Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on public opinion and demonstrations

34:34Your Glen Campbell did all right last night.
34:37Yeah, he was fine.
34:42Very good.
34:43He doesn't have a problem with me.
34:47I mean, he's better than Cash.
34:48Yeah, Cash has got a little more wholesome than Cash.
34:51Yeah, Cash has got a little bit better.
34:53They're both fine.
34:54But Campbell's a good Glen.
34:56Oh, he's fine.
34:59He's very wholesome.
35:01Good choice for him.
35:02He's very big, around 177.
35:03Must be some good stuff to give him.
35:10Yeah, he is.
35:10The thing is, he's kind of a blind guy.
35:13He's got the...
35:14He doesn't have the flash that most... Oh, he's got it.
35:18He's a completely small cop.
35:20Oh, he doesn't get his command.
35:22Oh, that's right.
35:36Is there anything you want to line up now today?
35:40Nobody's around.
35:43Erwin is here.
35:45Oh yes, he's out.
35:47Apparently he took off yesterday.
35:51He came in today, so he went on the last day.
36:01What do I have to do to get to Cole?
36:02It's a problem.
36:05Yeah, they, they, they, they don't always have it right.
36:12I just said we don't want to put the other one out there Sunday.
36:22Thank you.
36:24And you have set up a procedure.
36:31Now what we're doing on that one is,
36:35ORC didn't want to write quite as strong of a thing as we did.
36:41So we worked out a rewritten thing for their release, which is what we put out.
36:45Then we put a top sheet in.
36:48And then we put a top sheet on it that says the other stuff that says it even tougher.
36:53which is just a cover sheet that we used with the ORC release.
36:59And then we use that as the piece to go to the leaders.
37:03And what we're doing is our whole congressional crew, we're briefing on the significance of this thing.
37:08And then they have the responsibility of hand-delivering, but not just hand-delivering,
37:13meeting with the member, not him delivering to his office, but meeting with the member and pointing out what this poll says to the guy, rather than just saying, here's a poll.
37:24And then we've got enough people.
37:27And then giving each member a dozen copies of this poll and ask him, say, you might want to give this to other people.
37:39But I think, like Jerry Ford, carries that lot of stuff around for stopping and uninsuring us.
37:45The little cover will work through as far and as fast as we can get with them to get that out then.
37:54Let's see what the other one shows.
37:56Yeah.
37:58And I don't think there's much on the other one that can show what it was for the last few minutes, actually.
38:06This is the myth that people want, and it does it very hard, and the cover sheet does it even harder, but we want to offer the virus a consequence.
38:14It just says, pull out poll, mislead.
38:18That's what we're using as the headline.
38:21And then we make the point that highly publicized and widely misinterpreted polls, saying 73% want out by the end of the year.
38:27It is, you know, we can't share it with y'all.
38:36and go to Gallup with this and make the point there.
38:41Right, sir?
38:44Because it is.
38:45We're on summit ground.
38:47We know we're right now.
38:50The first time we did it, I dealt with the figures.
38:52I knew I was right statistically.
39:00We asked the question about the if, what if, and then communist takeover.
39:04We only asked the people who said they were in favor of the congressional resolution.
39:08Then I added no on the first question and then no on the second.
39:12That's a perfectly sound thing to do, but it looks like you're going to turn it off.
39:16But then when we pulled it the other way, we got exactly the same answer, which proved that the technique was right.
39:23Yeah.
39:24Which we knew it was, statistically, but it looked like you were looking with the figure.
39:27No, we didn't.
39:28I guess looking with the news turner, you really got fond of that suit guy right there.
39:33Oh, we did, by the way, thank you for this panel.
39:35According to some of the stuff here, because they picked up the Larry O'Brien deal.
39:38More than that, I would say, it's more down here.
39:43There's an old television where it says, Tom, Gerald, and all of them.
39:50They followed up with the anti-stuff on farm problems.
40:00They all led the thing with your deal with the agriculture department.
40:07So we got our story out and they came on saying that's just fine but the farmers aren't happy.
40:15Always unhappy.
40:16I think the fact that they're jumping on this as hard as they are just in case they don't want us to get away with it.
40:24They're building it up.
40:26Who put it up?
40:28Did we have to put up the tactic?
40:30No, and they didn't.
40:31I don't know.
40:33We've got to get such a goddamn thing out.
40:34We've got to get that thing right.
40:35They just made it up.
40:36It's nobody's business.
40:37They're also using $100,000.
40:38It's nobody's business what it is.
40:41I mean...
40:44And we'll run into the same thing that, man, what if I'm not going to have that available?
40:47So you're not going to be put out again, right?
40:51We know what the thing cost.
40:54I paid for it all anyway.
40:55I can't imagine seeing this thing.
40:56For instance, the manufacturers paid for a lot of this stuff.
40:59Of course they did.
41:00This is a permanent agriculture department exhibit that we've got up here.
41:03Now, let's do like now, right?
41:05The world of the camera.
41:06You can show me you've got to have some of that.
41:07You couldn't have a better staff, man.
41:10Whatever.
41:11But you know, John is not PR conscious.
41:13We should have had a PR guy on the goddamn thing.
41:17And I suppose there's nobody there to coach him against, too.
41:24I don't know about this senator or anybody.
41:27I don't want to get away with that.
41:29Well, it sounds like we just, we just took 70, you know, it doesn't sound important to you or me.
41:34We know 70,000 is nothing.
41:35It does kind of make a jerk out in the country.
41:37He says they spent $70,000 on her to prove they love the farmer.
41:40You know, that just sounds good.
41:41That's what I thought.
41:42I thought, well, Brian, I just think we weren't this.
41:45went with it and then moved it up to $100,000.
41:47That's pretty awesome, using $100,000.
41:48All right, well, they're getting there.
41:50Yeah, I think you've got it.
41:53Are you about to figure it out, or are you about something else?
41:56They all, I guess the press is a goddamn unfair.
41:59And to find out that there are only 16 farmers that have been here, well, you double, you've got 32 with their wives, and they're all down as hell.
42:12But the point is,
42:15But if anybody told me that they were just going to get in with the farmers, the crisis is far bigger, it's far bigger, it's far bigger.
42:24As you go across the city, we have people, our editors, we have bachelors from UD, we have people there.
42:36I'm not really blaming any of our people.
42:40I'm just telling you that it's a hell of a thing, a problem.
42:44You know, to work hard and put something on, you just get bombed.
42:47I mean, and this was about the home case.
42:50We didn't have that positive.
42:51I mean, we read it this time.
42:55You can tell Bob.
42:57It's all a little more negative than that.
43:05All the work on it, it's still, you're going to get that adverse stuff, the stuff that the farmers, because they've got a great half-hour bill that's servicing all the 200 TV stations.
43:33the whole sequence of the salute to agriculture.
43:36They've got the farm publications covered.
43:39It's going to be extremely good.
43:43There were only 16 farmers in the internet.
43:45What in the name of Christ were they talking about?
43:52Like when we had the labor there.
43:55We didn't have any workers.
43:57We had all the labor leaders.
43:59What are they talking about?
44:00We didn't have any farmers, but we had the head of the farmers union.
44:05We didn't have 16 farmers, but we had the head of the grains, we had the head of the farm bureau, we had the head of the farmers organizations, we had the head of the farmers union.
44:15It's not them to snap back on that table.
44:19Good God almighty.
44:34I mean, they call me, call me like they want, but they didn't do it.
44:44They were, uh, they, they completely distorted what we, uh, you know, the, uh, the idea that, uh, they said that they...
44:54I sent a statement on inflation and said that inflation was a major problem we had to continue to work on.
45:00You know what I mean?
45:01Of course, we didn't have Zegra down there.
45:03Nobody else was smart enough to read the press conference.
45:07They just go down there and play golf and screw around and talk with these jackasses.
45:12We really have got to get a little, I think it's my fault because I told them last time to try to do something.
45:19We've done our job with them and they screw us every time.
45:22Just let them whine, let them do what they want.
45:27Who we have down there, Schultz was down there, McCracken, of course.
45:38We pulled Connelly out of there.
45:46We probably should have kept everybody else home and sent Connelly down.
45:51Because Connelly would have carried the thing the other way.
45:56Oh, I can hear the whole rest of them saying, well, maybe, but this, you know, I don't know.
46:02People, that they don't pay any attention to playing.
46:05Peterson was on the internet, but he's not the...
46:10domestic economy that's why peterson business council's gone but don't ever submit that son of a bitch you listen to me again to do anything for i've done them now i've got important important time no six times six times because i've done twice a year and three times last year
46:31Let's just let him go for a while.
46:33He's got his thing together now, and his own arch-idiot ceremony in the business community.
46:40And this is a group we ought to really get going with.
46:43You know, last night, one thing that I'm sure you'll agree with me is that I do not have done, and I'm sure this, I don't know who, is responsible for it, but all of our members that they could pick out of California, why did we have to take Bruce here?
47:02No, I told them.
47:02They didn't have it at your table, did they?
47:09No.
47:10Okay, go ahead.
47:11I don't know.
47:15Why didn't we have our good enough there, for example, one half a farm?
47:35Of course, we had Brock, but that was fine, too.
47:37But I wouldn't have had, you know, we couldn't have a farmer.
47:40Why did we have to have Ruskin?
47:42I just really wondered.
47:43I don't want to have a list of, from now on, Bob, I don't want any list of people in there unless there's either our friends or a chance to meet our friends.
47:52One of the people who gave them was probably there because he said,
47:55probably gets the largest federal payment for not raising cotton with anybody in the country.
48:01I'll bet he gets it.
48:02He lives off the federal government.
48:05Sure.
48:06And he's no good.
48:06Did you notice that they published that list of farmers who received more than a million dollars for not growing stuff?
48:13He's honored.
48:14And I can't remember what a given was on it, but of the list, there were 10 or 11 of them.
48:19Seven or eight were California operators, California cotton people.
48:24And, uh,
48:25The rest were scattered around the country.
48:27Virtually all of them were in California.
48:31So that's one part of the California economy which they're supporting, but it doesn't do us any good as far as jobs or anything like that.
48:40Of course, the cotton thing is a disgrace, Bob.
48:48The reason is, the only reason to keep the program going is because of the southern centers.
48:53The centers in California, the southern centers, we need their votes.
48:55But it's a half of us, the southern operators, I mean, California operators.
48:59They're coming back.
49:00We're going to pop that vote.
49:01We're going to pop that vote.
49:02Is that cotton go free?
49:02That's one that sure ought to be done before you leave here.
49:05I'm going to go.
49:06Because that is a bad deal, right?
49:07It's going to be done.
49:11No, I don't take it very seriously, but when I saw that name, I just thought, now for Christ's sakes, there were three or four others in California, which I was glad to see.
49:22But Bruce kept that son of a bitch.
49:24Well, the thing that started me is, Rose had him on the list, and he may have supported us.
49:28He may have shifted and put some money in.
49:30But he had him on the list instead of you're taking him.
49:33I was just astonished.
49:34I mean, I thought, because we did it all right.
49:37Crossed that off, and...
49:40Or a lot of my people, which is good.
49:43Well, I figured that at least he should be on here.
49:45He's out in the conservative.
49:48He's against the kids, you know, wants people to work.
49:53Well, I was there to see that one of the kids in the first question.
49:57I heard when they took out over there was a 17-year-old kid who passed him up to arrest procedures and stuff and demonstrations.
50:04And he said, I think, well, let's support you.
50:08And once you did, everybody cheered.
50:11Having it come from a kid, rather than some old farmer right by the farmer.
50:18One of the kids at your table?
50:20Uh, yeah.
50:22Future farmer.
50:24It'll be worth doing anyway.
50:29It'll be worth doing in the farm community.
50:31It probably may not have been worth the price.
50:34Oh, there's one negative job that we did.
50:37It's a one-day job.
50:38I think he opened an engine and he was smart enough to use it.
50:42He doesn't catch very many.
50:43He hasn't gotten very many.
50:46He hasn't had so much, but he had a good line on this.
50:51He said, why spend this?
50:52Farmers would be a lot better off if you'd spend this to help the drought problem instead of setting up a circus on a lighthouse lawn.
50:59And so it's a pretty good pitch.
51:01But I'm not sure it gets in anymore with anybody.
51:03It looks good.
51:05Well, Dolo's been, of course, all out for this thing anyway.
51:12Yeah, I mean, he's all out for the farmer.
51:19They said everything we do, we get hit and we're going to keep on.
51:22They've got a good thing going on.
51:24It's on this damn PR thing.
51:25Every time you smile, they write a thing saying Nixon's trying to create a new image of being friendly and warm, you know, because he smiled.
51:33If you have a kid on the shoulder, they're going to put the...
51:37I guess he didn't see what I could do with that unless Max Frankel was getting the award tonight for this dinner.
51:45I would not have gone to the dinner if I knew.
51:47I would not have gone.
51:50They just announced it.
51:53I'm not going to go when the award is presented.
51:56So let me just be sure that he knows.
51:58In fact, I'll delay my arrival until a little later.
52:00I am not going to be there.
52:01And that's not what I'm going to do.
52:03I will not have a picture taken.
52:11They worked out a painting, a presentation to you, which I'm going to use now.
52:15Yeah.
52:15Say it again, please.
52:18Yes, sir.
52:19Do you see what they're doing?
52:21They're presenting the next torch that they've got, the silversmith made, that symbolizes the American Revolution, tries to cut Adams and the Jefferson and the Nixon equivalent.
52:31They've done all they owe.
52:32That's a very classy gift.
52:33They do that.
52:34That, of course, thank God you have settled it in there.
52:37Yes, sir.
52:38I don't want to go there to honor Frank.
52:41I'm going to be there.
52:51Well, you're right.
52:52We just go ahead and hit him a few yards.
52:54Don't worry about that.
52:56We just got to do it.
52:57We'll get hit in the face every time.
52:59Ron, one thing I want to make sure that you could be on the call with us.
53:04No, I talked to Mary, the chief, and I'm getting ready to go to him right now.
53:07They don't vary our line.
53:09Yes, sir.
53:09I told him that I wanted to be sure that everybody knew that this would be the policy this year.
53:20Boy, it's just come through so loud and clear that way.
53:23A few people that have gone the other way have just, yeah, well, I mean, uh,
53:28That's why it is that we have not identified any strong policy.
53:32That's the problem.
53:35And God did that to us.
53:36I was chanting last night, and they called at us, but they don't realize.
53:40You see, we read the little things we put out here, the press things, and I call the policemen.
53:44But I've got to get up and say it now and then, you see.
53:47And I feel very strongly about this.
53:49I always have.
53:50And sometimes you just got to frankly do it.
53:55You've got to get up and say it.
53:59You must worry about it.
54:00You see, don't worry about it.
54:01Of course they're going to yell for it.
54:0430 days, they're going to have a little civil rights son of a bitch saying, well, why did they have him?
