Conversation 495-021

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Let me say, I have three or four things I want to talk to you about.

And the first is, when I took you by your hand, I didn't have Jim here.

The first thing was Lockheed.

I don't want to discuss Lockheed while he's here.

And excuse me, because he was in it.

And I'd love Bill to be here.

And I want to tell you about a new development that's occurred.

And then I spoke to him, I gave him a chance to get to my school, and I was seeing him several times.

I don't even know what the plan is, because that's all that you may have heard about it.

I don't know what it is, but you heard something about what I'm talking about.

First step, we decided to go to Washington.

Now,

It's a tough one because there's a lot of people that don't want to go to Lockheed due to the fact that Lockheed has had some bad experiences like most major border contractors on some things.

Overruns.

Let me ask you about that.

You cannot have war contracts without having some hope rooms.

How do you make a new weapon and not expect it to cost more?

It's natural you guys like it.

No question about it.

We have a large base.

The other hand, we live in Washington.

The economy hasn't been as relevant as it should have been.

We're impressed with the point of view.

But there are about 30 lives, you know, there are 35, 30,000 subcontractor lives, including 20,000, there are 20,000 subcontractors who hire 500 or less who have contracts of lunch.

And that, therefore, means that this is small business, it's jobs, it's everything else, so where do you want to pull out of it?

Now,

We also, I met yesterday with Jerry Ford.

And he has that bullet of Massachusetts.

And they're all lined up now.

On Tuesday or Wednesday of next week, the military appropriations supplemental comes up.

It has a provision of $38 million or so as a termination cost for SSP.

Bo will make a motion to strike that and to put it in place during the year for SSP.

Now, I don't get down to about 30 Republicans that voted against SSE.

Some of them for special little reasons, you know, like, well, I didn't have my project with this or that or the other thing.

Excuse me, how much of this Democratic opposition

Well, as far as the holdback is concerned,

Uh, we will, we will mute quite a bit of that before this will, it's very, I've got to find a better version on that to see.

See, we're gonna, when, when the, when the new fiscal year comes, July 1st, the whole act stops, then we don't, and there's gonna be no, we don't have a deadline, we don't have an order, and here we're gonna go.

But we are gonna try to get out as many as we can.

Projects where people are experiencing tributes among them.

But a lot of the honesty is quite honest.

it's quite honest in terms of you know this uh you always always have that problem

So here's what we're planning.

First, what you're going to need to do is search the house.

Step forward and avoid the collision.

And if they have an easy chance to, uh, win the collision, they have to switch by in order to get a chance to stay away and to steer away from both sides.

Now, in order for it, in order to get its forward impact, you'll have to sit through in the house and it will be monitored if you leave it when in the house.

When it goes back to its tent.

All right.

The fellows that are for SSG have got to tell what would be the winner for Lockheed.

Now look here.

Will for Lockheed provided you with a vote for SSG.

Now the two, and it makes a lot of sense.

Because you see, you take fellows like Stoop and Mackie, the Pacific Northwest, and a lot of Californians too, but Stoop and Mackie particularly.

And another is the NFL, Georgia, who voted against SSG.

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So it gets down to stupid nagging my heart and saying, I'm here to support you, but I really need you to vote for this one.

So I wanted you to know that's what we're going to do.

Well, as you just said, if the Lockheed thing were to go on its own, I think we would get most of the people that voted for us to stay with us.

There's a couple more that would look at Lockheed.

It isn't the same problem, because Lockheed, well, Lockheed is his own son.

In other words, they are unique in some things, but they're similar, and the jobs are right there.

The SST thing, we kept getting the audience from across the deck that the more than 60,000 jobs, the more than 60,000 jobs that you can use, a lot of the time, there's more.

And once I touched on it, they're an awful lot more and a lot more to choose from.

And a lot of the SST will be exactly the same.

as it was on the SST for the same two reasons.

Number one, jobs.

We've got no bones in water.

We need jobs.

That's right.

Number two, we can't let a major American industry develop right now.

That's right.

It's just as simple as that.

And water is our biggest producer.

It's the biggest product.

And the prestige of this country, we can't give the mass-based industry to the French and the Russian and the American.

So there's no question where we stand, and we'll work in this for the time we've got in the air.

I thought we had a chance of winning that one, but my good friend, you were the front-runner.

I mean, the last one went off.

He promised me he'd go for it.

And the last one, we had breakfast the next day, and I said, I can't walk that hill.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

It's against the environment, you know.

What we would like, and I guess it's just what we would like to do each time you can, if you would, if you could tell us your thoughts on, from the end of this S.S.G.

or Tuesday or Wednesday,

You can tell your folks to stay firm in there.

Because if we win that in the House, you see, then even though we don't happen to make it to the Senate, we go back to the Senate, it goes to conference.

And in conference, we may be able to get a deal.

And if we can say yes as a team now,

And that box, we could change this whole thing.

See, that'd be a big double thing.

So I just... Well, we worked on it.

This was harder than we worked on the other one.

And we did work hard on that one.

We lost.

We lost 20 people.

who I will try my best to let him go.

He represents a job in the night matter.

We lost Muskie.

We lost everybody who signed him.

We picked him up.

Of course, we had Matty and Sue.

And, hell, I thought I could get you lost.

You lost Anderson.

And how did you get him?

I had hoped to get you under story.

We need three.

We need three to switch.

Because you see, it's a tie-in weapon.

So, we, but our first problem is to get the House.

Maybe I'll give you another chance to get back on the rise.

And I, and me, very frankly, I can say here that, uh, look, uh, he's a, he's a bald girl.

He's, uh, he's a, uh, one of the leading candidates for this party.

And he's, uh, he's with me not only to vote, but he has to speak.

