me is, Rose had him on the list, and he may have supported us.

He may have shifted and put some money in.

But he had him on the list instead of you're taking him.

I was just astonished.

I mean, I thought, because we did it all right.

Crossed that off, and...

Or a lot of my people, which is good.

Well, I figured that at least he should be on here.

He's out in the conservative.

He's against the kids, you know, wants people to work.

Well, I was there to see that one of the kids in the first question.

I heard when they took out over there was a 17-year-old kid who passed him up to arrest procedures and stuff and demonstrations.

And he said, I think, well, let's support you.

And once you did, everybody cheered.

Having it come from a kid, rather than some old farmer right by the farmer.

One of the kids at your table?

Uh, yeah.

Future farmer.

It'll be worth doing anyway.

It'll be worth doing in the farm community.

It probably may not have been worth the price.

Oh, there's one negative job that we did.

It's a one-day job.

I think he opened an engine and he was smart enough to use it.

He doesn't catch very many.

He hasn't gotten very many.

He hasn't had so much, but he had a good line on this.

He said, why spend this?

Farmers would be a lot better off if you'd spend this to help the drought problem instead of setting up a circus on a lighthouse lawn.

And so it's a pretty good pitch.

But I'm not sure it gets in anymore with anybody.

It looks good.

Well, Dolo's been, of course, all out for this thing anyway.

Yeah, I mean, he's all out for the farmer.

They said everything we do, we get hit and we're going to keep on.

They've got a good thing going on.

It's on this damn PR thing.

Every time you smile, they write a thing saying Nixon's trying to create a new image of being friendly and warm, you know, because he smiled.

If you have a kid on the shoulder, they're going to put the...

I guess he didn't see what I could do with that unless Max Frankel was getting the award tonight for this dinner.

I would not have gone to the dinner if I knew.

I would not have gone.

They just announced it.

I'm not going to go when the award is presented.

So let me just be sure that he knows.

In fact, I'll delay my arrival until a little later.

I am not going to be there.

And that's not what I'm going to do.

I will not have a picture taken.

They worked out a painting, a presentation to you, which I'm going to use now.

Yeah.

Say it again, please.

Yes, sir.

Do you see what they're doing?

They're presenting the next torch that they've got, the silversmith made, that symbolizes the American Revolution, tries to cut Adams and the Jefferson and the Nixon equivalent.

They've done all they owe.

That's a very classy gift.

They do that.

That, of course, thank God you have settled it in there.

Yes, sir.

I don't want to go there to honor Frank.

I'm going to be there.

Well, you're right.

We just go ahead and hit him a few yards.

Don't worry about that.

We just got to do it.

We'll get hit in the face every time.

Ron, one thing I want to make sure that you could be on the call with us.

No, I talked to Mary, the chief, and I'm getting ready to go to him right now.

They don't vary our line.

Yes, sir.

I told him that I wanted to be sure that everybody knew that this would be the policy this year.

Boy, it's just come through so loud and clear that way.

A few people that have gone the other way have just, yeah, well, I mean, uh,

That's why it is that we have not identified any strong policy.

That's the problem.

And God did that to us.

I was chanting last night, and they called at us, but they don't realize.

You see, we read the little things we put out here, the press things, and I call the policemen.

But I've got to get up and say it now and then, you see.

And I feel very strongly about this.

I always have.

And sometimes you just got to frankly do it.

You've got to get up and say it.

You must worry about it.

You see, don't worry about it.

Of course they're going to yell for it.

30 days, they're going to have a little civil rights son of a bitch saying, well, why did they have him?

My little boy wasn't here for that.

He was just in town with a cherry blossom tree when we were gone.

You're going to have to say that anyway.

You see, we're not going to get blamed anyway for it.

We're not going to get blamed anyway.

Take the hard line and stick them right in the puss.

See, that's the way you have to handle it.

I think the civil rights people are probably going to yell a little bit ahead here.

However, I do think I'm recovering the association with this and part of the president because what you said in the press conference happened.

And you told that to a lot of people, that those who broke the law would be arrested and it was going to be dealt with in a firm way and that the government was going to be kept open.

You told that to some 60 million people.

And those people know that that happened.

Commended them all for, you know, that I wanted to be understood.

The way that this will be the powerhouse.

This is going to be the future.

This is going to be an open city.

And it's going to be a safe city.

I hate when a dean has got to do three quotes at a time.

I got that from him, yes.

I've talked to him.

In fact, the right of protest became the right not to protest.

The right of people can do either.

People are not, they're not going to engage me with a legal comment.

I'm not going to go to jail.

It came true very hard.

And they can say we're trying to get my head in the hole.

I've been saying it from the beginning.

Who the hell gave me the order to do it Saturday night?

I want to tell you, I was horrified to learn that Franklin was getting the award tonight.

I will not be at this dinner at the time he gets that award.

I will not be there.

I will have a picture taken with us on the bench.

Now, do you know what the schedule is?

Hang on, sir.

Can I just go right at the last, or the singing, or something like that?

I will not do that.

Thanks, Franklin.

You had the schedule.

Yeah.

You go the end of Strollway at dessert.

It'll be very easy, I'll just be late.

You go to dessert and then they present the Raymond Clapper Award to Bingham Awards as you go around.

That is, that's John Settle in St. Lawrence.

Jack Settle.

I'll go to his F.K.

Award, he's getting the Raymond Clapper Award, isn't he?

That's right.

You see, the Raymond Clapper Award traditionally goes to a left winger.

Always does.

And this year, they picked the right one.

They picked Ed Frankel.

So I'll be God damned if I'm going to be there and have any connection with him.

First, I don't want any connection with the Raymond Clapper Award, period.

Second, I'm going to have to have Max Frankel at the other times.

I'm not going to be there to pick his name.

I'm going to go with the left winger that way.

So I'll work it out.

I'll just get the lead.

The program, as of now, is that you come in, have dessert.

Then, right after dessert, they present the awards, then John Sutherland's remarks.

Then the entertainment.

At the end of the entertainment, Sutherland presents you with this.

You make remarks.

Then Sutherland

He closes the meeting and escorts you out of the hall.

You go to the Delaware room with the photos of the entertainment groups and the head table.

And then you're out.

He and David meet you there and you return.

I think he comes from the audience.

to get that award.

The head table looks like it's the cabinet officers and officers of the association.

And Rob Ziegler.

Well, I'll work it out.

I don't know, but I will not be there when he's on the benches there.

To be sure of that, I'll just find a way to get there in time to hear the action.

But I'm not going to be there to honor Frankl.

If it's time for an award, it's better than for

No, no, no, yes.

Just let me know.

It's better you don't know about our office.

No, no, no, yes.

I don't think we've got to get a definition like this that we needed, that we need.

If you disagree, it really happens.

If it was good to do this, I think it's good to hammer that identification in.

But I think it's very strongly there.

Maybe we do it.

There's a lot.

You see, we can do a thing, Bob.

It's like the way we handle our foreign policy.

We do things extremely well, whether it's Jordan or the next lifetime that we leave.

But there are very good things we're getting credit for.

Because, and it's this congress point, the congress of the continent, we've got to have a dynamic.

You know, you gotta get out there and try to take as great as you can and get the hell out of the limelight when you don't want to be doing anything.

We talk about PR quite as we, uh...

That's absolutely right.

I'll tell you what, I agree.

I think we can shake that whole thing up.

Can you?

I'm going to try.

Yeah.

I think

Now, I want to talk with Ken Cole, who was really the key to getting some of this work done yesterday.

He's a good man.

That the whole Ed Morgan concept is wrong.

I've always thought it was wrong, and now I'm absolutely convinced.

Well, the idea of putting Ed Morgan in charge of selling the domestic program, you know, and setting up this separate app, right?

But the reason it's wrong is that it's the same.

It's the same getting out of it.

by the people that should be doing it, as when they looked at Herb Kline's office and said, why doesn't he sell the program?

Now you've still got Bud Krogh who's in charge of dope and narcotics.

Okay, now Bud Krogh works up his program.

He says, there's a good program about narcotics.

And he says to Ed Morgan, you go sell it now.

Now that's wrong.

The guy that's got to sell the program on narcotics is probably the commandant's head, and the attorney general, and the narcotics division.

Those people have got to sell it.

Not a line of area crime.

They've got to sell their programs.

That's right.

But reorganization, you can't turn it over to Ed Morgan to sell it.

The guys that are reorganizing have got to be on selling it.

And the whole thing, Elliot Richardson and the people there have got to be doing it.

But Cole sees this.

He's the only guy I've been able to get this idea, you know, went through and I just can't get it through to anybody.

I'm going to try again.

But Cole, Cole sees what I mean.

What I said to him was that I think you've got to, first of all, and you may not buy this, and I'm going to try hard and early on this, I don't think that there's any point in the domestic counsel for those guys who are very capable and good guys who are spending more than ten minutes

between now and the end of next year.

developing any domestic programs.

I agree.

Because it doesn't make a shit bit of difference.

I mean, next year, sure, if they decide to go into tax reform and drive you out of it, that's fine.

That's your one initiative.

But if you don't have that, talk about foreign policy and reiterate your other stuff.

And just say we're still hammering for it.

This goddamn Congress hasn't done it.

What's the matter with you people?

But we don't need another new initiative.

The other thing that I've said is, let your guys, you say they're overworked, and they're so busy on all these things.

Let me say something to you.

In my view, every one of your guys, you could write today, take half of what he's doing, and eliminate it, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.

You're absolutely right, except that it really is three quarters of it.

What I'm trying to teach you is that every little problem that comes along, they feel they have to deal with it, polish it, and get a lot of papers, and work it all out, and make sure it's done right.

Michael, you have to.

90% of what's done here, if it's all done wrong, and it can't be all done wrong, because we aren't that bad.

If it's all done wrong, it won't matter.

Just let them do what's wrong, and spend your time selling it.

and working on the one or two guns in each guy's area that we'll get some credit for, and getting the credit for.

And then that's what those guys are worth something for.

And John's got them all now.

They've been sitting around having these seminars at Camp David about what the issues are going to be next year.

And I said, the issues next year are going to be the economy and the war.

And you guys could come up with 17 new American revolutions, and you wouldn't make one tenth of 1% difference in the vote for president next November.

But if you come up with a thing that develops an impression between now and next November that Richard Nixon

has accomplished all kinds of monumental things, that can make a difference of 10%.

Even though they're not monumental.

But it's what people think they are.

I think it's a hell of a thing that they're giving you a torch about the New American Revolution.

