Conversation 501-029

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The Democrats deserted on the others, and they'd be promising to go on this one, Steve.

I see.

Some usually, it's a good tactic.

You really can't.

He just wants more.

Got that sponge right away.

Today it is.

Is it the announcement yet that made about his opponent?

No, he didn't.

I guess we'll recap the event here when we get it.

You gotta get Henry and Saylor.

As soon as he finds him, he's on the phone trying to get a vote.

John, sir, tell him what we're doing.

You see pitch runs over there, get it done.

It's almost pathological hatred.

Both ways.

Either one of them is rational about the other.

And I was able to believe anything good about the other one apparently.

I'm sure Henry believes that Rogers should be trusted, shouldn't be told anything.

That's not true.

Rogers believes that Henry is deliberately going to try to take the call to credit and so forth, which he would.

Unless I told him, as I have told him.

And that's another of the main reasons, in this case, Rogers is a subsidiary of the main reason is that he is going to go for the Russians, right?

And here, you're going to find Vinnie and Scalding and Ziggler and Vinnie and Vinnie and Ziggler on Russian offense.

Everybody's going to take his credit and let him take the credit.

Worry about it.

Throughout that, I think the way he would have used the Rogers thing was good.

It's good for him to hear.

And I think he got a chance to think a little bit about what his options are, too.

Well, I didn't figure it back in until I got off the boat.

Yeah, because I wasn't aware of where the boat was.

Oh.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Oh, they got it all screwed up.

The boat?

You mean the boat?

Oh, the boat.

I didn't get Cooper yet.

He was on the floor.

Uh, the, uh...

I would recommend, Mr. President, one qualification staying in because the thing may blow up and we shouldn't have a presidential statement that says there's no problem left at all.

That's Senator Cooper now.

.

I don't have any questions to ask anyone.

They won't know what, they can't figure it out.

We're going to go out at 11 o'clock.

Yes, sir.

We won't go out until 11 o'clock.

People, tell the people in the wire service, people.

And at 11.

At 11, yes, sir.

And maybe we'll go out at 12.

About 12.

12 in the room.

It's important, sir, that he be there to let us and give them enough time to get back in their suits.

If we have any at all, we haven't determined this was bad.

About four were to that group who were on P.M. deadlines.

I'm sorry, I forgot.

Well, I understand that.

Oh, something got hollowed over.

I couldn't put a star on it.

Well, things like that didn't work.

I just knew the wire, they'd take off the wire.

I mean, we're disappointed in the figures.

But if it's going, anything that downgrades at all what's going to happen on the TVs or the wires, I wouldn't have that money.

I personally limit it to three TVs and two wires, five.

And then it'll be about 5.12.

We're not moving to two TVs.

It's conceivable, Mr. President, that afterwards in the

experts on it they'll go from the studio to the man here you need two men then in that case to act informally that's why i know that it's my tendency always it's banana because the pressures don't do it keep it small keep it small remembering that our goal is to get those that matter we care about everybody but we got to concentrate on those that matter and do a better job of that that's rather than trying to do three or four hundred all rather try

in that bad way, you know what I mean?

I know you study so well.

It'll all be in a big brief.

We have two people each on the TV side who are informed it will increase the amount of time that they spend on analysis after work in an informed way.

I don't see it as a fact as far as

What do you feel?

The main thing in Henry's briefing of this group particularly has distinguished from the others that it's got to be, you've just got to put up about three things that we want to get across and don't go beyond them.

Don't go into that long analysis of all the whole goddamn thing.

I can't do that when he meets the people in the afternoon.

But even there, the one thing that's extremely dangerous here is if he discusses at all how it happened.

We've gone over that.

That must be kept on at all costs.

It is not only because of the internal problems.

That is not the message.

What is it?

screw it up completely with the Russians.

Yes, Mr. President.

When Henry has got to be very sure that he never drops a word indicating how it happened, that must not come out of here in any way.

It must not come out in the background.

It must not come out in this or that.

Everybody's got to call and they've got to say, you know, the president initiated this, I'm going to say that, which I did in January.

I initiated an approach or something like that.

That's all right.

You take it very seriously, but how many times a day can a man won't know?

I said as often as it's necessary.

I don't understand that problem.

So he said, well, I told him that you look a lot better.

Well, I said you look awfully good if you stick with us very soon.

I can't tell you any more.

He's weeping all over me.

He said, I voted with you five times today.

Well, of course.

What really matters is when he should vote with us.

Of course.

Help these guys.

They have 90% voting records.

Vote against them.

When the vote was 83 to 13, we didn't need him.

Yeah, that's a big help.

Let's come down to the points that we brought up.

Let's just run by what you think you ought to.

What do you think are the main points you want to get across in your reading?

In my dream.

Yeah, yeah.

You'd be glad if the Levin father received it.

The person who got the leaders, you know.

The leader to get across the...

I'm not going to do much more than to say that it's virtually what the announcement said.

Right.

I hope we can keep one caveating statement in the announcement.

I saw that, yeah.

Because... Yeah, I'll say they're intensive.

I'm going to put it intensive rather than arduous there.

Yeah, intensive.

Intensive discussions.

I'll work something out there.

I'll work on it.

It'll be approximately like this.

Now, go ahead.

I'd just like to see how it's going to feel.

The nature of the drag show is that up to now, there has been negotiations.

What I would suggest is this, if I could.

You go on.

I can sit down with the president at 12 o'clock.

He's trying to do an analysis of everything.

uh, that, uh, the announcement will simultaneously be made in this time.

I would just start, BAM, out of that.

Don't start at the history in that time.

Whack, you'll get their attention.

And then, you go on.

Okay.

I'll point out that the nature of the breakthrough is the fact that up to now the negotiations have been stalemated.

Oh, oh, is that okay?

I suggest this too.

All that should be put out in the press in writing should be the agreed statement.

The rest should not be put out in writing.

Let them take and see.

It's all the Russians who are going to put out in writing.

Exactly.

Because I might decide to strike something at the last or add in something that is slightly different.

So I don't want to read the whole statement.

Fair enough, I agree.

Now, go ahead.

Up to now, the negotiations have been stalemated because the Soviets have

been prepared to talk only about defensive weapons.

And we have insisted that there must be a comprehensive agreement, including offensive weapons.

And as you will know, as the President has pointed out in several press conferences, we have insisted that.

I get that again.

Now, on the basis of discussions involving the highest levels, we have broken...

Should we say involving, involving at the highest level, or leaders at the highest level, or... At the highest level.

Involving the highest level.

I wonder if that's comprehensible.

We're deliberately making it vague except to make it clear that you have been involved, Mr. President.

I know, I know.

Henry and I were just talking about this thing.

You want to put in the highest level.

That's the only way we can get in the fact that it's not here.

That's right.

As a result of discussions at the highest level.

Involving.

If you say at the highest levels, it sounds as if you had contacted them all.

Which, no.