We could take the lead, and we had hope.

If I hadn't taken the lead, we'd picked up maybe three or four watches.

You would have.

You would have seen it.

When he moved, it was coming.

That was it.

And when he moved, I knew what we were going to have to do.

But, you see, if we didn't get the house signed, this was a critical thing.

You could, in a time of need, you could do or have Andy do or anybody who held that thing.

to get the house falls.

And this boat is heading to Jersey Northwest, Jersey away.

It could come to us, but I think it's unlikely it's going to come to us.

We're going to start working on it.

I'm going to tell you why.

It's not going to work.

I'm sorry.

That's true.

But we...

We're going to take a hard swing at it, and we think there's even hands in the house to get this to get it back.

If that happens, then it puts the ball on the side of the court, and then we've got to work on three men to change.

Three men to change.

Now, we've got Cranston, we've got Thompson, we've got Gambrell, we've got Anderson.

I can't see Tony voting against London.

No, I can't either.

I can't vote against London.

What do you think?

I think so.

There's 31,000 jobs in the 10-11 alone, including logging and subcontractors.

9,000 labor all now.

The most important thing at the moment, from my point of view, is jobs.

Because despite the fact that there's been a change, a little shift in economy, I'm going to support whatever kind of a point you've got.

I mean, the capitalist world goes through, as you know, in terms of the chance scheme that's stopping great losses, reducing the losses.

Uh, because they've had such a lost membership, because they had so much concentration in aerospace, and they get hit at this point, it would probably cost them... Well, I'm sure they bought it, but I'm sure that they will still go with it in this case.

We think we're going to carry a lot of heat, but we're, uh, we're going to try to keep it together.

Because when you get those guys back, then we've got two, that'll help all the way around.

Because if you're talking about 9,000 to 10,000 dollars, it's a lot more.

What about cancellation obligations on the SSP at $80 million?

Now, let's figure it over with what, there's a lot more, because you see the companies, the subcontractors on the SSP,

Uh, and that, and others, they, you know, who were out, they got tax write-offs, you see.

Now, that, that comes out of the tax payers, you know.

So I think in terms of money, uh, it isn't going to, uh, it's going to be a wash. You know, I, uh, the, uh, this is, even though it isn't,

When a business writes off a two or three hundred million dollar loss, that's half, that is tax money, or 50%, 50% to the corporate tax.

So we're getting all that stuff together, and we'll have it together, and we're going to make a sling out of it.

And then the Senate thing, it will not come up versus, you know, it'll come in the next, we'll have time to work on that.

The House thing, if we win it, I think we have a good chance to win the Senate.

At least to put it in a position where it can be compromised out so we keep SSTMI.

That's what we're going to try to do.

So on the House thing, I think it's very important that they know

that you were for it.

I mean, the second time around.

And you can tell me that what is involved is a second thing, too, because I know that Jerry told me that several people that were for SST said, well, other people are against SST, why should we vote for Lockheed?

So, and that could happen.

I don't see, I don't believe at all.

That's true.

And they do that, but nevertheless, they can hold out.

They've got to play a hard game, though.

And if they do, we can make full smart attack.

So that's our... You know, this Seattle thing is really... And this town is really tight.

I mean, apartments empty all over the place.

People losing their jobs in businesses that have no relationship.

The thing is that so many people do not ever, they don't realize that

But it isn't just the jobs that are affected by a particular contract, but it's the ripple effect from everybody else.

Those people that have a whole can of these guys, the guys that have jobs that go in and buy cars.

So if they get out of a job, they don't buy cars.

They buy houses.

If they don't have a job, they don't buy houses.

Housing goes down.

Automobiles go down.

You've got to make money.

Yes, people who tell this law, I suppose it's

Well, we've got to go someplace else, you know, and try to make a living.

You just can't sit there.

So it has really hiked that down.

We have another subject I have to talk about from this swap.

Charles and Park are going against the New Sun.

They're going against the SST.

Yes, I know.

And it goes to Lockheed and Silty and King Kennedy.

I think.

Yes, I know.

Put it right, you know.

Actually, most of the people I talk to didn't understand the go-to-the-way against the SST.

Well, the environment is, you know, Florida's very big in the environment, you know, and all that sort of thing.

And he's a new man, and if you want to be, you're probably popular with that group.

But they have a chance.

We have a chance, and we're going to fight right down to the wire.

I think there's a good chance to run into the house with the SSG.

I don't know if it's a lucky rollercoaster thing,

And the British government is going to do something on the other side of the way out, I'm not sure.

See, Lockheed wasn't as healthy out, but Big Feather, Big Feather was in on this at lunchtime.

He's the head of the British training movement.

He has four of his fellas, four or five of his fellas, wasn't he?

And we were talking about this at lunchtime, and I asked him,

Whether it was official, he said, well, it is official, he said at the moment, but we're finding that the British government's going to, well, Congress, that's all it's going to do.

Congress has got to do it.

I can tell you that we can't talk about it with the British government.

And it says, all right, we'll go ahead with our guarantee.

We'll keep Rolls-Royce their side of the bargain.

And so we think we can win.

But we think now, and our whole aim is not to put the thing on the basis of jobs, just let everybody else talk about the environment.

and rescuing contractors and this and that for a job.

I don't want to do jobs.

I'm not going to do jobs.

Whoever you say, yes, sir, it is.

But we really have to, we've got to have some blood in the house now.

You see, these house members, a lot of them.

Well, I'll get ahold of Andy.

I'll get ahold of him right away, and I'll tell him to start coming down to Atlanta.

Yeah, Monday night and then Tuesday.

Yeah.

And then we go forward and see.

He's a very good man.

He's from Massachusetts, you know.

He's the leader.

