On May 28, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, unknown person(s), J. Edgar Hoover, Ronald L. Ziegler, John D. Ehrlichman, Henry A. Kissinger, Wilbur D. Mills, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:12 am and 11:04 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 505-018 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
I was wondering about this, uh, temporarily I'm going to take it up with Mitchell, but I was wondering about this statement of, uh, of regard to stand-ins and primaries, the, the cap that your neighbor would require.
This would be a, the top potential would be a stand-in in a high-level convention.
I mean, either one way or the other, but we're going to decide how he... Tapp has talked with Mitchell.
Tapp has moved, was moving unilaterally and then conferred with Mitchell.
Mitchell and Ray Bliss concurred in his move on the basis that it was the only way to keep the thing.
locked up in Ohio, and this is what they thought.
I mean, it's the right move.
I didn't know he had said that there was a plan for one in the election.
He doesn't say it's a plan for us.
It's something, that's something that needs to be evitable, an inevitable problem.
It needs to be settled, really, as to what the tactic is in the primaries, because it's ridiculous that this goddamn election is up your way, you know, and this bill is playing.
a bigger one.
If you have to, if you have to campaign, then fine, I wouldn't campaign.
And if your name is on it and you don't campaign, what, you know, you might have a career threat.
It may be that the better thing is to let them understand that it's, understand that you're out and stay above it and not be concerned about what the hell happens with the voters.
How it happens to the delegates doesn't bother us, but you're concerned.
Not one dot can't fit.
Since in California and there,
I think you have no problem breaking up with each other.
You know what I mean?
That's what you do in those states where you can't get out of it.
Oh, we're going to put you on the phone.
In Oregon, well, there's more of them now.
Florida, Nebraska, all have the same problems.
Florida, Florida, Nebraska, they're the third major.
You have to put that into them.
They're talking about it.
And I'm talking about you.
Exit over, please.
Well, she gave a pretty good answer, I think.
Can't we get one of these lousy sons of bitches to write something like that out here?
Well, the school district moved quickly to answer it on the basis of data.
They make the assignments to the school.
They put it on the security list.
It was strange.
It was part of it.
It just wasn't practical for it.
That's true.
They got a hall running Secret Service over and all that jackass stuff.
Cool.
It was very partisan.
What did you think?
It wasn't played well.
It was...
Oh, it was played big, but it wasn't played in a, you know, it was played as pretty much in a personal way, rather than, yeah, as 60 teachers, and I'm delighted to hear.
If they have an anarchy, our school district has an anarchy, and you might have one of the co-students, they might want to do the Democratic county chairman's involved.
That would be a very nice little story to read.
That's the way you really get at these bombs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is convenient.
I think the most way to play these is to go after them.
That's why I want more use of wiretapping.
Or are we doing adequately with the...
We're on and off on it, asking, well, it should not be on.
I mean, that's something we can afford.
That's better than to hire 18 more researchers, you know, or little boys to go over there and try to figure out what the PR was.
We can pick that up.
We can't do anything.
We can't get any information.
Why don't you do that?
Why don't you put your money for a little money like that?
We've got spot coverage on Teddy just because I don't want him to know what he's doing.
We have access in on all of them through this.
We've got boobs in and out of them moving around.
We've got channing out of them.
What do they have to do?
Just gossip and sort of chit chat.
We've got a fairly good fix on what they're all doing.
Yeah.
I didn't call you.
Yeah.
Look.
In 62, it was the best testimony.
Now they would have just about every goddamn thing we could imagine.
Gone.
My house.
Where, you know, every goddamn thing you could imagine.
Now that was a clever deal.
Before we see other people, where is the key factor?
See, could you put somebody who you got, you could put in charge of, not Colson, I understand.
You can't do that out of the White House.
We've got outside, and that's the way to do it.
If you haven't got it, just do it closer.
I mean, do it closer.
Or at the end of the copy.
I don't know.
Maybe it's the wrong thing to do, but I have a feeling that...
I have a feeling that if you're going to start...
If you're going to start now...
I'd probably sell it before they...
I think they can do it.
They're going to be up for that, you know.
You figure just the three of them, don't you?
Oh, yeah.
Teddy Muskie.
Yeah.
Who else?
I don't think they get it in the county, but I mean, maybe women get a real stand-along.
Any one of the leading Democrats.
What about the general range of...
you know, all right, Democrats, now you're talking, and I think maybe that's the, you know, just looking for scandal or, you know, impropriety or anything.
Of course, Malinow's been working that on the outside, too.
And the press conference material, you know, the press conference should be available by 7 p.m. in the house, 11 p.m. on the 8th of January.
Well, that's right, they already started.
Yeah, we'll head to camp, see if you can get back on time.
Okay.
All right, we'll start at about 3, yeah, 3.30.
We'll have a tent up there.
All right.
Well, I probably won't.
So, if you'd like to come, if you'd like to send it up tomorrow.
All right.
Well, that's just okay.
And Mike, unless you really don't want to, it might not be a bad idea for you to stay out on Camp David Monday.
which is a holiday, and keeps you away from the question of going to the unknown soldier or some, you know, uh, Lamar type thing.
Oh, we do have a problem, do we?
Well, not really, but this question may arise.
We haven't, we, there's been no oppression.
We're not under any pain, and there's no reason not to come down if you, if you want to come down.
I don't want to stay up too long.
I wonder if, uh, you took that over to Geerage on that, uh, little gallop question.
I don't know what, I don't think he's got to the gallopy, but he knows of Geerage.
Oh, yeah.
And he's following up.
He's moving in.
He saw the plane.
Oh, shit.
that worked with us in developing the point, Senator.
But I mean the point of that specific question, because he may not know what the speech is, and I think he said that he saw it.
Yeah.
That it had never been said, and so forth.
How do you see the Gallup organization just deliberately, just playing a partisan line, you know, like a candidate, you know, putting out some present time?
Their idea of development is that there's a young economic thing that's going on.
Yeah.
bring stuff in where we can.
You're putting them in, sort of bringing them in to your long-range VR and sort of the goals, thinking, where are we getting them?
That's been pretty good.
And I don't know, what you keep me working on is a little bit of this.
I doubt that he is, he has got to come up with a, he is introducing them.
Turn somebody around.
Do that.
He might have sort of a,
There's probably a better chance to afford it.
It's going to take a long time.
He won't come up with a lot of ideas, but all of a sudden, you know, there's going to be a deal or something.
You know, there's butter out of the hole on each of the rides.
Mark's got a very fine touch, though.
I'm talking to him.
Could you have one here?
Hey, can you lose the charge?
You know, it's up to Mark.
Who's in there?
Sapphire?
Well, it's up to Bob, sir.
Yeah, Cliff Miller, as far as outside the White House is concerned, yeah, it's Cliff.
And Cliff stays in very close with Moore, and he's starting to work with Scali somehow on the inside, too.
That's starting to build up good.
And he's been working, of course, with Sigler and Chuck.
Really?
You know, kind of looking around and picking up.
But we have to go through this.
Also, there's a rhyme that we never get to hear from the Democrats, but we have the New Deal, the Fair Deal, the Great Society, the New Frontiers, and so forth, and we've got to think.
And our army can't do better than we can.
Also, we just go here and ours will not.
You get picked up, but you've got to get one that you buy, that we buy, and then we've just got to hammer it on the truck.
The open door of the generation of peace and the revolution.
There is something better, something more interesting overall.
I consider that a very high priority.
I'm sure very high priority.
This is, I put it sort of in the same category as you put all of the other things.
We've got to get her up and all these guys just, they bring in their jobs.
Get out of here.
We don't want to do too much stuff.
Don't just concentrate on political stuff.
Stuff that has meaning to people.
It's absolutely true.
I was reading Bonetta's book.
He said there was a case history on how to screw the White House.
And that's the reason that somebody that is soft and so forth and she's getting along is not the problem.
He had the contempt of everybody.
He operated on his own.
Do you think the people over there, the people over in St. Croix, St. Coral, Bob, don't you think they were
Yes, they were, and that's what happened.
