On May 7, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:26 pm to 1:02 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 495-018 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
When you have people like that, I have a feeling that what it's going to cause, whether I want to get into a conversation with them, it's definitely going to break down the distance.
So forth.
I had a memo that was on the desk that I hadn't gotten to, so I got it there.
I think that's a good summary, yes.
They can make GW so they can have their own listening and bureaucrats work together, which they want to do.
But it puts the people at the top where I can kick them in the ass, which is what we need.
We need the command, but the campaigner and our chiefs are not going to stick as much in the ass if they don't come along.
If it doesn't work, we'll bring it on.
But we'll call the authority.
The cancer authority will be in an age how it was there, et cetera, et cetera.
But directly...
And he has talked to Packard on a call in his meeting with him at 2 o'clock today.
He says Packard's, and he's also talked to Larry, Packard's modified his extreme reaction some, but he's still adamant opposed to the decision to be modeled.
Do you think so?
And this is more short than that.
He said it's not this decision that's got Packard on staff.
That may be the straw, but it's obviously more of a problem than that.
Yeah.
Well, once it's been hard to follow through.
Shouldn't be hard for him to stand up to that kid.
It's gotta be.
Father, who knows all that David Packard knows, can't stand up to this, can he?
There's a real problem.
Yes, there is a problem.
There is a problem in America with regard to the age of consent.
David Rock, I can't stand up to it.
What do I have to tell my kids?
My kids will do.
One of my kids is disagreeing.
A lot of my kids' friends disagree.
John's kids disagree.
They've been raising hell a long time.
That's how he gives in.
But John does.
John was a very strong person.
John had a showdown with his oldest son.
His son was going to come to Washington on one of the protests.
How old is Cliff Stamps with Stanford Group?
He's at Stanford.
He's 19 or 20.
He was going to come last year.
One of the protesters called John and told him he was going to come.
John said, that's fine.
It's your decision to make.
You'll have to decide what you feel is right to do.
I want you to know the consequences.
If you do, by that time, I will have to resign.
You're going to come.
Stay out.
California can't do it.
You can't do it.
But, first of all, unemployment declined from 30 to 10% in March of 2019, for a period, and was unchanged for full-time workers.
There was an increase among part-time workers.
Now, who in the name of Christ are part-time workers?
You know what I mean?
And the labor market extended.
Now, you see the part-time workers, it's a hell of a thing to play with those bigotry.
I mean, you put us on here, you can say we have the most people unemployed that we've ever had.
The other side is we have the most people employed that we've ever had.
Church.
Come on, ladies.
Come on, ladies.
Come on, ladies.
Come on, ladies.
I think that Poplar and Acker are going to be worthwhile.
And Peter was saying... Bill Rogers.
Bill Rogers said we want to get him involved in the Acker bullshit.
He wants to go to Acker State sometime.
And I think he dropped into a couple of Ackers and I think it would be worthwhile.
See, Bill agrees.
And if he does, we could, you know, change the convoluted testing.
Yeah, this is, uh, apparently, uh, our history of antitrust in Greece and Russia, where was that?
Yeah, it was good.
That's why he didn't say anything to you about saying hello to Dr. Takashi or something.
I didn't remember.
He mentioned it after he left.
He said he had said something to you about Takashi.
No, no, I'm wrong.
It was in his letter.
No, it was in his letter.
In Chesler's letter, he said something about him in regards to Dr. Takashi.
We've got to figure it out.
We've got to do something.
We've got to do something.
As much as I hate it, and I like to do it from a personal standpoint, and now and then I may do something so from a personal standpoint, I cannot justify the use of time unless we exploit it.
And I can't justify clergy or anything around here unless we exploit it.
I mean, it's a hell of a damn thing to actually include, but it's truly serious.
That's why, absolutely, you just don't want them.
You're just, it's so absolute.
You're going to have to go to this city, go to that city.
You know what I mean?
And many of the places we went, it's like, rah, rah, we go.
And we get exploited.
It's not true.
We get exploited.
Maybe it's like, you know what I mean?
Maybe you're the team director.
You don't have enough.
Maybe it was some preparation that you were going all in.
They get together and really, like, like they're not getting together in a canter.
They should get together.
You know, and try to get it perfect.
See, if you get, I mentioned something else where I said, now let's all get together and let's get a, let's get a game plan.
And let's see what, and also the IDA and all those, getting this set up.
Some names or floaters or something like that.
I'm sure they can get right along.
I just wonder if there's somebody that's got to be commanded.