He was the leader on the other side.

And he's taking the business to the Capitol.

And we've got all that group that are all lined up.

They're ready to go.

This is on the SST.

Yes, sir.

And actually, they all want to walk in, too.

But, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh,

We had 48 things and we had something in the middle of the day before.

But there's nothing at all.

I mean, you have a union contract.

That doesn't mean you're going to be a piece of them all the time.

You know, I'm blocking them.

But he was a...

Locking, and not the air locking, but the kind of the patterns that they have in the aerospace industry.

The air locking is a great way to contract.

Yes.

That goes to Jim.

Do you know if it's taking any part in this, this, this evening?

Not too much.

Not as much as we thought it would help us.

But they ought to take, because they will find it in the environment.

They ought to take part in this.

Locking makes you a judge, doesn't it?

No.

In fact, two of the judges, most of the judges are Dutch, like Donald Duckerson.

Well, there's another, there's another, there's another, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a,

He was calling me up and changing notes on different people.

He looked like, you know, like if they wanted the SSP, they would have looked for this hockey.

I think, uh, I think, uh, one of the things where I come to, uh, regard to the, uh,

the Southeast Asia thing, we've just got to set a course there.

We're going to.

See, after these people were in town last week, if we bug off now, we just aren't going to have a government.

We believe you've got to stand where you stand.

You can't set a date.

The way I see the thing, it's not going to be very long before this war business is

Only going to be an issue to Abby Hoffman and his great-auntie, Brenda Davis, because there's a lot of good people who see what's happening, coming home, and coming home to learn more.

For the end of the year, it will be down to 184,000, no more than that, 950,000, 16,000 for the end of the year.

And we will have made an announcement, which will indicate that we have a lot further down.

Another thing is that things are going...

surprisingly well in Vietnam on the, in terms of their, their pacification and their ability to defend themselves in battle after battle now, although they've taken, they've taken complete responsibility for the, the desert area where we had real troubles just a year and a half, two years ago, where we found

Well, they controlled 90% of the village, and they got practically nothing in there.

And the offender was taking care of that all by himself.

We expect the casualties, which were 16 this year, which was as badly as the others, which was only half or almost a year ago, the same week by week.

We're already in next week.

You should know that the record is a week behind.

But next week, they will drop first.

And then we'll meet out during the summer.

It's that long, too.

But on that, I want you to know that we're very grateful for the fact that you will

you know, stood by us on this thing, and it's going to come out.

It's got to come out.

We're not going to let them do it.

If we don't, then we're all going to have our problems.

Because if you can't handle this situation, the United States is going to look like a tiger to the Russians and the Chinese and everybody else.

I don't think that myself, that these people, last week, this last week, when they tried to stop the government, they don't stop.

They look like they're in for a chance.

Oh, completely.

It's not a matter for everybody who's today.

Even some of the most rapid anti-war people are pretty well disgusted with this thing that happened here.

And anybody who's seen these kids,

Did you see him?

On TV?

I know.

I've seen him run.

I've seen him run down.

I've seen him on TV.

They're the most motley looking crowd.

Well, I had a girl go out and speak to the fire department.

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

And I don't buy the, uh...

I don't want to rip across the rest of the media.

They have a lot of obscene signs.

Oh, yeah.

Just like kids.

And it's a horrible bunch.

That will pass.

I'm sure we can do it.

The other thing I want to talk to you about and talk to you quite directly is this, that the impression is around, and I want to be very candid about this, that you and some of your people feel that I, or at least that the administration,

is antagonistic to the building trades.

Now, let me show you how I can deal with that.

First, to me, the best units, and I don't try to select one of them, but the best units are the most solid units in the building.

Second, as the ladies say, the best units are the best units.

I don't know what's the name of that one.

We are past that now.

And Bill will tell you why he persisted to the last thing.

And we're going to try to avoid it in the future.

The third thing, the third thing that we're trying to support is this.

I don't want you to have the impression that Art Fletcher or Burns or anybody else

who are talking about the apprentice program, this represents my views with regard to the building trades as a solid and necessary and constructive force in our economy.

I would appreciate it if you

that when you have concerns, in other words, if our people are overstepping, you know, like I said, I actually made a speech last week, so I just, Colson told me about it today, and I didn't know about it, having heard about it, but he's doing his job, and I understand that.

But he made a speech where he indicated that we were going to go on to seven or eight states on premise programs, and the rest went on.

Let me just agree.

You let me know if you feel, dear people, that there's, that there's any, that there's actions taken that are, that are detrimental to, to the, you know, to the concept of the apprentice program and the rest.

Because I don't, I do not want, I do not want this, this is said without resenting the politics or anything else.

I'm not going to have, as I told you, the building trades all the time.

I was a couple of weeks ago.

They have stood by us when a hell of a lot of other people that believe the intellectuals in Sutterburg have not the way they stood by us on the big issue.

And frankly, we're going to stand by them on this other issue.

Now, uh, the, uh, the, uh, actually in the administration, you've got people who have different views.

My view is Sutterburg.

I'm very strong on this point.

I have a very great respect for the people that are in those trades.

And I just don't want you to have the feeling that when I talk to you, I talk around one side of my mouth and the other side that we're encouraging other people in the administration to get in the trail.

So I put them right in the water and watch them die.

If our legislature is consigned, I don't think that's the answer.

I don't think the bullet's going to be picked.

I'm just figuring he's got a second angle and he's going to play that angle and that's it.

As far as the apprenticeship program and the training program is concerned, we are conducting the outreach program.

And I say we need to get it.

We'll see how it goes.

But my director is in civil rights .

And everyone wants to look into it.

I'm quite proud of it.

The numbers are going up all the time.

We're training these people.