54:07My little boy wasn't here for that.
54:09He was just in town with a cherry blossom tree when we were gone.
54:12You're going to have to say that anyway.
54:14You see, we're not going to get blamed anyway for it.
54:17We're not going to get blamed anyway.
54:18Take the hard line and stick them right in the puss.
54:20See, that's the way you have to handle it.
54:23I think the civil rights people are probably going to yell a little bit ahead here.
54:29However, I do think I'm recovering the association with this and part of the president because what you said in the press conference happened.
54:40And you told that to a lot of people, that those who broke the law would be arrested and it was going to be dealt with in a firm way and that the government was going to be kept open.
54:48You told that to some 60 million people.
54:51And those people know that that happened.
54:58Commended them all for, you know, that I wanted to be understood.
55:07The way that this will be the powerhouse.
55:13This is going to be the future.
55:17This is going to be an open city.
55:19And it's going to be a safe city.
55:28I hate when a dean has got to do three quotes at a time.
55:30I got that from him, yes.
55:33I've talked to him.
55:34In fact, the right of protest became the right not to protest.
55:36The right of people can do either.
55:38People are not, they're not going to engage me with a legal comment.
55:47I'm not going to go to jail.
55:49It came true very hard.
55:50And they can say we're trying to get my head in the hole.
55:52I've been saying it from the beginning.
55:53Who the hell gave me the order to do it Saturday night?
55:58I want to tell you, I was horrified to learn that Franklin was getting the award tonight.
56:02I will not be at this dinner at the time he gets that award.
56:04I will not be there.
56:05I will have a picture taken with us on the bench.
56:09Now, do you know what the schedule is?
56:13Hang on, sir.
56:14Can I just go right at the last, or the singing, or something like that?
56:17I will not do that.
56:19Thanks, Franklin.
56:21You had the schedule.
56:24Yeah.
56:27You go the end of Strollway at dessert.
56:28It'll be very easy, I'll just be late.
56:35You go to dessert and then they present the Raymond Clapper Award to Bingham Awards as you go around.
56:40That is, that's John Settle in St. Lawrence.
56:42Jack Settle.
56:45I'll go to his F.K.
56:46Award, he's getting the Raymond Clapper Award, isn't he?
56:48That's right.
56:51You see, the Raymond Clapper Award traditionally goes to a left winger.
56:56Always does.
56:57And this year, they picked the right one.
56:59They picked Ed Frankel.
57:01So I'll be God damned if I'm going to be there and have any connection with him.
57:06First, I don't want any connection with the Raymond Clapper Award, period.
57:08Second, I'm going to have to have Max Frankel at the other times.
57:11I'm not going to be there to pick his name.
57:15I'm going to go with the left winger that way.
57:17So I'll work it out.
57:18I'll just get the lead.
57:21The program, as of now, is that you come in, have dessert.
57:29Then, right after dessert, they present the awards, then John Sutherland's remarks.
57:38Then the entertainment.
57:41At the end of the entertainment, Sutherland presents you with this.
57:44You make remarks.
57:45Then Sutherland
57:49He closes the meeting and escorts you out of the hall.
57:52You go to the Delaware room with the photos of the entertainment groups and the head table.
58:07And then you're out.
58:12He and David meet you there and you return.
58:17I think he comes from the audience.
58:19to get that award.
58:23The head table looks like it's the cabinet officers and officers of the association.
58:25And Rob Ziegler.
58:26Well, I'll work it out.
58:27I don't know, but I will not be there when he's on the benches there.
58:33To be sure of that, I'll just find a way to get there in time to hear the action.
58:40But I'm not going to be there to honor Frankl.
58:44If it's time for an award, it's better than for
58:49No, no, no, yes.
58:51Just let me know.
58:57It's better you don't know about our office.
59:01No, no, no, yes.
59:16I don't think we've got to get a definition like this that we needed, that we need.
59:37If you disagree, it really happens.
59:43If it was good to do this, I think it's good to hammer that identification in.
59:45But I think it's very strongly there.
59:48Maybe we do it.
59:48There's a lot.
59:49You see, we can do a thing, Bob.
59:51It's like the way we handle our foreign policy.
59:57We do things extremely well, whether it's Jordan or the next lifetime that we leave.
1:00:00But there are very good things we're getting credit for.
1:00:05Because, and it's this congress point, the congress of the continent, we've got to have a dynamic.
1:00:13You know, you gotta get out there and try to take as great as you can and get the hell out of the limelight when you don't want to be doing anything.
1:00:22We talk about PR quite as we, uh...
1:00:28That's absolutely right.
1:00:36I'll tell you what, I agree.
1:00:39I think we can shake that whole thing up.
1:00:44Can you?
1:00:45I'm going to try.
1:00:47Yeah.
1:00:48I think
1:00:53Now, I want to talk with Ken Cole, who was really the key to getting some of this work done yesterday.
1:00:58He's a good man.
1:00:59That the whole Ed Morgan concept is wrong.
1:01:03I've always thought it was wrong, and now I'm absolutely convinced.
1:01:06Well, the idea of putting Ed Morgan in charge of selling the domestic program, you know, and setting up this separate app, right?
1:01:14But the reason it's wrong is that it's the same.
1:01:17It's the same getting out of it.
1:01:21by the people that should be doing it, as when they looked at Herb Kline's office and said, why doesn't he sell the program?
1:01:27Now you've still got Bud Krogh who's in charge of dope and narcotics.
1:01:31Okay, now Bud Krogh works up his program.
1:01:33He says, there's a good program about narcotics.
1:01:35And he says to Ed Morgan, you go sell it now.
1:01:37Now that's wrong.
1:01:39The guy that's got to sell the program on narcotics is probably the commandant's head, and the attorney general, and the narcotics division.
1:01:47Those people have got to sell it.
1:01:49Not a line of area crime.
1:01:50They've got to sell their programs.
1:01:52That's right.
1:01:53But reorganization, you can't turn it over to Ed Morgan to sell it.
1:01:57The guys that are reorganizing have got to be on selling it.
1:02:01And the whole thing, Elliot Richardson and the people there have got to be doing it.
1:02:06But Cole sees this.
1:02:08He's the only guy I've been able to get this idea, you know, went through and I just can't get it through to anybody.
1:02:14I'm going to try again.
1:02:17But Cole, Cole sees what I mean.
1:02:19What I said to him was that I think you've got to, first of all, and you may not buy this, and I'm going to try hard and early on this, I don't think that there's any point in the domestic counsel for those guys who are very capable and good guys who are spending more than ten minutes
1:02:34between now and the end of next year.
1:02:37developing any domestic programs.
1:02:40I agree.
1:02:41Because it doesn't make a shit bit of difference.
1:02:45I mean, next year, sure, if they decide to go into tax reform and drive you out of it, that's fine.
1:02:51That's your one initiative.
1:02:55But if you don't have that, talk about foreign policy and reiterate your other stuff.
1:03:01And just say we're still hammering for it.
1:03:03This goddamn Congress hasn't done it.
1:03:04What's the matter with you people?
1:03:06But we don't need another new initiative.
1:03:10The other thing that I've said is, let your guys, you say they're overworked, and they're so busy on all these things.
1:03:16Let me say something to you.
1:03:18In my view, every one of your guys, you could write today, take half of what he's doing, and eliminate it, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
1:03:27You're absolutely right, except that it really is three quarters of it.
1:03:31What I'm trying to teach you is that every little problem that comes along, they feel they have to deal with it, polish it, and get a lot of papers, and work it all out, and make sure it's done right.
1:03:42Michael, you have to.
1:03:4390% of what's done here, if it's all done wrong, and it can't be all done wrong, because we aren't that bad.
1:03:49If it's all done wrong, it won't matter.
1:03:51Just let them do what's wrong, and spend your time selling it.
1:03:56and working on the one or two guns in each guy's area that we'll get some credit for, and getting the credit for.
1:04:03And then that's what those guys are worth something for.
1:04:06And John's got them all now.
1:04:07They've been sitting around having these seminars at Camp David about what the issues are going to be next year.
1:04:13And I said, the issues next year are going to be the economy and the war.
1:04:16And you guys could come up with 17 new American revolutions, and you wouldn't make one tenth of 1% difference in the vote for president next November.
1:04:27But if you come up with a thing that develops an impression between now and next November that Richard Nixon
1:04:32has accomplished all kinds of monumental things, that can make a difference of 10%.
1:04:38Even though they're not monumental.
1:04:43But it's what people think they are.
1:04:46I think it's a hell of a thing that they're giving you a torch about the New American Revolution.
1:04:54Somebody in the paper today, one of the left folk, Clayton Fritchie, writes a thing saying that the New American Revolution's dead, everybody can now relax.
1:05:02There's no danger from it anymore.
1:05:05Well, they're going to try and say that.
1:05:07I think we can keep hammering it and make something out of it happen.
1:05:11But down to the whole thing of the cancer thing, he said, you're absolutely right.
1:05:14If you see my point on cancer completely, he wrote that paper over the war things and never won over the game.
1:05:20And he agreed.
1:05:21And he said, I confess to total guilt.
1:05:24I have worried all the time I've been here, all my time, about trying to make sure what we were doing was right.
1:05:32And I say, Ken, forget about 90% of what you're doing.
1:05:35Don't worry about whether it's right or wrong.
1:05:37And just figure this.
1:05:39It's a judgment call most of anyone.
1:05:42Who knows what's right or wrong?
1:05:44And we aren't going to do anything that bad.
1:05:46We really aren't.
1:05:47I mean, it's just that we're right on the show.
1:05:49If we're right on the show, it's not that bad.
1:05:51I'm going to start taking that attack.
1:05:53I'll come to good with the extreme on it.
1:05:56which will push it some in that direction.
1:06:00Ken sees what I'm talking about.
1:06:02He agrees that the Morgan thing is a bad idea.
1:06:04And he says Morgan agrees that it's a bad idea.
1:06:07You don't need one guy responsible for all that.
1:06:10What you need is each guy responsible for his part.
1:06:13And then what we ought to do is program you from time to time to pick up a phone and say, God damn it, I haven't seen anything on Dota for a week.
1:06:20Now I'm not going to talk about it.
1:06:24Or like, what if I didn't get a kiss during the Christmas?
1:06:27Well, I should have gotten one little clip of it.
1:06:29But you know, or I should have given somebody a good kiss.
1:06:37It's not getting bought well.
1:06:39But there are all these things, there are a lot of them.
1:06:41You can keep fighting and giving.
1:06:45You can keep fighting and giving.
1:06:46You can keep fighting and one burger and you're at the same time.
1:06:49You know, get the money to where it matters.
1:06:50Now, one burger understands what you're talking about, but that's going to make a difference.
1:06:55Dan Ryan, he is a little antenna artist, and he loves the ideas.
1:06:58He meant exactly what he said.
1:06:59This will be the first political campaign I've been in where we have enough money.
1:07:03All of us have talked about that in all the campaigns.
1:07:05If we only had the Kennedy's money, you know how much fun a campaign would be.
1:07:09We do have the Kennedy's money this week.
1:07:10We have $200 billion.
1:07:12Well, in a sense, there's a lot of results coming through.
1:07:15But we have a few billion that are about that.
1:07:17We've got to be careful if we start spending the money in our own way and effective way.
1:07:25I think we're going to run deficits anyway, Bob.
1:07:29The whole thing is everybody's, let's face it, the problem that I've often said, when we go into this next year, the hell with the inflation.
1:07:43The other problem that John is dealing with that Ken disagrees with John completely, he said that in our seminars and stuff that we've been discussing, not only are we working on next year's legislative program,
1:07:53But he's very concerned about developing our program for two years ahead.
1:07:57Oh, shit.
1:07:58That's it.
1:07:58Jesus Christ, Ken.
1:08:32The problem is we're over-organized.
1:08:33I agree.
1:08:35I really think we are.
1:08:36We've gotten, and it was a very good idea,
1:08:40All we've got there are the Schultz operation.
1:08:42They've got the staffs.
1:08:44And so we're surviving the market.
1:08:46It's like Henry's over-organized.
1:08:48That's really the reason he's kept sending in too many papers.
1:08:51We've got to keep the little boys busy.
1:08:52But with the earlier staff, we've got the capability, if we can get John Turner in there, and I think we can, we've got the capability to shift that, because those guys are all politicians.
1:09:03Morgan, Whitaker, those people showed up, they're political guys, that we put into substance, and we ought to be able to shift their thinking.
1:09:13And it all went, I kept making the point to Paul, I said, Tom Cotney is the only guy we've got here who recognizes it.
1:09:17He said, well, Cotney knows you've got to do things right in the Treasury Department, but he knows even more quickly that doing them right doesn't do any good if nobody knows you did them right.
1:09:27And Cotney spends at least half his time getting the word out, maybe more.
1:09:34And that's what we've got to do.
1:09:35The whole, you know, the best, the best indication of the whole problem we've got.
1:09:42And I must say, I just can't believe it right now, but when you...
1:09:47And then you take one-tenth of one percent, which of course is statistically irrelevant on an employee.
1:09:55Statistically irrelevant.
1:09:57And then make that the lead story of all the networks.
1:10:00And when our, and that's what we start to remember.
1:10:02The lead story every day to the right.
1:10:04Now, that shows you what they can do.
1:10:06Now the point is, when it goes down in this, it's the lead story.
1:10:10You understand?
1:10:11We've got to make it, the way you said, sir.
1:10:12That is the whole point.
1:10:14And in all in all, when you come down, the way you did it, it's got to go down.
1:10:18You know what I mean?
1:10:19That's quite for sure.
1:10:19It'll take a little time.
1:10:22But one of the reasons that my press conference in San Clemente was so good in this respect is that I compared the labor office, particular, Klein, all the others, probably didn't read the goddamn thing, where I said that unemployment was the last number to come down.
1:10:38I didn't say it was going to come down.
1:10:41I know this story, and I said also inflation was still a problem.
1:10:44We had to fight it, you know.
1:10:46I mean, we didn't say that it was stopped.
1:10:48And here down at the business council, they rumble around, says the president shouldn't have said that inflation had been checked.
1:10:52I didn't say that it had been checked.
1:10:54But where did they know it was landing?
1:10:55Where did they know it was Schultz?
1:10:57Why didn't they speak up to one of these people?
1:10:58You've got to hang on right from the spot, Bob.
1:11:01You've got to understand, rather than, you know, farting around with them and saying, oh, gee whiz, it's all the time you're fighting some underwear assault this year.
1:11:09I tell you, we got the best bunch of guys at doing things.
1:11:12Worst bunch of guys saw things I ever saw.
1:11:15Well, Cole, Cole did not object to my changing that cancer thing to report to the president of DCY.
1:11:21The only thing he objected to was he hadn't thought of it.
1:11:24He said, obviously, that was the right way to do it.