Which is true, but it's...

I see.

It resolves in involving... Involving what?

The highest levels of both governments.

Involving.

That's good.

The highest levels of both governments.

There has been... That's good.

There has been a break in this deadline.

This announcement makes clear that there will be simultaneous negotiations on offensive and defensive limitations.

Now, at this moment, we can say this has to do with the procedure of the negotiations.

On the other hand, there has already been a lot of substantive work done which could not be brought to a conclusion because we have not settled the

whether it should be simultaneous or consecutive.

You could there give a little pat on the back to the people who saw it.

That's right.

And therefore, this is not just a procedural decision, but it is something that in our judgment, with goodwill on both sides, is going to speed up the whole pace of negotiations.

Yes.

Why don't you say no?

Go ahead.

That's all I would say initially.

Then I'll answer questions.

Then you can go on to questions.

Do you think you're going to agree with this year's?

I'll say we don't want to put ourselves into any artificial deadline, but we are, we think that there's some chance.

Well, the statement indicates we're, it doesn't say this year, does it?

No.

We're concentrating, we're concentrating on getting it as soon as possible.

We're hopeful.

We're hopeful that we can get it done this year, and I'll point out to them what should be said in the,

In your world report in which we said if there's a political decision, we think an agreement can be reached fairly rapidly.

Gentlemen, I think a political decision has been reached.

You know, as a matter of fact, if they'll read over all my press conferences I have assisted by over and over again.

We have already assembled 14 of your statements, Mr. President, which we're going to give to that bank.

I think, Henry, it's very good to refer back to the press conferences and so forth, that we've had a totally consistent attitude on this.

And your memory is the last one.

I said, I am not discouraged by what is going on.

Of course, nobody can know, nobody, how much it leads to that.

That's it.

The difficulty we had here that everybody must have in mind is that

And we say with our relations with the Soviets, we must not disclose how it happened.

That's really the problem.

How far did you go?

Mr. President, Scali has said through several of my briefings, I can suggest potential events without using quotes.

I know, but what I meant is, how do we...

Well, for example, if they have, let's, what I mean, I can ask you this, if I'm in the water, how do I achieve the thing?

Those jackets, as I may ask of you.

Well, they say, was the president involved?

The answer, yes.

Was Kosykin involved?

I will not discuss the Soviet side, but obviously when the president is involved, you can assume that the highest level there had to be involved.

Where?

The question, where were these confidential exchanges?

We do not go into details, if it's okay.

That's very good.

That's a good point.

Go ahead.

What other contemplatives?

What are you interested in?

I have a whole list.

No, that's good.

I don't have the list here.

I just want to start to get a feel.

What do you think are the most important?

The other point that Mr. Kissinger wanted to emphasize, I'm sure, was that how this...

potentially would enhance negotiations for mutual and balance of reduction of forces.

You see, one point I was going to make was, you remember, gentlemen, that the President has said... Do you want to get this in the first briefing or only with the intelligence?

Well... And with all of them, Mr. President.

I'd say, you remember, in his first press conference, I won't use the word linkage, but I'll say the President has consistently taken the position that success and progress in one negotiation is bound to improve prospects in other negotiations.

This is particularly true when the fields are so related, as they are with mutual force reductions.

And so, both of which are in the arms control field, so if we can make progress in that field, we think that this will create a good basis.

What does that do now in the region?

I was thinking a little bit about that.

That's your problem there.

Does that shake the hell out of them?

But the agreement, if you don't make it sound as if a condominium is starting between the Soviets and us, that's why you have to be very low-key in your... What I meant is on mutual force reductions.

On mutual force reductions, no.

That doesn't sound like a condominium because what you're talking about is the two sides.

The two sides.

On mutual force reductions, I would expect to make very clear that we first discussed it with the NATO allies and that this is, of course, a joint agreement.

negotiations involving many countries.

Right.

This will be one of the subjects at the NATO meeting which Secretary Rogers will, one for which he will leave next.

One of the important points he will bring out, too, Mr. President, is that this is among the alternatives and plans that were studied here.

So this is not a new, hastily put-together package, but one that was carefully studied in this long meeting that you had at the National Security Council.

Oh, sure.

I think you said that the U.S. position, that our position over there, we can't make it appear that we've done our thing.

How do you handle that?

What mutual force adjustment?

Yeah.

So we've had this matter under intensive review for months, and the positions that crystallized in these exchanges with the Soviets were positions that had been previously studied, which is true, within the National Security Council verification.

What did they ask?

Who started it?

You.

Well, the way I would put it, no, what I would say is that this has been an extended exchange.

The initial, the initial, the president made an initial approach in January.

After that, No.

Well, a little bit of irritation won't be too bad.

But I would say in a protracted negotiation like this,

there are some people who take an initiative in one area and others who take an initiative in other areas.

So when the whole thing is done, it's very difficult to say who took an initiative on what.

I mentioned that to Duprinen when I saw him, and he thought that was all right.

Why don't you say that the president decided in January that it was necessary to take an initiative to break the deadlock?

What did he do?

that we indicated with.

We said we'd put some ideas to the show.

He submitted some ideas to the other side.

Where did he do it that's confidential?

That's confidential.

But Mr. Kissinger is going to give adequate credit to the other side for their cooperation.

Good.

That's the thing.

I will lean over backwards.

Yeah.

This is not a come about except by a mutual.

Mutual.

It was...

My first view is a cooperation throughout this government and also mutual insofar as our relations with the other government.

I was thinking humorously here, Mr. President, about does this take care of the problem of the Chinese?

What was the fun answer that we had?

We'll deal with them.

We'll write other methods.

Do you recall part of your justification of the law for ABM is that we needed it because of the potential use of possible Chinese threats?

No, you could say they'll take care of the Chinese, they'll be a threat by other men.

So we have a story to tell.

That was the total original justification for it.

It was the area defense.

Then finally we came off of it some.

Still pretty good.

We really ought to keep it for that.

It could take care of it.

Any time, for sure.

Well, it could take over a hundred hours.

I think you'll be pleased to know that when I spoke to the Red Cross, that I hadn't put off the time that we might be able to go to China to their next convention, which was 1981.

Yes, sir, 1981.

I said over 1980, or before that.

Right.

I think one of the impressions that people left of the Van Raiders is particularly after the vote today and some other things that have occurred is the impression to be very easily put in the minds of the

We're going to report this.

There's a lot of activity going down here by those who don't know what's going on and kind of, you know, doing the new shit.

And up here, there's great progress being made, significant things developing.

And that, you know, people will then begin to discredit what's going down.

For example, the Senate used its time screwing around with the NACA troop reduction.

And I think this can overlap as far as you can.

See, this could even relate to the whole Vietnam thing.

How many times can a man vote no in one day?

Well, the point that I think...

I won't, I just will duck that question.

I will just say, I'm not trying to discuss the channels that were used, because this was confidential.

