Conversation 510-001

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Mainly I wanted to talk to you about this meeting with the Joint Chiefs and the defense people this morning.

We just had a meeting with the PR types up there who feel that we are going to unduly emphasize the military aspect of this thing unless we broaden this meeting to include Mitchell and Richardson so that we can come out and say that this was not a meeting about military heroin but about the heroin problem.

So if that's all right with you, we'll add that.

Okay.

And maybe somebody from the State Department, since we're going to propose that you have a meeting on the subject of international relations and heroin at some time, maybe next week or the week after.

John Irwin or somebody from the State Department, come over and just be there for this thing tomorrow.

And we can say you've...

across the board now I had planned to put on a tape the PR fellas say they think that would be very bad because it would leak that we had done that and it would look like we were reacting to media instead of that what I can do is make the tape available to them and have them go back to the Pentagon and play it and I'll take care of that privately

But we'll have Ingersoll, who's just returned from an overseas trip, to report.

And then we can say that this was not a report about just soldiers.

This was a report about the heroin problem generally and get that broader focus to it.

That's the thing we want to get everywhere.

Right.

It isn't just heroin.

Right.

And it's non-military.

It's very broad.

Now, we see a possibility of doing about a four-step bounce.

One would be to brief after this meeting tomorrow and use it as an occasion to brief on what we've been doing up till now with a fact sheet that runs way back in time as to the various steps we've been taking on the heroin problem and hint a little bit about what we're

Well, I think so.

I think you'll find that it's a much more manageable effort to do.

Right.

Second would be another meeting in a few days with the emphasis on the foreign policy aspects.

Henry is preparing a prospectus of what that meeting might contain.

Third, a couple of appearances.

Rumsfeld thinks on issues and answers, and an appearance at the Ad Council who've been helping us with the public education aspect of this.

Rumsfeld's going to speak there and other people to talk about the public education part of this.

Four, an announcement of our legislation and the affirmative program that you have with the military, which will involve legislation...

Well, in two areas.

Three areas.

One, a reorganization of the government to create the Special Action Office under your personal direction.

The whole subject across.

And bringing all of the functions of government.

Well, what this will be is the planning and budgetary control of all of the narcotics prevention,

and the Rehabilitation Act.

Everything.

Then we're taking charge of the drugs.

Exactly.

Personal charge.

Now, about when would we be doing that?

We'd be doing that in about a week or ten days.

Now, I'm having them draw the legislation.

I talked to the fellow yesterday that I think is your man to hit this thing, this Jaffe.

He is a tough, mean, smart little dude from Chicago.

And he knows his field better than anybody because he's running a program statewide in Illinois.

Very ambitious.

Very licensed.

He sees himself becoming the preeminent authority in the world.

And I, I dangled this, you see, and said, you know, this challenge.

And he says, well, I'd like to take a sabbatical and write things up.

And I said, would you rather take a sabbatical than run a national program with a president's rip and all the money you need?

And he smiled and said, well, maybe I could get somebody else to write the book.

So he'll... Well, I think he is.

39 years old.

I said, supposing you could do anything you wanted to solve our problem in Vietnam, what would you do?

He said, number one, I'd never tell anybody I was going to solve the problem.

He said, I would establish realistic goals and then I would exceed them.

Number two, he says, you've got to have machines.

The first thing to find out before you tell anybody anything is can we get the machines to check the urine.

He says, excuse me, I'll go out and make a phone call and find out if we can get the machines.

I said, now, hold everything.

Wait a minute.

I just asked you a hypothetical question.

Well, OK, he says, after the meeting, I'll go see if we can get the machines.

And then he goes on from there.

He says, I need some clout.

He says, that military's got to do what I tell them when I get over there.

I don't want to have to play politics with the military.

Then he goes on this way.

He says, I've got to have 130 medics.

He says, I'll train them in this country.

It'll take me 12 hours.

We'll put them on an airplane.

We'll take them over there.

And, you know, I like the way he works.

He lays it right out.

And so if we can get this guy, here's the way I'd like to parlay this.

We'll announce what we're going to do, but we won't announce the director that we have in mind.

Give me a few dates.

And we can announce what part of it, a week to 10 days from now, 8 to 10, somewhere along in there.

Then, a week later, I'd like to have you go to one of his treatment centers in Chicago and see what it is, and announce that you've talked Ogilvy into letting the nation have Jaffe because of the successful program that he's been running there.

to tackle this on a nationwide scale.

Now, that's all I can tell you about that for the moment.

We've got the guys working on the legislation, and we'll have it shortly.

We do know we can get the machines, incidentally.