You've got to take a position and have, you know, give people a chance to be for you or against you.
Bob tried to keep everybody neutralized and succeeded, losing them all.
I suggested for this OBG.
We've got another one then.
He doesn't have anybody in mind.
He was...
he gets the point.
We're going to have to clarify, because he questions the thing to a degree as to what we mean by conservative and what purely Republican is.
In other words, his point, though, is if you take the Jeff Bezos conservative, that you're going so far, and talking with Kevin Phillips, he's exploring the same area.
You really, there isn't a problem over there that matters very much.
Yeah, but it's a question of who you're creating the cosmetics for.
The people that, whether it's a significant hardcore conservative or not, there isn't in the sense that you've got Congressmen and columnists.
There's too much jackasses running around.
You know what I mean?
It's the type that starts something for Reagan.
Don't underestimate the Schumer.
We all know that.
We all know what he thought.
And that's the realistic threat.
Everybody wanders around worrying about Mofoski.
That's actually a fiddly shift, but Reagan could not be hit.
He could hurt us.
He could not be within the party.
He gets a hell of a hold.
And that's the real problem.
That's the reason he could not be even.
Right now, I've been hanging them.
You know, let's face it.
You're keeping them hanging for a fundamental reason.
You've got to have the whole ring in line.
These are ancient and soft.
I'm not going to get rid of them.
How about your kids?
This cosmetics and what it is, is it really is having a line to this?
How about Marianas?
Yes, Artie, he says, he's not sure we can get him back right away, but we can get him back in a little while.
And we have him as a consultant, and we can make him more visible in his consultant role, so that, you know, it's because the advice of justice, the advice...
Get that in a column right away.
Like, uh, Martin Anderson was, uh, coming in with his name in the program, you know.
He was the advisor, and the chief consultant on that.
And he'll later come on and vote on it.
I don't forget the benefit of it.
Now, let me tell you, it's all bullshit.
But, gee, John is a John who should be hextra at bullshit.
So is Nair with the...
It's a process now.
If someone's not in hand, it's a burden on them that he doesn't see.
It's just fun.
Just do it.
Just make a move.
That's all.
And they all say, well, we've got Marty Anderson talking again.
We've got our voice.
That's all.
I don't do it anymore.
I want to do what they say.
It isn't that.
It's hard.
Yeah.
I was doing a little thinking last night about it.
You notice where this clown, Harrison Williams, was claiming that we were blocking an attempt to let the FBI go in and do help out.
And of course, we answered that question.
He's answered it.
We answered it here.
And of course, you know, the director, Amber, covers that.
And I also saw your letter, which indicated, my God, in New York, you're trying to be around something.
Which is good.
I mean, you're running it.
Yeah.
I know.
It's just one thing we were in harmony.
Here's what I had in mind, and I'll let me just run this while you think about it, and I'll get an answer.
And I know, and I'm not thinking of a public announcement on this, so much as just a question of a tone.
First, I think it would be, the reason we've got to oppose something like the Schweigener bill is it would get the Bureau immediately involved in every police job.
And this we must not do.
Right?
Right.
That's what I meant.
The second thing is, I've heard Henry give on a case-by-case basis.
you could determine that you would want to be able to get in.
In other words, where you sort of had the scent and the smell of a national conspiracy thing, you know, then that's a different matter.
Now, would it be, for example, possible to say something like this if you were to get a directive where it said that
in where the law enforcement officials, I mean, where there are attacks on law enforcement officials, and where there is evidence of, or suspicion of, of conspiratorial or non-spirited, you know what I mean, other than just a crime of violence that, you know, the kind of thing like the managers and all that business.
Right.
where it's basically that kind of an action that then the Bureau on a case-by-case basis should go in and will go in and do everything that it can.
Now, what I'm really trying to get at is to give you, is to find a way to handle so that you can go in only on cases where you want and
And that would mean cases where it did appear as if it were this other thing.
And then second, to go in with everything you've got, whatever you've been with, sir, the electronic energy.
Is that already covered, or what would you say of that?
Yeah.
Correct.
As far as the procedure is concerned.
That's not what you're doing because of the violation of civil rights.
Right.
Right.
Senator has asked about that case.
Did he say that the FBI, well I suppose it's already been said.
How well do you think you are investigating this either as a civil rights thing or something like that?
Yeah.
Well now with regard to the New York, with regard to crime, yeah, with regard to the police thing now, what I'm getting at is I want to get a position where we can
and where, you know, my God, all that William and Jerry, does he want to be in jail himself, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, we don't, all of us have, you know, it's a lush, for him to, because what I'm really trying to get at is a way to sort of reassure people that we are doing everything we can.
I know you are, and into that I want to, as I say, I want to keep the Bureau out of everything that it doesn't want to get into.
I don't want to do anything that will get the Bureau in trouble with Logan Police Departments, but if there's any more handle that you need, I'll send a direction to you if you want, or I'll have the Attorney General sign one, either one.
Yeah.
Sir, I need to hold this.
Hold.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
You alright?
You alright?
Yeah.
Alright.
Good.
Yeah.
You alright?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know.
Not a woodwork.
Well, the interesting thing is that here you've got Williams and Schweiger.
Now, these two dogs are both doves.
They're both against strong law enforcement.
And here they are out leading the charge.
Did you see?
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, there might be a place for some statement then if we did.
Well, I'll tell you what, I'm not recommending, if you can kick it around in your shop and take it and then raise it and view it eventually, if you've got a recommendation as a statement that we could make,
That is, understand, nothing has to be done this week.
Let's do it maybe next week after our meeting.
We have to have a statement come off of that meeting with the Chiefs of Police.
And maybe by that time we can say that the FBI will do it.
Even repeat what we ordered in Old African.
People forget what the FBI is already doing, you see.
Yeah.
That's right.
As a matter of fact, maybe we've got to take that and boil it down and make it appear like a new thing.
See?
And then put any new development that you can.
Figure it out.
There's no urgency.
I don't want to do anything.
It's a memorial evening.
I don't want to do it.
But you talk to them here and say that we want to get a way to state this so that it's a new story when we hit it on Wednesday.
Thursday.
Fair enough.
There, you word it out, sir.
You will.
I'm not the one guy that understands the importance of, you know, making you know what you've done.
That's right.
And he really does.
And he knows.
That's right.
He sure does.
I want to do it very quickly before the morning conference.
Determine who announced the time of the press conference today.
for Tuesday night.
It's suggested by, I talked to Crothers and Goods of 8.30, is that more of them?
So we don't cut into a movie that way, and we don't cut into any programming, and the difference in audience at this time of the year is marginal.
I mean, it's... 5.30 in the West.
Well, the difference in ratings between 5.30 in the district and 6 o'clock this time of the year is just fractional.
8.30 is fine.
Let's do it that way.
If we don't cut it, what will we do?
Correct.
Do you have anything to add, Mark?
I think he was talking.
This time of year, it makes more difference than any other time.
As soon as you get bailouts, get by the service on the insurer.
Well, they have all requested 830s because of the movie support.
If this fraction was this time of year, I mean, this is the kind of thing that I...
I think 830 is fine.
That's quiet, but remember, normally we'll go 930.
That's right.
It gives us a... Hey, is this the only margin?
Yeah, wait a second.
Yeah.
I forgot to talk to you about the water.
I can't take it.
I can't take it.
I can't take it.
I can't take it.
I can't take it.
I can't take it.
If we're going to look, if we're going to spend the money, I'm not going to leave it in about an amateur's department.
Now, maybe there's a way that even, maybe you all can work it out.
Yeah, it is important.
Now, the second thing is, I wanted to ask you, I feel that a better way to handle it,
the purpose of this will be drugs for veterans and so forth.
I would like to have it handled in a way where we bring in the fall for drugs generally with particular emphasis on, you know, wherever the problem is.
Now here's the point.
Everybody's against drugs.
If we put drugs for veterans, then it immediately becomes the war on the other.
Now, we'll mention drugs generally, and if we get to a lot of times, you know, look, our problem is at the present time is the veterans go after them.
Now, when we say drugs generally, you know what I mean?