1:11:28And he was very, he was as humble as this, but he had it the wrong way.
1:11:31He had it the way that I couldn't accept it, right?
1:11:34And now you've just got the whole goddamn thing reported to the president, rather than having it reported to A.G.W.
1:11:39Who the hell is A.G.W.?
1:11:40He said he, no, he has no argument at all.
1:11:42He thinks it's exactly the right way.
1:11:45He's very, he was very judgmental that you think of it instead of him.
1:11:49That's what I'm for.
1:11:49That's what I'm for.
1:11:50And that's why you see, actually, you've got to, the other thing everybody's got to realize is
1:11:56I've gotten Henry adjusted to it, and Charleston heard me adjusted to it.
1:12:01They sent in their papers.
1:12:02It's my job not just to take their papers.
1:12:05They aren't the president.
1:12:06I am.
1:12:07And I'm going to cross off things and decide to do it another way.
1:12:11That's what we've got to do, Bob.
1:12:12We've got to watch these things, because they haven't made these command judgments often enough, but don't know how important it is to do it one way or another.
1:12:22which is the whole reason for keeping you a step above those structures, so that you can't make that decision without trying being invited.
1:12:30But I didn't get in the business for a week or two.
1:12:35Well, I must say that on this, it's getting the president to vote.
1:12:38It may be that we're identified on this subject, right?
1:12:41But by God, after what we did this last week in Washington, I've got to be identified as a law and order guy.
1:12:48A strong law and order guy.
1:12:49No nonsense, no hippies.
1:12:51You know, apart from the war and everything else that we've been not letting after turnovers.
1:12:56And I don't want to be identified that way.
1:12:58I want to be a tough, god damn cop with regard to that thing.
1:13:01Now, you get the March of the Pigeons drums going a little bit out of the city.
1:13:05Now that they'll be back, they'll say, you're gonna lose the youth vote.
1:13:08You're not gonna lose the youth vote.
1:13:09You're gonna lose the youth ballot.
1:13:11But the people, the youth do not like these kids.
1:13:14I got certain things they're gonna like, so it's back to them.
1:13:18Look, they were ripping up, they did some terrible things.
1:13:21They don't like somebody standing nude up there pissing on the Statue of Liberty.
1:13:25Do they?
1:13:26No.
1:13:26I mean, it's terrible.
1:13:28They like it.
1:13:28I understand the long hair bed and dress, but you see those guys.
1:13:32I signed Dick Campbell.
1:13:33There was such a freaky little bunch.
1:13:35But they were good.
1:13:37And then the Americans.
1:13:39Well, you notice Campbell, you know, how he came through loud and clear about the president being a great man and all that stuff.
1:13:47He's a Southern Democrat.
1:13:49After the dinner, he was, that was good.
1:13:51Good for him to say that to that crowd.
1:13:55Repressed at the time.
1:13:57I didn't say impressed in the case.
1:13:58I just wish we could keep them out of those things.
1:14:01See those little bitchy women around.
1:14:06I'll tell you this.
1:14:07It was quite clear from that gathering last night.
1:14:12The part in the press attitude that they had to do with the farmers and the farm organizations and the farm press on all spectrums was extremely positive on the appearance of the second day of the motion department.
1:14:30They were all just really on a rave note on me.
1:14:31And I think you're going to get a hell of a lot of lines in the farm press.
1:14:33I think they will follow up on it.
1:14:35And I think it frustrates the...
1:14:37left-wing White House press to see you doing something that they know you are going to get some mileage out of.
1:14:42And they, they shafted the story.
1:14:43And that's... You can't do coverage on the labor thing either.
1:14:47They smeared at us for that.
1:14:48I know.
1:14:48It's still a good thing to do.
1:14:51But you can't do coverage in the labor press.
1:14:56Our main problem is still, we want to remember the presidential appearances.
1:15:00Except, I can't go, I can't get away from the fact, you know, my first thinking may be all good.
1:15:08Not next week, the week after next.
1:15:11Or two weeks.
1:15:12Two weeks, I see.
1:15:14But you just can't expect a man to go up there each night and say these situations.
1:15:18It's a, here's the economy.
1:15:20That's why economy coming in loud and clear is important.
1:15:23I'll get to that.
1:15:25On the economy, the sensible people, in fact, the fact that you look at the New York Times, of course, they have a very long story.
1:15:32They said it was a small, it was a...
1:15:36infinitesimal or something like that.
1:15:39This is not a significant thing, the point that they put down.
1:15:42Who the hell predicted it was going to be?
1:15:45I did.
1:15:46I didn't.
1:15:46McBracken didn't.
1:15:47Schultz didn't.
1:15:49Connolly didn't.
1:15:50I said at the end of the year, unemployment's going to hang high.
1:15:54But they're going to squiggle about it for a while now.
1:15:56And then they're going to be out and under.
1:15:59Oh, incidentally, you notice Muskie's going to have periods on arms control.
1:16:06If we got anything there, I don't kill him better than a mackerel.
1:16:13They're all way out on the limb on that one.
1:16:15They've all done it.
1:16:17If it does, we're in a perfect position.
1:16:21But you're right, Bob.
1:16:22You're absolutely right.
1:16:24It's totally wrong, and hey, it's half wrong.
1:16:29But you're right when you agree with me that the effect of salt is going to have a hell of an effect on this town.
1:16:38How are we going to know what the hell salt is?
1:16:43Now we can...
1:16:44I'm not so sure.
1:16:46It's hard.
1:16:48Well, people don't trust the Russians.
1:16:50People don't trust the Russians, but people are...
1:16:52I think you may have, with this national climate of concern about water and everything, a chance where if we can put salt in simple terms,
1:17:04Remember, for instance, look at the enormous plate that Kennedy got out of the test fan tree.
1:17:11Okay, but the test fan tree didn't mean a damn thing.
1:17:15Oh, sure.
1:17:17And yet it really, that was really its only positive thing.
1:17:22Oh, oh, oh.
1:17:22Because we can detect underground things, we should stop testing underground, too.
1:17:31He's a goddamn fool.
1:17:32He's a goddamn fool.
1:17:34I mean, that, that, that pivots us without a question, but we can't really get a list without it in it.
1:17:39How do we know we can't detect it?
1:17:42Well, on the test, on this thing here, here we're really gonna, we may have to come to the map of the bill if we get something on Salt Lake.
1:17:49The bill is going to be extremely
1:17:53You know, avaricious in regard to wanting to get the credit for it.
1:17:57You've got to do it on television.
1:17:58That's what you've really got to do on.
1:17:59You've got to do it on TV.
1:18:00And there'll be arguments for the effect of that.
1:18:02They don't want to.
1:18:04The Russians don't want it on TV.
1:18:06They don't want me to get the credit on it.
1:18:11I've got to do it.
1:18:12Bill and Jerry said they've got to get the hell out of the way.
1:18:16Let's do it.
1:18:17We do it.
1:18:17If we get it today.
1:18:18And if you want us to, we will.
1:18:20But we should call down the leaders about a half hour before we make a dramatic announcement.
1:18:26And go on TV, right?
1:18:27I don't know if there's enough parts to sit there.
1:18:30Put them behind the TV.
1:18:32Get all that there.
1:18:33No, I don't have that on TV.
1:18:34You may have the informing leaders.
1:18:36Have them in the room.
1:18:37It happens.
1:18:44Now, you know, Bob is speaking of, at least earlier than a Cholson arrest, they are totally dedicated consultants that are trying to build stuff.
1:18:53But goddamn Rogers, he tries in his own way, but he always comes number four on this.
1:19:00He sure does.
1:19:01He sure forgot all about who he worked for on this trip.
1:19:07All the talk is Rogers flying down there.
1:19:09Before, it's all been...
1:19:12And he's built it here.
1:19:13He's done a good job before.
1:19:14I disagree with Henry on how Bill has approached it up to now.
1:19:18On the Middle East thing, when he talks about it, he always talks about the Nixon plan and what the Nixon administration is doing and that kind of thing.
1:19:27And it may be not Bill's fault on the trip.
1:19:29It may just be the fact that he's there and the way the trucks are flying, I'm sure, as the Rodgers plan, that all the reporting comes out of today.
1:19:36I don't know.
1:19:38Roger.
1:19:39That may not be all bad.
1:19:40I bet you it works, Steven.
1:19:40I'm not too concerned it's not working.
1:19:43As a matter of fact, if we can get this to its ultimate abilities, I believe that would be a hell of an accomplishment.
1:19:51We can't leave without a victory.
1:19:53Of course.
1:19:56How did he do that?
1:19:57I'm not sure he had a good clip.
1:19:59I think he lost it.
1:20:01That's a whole hell of a...
1:20:02I'm not so sure.
1:20:02I'm not convinced.
1:20:03And I don't know how they can find out.
1:20:06He cannot even, he can't even go to the court until he has a victory.
1:20:08Secretary of State, well, that's the point.
1:20:09You know, because he stayed up.
1:20:13He worked hard.
1:20:15He has to pull everything off.
1:20:19What did he want for a year?
1:20:20Yeah, anything.
1:20:21Anyway, well, let's see.
1:20:23What we have to do is...
1:20:25I've got to have a hard game with him in terms of what comes out of him now and keep Henry at least so that he doesn't ever take his body.
1:20:34When he breaks, we're going to take him ourselves.
1:20:38And that's all there is to it.
1:20:39There it is that you've got to be the only foreign policy spokesperson.
1:20:43Sure.
1:20:44And that probably you should start doing some foreign policy content.
1:20:47Once in a while.
1:20:48Can't be anything like that.
1:20:53No president was ever quoted directly on the note.
1:20:56I can go on with my policy more.
1:21:01I can just go on next month.
1:21:03I don't have to be on the prime time TV.
1:21:07You can go on your radio and do some of that.
1:21:09Yeah, I agree.
1:21:09But the Q&A is enormously impressive.
1:21:11It's much more interesting.
1:21:14Yeah.
1:21:15But it's... Like, for example, you would do the editor's kind of thing.
1:21:22in the middle of the day or something like that, and if you want to report a policy and it's letterable, letter written, you get across an awful lot of things.
1:21:31Well, for example, I can say I've been there in the last press conference, and I had already said in the April 7th speech, I noticed a lot of tutorials, a lot particularly in Chicago Sun, Chicago Daily News, who said to the president, clarify, I'd say, I'd say, well, I made the same points about prisoners, the same points about military reports, the same points about federal withdrawal, the same points, all April 7th.
1:21:52It just proves that, you know, as far as you've got to keep saying it over and over, you've got to keep saying it over and over.
1:21:56It's the only way, even to an editorial.
1:21:58Our people over here have no understanding of that.
1:22:00They're totally incompetent in that respect.
1:22:01They don't realize you've got to keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it and repeating it.
1:22:14I think we've got to get all of our people away from planning two years.
1:22:19Who the hell cares?
1:22:20Why do we want to do that?
1:22:21Well, what I suggested to Cole was that he made the point that most of the people would accept that.
1:22:25And Harper, who is not, doesn't understand this at all, he wouldn't understand it.
1:22:31What I said is, why don't you set Ed Parker up over there with a couple people, let him plan too, and forget about it.
1:22:39Then you'll feel good about it if you've got somebody doing your long range planning all the time, developing some new programs, figuring it out.
1:22:47But just forget about it.
1:22:48We're pressing Bill Keele or Erland or anybody who'll matter to waste any time.
1:22:50And then get your good guys, Morgan and Grove and
1:22:55and the rest of the people had to sit down and thinking about, only about PR.
1:23:02What I mean by PR, not in the sense of a slew of bad culture, but PR in terms of how are we going to get across the points, how are we going to identify the president with these things, and so forth and so on.
1:23:13Now, I must say that going out to this gateway piece isn't a bad idea, but it's got to be, I mean, I went out there and flew over San Clemente.
1:23:22I would have followed with names on them.
1:23:24I don't think that's what I would have done.
1:23:26Maybe we still came out with a name of the beach or something.
1:23:29No, I think you're going to name the beach.
1:23:32How did they do that?
1:23:34There's a word you can think of, you know, the World Rogers Beach and the Virginia Beach.
1:23:39I mean, that beach shouldn't be named the region next to the beach.
1:23:42It never should be, because next to the home, I got the god damn name done.
1:23:47And I said, damn good.
1:23:48It's the most spectacular beach that's in the world right now.
1:23:52He said, damn good.
1:23:54I think also this Gateway East thing is good for that reason.
1:23:59It points out the park.
1:24:00But I made the point to go.
1:24:02I said, and he bought it completely.
1:24:03I said, what the hell good?
1:24:04Sure, that's a good idea to go out and open Gateway East, but who the hell gives a shit about Gateway East?
1:24:08Who knows what you're talking about?
1:24:11Why don't we call it Nixon Park, or not Nixon Park, or Church of Nixon Park, or David Eisenhower Park?
1:24:20And you should, but we ought to be thinking about it.
1:24:22Maybe we could call it Freedom Party or something, and then say, Freedom Park presented to the people under the Nixon administration.
1:24:28But, hell, every mayor in this country
1:24:31And every hokey little city puts his name all over the goddamn city.
1:24:35Every building always has a Sam Johnson name.
1:24:39The administration of Sam, Joel Jones, and so forth.
1:24:43Any public building in this country, any airport, any latrine, or anything else, there's always a big marble thing on the wall that has the mayor's name on it.
1:24:53And all the city council members, I say, will do their job and give them money.
1:24:59Oh, Huey Long, we laughed at it, but God damn it, nobody ever forgot who was around there.
1:25:03And everything in the whole city is named Huey Long Memorial Grounds.
1:25:10All of those, we've got to work towards that kind of thing.
1:25:18I don't know what the policy is.
1:25:20I don't know what the policy is.
1:25:27I'm going to announce the trip up there on Monday now.
1:25:31Well, is it worked out?
1:25:34Well, we've got all kinds of flack about it.
1:25:36We have to take the Senate and House interior committees and all that stuff.
1:25:40So I don't know how to...
1:25:41I jumped on it this morning because I can't see if they come back and want to change the thing.
1:25:49Yeah.
1:25:53And then they want to put, they say we've got to put all the mayors, all the people in the president's helicopter.
1:25:59If we do that, there's no way to put the press in.
1:26:00Well, that's what I said.
1:26:01That's what you used to go with.
1:26:03We don't have cameras in the president's helicopter.
1:26:06He might as well not go.
1:26:07I'm putting in all the mayors.
1:26:09The two mayors.
1:26:11They want to put the two mayors and the two governors and the secretary of the interior and you and the press all in one helicopter.
1:26:17We can't do it.
1:26:18We can work out a way.
1:26:20We can change.
1:26:21What we can do is shift it.
1:26:25Mayor's in for part of the government.
1:26:27Governor's in for the other part or something like that.
1:26:30But we can't do it if we have to take the interior committees and the four senators in there.