Somebody in the paper today, one of the left folk, Clayton Fritchie, writes a thing saying that the New American Revolution's dead, everybody can now relax.

There's no danger from it anymore.

Well, they're going to try and say that.

I think we can keep hammering it and make something out of it happen.

But down to the whole thing of the cancer thing, he said, you're absolutely right.

If you see my point on cancer completely, he wrote that paper over the war things and never won over the game.

And he agreed.

And he said, I confess to total guilt.

I have worried all the time I've been here, all my time, about trying to make sure what we were doing was right.

And I say, Ken, forget about 90% of what you're doing.

Don't worry about whether it's right or wrong.

And just figure this.

It's a judgment call most of anyone.

Who knows what's right or wrong?

And we aren't going to do anything that bad.

We really aren't.

I mean, it's just that we're right on the show.

If we're right on the show, it's not that bad.

I'm going to start taking that attack.

I'll come to good with the extreme on it.

which will push it some in that direction.

Ken sees what I'm talking about.

He agrees that the Morgan thing is a bad idea.

And he says Morgan agrees that it's a bad idea.

You don't need one guy responsible for all that.

What you need is each guy responsible for his part.

And then what we ought to do is program you from time to time to pick up a phone and say, God damn it, I haven't seen anything on Dota for a week.

Now I'm not going to talk about it.

Or like, what if I didn't get a kiss during the Christmas?

Well, I should have gotten one little clip of it.

But you know, or I should have given somebody a good kiss.

It's not getting bought well.

But there are all these things, there are a lot of them.

You can keep fighting and giving.

You can keep fighting and one burger and you're at the same time.

You know, get the money to where it matters.

Now, one burger understands what you're talking about, but that's going to make a difference.

Dan Ryan, he is a little antenna artist, and he loves the ideas.

He meant exactly what he said.

This will be the first political campaign I've been in where we have enough money.

All of us have talked about that in all the campaigns.

If we only had the Kennedy's money, you know how much fun a campaign would be.

We do have the Kennedy's money this week.

We have $200 billion.

Well, in a sense, there's a lot of results coming through.

But we have a few billion that are about that.

We've got to be careful if we start spending the money in our own way and effective way.

I think we're going to run deficits anyway, Bob.

The whole thing is everybody's, let's face it, the problem that I've often said, when we go into this next year, the hell with the inflation.

The other problem that John is dealing with that Ken disagrees with John completely, he said that in our seminars and stuff that we've been discussing, not only are we working on next year's legislative program,

But he's very concerned about developing our program for two years ahead.

Oh, shit.

That's it.

Jesus Christ, Ken.

The problem is we're over-organized.

I agree.

I really think we are.

We've gotten, and it was a very good idea,

All we've got there are the Schultz operation.

They've got the staffs.

And so we're surviving the market.

It's like Henry's over-organized.

That's really the reason he's kept sending in too many papers.

We've got to keep the little boys busy.

But with the earlier staff, we've got the capability, if we can get John Turner in there, and I think we can, we've got the capability to shift that, because those guys are all politicians.

Morgan, Whitaker, those people showed up, they're political guys, that we put into substance, and we ought to be able to shift their thinking.

And it all went, I kept making the point to Paul, I said, Tom Cotney is the only guy we've got here who recognizes it.

He said, well, Cotney knows you've got to do things right in the Treasury Department, but he knows even more quickly that doing them right doesn't do any good if nobody knows you did them right.

And Cotney spends at least half his time getting the word out, maybe more.

And that's what we've got to do.

The whole, you know, the best, the best indication of the whole problem we've got.

And I must say, I just can't believe it right now, but when you...

And then you take one-tenth of one percent, which of course is statistically irrelevant on an employee.

Statistically irrelevant.

And then make that the lead story of all the networks.

And when our, and that's what we start to remember.

The lead story every day to the right.

Now, that shows you what they can do.

Now the point is, when it goes down in this, it's the lead story.

You understand?

We've got to make it, the way you said, sir.

That is the whole point.

And in all in all, when you come down, the way you did it, it's got to go down.

That's quite for sure.

It'll take a little time.

But one of the reasons that my press conference in San Clemente was so good in this respect is that I compared the labor office, particular, Klein, all the others, probably didn't read the goddamn thing, where I said that unemployment was the last number to come down.

I didn't say it was going to come down.

I know this story, and I said also inflation was still a problem.

We had to fight it, you know.

I mean, we didn't say that it was stopped.

And here down at the business council, they rumble around, says the president shouldn't have said that inflation had been checked.

I didn't say that it had been checked.

But where did they know it was landing?

Where did they know it was Schultz?

Why didn't they speak up to one of these people?

You've got to hang on right from the spot, Bob.

You've got to understand, rather than, you know, farting around with them and saying, oh, gee whiz, it's all the time you're fighting some underwear assault this year.

I tell you, we got the best bunch of guys at doing things.

Worst bunch of guys saw things I ever saw.

Well, Cole, Cole did not object to my changing that cancer thing to report to the president of DCY.

The only thing he objected to was he hadn't thought of it.

He said, obviously, that was the right way to do it.

And he was very, he was as humble as this, but he had it the wrong way.

He had it the way that I couldn't accept it, right?

And now you've just got the whole goddamn thing reported to the president, rather than having it reported to A.G.W.

Who the hell is A.G.W.?

He said he, no, he has no argument at all.

He thinks it's exactly the right way.

He's very, he was very judgmental that you think of it instead of him.

That's what I'm for.

And that's why you see, actually, you've got to, the other thing everybody's got to realize is

I've gotten Henry adjusted to it, and Charleston heard me adjusted to it.

They sent in their papers.

It's my job not just to take their papers.

They aren't the president.

I am.

And I'm going to cross off things and decide to do it another way.

That's what we've got to do, Bob.

We've got to watch these things, because they haven't made these command judgments often enough, but don't know how important it is to do it one way or another.

which is the whole reason for keeping you a step above those structures, so that you can't make that decision without trying being invited.

But I didn't get in the business for a week or two.

Well, I must say that on this, it's getting the president to vote.

It may be that we're identified on this subject, right?

But by God, after what we did this last week in Washington, I've got to be identified as a law and order guy.

A strong law and order guy.

No nonsense, no hippies.

You know, apart from the war and everything else that we've been not letting after turnovers.

And I don't want to be identified that way.

I want to be a tough, god damn cop with regard to that thing.

Now, you get the March of the Pigeons drums going a little bit out of the city.

Now that they'll be back, they'll say, you're gonna lose the youth vote.

You're not gonna lose the youth vote.

You're gonna lose the youth ballot.

But the people, the youth do not like these kids.

That's right.

I got certain things they're gonna like, so it's back to them.

Look, they were ripping up, they did some terrible things.

They don't like somebody standing nude up there pissing on the Statue of Liberty.

That's right.

Do they?

No.

I mean, it's terrible.

They like it.

I understand the long hair bed and dress, but you see those guys.

I signed Dick Campbell.

There was such a freaky little bunch.

But they were good.

And then the Americans.

Well, you notice Campbell, you know, how he came through loud and clear about the president being a great man and all that stuff.

He's a Southern Democrat.

After the dinner, he was, that was good.

Good for him to say that to that crowd.

Repressed at the time.

I didn't say impressed in the case.

I just wish we could keep them out of those things.

See those little bitchy women around.

I'll tell you this.

It was quite clear from that gathering last night.

The part in the press attitude that they had to do with the farmers and the farm organizations and the farm press on all spectrums was extremely positive on the appearance of the second day of the motion department.

They were all just really on a rave note on me.

And I think you're going to get a hell of a lot of lines in the farm press.

I think they will follow up on it.

And I think it frustrates the...

left-wing White House press to see you doing something that they know you are going to get some mileage out of.

And they, they shafted the story.

And that's... You can't do coverage on the labor thing either.

They smeared at us for that.

I know.

It's still a good thing to do.

But you can't do coverage in the labor press.

Our main problem is still, we want to remember the presidential appearances.

Except, I can't go, I can't get away from the fact, you know, my first thinking may be all good.

Not next week, the week after next.

Or two weeks.

Two weeks, I see.

But you just can't expect a man to go up there each night and say these situations.

It's a, here's the economy.

That's why economy coming in loud and clear is important.

I'll get to that.

On the economy, the sensible people, in fact, the fact that you look at the New York Times, of course, they have a very long story.

They said it was a small, it was a...

infinitesimal or something like that.

This is not a significant thing, the point that they put down.

Who the hell predicted it was going to be?

I did.

I didn't.

McBracken didn't.

Schultz didn't.

Connolly didn't.

I said at the end of the year, unemployment's going to hang high.

But they're going to squiggle about it for a while now.

And then they're going to be out and under.

Oh, incidentally, you notice Muskie's going to have periods on arms control.

If we got anything there, I don't kill him better than a mackerel.

They're all way out on the limb on that one.

They've all done it.

If it does, we're in a perfect position.

But you're right, Bob.

You're absolutely right.

It's totally wrong, and hey, it's half wrong.

But you're right when you agree with me that the effect of salt is going to have a hell of an effect on this town.

How are we going to know what the hell salt is?

Now we can...

I'm not so sure.

It's hard.

Well, people don't trust the Russians.

People don't trust the Russians, but people are...

I think you may have, with this national climate of concern about water and everything, a chance where if we can put salt in simple terms,

Remember, for instance, look at the enormous plate that Kennedy got out of the test fan tree.

Okay, but the test fan tree didn't mean a damn thing.

Oh, sure.

And yet it really, that was really its only positive thing.

Oh, oh, oh.

Because we can detect underground things, we should stop testing underground, too.

He's a goddamn fool.

I mean, that, that, that pivots us without a question, but we can't really get a list without it in it.

How do we know we can't detect it?

Well, on the test, on this thing here, here we're really gonna, we may have to come to the map of the bill if we get something on Salt Lake.

The bill is going to be extremely

You know, avaricious in regard to wanting to get the credit for it.

You've got to do it on television.

That's what you've really got to do on.

You've got to do it on TV.

And there'll be arguments for the effect of that.

They don't want to.

The Russians don't want it on TV.

They don't want me to get the credit on it.

I've got to do it.

Bill and Jerry said they've got to get the hell out of the way.

Let's do it.

We do it.

If we get it today.

And if you want us to, we will.

But we should call down the leaders about a half hour before we make a dramatic announcement.

And go on TV, right?

I don't know if there's enough parts to sit there.

Put them behind the TV.

Get all that there.

