Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 503-009
Date: Friday, May 21, 1971 at 11:29 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Rogers, William P.; Butterfield, Alexander P.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/503-009

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] And then we'll buy some more stuff.
[0:09] Then get that.
[0:11] And I think we've got some chance in Berlin, of course.
[0:13] They've got to have a deal with Germany.
[0:15] The Germans, the Russians need a deal.
[0:16] The Russians need a deal.
[0:17] So you've got that.
[0:17] And if we continue to make a little progress on China, not very much.
[0:21] Can't do much there.
[0:21] But you never know the Chinese, they react.
[0:25] I'm going to say at the election speech that we hope that some of their scientists will come over here.
[0:31] Excellent.
[0:34] Excellent, because we've opened up person to person.
[0:37] And there are great Chinese scientists.
[0:40] The place where they are, they have traditionally been in the forefront of their civilization and knew science when we were still eating each other.
[0:51] You know, Western Europe was.
[0:53] Hell, they had tremendous science.
[0:55] So did Egypt.
[0:55] The Egyptians had great doctors 4,000 years ago.
[0:58] You know, I've never seen the pyramids before, but isn't that a magnificent sight?
[1:03] You know, imagine those levels, carrying those huge things up to the top of it.
[1:10] The thing that I was, that you should, the next time you go, go down to the Valley of the Dream Zone and see that.
[1:20] Huge temples and things, I felt that.
[1:22] Oh, it's where they're buried, you know.
[1:22] I know.
[1:23] And, well, that's a great civilization.
[1:24] They have great people.
[1:25] I...
[1:25] And I think that somebody was telling me that our office there, not much of a person, he's going to last long.
[1:44] He's not very impressive.
[1:44] This is a hell of a guy.
[1:45] At this case, he said he's a hell of a man.
[1:46] This guy may be one of our saviors.
[1:47] That's enough for science today.
[2:15] You gotta get a haircut today if I know that.
[2:46] They look pretty good.
[2:54] Yeah.
[2:56] Bob Holmes, that one kid with hair, Bob Van Yen, once killed a kid.
[3:06] You know what I mean?
[3:09] The hair is like we used to do.
[3:11] We do funny things.
[3:12] But this son of a bitch is doing it in order to pander to those people.
[3:14] Because that works.
[3:14] Exactly.
[3:15] I think he's bad.
[3:17] I've got to get ahead of him.
[3:18] I'm not going to make a safe visit to that goddamn place.
[3:20] After his, what he said, you know what I mean?
[3:24] Nothing in it for us to go to be kicked around with.
[3:26] I agree.
[3:27] I agree with you.
[3:39] Terrible.
[3:40] He doesn't have to say such a thing.
[3:50] Yeah, good night, man.
[3:54] That's good.
[3:55] Interesting.
[3:59] The Russians are low-key, but that shows they've got an internal problem.
[4:10] Yeah, they're low-key very much so on the second day.
[4:19] You thought they'd come by China?
[4:20] It could move faster.
[4:20] It is a matter of stop.
[4:21] I think that the, without getting into the,
[4:24] which I don't think they care that much about.
[4:38] But I think that at high levels.
[4:41] And I have to play it so carefully with the Soviet until this thing works out.
[4:46] But my view is with the Chinese, we should be very open on that question.
[4:50] Very open, but get the Soviet thing worked out first.
[4:56] It's something that we should keep very much now.
[5:16] One thing I've done that you should know, I mean, Morris Andrews wants to take a commercial mission.
[5:19] Dick Kennedy suggested he could drop over from there and so forth in his direction.
[5:21] And I said, no, none of you even approach it and don't suggest that we're not going to do anything like that.
[5:24] Any visits at that thing must be in the highest level.
[5:34] If it had to be you or me or both, it might come.
[5:38] It might come.
[5:40] I just have a hunch here.
[5:42] I have a feeling that there's something going on there.
[5:44] I think this Russian thing has a hell of a lot more to do with China than anything else.
[5:47] They're scared.
[5:47] No doubt about it.
[5:48] I think we want to be careful.
[5:50] That's why I'm going to mention today my speech.
[5:51] I'm not appearing now.
[5:52] We've turned them off.
[5:53] I think we've got to sort it down and play it a little bit so we don't get too eager.
[5:57] But I think the fact that we've made it... Well, you noticed the other day, Harvey got a little play on it.
[6:07] I spoke to the Red Cross.