Well, and we say particularly the use of drugs by young people.
See, I put it on that basis.
By younger people.
The use of drugs by youth.
I think that's where the problem is as far as the old county should be concerned.
Then drugs.
Then you could come up.
Then on a subsidiary basis, you could get the other.
On a subsidiary, in the background, you could say, well, now we're going to handle the other problem.
The other thing I was saying, I was going to say climate change.
The other thing I was going to say is that I think that, and I've marked in the news summary that you might be able to use the device of the Inspired League to show that we're way ahead of these bombs that are racing and finding drugs and so forth and so on.
And by Inspired League, I'll tell you the name, Mr. President, or maybe you have one in mind, Mr. President, and give us a...
All right, well, if you could reach him this Friday, he might be able to do it.
That might not be a bad place.
We could give him one level and so forth on his story to be picked up.
Why don't you catch him before his deadline today?
See if he's finished his call.
He may have already got in all those weeks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well.
Do you see what I mean about the fact that I think that just having the same president is setting up a man directly responsible for drugs for veterans?
I don't like the sound of that.
Whereas if the president sets up a program of $120 million to fight drugs for youths,
And then, of course, we know in the house that it's all about veterans.
See what I mean?
I just think that's a better way to do it.
Is that alright with you?
Another way to do that is to get some more of that stuff out of that goddamn Brown, you know, and over here.
Because I really want to take the program away from the Institute of Mental Health.
I really feel, you know what I mean, I'm just trying to do everything.
Let Brown, you know, get people on the couch and whatever these other people do.
God damn it, don't keep him out of the drug business.
Huh?
Krog knows how to, yeah, as a matter of fact.
As a matter of fact, he broke the doctor and put him in charge of the program.
No, really, he's not good.
He's a Christian scientist.
All right, all right.
Well, he can take this and be in charge, okay?
Fine, but you and Krog talk about it and I'll be back in touch with you at 3 o'clock.
Do you know what they're doing in India?
when that silly Bowles was there.
So he and Mrs. Bowles, they had money, of course, when I bought a little Indian house, and Linda and she ran around in sandals and bare feet and so forth, the group that she was liking to get.
That's an embassy residence and left the goddamned piece of it.
It was so filthy that he had to, where Kitty, he couldn't afford, you know, to live in the house, he had to clean out the goddamned, hippies, junkies, everything were in that magnificent house.
You ever seen anything like that?
I did.
It was a mess.
And I know he did it.
Balls to Sherbrooke.
He's a sweet guy.
He loves people.
Utterly permissive and utterly disastrous as a great ambassador for the Indian soccer that happened in the United States.
I don't know what you're getting at, but be sure to be right on top of it.
I said the other day, I was asked about it the other day, and I see that's very much on the mind.
We have a program that has been...
And the very intensive work that's being done in this area has received the attention of the very highest level of services that are in the direction of the President of Syria.
But not limited, not limited, gentlemen, to drug companies.
It's drugs for our younger people, wherever they are, home and abroad.
You're sure right on that.
You would want to call it drugs for children.
The only people you get when you get drugs for veterans is first you get all the anti-war people, but also you leave out a hell of a lot of upper middle class families in this country who avoided the service.
Saxby really struck home.
That was really some great event.
I mean, it's great.
It'll make another goddamn congressman feel better.
But it shows you what Henry did, the detainments, the destruction of the couriers of the upper middle class.
I'll bet you your goddamn professor at Harvard, I'll bet you the numbers of their children that have been to Vietnam, the percentage is probably 5%.
I'll bet you the number that they've been killed is probably none.
The fact to be pointed out, here are 435 members of the House in that Senate.
I don't know, 500 members of the House in the Senate.
There's only one.
And he's been wounded.
One.
For Christ's sakes, who's fighting this goddamn war?
No, yes, it's a double standard.
I'm a slender guy.
I understand.
I understand.
Here it is, poor David.
Poor David, he's like his grandpa.
He's a duty and life credit.
Does he want to go join the NAD so he can play their ways?
Easily.
It's a great idea.
Yeah, I can find a way.
But God damn it, somebody has to serve the country.
And again, I'm a speaker of Europe.
And as I look out over these bodies, and up over these spruces, and see you maimed and wounded and killed, and the horrible story, so Bill Duckley looked into how many airmen had been killed in Vietnam I.
One young graduate?
Yes.
Is that right?
He made it sound as if they were marching right off the campus.
It all looked like a graduation class.
Okay, I'll get to this one.
Anything else?
That doesn't interest me.
Now, when the Russians want to, they can certainly move that.
I called the previous yesterday morning and said, look, you don't want an entrance on the sound of a cable from Smith.
He said, you're not talking to Simon at the beginning of the process.
That's good.
It is just what we asked until I told him, I called him at 10.30 in the morning.
He called me at 6.30 and said the instructions had the issue.
I didn't tell Smith what the instruction was, but they told him to omit any interpretation of the statement, just so I could understand.
It's in itself, it's not a concession that means a hell of a lot, except it shows how much importance they encourage.
Maybe it shows a little.
We'll find out.
Do you want anything else?
I don't know, but do you want to look over this thing that I want to get to, one way, make the proposal of the deadline, yes, by, uh, uh, if it is, uh, as a fixed deadline, or as a fixed schedule?
Yeah, I'd like to see it.
I don't know.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Something more.
Oh, well, fine.
I'll come out around 10 today.
In fact, I was going to have you come in.
I didn't have the time.
I'll sit for a couple minutes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stay here.
I've got some jerk from Puerto Rico coming in.
You've got a jerk.
You have 10 o'clock.
It's just a meeting.
Yeah.
Just stay in here for a little while.
For a little while.
Stay right in here.
Congratulate him to get a picture and let him go home.
I talked to Bill this morning.
I called him about, he said he received a, whether he'd raise a point about that leave.
And he did.
But I called him about Sadat, and I said, what does this all mean?
He said, well, he said, it was the crisis.
He said that he thought that they probably had to demonstrate that they still had us in there.
I said, I think that's correct.
And he went on to say that he was really, I'm going to forget this, embarrassed.
He said, I was, we could have been more embarrassed.
He said, everybody's hell about it.
He said, it had to be somebody at a very little level.
He said,
Well, I said, no, probably.
He said, we haven't discussed this today.
We were here.
No, he says, I don't think that's it.
First thing is, God damn well, he was here.
I think it was Marshall Green.
I think it was.
I'm sure it isn't Bill, because there's all these things.
Well, Bill would have had to have done something.
Also, Bill wouldn't do it for another reason.
We have to understand.
And Bill has always kept his word, Bob.
You know, he never breaks his word.
No, I feel like it.
But he keeps referring to Blair.
I wouldn't trust the son of a bitch.
Blair would leave personally or encourage leave.
I think there are two factors.
One is that Marshall Green and his gang decided that with Rogers overhearing it was a good way to force you and to make Rogers look as if he had extracted it from you.
Because they'd like to get into the key position on the China business.
And did somebody keep
I'm sorry to be greeting somebody with a yanker.
The law team told me you'd take a poll next week, wouldn't you?
It may just say, Mr. President, what I mean on the China position is this.
I want to know, I just don't want the question, do you favor the admission of red China?
Put that in, communist China.
Harris did not use the word communist in this question.
Do you understand?
You say people from public in China.
People don't know.
Now, I've got a question.
Now,
I want the question put so that people understand that the U.S. has opposed the admission of communist China to the U.N.
And then said, because Communist China has 800 million people, et cetera, and has supported the Nationalist China, use the words Nationalist and Communist China people as Nationalist China, because Communist China has 800 million people, Nationalist China has 1,500 million people, a proposal is now being considered whereby both countries would be in UN.
And then, do you favor this or do you not favor it?
Now, that's the way to get at dual representation.
You see, Bob, the...
But I think that's a question to ask.
As a matter of fact, it might not be efficient, Matt, since we want to have him take a flyer.
No, I don't know.
Cosa wants to take a flyer off with Harris, even on Harris Poll, but the question is sophisticated.
Yes, it did vote.
I know what he saw.
It's in the paper.