I think the more pretentious and mysterious we can make it look,

As long as we can establish...

Your main point is to get in the fact that it was a presidential initiative.

And that you can be sure of.

It was in January under different initiatives.

And we have a good hand to...

They say, isn't it like...

If Reagan doesn't mind your saying that, we don't know.

I've gone...

I went over some of this with him.

Good.

And I think it's very important that you know that we're going to say that.

Well, you know, they may ask, isn't this what happened?

But first of all, we should not mention the word freeze as the leaders want it.

Well, if they ask me, isn't this what Humphrey recommended, I will say, first gentleman, we have never looked at foreign policy as a partisan issue.

Anything that helps, that makes progress in this area helps the whole country.

And therefore, I'll first make the bipartisan comment and say, but as a matter of fact, though we don't care about getting monopoly, the President made this initiative

early in January, and Senator Humphrey spoke about it towards the end of February.

And this is no derogation of... And I could also say, well, now, if you insult the Senate, inform the Senate about this, you said, gentlemen, didn't know the president was really more interested in having negotiations succeed.

Mr. Woodley, bring out the whole thing that you know beforehand.

Mr. President, they would have accused you of wanting to sabotage the talks if you had started by saying you were pulling off your August 4th proposal, which they had accepted of a Washington-Moscow system back to safeguard, and at the same time asked for a freeze from them.

They would have said, don't you think, John?

Yes.

Trying to sabotage the talk.

That you really didn't want it.

This was a whole meaningless exercise.

When I proposed safeguard alone to Smith, not even mentioning the other idea, he said he'd be embarrassed to put this to Semyonov.

It wouldn't be fair.

So we had to tell him to drop it into a dinner conversation.

Let me ask you tomorrow, if I can, just one last thing.

The...

And you will go on in all activism, right?

Right.

And you're going to do what?

I'll have Smith with me all the time.

Excellent.

I think it's a good idea.

I'll dominate the briefing anyway, but I can throw a few questions to him.

But it commits him, and it shows that we are all together.

Right.

Then you go on.

Were you able to work in those meetings?

The three that I would suggest, I would suggest that Patrick Buckley, if you could get him down, it would be very important to have Buckley.

I can handle him by telephone.

All right.

Well, you then get Bill Patrick, Dick Wilson, and Bill what?

Those three are pretty good fighters in the conservative ranks.

Bill will understand.

So will all three of us, and I have that.

Bill and Dick Wilson go easy.

They'll all understand it.

There you go.

Those are the only conservative problems that you need to have.

And I, incidentally, there would be no objection, Henry, to save your time to have them with others.

You see what I mean?

You can mix them up.

You don't have to have the service because basically this is the case.

Well, Mr. President, Tom Moore will help us.

Tom Moore said you saved the military again because he was afraid that we were going to have an ABM only agreement.

Jerry Smith said you saved the world.

So we're in good faith.

We've talked to Bill.

Bill understands.

Bill Rogers.

He's with all.

Everybody's going to say, isn't it Rogers for your information?

I guess we're not going to tell him.

For your information, I just know that he knew that I had undertaken the initiative.

Right.

He knew.

He had to know.

Others did not.

But we're not going to say that.

I'm saying that the one person who knew that you had the problem was my wife.

Because the other members of the NSC did not.

Secretary of State has to know.

He didn't know about what went on.

I understand.

And how it all came out.

In fact, nobody did.

The point is, they understand.

So, that's just something for our own internal situation, we should all realize.

We're pretty well protected, Mr. President, because the bureaucracy doesn't know what happened.

And we won't talk, so... That's right.

And it's not up to them to say they didn't know.

And they can't say what happened.

They ask the question that comes up when they know, of course, everybody was informed.

They needed to be informed.

Period.

That's what I'd say.

I don't think it will occur to anyone to raise the question unless some crybaby complains about it.

I don't think anyone would...

But in a case like this, a crybaby racist, before he does it, he's going to have to think very carefully of what posture he puts himself in on a situation like this, don't you think, John?

So I'm very doubtful...

I don't see much of that.

Now Smith will say that he, when he had to take the thought, Smith was good, said he never knew anything about it, decided it's the better part of valid to say he had a general knowledge of private exchanges, and because I did tell him last year about one where they offered an ATM order,

Get a good night's sleep.

Good night, Mr. President.

You'll need it.

The tales of Kissinger's notoriety on strings are still pounding on California's president.

All right.

Send it.

You know what?

I find more and more than Kissinger's life proposal.

It's a lot of talk.

And he loves it.

Can I tell you, let me tell you the funniest story of them all.

I watched the Revolver story.

It's a little bit, it's a lot of color.

I don't think he said it was very, very good.

So I want to hear this story.

He's no half-off.

He's a big, bad guy.

But a half-off.

As a matter of fact, he was a big out.

Because half of my story, when he came back from there, when he came down to

I want to go to, like, what are we going to do about the Chinese?

This story of your town, Chicago, you know, they have this big gangster funeral, you know, right on that catwalk.

Hang the reeds on and so forth.

You know, the rest of the big deal.

A young reporter just went by and saw one of them.

and all these hoods came up to the casting.

The most beautiful girl you've ever seen.

The young.

The big owl.

I think it's a matter of logistics, but...

I guess it's up to Tito.

Oh, that's all right.

But they are still fans of yours.

My God.

First of all, if you ran into any of these countries, would you worry?

They're going to say, oh, they don't know that.

They are doing great.

They really were.

That's all right.

Frank should sit or don't.

Well, whoever it is.

It's not a distraction.

We'd like to have him come here.

And we're happy that you don't want to swing him into some sort of fall.

I might leave this down and you might want to have him at that time.

Or, of course, he may have another favorite group.

In any event, let us see if they can't come.

All in all, I think for you, one of your, out of your general life, your trip, how was it?

It was great.

I learned a lot.

I mean, you enjoyed it a lot.

Not enjoyed it.

I bet you why.

It's an age choice.

They helped with learning a lot.

Did you have any fun?

Yeah, being with them, I'm still having fun.

Yeah.

But we were bright enough so we could never let our wives have more than 45 minutes of shopping in any major town.

It's terrible.

It's just an unforgivable experience of a lifetime.

Yeah.

We've never seen these.

We've never been there.

Neither one of them.

And it could have been more interesting from their standpoint and from our standpoint.

What struck them more, you know, doing the precinct thing was fine, and it got pressed and all that, but it's where they would sit down with the embassy wives and aunties.

The ambassador's wife had never had their full lives together before.

You know, they are so rigid in that goddamn State Department, about pecking order and all that.

And when we talk to the, I'll be damned, we talk to staff,

In each case, the ambassador represents them.

We talk about the domestic program.

I understood what you said about that.

And then what do you think about it?

Well, they need to be American.

Do they want to know those statements?

Are they interested?

You want to tell me?

Because they can't explain it to other people.

They're asked all the time about what's going on in the United States by the foreigners.