We're reaching out and training them to bring them in, which is one of the problems, you know.

You go to one of the students and say, well, we're opening the doors for them.

for some electricians and funders, and you don't get to see us in the light.

I mean, they don't know anything.

They don't know anything at all.

I don't know.

I just don't know.

I figure that some people, I don't believe it, and some don't.

So we're reaching out and getting, and this thing is now operating in about 16 major cities, and it's up above 8,000, and we're turning them out as fast as we can.

We will not lower the standards.

We lowered the standards.

We'd be kidding these boys.

If we took a black boy and said, come on, I'm going to teach you how to drill electricity.

We'd be kidding.

He couldn't work.

You know what I mean?

He doesn't have the skills.

So as far as that program is concerned, I'm quite proud of what they've done.

And of course, I don't pay any more attention to Fletcher.

I figure he's going to get his act together.

He's black.

He made a great speech to some nine-year-old contractors back here about three months ago.

And he looked awfully stupid because he said, go ahead.

We were in his position.

The point that I want to make is this.

We're going through a period now, and it's going to pass, but we're not through a period right now.

We've got this employment problem.

It's going to move with the retail sales and other items moving up.

The unemployment always hangs tight, as you know, and it starts to move down.

My point is, coming back, coming to the building trades, this administration,

And Bill, I want you to tell Hodgson, he knows I do, but I want him to know this administration is not going to be a party to anything which

is detrimental to the building trades.

We're not going to do it.

Now, what is the situation of the department?

Well, I don't know how to speak about this, but I know he doesn't feel this way.

He doesn't feel this way?

No, I talked to Jim and Bill this morning about one of the problems on the building trades with this machine getting cut down.

And there's one problem.

that they've got to be handled very carefully.

And these deferred increases, you know what I mean?

They're signed up and some of them are really meticulous.

But this is not the general pattern of it, don't you think?

These so-called loon-type increases, where they get so much sequestration, so much that you end up breaking each other's face.

This is not happening.

This has happened in a few cases.

And these things you've got to be handled with a lot of discretion.

And I don't think you're going to get any opposition from the

from the top level people.

And this, you couldn't meet the solidest citizen in Hunter Walton, or their church, I don't know who he is, but I'll tell you, there was quite a bit of resentment, and I share this on all the grounds, and I'll tell you why.

Yes, he made a speech out in California.

Now, his field of operations is the economy.

He's for sure an economic advisor, and he moved over to the Federal Reserve and so on and so forth.

And, uh, he's the fellow who controls the, uh, the flow of money.

I, uh, I've seen that area because I've not seen Thomas.

I've got a pretty good one.

Anyway, here in January, he goes out to a little college in California called Epizine.

Epizine.

Right.

Epizine.

Somewhere out there.

Anyway, it's, uh, it's the, uh, it's called, it's, it's the, uh, it's the Christian, uh,

And instead of talking about the economy, which is his thing, he started talking about the military.

You know, I mean, and David Davis, and he also said that what we need in the industries that are by far the leading country is post-realization.

I think he would have just as well keep his mouth shut.

I'm going to have lunch with him the week after next night.

I don't want to talk to him.

I don't just fight him.

I've spent a long few years even around here.

But I think at least Chandler's going to be served.

board and he said you know your unemployment

there's a wide range if you start to classify people.

In other words, the blacks, they are higher.

The heads of families, that's way down.

That's 3%.

The teenagers are up.

Well, they're up all the time because as the kids get out of school, each year there's a brand new vast

They're unemployed.

They're meant to get out of school.

In other words, they haven't had time to get a job.

So their rate is always up so high, it's suggestive, that they go out and have a special amendment to the minimum wage law to allow teenagers to work below the existing minimum wage.

And of course, we just think that is completely ridiculous because if the minimum wage is to mean anything,

You're not going to tell the employer you can pay 30 cents less to a teenager when this would mean displacing maybe a lady stone who was not a teenager and who needs a job, you know what I mean?

When you talk about unemployment, you'll never cure all the problems of all these classifications until you have full employment.

You make your problem of unemployment, it will always be worse than the whites because as it grew, they're not as well educated, you know what I mean, just accepting the facts of the white.

And they've been out of the mainstream in the economy for a long time.

But the way to take care of all the unemployment problems is to get the whole country with it.

Let everybody get with it.

So, as I say, after that, I came up with this suggestion, and we thought it was a little bit ridiculous, but anyhow, I haven't much with him a week from Monday now, I don't have to talk to him.

Yeah, he's a good guy, I don't know about that, but he understands his own field.

In other words, the building trade sucks.

You know, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said, he said,

I see a trace.

.

It's going to be reflected, I think, in some way.

My whole trust is that we've got to pay attention to our own domestic economy.

And the Europeans, they talk about the dollar being weak.

Hell, the dollar isn't weak.

You look around here.

The problem in Germany, they've got a much worse inflation than we've got right now.

You know, the Germans, they are going through sort of an emotional crisis because the Germans

have an unholy fear of inflation.

When they think of inflation, they don't think of 5% or 4%.

They think of the time when barrels of fish pots could buy anything.

See, this is what they went through.

Oh, after World War I, when the Confederacy became absolutely fabulous, and this and that.

So when you talk in relation to the Germans, he really, he really was the answer to that.

Of course, there's questions of the Georgians on the interaction problem, all that stuff.

The Japanese now are going through with the British.

and of course the Germans and the French, they follow around.

But I see what Connolly said, he's not worried about it.

We're wishing we could get them on the job.

We're going to go, we're now at this 6% level and we're going to bring it down.

I think we're going to see it reflected, as I pointed out in my speech.

Unemployment hangs high, but we are going to bring it down.

We're going to bring it down through every device that we can.