It's in the paper, but it didn't vote on that question.
Harris said, do you favor better relations with the People's Republic of China?
They all came to the Senate and said yes.
They have one on the Communist China Commission.
Oh, maybe that's it.
Well, that's all right.
On whatever we say, Mr. President, I think we ought to defer it until after the talk is over.
The one thing I think that you've got to remember, though, is that there isn't going to be any crap around.
I think they're on the swamp weed.
That government is different now.
They've been going around and around this draft.
We're not going to give them two weeks.
It's a one-week deal.
I mean, here it is, boys.
This is it.
There's no discussion.
There's no give.
For example, the thing that you really got to get in the statement, in my opinion, is there's absolutely no compromise whatever with regard to the settlement.
We will not discuss the settlement.
We will not discuss the matter with the government.
That's it.
If you want to do that, then just make every case and leave.
The only question is, these three that are left, do you want to talk or do you don't want to talk?
If you don't want to talk, that's it.
And then we will have to resort to other means.
And then we'll resort to other means.
Technically, they cannot get communications back and forth if that's in two weeks.
And that's one other factor to be considered.
Judge, you have now accepted the 28th for the meeting with you.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
And we ought to get their turndowns.
It is a turndown spot.
Ten days before, but not too far before, so that they can't scoop us.
So I would think around the 20th would be the best for the turndown.
It's going to be a turndown.
I mean, nothing will happen in the interview.
Yes.
The thing is, I forget what's going to happen.
They're going to play the nice line.
And the whole tone of this one is dirty poetry.
There ain't nothing disgusting.
There's nothing disgusting.
Because when you look back at the discussions before, that's what they were doing.
He was diddling us along.
We still had all these discussions.
I remember that Mary had bad luck with her children.
She had to go to the park and fix her shoes, fix her car.
She was barely moving.
They were heading for a settlement.
But that case and ours, it was a totally different situation.
They couldn't make a settlement while Lucy had camped out here.
And we couldn't make a settlement letting the parents camp or what you say.
This is a direct question.
No, this won't be released until Monday.
And this was a big poll, 2,500 households took a break because there was a lot of break-ins on it.
Each year the United Nations has considered admitting Communist China to membership.
Do you favor or oppose admitting Communist China to the United Nations?
Question.
Favor 48, oppose 27.
And that's a shift from, the last time he did that was in 1968.
At that time it was favor 32, oppose 54.
Now, now that's, that's probably directly different from ours.
This, ours was before the, before the China business.
He says this reversal is one of the most dramatic shifts in American attitudes in recent times.
The same survey also recorded a majority of Americans in favor of diplomatic recognition of the People's Republic by a margin of 55 to 20.
In 1968, the public opposed recognition by 44 to 39.
How do you put the question?
It has been argued that we could deal better with Red China if we recognized Communist China.
This would allow us to have an ambassador in China as we have in other Communist countries.
Do you favor or oppose recognition of Communist China?
Favor 50, opposed 1.
Here's the two-china.
It has been suggested that both communist China and nationalist China, Formosa, be made members of the United Nations as two different countries.
Would you favor this solution or oppose it?
Favor 50, opposed 22.
Now, in 68, it was favor 41, opposed 38.
This shouldn't have occurred then.
And her American favor of a two-China policy has risen steadily over the past five years.
Now you're at 50 to 20.
Here's his point.
The support for a two-China approach is not substantially greater than the back of giving the seat down.
The point that was really made, though, is that... Leave us on a bench.
I don't know that you can.
But the point that was really made is that...
is we know our coal is on us.
If his is on us, then there's been a ship since our coal break up.
We ask the question on Congress.
We'll ask ours again.
Our people will find out if there's been a ship since then.
Yeah.
I want to ask the questions the same way he asked.
All right.
Let's just check them right out.
Those questions are very well put.
Very well put.
He's got them very well put.
So let's get ours the same way.
It's interesting.
On this regional break with admission,
which is in favor of 48, opposed 27 nationally.
Midwest is much stronger in favor, 56-20.
South is 40-34, still favors.
They're close, they're close.
The other regions fall pretty close to the bottom.
And the age groups, all age groups favor.
Young more than others.
Young more than others.
57, 23, even 50, and over, 43, 29.
This is not a damn encouraging thing to me.
No, sir.
The Humphrey voters favor 55, 21.
The Nixon voters favor 48 to 27.
The Wallace voters oppose 40 to 43.
When I look at the Wallace voters, look how close that is.
The point that I'm making is that what this shows is
One, it's probably in view of the fact that we pulled this and got different answers, is that it may show the effect of the China initiative.
It also may show what is even worse about communists.
That's what I'm concerned about.
What he says on that is, some of this reaction is no doubt due to the silent fall from China itself, shown most thoroughly on the fire table testing for visit.
More basic is the growing American recognition that Red China is a major country and the communists have been in control there for over 20 years.
What the public is saying is that it is better to maintain communications with other major nuclear powers than not.
Monday.
We'll be published Monday, but see, we've got it, so they probably have it, too.
If this is accurate, well, then we really don't have enough to go to Tuchel.
As opposed to getting rolled.
No.
No.
No, but can it grow?
There's two ways of getting growth.
One, any.
Any getting growth means that you're going to regulate something.
Can it really stop you from getting growth?
No, there's no way of going to a great one, Bob.
Mr. President, no way.
All right, pull it out.
Congratulations.
Well, thank you.
You really should.
Thank you so much for the great job.
I had a lot of good luck.
I think I'll call later.
I gave, I gave, I gave.
It's right.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Well, they're not disputing, anyway.
That's the whole town.
That's a great plan.
We will figure it out.
I'm sorry you did the issue, but you never could have done it without me.
I did it all the way from here.
I got you to be still.
The only thing that's happened to you in the past is the fact that you're in the administration and they're doing that for you.
I'm just, you know, I don't know what to say.
It's pretty tough because it's there.
And it really, I couldn't believe that the people in our district aren't 100% behind it.
And so we showed that they do.
I think that's true of that rally, too.
I think it's true of that rally.
I saw him in one of the test administrations.
He was a positionary.
I thought, man, he's got a hell of a response.
We relayed that.
And while your president is out there, of course, you spoke there, too, but you said the president needs another member of the Congress.
I said, here's the number.
Oh, that's good.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I was just kidding, you have that decent thing on the rest of your bed.
Yeah, you can get that.
Stay on it.
I don't know if that's the one again.
I don't know if that's the one again.
I don't know if you should have read it on Facebook, but I think it's a good one.
It's a good one.
It's a good one.
It's a good one.
... ... ... ... ...
Thank you very much.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you, sir.
Let me see.
All right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You got to take back the ear.
Ha ha ha ha!
Now, you got all this stuff.
Didn't you want it?
No, sir.
I got all this stuff in your office.
I've got it right now.
Oh, what's the matter?
What's the matter?
Why don't I make you work extra little money?
Thank you, sir.
All right.
Thanks.
Thanks, sir.
What I am, Henry, is an idea.
You know, the way you get it right.
Thank you, sir.
now can only be considered in the light of our domestic interest.
It cannot be considered in the light of our domestic interest because if we get in a position where the majority of people listen to this kind of a poll will have an effect on the industry.
The point that I make is that
It's a very different situation.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We're prepared for what we have in Vietnam.
We don't have to do that.
What I meant by getting rolled was the price we pay for delaying two or three weeks is that we'll have to work a little harder for the two China outcome.
The advantage I see in waiting, if they don't answer us until the end of June, then we do whatever you think is best domestically.
If they do answer us and the meeting is coming up, it would be better to give it to them after the meeting.
than before the meeting because it would then show a result of the meeting to them.
And that's the only concern.
We have to make it, I think, but our position, our posture now has got to be wrong.
And as it turns out, it doesn't make any difference.
Probably, hopefully, it is.
That's right.
let it gestate a bit, the secretary runs over, he's consulting with her allies, he's consulting with her allies, and so we consult.
It may mean, and I still think the idea of, you know, it's good for a reason.
If we decide to do it for a reason, that's their international reason.