Everybody cares far about the U.S. House.

What did you do about getting the domestic program started?

They were very interested.

They just didn't know it.

They didn't explain it to me.

and welfare and I do half and then we go to Q&A and we go for an hour.

And that's all.

That's all they know about our interviews.

There really is.

There's no way they can be experts on everything, though, in the United States, too.

I think the ratings were helpful.

I'm sure they were.

Let me summarize two or three things that kind of interest us.

Bob indicated that Jeff's comments, with respect for you personally, inspired me.

I get the feeling that there's a lot more respect for us as a country, however, in diplomatic and foreign states than there is in economics.

Yeah, I noticed that, and I asked you to talk to Connolly about that.

You really speak with so many voices economically in this day and age.

That's exactly the other one.

I'd like you to talk also to Connolly and to Schultz.

Connolly will see this right here.

I should have mentioned Schultz.

It's true, because George is a tight-knit copy of him.

People of economics.

I feel that in the sense of our Republicans that we do have many different questions.

Our governance goes off and on.

I know we've got tons of people that have a strong enough voice in the Treasury to dominate the others.

And the McCracken's people go in all three different directions.

And of course, before he stands and speaks, he'll say, it's a pretty damn confusing situation.

It isn't.

I don't know how you really handle those things.

They talk about us as, you know, it's your word about exporting our inflation.

I think that Milton Friedman put it very well.

He summed up the title of his columnist feature called The Farm Crisis.

It makes it a problem to get out of that German's ass.

Willie Brown, his socialist program, spent wildly when they got one half of 1% of their employment, and now 6% inflation.

What the hell's going on?

That's his own price.

He is our man.

Isn't he?

He is.

He is the man who always presses.

He and Robert were the two that pressed Don.

Lopez Bravo.

Yes, sir.

And what was Bravo looking at?

I mean, he's controlling his...

He's so, you know, so obviously ambitious.

He's enlightening the evil sky.

From what little I know about him, he's so hot to me.

But when I'm in that Spanish situation, somebody will chop him up.

He's moving to get... Prime Minister.

Prime Minister of the next six, eight, nine months.

And he's so hot to try, he...

Yep.

He's a people guy.

That's it.

You know, I think the President would like to use me before this is recorded.

Before I go over to sit down.

They want to play a role in the Mediterranean.

Aren't you convinced that they're going to Spain within 10 years?

Spain will be back among the great nations.

And they have the youngest cavalry.

He gets the youngest cavalry.

Didn't you get the feeling of dynamism and power and strength?

That's a great question.

Conversely, even a lot of people were worried.

I walked out of there and I thought, my lord, they've got... Did you ever visit one of those Iron Curtain countries before?

No.

Of course, it's only a half Iron Curtain country, but that's enough.

But it worried me about holding together.

They both hold together.

These 21 constitutional limits for de-centralization, they've got the succession, they've got the political, military, and symbolic glue that Tito provides going.

And they've got these allegations of outside subversion in...

fostering problems between the republics, the Serbs, and the Rohingya.

And, uh, that's it.

You know, they let it be the Rohingyas and the Kerouacs.

It may split up again, but it's like, what are all those things?

I assume it's like, it's the Boston, you know, there's all these things.

There's no war going on.

But what I think is so important, and the Kerouacs were divided into the Catholic and the Serbs, you know.

It's like, really?

Nevertheless, they are bound to be at each other's throats because they hate each other with a passion for each other's peace.

Did you go to review the movie?

Yes.

Well, you did go to review it.

Yes, of course.

The only thing I had to change was the difference between that and it was like a booming economy.

It was like it was going east and west, really.

You know, you probably shot down Romania at five o'clock.

I mean, straight through, there's no car.

And I liked it over there.

It was just...

They're warm, nice, other people.

Well, they're in.

You just turn the place upside down.

Boy, it's great to have you.

But the important thing about it, one of the good things, and I'll stop for a little bit, is the fact that we can say,

that our presence was one of the things you asked us to do as a follow-up for the things that you had talked about.

And we can relay it back.

We can follow up specific things that we will.

And somebody's just going to be sending a guy one of those computers because they need a guy to help put it in a hospital someplace.

And we don't want to get seduced by these guys who come and spend all this money.

What do you think parents do to wives?

Is every woman, are they like all of them?

They like them the best of all of these?

Why do you like Rome?

I think Carol liked Vienna.

Yeah.

She just liked, uh, marvelous things.

Rome and London.

And Carol's desperate for beauty, but not people.

She liked all the French and horrible people.

She liked people visually.

The people in Rome and London.

Rome or war.

War.

The truth of our research.

The call was terrific.

He endorsed family assistance.

We can't say that.

How did you like him?

The nice guy.

How did he seem physically?

Very elegant.

Strong.

He was fortunate to see you.

Well, I mean, I don't mean fortunate.

He would see you.

The poor devil, he just can't see everybody.

What was the real deal?

Your wife, go ahead.

He asked her.

At the end.

Did he give you the... That must have been a trophy or what?

Did they get black dresses?

There's plenty of other people who go ahead and refuse to do that.

Every time I saw a girl, I made my wife buy her a black dress, you know, because it's the way they do it.

And did you get a picture taken?

Yes, sir.

Big photographer, big battle.

Yeah.

Got a shot in there.

So you don't have to take so far anymore.

Never a battle, apparently.

He had never made a thing like that.

I noticed that, that you said that it was very subtle.

What?

They realized it was going to be over.

The little concerned said, he says, how do you get the last people out?

What's the concern?

He said, that you want to do this in a parade?

With 20, 30, 40,000 troops over there, that's what he said.

Oh, you mean a detachment for us?

And South Vietnam, but also for you.

So how do you avoid a very embarrassing situation?

We just got a hell of a big army.

China was a good reaction on China, a good reaction on the Middle East.

Oh, but the other guy, they are not pro-Israeli.

They're not, yeah, but they're certainly not for a belligerent position.

I'd say that there's a very pronounced swing in public against Israel.

They think they're being, you can take it as an aggregate, but they think they're being too entrenched.

And I think there's a real health organization bouncing on that.

Okay, second side, I'm Henry, saying I want to treat the health aspects of the air raid problem.

Hume's in Austria was anxious to have me convey the desire to have the question of east-west trade.

He really feels the task is out there, feels really in the best interest of the United States, and wondered how Congress was, and that kind of thing.

He was very interested in opening up these places, right?

The moment that Vietnam is well on down, perhaps even by the end of this year, and they can't say we're supplying the people that are shooting our bullets,

that we could go.

So I think he would be very hopeful on that.

And we're doing a few things right now as far as we can within the existing law.

But the law is pretty damn stringent, you know?

I mean, we .

We nail it tight year after year.

The other thing I want to say, though, is Boyd Brandt is bitterly criticized for pushing

They're afraid of him, aren't they?

Yeah.

And they're afraid of Brad, too.