[6:09] I told a little story about me and his teacher.
[6:13] We said we were all brothers in our hearts.
[6:15] And I said, you will never speak in 1981.
[6:17] I had hope.
[6:17] Certainly by then, and I hope long before then, we will have a world in which people will be able to go to Russia, to any nation in the world, and discover the truth that we are all brothers.
[6:33] Sorry, but I don't agree with Tommy Thompson's view that you've got to be awfully careful not to say anything.
[6:38] Christ, did you notice the task made in the...
[6:44] all the problems in the world, attack the U.S. imperialists, and so they don't give a damn about it.
[6:48] And I don't think we should say anything that's rough on them or attack them, but I don't think we should back away from China.
[6:55] I think we should say what we want.
[6:58] So I don't know.
[7:01] It's going to keep them right on China.
[7:03] The thing to do is to do it.
[7:04] We don't say anything about it.
[7:05] I don't know.
[7:06] It's just a good relationship, both.
[7:09] And I'm trying to not damn Russians up the wall, which is exactly what we want to do.
[7:13] You see, that's why this...
[7:14] They are totally, it's totally cold turkey.
[7:28] Look, they came back, they had this, this,
[7:36] The very thing that we, they, and in essence, that we signed yesterday, we offered in January, I sent a message directly to the top guys.
[7:53] All right, Mr. President.
[7:54] Now, why the hell do they wait until right after the party congress and they come back?
[7:58] And that's after a lot of us have drawn.
[7:59] Well, now they'll, they're,
[8:01] They're doing it for coal, whether it's not visible.
[8:06] We had the party.
[8:07] We had Laos.
[8:10] We ordered it.
[8:11] We are.
[8:11] We came off with a Chinese initiative.
[8:13] Said, oh, a lot of nice things about China and all the rest of it.
[8:15] And then, bam, here they come with this.
[8:16] Now, what does that show you?
[8:16] It shows you only that...
[8:17] that these people are going to insult their interests and they don't give a damn about that.
[8:23] That's right.
[8:23] They might insult their interests.
[8:24] You know, they're concerned about the Middle East.
[8:27] Oh, we get all kinds of reports back in the discussion.
[8:30] I, uh, did you read, uh, did you read what Lance, uh, Lance Boland said they were, they were saying that Rogers is hitting too much credit?
[8:37] Yeah, yeah.
[8:37] That's great.
[8:38] That's just great.
[8:41] And, and on the Middle East, I think I want you to
[8:44] I want you to hang around.
[8:51] Just get out there and talk about it.
[8:56] The way to use me on it is this.
[8:58] First of all, I have no concern, whatever, about being tough on the Jews from a political standpoint.
[9:08] The only thing that is, if I may be needed at some time to do the squeezing,
[9:14] You could take a more advanced position than I could, but as far as I'm concerned, I am totally agreed.
[9:22] As a matter of fact, if I were in your position, I'd be doing more.
[9:29] You should have seen her debate.
[9:34] I'm glad you talked up to him.
[9:38] They're in for a tough deal now because, and I think they let the cat out of the bag.
[9:46] Probably they thought that Boland and all these pacifists, these Quakers, you know, would be delighted to hear that they're waiting for the next election to get the Democrats in.
[9:57] And they didn't know he'd come running right to me.
[9:59] That's right.
[9:59] Because Boland's a Republican.
[10:00] He is.
[10:00] I know.
[10:00] Didn't you think he wrote two good memorandums?
[10:02] Very, very good.
[10:02] That guy's standing there, doesn't have to do a, you know, just precise.
[10:04] He's very good.
[10:04] He's very good.
[10:08] Rabin, you know, is on our side.
[10:09] He's getting canned.
[10:10] They're going to send him back.
[10:11] He's leaving.
[10:12] Yeah.
[10:14] Well.
[10:15] Rabin and, uh.
[10:16] He's smart.
[10:16] Diane.
[10:18] God, I wish we could get rid of her.
[10:23] Diane was there.
[10:27] We could win.
[10:27] You know, Sadat has great respect for him.
[10:28] Sadat, yes.
[10:28] Sadat has great respect for him.
[10:29] Diane.
[10:29] The military guy is the best one.
[10:34] Yeah.
[10:34] Tell us how you got him in, tell us, sir.
[10:38] Another thing on your side, something that I think could be insightful.
[10:45] You know, the young people today, you know,