I mean, he's the one for me to get up and have to say that we're concerning our friends is one thing, for him to do so is something else.
And as far as the domestic things are concerned, the domestic thing is not.
We've already made a record.
I've been talking about China.
We broke the ice.
And if the thing works right, Mr. President, you may be able to announce a speaking visit
and by the middle of August.
Oh yeah, oh yes, I know.
Because I, after they talk like this, we get any kind of breaks.
And that's the way, but you see, that's why you've got to have the word of the brain first.
And if you do mean it, the brain does not come forth when it's not.
The thinking business is going to come forth.
There's a call, period.
Well, that's why we... Why not?
We'll go there and talk about it, even though they don't agree.
Well, you have to decide what's worth more to you, the announcement of a visit and then the anticipation of it, or whether you want to actually have the visit this year, which would be a very dramatic turnaround.
Just as long as I have one or the other.
Let me put it this way.
Don't wait.
Next year is a political year.
Everything will be cast into political connotation.
Everything we do.
It is not good, therefore.
And also, again, the next year.
Nothing will occur after July 1st when the Democrats dominate.
Because after that time,
that all the goddamn press will insist that the Democratic candidate has to go along, you understand?
That's the other problem.
Or his advisor will go along.
Now Johnson didn't do that, the son of a bitch.
Didn't tell me about the bonding clause except from the telephone.
Nevertheless, that's what they're going to say.
So therefore, all of our foreign policy initiatives have to be completed by the first of July.
There's nothing else that could be done.
Absolutely.
You see what I mean?
Absolutely.
So there's our deal.
That's why I think what we've got to think of, I prefer a Russian summit this year than a Chinese next year.
But it would have to be in the spring.
Oh, yes.
Absolutely in the spring.
Not in July.
You see?
Oh, no.
April or so.
Or May or whenever you want it.
And what I'm getting at is further away from the election.
Sure.
You know how these damn bastards react to everything we leave, and now they say it's all political.
Now that doesn't bother me particularly, except that if you get to the point where they have selected a candidate, in your words, quite obviously, you might be afraid you're going to be nervous.
We don't have to make the decision now.
The one advantage of having something like it happening, apparently, is I got it from that other professor.
You see, if you were... Yeah, but the Chinese wouldn't dare to speak like this without instruction.
Assuming...
I don't want to draw too many conclusions because we'll get our answer within two weeks.
But they obviously don't want to have opposition people come to Peking before you've been there.
They may just announce a couple of opposition people.
Yeah, but if the summit were announced in the interval between its announcement, you're going there.
They don't want to irritate you, I think.
But let's see what the briefing brings back.
I'm going to give him the ultimatum very shortly.
and tell him if it isn't now, we can't do it this year.
That's the only way they'll believe it.
I cannot, if I just ask him for an answer, then he'll look like, it'll look like pleading and nervous.
If I tell him it's now or never.
So far, brutality has been the only answer.
And daring gambling has been the basis that our president's got very prestigious.
I said we just will not be in the position.
He can't be in the position.
He's still in and out for the balance of the year, state president's support and so on.
And we just won't let you play this game.
You know as much now as you're going to know from us.
And if you can't make up your mind, then let's wait for a time when you can make up your mind, which cannot then be this year.
That language you'll understand.
It has a lot of advantages because... Maybe if you already have that, the best overalls would be to have the China card in your pocket before that.
That's why I hope that would be.
But you aren't going to get that.
You aren't going to get the message.
No, the Chinese will wait two weeks.
That's their system, Mr. President.
There's just no way they... 1926.
Could happen next week.
We could have it by the end of next week.
Through next week.
Our message did indicate...
The Chinese, that is, it was higher, I remember, before right from the beginning.
The President would... Oh, yeah.
In fact, the President thinks it ought to be done.
It can only be done well at his level, and therefore the President is willing to come to Peking, not in order to prepare it properly.
That you would come first to a secret meeting.
And between the secret meeting and the visit of the President,
Did we put a date on my visit?
No.
No, that would have been too eager.
No, no, no, no, no.
We didn't put a next year on my visit.
They realized they could get it earlier.
I was thinking of the date they had.
Oh, yeah.
They may want it a hell of a lot earlier.
They may need it a lot earlier.
I'm sure they want it a lot earlier.
You see?
So I'm glad we didn't put a date.
No, I wouldn't be eager.
I wouldn't put a date on it.
I just didn't.
I meant don't put it next year.
I wouldn't put it this year either.
I didn't put anything in.
All right, I'll leave this over.
Good.
We'll, uh, you'll fly on Sunday, huh?
Yeah, and I've got it covered that I'm up to see my family.
Hank will get all phone calls that come in tonight.
And I'll arrive at night and I'll leave in.
Uh, and
Yes.
We've seen this.
We saw him again yesterday and he said he wanted me to tell you again.
Hopefully he's behind you and anything you want.
He's the old guard.
He doesn't want that.
He's less vain than Anderson.
Oh, no, he's a much better man.
Well, I mean, he's got him here.
Anderson's more clever.
But this fellow is, because of his lack of vanity, a much better human being.
Oh, yeah.
He would be the ideal man for him to go on that trip if you wanted him to.
Have you agreed when you both decided that?
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we always thought that.
But he'll be out of that and then... Well, if anything happens in their story, we might move up to the date of July 1st.
Let me spend a moment with you.
I think Kohler.
Yeah.
The more I think about it, the more I think about Kohler.
I know him extremely well.
Let me...
And feel him out, and if he's willing, I don't think you should be in a position to have to get him turned up.
All right.
The reason, I think it's better that he thinks we gave him the job than to stay.
I understand.
So then...
I want you to do it right away, though.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, uh, and then you see here that Rogers, uh, uh, when does he leave?
Tuesday.
Rogers won't approach him now until he gets back.
Well, fine.
You approach him, and, uh, let's wait until you get back to approach him.
Right.
I think it would have the greatest advantage.
If Roger is gone, you call him.
Then I'll call him, and I'll just say, look, I'm an old friend of Coleridge, and I called him and asked him.
And then he can follow it up.
And that way he's your man, and that's what we need there.
Somebody with whom we can backtrack.
I don't know whether you can trust me or not, but I think... Well, not completely.
I don't think it makes any difference who's there.
Well, I don't think he's going to screw up.
Well, there won't be anything left to screw up.
They'll either accept it or they'll reject it.
If they accept it, then that's one thing.
If they reject it, then all that's left to discuss is prisoners at the right moment.
The colors of the ones that we're discussing, I have no better idea.
Well, it's better to take one blind bet than somebody in the public service.
I agree.
I think that would have very bad connotations.
Russia would be outstanding.
But that would be another feather.
And there, you might want to consider, it's up to you of course,
whether we shouldn't get Barr to leak when it's done what you did.
Sure, of course you should.
Because, damn it, in many ways, Seth... Yeah, I know.
We did it all.
That's right.
I know.
And that was a tricky one.
You know Barr, right?
I'm just talking about the leak.
Oh, yeah, Barr will leak it.
Oh, no, he'll leak it all right if I tell him to.
He may leak it anyway, but he'll certainly leak it if I tell him to.
That's right.
And the way we are doing it now, no one... You're getting a hell of a lot of mileage out of this personal intervention.
This was one of the greatest of the staff meeting this morning.
He was making this point.
Well, he said all these votes in the Senate that we're getting, we had, you know, I know I just... Mark, excellent.
Just do it.
Dang, well, he said it is completely a recognition of the...
the things that you've done, and they're starting to realize that, by God, there's more going on here than meets the eye.
And it's becoming clear to them that the Senate can't conduct foreign policy, that the things you're doing
There's a lot of reasonable guys that were buying the Fulbright line who are now beginning to realize that they were wrong in buying the Fulbright line.
The President has to do these things.
The Senators, the Senate can't sit up there on the Hill and negotiate.
Any world where you have totalitarian regimes, this is the thing that Bill doesn't understand.
He doesn't understand what Bill doesn't understand.
Dulles understood the question, but he did it alone.
And the reason that Dulles was able to deal with the Russians was that Dulles had the implicit
confidence of Eisenhower was always out there.