1:26:35And more senators are not going, period.
1:26:38That's an issue.
1:26:39So that's an issue.
1:26:41Now, the Interior Committee, they're not going.
1:26:43They're going to keep the senators out if you take the Senate Interior Committee.
1:26:46I won't take the Senate Interior Committee.
1:26:48My point is, if you were Jack Javits, would you sit here while the Senate Interior Committee went up there?
1:26:54No, I'm not taking any of those.
1:26:57And there isn't room.
1:26:58You can't do it even if we wanted to.
1:27:02And we don't want to.
1:27:03So anyway, I don't see why you can't have the two governors and the mayors and Martin, you have to have him.
1:27:10You know, he's up there all the time.
1:27:12Well, we're working at that part.
1:27:13We can work out.
1:27:14And I'm worried about that.
1:27:15I had two helicopters.
1:27:17I had Martin on one.
1:27:18That's what we're going to do.
1:27:19I'll be on the other with another.
1:27:20That was exactly the plan.
1:27:21Now that we're worried that, you know, because Mary Gibson's fine, that she can't put him on the second helicopter.
1:27:27Well, God damn it, she can't do that.
1:27:29Putting him on for part of the way, that's exactly the plan.
1:27:33Plus, why did he?
1:27:34Well, who's she talking about?
1:27:36Who's she talking about?
1:27:38Who's in charge?
1:27:39Bud Waker.
1:27:40What if you're taking the earth and we're all trying to untangle us?
1:27:44I don't want to take the earth.
1:27:45Well, he was in there.
1:27:46Well, the main point is, if we have to take the interior, then I'm not going.
1:27:50That's the way I'm going.
1:27:50That's all.
1:27:51Because I can't go there without taking the senators.
1:27:54I will not take those senators up there.
1:27:56Three out of the four of them.
1:27:58I'm not going to have Brian Brown be there.
1:28:02Well, there's no point in giving the Senators credit for this.
1:28:05It looks like you've got to hand it to the Congressional.
1:28:08Well, they're arguing that we've got to take the committee in order to get it through.
1:28:13We don't really care that much about getting it through.
1:28:16No, it's up to the committee to care about it.
1:28:18It's up to the committee.
1:28:18The committee wants it, not to put it through.
1:28:20That's just too goddamn bad.
1:28:22We'll go on fighting for parks for the people.
1:28:23The Congress won't give them.
1:28:27Well, let's see what you can find out.
1:28:29If you can, why don't you ask?
1:28:31Ask later.
1:28:32And just, if, but it's Iran's culture, just forget it.
1:28:36If he says the Interior Committees have to go, any of them, just not going.
1:28:39Overreact to it, sir.
1:28:40Overreact to it.
1:28:42Overreact to something true or something like that, sir.
1:28:49But you've got to have some kind of a meeting sometime, though, about
1:28:57I don't care what gets through.
1:29:06Just get something from the collier and say you're right.
1:29:28I'm inclined to agree with him.
1:29:30What I mean is I'm inclined to agree with him.
1:29:34I'm inclined to accept that we really got to pump hard because if we do, because Bill is a clever son of a bitch and actually he wants to take it.
1:29:41All this is an incredibly good song.
1:29:46It would be great if we could keep running around and talking about it.
1:29:58There's number one in the SST.
1:30:12It's really tough.
1:30:13I don't know how the heat comes on it.
1:30:16Thank God, but you thought of the idea of my really good Johnson's thing from Florida.
1:30:20I hope nobody's bitching about that.
1:30:21Somebody want to fly to Florida, ride with me over there.
1:30:23Nobody will until I can tell you.
1:30:24That's going to be a nice, easy fight for me.
1:30:25I'm going to hold her.
1:30:27I'm going to shake hands with her, help her against the bottom of the ramp, let her take the turn of the plane.
1:30:34That's an excellent idea.
1:30:35Hard to ride in a helicopter.
1:30:36That's fine.
1:30:38On the way back, after the, back to the money, sure, sure.
1:30:43Anything like that, it's not a little therapy.
1:30:46If you fly in alone, fly back alone, that's that.
1:30:51And we're doing, you know, we're going to stay on the people.
1:30:54We're bringing down presidential money from Washington.
1:30:56That's, sure, we're going to bring back people in that.
1:31:02Yeah.
1:31:04He said he was going to take a better use of my time going to the library and educating me.
1:31:11He would?
1:31:12Yeah.
1:31:12He didn't mean it.
1:31:15He picked it up.
1:31:23My job.
1:31:24If you've got a minute, you can talk about the strategy of the rest of the show.
1:31:30All right, yes, yes, come on.
1:31:32No candidates, no candidates, no senators.
1:31:43Fine.
1:31:43I'd be curious to hear if Lindsey accepted.
1:31:49Well, Lindsey, I don't want to throw out an invitation and then have him bluntly say for some damn reason.
1:31:56You understand what I mean?
1:31:58I do not indicate who's guilty.
1:32:00Just say that I'm guilty.
1:32:03If you don't understand what I'm talking about, surely if you are thinking that we're inviting Mayor Lindsay and we're inviting Governor Rockwell or we're inviting, you know, Governor Rockwell and Mayor Hernandez, nice.
1:32:14Lindsay is just a kind of a bastion.
1:32:16It's like they say, I refuse to go.
1:32:20Don't put yourself in that position.
1:32:23Don't put yourself in the position of who the hell is going.
1:32:28You said we're going up there.
1:32:32Who's going?
1:32:33Well, we'll let you know.
1:32:34We're checking out now to see.
1:32:37President and Secretary Morton.
1:32:38President and Secretary Morton will be going up.
1:32:41So they'll go to the new staff.
1:32:43Don't get Lindsey's acceptance or rejection.
1:32:47Don't put it out.
1:32:48I think
1:32:56You've got the governors, and uh, and uh, you see, I don't, I don't get, I don't get no way to deliver Lindsey's buzzsaw.
1:33:04Go ahead.
1:33:05It's fine.
1:33:09He's a son of a bitch, Bob.
1:33:11Just like they say, well, because they're a crew, the police were repressive or something.
1:33:15You know, he's, I mean, now he's not gonna go.
1:33:18Screw him.
1:33:19He can go around, but he's not gonna, I think he'll go.
1:33:22They've been working with, he's been very much involved in this thing.
1:33:27He isn't going to want to not be there.
1:33:29I'll break it, I've got a bad rap in the image.
1:33:32And that tax, I sure did.
1:33:33And that showed you, at the state level, showed you what our boys are, got to start remembering.
1:33:40At the state level, a little son of a bitch, down in the woodwork, found that out, put it out to somebody in the press.
1:33:46At the state, you know, this is not us that did this with Hancock.
1:33:49The ironic thing is that it was a student, student reporter, student reporter on a campus radio station that put it out.
1:33:57I'm inclined to think if I were Reagan, I would go, well, he's not running anything, but I guess I had losses in the range.
1:34:17It obviously did.
1:34:17We were just talking about the fact that the experience that Reagan has had on his income tax shows
1:34:27I heard about some of the problems that we've had on a conscious basis in the last few years.
1:34:33Of course, I'm a veteran.
1:34:35The state income tax law has slipped to a student reporter.
1:34:39In fact, it is being taxed.
1:34:42Well, of course, it's a great example.
1:34:44I mean, I've heard all...
1:34:46Thank goodness this is a state office.
1:34:48Thank God it wasn't us, but thank God all the Reagan people that got into that one.
1:34:51If anyone was any better or was there, we might write a column on there next.
1:34:55Did we finally get our man in that, or is...
1:34:59Apparently, it's coming.
1:35:03We're getting a lot of vibrations out of Treasury right now.
1:35:07They want Nolan?
1:35:08No, well, yeah, the bureaucracy wanted Nolan, and they're leaking all kinds of stories.
1:35:12What happened to the White House?
1:35:14I saw that.
1:35:15McConaughey was appealing.
1:35:18No, he knows that we have to have that.
1:35:21He's all right.
1:35:24He's fine.
1:35:26All right.
1:35:26Here's the thing, John, I feel it just requires your...
1:35:33I don't think you can talk as candidly as you go about it.
1:35:40Schultz has been talking about his meetings with Mills.
1:35:42Right.
1:35:43I get it.
1:35:44You're somewhat distrustful of that.
1:35:46I am too.
1:35:47I mean, mainly because I think that Schultz feels that Mills is an honorable man, whereas we know Mills is a son of a bitch.
1:35:54I mean, he's a raider never.
1:35:56There are all kinds of signs around this.
1:36:00There's even a wire story that Mills is getting ready to move out on his own.
1:36:05He's been bigger than that.
1:36:07Move out on his own, I'm very much sure.
1:36:09Yeah.
1:36:11So, and he's to make a speech Monday to the Tennessee legislature.
1:36:18And it is anticipated that he will unveil his plan at that time, whether or not we do.
1:36:26I think we would.
1:36:27That's why it is, John.
1:36:28That's why it is, John.
1:36:30You know, Connolly, Schultz is talking to him.
1:36:32Connolly is a friend with I. I've studied it.
1:36:35It says, well, it's a big apple open, right?
1:36:38On the other hand, has anybody discussed it with Ford?
1:36:41Your board is out there babbling like a son of a bitch with all these congressmen and so forth, and people feel very unhappy.
1:36:48That's our problem.
1:36:49That's our problem.
1:36:49We've got guys that are counting on us all over this country.
1:36:54Not just in the country.
1:36:55Now, what is basically the mill's plan?
1:37:00Well, as near as we can tell, it's going to be some kind of a modified revenue sharing.
1:37:08But only the cities, not the states.
1:37:11and it will probably be in essence a block grant, kind of a block grant approach.
1:37:20I don't think he is.
1:37:27I think we're set up for a big double-cross here, in my opinion.
1:37:32Well, we have, and what I've done to slow George down on this a little bit is I've gotten him working with Ed Morgan about the whole problem with clearance.
1:37:47He had the feeling that all he had to do was have a handshake with Wilbur and then the dawn was going to come.
1:37:53We've explained to him the various people that we would have to talk to.
1:37:56And we said, George, what are we going to say to Nelson Rock and tell her about this?
1:38:00What are we going to say to Ronald Reagan about this?
1:38:02What are we going to say to Eric Cheney?
1:38:03All these guys up and down the line.
1:38:05And obviously, they shouldn't read this in the paper.
1:38:08They should hear it from us.
1:38:09And then he said, yes, I see that.
1:38:11Well, maybe we ought to get together and figure this out.
1:38:13So Monday, what I've done
1:38:16is to set a meeting with you and Connolly and Schultz and McGregor and May.
1:38:22Connolly, okay.
1:38:23And... Well, can you talk to him?
1:38:27Can somebody talk to Connolly a little in advance?
1:38:29All right.
1:38:29What I mean is, he's coming in this, maybe, John, quickly, out of the blue.
1:38:35All right.
1:38:35He will want to settle.
1:38:37I mean, he wants a progress.
1:38:39But Connolly is aware.
1:38:41He's aware of Mills' motives.
1:38:45But Schultz is not.
1:38:46Schultz is like a baby in the woods with Pimps, it seems to me.
1:38:50Well, I will say this.
1:38:52If George could pull this off with Pimps, and we could come out where George thinks we would come out, I'd be 100%.
1:39:00Well, as I understand it.
1:39:05one approach we might take is
1:39:34That's Lindsey's street name.
1:39:37I'm not sure if Katie and I talked about it before.
1:39:43Well, it gets us out of the country, so I'm going to say he's been invited in.
1:39:50The mayor gets us invited also, right?
1:39:52Go ahead.
1:39:55The only way I know to really smoke this out, and then this is what I'm going to propose Monday to this group.
1:40:01Let me tell you what I've done and the way to smoke it out, if I may suggest.
1:40:04The way to smoke it out is to have George Shultz with Connelly.
1:40:10My God, that Connelly will see.
1:40:14I mean, Millicent's not a bullshit man.
1:40:16He will bullshit Shultz.
1:40:19I was going to go one step beyond that and bring it down here.
1:40:24Oh, Christ.
1:40:26I don't mind going, but he's such a tricky bastard.
1:40:28Well, but he is so tricky that even with Schultz and Connolly, I don't think you could count on him.
1:40:35I think he has such a strong sense of the presidency, though, that he would not pull something on you.
1:40:42All right.
1:40:43What about Burns?
1:40:44Where's he going to be?
1:40:45Burns?
1:40:46George says he's a bore.
1:40:48Now, I haven't talked to Johnny.
1:40:51I would assume he's a bore.
1:40:54Because George said so.
1:40:56But there again, he's just tough as hell to get aboard on anything.
1:41:00You know, he's just been, he's negative as can be.
1:41:06So I must say, John, a guy that is worth a damn and that we've really got to stand by is Jerry Porter.
1:41:12Jerry Porter, you know, he's all those absolute senators, none of them are speaking up.
1:41:17Jerry Ford said, oh, you've got to put through this revenue sharing.
1:41:20We've got these fellows.
1:41:22He's got some more, Congressman.
1:41:23You know, he's really talking strong.
1:41:25Well, Ford will be here in this meeting.
1:41:27You asked to have him, too, so we invited him to come.
1:41:31And when is this?
1:41:32This Monday at 5 o'clock.
1:41:35Well, I'll be back.
1:41:36Oh, yeah, brother.
1:41:38Well, I'll be in the meeting.
1:41:39Yes, sir.
1:41:39Well, this meeting, I can listen.
1:41:40You asked to.
1:41:41to have a meeting with these people the other day, so I've set it up.
1:41:45No, not having anybody from the committee.
1:41:48Jerry's the only one from the Congress.
1:41:51It's as soon as, yes, it's as soon as I have breakfast.
1:41:55That's fine.
1:41:55If we can do it, if you can do it, that would be fine, but then you're...
1:42:00I know this is terribly important, John, to get this strategy ready.
1:42:07I think 5 o'clock's all the way...
1:42:09You understand, I don't do many speeches in New York, do we?
1:42:12No, sir.
1:42:14No?
1:42:14No.
1:42:14Oh, well, you know, I, you know, maybe I was informal.
1:42:17Oh, we've got something like that.
1:42:19Thank God we have no senators or congressmen so I can reach out.
1:42:23What is the deal again?
1:42:25It's scheduled now for 9.30.
1:42:26Why not 8 o'clock breakfast?
1:42:28It's fine.
1:42:30You can do it.
1:42:31I can do it.
1:42:33Oh, I think it's very important.
1:42:37I think an 8 o'clock breakfast would be good.
1:42:40John, that gets everybody in the room.
1:42:42That'd be great.
1:42:46Well, I have some lines out to try and find out exactly what Mel's going to say.
1:42:52And we'll have to do both, Bob.
1:42:56We can't delay our strategy.
1:43:00You're going to have Schultz, Conley, Ford,
1:43:08McGregor and me.