The other thing the legislation will have in it is money for Ingersoll and for Jaffe.

And it will have in it the enablement to permit you to hold soldiers in the service who are narcotic addicts.

The legislation will be only with the military side?

Oh, no, no, no.

So far, it's all submitted.

All right, okay.

Plus the right to hold people in the military after their enlistment date if they are addicts.

Now, that will permit us.

to treat these guys in Vietnam before they come home.

Could you leave them on a volunteer basis?

No.

And I'll tell you why.

I'll tell you why.

They won't do it.

And the plan that Jackie outlines that I think is sound is this one.

You're a soldier in Vietnam, and you know that 65 days from now, you're going to be eligible to come home.

You call in to talk to your CO, and the CO says to your soldier,

You've got to have 60 continuous days off heroin or you can't go home.

You'll have to go into treatment here.

And it's 65 days now.

So why don't you start right now?

And every day you have to have a urinalysis under controlled conditions.

And within a minute, they can tell you with this machine whether you're clean enough, whether you've had any heroin that day or in the preceding 24 hours.

so the guy undergoes a urinalysis for 60 continuous days and if he's clean all 60 days he goes home right on time just as he would but if he stumbles and he resorts to heroin

at any time, then he starts a 60-day cycle of mood.

Right.

He has to be in Vietnam, according to Jaffe, if he's over there now, or in Germany, if that's where he is.

Well, if he's home, then that's, yeah, same thing.

But you see, the psychology in Vietnam is that the addiction is associated with that environment in Vietnam.

And the psychologist says to the soldier, look, you're going home.

That's a new environment.

You can leave this all behind and make this change back.

This is the time to do it.

And you can do it.

And besides, you have to do it or you can't go home.

So it's a stick and carrot kind of thing.

And Jackie says that'll work in a large percentage of the cases.

Let's do it, though, in terms of, if we can, Vietnam, just anybody ending this period of military service, so that we don't just say Vietnam, going home, in that environment.

And we all know that it's Vietnam.

is turned into anybody in his period of military service we're not going to let him go out that's that's one of the things we're not escaping from all right good now those are the things that the legislation i i think we have well they're not many in this field i'll tell you they really are there's one other george charlie

Hello, this is John.

I knew that you had got him talking to her in a chat with Peterson.

Without us all expressing our anger, here's your problem, John.

I explained that to Pete, and then George doubled back, doubled around, and worked on Peterson some more.

I'm Charlie Shaw.

Am I wrong?

I don't know personally anything about Brookings.

Brookings is a hotbed.

And I'm not going to take these people now.

We've gone around the guard track before you on these truths about 18 times.

The main thing is to go all out for others.

Oh, Christ, I don't care who else it is.

And also, you can tell them right after the election.

The coloration of this thing today is...

Very unfortunate, I think.

But I'll... Well, I mean, the people that are to be here.

They're J. Irwin Miller and a bunch of people like that.

And... That's this afternoon at 5 o'clock.

You don't go.

Oh, no.

No, no.

Henry and George and I go.

I think I'm going to suggest to Pete that from now on we collaborate on some of these things.

What are these people coming in for?

Well, they're just going to gas about the long-range world goals for America and the economic overseas.

He's having Gardner.

He's not having Schultz that I know of.

Schultz isn't on the list.

He's having the other guy, Kermit Gordon, from over there.

All right.

Yeah, yeah.

I'll find out what I can.

Absolutely.

They just go out and use this over and over.

No question about it.

Is there a better example than that?

That's very good.

Both were partisans against us.

And what's the other guy?

Allen.

And Allen, the education man, all were partisans against him and thought, what are they going to come out and cut you up?

What are they going to do?

Let me ask you a couple of things that will come to the memorandum that you barely haven't gotten yet.

I love what you're saying.

I really want you to re-examine whether or not we can have some stronger penalties.

Not for... Oh, I've got that.

We're working on it.

You don't understand.

Right.

And that's definitely...

I mean, I keep thinking of a death penalty.

A death penalty for a... Now, this is for an actual thing.

That's right.

Now, listen.

I did this in California.

I know there's a lot of people...

It hits a lot of people wrong who are against death penalties.

It's true.

But I think it's tough that, you know, like the Lindbergh Law application for pushers.

Not a pusher who's an addict, not a small-time addict, but interstate and so forth and so on.

I think you could have one hell of a talk.

But at the very least, go up to, not on the fines, they pay the fines.

Go up to, you know.

Mandatory prison.

Mandatory prison for life.

Life in prison is mandatory.

You know, something like that.

The other, the other in Miranda that I covered, the guard of the doctors.