And everybody knew that if Dulles never even went to the bathroom without checking with Eisenhower, as a result, he represented it.
Rogers, on the other hand, everybody feels represents the State Department.
And they know goddamn well that he doesn't do it.
Now, with the North Vietnamese, with the Chinese, and with the Russians, they don't talk to secretaries of state.
Secretary of State,
Do you know who the Chinese foreign minister is?
I bet you don't know.
I don't think so.
It used to be going on.
Now it's Prime Minister.
It's somebody called Chen Yi.
That's my point.
But he's not...
But he's so unimportant that he was purged two years ago.
No, really, he was purged, disappeared, and now he's coming back and nobody...
There's another point, Bob, that is in this deal of foreign policy.
I know it irritates Bill because he doesn't...
When Roosevelt was here, our press made a hell of a lot of money.
Chromeco doesn't say a goddamn thing.
Unless he's speaking for Britain.
He isn't even in the Pollock Borough, is he?
No, no.
See what I mean?
He's not in the Pollock Borough.
That's exactly my point.
A foreign minister is a clerk.
Go on with the leadership.
These guys are getting this point a little bit.
This is his point.
He says this is why we're winning these votes.
Maybe something else is coming.
That's right.
We hope something comes.
But you've got the guys like Saxby who have just...
completely shifted.
Who was it?
John Sherman Cooper.
I was at a dinner last night prior to the Kennedy opening at the Margaret Child's home, and John Sherman Cooper was warbling along about you, great historic changes.
He apologized to me in front of everybody for voting wrong on the Messiah's Amendment.
He said, I'll let you know.
I know that if I had known what would happen the next day, I wouldn't have done it.
He said...
I think that killed him.
And he said, great initiative.
And Childs told me he's written an article about your initiative on Salt.
I haven't seen it yet.
Is your credibility with them for not putting that out today?
Did that get across?
Yeah, it hasn't gotten across to the public.
It's been a long way in the public, but it's been a long way.
I'm glad McGregor's been able to broker that.
That's a lot of restraint.
We didn't tell Mike.
which is a smart thing to do, but not another soul, no.
Not another soul.
And Mike knows, you know, it makes him, keeps him a little, puts him in a little odd spot there, because when you call him next time and say, hold up on something, ask an owner, Jesus, what are they going to call me now?
And of course, you know, I proposed to the freeman yesterday that Semyonov come over here.
Oh, what did he say about that?
And sign the hotline agreement.
And he said he thought that was a good idea.
No, of course, hotline agreement doesn't mean a damn thing, but everyone would figure... Or accidental warning.
No, the accidental warning.
I... Well, the hotline we've already got, sir.
No, no, but we've got a new one supplied, a satellite.
Oh, I see.
And...
It's a hotter now.
No, the freedom, this incident is interesting.
The freedom said, why don't we keep the accidental warning?
for a possible higher-level meeting.
Because just in case there is no sold agreement, we've got that.
And as far as the public is concerned, they forgive the Soviet deputy foreign minister comes over here to sign anything on arms control.
It must mean that things are going on.
They don't even know what this statement was we made last week.
Most people are confused as hell.
The intelligent people that I run into, they don't know.
You know, I went out there and was talking to people on that plane that were going to Johnson.
I mean, I don't know what it was.
You know, a lot of them didn't get the idea that, first, they missed that it was a presidential initiative the first couple of days.
Apparently, we didn't get across.
Well, I apparently got across in the Senate.
We got across later.
They missed the idea that it was mutual.
But now, I think both those things are getting across.
Also, you know, little straws in the wind at the Kennedy Center yesterday.
The Bremen was there with Tommy Thompson.
And
And when he saw me, he kept dashing across the hall.
And he said, Henry, Thompson was trailing behind him.
And he said, Henry, just let me know when you go back to the office because I can't have you in the office and me here.
You'll get too far ahead of me.
And Thompson said...
He said to me, God, you really have some relationship with the breathing.
Well, I don't get myself.
I have no relationship with the breathing of an individual.
Thompson is naive to think that a relationship is what does it.
You do have a relationship.
The reason is that the relationship is in the stomach.
They want a relationship with you.
The reason that Henry's does is in the stomach.
Now, Bill, action.
Bill, put it in another word.
If it were Richardson rather than Rochester.
We could use Richardson in a lot of this stuff.
But you cannot use him now, because you cannot use him now, because Rogers, he's got to go back and debrief the goddamn State Department.
And some of this stuff, too, I don't think he really understands.
He's too impatient.
He's too impatient.
He's thinking, well, let's go out and make the deal.
Well, we can do this, or we can do that, you know, or can we even say this much, or do...
You know, about the main thing with Bill is that he just panicked to get him to lose the man.
But coming back to the whole thing, do you not agree with me that it's just as well to let Rogers make the announcement as even when we move to do China?
Let's see.
Basically, yes.
What do you think, Bob?
Domestically, I think it very much is, because I think it's one that ain't going to do you any good.
And also, quite honestly, Mr. President, it will help us with the Russians.
Yeah.
Whoever good it's done with, you'll get the credit whether Rajesh or you does it to harm.
It'd be kind of nice to let Rajesh in on it, because I don't want him to be the dove.
Well, I can go either way.
We have the amazing Chinese in Russia.
We can see that on the basis of the answer, Mr. President, would be the best way if we know a summit is coming.
You realize that there's going to be a press conference Tuesday night, so it prepares me to answer and be very brief on the Chinese thing.
I do think we've got to.
We cannot say that there is no change.
I mean, we can't stumble up to that extent.
There is no change, but we, because I don't want to appear to be evidence if I'm just lying.
You know what I mean?
You can say we are considering, and we are consulting.
We have no change to announce.
And we are consulting with a lot of other governments.
Consulting with other governments is a question we're consulting tonight not even to announce today.
That's what I would like to say.
The more enigmatic right now, Mr. President, everybody is convinced.
that you are overshoeing more than you're saying, so the more enigmatic you sound, the more that we get to think... Basically, that's the real point.
It's the credibility.
I think it's really true.
I mean, as far as the writers and the other guys in the press out there, they wouldn't believe you in a stack of vinyls.
You know why?
No, not that this is good.
Oh, they wouldn't believe me.
No, they just couldn't.
Because they think, by God, he must be doing something.
It isn't like Johnson.
Johnson made the mistake of calling people in and lying to them about the budget, saying the budget was going to be $250,000 and actually he knew he was going to have it to $199,000.
He would lie to them in order to make them sleep.
They, I never lied to them, but I never told what I, in other words, and that is, and so, that's why my credibility with them is really very low.
But in a good sense.
I think even among the press, I see it now at these dinner parties that I go to,
There is a grudging admiration.
It just kills them to have to admit it.
But when I see the chancellors and so forth now, the difference in atmosphere compared to the end of the Laotian operation, when really we had to work day and night to keep them from open rebellion, is really enormous.
You know one thing?
I don't know if they're done.
One day, I don't know, I said, they, uh, in a domestic front, while, uh, we have our show that are even on the front.
Alabama dazzled the bastions.
First of all, it dazzled them that I would go to Alabama, right into Wallace land, right in the heart of this country.
All that thought that every, that 90% of the people in Alabama are for Wallace.
They're not.
And that is out in a straight out run.
If you were to have a straight out run, oh, that's one thing I want you to do.
I want you to poll two states.
I put one in there.
I want you to poll Indiana, Nixon versus Biden.
A very cheap poll, you understand?
Yeah.
But one that can be put out throughout Indiana.
And poll Alabama, Nixon versus Wallace.
Versus is just a two-way.
That's right.
Purpose be, you know, just to...
When Sergeant Schreiber came up to me yesterday, he said, you know, they were all there, just want you to know, he said, the president's foreign policy is outstanding.
He said that?
Yeah.
That son of a bitch.
Well, he is a son of a bitch, but why would he?
He wouldn't have said it.
Look, the thing is, Bob, the thing is, the point that Henry has made now begins to come true to some of the Democrats.
That's right.
They were in for eight years.