No, I don't have that on TV.

You may have the informing leaders.

Have them in the room.

It happens.

Now, you know, Bob is speaking of, at least earlier than a Cholson arrest, they are totally dedicated consultants that are trying to build stuff.

But goddamn Rogers, he tries in his own way, but he always comes number four on this.

He sure does.

He sure forgot all about who he worked for on this trip.

All the talk is Rogers flying down there.

Before, it's all been...

And he's built it here.

He's done a good job before.

I disagree with Henry on how Bill has approached it up to now.

On the Middle East thing, when he talks about it, he always talks about the Nixon plan and what the Nixon administration is doing and that kind of thing.

And it may be not Bill's fault on the trip.

It may just be the fact that he's there and the way the trucks are flying, I'm sure, as the Rodgers plan, that all the reporting comes out of today.

I don't know.

Roger.

That may not be all bad.

I bet you it works, Steven.

I'm not too concerned it's not working.

As a matter of fact, if we can get this to its ultimate abilities, I believe that would be a hell of an accomplishment.

We can't leave without a victory.

Of course.

How did he do that?

I'm not sure he had a good clip.

I think he lost it.

That's a whole hell of a...

I'm not so sure.

I'm not convinced.

And I don't know how they can find out.

He cannot even, he can't even go to the court until he has a victory.

Secretary of State, well, that's the point.

You know, because he stayed up.

He worked hard.

He has to pull everything off.

What did he want for a year?

Yeah, anything.

Anyway, well, let's see.

What we have to do is...

I've got to have a hard game with him in terms of what comes out of him now and keep Henry at least so that he doesn't ever take his body.

When he breaks, we're going to take him ourselves.

And that's all there is to it.

There it is that you've got to be the only foreign policy spokesperson.

Sure.

And that probably you should start doing some foreign policy content.

Once in a while.

Can't be anything like that.

No president was ever quoted directly on the note.

I can go on with my policy more.

I can just go on next month.

I don't have to be on the prime time TV.

You can go on your radio and do some of that.

Yeah, I agree.

But the Q&A is enormously impressive.

It's much more interesting.

Yeah.

But it's... Like, for example, you would do the editor's kind of thing.

in the middle of the day or something like that, and if you want to report a policy and it's letterable, letter written, you get across an awful lot of things.

Well, for example, I can say I've been there in the last press conference, and I had already said in the April 7th speech, I noticed a lot of tutorials, a lot particularly in Chicago Sun, Chicago Daily News, who said to the president, clarify, I'd say, I'd say, well, I made the same points about prisoners, the same points about military reports, the same points about federal withdrawal, the same points, all April 7th.

It just proves that, you know, as far as you've got to keep saying it over and over, you've got to keep saying it over and over.

It's the only way, even to an editorial.

Our people over here have no understanding of that.

They're totally incompetent in that respect.

They don't realize you've got to keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it and repeating it.

I think we've got to get all of our people away from planning two years.

Who the hell cares?

Why do we want to do that?

Well, what I suggested to Cole was that he made the point that most of the people would accept that.

And Harper, who is not, doesn't understand this at all, he wouldn't understand it.

What I said is, why don't you set Ed Parker up over there with a couple people, let him plan too, and forget about it.

Then you'll feel good about it if you've got somebody doing your long range planning all the time, developing some new programs, figuring it out.

But just forget about it.

We're pressing Bill Keele or Erland or anybody who'll matter to waste any time.

And then get your good guys, Morgan and Grove and

and the rest of the people had to sit down and thinking about, only about PR.

What I mean by PR, not in the sense of a slew of bad culture, but PR in terms of how are we going to get across the points, how are we going to identify the president with these things, and so forth and so on.

Now, I must say that going out to this gateway piece isn't a bad idea, but it's got to be, I mean, I went out there and flew over San Clemente.

I would have followed with names on them.

I don't think that's what I would have done.

Maybe we still came out with a name of the beach or something.

No, I think you're going to name the beach.

How did they do that?

I don't know.

There's a word you can think of, you know, the World Rogers Beach and the Virginia Beach.

I mean, that beach shouldn't be named the region next to the beach.

It never should be, because next to the home, I got the god damn name done.

And I said, damn good.

It's the most spectacular beach that's in the world right now.

He said, damn good.

I think also this Gateway East thing is good for that reason.

It points out the park.

But I made the point to go.

I said, and he bought it completely.

I said, what the hell good?

Sure, that's a good idea to go out and open Gateway East, but who the hell gives a shit about Gateway East?

Who knows what you're talking about?

Why don't we call it Nixon Park, or not Nixon Park, or Church of Nixon Park, or David Eisenhower Park?

And you should, but we ought to be thinking about it.

Maybe we could call it Freedom Party or something, and then say, Freedom Park presented to the people under the Nixon administration.

But, hell, every mayor in this country

And every hokey little city puts his name all over the goddamn city.

Every building always has a Sam Johnson name.

The administration of Sam, Joel Jones, and so forth.

Any public building in this country, any airport, any latrine, or anything else, there's always a big marble thing on the wall that has the mayor's name on it.

And all the city council members, I say, will do their job and give them money.

Oh, Huey Long, we laughed at it, but God damn it, nobody ever forgot who was around there.

And everything in the whole city is named Huey Long Memorial Grounds.

All of those, we've got to work towards that kind of thing.

I don't know what the policy is.

I'm going to announce the trip up there on Monday now.

Well, is it worked out?

Well, we've got all kinds of flack about it.

We have to take the Senate and House interior committees and all that stuff.

So I don't know how to...

I jumped on it this morning because I can't see if they come back and want to change the thing.

Yeah.

And then they want to put, they say we've got to put all the mayors, all the people in the president's helicopter.

If we do that, there's no way to put the press in.

Well, that's what I said.

That's what you used to go with.

We don't have cameras in the president's helicopter.

He might as well not go.

I'm putting in all the mayors.

The two mayors.

They want to put the two mayors and the two governors and the secretary of the interior and you and the press all in one helicopter.

We can't do it.

We can work out a way.

We can change.

What we can do is shift it.

Mayor's in for part of the government.

Governor's in for the other part or something like that.

But we can't do it if we have to take the interior committees and the four senators in there.

And more senators are not going, period.

That's an issue.

So that's an issue.

Now, the Interior Committee, they're not going.

They're going to keep the senators out if you take the Senate Interior Committee.

I won't take the Senate Interior Committee.

My point is, if you were Jack Javits, would you sit here while the Senate Interior Committee went up there?

No, I'm not taking any of those.

And there isn't room.

You can't do it even if we wanted to.

And we don't want to.

So anyway, I don't see why you can't have the two governors and the mayors and Martin, you have to have him.

You know, he's up there all the time.

Well, we're working at that part.

We can work out.

And I'm worried about that.

I had two helicopters.

I had Martin on one.

That's what we're going to do.

I'll be on the other with another.

That was exactly the plan.

Now that we're worried that, you know, because Mary Gibson's fine, that she can't put him on the second helicopter.

Well, God damn it, she can't do that.

Putting him on for part of the way, that's exactly the plan.

Plus, why did he?

Well, who's she talking about?

Who's she talking about?

Who's in charge?

Bud Waker.

What if you're taking the earth and we're all trying to untangle us?

I don't want to take the earth.

Well, he was in there.

Well, the main point is, if we have to take the interior, then I'm not going.

That's the way I'm going.

That's all.

Because I can't go there without taking the senators.

I will not take those senators up there.

Three out of the four of them.

I'm not going to have Brian Brown be there.

Well, there's no point in giving the Senators credit for this.

It looks like you've got to hand it to the Congressional.

Well, they're arguing that we've got to take the committee in order to get it through.

We don't really care that much about getting it through.

No, it's up to the committee to care about it.

It's up to the committee.

The committee wants it, not to put it through.

That's just too goddamn bad.

We'll go on fighting for parks for the people.

The Congress won't give them.

That's right.

Well, let's see what you can find out.

If you can, why don't you ask?

Ask later.

And just, if, but it's Iran's culture, just forget it.

If he says the Interior Committees have to go, any of them, just not going.

Overreact to it, sir.

Overreact to it.

Overreact to something true or something like that, sir.

But you've got to have some kind of a meeting sometime, though, about

I don't care what gets through.

Just get something from the collier and say you're right.

I'm inclined to agree with him.

What I mean is I'm inclined to agree with him.

I'm inclined to accept that we really got to pump hard because if we do, because Bill is a clever son of a bitch and actually he wants to take it.

All this is an incredibly good song.

It would be great if we could keep running around and talking about it.

There's number one in the SST.

It's really tough.

I don't know how the heat comes on it.

Thank God, but you thought of the idea of my really good Johnson's thing from Florida.

I hope nobody's bitching about that.

Somebody want to fly to Florida, ride with me over there.

Nobody will until I can tell you.

That's going to be a nice, easy fight for me.

I'm going to hold her.

I'm going to shake hands with her, help her against the bottom of the ramp, let her take the turn of the plane.

That's an excellent idea.

Hard to ride in a helicopter.

That's fine.

On the way back, after the, back to the money, sure, sure.

Anything like that, it's not a little therapy.

If you fly in alone, fly back alone, that's that.

And we're doing, you know, we're going to stay on the people.

We're bringing down presidential money from Washington.

That's, sure, we're going to bring back people in that.

Yeah.

He said he was going to take a better use of my time going to the library and educating me.

He would?

Yeah.

He didn't mean it.

He picked it up.

My job.

If you've got a minute, you can talk about the strategy of the rest of the show.

All right, yes, yes, come on.

No candidates, no candidates, no senators.

Fine.

I'd be curious to hear if Lindsey accepted.

I don't know.

Well, Lindsey, I don't want to throw out an invitation and then have him bluntly say for some damn reason.

You understand what I mean?

I do not indicate who's guilty.

Just say that I'm guilty.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, surely if you are thinking that we're inviting Mayor Lindsay and we're inviting Governor Rockwell or we're inviting, you know, Governor Rockwell and Mayor Hernandez, nice.

Lindsay is just a kind of a bastion.

It's like they say, I refuse to go.

You understand?

Don't put yourself in that position.

Don't put yourself in the position of who the hell is going.

You said we're going up there.

Who's going?

Well, we'll let you know.

We're checking out now to see.

President and Secretary Morton.

President and Secretary Morton will be going up.

So they'll go to the new staff.

Don't get Lindsey's acceptance or rejection.

Don't put it out.

I think

You've got the governors, and uh, and uh, you see, I don't, I don't get, I don't get no way to deliver Lindsey's buzzsaw.

