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Conversation: 504-013

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Start Date: 27-May-1971 2:42 PM

End Date: 27-May-1971 4:26 PM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Kissinger, Henry A.Rogers, William P.Bull, Stephen B.

Recording Device: Oval Office

Full Tape Conversation Start Time: 03:10:32

Full Tape Conversation End Time: 04:31:22

504a.mp3

504b.mp3

504c.mp3

504d.mp3

NARA Description:

On May 27, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, William P. Rogers, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:42 pm to 4:26 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 504-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 504-13

Date: May 27, 1971
Time: 2:42 pm - 4:26 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

     Unknown person's letter to Time magazine
         -Tone
         -North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
         -Democrat
         -NATO
         -Letter

William P. Rogers entered at an unknown time after 2:42 pm.

     Lunch
                                        30

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



     -Food
     -Refreshments
People's Republic of China [PRC]

Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
    -Forthcoming NATO meeting
          -Melvin R. Laird
          -Rogers attendance                             Conv. No. 504-11 (cont.)
    -European Security Council
    -Negotiations
    -Reductions
    -Strategy
    -Germans
          -European Security conference
                -Berlin issue
          -Willy Brandt's comments on May 26, 1971
    -Andrew J. Goodpaster
    -Defense Department
    -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR]
    -Negotiations
    -Laird
    -Limited, mutual reduction
    -Tanks
    -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
    -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
          -Amendment
    -Mutual balance
    -Final agreement
          -Prospects
    -Type of reduction agreement
    -10% Reduction
          -Troops
                -Effect on the US
          -Manpower
          -Tanks
          -Symbolism
    -Congressional support for administration position
    -Europeans
    -German Desires
    -US strategy
          -Pace
          -Limited initial goals
                                              31

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



              -Final balanced force division
         -Complexity
         -Europeans
         -10% Reduction
         -Progress of negotiations
              -Prospects
         -Role of the US
         -Timing                                                  Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
         -Force reductions
              -10%
         -USSR
              -Estimation of their response to force reductions
         -Studies
         -NATO Council
         -Kissinger’s conversation with unknown person
         -NATO Council
         -NATO Allies
              -Consultation

    Albanian resolution
         -US position
               -Possible failure
         -United Nations [UN] vote
               -Important question
         -Admission of PRC
         -Expulsion of Taiwan
         -Prospect of passing
         -PRC admitted, Taiwan expelled
         -UN Security Council
         -Possible advantages of supporting


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[National Security]
[Duration: 30s ]


    CHINA
                                             32

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

******************************************************************************

         -Possible political consequences for President
              -Young people
         -Dual representation
                                                              Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)

******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[National Security]
[Duration: 13s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5

******************************************************************************


         -US allies
         -Taiwan
         -Possible UN resolution
               -PRC
                     -Admission by majority vote
               -Taiwan
                     -Expulsion by two-thirds vote
               -Prospects for success
         -Seat in the Security Council
               -PRC
               -UN General Assembly
         -Taiwan and PRC in the UN
         -Issue of Security Council Seat
               -US veto
                     -Credentials issue
         -PRC
               -Taiwan seat
         -US discussion with her allies
                                             33

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



         -Speech
         -Prospects
         -UN


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6                                    Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
[National Security]
[Duration: 1m ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6

******************************************************************************


         -Future course of US policy
              -PRC
                    -Seat in the UN
                    -SALT
                    -USSR
                    -Effect on USSR in the UN

    [Unintelligible]

               -PRC initiative
                     -Ping pong diplomacy
                     -Possible reaction of US public
                          -PRC seated in the UN
               -Peace in Middle East
               -US relations with USSR
               -Berlin
               -Mutual balance of forces
               -Vietnam
               -Possible public reaction
                     -Middle East
                     -China
                     -USSR
                                           34

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                   Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. 9/08)



                  -Two Chinas in the UN
                  -Foreign policy leadership
                  -Liberals
                  -PRC
                        -Seat in the UN
                  -Expulsion of Taiwan
                        -China lobby
                              -Chiang Kai-shek              Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
                  -Lack of principle
                  -Intellectuals
                        -1972 election
                        -Democrats
                  -Taiwan
                  -PRC
                  -Two Chinas
                        -Dual UN representation