They did nothing on China.
They had the test ban with Russia, which was not in our interest.
Of course, Henry doesn't believe this.
I inherently do.
Well, I agree with the teller on this.
I would have voted for it, like everybody else, and I said I was for it at the time because there was no other choice because the people were for it.
But the test ban was in the Russian interest.
It wasn't in the interest of disarmament in England.
That's all you had for the Russians.
And you had the Cuban Missile Competition.
You had the Berlin Wall.
You had the partition of Laos.
Now, here we are.
Here we are.
Here we are.
In this miserable period.
And a terrible, traumatic, psychological trauma.
With regard to Russia and China, we have done more than most of that.
The Bradstreet's have even talked about it in 20 years.
Look at Pierre Curie, coming out the rain.
Didn't you think it was amusing where he came out?
This lad had.
I looked at it in Florida that last week.
Just a few days, a couple days ago, he said that he favored a moratorium on both, he reiterated a moratorium on ABMs and MERS.
For Christ's sakes, what the hell do you think we're doing?
That's it.
You noticed that got in the way, didn't you?
No.
He's trying to grab the issue.
Well, you can't.
I don't know.
That's where you get the advantage of the presidency.
I don't see how you can grab an issue in which the incumbent is doing what you claim you are for.
That doesn't give you an issue.
Especially since no one even knew that he had ever advocated it.
And since we can prove
that we had it three quarters done before he spoke, and that the only reason we delayed was to get an even better deal, which we didn't.
Well, that's really what he advocated anyway.
No, that isn't what he advocated.
But he's come up for this since you made our statement.
Yeah, you were here.
We made another statement.
Since we put up the joystick, coming up with the same goddamn thing.
But the moratorium on offensive is what we are proposing.
I know.
And on defensive...
Well, most people don't know the issue anyway, so... You know, I had an interesting reaction yesterday.
Carl Cardinal Boyle, that man, they go celebrate their company.
He was in the hospital that night.
He was a very important Democrat, but a good man.
But he said, I just wanted to tell you, Mr. President, through my prayers and how much I've supported your strong stand against these elements in your fight.
They were spoken publicly in Vietnam.
But somewhere in the period of reading the Washington Post, there's a very radical element in his church.
He's not a radical cardinal, as a matter of fact.
He's in the conservative group, but he's a mean Democrat.
That's what he is, a Georgian-y Democrat.
But my guy, he's with us.
He's like me on Vietnam.
So we've got a few of the right that are beginning to, you know, sound off a little.
What has happened is, too, it may be that some of the senators may be reflecting just a backlash against this inordinate just kicking the hell out of the president.
You know, he doesn't knock the shit out of you every day.
You know, it's been pretty rough.
Still is.
Mr. President, it has been for our states, guys.
even Vietnam alone, that you've held your cause against four sets of demonstrations.
The entire press, and at the same time, have managed to conduct a constructive foreign policy across the whole spectrum.
It's little draws into when Frank Mankiewicz
He told me the other day he's joining McGovern's staff.
He's stuffing his column.
And he said the first thing he's going to do is get McGovern out of foreign policy and get him into domestic policy.
He said that?
You know, these are all... McGovern out of foreign policy?
Yeah.
Well, what the hell is he going to have to talk about then?
Well, the domestic policies, you're a long time about, but how does he divide himself from the Democrats?
All the Democrats, including Jackson, are left on board on domestic policies.
They're total leftists, the whole bunch.
Jackson is too, you know.
He's a complete, he's a big spender in social programs and all that sort of thing.
You talk pretty good, didn't you, about what was happening?
Very good.
Scali wrote an excellent memorandum I sent by to you.
You get it?
I don't get it.
I haven't seen it yet.
Oh, and I wrote that last night.
Excellent memorandum.
I'm keeping that.
Too high expectations.
And he thinks we'll do another month of this.
Of course, it's got to have the new peace offer.
If the combat...
I think it still will mean something.
At any rate, the closer to the day that we are implementing...
I mean the end of the combat role.
The end of the combat role and a new peace offer is what has to come out after Q.
Right.
We can't do it before.
No.
Oh, no.
The...
But we can't touch it until we get the answer from the North Vietnamese on the off chance that they'll accept it.
But then on the off chance that they'll accept it, Mr. President, we can afford to go to Midway, take a bad press for a week or two, and then hit them again between the eyes with the acceptance.
If that's the way it develops, but it's just too early to predict how it will play.
Why would you take a bad press out of Midway?
Because you're just waiting to choose.
It's not good.
I'm not particularly close.
I don't have anything to say.
The only thing about having something to say is that I think it's good to say, to point out that Midway, that now we're over half of all Americans.
It will be over half.
It was second to say, and then have the announcement, that Two himself, not me announcing it, Rocker's announcement, Larry's announcement, Two has not.
Two, I think Two coming out and saying,
And I'm now prepared to take over the armaments, prepared to take over the ground combat role as of November 1st.
I think you're saying that'll have some effect, don't you think so?
Yes.
The average person has heard it.
Now, I thought, Mr. President, that coming now, it would put Vietnam right back on the front page and start a big debate on ground combat.
By the end of June,
One thing, incidentally, June 28th withdrawal didn't actually start until July 1st.
So you can say on June 28th, two years ago today we started the withdrawal, and now then you ask me to end the combat role.
And we may be able to float that piece over then.
Well, if they turn us down, we're not going to diddle.
I just think we've got to understand there's going to be, with an argument, two weeks to no more.
Oh, absolutely.
We'll have this meeting and one two weeks later, because there should be a second one, and if they either accept it or not, this is an element.
I agree.
There ain't nothing to negotiate.
The only thing, Mr. President...
They're likely to want to diddle it along for a year.
What we have to consider is that we might want it for tactical reasons three weeks later simply to get it closer to the meeting with you so that if they turn us down
We can surface the peace offer quickly.
Yeah, you must have no illusions, of course, about how they always get Vietnam up, even take ABC last night.
They led with the fact that their casualties were 38, the highest in three weeks.
The highest in three weeks, 38.
Yeah.
Now, what in the name of God?
Casualties in Vietnam, 38.
The highest in three weeks.
Mr. President, last year... Incidentally.
Of course, I put a little note and told Colson to get after this.
Did you know that that's one-fourth of what they were a year ago?
One-fourth?
Yeah.
They don't point that out.
One-fourth of what they were a year ago.
And one-tenth of what they were when you came in.
That's right.
Now, anyway...
But there it is, though.
There it is.
We've got these little editors up there trying, rubbing around.
Of course, they're going to go this dough with it.
That's why we've got to hit that in the eyes.
When we got to 100 18 months ago, we thought it was tremendous.
When we got to 50...
After Cambodia, we thought that was tremendous.
Our whole objective was that we get casualties under 100 and keep them there.
And then we said, can we get them below 50 and keep them there?
And now 38 is considered high.
They didn't consider it high.
They were trying to find a way that this was the highest.
Well, like the other day, they just showed you how the press operates today, where we are concerned.
The price index came out the other day to the greatest price of all of us.
It was only in three-tenths, and everybody expected it to rise a bit.
So it was one of the papers, and it was the wire services who played it.
This was the highest rise in three months.
Not pointing out that it was half, but it was a year ago.
See my point?
Oh, yeah.
The highest in three months.
Now, what the hell?
You know, I'm not showing you, though.
You've got a left-wing press here.
It's a...
The only way you beat it is just by achievements, and that's goddamn hard, but we've got to melt the publicity out of every achievement.
And everything's got to be a presidential mission.
As far as Berlin is concerned, we did it.
We suddenly, because really that is a, it sounds, it's moving now.
We can, I'm slowing it down a little bit just to get the summit.
July, I think.
All right.
That's going to be a presidential initiative, too.
I might announce it.
We'll make it better, Mr. President.
I set up that procedure on your instructions on an airplane.
I got Bob invited to the moonshot in January so that I'd have an excuse for seeing him.
I rode up on a plane with him to New York, and we worked out that whole procedure.
And we've got a file this sick of back-channel traffic to bar and rush.