I'm going to read it to those doctors.

Doctors, a lot of them are people that bring people to drugs.

Now they'll say you're interfering with their medical advice and all the rest.

but they go overboard even on sleeping pills.

They go overboard on sleeping pills.

They go overboard.

They have done it.

That's how people get those drugs.

Don't the ups and downs come from doctors?

No, not all of them.

You see, what's happened is that our pharmaceutical houses in this country have shipped these drugs to phony addresses in Mexico.

And so?

And so then they're smuggled back into the United States and into the market.

and we have we did that well we took care of that we took care of this in our in our crime act that finally got passed in our narcotics control act so that we have these pharmaceutical houses just the first of july or the end of this month they go under very stringent controls now on the sending of this stuff can we find out about doctors there must be doctors we will that's what your memo said and we're on that

Well, you probably already understand.

I'm willing to take a very hard line to get doctors.

Nobody likes doctors anyway, Bob.

I don't, John.

I don't like them.

I mean, it will last.

They ought to take a hell of a route and a hell of a responsibility.

And I'm going to get it in my AMA, and rather than talking about the medical program, ask them to help us in parking these drugs.

Cappy was interesting.

You know why he wants to take the medics from this country?

He says, hell, all the medics in the service in Vietnam are on stuff.

He says they get it right out of the medicine cabinet.

They call them caps.

And he says, I can't use any of those guys over there.

What's heroin?

Well, it's morphine or cocaine or something.

quite in the name of God that these people take this stuff.

It's for the same reason they drink.

They're bored.

It's a diversion.

Drinking is a different thing, in a sense.

Linklater's point, I think, is well taken.

He says that a person may drink to have a good time, but a person

does not drink simply for the purpose of getting high.

He takes drugs for the purpose of getting high.

Here's the difference.

And it's cheaper in Vietnam.

That's another thing.

But the whole motivation in this thing is something you ought to sit down and talk to Jaffe about sometime.

He's very interesting to talk to.

And I understand that I have not.

Let me say, I used to be much too hard on those that took it.

I understand now.

I understand why.

I mean, all that.

And I'm not for legalizing it.

I think the idea of legalizing the God family is ridiculous.

And he agrees with that.

Marijuana?

Yep.

You did one?

Yep.

Well, I thought I'd better comb that out right from the beginning.

He says, absolutely.

He says, you've got to draw a line.

And he said, you're either on one side of it or you're on the other.

And he says, I can live very comfortably with a president's position on it.

The point is, and it's what you said long ago, you're on the drug society, the state society, and if you get, uh, if you get on the drug society, why don't you start down that road?

I also asked for a study made, which I don't, I'm sure you would make, I don't know if you've got this, who are addicted to heroin.

How many of yous?

No, I didn't have that.

I'm sure there's a statistic that is easily discoverable.

People addicted to heroin, I am sure, will find that...

I'd like to know how many of them used marijuana.

Right.

And how many did not use marijuana.

All right.

Let me say, it's the same thing as cigarettes and cancer.

You get the deceptive relationship.

That's right.

You can say, well, if you smoke cigarettes, you've got 10 times as much of a chance to get cancer if you don't smoke cigarettes.

Now, that doesn't prove that you smoke cigarettes, you don't get cancer.

But it does say, tell us something that makes sense.

Now, the other thing, Jaffe, is very important.

The other thing, Jaffe, I want to tell you.

All right.

Julie was the one last time, Smith, she said there was no relationship between heroin and marijuana.

Well, that's her argument.

The thing Jaffe will tell you is that we don't know because we don't have any decent statistics in this country.

Well, he says your narcotic statistics in this country are totally unreliable.

And he said that's one of the reasons that he would like to become the director of a national program.

Because he said one of the things he would...

Right.

Is that right?

Yes, sir.

That's the way we're setting it up.

We're only setting it up for three years.

Like cancer.

Right.

Like cancer.

Right.

And the idea here, he says also, revelation to me, he said, drug incidence among Americans is epidemic.

It comes on, it goes way up, and then it comes down.

He says, we went through this country with cocaine some years ago.

Yep.

And he said, you can expect this heroin thing to go up farther.

But then he said, eventually it will come down.

And so he said, I would recommend that you put a finite term on this thing in recognition of that fact.

And he says, the sophisticates will recognize that you know what you're talking about.

Voice hats?

Not very many.

They have a very strong program.

A very, very strong narcotics education program.

It's one of the good things that they've done recently.

And they're really doing a first-rate job.

Matter of fact, they came in about a year ago for some advice on this.