And they say, you know, your president isn't going to get stuck.

He's not moving that fast.

He's Chinese.

You're moving properly with respect to China.

I don't like it.

Brad, they like the deliberation.

That's great.

A lot of people were very, very worried about Brad.

The one who's closest to him.

He didn't get it farther away.

Thank you, you have heart people.

You both, you went through it.

This is an honor, sir.

Yeah, that's always an honor, sir.

You're a forward of all friends.

Rush, Rush is a sweet, nice guy.

He's a boy.

Smart as hell.

God, he's quick.

He's very smart, very... Did you know he's a fellow?

He's a fine human being.

Yeah, he is a fellow.

He's got an enormously capable job for non-negotiations.

on a secret basis, in addition to the public basis.

And you can imagine he's one of the best corporate lawyers in America.

He's the head of Carbine, and now he's over there negotiating.

He just loves it.

Does he?

You can tell he's the best.

He enjoys his job.

Did you go to Hanover's residence to see Tommy?

Is there a real...

We saw the world's greatest bullfighter and they ended up taking pictures of him with a Nixon tie clasp.

Ha!

Which quarter is this?

See, he had the most popular name in Europe.

And he had a picture with Bobby.

Yeah, that's good.

That's great.

And it was written in the article.

But of course, he's a hot property over here.

He's the biggest.

As a single taxpayer in construction, when you get $25,000, we'll buy you this $200,000.

$25,000?

A fight?

Committed?

Yes, it is.

We can see the fight.

We fought in this war.

We did not fight in polls.

Oh, God.

We had more fun.

One down, one down.

We had a lot of good times.

He's a magnetic person now.

I mean, if he walked down the street in Washington, there'd be 50 women following him.

33.

He's got more broad sanctuary in that place, and he's got this 30,000-acre ranch where he sees bulls.

He looked down on a moorish calf.

And he thinks I'm arrogant.

No!

I'm single.

4 p.m. in the middle of the street, 5,000 friends.

The girl followed him.

Oh, she's smart.

He's just magnetic.

Joyce and Carol could speak French, fucking English.

Very good.

Yeah.

We gave you a present from you.

A little cup with a pigeon sheet.

Don got some feathers.

I didn't get it.

Tom bought the salt candy, so we did it.

Yeah.

We offered to go out.

We didn't bump into any Chinese.

We were able to pass along the kind of intent that he suggested about the U.S. and the U.S. and the U.S. and the U.S. and the U.S.

And you know, the most disturbing thing about you is that I had heard about the military.

Well, who are you going to be able to work on that?

I expected that.

What surprised me was about the non-military.

The young people are young people running around, and some of them must be making fools of themselves.

Well, it's that, and it's crazy.

If a congressional committee gets into this thing, it's going to blast the draft extension of the volunteer army, because the hard fact matter is a lot of these kids, when they go in, are not users, 50% of them.

Have you had something?

What's the matter?

Oh, John, I met him.

You met him?

Talk to him individually, you know.

What happens to him when he comes through the line and some person gets up and gives a joke?

They walk into barracks and they're all using this stuff and... Are you... Are you staying to do?

Are you with her, aren't you?

Yeah, what's the matter, kid?

Yeah.

Yeah, John, if that story...

It's not like having a drink.

It's like smoking a cigarette.

If that story gets out, can you imagine what's going to happen if he's such a...

It's just a term to... What the hell can you do about it?

I think we're just going to have to shake up our own people.

And we just need to swap some heads and follow up there.

I've seen him.

We want to be very careful.

John and I were breakfast with Hoss at 2.30.

He's worried as hell about this.

And he leveled.

We're right on the line.

He's the chairman.

How's that frame?

What was that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see.

Is that not a trade?

No, no.

Not across the nation?

No.

Pretty impressive government.

And, uh... We had good reactions from these governments on the amendments in the United Nations that the United States is offering.

Yes, they were very positive and they were interested.

Some of them were more concerned about their problems than before.

But when we told them that you considered the problem of international drug trafficking

a significant aspect of U.S. foreign policy that you looked at it that way, even if you don't have that problem, think of it in terms of the fact that the United States is sufficiently concerned about the problem in Germany.

They were very interested in that.

They hadn't thought of it from that standpoint, that it is enough of a problem in the United States that it would be a foreign policy matter as opposed to something where each country did their own thing.

And they liked that, they liked the fact that it was a matter for greater international cooperation and bilateral cooperation.

So the reaction was good.

Paul was very concerned about it.

Struggled by it.

Yeah, worried about it.

I don't know.

Well, he says he's trying to get his reason to come in harder on the problem.

He also said he thanked him for his...

He said, I'd like to do more on that.

He said, I don't know what I can do.

He said, the president has anything else in mind?

I don't think there is anything more.

I think at this time, there may be a little more.

Well, I think there's probably not.

But I think there is.

It's just that no more propaganda is

You know, he's made a strong statement.

He's reviewed the fact that there are 8,000 captains in North Vietnam, and he's terribly concerned about that.

That's one of the reasons they had Mexico move in.

Goosey about such a statement.

And what was your take on King Barack?

King Barack was hung up because you don't have a longer term.

He bent my ear about the fact that the President of the United States ought to have a longer term for quite a while.

How did you find him?

What kind of a guy?

I knew him.

I met him many years ago in 1957.

He put on a triple-A show.

You may know he had some of the people pour out.

Great.

Just really did it all right.

He was coming here for a visit, you know, and knocked it off.

And from his standpoint, something right made him do.

Yeah, yeah.

I had a rocket that did dances and went where did you see it?

Yeah, I went to a couple of prisons and there's a lot of politicians.

But the rockets were great as well.

And I do remember it.

Well, they've got a tough loser in the chair here, I'll tell you.

It's the Secret Service guy.

Is that right?

Oh, yeah.

He is such a classic.

He does a good job.

Yeah.

I'll tell you the prank.

Here's the vice president, Gerardo Blanco, in space.

Yeah.

Oh, he's smart, too.

He is very smart.

It's too bad that he's so old.

Yeah.

You see, he is in the prank week, but did you notice, though, how fast his mind worked and how quick he talked?

I was terribly impressed with him.

He said, fine, man.

Fine, man.

But he will not be chosen as prime minister, I don't think.

I think it would be the other problem, though, as prime.

But you liked him, didn't you?

I did.

Yeah, he really was chosen as prime.

Just so crazy useful.

He did.

We got a very uneven impression of the different embassies and the different ambassadors.

Yeah, about which was which.

Some...

Which was the best?

Some... Russia was very good.

And I like the color of his lobby.

He used us.

He's a little guy.

He has a big smile.

He's alright.

He's got a good heart.

I remember him very well.

I knew he was good.

He ran us around everybody and milked the thing for every great word.

Now, go ahead about the others.

He's coming home.

Well, he said,

He's going to do it.

The letter says that.

I don't know why.