1:43:09Yeah, one of them.
1:43:12Let's put somebody else in one of them.
1:43:16That's enough.
1:43:18Let's see.
1:43:20If you want breakfast, that's fine.
1:43:23If there's no problem, I'll walk right out of the breakfast and leave at 9.30.
1:43:28Unless I sound huge, that'd be fine.
1:43:30I would help because we're going to need Monday to get the ducks in a row, get this all set up.
1:43:36As I will just start right out, I'll be there.
1:43:39We'll sit down and I'll start right off.
1:43:41It might be...
1:43:42that if everybody thinks well of the idea of your tying those down, that we could use the 5 o'clock slot for that.
1:43:50I agree.
1:43:51But let's just hold that over.
1:43:54Well, what I'm thinking is to preempt that or to frustrate it or to do something.
1:44:01And we can talk about that Monday morning and I'll try and have as much information as I can.
1:44:05Mr. Nelson now, as Mitchell said, Nelson's like all the other Nelsons for a very good reason.
1:44:11He's a man, he's arms vanity, who thinks that he can be a presidential candidate.
1:44:20So he's rushing around and trying to pick up some of the delegates.
1:44:26He's also under very great pressure from the Democratic Party to come up with an alternative.
1:44:31Since he's not the leader of the House.
1:44:32Yep.
1:44:32Because Albert is one of the pieces.
1:44:34Probably is.
1:44:35He probably is the strongest man.
1:44:40He may not exert leadership, but he'll clearly be the leader of the House.
1:44:43He'll be a speaker.
1:44:43He'll be a speaker.
1:44:44He'll be talking to somebody a little bit.
1:44:48I'm trying to track down some police records on Albert, who has apparently been drunk in public here a couple times recently.
1:44:57Has he, you know, has his wife accosted some people in the restaurant?
1:45:03I don't believe you have any problem.
1:45:07Jerry doesn't believe that Albert drinks.
1:45:09He better do.
1:45:10He was playing that so square the other day.
1:45:13Does he drink?
1:45:14That's all our reports are.
1:45:15He's very strong.
1:45:20And that was the Vice President saying it, you know, when he couldn't get anyone to spurn anything.
1:45:24See, he was out.
1:45:24Yeah, yeah.
1:45:26Well, Albert is probably just can't take the pressure of leadership, which, you know, he can't because he's been in line.
1:45:34And that's time.
1:45:37That's what Les was saying.
1:45:38He hasn't made a decision yet as Speaker.
1:45:42He made one on the Capitol Police arresting the demonstrators and trying to have it both ways.
1:45:49Attorney General, I was going to say that we are really going outposting the SSC thing again.
1:46:08So I understand.
1:46:10It's a long question.
1:46:12It's not all that long a shot.
1:46:14It's crept into the rumors.
1:46:16Is there no secret about it?
1:46:17Of course not.
1:46:19How could a terrorist be named this big secret?
1:46:21Well, how could they?
1:46:22He told me that that's me.
1:46:24And I told me to put the heat on him.
1:46:26He said he'd keep me in the locker to work on him.
1:46:29That's what I'm trying to say.
1:46:36Yeah.
1:46:36I wondered about the microcopy machine.
1:46:38If, uh, you know, this, uh, this SST thing coming up, do you think you could, uh, you could talk daily about, uh, you know, memories?
1:46:47You said you'd get a couple of those guys.
1:46:49Would that be out of the way?
1:46:50Or, I mean, maybe there's just too much going on there.
1:46:52I know you didn't want to say anything in the meeting, but, uh, yeah, if you could give me your obligations, then I could do some other things that we have to do.
1:47:04Yeah.
1:47:11Well, anyway, there's a way to get a couple of Chicago people to break over on that.
1:47:22He's coming to see me this Friday, this week.
1:47:34Yeah, except that he is not going to come in until...
1:47:46But he knows he's coming.
1:47:50Well, I think it's fine.
1:47:51He has, if he has a, if he has a, he's willing to go out and just ask him to go talk to him.
1:47:56They won't go to him.
1:47:57We just, we just feel this is important to the country.
1:48:00Oh, that's good.
1:48:05Talk to all the people in the Chicago police and they'll be quoting the other way.
1:48:08We just want to see you out of the impact of those people.
1:48:12Okay.
1:48:12Okay.
1:48:20I think the plan is fine.
1:48:22I'll hold 8 o'clock and hang right up there.
1:48:25The other thing is that on the SST thing, Jerry, I told him if he wanted it, he thought it would be helpful, and I think some of the Republicans voted against it.
1:48:39So, I don't know whether it would do any good, but Jerry will not ask for meeting, I'm sure, unless he feels it would do some good.
1:48:48And his wife, his name, if all I could talk, I didn't know he voted against it.
1:48:53I said, well, Christ, he could get away.
1:48:55And he fell on Smith, that tower in Chile.
1:48:56For Christ's sakes, they seem to think it would come the other way.
1:48:59It comes, I think, on the basis of Lockheed.
1:49:01This is Lockheed, and also, we've got Smith on that side of that.
1:49:05That's the SAA guy that we pulled the fire from.
1:49:09We did fire him and reinstated him.
1:49:13Smith owes him.
1:49:14That's why we put the guy down.
1:49:15Why does he want him?
1:49:18Because the guy got something on Smith's property.
1:49:21It's his one presidential appointee in the whole administration.
1:49:26He can have him.
1:49:27Why did he give us such a turkey?
1:49:29As you say, John, let me tell you something.
1:49:32You've got to, and the reason I mention Jerry is you've got to, don't you, admire him for trying on this STM?
1:49:48You know what has happened is, as he went, as he liaised and fights in the battles, he gets tougher and tougher.
1:49:54He sees the leadership action and he starts to move in.
1:49:58Now, the great advantage he's got is he starts with being a man of some integrity and honesty and principle and all, but he really gets head and shoulders out of all his colleagues.
1:50:06Well, that's the point.
1:50:10The pact he's running in is fairly mediocre.
1:50:13You look around that room of leaders and ask yourself, who's after him?
1:50:17And there's a pretty big gap.
1:50:19But we know, the thing I was thinking with Jerry, though, is that he's a hopeful.
1:50:26And that vote around, even in the House, it'll have a one hell of a effect.
1:50:30Don't you think?
1:50:31The probabilities are that with these rumors, right, that you're going to get your resistance pretty well organized.
1:50:38Oh, of course there'll be resistance.
1:50:41But how many votes do we have to change?
1:50:46Not very many.
1:50:47Five?
1:50:47See, you lose by ten, you change by five votes.
1:50:50And Jerry already had two or three in his pocket.
1:50:52He was ready to change.
1:50:53I said, we can't change by not getting the Republicans in there.
1:50:58And also, the other thing, I put it square to me.
1:51:00I said, no, we've got to have these votes.
1:51:02And I said, if we don't get this, we can't get Lockheed.
1:51:05And I also told her.
1:51:11What they've got to do is to put the devil whammy on this thing, don't you agree?
1:51:15That Magnuson and Jackson have got to tell the people in the House and the people in the Senate that they will not support Bakke unless they get support for SSG.
1:51:25Don't you think it would be as bold as that?
1:51:27Has Clark talked to them?
1:51:28I'm sure he did.
1:51:29Yeah, he really should, because they can wheel sometimes.
1:51:32Tell Clark, Clark knows this, that he's got the hell out there to see them.
1:51:37And with the message directed from the President on this indictment, that we need some House votes.
1:51:42We don't need to be accountable for three or four votes, but that it should be on the basis of what's here, boys, and we get Lockheed unless we get SSG.
1:51:53The dramatic damn thing about it, you know, it means far more than getting it in the first instance if we should turn this around.
1:51:59Now, of course, once we get to the House, you say, well, if you've got the Senate, the answer is maybe not.
1:52:05But you've got to have, maybe several other senators.
1:52:07But even on that note, they have to have a conference sometime.
1:52:11Now, what the hell do they do in that conference?
1:52:14The House can't give everything away, right?
1:52:17I just think it's great to have them embroiled in a fight about that while we're in shock.
1:52:20They're currently not going to go to the full, though, which may make it easier to... Reflation or cancellation?
1:52:28No, they're not.
1:52:30They're not going to the 283.
1:52:31They're not going to the 283.
1:52:32Oh, I see.
1:52:32They figured out that 170 or something like that is enough to keep it alive.
1:52:35Keep it alive.
1:52:35Yeah.
1:52:36And they're going for that now.
1:52:42I'm sure they'll pick it up in the transportation preservation.
1:52:48Actually, then that pegs it lower.
1:52:50See, that pegs the number lower than the cancellation cost.
1:52:53That's exactly what they're after.
1:52:55Just what we were talking about, Jerry.
1:52:56Because the cancellation cost goes to tax loss.
1:53:00Well, no, the cancellation costs alone are $80,000 plus $53,000.
1:53:04Yeah, it's very substantial on direct cancellation costs.
1:53:09Plus, really, see, Bo is arguing that they should repay the airlines the $85,000 that they got.
1:53:15And that gets spoiled up.
1:53:22Well, except that they have a liquidity problem, and they could really use his bill.
1:53:28And Bo argues that this is a good way of subsidizing the airlines.
1:53:32And so he's in there with an amendment to repay them.
1:53:36Well, I have a feeling that some may feel that it wasn't the right vote.
1:53:45What do you think?
1:53:47I think some already feel that.
1:53:49Yes.
1:53:50And Pop is a typical example.
1:53:54He feels very badly about this.
1:53:56And I think he is right to switch.
1:53:58Well, in the Senate, you only have to switch three votes.
1:54:01And you've got Gambrel, Cranston, and Toney.
1:54:06who ought to be out-of-manage here on the basis of logging.
1:54:09Wasn't that an extraordinary statement by Tunney on the demonstration?
1:54:13Yeah, that is just really strange.
1:54:16I saw it, but it wasn't to the extent that I just saw the findings.
1:54:20He made a speech.
1:54:22He made a speech.
1:54:23In California?
1:54:25No, in the Midwest someplace.
1:54:27And he very hard, very hard-line.
1:54:30He said that the liberal anti-war senators were now the captives of the crazies.
1:54:42Oh, I saw the word, crazies.
1:54:44You mean all the liberal anti-war senators?
1:54:47Yeah.
1:54:47Well, he's one of them.
1:54:49Yeah.
1:54:49He said that they had, in effect, been tied hand and foot by these last three days of demonstration.
1:54:56He said that, something to the effect that tipping over old ladies' cars was not the way to persuade the President.
1:55:06That the only way to persuade the President was with a majority of the Senate.
1:55:10And he said, we can't get a majority of the Senate with people like this out in the streets running around.
1:55:16And it's very, he obviously had a stutter
1:55:22yes well he's a mirror image of kennedy on this yeah 180 degrees
1:55:29Well, the press doesn't know what to do.
1:55:52You don't think so?
1:55:53I don't think so.
1:55:54I, you know, I backgrounded day before yesterday all over the place here, and I had quite a large amount of the demonstrations and the presence.
1:56:04That was just the light entertainment in the middle of the day.
1:56:10Well, I think we probably had a negative effect.
1:56:17He knows that we don't know.
1:56:20Sorry, let him know.
1:56:24But should we listen?
1:56:27That son of a bitch, the way he's been mistreated by everybody, all by Johnson and the rest.
1:56:33You're mild.
1:56:35And he mentioned that he'd been...
1:56:37in sessions like this before they write it around well the point is he's not going to get from now on i do not want to have ziggler or again or me or anybody else paid the compliment of ever having a session with him i think sometimes you you make a big mistake this was all right you know how this came i know the salon yeah i had to do it but if you're making them i don't want ziggler to
1:57:00I just don't think it does much good.
1:57:02I just think the cool treatment is better.
1:57:07I don't know if you agree, John, or not.
1:57:10Well, I think I made a little progress with this guy Rock the other day.
1:57:16Now, the proof of the footing, though, will have to be in what he writes.
1:57:20It's very hard to tell, but it just seems to be good tactics occasionally.
1:57:25You've got the ammunition.
1:57:26Yeah.
1:57:27To confront these guys and say... Well, to make them think they're being adopted is simply that we've kicked it down.
1:57:35Nosey.
1:57:37He said, the son of a bitch is going to be on the air every night.
1:57:39There's nothing we can do about that.
1:57:41He's going to talk to 10 or 12 million people, so you better talk to him.
1:57:44And I just think if I tell him not to keep trying to get him to say something, we want to say it.
1:57:48Well, I'm sort of helping him.
1:57:50I'll come back.
1:57:51I'm on the spot with him because, see, one of the ways I got at him through Salak was to say, Rath is lazy.
1:57:57He never comes around to see me.
1:57:58He never has to see me in two years, which is true.
1:58:02And so Rapper came steaming up and said, gosh, you know, I didn't know I was supposed to see you, and this and that.
1:58:10And now, if he asks to see me, I've pretty much got to see him to keep clean with saliva.
1:58:15But we shouldn't help Rapper.
1:58:19We should never help him.
1:58:22But we sure should try to use him.
1:58:25Because he's there.
1:58:26Well, and we should wedge these guys.
1:58:27You can't figure any of them.
1:58:29You've got to play one against the other.
1:58:30You can't figure any of them, which is a four-year game.
1:58:33At the present time, ABC's kind of on the kick that's sort of against or against the reason.
1:58:41They're kind of sort of, you know, the Browns and liberal elements.
1:58:47They'll come around.
1:58:48They're trying to balance.
1:58:49Well, they were a little burned, too.
1:58:51I think they got the feeling that they would have been...
1:58:55Well, I think there's another explanation for ABC.
1:59:02I think ABC is on the up, and I think NBC is on the down.
1:59:07And I think as ABC is on the up and they're gathering listeners, they're trying to broaden it.
1:59:13And they're appealing to that.
1:59:16They're making a bigger listening audience on the right than there is on the left.
1:59:20And that's what they may be missing.
1:59:23Could be.
1:59:23But I think they are making an aggressive effort to broaden their listenership.
1:59:27It's exactly like making an aggressive effort to broaden its readership.
1:59:32And it's almost collapsed.
1:59:34Back then, it was a wholesome middle American magazine.
1:59:36It's a reader's digest, which is a wholesome middle American story.
1:59:41It survived.
1:59:45I got a tip, Dave, for you yesterday, that lights suppress.
1:59:50a scandal article on the Virgin Islands, which touches Humphrey and the whole Democratic hierarchy.
1:59:59No, Paiwanski and a lot of bribery and a lot of hanky-kanky and a lot of Udall.
2:00:06And I've got the name of the reporter, and he's not with Life anymore.
2:00:09And I think we ought to try and get at him and find out what it is.
2:00:13You're really...
2:00:19Well, this guy seemed to think we could get him.
2:00:24Oh, all right.
2:00:28Well, Ron had the wires, and he had John Carroll, the Baltimore's phone, and then he had...