Go ahead.

It's fine.

He's a son of a bitch, Bob.

Just like they say, well, because they're a crew, the police were repressive or something.

You know, he's, I mean, now he's not gonna go.

Screw him.

He can go around, but he's not gonna, I think he'll go.

They've been working with, he's been very much involved in this thing.

He isn't going to want to not be there.

I'll break it, I've got a bad rap in the image.

And that tax, I sure did.

And that showed you, at the state level, showed you what our boys are, got to start remembering.

At the state level, a little son of a bitch, down in the woodwork, found that out, put it out to somebody in the press.

At the state, you know, this is not us that did this with Hancock.

The ironic thing is that it was a student, student reporter, student reporter on a campus radio station that put it out.

I'm inclined to think if I were Reagan, I would go, well, he's not running anything, but I guess I had losses in the range.

It obviously did.

We were just talking about the fact that the experience that Reagan has had on his income tax shows

I heard about some of the problems that we've had on a conscious basis in the last few years.

Of course, I'm a veteran.

The state income tax law has slipped to a student reporter.

In fact, it is being taxed.

Well, of course, it's a great example.

I mean, I've heard all...

Thank goodness this is a state office.

Thank God it wasn't us, but thank God all the Reagan people that got into that one.

If anyone was any better or was there, we might write a column on there next.

Did we finally get our man in that, or is...

Apparently, it's coming.

We're getting a lot of vibrations out of Treasury right now.

They want Nolan?

No, well, yeah, the bureaucracy wanted Nolan, and they're leaking all kinds of stories.

What happened to the White House?

I saw that.

McConaughey was appealing.

No, he knows that we have to have that.

He's all right.

He's fine.

All right.

Here's the thing, John, I feel it just requires your...

I don't think you can talk as candidly as you go about it.

Schultz has been talking about his meetings with Mills.

Right.

I get it.

You're somewhat distrustful of that.

I am too.

I mean, mainly because I think that Schultz feels that Mills is an honorable man, whereas we know Mills is a son of a bitch.

I mean, he's a raider never.

There are all kinds of signs around this.

There's even a wire story that Mills is getting ready to move out on his own.

He's been bigger than that.

Move out on his own, I'm very much sure.

Yeah.

So, and he's to make a speech Monday to the Tennessee legislature.

And it is anticipated that he will unveil his plan at that time, whether or not we do.

I think we would.

That's why it is, John.

You know, Connolly, Schultz is talking to him.

Connolly is a friend with I. I've studied it.

It says, well, it's a big apple open, right?

On the other hand, has anybody discussed it with Ford?

Your board is out there babbling like a son of a bitch with all these congressmen and so forth, and people feel very unhappy.

That's our problem.

We've got guys that are counting on us all over this country.

Not just in the country.

That's right.

Now, what is basically the mill's plan?

Well, as near as we can tell, it's going to be some kind of a modified revenue sharing.

But only the cities, not the states.

and it will probably be in essence a block grant, kind of a block grant approach.

I don't think he is.

I think we're set up for a big double-cross here, in my opinion.

Well, we have, and what I've done to slow George down on this a little bit is I've gotten him working with Ed Morgan about the whole problem with clearance.

He had the feeling that all he had to do was have a handshake with Wilbur and then the dawn was going to come.

We've explained to him the various people that we would have to talk to.

And we said, George, what are we going to say to Nelson Rock and tell her about this?

What are we going to say to Ronald Reagan about this?

What are we going to say to Eric Cheney?

All these guys up and down the line.

And obviously, they shouldn't read this in the paper.

They should hear it from us.

And then he said, yes, I see that.

Well, maybe we ought to get together and figure this out.

So Monday, what I've done

is to set a meeting with you and Connolly and Schultz and McGregor and May.

Connolly, okay.

And... Well, can you talk to him?

Can somebody talk to Connolly a little in advance?

All right.

What I mean is, he's coming in this, maybe, John, quickly, out of the blue.

All right.

He will want to settle.

I mean, he wants a progress.

But Connolly is aware.

He's aware of Mills' motives.

But Schultz is not.

Schultz is like a baby in the woods with Pimps, it seems to me.

Well, I will say this.

If George could pull this off with Pimps, and we could come out where George thinks we would come out, I'd be 100%.

Well, as I understand it.

one approach we might take is

That's Lindsey's street name.

I'm not sure if Katie and I talked about it before.

Well, it gets us out of the country, so I'm going to say he's been invited in.

The mayor gets us invited also, right?

Go ahead.

The only way I know to really smoke this out, and then this is what I'm going to propose Monday to this group.

Let me tell you what I've done and the way to smoke it out, if I may suggest.

The way to smoke it out is to have George Shultz with Connelly.

My God, that Connelly will see.

I mean, Millicent's not a bullshit man.

He will bullshit Shultz.

I was going to go one step beyond that and bring it down here.

Oh, Christ.

I don't mind going, but he's such a tricky bastard.

Well, but he is so tricky that even with Schultz and Connolly, I don't think you could count on him.

I think he has such a strong sense of the presidency, though, that he would not pull something on you.

All right.

What about Burns?

Where's he going to be?

Burns?

George says he's a bore.

Now, I haven't talked to Johnny.

I would assume he's a bore.

Because George said so.

But there again, he's just tough as hell to get aboard on anything.

You know, he's just been, he's negative as can be.

So I must say, John, a guy that is worth a damn and that we've really got to stand by is Jerry Porter.

Jerry Porter, you know, he's all those absolute senators, none of them are speaking up.

Jerry Ford said, oh, you've got to put through this revenue sharing.

We've got these fellows.

He's got some more, Congressman.

You know, he's really talking strong.

Well, Ford will be here in this meeting.

You asked to have him, too, so we invited him to come.

And when is this?

This Monday at 5 o'clock.

Well, I'll be back.

Oh, yeah, brother.

Well, I'll be in the meeting.

Yes, sir.

Well, this meeting, I can listen.

You asked to.

to have a meeting with these people the other day, so I've set it up.

No, not having anybody from the committee.

Jerry's the only one from the Congress.

It's as soon as, yes, it's as soon as I have breakfast.

That's fine.

If we can do it, if you can do it, that would be fine, but then you're...

I know this is terribly important, John, to get this strategy ready.

I think 5 o'clock's all the way...

You understand, I don't do many speeches in New York, do we?

No, sir.

No?

No.

Oh, well, you know, I, you know, maybe I was informal.

Oh, we've got something like that.

Thank God we have no senators or congressmen so I can reach out.

What is the deal again?

It's scheduled now for 9.30.

Why not 8 o'clock breakfast?

It's fine.

You can do it.

I can do it.

Oh, I think it's very important.

I think an 8 o'clock breakfast would be good.

John, that gets everybody in the room.

That'd be great.

Well, I have some lines out to try and find out exactly what Mel's going to say.

And we'll have to do both, Bob.

We can't delay our strategy.

You're going to have Schultz, Conley, Ford,

McGregor and me.

Yeah, one of them.

Let's put somebody else in one of them.

That's enough.

Let's see.

If you want breakfast, that's fine.

If there's no problem, I'll walk right out of the breakfast and leave at 9.30.

Unless I sound huge, that'd be fine.

I would help because we're going to need Monday to get the ducks in a row, get this all set up.

As I will just start right out, I'll be there.

We'll sit down and I'll start right off.

It might be...

that if everybody thinks well of the idea of your tying those down, that we could use the 5 o'clock slot for that.

I agree.

But let's just hold that over.

Well, what I'm thinking is to preempt that or to frustrate it or to do something.

And we can talk about that Monday morning and I'll try and have as much information as I can.

Mr. Nelson now, as Mitchell said, Nelson's like all the other Nelsons for a very good reason.

He's a man, he's arms vanity, who thinks that he can be a presidential candidate.

So he's rushing around and trying to pick up some of the delegates.

He's also under very great pressure from the Democratic Party to come up with an alternative.

Since he's not the leader of the House.

Yep.

Because Albert is one of the pieces.

Probably is.

He probably is the strongest man.

He may not exert leadership, but he'll clearly be the leader of the House.

He'll be a speaker.

He'll be talking to somebody a little bit.

I'm trying to track down some police records on Albert, who has apparently been drunk in public here a couple times recently.

Has he, you know, has his wife accosted some people in the restaurant?

I don't believe you have any problem.

Jerry doesn't believe that Albert drinks.

He better do.

He was playing that so square the other day.

Does he drink?

That's all our reports are.

He's very strong.

And that was the Vice President saying it, you know, when he couldn't get anyone to spurn anything.

See, he was out.

Yeah, yeah.

That's right.

Well, Albert is probably just can't take the pressure of leadership, which, you know, he can't because he's been in line.

And that's time.

That's what Les was saying.

He hasn't made a decision yet as Speaker.

He made one on the Capitol Police arresting the demonstrators and trying to have it both ways.

Attorney General, I was going to say that we are really going outposting the SSC thing again.

So I understand.

It's a long question.

It's not all that long a shot.

It's crept into the rumors.

Is there no secret about it?

Of course not.

How could a terrorist be named this big secret?

Well, how could they?

He told me that that's me.

And I told me to put the heat on him.

He said he'd keep me in the locker to work on him.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Yeah.

I wondered about the microcopy machine.

If, uh, you know, this, uh, this SST thing coming up, do you think you could, uh, you could talk daily about, uh, you know, memories?

You said you'd get a couple of those guys.

Would that be out of the way?

Or, I mean, maybe there's just too much going on there.

I know you didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but, uh, yeah, if you could give me your obligations, then I could do some other things that we have to do.

Yeah.

Well, anyway, there's a way to get a couple of Chicago people to break over on that.

He's coming to see me this Friday, this week.

Yeah, except that he is not going to come in until...

But he knows he's coming.

Well, I think it's fine.

He has, if he has a, if he has a, he's willing to go out and just ask him to go talk to him.

They won't go to him.

We just, we just feel this is important to the country.

Oh, that's good.

Talk to all the people in the Chicago police and they'll be quoting the other way.

We just want to see you out of the impact of those people.

Okay.

I think the plan is fine.

I'll hold 8 o'clock and hang right up there.

The other thing is that on the SST thing, Jerry, I told him if he wanted it, he thought it would be helpful, and I think some of the Republicans voted against it.

So, I don't know whether it would do any good, but Jerry will not ask for meeting, I'm sure, unless he feels it would do some good.

And his wife, his name, if all I could talk, I didn't know he voted against it.