I don't want the letter.

You know, I don't think Bob will make it.

I think Bob is as loud as a lion in a basket, but I think he doesn't realize he's so damn hard.

I don't think he can make it.

I just don't know why.

He's just...

Vince, this is his last hurrah.

If he's ever going to get it, he's got to look for governor now.

Well, good.

I'll be a nation.

He said, I know the president will have to stay out of it at the same time.

What do you say to that?

Mr. Romaine seemed like a very decent man.

He was energetic and had a good day.

He's kind of a funny man here.

He moves around the country.

I don't know.

We didn't get a chance to really observe him.

He was an Austrian.

Jack Martin was not very friendly to us.

I don't know.

Martin?

Yeah, he's kind of a stiff.

He's mad.

Plus, he is.

Basically, Martin is very cocky.

Sure, he's not.

He wasn't.

You mean he wasn't really a... Maybe it's his manner.

He started as a State Department swishy.

He is a swishy, actually.

No, but I checked it out.

On the other hand, maybe it just went too cold after dinner.

He brought all of our staff, all of our staff, three people, including the State Department.

And with his...

The old man proceeds to pontificate to us and all these people for about an hour and a half about his, I don't know.

Have you never made a mistake?

I've never made a mistake.

The president asked me to keep his illegal going comments, and I've never failed anything yet.

And by God, that's what I'm going to do.

I mean, the president's got a lot of ideas, and he wanted them for an hour and a half.

What a funny performance, in my opinion.

I'm worried this guy is so cop-shy about himself that he can't make a mistake because then he can be blind.

And he just abuses.

I mean, give that impression, if you will, to, you know, the runoff for the roaches.

Just express your concern about it.

In fact, that's all my answer to do it.

If I put it over there, I don't want to get the entry back to the family.

Rick said, in the International Organization for Ambassador to Geneva, uses very effectively.

That's a good job.

He wants to run, I think, for Congress.

Yeah.

Against, let's just say, ask them about the Congress.

He's got the money.

Of course, John Moore is...

If I got more, it's that I'm always loving him.

He's great.

Mrs. Watson is terrific.

Her husband's out of town.

She's nice.

She's just fine.

She really is.

I'm trying to think who she is.

She's nice.

They do eat their children in the back.

Yes.

And then she told us how you'd line them up and talk to them all on your way out.

We were still riding back and out.

She was very sweet.

That was what we called it.

They needed a residence very badly there.

Did you go look at it?

Well, they needed it so badly.

That residence is nice.

Did you have lunch in there?

Yes, we had dinner.

Wasn't it a wonderful chef?

I remember the chef.

I don't remember the most places.

The chef had been there 20 years ago.

I didn't know where my people were.

used it needfully.

I looked down the wall and he was very good.

And we didn't use this at all.

He was out of town when we arrived.

When we came back, there was literally no, nothing.

Funny, I suppose probably it's how they perceived the trip or how they perceived us or something.

But he purchased it from a child.

I mean, he was an alien, that's our testimony.

The Britannia.

At that time, we cleared it the first time.

When he was in the restaurant, he would not take us down to introduce us, as we may know, to a pitch, to his own troops.

To his own staff.

Which was really a mistake.

Then we had all of a sudden a fight.

Mr. Sanders said, I didn't give a walker ever.

I don't know what he thought he did.

I thought I did.

I'm curious.

He wasn't threatening.

He said he was okay.

He was very defensive.

He said...

He said, he said, he says, I'd like you to know, we have the best staff.

And we tried ourselves on excellence.

And John says, excellence at what?

We were trying, I didn't say it like that.

I said, one lady was the most efficient staff.

She was the second most efficient staff in the world.

And I thought that impressed me.

In fact, I thought they had too damn many people.

They were kind of everywhere.

They were dead month to month.

They never had a good staff.

It was too big for one thing.

Sure.

I was the French staff.

Excellent.

Two of them would go out to school with me in Princeton.

They'd watch and shut it up.

You see, that fellow, Schreiber, was there.

That place is a shame.

It's a shame.

But Holmes and Steigman and Cully, they were all good, didn't you know?

Right.

They did their homework.

Holmes and Julie's small stuff.

I remember them too.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, it was in my class.

It was Liza Powers.

One of the great ambassadors of all time.

And that's his son.

Remember when they tried to drop him once about a... Shit.

A shit.

In turn of that deal.

I was in school with that.

Liza Powers.

I remember how mad he was.

I talked to him in his office.

He was a shit man.

I mean, Liza Powers.

He was a shit man.

The French were giving a five-hour speech on the arts at Draymond when they ran out of time there.

He did.

That's why I got some hard trouble then.

So was Buster Dolphins talking about it.

Thanks for having to do that.

Well, this is good to know, then, because I thought it was oil or chicken, was it?

It was a...

I think it was oil, chef, or shit.

Oilers or shenanigans.

Traders.

Hands of tankers.

Yeah.

Tankers.

Children.

Well, everybody got into that business.

I don't know if Casey was in it, but our case was in this case.

But this sounds like hell of a thing.

Is he like a forester to me?

He's been in and out of Princeton.

Out of the Marines.

Bringing Princeton Marines for the service.

How are you impressed with the challenge of a second-in-career forester in this country?

Good.

In Paris?

Yes, sir.

Other places?

No.

What was the matter with him?

Don't worry about all these experts here.

political officers who don't know beans about politics.

We've got a State Department, two people who've never run, never worked in a campaign, they came out, so they backed up these United States schools in the State Department.

They're reporting to United States of America political matters in their country.

Well, if you have only one in an embassy, you have to sign a letter, some kind of certificate.

And they don't.

Hell, we've got Ambassador Corey down there, or surrounded, showing elections.

You know, so much about politics is Bob knows it with one finger.

He's always been on the wrong side.

I'm sure he is.

I can't talk about it.

But, yeah, I bet you I know what that is.

But that is a problem, isn't it?

They don't really know.

And I'll tell you, the breakfasts are, those are the extra that go on at home.

Yeah.

The do bug, you say do no.

I say, yeah.

They feel it.

And they feel like they've got to be back here because this is where they think it's going to be happening.

And Apple's going to come back and run for Congress.

For example.

Yeah.

Others do.

Jesus, and these other, these folks off-couch, like that guy who's our, I guess we're talking about.

We're talking about.

We're talking about the right way.

Where?

In the woods.

Oh, I can tell you.

What was his name?

Brian Bob.

He's just a nice young guy.

About 40 years old.

He couldn't find his head in the bullpen.

You know.

They have a pretty good following in Smoky Pike.

He was the head of the university.

He was the first ranked guy in the conservative government.

You saw him on the bottle?

On the bottle.

He's a good man.

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Did you go to the, did you go to, did you go to Parliament?

It's something to see, isn't it?

Yeah, and that's the, the Irish is a great little hall too.

You know, they had a little yak as well.

