Nixon, Rogers & Butterfield on US-Soviet Relations and US-China Relations

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And then we'll buy some more stuff.

Then get that.

And I think we've got some chance in Berlin, of course.

They've got to have a deal with Germany.

The Germans, the Russians need a deal.

The Russians need a deal.

So you've got that.

And if we continue to make a little progress on China, not very much.

Can't do much there.

But you never know the Chinese, they react.

I'm going to say at the election speech that we hope that some of their scientists will come over here.

Excellent.

Excellent, because we've opened up person to person.

And there are great Chinese scientists.

The place where they are, they have traditionally been in the forefront of their civilization and knew science when we were still eating each other.

You know, Western Europe was.

Hell, they had tremendous science.

So did Egypt.

The Egyptians had great doctors 4,000 years ago.

You know, I've never seen the pyramids before, but isn't that a magnificent sight?

You know, imagine those levels, carrying those huge things up to the top of it.

The thing that I was, that you should, the next time you go, go down to the Valley of the Dream Zone and see that.

Huge temples and things, I felt that.

Oh, it's where they're buried, you know.

I know.

And, well, that's a great civilization.

They have great people.

I...

And I think that somebody was telling me that our office there, not much of a person, he's going to last long.

He's not very impressive.

This is a hell of a guy.

At this case, he said he's a hell of a man.

This guy may be one of our saviors.

That's enough for science today.

You gotta get a haircut today if I know that.

They look pretty good.

Yeah.

Bob Holmes, that one kid with hair, Bob Van Yen, once killed a kid.

You know what I mean?

The hair is like we used to do.

We do funny things.

But this son of a bitch is doing it in order to pander to those people.

Because that works.

Exactly.

I think he's bad.

I've got to get ahead of him.

I'm not going to make a safe visit to that goddamn place.

After his, what he said, you know what I mean?

Nothing in it for us to go to be kicked around with.

I agree.

I agree with you.

Terrible.

He doesn't have to say such a thing.

Yeah, good night, man.

That's good.

Interesting.

The Russians are low-key, but that shows they've got an internal problem.

Yeah, they're low-key very much so on the second day.

You thought they'd come by China?

It could move faster.

It is a matter of stop.

I think that the, without getting into the,

which I don't think they care that much about.

But I think that at high levels.

And I have to play it so carefully with the Soviet until this thing works out.

But my view is with the Chinese, we should be very open on that question.

Very open, but get the Soviet thing worked out first.

It's something that we should keep very much now.

One thing I've done that you should know, I mean, Morris Andrews wants to take a commercial mission.

Dick Kennedy suggested he could drop over from there and so forth in his direction.

And I said, no, none of you even approach it and don't suggest that we're not going to do anything like that.

Any visits at that thing must be in the highest level.

If it had to be you or me or both, it might come.

It might come.

I just have a hunch here.

I have a feeling that there's something going on there.

I think this Russian thing has a hell of a lot more to do with China than anything else.

They're scared.

No doubt about it.

I think we want to be careful.

That's why I'm going to mention today my speech.

I'm not appearing now.

We've turned them off.

I think we've got to sort it down and play it a little bit so we don't get too eager.

But I think the fact that we've made it... Well, you noticed the other day, Harvey got a little play on it.

I spoke to the Red Cross.

I told a little story about me and his teacher.

We said we were all brothers in our hearts.

And I said, you will never speak in 1981.

I had hope.

Certainly by then, and I hope long before then, we will have a world in which people will be able to go to Russia, to any nation in the world, and discover the truth that we are all brothers.

Sorry, but I don't agree with Tommy Thompson's view that you've got to be awfully careful not to say anything.

Christ, did you notice the task made in the...

all the problems in the world, attack the U.S. imperialists, and so they don't give a damn about it.

And I don't think we should say anything that's rough on them or attack them, but I don't think we should back away from China.

I think we should say what we want.

So I don't know.

It's going to keep them right on China.

The thing to do is to do it.

We don't say anything about it.

I don't know.

It's just a good relationship, both.

And I'm trying to not damn Russians up the wall, which is exactly what we want to do.

You see, that's why this...

They are totally, it's totally cold turkey.

Look, they came back, they had this, this,

The very thing that we, they, and in essence, that we signed yesterday, we offered in January, I sent a message directly to the top guys.

All right, Mr. President.

Now, why the hell do they wait until right after the party congress and they come back?

And that's after a lot of us have drawn.

Well, now they'll, they're,

They're doing it for coal, whether it's not visible.

We had the party.

We had Laos.

We ordered it.

We are.

We came off with a Chinese initiative.

Said, oh, a lot of nice things about China and all the rest of it.

And then, bam, here they come with this.

Now, what does that show you?

It shows you only that...

that these people are going to insult their interests and they don't give a damn about that.

That's right.

They might insult their interests.

You know, they're concerned about the Middle East.

Oh, we get all kinds of reports back in the discussion.

I, uh, did you read, uh, did you read what Lance, uh, Lance Boland said they were, they were saying that Rogers is hitting too much credit?

Yeah, yeah.

That's great.

That's just great.

And, and on the Middle East, I think I want you to

I want you to hang around.

Just get out there and talk about it.

The way to use me on it is this.

First of all, I have no concern, whatever, about being tough on the Jews from a political standpoint.

The only thing that is, if I may be needed at some time to do the squeezing,

You could take a more advanced position than I could, but as far as I'm concerned, I am totally agreed.

As a matter of fact, if I were in your position, I'd be doing more.

You should have seen her debate.

I'm glad you talked up to him.

They're in for a tough deal now because, and I think they let the cat out of the bag.

Probably they thought that Boland and all these pacifists, these Quakers, you know, would be delighted to hear that they're waiting for the next election to get the Democrats in.

And they didn't know he'd come running right to me.

That's right.

Because Boland's a Republican.

He is.

I know.

Didn't you think he wrote two good memorandums?

Very, very good.

That guy's standing there, doesn't have to do a, you know, just precise.

He's very good.

Rabin, you know, is on our side.

He's getting canned.

They're going to send him back.

He's leaving.

Yeah.

Well.

Rabin and, uh.

He's smart.

Diane.

God, I wish we could get rid of her.

Diane was there.

We could win.

You know, Sadat has great respect for him.

Sadat, yes.

Sadat has great respect for him.

Diane.

The military guy is the best one.

Yeah.

Tell us how you got him in, tell us, sir.

Another thing on your side, something that I think could be insightful.

You know, the young people today, you know,

Nixon, Rogers & Butterfield on US-Soviet Relations and US-China Relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 21, 1971

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