And the Russians, and actually that was a trickier one because we had another party involved and that, now if that happens in July, we can say they had a Berlin crisis and we solved it.
They had an escalating war and we brought it down.
The Burmese thing is really more important, really, in terms of world peace than either the Mideast or the Mideast.
In order of magnitude, the least important is Vietnam.
It never, never, never has risked world war.
You know that.
We all know that.
I mean, I've been making that speech for 20 years, 10 years.
You know it's true.
China's going to intervene.
Russia's going to intervene.
None of them are going to intervene.
It's happening.
The next is the Middle East.
That has the elements that could involve the major powers because it's important.
Compared in order of magnitude, the Middle East and Berlin, it's light years difference.
Berlin is it.
Shit, if anything happens in Berlin, then you're at it, right?
That's why Berlin is so enormous.
And also, it's more important to the Russians.
They let Egypt go down, too.
They will never let Berlin go down.
We got a number of very significant concessions out of them.
For example, they had always...
insisted that we call, these are minor things, that we described in the document, Berlin as Berlin parenthesis West.
We've insisted that they say the Western sectors of Berlin so that it shows that the poor power responsibility, they've now accepted this.
Secondly, which is more important, they had insisted all along on legal justifications that gave East Germany control over access.
They've now accepted legal formulations in which they have a responsibility for access, which they never did even in the 40s.
That's more than Truman or Roosevelt got out of them.
And under those conditions, the Berlin Agreement, which I always told you we had to cut our losses, will actually be a small net plus on the ground.
I would like to call to green and to discourage him from, he's going over to stay today, from mentioning a foreign minister's meeting on Berlin.
Now, Bill didn't rank his point in this crazy meeting.
He can't float it.
It's too complex.
I think if they're high-level meetings, Mr. President, for this year and next, they ought to be yours.
Instead of right now, I suggest that you, after you finish that, take a look at the remarks that I gave Dr. Westland.
I handed his work to him.
I gave it to him.
He had first worked on something that was primarily on decon, and maybe...
I don't know what you said at the office council, Mr. President, but a lot of people are confident with me.
I wrote a little memorandum on it.
My wife told me, you know, the great job she does.
She has received more in two and a half years than Mrs. Eisenhower received in eight years.
And more actually than Mrs. Johnson received in four.
She got great press on her reception and she had a great line in it.
that they quoted her on afterwards, which said, they were all so pleased with what my husband did that they shook me extra hard.
Now, that's the thing.
If you see the line, that was one paper.
You see the other paper where they found one woman that wouldn't go through the line.
She was sitting on one of the chairs there.
And she says, well, I can't go through the line because I have hostility towards the president.
That was in favor.
Okay.
But I don't need to see it from 1230.
Okay.
But she did get a good press on.
Oh, she sure did.
We really have got some fantastic reaction on that thing.
I don't know why.
Let me ask you, Arch.
He ran around with that crowd.
That's why they did it.
On West Point.
You go right to the parade field.
They present you with a sword, but they want Mrs. Nixon there.
Is she asking for a sword?
She said she can't come.
Yeah, which is tradition, right?
The cadet commander, first captain, presents you with a saber.
And then you make your remarks, sort of in acceptance of the saber.
Then they pass a review.
A gun review, right?
Yeah.
Then at the completion of the review, that's where it goes.
This is one quick thing.
John Skelly's wiring the panel for Regal and McCloskey.
And Regal is...
has been saying that... What opinion?
The ABC thing this weekend.
Oh, issues and answers.
Right.
Regal has been saying around the country that at one point during the campaign that you indicated to him privately that the war would be over in six months.
What we would like to do is to have one of the reporters say, we checked with the White House, and they, you know, at the highest level, say that that did not occur.
Regal's nuts, isn't he?
But apparently the panel's really going to take these guys on.
That's what we're doing.
Oh, yeah.
And John's providing... McCloskey didn't keep his cool with Buckley.
Buckley ripped him apart.
But generally he does.
Buckley was awful hard to keep his cool when he was...
Well, that's just all just goddamn ridiculous.
Six months?
I wish I could.
Well, we're going to have ABC that queried me, and I'm going to say that I...
I didn't see the sum of it, but I recall.
He probably did somewhere somewhere in Michigan.
He was probably...
Right.
The question is, after the review...
The first option would be to go right back to the helicopter thing and depart.
The other suggestion is if you delay a few minutes, they would go right from the review to the mess hall for lunch.
If you go in and let them do that, and then you go into the mess hall, unannounced, covered around with a come-not-know, and you walk right through the hall to the cadet brigade staff's table,
Commander Stapleton, have lunch.
No, not have lunch.
Just go in, say hello to everybody, you know, kind of cheer as you come in.
And you announce at that time, you read the embassy order.
Yeah.
Or you give it to the agent.
You give the embassy order to the agent.
He reads the embassy order.
Of course, the way I look at it, I'll say, you know, I found it making my remarks and I forgot something.
I mean, I just have so many things on my mind.
I forgot something and I have an order.
I have a paper here that I'd like to read.
I have an order.
And then they'll all cheer.
We can't bring the whole press in, but it'll be a press pool to watch that.
So it'll be excellent.
It'll be a very good little personal touch.
And then you can play that way here if you want to talk to some cadets on the way out or just walk out or whatever you want to do.
You can watch, see what the setup is, play it the way you want.
Now, you've got to delay a few minutes for them to get off the break.
You have to do that.
There are two options in the delay.
There could be 8,000 to 10,000 people there.
And, you know, just guests that come up to watch the parade and watch it.
We can loop the motor team through the, by the crowd, so you just get a little reception from them, which wouldn't be bad at all.
Then go up to the cadet chapel and take a quick look at the chapel before you get out of the mess hall.
The other thing would be to go right to the, you stop at the trophy point, which everybody, you have to do, and then you can go to the superintendent's house and just go in and freshen up for a minute before you head home.
I might as well do my best to sort of...
build up the morale of the people on the superintendent.
The rest can't even have a few people in the shake-in at the superintendent's house.
There was, you know, the superintendent and the others and their wives, but we didn't do it for them.
If there is time, but I'd like to just meet a few of them on that occasion.
No.
She can't strip you of anything.
And then, as soon as they're ready, you can swing them by the way.
That's better.
The chapel is not really a very good idea.
I don't want to do a chapel.
Well, I just don't want to do a chapel.
Okay.
I see that.
Is that over?
Very well.
You certainly, you saw something, and I missed it.
We were right on a point we didn't think.
We did it on all those foreigners.
You know, it's a funny thing about advancing.
We have these manuals.
We work on all these things.
We have them.
But you know, you've got to constantly freshen guys up or they're going to get nothing.
Like your idea, which I understand is yours, that what you should have done is to let those people up a little, rather than having them miles away on the other side, to the middle of the street.
It's got to happen in the middle of the street.
It's got to be a street block anyway, so there's no reason not to let people stand there and just move the road some so that people can see you.
They want to see you and they don't want to be that far away.
And not getting out of that car is excellent.
It's a better picture, and it's being operated.
Now then, I don't guess I'll have a chair that comes down.
I think there's just not to just, it's always tough.
You have to get out, and I watch it, and you do it, and figure it out, but it's still hard.
You have to get out, and then you've got to figure what to do.
That's crossing to him.
Do they know that this is a very brief appointment?
Yes, sir.
It's just a tentative meeting.
We understand that.
However, there's a press program now.
walking outside to get in his car and face the steps.
That's pretty easy for him.
He can just walk here to the car and say goodbye.
Gives him a shot.
Okay.
Well, anyway.
Well, I don't know.
You can tell him to walk.
He just does a great job.
That's the way to do it.
He knows.
Well, he probably does.
Possibly just...
On the other hand, on the other hand, on the other hand, Alabama had, it was apparently a very good story.
They must have gotten some of the picture shots.
They did.
Oh, I saw the film.
They had various shots.
Yeah.
See, the lens wore short.
It looked like a big crowd ran by there anyway.
But you get more of a feel of it though in the other...
So Louis has started to downplay them.
They don't have grabs for me, as you know.
I'm very lucky.