Part of that, of course, is to continue to make something.

We've got a Lockheed SST.

Keep the flow of money at an adequate level.

That's the policy of the Federal Reserve.

Get construction, keep it moving up.

And then of course, with government contracts starting the first of July, the new budget year, we're going to give it a good stare.

That's about where we are.

Now some of our unions,

are very much concerned about this overseas trade business, especially the school of Stolzoy and Potosky and Bill Pollack and others and our shoe workers.

They are very much concerned about this so-called multinational corporation.

You see, for many years we took a

a very liberal position on trade.

We were internationally minded when a lot of people in the country were not.

We supported all reciprocal trade acts back in 1934.

And we more or less were taking the very broad view that we wanted to trade with everybody in the world.

And even if some things come in that

who undercut us, we could get by.

Now we've got a different situation.

It's not foreign competition.

It's competition from plants owned by Americans on foreign soil.

You know, for the first time, take automobiles.

Countries are as big as the West Coast.

More Japanese automobiles

or Japanese in general, but mostly Japanese automobiles, were sold on the West Coast last month than American automobiles.

Now, you see, we've got to get at this damn thing.

And the situation is, it is for a variety of reasons.

It's an multinational corporation.

What they have to suggest is that we'll be able to...

If you...

Did you get a chance, sir, just to hear Peterson?

No, I didn't.

But I had to go back to my office and came back to you.

Well, it's a completely, it's a completely, it doesn't have, it doesn't go into the way, but it's completely in terms of,

Well, I'll tell you what, I think I'd like to do something else with Hugh's life.

I've made it available.

I've made him available.

He's going to do a bipartisan congress.

He's going to do others.

And I think your board might like to hear it.

What I mean is that it just shows you what is happening in terms of competition.

With the Germans, with the Japanese, and of course, we look at our situation in the future, the Russians and the Chinese, who are not really a problem because they are so efficient.

But what he does, he has a C.O.J.

recent change.

He doesn't slot heights and all that sort of thing.

Take it out.

But it's worth your seeing.

It's really having a great effect.

It's something where I think the trade union movement should take a look at it in terms of...

I'm seeing what our policy should be, because we may have to make some pretty tough decisions in regards to some of this foreign competition.

That's one of the reasons that I didn't join the United States.

We take a very broad view, and all these other countries might be lost in the market.

The Japanese, too.

Oh, the Japanese market.

The Japanese market has ways to lock their arms, too.

So I really feel that I think this piece of presentation is worth it.

Where do your people see it?

Because it's an icon.

It's an open icon, and you can see it.

And you can get it open over and over the building.

You can get everybody to get it.

And you arranged it, sir.

And you go over it.

And half a year is to go over it.

What I urge you to do is discuss it by an hour and a half, an hour and a half presentation, and at least an hour and a half after the question.

to see what is happening.

You take radios, for example.

At the present time, 95% of all the radios used in the United States are not made in the United States.

Well, that's like a little note.

We're good at radios.

Now, we've got to, we, and part of this is, part of this is American companies, frankly, with their multinational things,

and moving the product, and where the labor cost comes.

You see, it's particularly with items where labor costs are less a factor.

And, uh, now that doesn't mean that we're, that there aren't a lot of greats where we're still gonna be able to compete with anybody in the world.

Uh, but, uh, all we have to bring that on is that pick-pockets, I believe that there's some, there's some sites that have it because we are a really bad jump, right?

But one of the reasons why we've got to keep the Eric's, uh, the Stenstein's, the Eric's, things like that, but one of the reasons we've got to keep these is, and that's not, this will compensate a little crazy time.

One, because one of the good things is,

Japanese wage rates are going up, German wage rates are going up, British wage rates are going up.

In other words, that's what takes time.

And they go up and they get to a position where we

are not where our companies do not have the advantage of going abroad, otherwise we have.

But the Peterson-Briggs, I've already mentioned Peterson.

I'd like for you to take over to the office here, to your office when you return, and get to the top economists, your people, anybody you like.

It's worth seeing.

And then we'll, of course, compensate them, too.

All right.

Well, I don't think it's up to you all to decide.

Head back and back next week.

We'll let it come to you.

We'd be glad to.

The Jacks are a real competition cohort.

You can't write them one.

Damn it, they ain't got this camel business in the world like they like Texas.

And what they do, they take in the lacquer, they take in the...

The rear is fine in German cameras, all fine cameras.

They duplicate them, and then they put in their own lens, and I'm not an expert, but my camera brother, who is an expert, says that their lens is better than the lens of the Germans.

Isn't it?

So when they garnish, the finished product is a little better than, not the authentic ore, but the Japanese at the same time, and this is another word,

for this reason and other things as well.

They have very skillful ways where they are keeping us out of their markets and where we do well.

See, we don't mind their making something where they, but by gosh, they can't keep our stuff out of there.

So we're gonna take a harder line in terms of our negotiations with the Japanese and the common market so that they'll say, look here, you're gonna

that the wheel isn't working for you, but you gotta open up to us.

And that's really what the deal is.

But I think we're all in it together now.

I said, another item that I heard about the other day that surprised me, and Ty has been saying more and more on Santa, tires.

I said, it would make quite a thing.

Sure.

Mexico, Mexico.

Oh, man.

Yeah, we have this, but he probably goes, oh, man, we can do it.

We can do it.

The amount of the tithe is now giving me no sense.

That was one thing I looked at you.

You know, I gave you a call the other day because the government workers deserve a great deal of credit and all of that money.

Did you know the percentage of government workers that work is higher than normal?

And when you invited me, that was correct.

I think that is a fact.

Instead of coming to work at 8.30, we're in an office at 7.30.

I think that was funny.

That's right.