Well, that's Chuck Swirlman.
He's in the pre-archive.
No, but that's...
The archivist is coming in the archivist.
I see.
Okay.
I'm sure he...
He's got the...
He's got the monster...
He's moving on it to pick it up wherever it is.
But he could see, he knows it's walking.
God damn, they're rich.
He said, you're absolutely right.
They are the most useless bunch and probably the richest bunch.
That's right.
And obviously, whatever decision we've made, we've helped somebody.
And that's the only way to get the blood out.
It's around the future.
So we do get blood out.
Well, we've done a lot of criminal things.
And he mentioned another one that
Thank you.
Where we got the mileage, we're closing in.
Good.
Have a good one.
Good.
The Ruckelshaus was quite a suggestion.
I understand that John was trying to squeeze Ruckelshaus back a few lanes.
Now, for example, on a motor car safety, I knocked out that goddamn airbag.
And also, it was a question of...
And, uh, all the lights flashed for, for, to see that stuff.
I knocked those out.
I got them out.
We, we all, the audience, you know, bored them.
But there must be a, you know, there must be a mobile association or something.
Aren't there?
There is.
And there are another huge lot.
Chris, those bastards said they'll be back in jail on the, on the...
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Well, they know that they have to back down on that.
They are at fault there.
They may not be able to do it by this time, but we know we have to stop that.
That has to be stopped.
Everybody knows that.
Socially, there's no way that they can handle that.
Other countries, we're all talking about it.
That's not what I'm talking about.
Yes, there's a lot of bureaucratic middlemen.
It's not consumerism.
Well, there you're repeating the individual's question.
When a guy's driving a car and he doesn't have a seatbelt on, he may kill himself, but that's his privilege.
Yeah.
He's driving a car and bumping that exhaust valve, then he may kill other people, and that is his privilege.
They can make that little difference on that basis.
The boys and girls want to get into the whole thing.
Actually, we're trying to get Henry in here.
We'll see what the hell works out.
I talked to Henry last night.
I think this has been a good thing.
He said he's getting really good reps.
He's not in any good spirits and meeting a lot of people.
I said, what are you doing tonight?
He said to call him back, you know, within 15 minutes.
I said, I'm sorry I kept him maybe late for dinner.
It was at 11 o'clock at night.
And it's our time.
I said, who you got lined up for tonight?
He wouldn't tell me.
And I said, I don't know.
He's going to know who Ben is serving.
I said, how did you know that?
And I said, I got you a tailor.
And he said, Ben, I'll tell you who it is tonight.
Zeppo Lawrence.
I couldn't believe him, but he was serious.
He was going to dinner with Zeppo Lawrence.
He loves him.
He loves him.
It's a little crazy, you know, Zappo Marx is still alive.
Did you not hear he did what he got?
Yes.
What were you talking about?
I assumed he did, but I...
I thought it was Zappo.
I heard it live.
It sounded like I thought that was 60 seconds.
Was it?
Yeah, I thought he was...
I thought it was about 75 when he got to the line.
Good.
The main problem with most people I find in business is advertising, law, and politics.
Advertising is quite so bad.
I think they're so goddamn cautious and careful about counting their money.
You know, sales and so forth, they just lose it out.
And it has the very highest levels.
It's an interesting thing to note.
Like a lot of our crowd, we went on at the recess, the business council and so forth, the very highest levels.
I mean, I think what happened to this promotion was the selection of chief executive officers for us.
That was definitely a prominent job.
And if the guy doesn't get the job, it tends to lead to a nursing problem.
And I think it works both ways.
I think you're right.
The guy gets a lot of bypass at the middle level somewhere, tends to just start some boozing instead of working.
He isn't trying anymore.
Yeah.
And he just doesn't know what the hell is making the difference.
And so he goes to the country club more often.
And he's very suspicious and frustrated, so he's stuck with us.
But the other thing is, some of the people who get those types of levels become extremely, well, they become, they don't,
their habits become much more restraining today.
As a matter of fact, some of them become just bell-tale, too.
They're just afraid of anything.
They're afraid to do complicated things.
What I was thinking was that next week we will know what we're going to do.
It's to me that the time to go on the next press day, I don't think we should run an office press conference, sir.
I don't know if that was wrong doing this.
I think we've, uh, at least on how old we are, that's Saturday.
Yeah.
I think we've jumped.
But I think what we ought to do is to run a press conference following.
In other words, hit three weeks later.
Provided.
Provided.
Or unless, unless we have assault here.
Do you know what I mean?