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[National Security]
[Duration: 46s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

******************************************************************************


             -1970 UN resolution on PRC
                  -Supporting votes
                  -Abstentions
             -PRC
                  -Inclusion in UN
                  -Dual representation
                  -Seat in the Security Council
             -UN vote
                                             35

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)




******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[National Security]
[Duration: 1m 42s ]

                                                             Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

******************************************************************************


         -US relations with Taiwan

    Rogers’ forthcoming trip
        -Duration
        -Instructions for Rogers
               -US examination of position


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9
[National Security]
[Duration: 7s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 9

******************************************************************************


              -Need for time
                                             36

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. 9/08)



******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10
[National Security]
[Duration: 25s ]


    CHINA                                                      Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 10

******************************************************************************


               -Change in US policy on PRC
                    -Hardliners in Congress and in the press
                    -China lobby
               -Exploration of allied views
                    -Options
               -Press conference

    Two Chinas issue
        -US policy
              -Temporary delay
        -Chiang Kai-shek
        -President's decision
        -News story
        -US private discussions on PRC
        -Speech
        -British
        -French
        -American Bar Association [ABA] [?]
        -Role for Rogers
              -Possible speech

    [Unintelligible]

         -Great Britain
         -Chiang Kai-shek
         -US approach to other nations
              -Possible approaches to be used
                                              37

                          NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                      -Possible phrasing of proposal
                      -How diplomats will respond
         -Delay
              -Possible consequences
         -Chiang Kai-shek
         -Delay
         -Role for Rogers
              -Announcement                                    Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
         -Rogers’ view


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11
[National Security]
[Duration: 18s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 11

******************************************************************************


         -Principle
         -PRC


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12
[National Security]
[Duration: 25s ]


    CHINA


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 12
                                            38

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



******************************************************************************

         -ABA [?]
         -Timing
         -Jacob K. Javits’ and George S. McGovern's resolution
              -Forthcoming hearings
         -NATO meeting
         -Laird                                                  Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
         -USSR
         -Australia
         -Summary of Rogers’ instructions
         -Timing
         -Possibility of President making a speech
              -Senate
              -ABA
              -Television

    Europe
         -Franklin D. [?] Roosevelt
              -US domestic support
         -Reduction of forces
              -Need for unity
         -UN
         -NATO

    [Unintelligible]

    Dr. David K.E. Bruce's replacement
         -Henry Cabot Lodge
         -Leonard Unger
         -Walter P. McConaughy
         -Foreign Service officers
         -Public officials
         -Vietnam negotiations
              -Prisoners of war [POWs]
                     -[Names unintelligible]
                     -[Forename unknown] Colmer [?]
                     -Unger
              -Knowledge of Vietnam
         -Bruce's view of his job
         -Colmer [?]
         -Laird
                                        39

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 9/08)



         -Charles Nelson [?]

    UN appointment
        -George H.W. Bush
             -Unknown candidate
        -Rogers’ choice

                                                             Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)

**********************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[National Security]
[Duration: 33s ]


    MEXICO


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

**********************************************************************


              -Manlio Brosio
                    -Medal of Freedom
              -Austrians
                    -Kurt Waldheim
              -Austria
              -Ceylon
              -Africa
                    -South Africa
              -John A. Volpe
              -USSR
              -U Thant
                                               40

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13
[National Security]
[Duration: 31s ]


     MEXICO                                                         Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 13

******************************************************************************

     Rogers’ upcoming trip
         -Drugs
               -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]

Rogers left at 4:09 pm.

     PRC
           -Rogers’ views
           -Delay
           -Tactics
                -Delay

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:09 pm.

     President's schedule
          -Meeting with John D. Ehrlichman and Egil G. (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr. in 10 minutes

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:26 pm.