We put them in touch with Krogh, and he's worked with them on developing this education program.

So we've had a part of it right from the beginning.

Yes, sir.

Do you want them before you go out?

All right.

Because Bud may have some of them.

You asked for another number that we have had right along, and that was on this Black Caucus business.

It's $100 billion.

and uh they they made the judgment not to use that in the response because uh they felt that it would uh impugn the uh the uh good faith of the little black caucus people you know tomorrow not after the errors yeah but that was it you see here is the line that i was trying to use expressing i may do something when i have something small scale

Yes.

REQUESTS.

REQUESTS AND DEMANDS.

WE JUST SAID, WE'VE BEEN USING A TERM OF OUR, WHICH IS REQUESTS, ON THE THEORY THAT THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO DEMAND ANYTHING OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I SAID REQUESTS AND DEMANDS.

I WOULD LIKE TO SAY A LITTLE ON THAT.

I SAID WE CONSIDER EVERYONE ON THE MANDATE CAPITOL OFFICERS.

IS THAT TRUE?

EASILY.

WELL, WE'LL GET, WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO MENTION OFFICERS.

A LOT OF MEMBERS OF THE CAPITOL.

PERSONALLY.

helped respond specifically to every one of these demands.

When we met, I told them quite candidly that on some of their requests that we would be able to agree, on others we could not agree, that as a nation we were committed here that we couldn't do everything for every group that came in.

And I would give them the commitment that we would be responsive and we would be honest.

We would not tell them that we would do something we didn't.

Now, we have responded.

We have agreed with some of the initiatives.

Let me tell you, as we look at this stuff,

that we priced our procedure.

If we had done everything, it would have cost $100 billion in tax per year.

And that would have required a tax increase of so much for how much every American family needs.

It's 50% of the existing budget.

So just add 50% to your tax.

And it's 50% increase in the taxes.

That's the point.

Across the board.

50% increase in the taxes.

And this is not, we just can't do this.

I think as well that they only have black passports.

I mean, basically because they were, they did not, I mean...

There's a 50% increase in taxes for 12% of the population is what it amounts to.

Yeah, well, they'd all say do it.

They'd all say.

I've got just a couple other odds and ends.

I'm very pleased, but I'm going to say it with regret, because I think it comes at a good time.

As Bob has probably told you, they uphold this situation.

just mentioned it to me in the yard here and said he wanted to run through with it nobody has to give it that's why we're excited very hard yeah the fact that the uh and we're going to continue to on that law and order county forgotten before you see mitchell's problem let me tell you with regard to the whole law and order all the cops know he's for law and order yeah the folks don't yeah

He's not a good publicist.

He's like Edgar Hoover.

They all know he is.

I think 70% would rate him as a good company.

I bet you if you'd ask the people, there'd be a hell of a lot more people who'd market than John.

That's probably right.

You see what I mean?

Now, on the other hand, John, this is one area people are interested in.

It's one area that we're taking the rap because we are tough.

By God, let's get the credit for it.

They've all got the fear.

Everybody's got the fear.

The Department of Transportation is about to award a $10.5 million contract to the Vertol Corporation for the systems management of urban mass rapid transit.

This is that rapid rail vehicle.

Now, Vertol Corporation is owned by Boeing.

And I put a hold on this until I had a chance to talk to you.

Is that all right?

Okay.

You know why I'm talking about this.

Sure, but I... Of course we're going to help out.

Obviously, I...

I understand that when we really come down to it, we know where they stand.

Okay, well, I'll let that go through.

I also sent a memorandum to you that I...

I want Magruder to work on it.

He's on it.

The SSP?

Yes, sir.

Don't give up.

God damn it, we can build the SSP.

I had him in last night.

I wondered if we can't take the whole thing.

And why aren't I meeting with the Japanese?

Well, he's on his way overseas today.

Wouldn't that be an exciting thing?

It would.

If we get together with Japan.

Well, I'll tell you what I've... And build the goddamn thing.

I've talked to Peterson and to Magruder, and they've talked.

Magruder's on his way to the Paris Airshow.

Yeah.

And he's also going to talk to the, well, as a matter of fact, he's going to fly the Russian SST.

He's going to go over and have a ride in it and fly it.

And he's going to see some Japanese while he's over there, the Mitsubishi people.

Why do you like Japanese?

Well, it is intriguing.

So he's given Magruder a briefing on the realities of the Japanese trade situation.

I let Magruder read your memo so that he understood what your needs were.

The other thing I wanted to mention to you was that I did talk, I couldn't get a hold of Rockefeller, but I talked to Bobby Douglas, his counsel, about that $100 million.