I said, well, Christ, he could get away.

And he fell on Smith, that tower in Chile.

For Christ's sakes, they seem to think it would come the other way.

It comes, I think, on the basis of Lockheed.

This is Lockheed, and also, we've got Smith on that side of that.

That's the SAA guy that we pulled the fire from.

We did fire him and reinstated him.

Smith owes him.

That's why we put the guy down.

Why does he want him?

Because the guy got something on Smith's property.

It's his one presidential appointee in the whole administration.

He can have him.

Why did he give us such a turkey?

As you say, John, let me tell you something.

You've got to, and the reason I mention Jerry is you've got to, don't you, admire him for trying on this STM?

You know what has happened is, as he went, as he liaised and fights in the battles, he gets tougher and tougher.

He sees the leadership action and he starts to move in.

Now, the great advantage he's got is he starts with being a man of some integrity and honesty and principle and all, but he really gets head and shoulders out of all his colleagues.

Well, that's the point.

The pact he's running in is fairly mediocre.

You look around that room of leaders and ask yourself, who's after him?

And there's a pretty big gap.

But we know, the thing I was thinking with Jerry, though, is that he's a hopeful.

And that vote around, even in the House, it'll have a one hell of a effect.

Don't you think?

The probabilities are that with these rumors, right, that you're going to get your resistance pretty well organized.

Oh, of course there'll be resistance.

But how many votes do we have to change?

Not very many.

Five?

See, you lose by ten, you change by five votes.

And Jerry already had two or three in his pocket.

He was ready to change.

I said, we can't change by not getting the Republicans in there.

And also, the other thing, I put it square to me.

I said, no, we've got to have these votes.

And I said, if we don't get this, we can't get Lockheed.

And I also told her.

What they've got to do is to put the devil whammy on this thing, don't you agree?

That Magnuson and Jackson have got to tell the people in the House and the people in the Senate that they will not support Bakke unless they get support for SSG.

Don't you think it would be as bold as that?

Has Clark talked to them?

I'm sure he did.

Yeah, he really should, because they can wheel sometimes.

Tell Clark, Clark knows this, that he's got the hell out there to see them.

And with the message directed from the President on this indictment, that we need some House votes.

We don't need to be accountable for three or four votes, but that it should be on the basis of what's here, boys, and we get Lockheed unless we get SSG.

The dramatic damn thing about it, you know, it means far more than getting it in the first instance if we should turn this around.

Now, of course, once we get to the House, you say, well, if you've got the Senate, the answer is maybe not.

But you've got to have, maybe several other senators.

But even on that note, they have to have a conference sometime.

Now, what the hell do they do in that conference?

The House can't give everything away, right?

I just think it's great to have them embroiled in a fight about that while we're in shock.

They're currently not going to go to the full, though, which may make it easier to... Reflation or cancellation?

No, they're not.

They're not going to the 283.

Oh, I see.

They figured out that 170 or something like that is enough to keep it alive.

Keep it alive.

Yeah.

And they're going for that now.

I'm sure they'll pick it up in the transportation preservation.

Actually, then that pegs it lower.

See, that pegs the number lower than the cancellation cost.

That's exactly what they're after.

Just what we were talking about, Jerry.

Because the cancellation cost goes to tax loss.

Well, no, the cancellation costs alone are $80,000 plus $53,000.

Yeah, it's very substantial on direct cancellation costs.

Plus, really, see, Bo is arguing that they should repay the airlines the $85,000 that they got.

And that gets spoiled up.

Well, except that they have a liquidity problem, and they could really use his bill.

And Bo argues that this is a good way of subsidizing the airlines.

And so he's in there with an amendment to repay them.

Well, I have a feeling that some may feel that it wasn't the right vote.

What do you think?

I think some already feel that.

Yes.

And Pop is a typical example.

He feels very badly about this.

And I think he is right to switch.

Well, in the Senate, you only have to switch three votes.

And you've got Gambrel, Cranston, and Toney.

who ought to be out-of-manage here on the basis of logging.

Wasn't that an extraordinary statement by Tunney on the demonstration?

Yeah, that is just really strange.

I saw it, but it wasn't to the extent that I just saw the findings.

He made a speech.

In California?

No, in the Midwest someplace.

And he very hard, very hard-line.

He said that the liberal anti-war senators were now the captives of the crazies.

Oh, I saw the word, crazies.

You mean all the liberal anti-war senators?

Yeah.

Well, he's one of them.

Yeah.

He said that they had, in effect, been tied hand and foot by these last three days of demonstration.

He said that, something to the effect that tipping over old ladies' cars was not the way to persuade the President.

That the only way to persuade the President was with a majority of the Senate.

And he said, we can't get a majority of the Senate with people like this out in the streets running around.

And it's very, he obviously had a stutter

yes well he's a mirror image of kennedy on this yeah 180 degrees

Well, the press doesn't know what to do.

You don't think so?

I don't think so.

I, you know, I backgrounded day before yesterday all over the place here, and I had quite a large amount of the demonstrations and the presence.

That was just the light entertainment in the middle of the day.

Well, I think we probably had a negative effect.

He knows that we don't know.

Sorry, let him know.

But should we listen?

That son of a bitch, the way he's been mistreated by everybody, all by Johnson and the rest.

You're mild.

And he mentioned that he'd been...

in sessions like this before they write it around well the point is he's not going to get from now on i do not want to have ziggler or again or me or anybody else paid the compliment of ever having a session with him i think sometimes you you make a big mistake this was all right you know how this came i know the salon yeah i had to do it but if you're making them i don't want ziggler to

I just don't think it does much good.

I just think the cool treatment is better.

I don't know if you agree, John, or not.

Well, I think I made a little progress with this guy Rock the other day.

Now, the proof of the footing, though, will have to be in what he writes.

It's very hard to tell, but it just seems to be good tactics occasionally.

You've got the ammunition.

Yeah.

To confront these guys and say... Well, to make them think they're being adopted is simply that we've kicked it down.

Nosey.

He said, the son of a bitch is going to be on the air every night.

There's nothing we can do about that.

He's going to talk to 10 or 12 million people, so you better talk to him.

And I just think if I tell him not to keep trying to get him to say something, we want to say it.

Well, I'm sort of helping him.

I'll come back.

I'm on the spot with him because, see, one of the ways I got at him through Salak was to say, Rath is lazy.

He never comes around to see me.

He never has to see me in two years, which is true.

And so Rapper came steaming up and said, gosh, you know, I didn't know I was supposed to see you, and this and that.

And now, if he asks to see me, I've pretty much got to see him to keep clean with saliva.

But we shouldn't help Rapper.

We should never help him.

But we sure should try to use him.

Because he's there.

Well, and we should wedge these guys.

You can't figure any of them.

You've got to play one against the other.

That's right.

You can't figure any of them, which is a four-year game.

That's right.

At the present time, ABC's kind of on the kick that's sort of against or against the reason.

They're kind of sort of, you know, the Browns and liberal elements.

They'll come around.

They're trying to balance.

Well, they were a little burned, too.

I think they got the feeling that they would have been...

Well, I think there's another explanation for ABC.

I think ABC is on the up, and I think NBC is on the down.

And I think as ABC is on the up and they're gathering listeners, they're trying to broaden it.

And they're appealing to that.

They're making a bigger listening audience on the right than there is on the left.

And that's what they may be missing.

Could be.

But I think they are making an aggressive effort to broaden their listenership.

It's exactly like making an aggressive effort to broaden its readership.

And it's almost collapsed.

Back then, it was a wholesome middle American magazine.

It's a reader's digest, which is a wholesome middle American story.

It survived.

That's right.

I got a tip, Dave, for you yesterday, that lights suppress.

a scandal article on the Virgin Islands, which touches Humphrey and the whole Democratic hierarchy.

No, Paiwanski and a lot of bribery and a lot of hanky-kanky and a lot of Udall.

And I've got the name of the reporter, and he's not with Life anymore.

And I think we ought to try and get at him and find out what it is.

You're really...

Well, this guy seemed to think we could get him.

Oh, all right.

Well, Ron had the wires, and he had John Carroll, the Baltimore's phone, and then he had...

Kaplow, and you had Gerald, and you had the guy from Metromedia, and three or four others in there.

It was very interesting.

They don't know what to think, really, about this demonstration thing.

They really don't.

No, no.

Some of them very vigorously did not support it.

But they're ambivalent.

And Kaplow,

is, I think, the epitome of the frustration of the press corps.

He's sitting there saying, but why aren't you willing to just say that if somebody was wrongfully arrested that you'd regret it?

You know?

And...

I said, well, that's a hypothetical, Herb.

Why in the world should I permit an inference from a hypothetical?

The line that I think Ron should be pushing background-wise is Severide's line, which is a superb argument.

on the Virgin Islands, which touches Humphrey and the whole Democratic hierarchy.

No, Paiwanski and a lot of bribery and a lot of hanky-panky and a lot of Udall.

And I've got the name of the reporter, and he's not with Life anymore.

And I think we ought to try and get at him and find out what it is.

You're really...

Well, this guy seemed to think we could get him.

Oh, alright.

Well, Ron had the wires and he had John Carroll, the Baltimore's son, and then he had Kaplow and he had Gerald and he had the guy from Metromedia and two or four others in there.

It was very interesting.

They don't know, they don't know what to think, really, about this demonstration thing.

They really don't.

They all supported it, didn't they?

No, no.

Some of them very vigorously did not support it.

Really?

Yeah.

I didn't see one.

They did it for the wrong reasons.

They're all the hair-scarring person, aren't they?

Yeah, but they're ambivalent.

And Caplow is, I think, the epitome of the frustration of the press corps.

He's sitting there saying, but...

Why aren't you willing to just say that if somebody was wrongfully arrested that you'd regret?

You know.

And I said, well, that's a hypothetical, Herb.

You know, why in the world should I permit an inference from a hypothetical?

Well, they just wandered right out there and said, well, I'd also regret.

The line that I think Ron should be pushing background-wise is Severide's line, which is a superb argument, which is these people that are hollering about the denial of justice are the very people who wanted to break the whole justice system by shutting this town down.

The people who are crying about the lack of health facilities are the people who wanted to break down our whole health delivery system by blocking the hospitals and frustrating ambulances and shutting down the system.

The people that are decrying... Why do you think Senator Wright did that?

I think he just fed up.

I think he fed up with it.

Yep, I think he did.

And he lives here.

He was talking like

You know, the thing that was very interesting, John, today, to me, talking to these people, I of course knew that the police had handled themselves well.