It's all either for something to announce, say, a cancer even.
Then we go off of that.
We can announce it either the week of the 12th, 10th, or the week of the 17th.
Then I think we should go with the press conference on the 27th, which is the date we presently select.
Which one did I get?
We, uh...
We were going to Florida that night.
We were at the conference.
Yeah.
Had the conference at 10 o'clock, 9 o'clock.
They called Florida a chance to plan.
I think so too.
Get there, you'd be in bed by 5 o'clock.
That's better than sleeping here and going in in the morning.
Exactly.
You lose the day.
If you have to get up here, there...
Well, he just don't like the idea.
I mean, I think your feeling is right about getting up here in the plane and going up to the airport and flying to Florida.
There's just something wrong with that.
You're here, you ought to do something here.
Well, then we'll do that.
So with all the plans, the office then will be held.
Just keep the 13th over by the case I want last.
But we'll see.
You'll find the infrastructure is, everything now comes together like either does or doesn't.
He doesn't think much of the China Act as a possibility.
He says you may get to a point where you'll want to send a high-level delegation or something.
He doesn't think you're going to work out enough.
I mean, you've just got to remember it isn't to their interest.
Okay, it is to the Russians at this point, even though they don't want you re-elected, it's to their own problems, too.
They don't want you re-elected.
The thing about the Russians, the main thing about the China thing, and Henry's, you see, Henry, there's not a whole lot of work on that, is there?
The China thing is important, really, because it helps the Russians.
I agree.
You could end up with a double part of it.
If China helped you with Russia and you got the Russian summit this fall, in September, then you could still go for a China summit in the spring.
Or summer.
Or summer.
by spring of next year.
You'd have to do it before then, right?
Right.
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before then, right?
You'd have to do it before
The deal about the briefings and all that, about John, that's what they did to you?
No.
Oh, no.
John didn't give you briefings.
He had one deal with you.
I'm not considering anybody.
I'm not going to give them that opportunity.
I mean, they...
I would appreciate it.
It's different because Johnson was not a candidate for re-election.
As a candidate, you have no, it would be right for you to not vote for him.
Correct.
And you're right, I'm not expecting, let's see, what Henry expects of the Chinese is that he'll sit down with the Chinese foreign minister or somebody.
They'll agree to send him to Oregon.
Now, that's why I disagree with this.
I disagree with this one.
I don't think we've got that problem.
I may be misreading out, but my opinion of Abe's view is that he doesn't see anything ending the war in Vietnam except the course we're on, and just the draft.
That might be a disengagement.
He also, I pushed him on that draft thing.
He said they screwed us on that and that we aren't going to get the draft thing until next spring, if at all.
Because as soon as they make the commitment of no draftees to Vietnam, they then will have no volunteers.
But all this, I mean, to try and get the... His argument is that Laird has screwed it, and that Laird has gone for trying to get the volunteer army too fast, and therefore ruined his opportunity for getting the draftees out.
If we hadn't pushed so fast on building towards the volunteer army, we could still hold the...
He's in the process now to a point.
He has to go to two levels in Europe and all this stuff.
He's got them down to a point where he's...
When you get down to a certain level, there's just no room for
It's not all going to fall in line in two and a half months.
And there's that ball I made rushing over there and so forth.
So he'd go up there and look down at the east and it's just basically an old car to just keep their money.
He might try to get a date, you know, so he might throw this.
Or he might take a trade mission over and so forth.
I'd hope to get on record so that if something goes there, the riders would want to go over there.
I share hope that the first one could be him.
I agree.
And he didn't do that.
He said he would kill the whole goddamn thing by sending some representative.
As long as they're supporting me, I'll try to get in other hands.
Well, we'll make some progress on it.
You made a final announcement about us, so I think you can go this spring.
On the other hand, we have to realize that they wear their emergency gear that they're going to buy.
They might buy fancy or whatever.
Yeah.
I'm making a resolution to make the illegal display of the Vietcong bike until the warm day, 9 September.
Good.
And I also am picking up the files.
I also saw a third one put in my suggestion to make them, make demonstrators pay for their damage.
Yeah, yes.
I suggested that to Mitchell.
That's good to know.
Yep.
But they, Dennis and Hill are picking up some of the stuff.
I'm trying.
I'm afraid of the demonstrators, which is really the difference.
Up to now, they've been afraid to condemn them because they think people are poor.
I think now they know
That's not fair.
They're going to give you a home.
They're going to give you a home.
They're going to keep the nuts, bell-a-hats, oak, and bronze domes for those people.