Yeah.

LEAA is practically a dry well, so we're going to look for other sources of money.

I'm not sure we should go.

Well, that's what I wanted to check with you.

It would go to the city.

And Douglas says that their crying need is for a narcotics court.

They had 40,000 indictments for narcotics violations, pushers primarily, in New York last year, and only 49 went to jail.

The reason is that their courts are so jammed up that the prosecutors take a lower plea.

Now, he says, what we'd like to do is set up a special narcotics court with judges on loan from other courts that are not so busy and get special attention to the punishment of narcotics violations.

And I said, Bobby, you are singing our song.

Send me down a proposal on that, and I'll get you some LEAA money, because that's a new thing, see?

and i can use lea money that way so he's getting a letter down to me he's got a very short time schedule i may have to move very fast on this okay what is the situation

Three of the numbers that are going to come out in June, July, August, and September, I understand.

I think they will come down toward the end of the year.

However, they're hanging high in all of this period.

It will be extremely difficult.

I wonder, in other words, John, in terms of all the things we spend money for and so forth and so on, I just remember hooting $150 million on some of these goddamn professors there that I wish I hadn't done it.

I want to get away from subsidizing the colleges and universities, and particularly the elite colleges and universities.

I'm really, really strongly about that.

Remember, I started it before, and everybody said I was doing it because of Cambodia.

I wasn't really doing it because of Cambodia.

I'm doing it because

these package of leeches and they're producing bad for kids.

Now let's put it into the other, put David to work on this.

You know what I mean?

Yes, sir.

I think if we move it out of that and put it into applied science, it's going to be part of the country.

And let these guys think we'll come to pay.

All right, the, well, the employment thing.

In terms of taking pressure off, we've just got to move in the right direction.

We're going to have a nasty problem with National Public Service employment coming down here, which is, quote, a bad bill, unquote.

How much?

Between $1 billion and $2 billion.

Now, it just may be that you really want to sign it.

It's a fast way of doing this.

Will it affect employment?

Yes.

I can't give you the hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Well, I know hundreds of thousands of jobs on one bar.

I want you to come down right into the numbers.

All right.

What I mean is also see what we can get rid of.

All right.

We already indicated we're going to veto it.

The speculation is they will veto it.

We've not said so.

And the reason is that it is practically the same bill you vetoed last time.

And the manpower folks say it's a bad bill because it's dead end and it's WPA and all that kind of thing.

The mayors say, God, give us the money, you know, and we'll go out and hire people to rake leaves and all that stuff.

It's virtually finished.

We know the formula.

Probably not.

I'll tell you what we're doing to it.

We're opposing it with our special revenue sharing manpower.

And there's a vote this afternoon on it.

We'll probably lose.

We've not tried to clean up the other bill.

We've opposed it with our respect for revenue check.

But we have some public service jobs.

Yeah, but the... Yeah, yeah.

Dropping the bucket.

True, true.

There is a dropping bucket, too.

No, it's a lot more.

It's a lot more jobs.

Well, if we're talking about...

something that will really decrease the supply of the roads.

I'll find out.

John, we may have to do it.

All right.

I'll take it this way.

Deficits, anything you goddamn please, as far as we're concerned, you cannot have a psychology of it.

But incidentally, I've got to know, is the bill highly restrictive as to where it goes?

No, it's not.

We can throw it into California.

Well, I'll find out about that.

That's enough for me to know.

Yes.

Highly restricted.

Yeah.

That'd be my guess.

Congress probably has to answer that question.

i'll find out i'll find out about those things and get back to him this is one of the reasons that i kind of need to talk to you alone uh george has got a real vested interest in that damn thing and he's got your best interest at heart but at the same time there's some things that we're just got to wheel that way sure nothing else matters is that clear uh yeah perfectly well he doesn't understand well

uh but he doesn't understand what you have to do we'll try not to put a double burden on your time but i really do think always the website really would understand it would be common yeah well i just need to get some clear signals from you and some of these things all right all right

I'll have you go over it and chat with the company.

I think that's the way to do it.

I want to bring him in more, John, for reasons.

One, he's a hell of an advocate.

Second, because politically, the more we can bring him in, the more useful he may be.

We may have to bring him in further.

Well, he's got good judgment.

I think so.

I think he has some railroad here.

That speech was just the right thing to say.

Just tell God and the Europeans to go through.

What would you say a little of that about?

He's a hell of a smart guy.

How did he do today?

I heard he did very well.

Very well.

The whole climate on revenue sharing has changed in the last two weeks.

Will there be a benefit?

Oh, no.

Broder ran a piece yesterday.