You know, it's hard to realize that Ireland has half the population today than 100 years ago.

Isn't that true?

Yes, it is.

There used to be five million, and then all the people came right out of Ireland.

I tell you that.

What a horrible time that must have been.

I don't know what we learned.

You know, it's not that you've taken this trip.

I urge you both because you're so young.

I want to miss an opportunity to go home.

But I would not go back to Europe for that much time.

You know, I'm a person of age.

What can we do with this now?

Obviously, you know, the speech material won't quit.

Didn't I tell you you had good speech?

How did you use that yet again?

I used it all the time.

Why don't many people love it in Illinois?

But you notice the moment that you start talking about, oh, I was just a jerk for care, how they sit on the edge, don't they sit on the edge of their chairs?

It's the anecdote.

It's some story.

I've got something here that I don't know if you want to see or not, but I thought if you did, you should.

It's a fascinating letter that Bob Hill gave us.

and I've got to return it, but it's from Franco to Lynn Johnson.

On August 20th, 1965, on the Vietnam War.

And the kind of interesting thing is, I mean, if you want it, please just drag it.

Drag it a second.

You didn't help me.

Ambassador Hill had a couple of thoughts on the Hampshire, Mr. President.

He thought maybe that tourism is so important in Hampshire.

You and Mr. Nixon.

Not just in Hampshire, but go to Vermont or Maine and do it before the campaign.

That would be the only kind of thing you should do up there that you shouldn't, except to have Julie and David dedicate Mount Eisenhower.

What is that?

In September.

And he... What is Mount Eisenhower?

Apparently they've named, renamed some mountains.

Some big mountains.

Mount Eisenhower.

I think so, but if they could get any of the things that are for Eisenhower's.

No, he didn't even touch it.

He didn't.

He didn't even do it.

One other thing, he said that he has a pile of bad stuff about Muskie and his extracurricular activities that he got from the Attorney General of Maine, some guy named James.

That's all.

What kind of question is that?

He should go over the thing.

What then?

That took him to the business room.

The women heard him in the business room.

Well, the women might have known him.

That's when they heard Teddy.

What does he say?

He says, stop, leave the Democratic candidates.

That's something.

Did you notice the yellow pen?

It must be a personality.

I'm having a panic attack.

What happened is, I think it's Teddy and his movement apprehended the left.

That's the left of the Democratic Party.

Well, it's not a majority of the country.

It's a majority of the Democratic Party.

That's what I think is the case, at least in the North.

And in California, you know, that's the case.

That's why the Democrats always nominate left and then the right.

I mean, well, let me put it this way.

They'll nominate the left over a centrist union right-wing.

They can't elect him, usually, except when they hear him.

But if you murder him, you can't even talk or anything else.

There are other problems.

My guess is that Eddie is playing that for all it's worth, and plus he is moving that direction some, but it's not quite believable.

And Hubert, of course, is battling it off.

Oh, for your Kennedy to leave.

I can't.

It looks like Kennedy has to leave.

Where do you know that?

I think Kennedy, for a reason, at the moment at least, and the problem with his appearance, I think Kennedy would win the California primary.

Do you agree with that?

Oh, you don't agree?

I do agree.

Over a hundred.

What do you guess?

I think Kennedy has more, he has less.

The other thing is that Kennedy, Kennedy, frankly, is a Catholic.

So is Muskie, but Kennedy's a real Catholic.

And he married a Catholic, which Muskie's not.

So, the point is, Kennedy will get Illinois, he'll get Ohio, he'll get what is left of New York, he'll get Pennsylvania.

Actually, we'll have Massachusetts.

Out of that, who the hell is going to beat Kennedy?

It'll also be Wisconsin.

They'll win that easy.

And Hampshire, you probably won't enter the primary.

But California, he might wait and enter the California primary.

He'll beat the hell out of them there.

If he does that, how long is he going to be in that?

What country are you at?

Humphrey will then have, basically, he'll be here.

Wilbur Mills, Wilbur had a lot of television.

He'll do well in Tennessee, South.

One of these new states at which one, yeah.

And Wilbur at South.

And Jackson will be in there in a few states.

This is so important.

They will all be in, probably, behind Hubert and Teddy.

Okay.

Teddy is, I think so.

I don't think they can make it.

I'm going to give it a try.

We'll see.

at the moment.

Pierre Salinger I had dinner with over there.

I'm not going to fluke.

I was resting his son for dinner.

And Pierre Salinger said he thought, number one, that you were just going to be one whale a lot harder to beat than anyone.

Did he?

Secondly, he and I talked about this movement of Kennedy people to the government.

Are they doing that?

Mankiewicz, of all the people who want to have more sense, Mankiewicz is going to work full-time for MacGuffin.

Well, that's stupid, Master.

I couldn't believe it.

MacGuffin never has said that.

Well, Mankiewicz is not stupid.

No, he isn't.

And that's where the antenna goes off.

And I say, hmm, is it a deal with me?

Well, I get shocked.

I swear to God, I think so.

MacGuffin is shocked.

I think so.

And I think that's why Mankiewicz is going on.

and McGovern would be out there pulling all the others to the left.

Interesting.

What does some of you think Kennedy's thinking about doing?

He didn't say, he said, Muskie, come here, Kennedy.

But he said Kennedy doesn't really want it.

Oh, want it if it's tough.

Now, he'd be a damn fool to do it because he's still got his time.

His best year is 76.

So why should he do, why should he go now and finish him off?

What's your guess, Bob?

I just don't think he's going to end up, there's some way he's going to make that decision to have a run at it.

He just doesn't want to pay the price right now.

That's why I can't pay the price in one way.

and go out and do everything that you have to do to fight for a nomination.

I don't care how well you're running for president.

That, of course, is true.

The other thing, too, is this.

In 76, the girl will be forgotten.

Time is on its time.

The girl will be remembered.

Take Rockefeller.

Rockefeller can run now.

People have forgotten about him.

There's something about him, of course, but it'll be all forgotten.

But, of course, the girl is harder.

But Rockefeller, there's no problem.

He had no problem at all.

Today, just as he had it, didn't have it in his last gubernatorial.

What do you think?

Kennedy's best time is 76.

By reviving him, I'd say that's what he wants to do.

But, on the other hand, it looks like it's a clean shot at you.

Clean shot?

You don't pass that up to him any time.

I mean, he'll never pass up the shot.

If he... Percy's got the feel that he...

not going to get too ripped up in his own party.

And second, he's got to deal with the ties he's running against the administration very strongly, because incompetent presidents do have enormous advantages.

I mean, while it is said that they are seldom re-elected, they usually are.

We have to remember this.

I mean, when you go back to, let's say, this country, town, why didn't he win?

Because the Republican Party split.

Otherwise, he wouldn't want to walk with the Republicans.

I mean, looking back, Wilson, of course, even as a Democrat, won.

He should have won a second time because he was a person who was in the war and other things.

You had Hoover.