     PRC
           -State Department
                 -Strategy
           -Lack of position
                 -Press conference
           -Rogers
                 -Marshall Green's advice
           -Two Chinas
                 -Principle
                                             41

                         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. 9/08)



              -Selfishness
         -Kissinger’s view
              -Delay
              -Two China position
         -Kissinger's visit to PRC
         -Universality
         -Possible votes in UN
              -PRC accepted by majority                       Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
              -Taiwan expelled by 2/3 vote
         -Domestic concerns
              -Polls
         -Possible announcements
              -President
                    -Tactics
                    -Credit

    Europe
         -MBFR
             -Reductions
                  -US position


******************************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[National Security]
[Duration: 11s ]

    ITALY


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

******************************************************************************


         -Russians
              -NATO

    Leadership
         -John Foster Dulles style of diplomacy
               -Jeremiah
                                        42

                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                Tape Subject Log
                                   (rev. 9/08)



      -Charles A.J.M. De Gaulle
           -Seventeen Nation Disarmament Conference
      -Nixon
           -Intellectual Opinion
           -Douglas [?] Dillon's comments to Kissinger
                 -President’s Vietnam policy
      -Kissinger's views
           -Soft-line                                     Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
           -Intellectuals
                 -Position on Nixon in 1972
                 -Influence
      -Senators

MBFR
   -Vienna
   -Strategy
         -Reduction of forces

           -Summit
           -European alliance
      -Rogers
           -Advisors
           -Tactics
           -Competence

PRC
      -Rogers trip
           -Duration
      -Agha Mohammad Yahya Khan
           -Message
                 -Date of delivery to PRC
           -Laird
           -Pakistani Ambassador
           -Kissinger's wire to Karachi
                 -Laird
                 -US Ambassador
                 -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
                      -Code
                      -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                      -Moorer
                      -Messages
                            -Speed
                                           43

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                     (rev. 9/08)



            -Yahya in Lahore
            -Message to PRC
                -Date of reply
                -Chances of a reply
                -Presidential visit
                -Possible visit of a public emissary
     -PRC
            -Revolutionaries                                   Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
            -Mao Tse Tung
                 -Great March
                 -Visit by the President

Russians
     -Leonid I. Brezhnev
     -Kissinger's conversation with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin on May 27, 1971
           -Trade deal
                 -$500 Million
     -Possible Summit meeting
           -Russian strategy
                 -President's eagerness
                       -Berlin
                       -Trade
                       -Summit
     -US desire for a Summit
           -Strategic Arms Limitation Talks [SALT]
     -Vladimir S. Semenov
           -Announcement
     -Kissinger's conversation with Dobrynin
           -Antiballistic Missiles [ABM]
     -President's foreign policy style
     -Possible talking points
           -Summit
                 -Date
           -Trade
           -Berlin
     -Russians need for a Summit
     -Kissinger's letters to Russians
           -Possible response of Llewellyn E. (“Tommy”) Thompson, Jr.
     -Berlin
           -Kissinger's cable to [David] Kenneth Rush
                 -Delay
                 -US strategy
                                                 44

                           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. 9/08)



                            -Pace of events
                            -Summit

     PRC
           -Kissinger’s planned trip


******************************************************************************
                                                          Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[National Security]
[Duration: 1m 5s ]


     TAIWAN


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

******************************************************************************


     Mansfield Amendment
         -Meeting in Cabinet Room, May 13, 1971
               -John J. McCloy's comments
                    -Time magazine
               -Dean G. Acheson
                    -Time magazine
               -Cyrus R. Vance

Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:09 pm.

     President's schedule
          -John D. Ehrlichman

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:26 pm.

     US politics
         -Vance
         -Democrats
         -Vance
                 -Secretary of State
                                               45

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. 9/08)



                 -Edmund S. Muskie
           -Democrats
                 -May 13 meeting
           -Hugh Scott
                 -Meeting of the Arts Council
                 -Support for the President
           -May 13 meeting
           -Gratitude to Kissinger                                  Conv. No. 504-13 (cont.)
           -Statements attributed to Acheson and McCloy
                 -Gen. Lauris Norstad
                 -Vance
                 -Clark M. Clifford
                 -Norstad
                      -Tour of duty with NATO

Kissinger left at 4:26 pm.