I saw Broder's piece.

Well, that's reflective of the change of climate.

And muskie hearings have helped us.

They've been very favorable to Revenue Sheriff.

Has he?

Oh, sure.

Now he is.

Of course, he has the advantage of having been on both sides of the issue.

But, see, he had Heller and Peckman.

And you're going to help us, isn't it, really, with your Revenue Sheriff?

Oh, it's...

I'll tell you, if I were Wilbur Mills and were playing smart politics, I'd fold right now and say, okay, I was wrong, but I see the light, and I'm all for this.

Now let's really go on.

Let's put extra money in there.

Maybe Nelson Rockville is right.

Let's have $10 billion in there.

And everybody would forget that he was against it.

And then we'd have to live with the damn thing.

Now, well, as long as he resists, we'll get a coonskin to hang on the wall for you.

I think we'll get some victories.

I don't know.

I'll have to look at Bob's poll and see.

Maybe not.

I tell you what... No, I don't know that they do.

Well... Maybe they do.

Understand, understand.

I'm sure they do.

I'm sure they do in the foreign policy area.

Well, basically, but they're on the war.

And maybe, maybe with very big deals like Russia and China.

Very little, maybe, somebody should know.

Well, let me argue this way, and I think Conley's right about you having an eye.

Oh.

I think seeing you

Roll up your sleeves, get mad, get in a fight.

Whether you win or lose, get your points.

But if you win, then you get more points.

Now, for instance, last night, on the answers, on the follow-ups on the police, about the third answer, I was ready for you to say, now, just a minute.

Look, let's get something straight here right now.

You and I disagree about this.

I'll never convince you, but just let me make this clear now.

I believe this and this and this and this.

And frankly, I don't care whether you guys like it or not.

I'm listening to the American people on this.

And get a little mad.

And show that you have an enemy.

And that you're defying the enemy.

And that you're standing up for what you think is right.

I think a little combat...

is a good thing at times.

Now, I don't know.

It isn't your style, exactly.

Well, yes.

It was fairly competitive as it was and came through.

But you were so cool.

I mean, you had the thing under control and your answers were rational and you were, you know, you were in charge and so on and so forth.

And you didn't succumb to the slings and arrows and so on.

And you just were serene about the whole thing.

And I think people like to see you take a sling out, I don't know.

I've been thinking about this whole business of, since Bob mentioned this to me, this whole business of what you stand for.

One way to make very clear what you stand for is to take a sling at somebody.

That's what Harry Truman did.

I think last night, I must say, I was a bit tempted to.

Of course, as you know, there's another theory.

The other theory is the theory of, well, the Floyds, the Raid Crisis, and Glenn Parnes, and a lot of other figures, that the people want, I don't know the limit thoroughly, but the people want the president to be above it all, and so forth, taking on issues and problems and so on, and this and that.

I don't have to agree with it.

And I certainly intend to move in the other direction as we go along.

My own belief is that you've got to be quite firm.

Oh, I was quite firm with him.

Oh, sure.

You just weren't me.

No question also that I was on the side of the police.

But on the other hand, I must say that I think that the idea that...

I think I should do it not in the way of losing my temper,

which I would not, but I would just get, by just getting very tough, I'll say, now look here, your, it'll be my shot, look here, you had your say about this.

I know that the great majority of you in the press corps don't agree with you.

And I'll put, make the other part of the press corps, I know you've been writing this.

I said, but I have a responsibility to see this government keep running.

I want to make it, and no group of hoodlums or vandals claiming to be demonstrators are going to stop this government.

Let's get that straight right now.

We're going to do it in the future if they come back into town.

What's the next question?

And I wouldn't have anything to add to that.

What's the next question?

I think there's a difference between being political and picking a fight on an issue, on the merits of an issue.

And I think maybe that, to the extent that somebody says, oh, well, he's just temporizing, just being political, you don't get any credit.

But if you say, I'm, you know, this is a matter of principle here, and a matter of right and wrong, and by God, we get a little worked up.

I think people begin to notice, at least, and they say, oh, I know what he stands for on that.

And we get some visibility on some of these things that we're for.

You get a clearer mark for Kennedy.

Yeah, yeah.

But you said it as the reasonable man.

But everybody says, John, that's the great strength.

I know it.

The president can be so cool in light of all this thing.

And Sapphire and all the PR types read it that he's that great.

Well, I may be wrong on that.

Like, for example, that is on television.

and that miserable White House correspondent's name.

I really should have gotten up and said, look here, that was a pretty shot.

You know, I'm having a funny experience along this journey.

Why are you going to be there again?