I said, I think.

He's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, I, uh, I, uh, I talked to him.

I had lunch the other day with this judge saying to me

The building trades present who started on the stabilization.

These good agitators announced a couple of weeks ago

at this rally, they were going to have a good representation from organized labor.

I looked awfully close and just, nobody.

They got nobody.

You know what happened?

The oil workers, who were a lot of, left me to say, you know, they had voted to participate in this march.

They had participated in several marches, you know.

And Woodcock called a meeting of his executive board and

And I watched every move looking for some representatives of the lake, and I didn't see any.

Let me ask you a question.

I asked you, you know, we were having dinner at the other time.

I remember we had to sit down.

What is the situation?

Is that, are you...

Is that going to work out eventually?

It seems to me that the teamsters really ought to be, you know, they're a strong team and they ought to be...

They can get through this convention on the 2nd of July and elect Franklin Simmons.

Franklin Simmons is as nice a chap as I've ever met.

Oh, he's great.

I haven't met him.

He's a solid guy.

However, he came from Oxford School and he's got a deep sense

Personal.

Personal or that he feels that he can't do anything to help.

Now, there was some idea that Harper would run for office while sitting in jail.

And if he did, if he does, he'd be like...

This is sort of a sentimental thing.

All the way to the presidency.

And I understand that Hoffman himself now has said that this is not the thing to do.

Because it wouldn't help him.

He's still the president.

Yes, he's still the president.

That's right.

And now, yes, if they elect Fitzsimmons,

As a conventional, anyway, make him the acting president, the actual president.

That, of course, means the end of all that crap.

I think the change should be back in the labor movement when they're gone.

The reason that I mention this is that in the movement,

Here you've got the Teamsters, or I won't say many of them.

They're a strong, vigorous, pro-American group.

Oh, yeah.

They're very close to the ball.

They cooperate with us, and we cooperate with them.

We will not have anything to do with Hopper.

Hopper is bad medicine.

Hopper and Hopper have bad connections, and this is the real trouble there.

And the Teamsters have been the backbone of the, with the buildings made, the backbone of the American television movement.

How does it matter to the Teamsters?

I don't know.

Well, I'm looking for a man, nine, seven, or two, yes.

And I get along very fine with Mr. Simmons, who,

Who was the fellow that came in with you?

He was a good, strong man.

What do you think is going to happen?

I think that to talk to them, I've been trying to post them lately.

I think unless Hopper allows it, then I'm sorry.

See, there are certain people in there

who, uh, who would like to throw out his name, and I'll tell you, he didn't like to throw out his name.

He would like to throw out his name, and he wouldn't like to be president.

He knows that it's an election that he has a chance.

So, he'd like to maneuver to, in order to keep the sentence from getting it, to relay a copy of what he's injecting.

Now, I can tell you what will happen if they relay a copy of what is injected.

It will be an immediate, immediate move over the national to amend the tax code to include

These crimes, as crimes advised, you see, what happened was the victim is not listed in the tax policy as a crime advisor to call the union.

You know, the first conviction was jurisprudence.

And what I thought about, and the next one was a metaphor.

I thought, okay, he's a man.

Well, do you want to get into that?

He was a man.

Well, the thing is, he kept hurting all day over the union.

That's not it.

Now, even though the metaphor was,

for which he was convicted using a mask of fraud, or conspiring to use a mask of fraud.

Even though that was connected, the maneuvering was connected with Union pension funds, he was not convicted of taking a leave.

He was convicted of medical money.

And under the way the law is written, that's not one of the grinds.

But I think that I have an idea of how that works.

He realizes this for his own good.

And I say how he had some bad connections.

He came out of this way.

And I think there's early days that he made some connections with totally some bad people.

How much longer does he have to serve?

Well, he actually occurs for Roland under his minimum.

When the parole board met a month or so ago, they could have said to him, all right, you're out on the first of July this year.

But what they said instead was, you come back and see us next June.

Now, I would say that normally, when he comes back next June, I would say, knowing what I do about this,

federal system.

I know something about it.

I sit on the federal business ministry board.

This is one corporation that Teddy and Uncle Sam were popular with.

You know that, don't you?

Oh, okay.

So, but the normal procedure would be that he would be paroled on his next call.

That they would parole him next time when he'd be there.

I will stay as the president always will.

If you look back in that union, and I say the last, certainly in the last 18 months or two, he was even trying to show our approval.

He had to take this time away from us.

We had a fellow in California who,

I've done some things that were not right before in my trade union principles, and I had all the concerns and concerns, just kept trying.

Well, I heard about California.

He was a bit of a thug, and he came back to, he was on your board, right?

He was on your board.

He was head of the Union League.

He died a few years back.

He was a strong man.

Oh, yeah.

He was head of the Union League.

Oh, yeah.

But I'm hopeful that this thing will clear up.

But Mr. President, it already bothers me on one thing.

We will not take the Kingston back.

It probably is the first time.

Isn't it simple?

Yeah.

Well, I see your point.

Because what would happen is a young target of the same corruption.

That's right, that's the problem.

Alfred Simmons, from what I know, and what I didn't know years ago, but from what I know, he's a man of his word, and he's a solid guy, a good solid citizen, nothing wrong with him.

He's a man of his word just yet, and he has this...

old sense of loyalty, I don't know if you'd call that, he would not do anything to harm Hoppe.

When he got a part-time job, he would not do anything to harm Hoppe.

And Hoppe would decide, he wanted to run, I don't think the Senate would run, the Senate would hold the same position he has now.

And you know, this would be tragic if this happened.

Well, I saw a lot of, he went beyond something possible.

President would go to try to hold the line on the first level.

Yeah.

But he's so strong.

I haven't.