The commander of the troops, the 9-3 star, the 2 star guy, and not the 9-3 star guy who was kind of a clown.

I don't know why we had him, but I guess we had him.

Oh, it's perfect politics.

It's essential we had him.

But anyway, the commander of the troops, the 2 star guy, is quite impressive.

And he said, you know, he was, he said that, you know, he refused money and he stalled it.

He brought in $10,000.

He said it cost $2 million.

Wow.

The transport.

Yeah.

The transport.

Yeah.

And he said, what was really something these people have been wondering about how these people would act when they had to be put to the test.

And he said they're missing what was heard.

They were having to deal with people of their own kind, of their own age, and they just did the right thing.

And he said, he said, our people didn't do it.

And I said, you have a lot of blacks in your police force.

And he said, how were they?

And he said, just the same.

Yeah, there was a columnist.

And there was a columnist that made a very interesting point on that.

He said that the people trying to tear down the system here were the sons and daughters of affluent, middle-class homes resisted by the sons

in the majority black of poverty-level cultures.

Isn't that a thing?

The juxtaposition in terms of who is defending the establishment is very interesting.

Basically, half of those people were Jews.

At least.

The blacks and the southern whites.

Because that's the other half of it.

The southern whites.

The Jews and the northern liberals.

There's a big chunk of it.

Yeah.

Well.

These guys that don't have a way to stay out of the service and didn't teach or didn't do all the other goddamn things that people did.

well you background you think they really are they don't know what they want to do i think they are i think they are really frustrated by this whole turn of events and they and they really don't know which way to turn they're turned off as open order was in this column he ran yesterday by the fact that uh we wouldn't pander and uh i saw him and i

just took the, you know, the standard line out of it.

And...

But we wouldn't pander about that, right?

Well, we wouldn't say that we were sorry or that it was dreadful that there was a constitutional breakdown or that there was a lack of, you know, adherence to constitutional principles.

Let me tell you why I did this thing yesterday or this morning.

I'm totally sorry it didn't work yesterday.

It didn't work today.

But the reason that the penitentiary as well had so much interest in the government

And we've done it.

Because there must be no question of pandering.

There must be no question of backing these people up.

Now they're going to have all sorts of lawsuits.

And there are people who are going to squeal about the rest.

But let these bastards on the other side get out on the other side.

The country does not want these things.

Nobody was hurt, seriously.

And you know, there's a right to protest.

And you realize, do people also know, it's like religion.

Freedom of religion means the right to have none.

And freedom to protest means the right not to protest.

Now, God damn it, there were a lot of people that didn't want to protest.

They wanted to go to work.

They had to be protected in that right just as much as the people had to be protected in the right to protest.

We've been pushing that very, very hard.

I think that across the country, a lot of cops and the rest, well, John, you know,

But what it gets me, I know Zipper is very much opposed to doing this because he's taking so much heat from these baskets.

I know, but I understand why he would.

He's there, and then he's there, and then the Maya, the hurricane.

But the point is, you don't even forget.

Remember the time at the Chicago Convention, John?

We all, I thought, Jesus Christ, let's all go in.

Everybody thought we'd go in and kick David.

When I walked right through that parade, I couldn't say a word against Dad.

They were for him.

And the people that had come over, that was a vicious thing.

His police were too chucked out.

They knocked those bloody bastards around.

Of course, those kids were bad, too.

Well, they were led by the same people these kids were.

They'd sit down at your office and say, you know, they threw you down the window.

Well, that was going on here.

Yes, sir.

A lot of that didn't get out.

Well, I tried to load some of that into these stories, and I guess some of it got in.

I know some of them in the news summary.

Of course, I know that one of the worst ones is the way they took pain.

The DAR call.

Yeah, it's horrible.

It's what you see in Mexico, called lesbians.

One of the worst.

Well, I think the columnists are going to write it their way.

They're going to slant it against us.

They're going to say the White House is terribly unsympathetic to the plight of these innocent people who've been arrested.

And that's going to pay off in the long haul because the guy out in the country is going to read that and say, good, they shouldn't let those bastards out.

We're going to net out.

in the long haul.

There's not going to be any.

I don't give a damn what the country thinks of it.

There's not going to be any cars.

We know what they were up to.

These people were not peaceful.

They didn't intend to be.

Those people that said, oh, we were just running around looking for the cherry blossoms.

Hell, the cherry blossoms have been gone for eight weeks.

They were looking for cherry blossoms.

They were looking for trouble.

And the guilty man is at home now.

There's nobody in there.

Yeah, that's right.

Your story about the lady behind you, that's a good one.

We'll take a lot of local heat on this, from the local press and from basically the ether access press.

I don't get one man.

I'm not so sure you're going to take as much heat as you think from that.

Well, the Congress stepped up to this.

The House stepped up to this beautifully.

They just gave bones and halves of cattle up there.

On the floor, on the saps.

Even the Greens stepped up and made ice cold.

Oh, did you?

They really rallied around, and I suspect Jerry and some of them, you know, stimulated them.

Well, even Carl Hubbard was arrested.

Yeah, he was arrested.

Well, he didn't have any choice.

He was a naked man standing there.

in the Senate.

What the hell did the Senate do?

I don't think they did anything on the floor.

They did speeches out and around.

Let me think.

I don't think so.

They haven't been meeting, you know.

They've just been meeting to adjourn.

They haven't had any business.

That's the reason.

That troops business, did he say how many they actually used?

I have the impression they used 6,000 of the 10 that they had.

Oh, I know.

At the high point, I think we had 6,000 committed to positions around here.

But here's your poll on the demonstrations.

Have you seen or heard about the demonstrations against the one in Washington this week?

We asked this on Thursday of the Veterans Week, the week the veterans were demonstrating on the way to St. Louis.

There's an automatic system here.

No, I'm looking forward to having a little lunch.

What's your evaluation of agriculture coverage?

Well, the coverage here was anything like that.

That work, we weren't going for it.

They are about the department.

Okay.

Awareness, that week was 77, unalert 23.

And this week, awareness 93, unalert 6.

So there wasn't any question of awareness.

Then approval.

In general, do you approve or disapprove of these demonstrations?

During the Veterans Administration, it was 32 approved, 42 disapproved, 26 didn't know.

32 what?

32 approved, 42 disapproved, 26 don't know.

And we asked the same question right after the press conference on May 1st, after the April 29th press conference.

The day, the Saturday and Sunday of the demonstration, at that time, 30 approved, 64 disapproved.

Disapproved went way up.

The approved stayed about the same as the veterans, and at the end of the veterans' week, the... Well, also, I had a chance to get a question on you.

Practically all of the don't-knows moved to disapprove.

Plus... Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's right.

That's exactly what happened.

All the don't-knows moved to disapprove.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, sir.

Last night.

Did you approve or disapprove?

No, I didn't approve.

And the night before it was 18 approved, 71 disapproved.

Okay.

11-0-0.

Now give the veteran's figure again.

That's the one that's in parallel.

The veteran's figure was 32-42.

This was 18-71.

I got it turned and exchanged it.

Okay.

Then we said, do you approve or disapprove of the way the Washington police handled the demonstrators?

Straight on, another public question.

Approve 56, disapprove 18, no opinion 26.

So they didn't know?

Yeah.

Approval is still 3-1.

Well, that's fantastic.

Do you feel the police were or were not justified in making mass arrests of the demonstrators who threatened to stop the government by blocking traffic into Washington, D.C.?

Justified, 76.

Not justified, 10.

Holy smoke.

Do you think the Washington police used too much force in handling the demonstrators, about the right amount, or were the police too easy on the demonstrators?

Too much force, 11.

About right, 40.

Too easy, 23.

Mass arrests justified, 76 to 10.

No question on whether you've got any problems there.

Of course, you didn't get any.

Well, the media has got you.

Bob, you didn't get any questions on it.

Well, I don't think there's much room for... No, even far right, because even the media that are criticizing the harshest are linking you with it.

So I think that's a plus.

76 to 10, wow.

Was 93% awareness.

1871.

That's not right.

No, I'm 32, 42 on the minimum, I think.

We don't look at all.

I don't think it's about any good thing.

Our own congressmen are trying to keep it right in our hands.

The reason is that we want to cover the sucker of these people.

My wife said we have to scare them right across the line.

This polling is not, it's just for our own knowledge.

This is good knowledge.

My wife thought that, but you ought to give it to Zegers so he doesn't feel it.

Not to you, but just for his own drink.

In fact, there's these left-wing press people, Bill.

And I hope that Christ will do the job.

We have an open-end question.

Anything you'd like to comment on on these anti-war demonstrations?

The answer will take a while to get to those.

It will be interesting to see how those work.

I said they'd be back later in the summer.

Just saying that.

And that's right.

I think we should have a posture of business as usual.

No extraordinary preparations and so forth.

Yep.

Nobody's been back to Chicago to demonstrate since the Democratic National Convention.

They basically don't like to be trusted.

There's no question about that.

They say, no, sir, they do not, in spite of the brave front and the fellowship and the jail cell and all that stuff.

They are essentially middle class, and they don't like to be arrested.

And I think they don't like what the records do.

That's right.

They all know that down the road, sometimes they're going to have to put a word to it.

Well, it's just a sort of a middle-class ethic.

It's a stigma kind of a thing.

You're arrested, you're put in a jail cell with a common criminal.

They consider themselves idealists.

And I really think that the arrest thing gets to them.

That's why so many of them went home.

I love it.

Yeah.

Well, it's a very interesting...

Just keep it right in her house.

The thing with us.

The general had a hell of a fine editorial yesterday.

That's something to do for you, isn't it?

You said something.

Yeah.

Well, it's all right.

It's fine.

That's about all.

Keeps a good copy of your line.

Yeah, right.

Good.

Isn't that disturbing?

Considering the hammering away that the media did.

Of course, the media had just enough of the trashing and the abuse of civilians and that kind of thing.

It offended people.

Finally got through.

Yeah.

Finally got through.

Do you think it had enough that it did offend people?

Must have.

The sight of these...

And I think me and Nate both played our hand.

You know that interview, that conversation between a hippie and a veteran of two wars?

Did you happen to see that?

Where they obviously had a camera behind each one of them.

And the kid was saying, what's wrong with stopping traffic and so on?

Isn't that better than dropping napalm on people in Vietnam?

And this guy's saying, look, sonny, I fought the two World Wars so that you'd have the freedom to go to school and grow up in a free country and back and forth.