Well, I know, but see, that's your way.

You'll sit there and take it and you won't say it.

I'll be a gentleman.

I got in a fight with the mayor of Seattle here a while back over the Black Panthers.

He pulled a shoddy deal on our enforcement guys.

And

So I have had more favorable mail as a result of being carried in the local papers trying to make a thing out of it.

I've been getting more favorable mail from people on account of being against this guy than for any other thing we've done.

And I'm beginning to be convinced that Connolly's right, that people size you up by what you're against more than what you're for.

Do the hell of a note.

Well, as a matter of fact, they sliced me up for being against communism for many years.

That's it?

And it wasn't bad.

That's it.

I'm against, frankly, these unions.

Their side is acting it up.

I'm just going to shoot into his being against the press.

I think he's over to play that.

He sounds petty now.

He's getting a little carpy.

He just keeps bringing it up.

What the hell's new?

What's next?

He still lives on CBS.

We're not going to go that soon.

And I don't think he does it well anymore, John.

I'm not going to be critical, but maybe I haven't heard, but I got the impression that

It's getting a whining.

Yeah.

You agree?

Yeah.

I've been reading them in there.

Yeah.

No.

I think, however, I'm in a fairly good position to get a pretty tough on some of these things.

I agree.

Especially on the merits.

I need a little guidance incidentally.

You want to get some monastic students, Mr. President, running humanously and coming onto the grounds here.

You want to get a conservative with some visibility.

There is one appointment that we can make.

to the general counsel of NLRB that will send a signal all the way across the business community, and that's our manager, Dick Burris.

Is he deserving?

Oh boy, is he ever.

He has a master's degree in labor law.

He was on the NLRB staff.

He was on the House Labor Committee minority side.

We've had him here.

But would they, are you sure everybody gets credit on something like that?

Well, that I don't know.

He came in to see me today.

It's the first I'd heard of this situation, and I've got to do some more checking into it.

He says that Jim Hodgson is afraid we will offend labor, and that's the big issue.

Well, see, that's what I don't know.

Is there any way you can offend labor?

Is it a requirement?

Is there any approval?

That I don't know.

That I don't know, and I should know that.

I don't think so.

I think it's just your appointment.

It's a four-year term.

Well, I didn't know what your relationships with Meany and so forth are.

Burris is not popular with either Jim Hudson or George Phillips.

because of a very hard line he took when he was working for Arthur Burns here, when Arthur was on the White House staff, on farm labor problems.

And Burris is very much employer-oriented, and the employer groups all... Well, I think NLRB needs to tilt in that direction.

Well, he sure does.

The only guy that I think is worth talking to on this, actually,

I told Burris that I was going to stay out of it, that I wouldn't get involved.

He was looking for some help from here.

But after he left, I got to thinking that it is plausible, from the standpoint of his qualifications,

That's it.

That's all I have.

Let's see.

How about the Marty engine?

I've got a call in for Tim.

I'll see him as soon as he comes back next time and see if we can get him on full time.

I mean, I think that it would, if you understand that there's, I'm not talking about the bullets here, I'm just talking about the jackasses and things like that.

and a little bit of black in the comments and the rest.

Well, we can use a balance.

And also, he's a damn good man.

He is a damn good man.

He's totally loyal.

And frankly, we do need a balance.

You know, let me tell you, I have the greatest admiration for George.

George is basically a liberal.

He believes it, deeply.

He tries not to be.

Marty will fight very hard, and Marty will fight it.

It'll be a...

I can't wonder if it goes for me or anybody I have offhand.

And how about you, Mike?

I'll tell you who would be as good or perhaps better than Mike.

I doubt Mike would take it, because it would be a slight down for him.

But Harper is quite conservative.

Yeah.

And, uh...

Not really an out front man, but damn confident in that field.

Let me give out a little thought, because I didn't know that Weinberger was a possibility.

Well, there's, I think he's talking to people about it.

I think Flanagan, I think the move to state is really better for Flanagan.

Okay.

Well, maybe harder.

It's a good promotion.

It would be a hell of a promotion for him.

But he is very, he is more conservative, let's say, than anybody else I've got.

And he's a pretty good politician.

I've noticed that.

He played our game.

Yeah, very much so.

All right.

Well, Marty Anderson.

I'll get Marty if he can be done.

I'll, uh, what the hell would you be pointing to?

Well, the only thing I can do is make him a deputy director of the domestic council.

That's the only thing I've got.

That would bring him any kind of money.

Yeah.

On this job thing, you'll figure out what the, uh, how research that bill.

how quick it can have input, right?

And how much will it bring it down?