I mean, he forced me to report what was going on.

I didn't know in a few weeks what was going to happen.

Yeah.

They got a bulletin.

Was it last week?

Yeah, it was last week.

Do they have a server to say if you're needing to start off?

No.

You don't have anything to start off with?

Well, no, but you're talking about a connection.

Yes.

They changed it.

It has a very close affiliation with the building companies, although they don't own that machine.

They can't own that machine under our rules because they're out of the Federation.

They can't get in the building face down.

So what happens?

They just keep the connections open and they co-operate and that's that for me.

Now, it's interesting to see you.

We had no problem with the individual teams.

The hard part of the problem was how.

The way he handled the money.

Yeah, it was really, well, he didn't know how to handle it in the beginning, but he figured his funds were, he could use them, he could loan to Las Vegas, you know, or something else, you know, because he knew somebody that was interested.

And he would give them a loan, and...

They have, in the last 18, 12, 18 months, I've been watching through the reports, they've been

Well, each month they're more and more careful where the pension money goes and investments are drawn.

Oh, yes, they're right now.

They're not doing what the hospital was doing five, six years ago.

The hospital was just handing this money out as if they were the king sometimes.

It was an all-serve building.

Oh, yes, sir.

Well, but they haven't invited him.

who would look over the applications for loans and pension funds, and they'd get into a meeting, and Hopper would, just because he advised him, he'd say, oh, so and so, he'd get $250,000, and of course, when you get into that sort of business,

There are a lot of, you know, a lot of shoppies in from the outside, you know, who are going to make a business of this.

Sure.

Although it's a lot of dough.

It's a lot of money.

I'm sure.

You know, one thing I was interested in, I had a meeting yesterday with the, uh, with you across from here.

I was really surprised that we have a committee on...

Well, the ranch, you know, the insurance companies, the, the, God knows, the, the savings and loans, the banks, et cetera.

It's all he had, sonny.

And I found it, and they told me that they, that they had that, that morning, the boat was not there, but they had the credit.

And I said, well, how many are in credit?

30 million people.

I had to try and get it with them last night.

I was like, God, that commission is taking quite a group this morning.

I had them in 1996 now.

I said, I can't, that didn't occur.

What is it?

How did those things get so big?

Those are, that's a huge business.

Oh, 13, is that right?

13 people in it.

Fantastic.

Now this, it was long ahead.

It was in operation or something.

I don't know.

set up, well, a lot of them are, a lot of them are, a lot of them are run by people, right?

Yes, but they're not necessarily, I mean, they, anybody can rule, they're set up, they're in time, and vice versa.

You know, on this block, this is a, you know, you get dues, check off, you know, transfers, you get dues, transfer, and they've been very successful.

They've progressed, they're all, they're very aligned.

Uh, the, uh, the credit unions have been, we've been promoting credit unions for years and years ago.

I know there's one thing about this economy, and I'm not an economist, but I like to, you know, pick up the pieces, I'm sure.

There's one thing about this whole situation that has been great, and that's the amount of state into the American people.

Day 30, they start spending.

Oh, boy.

Well, you see, when people got savings, it didn't get a little tough.

They started to tighten up, and instead of taking the money out and spending it, they put a little more money in.

All last year, the savings...

which I think is a very good sign.

There's nothing wrong with the economy.

Maybe if they start going out, the retail sales would be good.

The chain stores and everybody else were really up.

The marches were fair enough, but it made them do it.

But part of it was when Easter is late, when the weather is cold, it has a tremendous depressiveness factor on your apparel in particular.

Nonetheless, they began to move.

And another thing is, I talked to Don Kendall, who Pepsi now has, Wilson.

He told me two things that were quite interesting.

He said they were really very impressed about the sale of their golf equipment.

He said March was the big turnaround.

He said there was an enormous sale of that.

And so when people began to buy in those areas, that began to have a significant impact.

Eight hundred and ninety million dollars.

Who?

One of them.

Who?

Ain't nothing serious, sir.

So I have eight hundred and ninety million dollars and one of them came out.

Serious?

Yes.

That's what they say.

So I have a nine billion, that's a nine billion dollars.

I slept off to Kentucky Dairy's next week, also a resident.

I went all weekend down the winter.

I didn't want to take it.

No, I didn't want to take it all the night.

But I had a feeling it was true.

Monday I had a visit with, the visit was the governor of Kentucky, Frank Louis Johnson.

And he was talking about the three tracks that in Kentucky on that race, every one of them, the betting was up this year.

So he thought this was...

I think it was money.

So I said, no, I think in the week before, I went down and played the Augusta National Conference.

Oh, yeah.

And I stopped, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it.

Where you go with the power tree, where you go across that water, where the crows get a pie.

And how do you put it?

I mean, six foot from the tent, believe it or not.

What did you do about that?

What did you do?

I went to the street.

What did you do?

I went to

And I landed on the fringe of the green over the water and got another tree.

But yeah, it's a box of those, those things that Kendall said, you know, the walls.

But this is the most gorgeous stuff, wasn't it?

Well, of course, you saw, I had the only time I played the Little Sweet Pot, which was the light, was it darkness and blue?

Oh, yes.

No, that was just the same thing.

I was there, I was there about eight years ago in 1963.

I went down to Washingtonburg.

It was cold and everything, but I could see what a beautiful course it was.

But they taught me that in the spring, it's just the most beautiful.

And Cliff enlisted me.

And to be honest, the food journey enlisted me on the committee.

You know, the golf tributes, I just follow them.

So I'll be tapping the boys.

But that's the two things.

I was in college in New York, and I was now a major center in cell phone.

Yeah, Bob was working on it.

Yes, yeah, Bob was working on it.