2:00:35Kaplow, and you had Gerald, and you had the guy from Metromedia, and three or four others in there.
2:00:42It was very interesting.
2:00:44They don't know what to think, really, about this demonstration thing.
2:00:47They really don't.
2:00:49No, no.
2:00:50Some of them very vigorously did not support it.
2:00:53But they're ambivalent.
2:00:57And Kaplow,
2:01:04is, I think, the epitome of the frustration of the press corps.
2:01:08He's sitting there saying, but why aren't you willing to just say that if somebody was wrongfully arrested that you'd regret it?
2:01:19You know?
2:01:21And...
2:01:24I said, well, that's a hypothetical, Herb.
2:01:27Why in the world should I permit an inference from a hypothetical?
2:01:40The line that I think Ron should be pushing background-wise is Severide's line, which is a superb argument.
2:02:11on the Virgin Islands, which touches Humphrey and the whole Democratic hierarchy.
2:02:19No, Paiwanski and a lot of bribery and a lot of hanky-panky and a lot of Udall.
2:02:26And I've got the name of the reporter, and he's not with Life anymore.
2:02:29And I think we ought to try and get at him and find out what it is.
2:02:32You're really...
2:02:38Well, this guy seemed to think we could get him.
2:02:43Oh, alright.
2:02:48Well, Ron had the wires and he had John Carroll, the Baltimore's son, and then he had Kaplow and he had Gerald and he had the guy from Metromedia and two or four others in there.
2:03:02It was very interesting.
2:03:03They don't know, they don't know what to think, really, about this demonstration thing.
2:03:07They really don't.
2:03:08They all supported it, didn't they?
2:03:09No, no.
2:03:10Some of them very vigorously did not support it.
2:03:12Really?
2:03:12Yeah.
2:03:13I didn't see one.
2:03:14They did it for the wrong reasons.
2:03:15They're all the hair-scarring person, aren't they?
2:03:18Yeah, but they're ambivalent.
2:03:21And Caplow is, I think, the epitome of the frustration of the press corps.
2:03:28He's sitting there saying, but...
2:03:32Why aren't you willing to just say that if somebody was wrongfully arrested that you'd regret?
2:03:39You know.
2:03:42And I said, well, that's a hypothetical, Herb.
2:03:47You know, why in the world should I permit an inference from a hypothetical?
2:03:51Well, they just wandered right out there and said, well, I'd also regret.
2:03:58The line that I think Ron should be pushing background-wise is Severide's line, which is a superb argument, which is these people that are hollering about the denial of justice are the very people who wanted to break the whole justice system by shutting this town down.
2:04:26The people who are crying about the lack of health facilities are the people who wanted to break down our whole health delivery system by blocking the hospitals and frustrating ambulances and shutting down the system.
2:04:38The people that are decrying... Why do you think Senator Wright did that?
2:04:42I think he just fed up.
2:04:44I think he fed up with it.
2:04:45Yep, I think he did.
2:04:49And he lives here.
2:04:50He was talking like
2:05:13You know, the thing that was very interesting, John, today, to me, talking to these people, I of course knew that the police had handled themselves well.
2:05:21The commander of the troops, the 9-3 star, the 2 star guy, and not the 9-3 star guy who was kind of a clown.
2:05:26I don't know why we had him, but I guess we had him.
2:05:29Oh, it's perfect politics.
2:05:31It's essential we had him.
2:05:32But anyway, the commander of the troops, the 2 star guy, is quite impressive.
2:05:35And he said, you know, he was, he said that, you know, he refused money and he stalled it.
2:05:41He brought in $10,000.
2:05:42He said it cost $2 million.
2:05:44Wow.
2:05:46The transport.
2:05:47Yeah.
2:05:47The transport.
2:05:48Yeah.
2:05:50And he said, what was really something these people have been wondering about how these people would act when they had to be put to the test.
2:05:59And he said they're missing what was heard.
2:06:11They were having to deal with people of their own kind, of their own age, and they just did the right thing.
2:06:21And he said, he said, our people didn't do it.
2:06:23And I said, you have a lot of blacks in your police force.
2:06:27And he said, how were they?
2:06:30And he said, just the same.
2:06:31Yeah, there was a columnist.
2:06:32And there was a columnist that made a very interesting point on that.
2:06:35He said that the people trying to tear down the system here were the sons and daughters of affluent, middle-class homes resisted by the sons
2:06:50in the majority black of poverty-level cultures.
2:06:57Isn't that a thing?
2:06:58Isn't that a thing?
2:06:59The juxtaposition in terms of who is defending the establishment is very interesting.
2:07:06Basically, half of those people were Jews.
2:07:19At least.
2:07:20At least.
2:07:21The blacks and the southern whites.
2:07:23Because that's the other half of it.
2:07:24The southern whites.
2:07:25The Jews and the northern liberals.
2:07:27There's a big chunk of it.
2:07:29Yeah.
2:07:29Yeah.
2:07:31Well.
2:07:31These guys that don't have a way to stay out of the service and didn't teach or didn't do all the other goddamn things that people did.
2:07:39well you background you think they really are they don't know what they want to do i think they are i think they are really frustrated by this whole turn of events and they and they really don't know which way to turn they're turned off as open order was in this column he ran yesterday by the fact that uh we wouldn't pander and uh i saw him and i
2:08:03just took the, you know, the standard line out of it.
2:08:07And...
2:08:07But we wouldn't pander about that, right?
2:08:09Well, we wouldn't say that we were sorry or that it was dreadful that there was a constitutional breakdown or that there was a lack of, you know, adherence to constitutional principles.
2:08:16Let me tell you why I did this thing yesterday or this morning.
2:08:18I'm totally sorry it didn't work yesterday.
2:08:20It didn't work today.
2:08:20But the reason that the penitentiary as well had so much interest in the government
2:08:30And we've done it.
2:08:32Because there must be no question of pandering.
2:08:34There must be no question of backing these people up.
2:08:36Now they're going to have all sorts of lawsuits.
2:08:39And there are people who are going to squeal about the rest.
2:08:42But let these bastards on the other side get out on the other side.
2:08:47The country does not want these things.
2:08:49Nobody was hurt, seriously.
2:08:52And you know, there's a right to protest.
2:08:54And you realize, do people also know, it's like religion.
2:08:58Freedom of religion means the right to have none.
2:09:00And freedom to protest means the right not to protest.
2:09:03Now, God damn it, there were a lot of people that didn't want to protest.
2:09:07They wanted to go to work.
2:09:08They had to be protected in that right just as much as the people had to be protected in the right to protest.
2:09:13We've been pushing that very, very hard.
2:09:15I think that across the country, a lot of cops and the rest, well, John, you know,
2:09:23But what it gets me, I know Zipper is very much opposed to doing this because he's taking so much heat from these baskets.
2:09:30I know, but I understand why he would.
2:09:32He's there, and then he's there, and then the Maya, the hurricane.
2:09:35But the point is, you don't even forget.
2:09:37Remember the time at the Chicago Convention, John?
2:09:41We all, I thought, Jesus Christ, let's all go in.
2:09:44Everybody thought we'd go in and kick David.
2:09:47When I walked right through that parade, I couldn't say a word against Dad.
2:09:52They were for him.
2:09:54And the people that had come over, that was a vicious thing.
2:09:57His police were too chucked out.
2:09:59They knocked those bloody bastards around.
2:10:01Of course, those kids were bad, too.
2:10:03Well, they were led by the same people these kids were.
2:10:07They'd sit down at your office and say, you know, they threw you down the window.
2:10:10Well, that was going on here.
2:10:11Yes, sir.
2:10:14A lot of that didn't get out.
2:10:16Well, I tried to load some of that into these stories, and I guess some of it got in.
2:10:22I know some of them in the news summary.
2:10:29Of course, I know that one of the worst ones is the way they took pain.
2:10:35The DAR call.
2:10:36Yeah, it's horrible.
2:10:37It's what you see in Mexico, called lesbians.
2:10:41One of the worst.
2:10:44Well, I think the columnists are going to write it their way.
2:10:49They're going to slant it against us.
2:10:50They're going to say the White House is terribly unsympathetic to the plight of these innocent people who've been arrested.
2:10:56And that's going to pay off in the long haul because the guy out in the country is going to read that and say, good, they shouldn't let those bastards out.
2:11:04We're going to net out.
2:11:07in the long haul.
2:11:07There's not going to be any.
2:11:08I don't give a damn what the country thinks of it.
2:11:11There's not going to be any cars.
2:11:13We know what they were up to.
2:11:15These people were not peaceful.
2:11:16They didn't intend to be.
2:11:18Those people that said, oh, we were just running around looking for the cherry blossoms.
2:11:21Hell, the cherry blossoms have been gone for eight weeks.
2:11:24They were looking for cherry blossoms.
2:11:25They were looking for trouble.
2:11:26And the guilty man is at home now.
2:11:29There's nobody in there.
2:11:29Yeah, that's right.
2:11:31Your story about the lady behind you, that's a good one.
2:11:42We'll take a lot of local heat on this, from the local press and from basically the ether access press.
2:11:50I don't get one man.
2:11:54I'm not so sure you're going to take as much heat as you think from that.
2:11:57Well, the Congress stepped up to this.
2:11:59The House stepped up to this beautifully.
2:12:01They just gave bones and halves of cattle up there.
2:12:05On the floor, on the saps.
2:12:07Even the Greens stepped up and made ice cold.
2:12:09Oh, did you?
2:12:11They really rallied around, and I suspect Jerry and some of them, you know, stimulated them.
2:12:20Well, even Carl Hubbard was arrested.
2:12:24Yeah, he was arrested.
2:12:26Well, he didn't have any choice.
2:12:28He was a naked man standing there.
2:12:32in the Senate.
2:12:32What the hell did the Senate do?
2:12:35I don't think they did anything on the floor.
2:12:36They did speeches out and around.
2:12:39Let me think.
2:12:43I don't think so.
2:12:44They haven't been meeting, you know.
2:12:45They've just been meeting to adjourn.
2:12:47They haven't had any business.
2:12:48That's the reason.
2:13:05That troops business, did he say how many they actually used?
2:13:09I have the impression they used 6,000 of the 10 that they had.
2:13:15Oh, I know.
2:13:16At the high point, I think we had 6,000 committed to positions around here.
2:13:21But here's your poll on the demonstrations.
2:13:25Have you seen or heard about the demonstrations against the one in Washington this week?
2:13:34We asked this on Thursday of the Veterans Week, the week the veterans were demonstrating on the way to St. Louis.
2:13:52There's an automatic system here.
2:14:11No, I'm looking forward to having a little lunch.
2:14:21What's your evaluation of agriculture coverage?
2:14:28Well, the coverage here was anything like that.
2:14:31That work, we weren't going for it.
2:14:33They are about the department.
2:14:36Okay.
2:14:39Awareness, that week was 77, unalert 23.
2:14:43And this week, awareness 93, unalert 6.
2:14:46So there wasn't any question of awareness.
2:14:51Then approval.
2:14:58In general, do you approve or disapprove of these demonstrations?
2:15:01During the Veterans Administration, it was 32 approved, 42 disapproved, 26 didn't know.
2:15:0632 what?
2:15:0832 approved, 42 disapproved, 26 don't know.
2:15:14And we asked the same question right after the press conference on May 1st, after the April 29th press conference.
2:15:25The day, the Saturday and Sunday of the demonstration, at that time, 30 approved, 64 disapproved.
2:15:33Disapproved went way up.
2:15:34The approved stayed about the same as the veterans, and at the end of the veterans' week, the... Well, also, I had a chance to get a question on you.
2:15:44Practically all of the don't-knows moved to disapprove.
2:15:48Plus... Oh, yeah.
2:15:49Oh, that's right.
2:15:50That's exactly what happened.
2:15:51All the don't-knows moved to disapprove.
2:15:52Mm-hmm.
2:15:54Yes, sir.
2:15:55Last night.
2:15:57Did you approve or disapprove?
2:15:59No, I didn't approve.
2:16:01And the night before it was 18 approved, 71 disapproved.
2:16:04Okay.
2:16:0411-0-0.
2:16:04Now give the veteran's figure again.
2:16:08That's the one that's in parallel.
2:16:10The veteran's figure was 32-42.
2:16:12This was 18-71.
2:16:13I got it turned and exchanged it.
2:16:17Okay.
2:16:17Then we said, do you approve or disapprove of the way the Washington police handled the demonstrators?
2:16:24Straight on, another public question.
2:16:25Approve 56, disapprove 18, no opinion 26.
2:16:27So they didn't know?
2:16:29Yeah.
2:16:30Approval is still 3-1.
2:16:32Well, that's fantastic.
2:16:34Do you feel the police were or were not justified in making mass arrests of the demonstrators who threatened to stop the government by blocking traffic into Washington, D.C.?
2:16:43Justified, 76.
2:16:44Not justified, 10.
2:16:46Holy smoke.
2:16:49Do you think the Washington police used too much force in handling the demonstrators, about the right amount, or were the police too easy on the demonstrators?
2:16:57Too much force, 11.
2:16:58About right, 40.
2:16:59Too easy, 23.
2:17:07Mass arrests justified, 76 to 10.
2:17:30No question on whether you've got any problems there.
2:17:34Of course, you didn't get any.
2:17:35Well, the media has got you.
2:17:37Bob, you didn't get any questions on it.
2:17:50Well, I don't think there's much room for... No, even far right, because even the media that are criticizing the harshest are linking you with it.
2:18:09So I think that's a plus.
2:18:1076 to 10, wow.
2:18:19Was 93% awareness.
2:18:201871.
2:18:201871.
2:18:20That's not right.
2:18:21No, I'm 32, 42 on the minimum, I think.
2:18:25We don't look at all.
2:18:28I don't think it's about any good thing.
2:18:47Our own congressmen are trying to keep it right in our hands.
2:18:50The reason is that we want to cover the sucker of these people.
2:18:52My wife said we have to scare them right across the line.
2:18:54This polling is not, it's just for our own knowledge.
2:18:56This is good knowledge.
2:18:58My wife thought that, but you ought to give it to Zegers so he doesn't feel it.
2:19:03Not to you, but just for his own drink.
2:19:08In fact, there's these left-wing press people, Bill.
2:19:13And I hope that Christ will do the job.
2:19:14We have an open-end question.
2:19:16Anything you'd like to comment on on these anti-war demonstrations?
2:19:20The answer will take a while to get to those.
2:19:21It will be interesting to see how those work.
2:19:29I said they'd be back later in the summer.
2:19:33Just saying that.
2:19:35And that's right.
2:19:36I think we should have a posture of business as usual.
2:19:43No extraordinary preparations and so forth.
2:19:55Yep.
2:19:56Nobody's been back to Chicago to demonstrate since the Democratic National Convention.
2:20:02They basically don't like to be trusted.