And then these scraggly guys were saying, yeah, we fought in Vietnam, too.

You know, giving him a hard time.

And I think that kind of thing really turns people off.

Here's a guy just walking down the street, and he's confronted by these guys.

And the folks sitting at home, most of them are guys who fought in the World War themselves.

And they're really offended by this kind of thing.

Yeah, he was in the 8th Air Force.

Yeah, he's made quite a bit of the fact that he had a reunion of his crew, of his bomber crew.

And soldiers ain't the sort of thing, you know.

Yeah, well, it's not going on.

Well, one thing that he was pushing had to tie into this thing.

the boldest of Democrats in the world.

His courageous support of the Democrats, Kennedy's courageous support of the Democrats should be widely distributed.

Widely distributed to every editor in the country.

It should be distributed to every state chairman and so forth.

It should be widely distributed.

That's a damn good one.

Thank you.

I as well.

I'll see you in a minute then.

What's he saying?

Now, he deplored, must be speaking, you know, he deplored it in sort of wishy-washy modern, so he made, yeah.

Why don't you just, well, I guess, just get a little thing out of how old the Democrats, Humphrey, what he said.

I'd say Humphrey, Muskie, Teddy, how they've all, lumped them all together, how they've all supported the demonstration, period.

And the people who celebrate the two jobs, not now, do you think they do?

No, not this month.

It's all one, it's all murder, you know.

The beauty of the other, of the bad one having to come after the veterans.

And you could push, you could push McCloskey.

Well, this is how we did that.

Because, see, we didn't differentiate.

We didn't say that the veterans in the service of the veterans did any demonstrations.

Do you agree with these demonstrations?

And then...

A couple weeks ago, there was only a 10% spread between approval and disapproval.

Now there's a 53% spread.

That's quite a lot.

Well, that's what we thought would happen, that they'd give you some sympathy with the veterans, which they did.

Only 42 disapproving is pretty low.

It's the closest to an approval we've ever had in an administration, and we thought that when we were looking at it, that he had a problem with it, even with the ratty-looking guys.

I thought they were ratty-looking guys because they identified with the rest of the people as the time went on.

It's funny what runs through their minds.

I don't understand that.

If Kerry and...

300 of those guys had dressed themselves up.

Kerry looked pretty good.

He was... Oh yeah, but even he made concessions to the family.

He wore his fatigues.

Fatigues and all that sort of stuff.

But if they had come in straight...

Right.

See, he couldn't wear his uniform.

He wouldn't have to.

But he needed, he needed some, he needed to get his medals out for us, for evidence.

So he worked his fatigues in order to get his medals.

Right.

Anyway, any of these last, the next traders generally should just look like they should come in looking clean, wearing ties.

God, if they got a bunch of those in wearing neckties and decent haircuts marching down the streets, they'd knock this country over.

They sure would.

But there's a sort of a lowest common denominator phenomenon that works in these sites.

No, but these guys,

could cut their hair.

Of course, that would violate everything that they stand for in terms of being, you know, symbolizing the departure from the system.

Like this.

939.

They went for a thousand years.

That's enough.

That's all we got.

And they didn't bother with any more figures.

It was all unique.

That's just the impression.

We've got, we purposely loaded a couple, as you can see, to get some releasable questions.

How about if you round the approval question down?

Approval is back down to 50, 50-31.

Disapproval is down also.

That is, it seemed to me that if you bear off my point, we're not through.

And then I'm buying.

The don't know is up to 19, which is the highest we've been for a long time.

Here, if you have something in which public opinion is so strong in one direction, then identification of that helps you raise the evidence.

And I think that despite the fact that we all know, because we read between the lines and we say, well, they do this indirectly, they've got to hear us, they've got to see it symbolically.

It's interesting.

The improve or disapprove of handling Vietnam was 4841.

It's now 46-38.

Two points on approval use, three points on disapproval.

And the don't know went up to 16, which is, again, the highest don't know we've had.

Whenever it was, it was.

Strongly was.

Then you get into the vote question for next week, which is also kind of interesting.

Do you support President Nixon and his plan to end the war in Southeast Asia?

Both of them.

Now, before it was 72-18, now it's 71-16, which, in effect, is stronger.

You gain one point on the math.

The proposal made the Congress require the government to bring home all U.S. troops by the end of the year.

You want your commission to vote for or against.

Last week it was 68-20, 4.

Now it's 63-19.

So the 4 went down, so we don't know when they're going to sign it.

Would you favor withdrawing them and finding a stake over it?

Before it was $29.55.

Now it's $27.42.

We've lost some ground on that.

The don't know goes up to $31, or before it was only $16.

It may be the don't knows in this kind of a poll are because of the way that many questions are being asked.

We need to stop the same as it's been before and still have a strong $100.

Would you favor withdrawing them then?

30-160 POWs, before it was 1175, now it's 1061.

The WLF is up from 14 to 30.

The don't know is way high, all the way through.

And the don't knows comes out of the nose.

As it came out of approval, the don't know went up on there.

It was both ways.

Is that...

Typical, Bob, during a state shift of salmon?

No.

It's typical during a period of something like cattle.

During the cattle period, they don't know when to weigh up.

That's gracious because of them being on it night after night and they kick the don't-know-the-way-up.

It's during a period of when something's happening, but it doesn't form a trend.

Well, I think in Cali, I think there's no weather.

My intuition is correct.

This is not rough, but I have not identified strongly enough the law and order issues here.

See my point?

You always need to ask John to identify him for the winning cause.

And I just don't think we're identified.

I mean, we're on set and dancing around.

We've never said we regret it, but I don't know if it's got true.

We came down pretty hard on these backgrounders.

We considered it appropriate.

We considered it a highly satisfactory performance by the police.

And that's the way these guys are carrying it.

But, of course, they're carrying it as criticism.

He said that it was obviously pragmatic politics that forced us to do that.

Your point is strange.

He's very emotional on this.

Very emotional.

Why?

I don't know.

I was saying I might have him up for just a visit on it.

Yeah.

It'd be interesting just to say why you're so excited about this.

Yeah.

I'll do this.

Are we concerned about Nazis?

Well, you know, it may be some hidden thing.

He may have had a nephew in this thing or some friend of his may have been judged or something.

I don't know.

I'll get him then.

We'll just find out.

The list is certainly a good thing at this point.

I mean, it's just about where it's been, isn't it?

Yeah.

The spreads are exactly the same.

It's a 1931.

1931 spread.

5031 or 5334.

It's what's happened is some people from both the group and this group have moved to the Delano.

Always a part of it, maybe, is they see a lot of disturbance.

They've got to fix their confidence in anything that's like the Cali thing.

On the other hand, I think company has a point, John.

I think he's right.

He thinks that you've got to democratize.

You've got to get out.

And you've got to know that the president is a strong leader.

And he's by God set up for this himself.

See, at the time of counting, the Don't Know went up to 23.

Okay.

Way up.

The big change, though, was when I said something.

You understand?

That's my point.

But here, I had not had an opportunity to say anything on it.

I mean, since the press conference, I've said it.

Since the demonstrations began, it's just sort of leaked out.

And the next time the Don't Know went up, it went up to 16 at the time of the veterans' demonstration.

Then it went right back down to the 13th where it usually is right afterwards.

Now it's back up again to the 19th.

But there again, there again, we miss an opportunity.

Why not?

People tend to identify very directly and emotionally with leadership, but they don't see all these stylings that we see.

Sure, everybody knows the President, but you say everybody knows he supports you.

Not unless you get out there and in some way you've got to see it.

You've got to personify it.

You've got to say it.

You've got to see the guy right out there, frankly, on camera.

You've just got to say, I support these things.

Next time we have one of these, why don't we put you in a sidecar with a blue helmet on?

Well, you know, there was no accident.

Grayley ran around all these things.

And he told me, for no question, he told me, he identified as the guy that was leading the charge against the bad guys.

And we did not know that.

I mean, that's the thing that, it's the thing that Saylor does not really understand.

Basically, there are a whole group of DR people who are always trying to avoid, you know, irritate too much the people we have to live with.

And you should see them react and say, look, nobody has a constitutional right not to be arrested.

Oh, just a pencil, sir.

You need to say it.

That's right.

There's no place in the Constitution that says you're free from being racist.

That just drives them off the wall.

A very curious working concept of civil rights.

Most of his kids that are on wiretapping help the others.

People are on wiretapping.

People are for Hoover.

I mean, they're not for his age, but they're for the FBI.

The people are for the cops.

What the hell?

And that's why we should not be so sensitive on this issue, in my opinion.

I don't think we did this well.

extremely well, but I don't think we exploited it enough.

We had a goddamn city, and she was probably stepped up.

They're playing a numbers game on this wiretapping thing.

Oh, was that right?

About 10 times.

The administration had more wiretaps and all this.

I heard Rowan on the GOP last night.

Is there any question about that?

He claims there is, and he... Well, there is, because it's...

The question gets to the unauthorized taps versus authorized taps.

On unauthorized, by the court, we have the figures.

Those are the figures you're using.

Of course, we're much lower.

On total taps, we're much higher.

Because we have a law.

Because we have a law on the transfer taps.

I think he said just the opposite.

It would be worth getting that transfer all the way.

He said it the opposite.

He said we had more...

Unauthorized steps.

No, no, no.

It's wrong.

Well, I've been constant.

That's what he said.

I've got an automation basically to forget the authorized and unauthorized.

The national security checks, those are basically the unauthorized.

Are they ones that are not through court?

Right.

That's for twice as many in the Kennedy period.

And we've cut down, way down on those.

We've got a million right now.

Okay?

Yes.

We don't have any out of here.

He cut them all out.

It's a standard practice.

Before he goes out to testify.

So he better just get away with it.

Well, yeah, okay.

On the ground.

It's 8 o'clock in the morning.

They can't tell you about it.

I'll make some calls.

I think we've got to bring him in on the deal.

Okay.

I'm sure we'll get it together.

What about you?

What is your view?

Did you think of an idea?

Actually, we may not have exploited this enough.

No, I don't think so.

Oh, I think it's absolutely clear.

And the criticism is, which also helps.

The criticism is also directed here.

For all this stuff.

It's just right under our hands.

And I wouldn't tip it to anybody.

I wouldn't give that to anybody.

I wouldn't give it to Colson.

I wouldn't give it to anyone.

We'll have a question now, and then for a purpose, I would have missed them.

I wouldn't be there for the reason that I don't want people to know how really much Young for a turn called by these things.

Young.