You know, a fellow that I think deserves a lot of credit here is this fellow that's the police chief in Washington.

He was taken away by his people, but I'm going to hand him over.

But this fellow, I think, really, you know his background?

This fellow, at 14 years of age, is what he is.

At 14 years of age, he quit school.

and joined the Marine Corps.

He served two inches in the Marines.

At 20 years of age, he came back.

I didn't know that.

Well, he came back at 20 years of age.

He was actually six years.

He lied about his age again at 14.

And came back and finished high school in Washington.

He was thinking then as to what he would do.

And he saw an ad in the paper about joining the police force.

He joined the Washington police force.

And he started walking the street.

And he came up the line.

This is Charlie.

This is going to be the only time now.

Television.

And if I pretend to be asking the other day, I mean, you're pestilence, actually.

when they busted these people on Sunday, you know.

Actually, I knew what was going to happen.

That was the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next,

He said, I did, uh, because, uh, it was in my responsibility to include him.

He didn't testify.

And then, and then he said, well, now what about the, uh, the rights of these people, and so forth and so on.

The other courts, and also, he said, how about the American people?

That's right.

How about this?

Well, there's not enough sense.

He said, well, he's already lost.

You know, this is during his administration.

He was right then.

All that.

When they went last night down, he was last on night 10.

He went around all those posts and stuff, the command posts, he walked right up there with me.

He helped, you know, he's a, you know, he has a force here that is on all other people's hands.

And to have him keep that thing in line was a tremendous change.

I just think that everybody, I mean, I agree with him.

I think that all of us, some of you folks could just praise him, just good, you know.

I'm sure you have.

Because basically,

He, we've got to stand up for the good God.

Yes, sir.

I mean, the people.

Yes, sir.

He's a remarkable gentleman, of course.

He's a brilliant gentleman.

He's a Washington, too.

He's a Southwest Washington.

He's a good copy, somebody.

That's right.

I admire him.

I don't know him strictly, but I admire him, you know.

I'll tell you what you should do sometime to get a kick out of him.

He's a very strong-spoken boss.

You should have him over sometime, talk to him.

He's really a great guy.

He's got a lot of courage, Mr. President.

And he's a newspaper lawyer.

Don't you think he's going to damage him?

He looks very shy, too.

Well, he has to respect him, because he's...

I don't know.

He's got the government running.

Yeah, he does.

He said, you know, my job is to keep the city moving, keep the government going, and that's my job.

And I thought they handled the kids, you can't, you will always get the cry of brutality.

I know about that.

I thought they handled them with all, with nobody who smuggled, nobody who tried to hit them, with nobody who would look at people.

Those kids started running around ripping wires out of cars, slashing into cars.

It's all the rest.

But these boys,

the handle of anybody being killed.

And no serious injuries, no.

That's a tremendous achievement.

Yes, it is.

We've got to give them credit.

They were strong and nobody could handle the load.

They were pushing rocks out of the hill and pushing down the road.

Anything, anything but death.

And he disorganized them completely on that Sunday morning.

That was a big planning session at the end.

He just gave them a hard chorus.

They didn't know what to do the next day.

Yeah.

He said he didn't expect it.

Well, let me say that we...

I would like to keep in touch, as I said, with Drew Bell on this building trade thing.

And if you feel something, I want you to let me know.

You know, I can't watch everything, but some of these statements and so forth that are made, I may not be aware about that.

But we want to have good relations with the... We want to have good relations with the...

particularly what the solid movement's like to build their trades, who really hit a backbone in terms of standing up for their country.

And oh yes, the one thing about it that I'll never forget standing in the parade in New York,

But Fierro Lugatti and the Bill and Trace boys were coming by.

It was a little later parade.

Of course, he was very popular.

High foot, you know.

And I said to him, I said, you need to help me with my ribbing, you know, the kicking and all this.

And you know what he said?

It was very interesting.

He said, well, he said, I know them boys.

He said, if I was out on the front line in some war and there's boys, I want to live there.

Which is so true.

You know what I mean?

And one thing, John, I know you know, you must know this.

They're wrecking this TV thing.

Oh, they just can't.

No, they're starting to force to.

They have to force to.

I understand that.

They're new presidents, you know.

They're having to just finally give up.

I think the little Franks are going to be all right.

They're like...

And I thought, Mr. President, the meeting with the President was very long.

I was talking to someone afterwards.

I was, as we were talking in front of a meeting this morning, when Jim and I went to Miami, where I was in the suspension, and they were speaking, and we thought we had overtime at work, and really, it's just what he said, but that's a little strong of the issues, and I'm really trying to put it out there.

And that's very important, because what I've been trying to do now is to see if we don't have to get back on the channel.

And I think the main thing is that you, you and Jim, and you can...

You've got to, if it comes to this, Mike, I want to know about it myself, you know what I mean?

Yes.

So that we don't get, so it doesn't come to me with a paper that I haven't had a chance to think to meet with these folks.

All right.

Because... And there's no way I'm going to run this Peterson thing.

Yes, sir.

I'll get it.

Yeah, we got it.

We've got a place in... Oh, yeah, put it in your apartment.

He's got a terrific... Oh, we've got it right in the... Well, that's what he means.

It's not... That's pretty slow.

I'm here.

Yeah, but I have the... Oh, I... All the experts, they all really enjoy it.

Get my old friend back.

Uh... What's it called?

The OPA...

Uh...

Tom Harris.

Yeah, yeah.

You wouldn't be dead if I didn't know what you were talking about.

You'd have a free, court-martialed tale.

Well, you know Tom, you know.

You know Tom.

Well, he was with, was it Henson's?

No, it wasn't Henson's.

But as I say, don't let him out of bounds.

He's just a pet.

Thank you, thank you.