2:20:03There's no question about that.
2:20:07They say, no, sir, they do not, in spite of the brave front and the fellowship and the jail cell and all that stuff.
2:20:13They are essentially middle class, and they don't like to be arrested.
2:20:21And I think they don't like what the records do.
2:20:25They all know that down the road, sometimes they're going to have to put a word to it.
2:20:30Well, it's just a sort of a middle-class ethic.
2:20:35It's a stigma kind of a thing.
2:20:36You're arrested, you're put in a jail cell with a common criminal.
2:20:39They consider themselves idealists.
2:20:41And I really think that the arrest thing gets to them.
2:20:47That's why so many of them went home.
2:20:49I love it.
2:20:49Yeah.
2:20:56Well, it's a very interesting...
2:21:03Just keep it right in her house.
2:21:04The thing with us.
2:21:11The general had a hell of a fine editorial yesterday.
2:21:14That's something to do for you, isn't it?
2:21:22You said something.
2:21:23Yeah.
2:21:23Well, it's all right.
2:21:24It's fine.
2:21:25That's about all.
2:21:25Keeps a good copy of your line.
2:21:26Yeah, right.
2:21:29Good.
2:21:33Isn't that disturbing?
2:21:35Considering the hammering away that the media did.
2:21:37Of course, the media had just enough of the trashing and the abuse of civilians and that kind of thing.
2:21:44It offended people.
2:21:46Finally got through.
2:21:47Yeah.
2:21:48Finally got through.
2:21:51Do you think it had enough that it did offend people?
2:21:53Must have.
2:21:54Must have.
2:21:55The sight of these...
2:21:58And I think me and Nate both played our hand.
2:22:00You know that interview, that conversation between a hippie and a veteran of two wars?
2:22:09Did you happen to see that?
2:22:11Where they obviously had a camera behind each one of them.
2:22:15And the kid was saying, what's wrong with stopping traffic and so on?
2:22:23Isn't that better than dropping napalm on people in Vietnam?
2:22:28And this guy's saying, look, sonny, I fought the two World Wars so that you'd have the freedom to go to school and grow up in a free country and back and forth.
2:22:37And then these scraggly guys were saying, yeah, we fought in Vietnam, too.
2:22:41You know, giving him a hard time.
2:22:44And I think that kind of thing really turns people off.
2:22:47Here's a guy just walking down the street, and he's confronted by these guys.
2:22:52And the folks sitting at home, most of them are guys who fought in the World War themselves.
2:22:57And they're really offended by this kind of thing.
2:23:04Yeah, he was in the 8th Air Force.
2:23:10Yeah, he's made quite a bit of the fact that he had a reunion of his crew, of his bomber crew.
2:23:16And soldiers ain't the sort of thing, you know.
2:23:26Yeah, well, it's not going on.
2:23:28Well, one thing that he was pushing had to tie into this thing.
2:23:40the boldest of Democrats in the world.
2:23:42His courageous support of the Democrats, Kennedy's courageous support of the Democrats should be widely distributed.
2:23:54Widely distributed to every editor in the country.
2:23:56It should be distributed to every state chairman and so forth.
2:23:59It should be widely distributed.
2:24:01That's a damn good one.
2:24:04Thank you.
2:24:05I as well.
2:24:06I'll see you in a minute then.
2:24:07What's he saying?
2:24:09Now, he deplored, must be speaking, you know, he deplored it in sort of wishy-washy modern, so he made, yeah.
2:24:15Why don't you just, well, I guess, just get a little thing out of how old the Democrats, Humphrey, what he said.
2:24:25I'd say Humphrey, Muskie, Teddy, how they've all, lumped them all together, how they've all supported the demonstration, period.
2:24:32And the people who celebrate the two jobs, not now, do you think they do?
2:24:35No, not this month.
2:24:37It's all one, it's all murder, you know.
2:24:42The beauty of the other, of the bad one having to come after the veterans.
2:24:45And you could push, you could push McCloskey.
2:24:47Well, this is how we did that.
2:24:48Because, see, we didn't differentiate.
2:24:51We didn't say that the veterans in the service of the veterans did any demonstrations.
2:24:55Do you agree with these demonstrations?
2:24:59And then...
2:25:02A couple weeks ago, there was only a 10% spread between approval and disapproval.
2:25:06Now there's a 53% spread.
2:25:09That's quite a lot.
2:25:18Well, that's what we thought would happen, that they'd give you some sympathy with the veterans, which they did.
2:25:27Only 42 disapproving is pretty low.
2:25:31It's the closest to an approval we've ever had in an administration, and we thought that when we were looking at it, that he had a problem with it, even with the ratty-looking guys.
2:25:39I thought they were ratty-looking guys because they identified with the rest of the people as the time went on.
2:25:45It's funny what runs through their minds.
2:25:48I don't understand that.
2:25:50If Kerry and...
2:25:52300 of those guys had dressed themselves up.
2:25:55Kerry looked pretty good.
2:25:56He was... Oh yeah, but even he made concessions to the family.
2:26:00He wore his fatigues.
2:26:01Fatigues and all that sort of stuff.
2:26:03But if they had come in straight...
2:26:06Right.
2:26:07See, he couldn't wear his uniform.
2:26:09He wouldn't have to.
2:26:10But he needed, he needed some, he needed to get his medals out for us, for evidence.
2:26:15So he worked his fatigues in order to get his medals.
2:26:16Right.
2:26:17Anyway, any of these last, the next traders generally should just look like they should come in looking clean, wearing ties.
2:26:23God, if they got a bunch of those in wearing neckties and decent haircuts marching down the streets, they'd knock this country over.
2:26:30They sure would.
2:26:31They sure would.
2:26:33But there's a sort of a lowest common denominator phenomenon that works in these sites.
2:26:41No, but these guys,
2:26:59could cut their hair.
2:27:00Of course, that would violate everything that they stand for in terms of being, you know, symbolizing the departure from the system.
2:27:07Like this.
2:27:07939.
2:27:07They went for a thousand years.
2:27:09That's enough.
2:27:11That's all we got.
2:27:15And they didn't bother with any more figures.
2:27:20It was all unique.
2:27:23That's just the impression.
2:27:32We've got, we purposely loaded a couple, as you can see, to get some releasable questions.
2:27:37How about if you round the approval question down?
2:27:38Approval is back down to 50, 50-31.
2:27:43Disapproval is down also.
2:27:44That is, it seemed to me that if you bear off my point, we're not through.
2:27:51And then I'm buying.
2:27:53The don't know is up to 19, which is the highest we've been for a long time.
2:27:58Here, if you have something in which public opinion is so strong in one direction, then identification of that helps you raise the evidence.
2:28:08And I think that despite the fact that we all know, because we read between the lines and we say, well, they do this indirectly, they've got to hear us, they've got to see it symbolically.
2:28:19It's interesting.
2:28:22The improve or disapprove of handling Vietnam was 4841.
2:28:27It's now 46-38.
2:28:30Two points on approval use, three points on disapproval.
2:28:34And the don't know went up to 16, which is, again, the highest don't know we've had.
2:28:39Whenever it was, it was.
2:28:42Strongly was.
2:28:44Then you get into the vote question for next week, which is also kind of interesting.
2:28:51Do you support President Nixon and his plan to end the war in Southeast Asia?
2:28:54Both of them.
2:28:56Now, before it was 72-18, now it's 71-16, which, in effect, is stronger.
2:28:59You gain one point on the math.
2:29:02The proposal made the Congress require the government to bring home all U.S. troops by the end of the year.
2:29:08You want your commission to vote for or against.
2:29:13Last week it was 68-20, 4.
2:29:14Now it's 63-19.
2:29:16So the 4 went down, so we don't know when they're going to sign it.
2:29:22Would you favor withdrawing them and finding a stake over it?
2:29:26Before it was $29.55.
2:29:26Now it's $27.42.
2:29:27We've lost some ground on that.
2:29:30The don't know goes up to $31, or before it was only $16.
2:29:33It may be the don't knows in this kind of a poll are because of the way that many questions are being asked.
2:29:42We need to stop the same as it's been before and still have a strong $100.
2:29:51Would you favor withdrawing them then?
2:29:5330-160 POWs, before it was 1175, now it's 1061.
2:29:57The WLF is up from 14 to 30.
2:30:00The don't know is way high, all the way through.
2:30:04And the don't knows comes out of the nose.
2:30:12As it came out of approval, the don't know went up on there.
2:30:17It was both ways.
2:30:20Is that...
2:30:21Typical, Bob, during a state shift of salmon?
2:30:26No.
2:30:27It's typical during a period of something like cattle.
2:30:31During the cattle period, they don't know when to weigh up.
2:30:35That's gracious because of them being on it night after night and they kick the don't-know-the-way-up.
2:30:40It's during a period of when something's happening, but it doesn't form a trend.
2:30:47Well, I think in Cali, I think there's no weather.
2:30:54My intuition is correct.
2:30:55This is not rough, but I have not identified strongly enough the law and order issues here.
2:31:01See my point?
2:31:02You always need to ask John to identify him for the winning cause.
2:31:07And I just don't think we're identified.
2:31:13I mean, we're on set and dancing around.
2:31:14We've never said we regret it, but I don't know if it's got true.
2:31:17We came down pretty hard on these backgrounders.
2:31:20We considered it appropriate.
2:31:21We considered it a highly satisfactory performance by the police.
2:31:26And that's the way these guys are carrying it.
2:31:29But, of course, they're carrying it as criticism.
2:31:36He said that it was obviously pragmatic politics that forced us to do that.
2:31:43Your point is strange.
2:31:45He's very emotional on this.
2:31:46Very emotional.
2:31:49Why?
2:31:51I was saying I might have him up for just a visit on it.
2:31:56Yeah.
2:31:56It'd be interesting just to say why you're so excited about this.
2:31:59Yeah.
2:31:59I'll do this.
2:32:02Are we concerned about Nazis?
2:32:05Well, you know, it may be some hidden thing.
2:32:06He may have had a nephew in this thing or some friend of his may have been judged or something.
2:32:11I'll get him then.
2:32:13We'll just find out.
2:32:16The list is certainly a good thing at this point.
2:32:23I mean, it's just about where it's been, isn't it?
2:32:27Yeah.
2:32:28The spreads are exactly the same.
2:32:29It's a 1931.
2:32:291931 spread.
2:32:295031 or 5334.
2:32:30It's what's happened is some people from both the group and this group have moved to the Delano.
2:32:38Always a part of it, maybe, is they see a lot of disturbance.
2:32:43They've got to fix their confidence in anything that's like the Cali thing.
2:32:47On the other hand, I think company has a point, John.
2:32:49I think he's right.
2:32:51He thinks that you've got to democratize.
2:32:53You've got to get out.
2:32:55And you've got to know that the president is a strong leader.
2:32:59And he's by God set up for this himself.
2:33:03See, at the time of counting, the Don't Know went up to 23.
2:33:05Okay.
2:33:07Way up.
2:33:09The big change, though, was when I said something.
2:33:13That's my point.
2:33:14But here, I had not had an opportunity to say anything on it.
2:33:18I mean, since the press conference, I've said it.
2:33:21Since the demonstrations began, it's just sort of leaked out.
2:33:26And the next time the Don't Know went up, it went up to 16 at the time of the veterans' demonstration.
2:33:32Then it went right back down to the 13th where it usually is right afterwards.
2:33:36Now it's back up again to the 19th.
2:33:39But there again, there again, we miss an opportunity.
2:33:44Why not?
2:33:49People tend to identify very directly and emotionally with leadership, but they don't see all these stylings that we see.
2:33:59Sure, everybody knows the President, but you say everybody knows he supports you.
2:34:05Not unless you get out there and in some way you've got to see it.
2:34:10You've got to personify it.
2:34:11You've got to personify it.
2:34:13You've got to say it.
2:34:13You've got to see the guy right out there, frankly, on camera.
2:34:18You've just got to say, I support these things.
2:34:22Next time we have one of these, why don't we put you in a sidecar with a blue helmet on?
2:34:28Well, you know, there was no accident.
2:34:30Grayley ran around all these things.
2:34:32And he told me, for no question, he told me, he identified as the guy that was leading the charge against the bad guys.
2:34:38And we did not know that.
2:34:40I mean, that's the thing that, it's the thing that Saylor does not really understand.
2:34:46Basically, there are a whole group of DR people who are always trying to avoid, you know, irritate too much the people we have to live with.
2:35:00And you should see them react and say, look, nobody has a constitutional right not to be arrested.
2:35:06Oh, just a pencil, sir.
2:35:11You need to say it.
2:35:15There's no place in the Constitution that says you're free from being racist.
2:35:20That just drives them off the wall.
2:35:24A very curious working concept of civil rights.
2:35:31Most of his kids that are on wiretapping help the others.
2:35:34People are on wiretapping.
2:35:37People are for Hoover.
2:35:38I mean, they're not for his age, but they're for the FBI.
2:35:41The people are for the cops.
2:35:42What the hell?
2:35:44And that's why we should not be so sensitive on this issue, in my opinion.
2:35:46I don't think we did this well.
2:35:51extremely well, but I don't think we exploited it enough.
2:35:55We had a goddamn city, and she was probably stepped up.
2:36:01They're playing a numbers game on this wiretapping thing.
2:36:06Oh, was that right?
2:36:07About 10 times.
2:36:08The administration had more wiretaps and all this.
2:36:10I heard Rowan on the GOP last night.
2:36:14Is there any question about that?
2:36:15He claims there is, and he... Well, there is, because it's...
2:36:19The question gets to the unauthorized taps versus authorized taps.
2:36:24On unauthorized, by the court, we have the figures.
2:36:28Those are the figures you're using.
2:36:29Of course, we're much lower.
2:36:30On total taps, we're much higher.
2:36:32Because we have a law.
2:36:33Because we have a law on the transfer taps.
2:36:35I think he said just the opposite.
2:36:38It would be worth getting that transfer all the way.
2:36:41He said it the opposite.
2:36:42He said we had more...
2:36:44He said we had more...
2:36:46Unauthorized steps.
2:36:48No, no, no.
2:36:48It's wrong.
2:36:50Well, I've been constant.
2:36:51That's what he said.
2:36:52I've got an automation basically to forget the authorized and unauthorized.
2:36:56The national security checks, those are basically the unauthorized.
2:37:02Are they ones that are not through court?
2:37:04Right.
2:37:04That's for twice as many in the Kennedy period.
2:37:06And we've cut down, way down on those.
2:37:08We've got a million right now.
2:37:10Okay?
2:37:14Yes.
2:37:14We don't have any out of here.
2:37:16He cut them all out.
2:37:19It's a standard practice.
2:37:21Before he goes out to testify.
2:37:25So he better just get away with it.
2:37:31Well, yeah, okay.
2:37:33On the ground.
2:37:35It's 8 o'clock in the morning.