I said that, again, the knowledge is power of questioning.

Knowing this gives you a hell of a lot.

I have to give those things again.

And then they have to run down the, how do they, the training numbers.

Well, on approval, it was 32 during the veterans' approval.

32-42.

All right.

Then, right after the press conference,

So what did you ask there?

What do you think demonstrations?

Same question.

There we said a series of demonstrations against the Vietnam War is taking place in Washington.

Do you approve or disapprove of these demonstrations?

30-64.

What?

30-64.

Okay, so 32-42 down to 30-64.

Right.

And then to the press conference to let it ride their cart.

Lastly, this week it was 18-71.

That's higher than it was last October, you realize that?

I mean, it's October 69.

Remember that period, 65.

Yeah, 68.

This is a lower approval, down 18%.

I think it was 21-16, I can't recall that.

And the approver disagreed with the way the police handled the demonstrators.

See, that's the straightest possible question I can get at, right?

56 approved, 18 disapproved.

Still a 26 no opinion.

Alright.

That's without giving any guidance.

Then we said, do you feel the police were or were not justified in making mass arrests of the demonstrators who threatened to stop the government by blocking traffic into Washington, D.C.?

That's a loaded question.

Well, but it's absolutely fact.

That was true.

It's precisely what they did.

Justified 76, not justified 10.

10-9, do you think the Washington police used too much force in handling the demonstrators?

About the right amount, or were the police too easy?

Too much, 11.

About right, 40.

Too easy, 23.

63.

63 versus 11.

And then Dan saw it and said, you know, support President Nixon's plan to end the war, 71-16.

That's, that's, that's something, well, one of these credits, if you see it as the end of the war, it's like, sure, I don't think it's Nixon.

But we put the Nixon name in.

We don't say, do you support the President's plan?

We say, do you support President Nixon in his plan to end the war?

I see.

So, I mean...

Yeah, it's kind of complex.

On Tuesday, they're going to announce the director of the Cancer Institute who will report directly to the president and make the thing in a message to Congress.

Saying the best cancer hospital institute in the country is in New York City, Sloan Kettering.

They put together a briefing or status report on the fight against cancer by Monday.

You can helicopter in there after the accessing of land.

which would act as a story setter for the announcement the following day.

Now, we wouldn't play it out.

We'd just do it.

Now, let's really accomplish anything.

Well, the reason it doesn't accomplish anything is something else, again.

There's no way to go into New York when the New York police always do it.

It's just having a hell of a lot of people out there.

You'll have the bastards out there.

No, we will not go.

Yeah, that's not it.

Don't go into the city at this point.

You can't do it without having New York's rattle come out from the region.

There's one story a day.

Go ahead.

Well, the question of doing the planning of Gideon's Army business group, you had said you wanted to get them on the letter, and you were going home.

The proposal to Congress, would you like to have your Congressman vote for the end of the war, you know, end of this year?

You know, in January, so it's 73 percent.

Our poll has shown on April 12th it was 63, May 1st 68, May 16th 63.

And against it, though, was 63 April 12th, right after your Vietnam speech, was 63-28.

Then I went to 68-20 after the press conference.

Then I was back down to 63-19.

The undecided along the way.

Our positions, he wrote it there.

Because right after the Vietnam speech, it was 63-28.

It was 28 against.

Now it was only 19 against.

It was undecided.

It was 9 undecided.

I was 18.

But this whole poll is high undecided for some reason.

It sure is.

And it may be the poll.

It may be the events.

It could be.

But then, even if it meant a communist takeover, it was, after the Vietnam speech, it was 2757.

No.

That's 2955 after the press conference.

You lost a little ground there.

Now it's 2742. 29...

Quite a little ground there.

2742.

It's still strongly numb, but it's not by anywhere near that.

It used to be 2 to 1.

On the question of the POWs, it was 1175.

Now it's 1061.

Well, we lost a chunk there.

But all done and decided.

This pole has a very big, one of these, has a very big undecided one.

Okay.

Wow.

This is the Marvel's charge on the Hulk Cap.

I'm sorry to see that.

He's got a little problem now.

Well, I don't know.

We've got to find out.

I hope to help you guys.

He claims that it's a fixed fix.

But I don't know if that's on my answer.

We've got to find out.

It's pretty hard to put that kind of a fix on it.

There isn't something there.

The definition of sodomy, it says sodomy.

I think that's a little bit more than that.

I think sodomy is what it is.

I think sodomy is probably sodomy.

Spotting me is an unnatural act.

But anyway, I hope he's still with us.

I don't think I should right now.

Until we know what the thing is, he doesn't want to do us any harm.

That's right.

And if he gets cleared, then you ought to give him a call.

A little problem.

Who knows?

These people, you know, the highly, you know, the artistic types do have those problems.

They'll run around, you know, and so forth and so on.

We are that quiet enough to just think about it.

It just may be that this morning, aren't you?

Yes.

I think that was a very good thing.

That made a strong statement.

The next craziest police go very big on the day of the thing.

which was a good time for it to ride.

In other words, before you do, you weren't waiting to see what the results were.

You were praising them for the way they moved to handle it to begin with.

That got big, yeah.

And got a very big play.

There hasn't been much this week.

A lot in between, because there hasn't been any direct statement out of here or any direct involvement.

You see, I've watched those numbers and all those minutes, and now, I mean, Ron just gets a little bit of a...

He gets lost hammering his thing from there, doesn't he?

He doesn't even know who to see.

That's right.

He's avoided it.

That's right.

He just said, well, the president doesn't say anything about it except that he does not back, does not regret it.

Well, you know, he's not, he said it's fully satisfied and proves it.

But they don't use it.

They won't use that because that's not what they want.

What they want is it, but he regrets it.

And I believe civil rights were obstructed to, and because I think they may know themselves that this is a position that can help us.

Exactly.

So, you've got it.

Now this thing, why didn't they get a little play tonight?

Why not?

It would have been better to have done yesterday timing-wise, but you wouldn't have gotten a play.

You'll get a better play out of it tonight.

You think so?

Yeah, I think you will.

Because you had that with the unpleasant and the farm business out here and all that stuff yesterday.

And also, it would not have been good to have tried to top the farm story.

Much as we, you know, in the farm store, we had to play it out, so we did it.

Well, he would have gotten the negatives on it, whatever he did.

He needed a positive on it.

The way we could get it across to the states, you know, if you did this, you could have Colson to have these congressmen, loyal congressmen and senators, some of them, command the president.

You know, I know they can't get a letter or anything, but they got one.

I think, you know, we could get people on the phone and take it.

They are, and then it gives you a basis for it in some way to identify with it.

I don't know how to do it.

We've still got a lot of guns.

Yeah?

We've got this war group moving around.

We've got .

Do you realize that?

They're all on the wrong side of this issue.

They really are.

Now, John says a lot of them are really troubled and really are against this.

They really are not.

They are against it for the wrong reasons.

That's right.

They think serving the anti-war cause.

That's right.

They would be bored if they thought of helping the anti-war cause.

That's exactly right.

By God, that's a hell of a thing.

And, uh, I just want Colson to...

They're against it for the same reason that Tunney's against it.

Do you, uh... Do you want to let... No, I don't think you ought to give Colson the figures.

He's like a...

I can just say that we get hard.

We're a damn solid bunch of people.

Right.

And really, I think we should have top priority.

Nobody knows who even pulled this.

We should.

standing by the police, watching.

And then I told her, it was later that she was not getting put out there.

We just, we're going to do the same thing if anybody comes in again.

We're just putting people on warning.

This town's going to, the government's going to run.

This is going to be a peaceful and orderly city.

They might find us over a period of time, probably pick us and accretion us here.

on this issue, don't you think so?

I mean, the debate goes on.

I've got an idea.

Is it worth, in this instance, is it worth the lady say something on this?

The president deserves great credit for his firm leadership.

Could he say that?

I mean, I don't think he would call out and say that.

I think it's very important to him.

Hey, we know that this is an overwhelming majority of people's voices leading to Mitchell.

Let me give Mitchell one, just one figure, you know what I mean?

And if he could say it, he would say, you know, should we let him talk?

No?

I'm afraid he won't do it, but...

Why the hell should he though?

He's going to hit the thing anyway.

Why can't he do it in terms of saying he's just commenced?

The president, we have a president who stands firm against disorderly conduct.

Against disruptive conduct.

He kept the government, he keeps the government going.

And if Buchanan's going to go off on his trip, who the hell do we got around to write that sort of thing right now for everyone?

Let's see.

I think this guy's a sapphire.

You know, he's got a lot of big goals, some of them sound interesting.

They've kind of got pretty much the same.

Would you, or do you think, do you think, let's let Agnew, I don't think Agnew should hit the kids.

I mean, I mean, they, you know, he did.

Let me say, as usual, stop.

Yeah.

He's going to talk about it anyway.

Go to the positive side of it, which is that he could be very positive about the remarkable achievement of how this all ended up at the back of the president.

I think that's enough, as Mitchell and then let Dole work with you.

I mean, let Colson work with you, Congressman.

You know what they do to these cockroaches in here?

You gotta damn dang.

All the rest of it was just rushing in there like hell.

That's why Teddy must have this kind of information.

I can't understand why he went the way he did.

It's got to be, it's got to be him.

Well, now, unless he just thought he was in the highest priority, saying what they'd like to hear.

The highest priority, Colson's got this.

We used to hang the Democrats with this.

Tie it into the demonstrators.

Tie it into the police.

And let's try to go both ways.

If it's them, we're going to take them on.

You know, he could take on, I didn't know he could take on any kind of deal.

And then go on, and then again, as I say, let's take on Muskie for his support of the demonstration.

Without mentioning his disavowal later.

Okay.

I think that's what you're mentioning.

A lot of, uh, a lot of reaction.

Who's speaking on Alex's end?

How do they all think they're going to make anything look bad by having him step up to this and having him step up?

And the guy goes, and I mentioned he's going to be all along the streets of the sheriff's anyway on Monday.

He might get it very hard out there.

He worked with the president, the president worked with him, and he was...

We have a president that supported the chief of police.

He supports him now.

He supported him in the first instance.

And he supports him now when he's under attack for enforcing the law.

And he will support law enforcement officials when they enforce the law fairly.

Something like that.

And some officials can get that into a speech.

That's it.

Thank you.

The movement has been mainly to the, it's been almost exclusively on the side of this.

Yeah.

And on our previous poll, the last one you took, the poll, it was 53-33.

Our last poll was right after the last press conference was 53-33, right?