Depression beat him.

Johnson.

The war beat him.

Sure did.

But when you come down to it and look at the one current president, generally, it's really the Depression.

in economics.

In Johnson's case, it was a war.

A war between men and person.

Frankly, it was all a lack of guns.

If Johnson won, run, and fought, he might have won.

I think so.

I don't know as much as we think you can do this at all, but you've got to remember, compare Johnson to Hubert.

Johnson's a man.

Now, he really is.

Huber is a nice fellow in Charlotte and all that, and so is anybody that goes to the dam.

And Johnson is a nutcracker.

He's a son of a bitch.

He's been tough.

I've always been tough.

But you know what happened to Johnson?

He probably sat in his room one day and just couldn't take it anymore.

He was tough.

But you know what?

because they talk about our problems, but I do travel around the country, and poor Johnson can never go anyplace.

He couldn't take criticism.

He couldn't stand seeing those free television sets he had on all day long.

What would I do if I were watching television, what they say about me?

I'd die.

Oh, but they're not as bad about me as they were about him.

But they're bad enough.

But you see, anybody that becomes obsessed with that can never stand it.

Well, if that's my view, I don't know, but Carl Johnson is going down there tomorrow.

Is there any choice we can give?

That might be a value.

I was talking to Henry about this.

About what?

In terms of, say, the naval thing.

Actually, it's better to have our great friends as board members, but I just

We just wondered if you had any reaction as to what we ought to be saying, either with the background or with the press.

Well, I think it's very helpful for you both to say that, and I think that we've understood that together.

We've talked with Bill Rogers, and you have not.

We did briefly, and we will again.

Because, and incidentally, one thing you should point out, because he has done a hell of a job, is that he's highly admired the way he's done it, and he is, right?

And I think that should be mentioned.

As a matter of fact, we're going to have a cabinet meeting tomorrow, and I think that you might say that we're not that much in the crowd, one of the two of you, how much is not traveling around.

How do you regard it?

Yep, it is an issue, Mr. Carter.

And that's so far.

I'm going to get a full line over to the Capitol and be given a State Department piece of paper by one of those girls saying Sadat was a weak, wishy, washy, non-entity, and no one had ever met him.

And believe, when Valiant and I met, when Valiant and I walked out of that meeting and said, holy America, we better figure out how to get back straight.

Well, Rogers is very much, and he's right, Bill's right on the button.

Sadat, did you tell Bill that?

Yes, sir.

He was, the comments he made in the camera meeting last week were excellent.

Yes, sir.

Good job.

You weren't in the room, you left.

No, I didn't.

That's right.

Well, now, the other thing I would say, and I'm sorry, I think it's important for you to say one of those.

The United States is doing pretty well in many parts of the world.

We're highly regarded.

Our policies are highly regarded.

They think they're doing the necessary and right in Vietnam.

But apart from that, that our leadership, our leadership needs to be the Soviet, our leadership needs to be the Chinese, our leadership toward them is...

But it's a fact that this is indefinite.

And I can quickly point out that there's been an enormous change in regard to the United States now than what there was.

In other words, we only hear about those parts of the world where we're in trouble.

We should point out that in Europe, that is one place where we look a hell of a lot better than we used to.

Johnson couldn't go here.

He didn't go.

I've been to every capital in Europe now except for the Norwegian places.

our choices.

I think that, I think that, very well, just exactly that.

We forget how much, and another thing, another thing I think you both should point out, on the Nagleton and the rest, let's, we should work together, we should point out, and let's, let's, let's look at the question here.

A few fellows have just said, you've all studied history, some of us have lived through it, but can you stop to think that in this century, twice,

That small, little piece of real estate, if you look at it from the national level, it is so tiny.

Crisis caused 10 new deaths in wars.

And when you stop to think that, or, I mean, you can take it all you want, with NATO, and not with European Japan, which started with the Democratic West, with Republicans, of course, Republican Congress.

that we have had peace for the last 25 years, and we're going to have it for the next 25 years.

Now, this is an enormous achievement.

You don't throw that away, that system and that process, lightly.

Now, we've got to realize, we've got to realize we haven't had it.

Nobody's even talking about war or air or data.

Let me tell you something.

The main thing that would happen in the event that you move over in the wrong way in the NATO thing, the main thing that would happen,

The Germans.

The French fear the Germans.

The Dutch and the Belgians are petrified by the Germans.

And frankly, in the event that NATO evaporated or disintegrated or became weak, and the Germans have no home in the West, and there they are, the strong, strong, vital, vigorous people, frustrated and suspended there in the heart of Europe.

Yes.

And they cannot afford to have the Western also

You just can't let this happen.

You see, NATO is the home for the Germans.

Even if he was, even if he abided the arguments, well, the danger is as great as it was.

The Germans ought to do more.

The German problem is still there.

We've got to do, we've got to.

got to work in concert to see that Germany doesn't get off the track.

Did you feel that way when that happened?

Did you feel the attention of Germany when you were there?

Nobody can go to Germany without getting attention, right?

Yes, sir.

And they're fabulous people.

Up top and able and all that work, and it's great compared to the other people in Europe who, God, you know, hold their candles right.

Hell, they'll outwork the British and the Franks and the Italians, except for the Americans, right?

You know, they're incisive, and they work with them.

Yeah, I had to work with them and the Turks and everybody else.

It must be something.

Well, I tell you the one thing, I really hope you follow him.

You can't follow him.

If you could follow through on that book front.

Oh, God, I don't know what to do.

Linkletter was a deceit against me.

Gee, he's a great guy.

He's got a great, great speech that he gives, you know.

And he talks to the kids very little.

You know, he didn't say all the things.

He said, well, look, everything is wrong.

The nation is bad.

You know, he argued, he reasons, and so forth and so on.

And I asked him if he'd done any military.

He said, here, come home.

I wondered if he could take a tour over there.

You know, link letter with me.

Or would he have said that?

No, in my name, I tour in those dams.

That's right.

That's the difference between alcohol and the grass and so forth.

Word of it is the problem of construction.

That's half the problem.

I know that you said that there was not enough entertainment.

I think that Jesus Christ, I thought we were doing everything in that respect.

They had $125 for a little recreational fun.

They didn't even get gloves and balls and bats or great things.

So what did they do to the lot?

Screw the babes.

Oh, that's right.

They can't even...

I think having their wives for the junior, the enlisted men in the junior officers, if they had their wives, there would have been some sense of community.

They'd fight the single guys over.

I think there would be some fabric because they are poor to death.

And I think the standpoint of the military, I mean, having their wives, I know it costs a bill, but it sure makes life more pleasant over there.

I sent you a memo on that special trade representative matter, and I told Bob I think it'd be wrong.

I think Pete ought to do it.

I think Pete ought to do both of them.

But we have another one, and I think it's better.

Peter, Bob.

Bob, what was it?

Okay, I'll be at your service, I'll be right back.