2:37:37They can't tell you about it.
2:37:38I'll make some calls.
2:37:40I think we've got to bring him in on the deal.
2:37:41Okay.
2:37:42I'm sure we'll get it together.
2:37:43What about you?
2:37:44What is your view?
2:37:45Did you think of an idea?
2:37:53Actually, we may not have exploited this enough.
2:38:05No, I don't think so.
2:38:10Oh, I think it's absolutely clear.
2:38:14And the criticism is, which also helps.
2:38:18The criticism is also directed here.
2:38:22For all this stuff.
2:38:24It's just right under our hands.
2:38:26And I wouldn't tip it to anybody.
2:38:28I wouldn't give that to anybody.
2:38:29I wouldn't give it to Colson.
2:38:30I wouldn't give it to anyone.
2:38:36We'll have a question now, and then for a purpose, I would have missed them.
2:38:39I wouldn't be there for the reason that I don't want people to know how really much Young for a turn called by these things.
2:38:46Young.
2:38:46I said that, again, the knowledge is power of questioning.
2:38:49Knowing this gives you a hell of a lot.
2:38:50I have to give those things again.
2:38:51And then they have to run down the, how do they, the training numbers.
2:39:00Well, on approval, it was 32 during the veterans' approval.
2:39:0232-42.
2:39:02All right.
2:39:04Then, right after the press conference,
2:39:08So what did you ask there?
2:39:09What do you think demonstrations?
2:39:11Same question.
2:39:12There we said a series of demonstrations against the Vietnam War is taking place in Washington.
2:39:16Do you approve or disapprove of these demonstrations?
2:39:1830-64.
2:39:19What?
2:39:1930-64.
2:39:19Okay, so 32-42 down to 30-64.
2:39:22Right.
2:39:22And then to the press conference to let it ride their cart.
2:39:28Lastly, this week it was 18-71.
2:39:40That's higher than it was last October, you realize that?
2:39:46I mean, it's October 69.
2:39:48Remember that period, 65.
2:39:51Yeah, 68.
2:39:51This is a lower approval, down 18%.
2:39:54I think it was 21-16, I can't recall that.
2:39:57And the approver disagreed with the way the police handled the demonstrators.
2:40:03See, that's the straightest possible question I can get at, right?
2:40:0856 approved, 18 disapproved.
2:40:09Still a 26 no opinion.
2:40:11Alright.
2:40:11That's without giving any guidance.
2:40:15Then we said, do you feel the police were or were not justified in making mass arrests of the demonstrators who threatened to stop the government by blocking traffic into Washington, D.C.?
2:40:25That's a loaded question.
2:40:27Well, but it's absolutely fact.
2:40:28That was true.
2:40:29It's precisely what they did.
2:40:30Justified 76, not justified 10.
2:40:3410-9, do you think the Washington police used too much force in handling the demonstrators?
2:40:40About the right amount, or were the police too easy?
2:40:44Too much, 11.
2:40:45About right, 40.
2:40:47Too easy, 23.
2:40:4763.
2:40:4763 versus 11.
2:40:54And then Dan saw it and said, you know, support President Nixon's plan to end the war, 71-16.
2:40:59That's, that's, that's something, well, one of these credits, if you see it as the end of the war, it's like, sure, I don't think it's Nixon.
2:41:06But we put the Nixon name in.
2:41:07We don't say, do you support the President's plan?
2:41:09We say, do you support President Nixon in his plan to end the war?
2:41:13I see.
2:41:15So, I mean...
2:41:23Yeah, it's kind of complex.
2:41:25On Tuesday, they're going to announce the director of the Cancer Institute who will report directly to the president and make the thing in a message to Congress.
2:41:36Saying the best cancer hospital institute in the country is in New York City, Sloan Kettering.
2:41:42They put together a briefing or status report on the fight against cancer by Monday.
2:41:46You can helicopter in there after the accessing of land.
2:41:50which would act as a story setter for the announcement the following day.
2:41:53Now, we wouldn't play it out.
2:41:55We'd just do it.
2:41:56Now, let's really accomplish anything.
2:41:58Well, the reason it doesn't accomplish anything is something else, again.
2:42:01There's no way to go into New York when the New York police always do it.
2:42:04It's just having a hell of a lot of people out there.
2:42:05You'll have the bastards out there.
2:42:08No, we will not go.
2:42:10Yeah, that's not it.
2:42:12Don't go into the city at this point.
2:42:14You can't do it without having New York's rattle come out from the region.
2:42:19There's one story a day.
2:42:21There's one story a day.
2:42:24Go ahead.
2:42:42Well, the question of doing the planning of Gideon's Army business group, you had said you wanted to get them on the letter, and you were going home.
2:43:08The proposal to Congress, would you like to have your Congressman vote for the end of the war, you know, end of this year?
2:43:15You know, in January, so it's 73 percent.
2:43:19Our poll has shown on April 12th it was 63, May 1st 68, May 16th 63.
2:43:29And against it, though, was 63 April 12th, right after your Vietnam speech, was 63-28.
2:43:37Then I went to 68-20 after the press conference.
2:43:43Then I was back down to 63-19.
2:43:45The undecided along the way.
2:43:47Our positions, he wrote it there.
2:43:50Because right after the Vietnam speech, it was 63-28.
2:43:53It was 28 against.
2:43:53Now it was only 19 against.
2:43:54It was undecided.
2:43:57It was 9 undecided.
2:43:59I was 18.
2:44:01But this whole poll is high undecided for some reason.
2:44:03It sure is.
2:44:06And it may be the poll.
2:44:10It may be the events.
2:44:10It could be.
2:44:12But then, even if it meant a communist takeover, it was, after the Vietnam speech, it was 2757.
2:44:22No.
2:44:23That's 2955 after the press conference.
2:44:26You lost a little ground there.
2:44:31Now it's 2742. 29...
2:44:36Quite a little ground there.
2:44:412742.
2:44:43It's still strongly numb, but it's not by anywhere near that.
2:44:51It used to be 2 to 1.
2:44:52On the question of the POWs, it was 1175.
2:44:57Now it's 1061.
2:44:58Well, we lost a chunk there.
2:45:00But all done and decided.
2:45:04This pole has a very big, one of these, has a very big undecided one.
2:45:14Okay.
2:45:16Wow.
2:45:21This is the Marvel's charge on the Hulk Cap.
2:45:24I'm sorry to see that.
2:45:28He's got a little problem now.
2:45:29Well, I don't know.
2:45:30We've got to find out.
2:45:31I hope to help you guys.
2:45:33He claims that it's a fixed fix.
2:45:37But I don't know if that's on my answer.
2:45:40We've got to find out.
2:45:41It's pretty hard to put that kind of a fix on it.
2:45:43There isn't something there.
2:45:46The definition of sodomy, it says sodomy.
2:45:48I think that's a little bit more than that.
2:45:51I think sodomy is what it is.
2:45:54I think sodomy is probably sodomy.
2:45:59Spotting me is an unnatural act.
2:46:01But anyway, I hope he's still with us.
2:46:10I don't think I should right now.
2:46:17Until we know what the thing is, he doesn't want to do us any harm.
2:46:22And if he gets cleared, then you ought to give him a call.
2:46:26A little problem.
2:46:28Who knows?
2:46:29These people, you know, the highly, you know, the artistic types do have those problems.
2:46:34They'll run around, you know, and so forth and so on.
2:46:39We are that quiet enough to just think about it.
2:46:41It just may be that this morning, aren't you?
2:46:45Yes.
2:46:47I think that was a very good thing.
2:46:52That made a strong statement.
2:47:01The next craziest police go very big on the day of the thing.
2:47:09which was a good time for it to ride.
2:47:11In other words, before you do, you weren't waiting to see what the results were.
2:47:13You were praising them for the way they moved to handle it to begin with.
2:47:17That got big, yeah.
2:47:19And got a very big play.
2:47:21There hasn't been much this week.
2:47:23A lot in between, because there hasn't been any direct statement out of here or any direct involvement.
2:47:27You see, I've watched those numbers and all those minutes, and now, I mean, Ron just gets a little bit of a...
2:47:34He gets lost hammering his thing from there, doesn't he?
2:47:37He doesn't even know who to see.
2:47:38He's avoided it.
2:47:41He just said, well, the president doesn't say anything about it except that he does not back, does not regret it.
2:47:46Well, you know, he's not, he said it's fully satisfied and proves it.
2:47:49But they don't use it.
2:47:50They won't use that because that's not what they want.
2:47:52What they want is it, but he regrets it.
2:47:54And I believe civil rights were obstructed to, and because I think they may know themselves that this is a position that can help us.
2:48:03Exactly.
2:48:03So, you've got it.
2:48:06Now this thing, why didn't they get a little play tonight?
2:48:11Why not?
2:48:11It would have been better to have done yesterday timing-wise, but you wouldn't have gotten a play.
2:48:15You'll get a better play out of it tonight.
2:48:17You think so?
2:48:18Yeah, I think you will.
2:48:19Because you had that with the unpleasant and the farm business out here and all that stuff yesterday.
2:48:25And also, it would not have been good to have tried to top the farm story.
2:48:31Much as we, you know, in the farm store, we had to play it out, so we did it.
2:48:36Well, he would have gotten the negatives on it, whatever he did.
2:48:39He needed a positive on it.
2:48:43The way we could get it across to the states, you know, if you did this, you could have Colson to have these congressmen, loyal congressmen and senators, some of them, command the president.
2:48:53You know, I know they can't get a letter or anything, but they got one.
2:48:55I think, you know, we could get people on the phone and take it.
2:49:00They are, and then it gives you a basis for it in some way to identify with it.
2:49:08I don't know how to do it.
2:49:24We've still got a lot of guns.
2:49:25Yeah?
2:49:25We've got this war group moving around.
2:49:28We've got .
2:49:29Do you realize that?
2:49:31They're all on the wrong side of this issue.
2:49:34They really are.
2:49:35Now, John says a lot of them are really troubled and really are against this.
2:49:39They really are not.
2:49:41They are against it for the wrong reasons.
2:49:43They think serving the anti-war cause.
2:49:46They would be bored if they thought of helping the anti-war cause.
2:49:48That's exactly right.
2:49:49By God, that's a hell of a thing.
2:49:51And, uh, I just want Colson to...
2:49:55They're against it for the same reason that Tunney's against it.
2:49:59Do you, uh... Do you want to let... No, I don't think you ought to give Colson the figures.
2:50:07He's like a...
2:50:08I can just say that we get hard.
2:50:10We're a damn solid bunch of people.
2:50:12Right.
2:50:13And really, I think we should have top priority.
2:50:16Nobody knows who even pulled this.
2:50:18We should.
2:50:24standing by the police, watching.
2:50:26And then I told her, it was later that she was not getting put out there.
2:50:30We just, we're going to do the same thing if anybody comes in again.
2:50:33We're just putting people on warning.
2:50:36This town's going to, the government's going to run.
2:50:40This is going to be a peaceful and orderly city.
2:50:43They might find us over a period of time, probably pick us and accretion us here.
2:50:49on this issue, don't you think so?
2:50:52I mean, the debate goes on.
2:50:56I've got an idea.
2:50:56Is it worth, in this instance, is it worth the lady say something on this?
2:51:01The president deserves great credit for his firm leadership.
2:51:07Could he say that?
2:51:09I mean, I don't think he would call out and say that.
2:51:13I think it's very important to him.
2:51:20Hey, we know that this is an overwhelming majority of people's voices leading to Mitchell.
2:51:25Let me give Mitchell one, just one figure, you know what I mean?
2:51:31And if he could say it, he would say, you know, should we let him talk?
2:51:37No?
2:51:37I'm afraid he won't do it, but...
2:51:41Why the hell should he though?
2:51:42He's going to hit the thing anyway.
2:51:44Why can't he do it in terms of saying he's just commenced?
2:51:48The president, we have a president who stands firm against disorderly conduct.
2:51:55Against disruptive conduct.
2:51:56He kept the government, he keeps the government going.
2:51:58And if Buchanan's going to go off on his trip, who the hell do we got around to write that sort of thing right now for everyone?
2:52:08Let's see.
2:52:10I think this guy's a sapphire.
2:52:11You know, he's got a lot of big goals, some of them sound interesting.
2:52:17They've kind of got pretty much the same.
2:52:20Would you, or do you think, do you think, let's let Agnew, I don't think Agnew should hit the kids.
2:52:24I mean, I mean, they, you know, he did.
2:52:28Let me say, as usual, stop.
2:52:30Yeah.
2:52:32He's going to talk about it anyway.
2:52:35Go to the positive side of it, which is that he could be very positive about the remarkable achievement of how this all ended up at the back of the president.
2:52:50I think that's enough, as Mitchell and then let Dole work with you.
2:52:55I mean, let Colson work with you, Congressman.
2:53:05You know what they do to these cockroaches in here?
2:53:13You gotta damn dang.
2:53:17All the rest of it was just rushing in there like hell.
2:53:20That's why Teddy must have this kind of information.
2:53:22I can't understand why he went the way he did.
2:53:25It's got to be, it's got to be him.
2:53:27Well, now, unless he just thought he was in the highest priority, saying what they'd like to hear.
2:53:31The highest priority, Colson's got this.
2:53:32We used to hang the Democrats with this.
2:53:33Tie it into the demonstrators.
2:53:35Tie it into the police.
2:53:36And let's try to go both ways.
2:53:39If it's them, we're going to take them on.
2:53:45You know, he could take on, I didn't know he could take on any kind of deal.
2:53:53And then go on, and then again, as I say, let's take on Muskie for his support of the demonstration.
2:53:59Without mentioning his disavowal later.
2:54:02Okay.
2:54:02I think that's what you're mentioning.
2:54:09A lot of, uh, a lot of reaction.
2:54:11Who's speaking on Alex's end?
2:54:16How do they all think they're going to make anything look bad by having him step up to this and having him step up?
2:54:23And the guy goes, and I mentioned he's going to be all along the streets of the sheriff's anyway on Monday.
2:54:29He might get it very hard out there.
2:54:31He worked with the president, the president worked with him, and he was...
2:54:35We have a president that supported the chief of police.
2:54:38He supports him now.
2:54:39He supported him in the first instance.
2:54:42And he supports him now when he's under attack for enforcing the law.
2:54:46And he will support law enforcement officials when they enforce the law fairly.
2:54:51Something like that.
2:54:52And some officials can get that into a speech.
2:54:58That's it.
2:54:58Thank you.
2:55:18The movement has been mainly to the, it's been almost exclusively on the side of this.
2:55:30Yeah.
2:55:40And on our previous poll, the last one you took, the poll, it was 53-33.
2:55:45Our last poll was right after the last press conference was 53-33, right?

Nixon, Haldeman & Ziegler on public opinion and demonstrations

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Also recorded on May 8, 1971

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