Of course.
They're companies.
You know that.
Shit, that's what they are.
No question for a bell-a-hat is what it is.
Domes.
But he didn't ask that.
And he didn't bring that.
It's a miscarriage.
It's a miscarriage.
I'm not going to take it anymore.
But you see, some of these guys that are at home, they're all got their little fingers up in the air.
And we just may have to write this one down.
And that's the case with the press conference.
Don't you agree with me that we do not get, we do not get the, we don't have the draft.
We really ought to do the
It would possibly can.
Well, the further away from his election, the better, anyway.
And I think it ought to be done, indeed, once we get the announcement.
It's like an anniversary.
Henry Ruffalo, I know his concern is wrong.
He wants to put it to get his class and his class don't make a big difference.
They aren't going to be effective on which.
They'd like to knock off that ventilated number of carats by a clue or something like that.
It may be that they will not invite him.
That they may take care of him.
That's right.
Now, they can't read much into the demonstration, because there's just no question that that had blocked him.
No, no, the other thing we have to know about the other guy.
We have to realize they're doing things for their own reasons.
That's the thing we've got to watch.
I've always understood it as a cultural, churchy proposition and all this crap that was done now.
Demonstrations used to affect us.
They don't anymore.
Years ago, when we had a hell of a lot of people there at the demonstration, we didn't give them a hold because we didn't have a problem.
But Jesus thought of it.
Now we're going down.
Demonstrations don't make money.
They don't make money.
They see us go down and say, well, we're going to get it anyway.
Why the hell are we free?
Hell, they're going to sign it.
They're going to run out of time.
If you look at part-time workers, I'm sure you can imagine the diversity of the full-takers in the Department of Labor, you know, who have a lot of part-time workers.
That's got to get you to that bigger dimension.
I'm sure that you could.
Yeah, we pulled in tonight, and there are a hundred people in that boat.
And you know, last night and tonight, it takes two nights to do it.
It takes two to do it in one night, and it's very...
Part of why they got started early in order to do it, we all said, I do not need to get it ready.
They don't have enough phones and people to do it right.
Which is very interesting.
I think, though, that there's an essential, at least, accomplishment involved in this investigation.
As long as we're here, it won't come to a little difference.
They don't like these damn damn shirts.
Their brothers don't.
I like how these colleagues have taken it up to the top.
I mean, I wore a dress the way they did, you know?
Does it?
I don't know, it seems to me that's all the kind of faith he even carries out condemning the... he condemns the despotish, yeah?
He's a webmaker in the air, too, isn't he?
I'm sure he's interested in political career.
You're trying to do things, damn it.
Christ, come on.
Yeah, there's something strange there.
And the press is attacking him on it.
They're not building it up.
Crescent Park.
I filled that up until I wouldn't have it.
Apparently some guy who was at that meeting, and I'm a cop here, I guess it was quite a thing.
One of the hard hat guys was there, and they'd reported Olsen on him.
But then he had a report from somebody else, one of Mulcahy's guys, I guess.
Somebody that this guy, Kennedy, started taking on the administration or defending the demonstrators.
Some guy in the middle of the dinner stood up, cupped his hands and shouted, Holy shit!
And Kennedy, I guess it just completely, the students started clapping.
And the other people, you know, were kind of astonished.
And Kennedy apparently had kind of a rough time with the thing.
Which, of course, doesn't get out.
And I'll make sure to check that.
I'll have to have to do that.
Figure out what...
But I think the reason I would move the press conference up to three weeks is that we want to get 100% before the summer.
So we might go up on a three-week basis.
Now, on the other hand, we wouldn't go up three weeks if we got a hell of a good announcement.
Then you've got two prime times.
But if we don't have an announcement,
Then we do that for three weeks, and then flip out the CQ and get that one in.
That would be the next time.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yep.
I didn't talk to Henry about it, no.
He's got to call me, too.
That's the point.
Yeah, sure.
Yes.
Well, if he's got to call me, then you can call him.
That's it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think he'll find a way to adjust his other things to it.
Well, we'll probably consider it.
The other thing is, as soon as you leave it, that you're just considering it, he won't court the other stuff, no?
No.
The other thing is, they are...
Not as important as he thinks they are, but that's the whole point.
They're not going to have that much effect.
He isn't going to go to the Department of Change or administer and solve the war.
It is not going to happen.
He isn't going to go to Paris and solve the war.
That's not going to happen.
See, that's where my evaluation direction is.
And so I think those people can go on and talk about it.
But we just move right along on our own.