In other words, if you could bring in a flight of things, I noticed, for example, Renbrae predicts 7% of flight now.

This may be wrong, but it might be right.

But the main thing is, suppose it hangs six all year.

Because then the city has become an insolubility.

And worse things could happen in this bill.

What I'm getting at is that we could get it moving a little.

And also, we could solve a couple little problems in these cities.

One thing, I just don't know.

I haven't looked at it.

It's a CCC approach.

Sometimes some of these guys get out of the cities.

Get them out of the cities.

You have to get out there and put them on heroin.

Well, you run that thing, you run it as a pretty tight operation.

It's paramilitary.

And they're used to it.

I don't know if you can get away with that in this day and age or not.

That's what it ought to be.

You have to clean up the parts, you mean?

Yeah, sure.

They have to do pollution things.

You don't go off rivers to clean them up.

There's all kinds of stuff like that they can do.

And you can't.

They don't get any well out of it.

Explain the difference between...

Well, I don't have much confidence in my advice, but it occurs to me as one of them to get out of the building, because it may never be so obvious.

Yeah, I think an awful lot of people would have immediately rallied to it.

Although a lot of people did anything.

I mean, there's a sympathy reaction from this guy up there.

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

On the other hand,

I wonder if they get some kind of maybe a wound reaction.

No, no.

I don't think you get it from that.

I don't think you can really get mad at a person or a group.

You have to get mad at the issue, you know.

Yes, and you can get mad at heroin pushers and really show you're upset about something like that.

But you can't be as mistaken as picking on Dan Radler or somebody who then you get kind of delighted in.

I think that was fine.

Really, I think so.

I mean, I think it's, you know, the main thing, I try to tell everybody that you've got a personality.

Tell me about a personality.

Yeah, yeah.

Who else?

Damn you.

Kisses.

Oh, yes.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Yeah.

That's right.

Now, all the rest are on the line.

How the hell do they help us?

Well, of course, basically, most of the others are light.

And it's not...

It's not...

And he had made an arrangement with the President that Colgate, he's a member of the Board of Trustees, he went up there, that he said, I will not know if you're going to allow here this confrontation over development.

Everybody had to stand up for one children against the war.

The President said, I agree.

Fifteen minutes before he went on, the President said, I'm sorry, but I was unable to resist the

and they're gonna go ahead and do it.

At that point, rockers should have left the camp.

Who the hell wants to be out of this room?

Robby.

In terms of personalities, Robby makes a ton of hours.

Huh?

Wages aren't ours.

Both of you.

Like Joe?

Right.

Romney comes across as a, as a zealot.

Sincere.

And I think he's put down as sincere and trying.

But at the margin of ability, that's the other thing.

How about Volker?

He's a tight end governor, you know.

How about, you got Alton Farber around there, is he one?

He's not in the interview, I'm sorry.

Now, well, in the business community, he's recognized as a pretty effective advocate, I think.

I think so.

Yeah.

He's got quite a lot of confidence.

There's I can size it up.

But as far as personalities are concerned, there's no standout.

And by now, you know, presidential temper ought to be cropping up.

Hard enough.

I think one of those, the only one for you is presidential.

It just came to me, there are only two.

One is, of course, Tom.

And the other is Richardson.

Richardson's a classic, different style.

Richardson, however, Richardson's not weak.

No, and I think he's a widower Wilson type.

In a certain time in the country, I would guess,

that Richardson would be very appealing.

I think he would have been.

I'm not sure.

I'm just not sure.

That's it, they're breaking into the others.

They've got quite a ghetto.

Well, and the people that are in it are very dedicated.

Yeah, that's true.

It's like people that are in boys' lunch.

Now, thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. President, Mr. President, I'd like to meet Mr. Stephanie.

Well, how are you?

Very good.

They have water.

This is very good.

Why don't we show them again?

This is a better picture.

Here we are.

You just walk like this, right?

Yeah, we got this all set up.

Well, Mr. President, this is our advisory committee, and Mr. Phillips is the chairman of it.

I've seen him run back and say that he's taking them all outside after they're all in position to go to class.

Well, I want to tell you that I'm delighted to have the chance to see all of you personally.

I'm sorry they all can't come in here.

I mean, all of them.

A lot of them were taken before.

But are you having a good meeting here at that?

How many of you have been in Washington before?

How many of you have been to a jamboree?

Have you had a jamboree since you've been scouted?

No, I mean, you know, they go there five years, you know.

Oh, you've probably missed.

I just remembered when I was in the general league way back.

I remember when Irvine, Atlanta, she helped our team to try to reach the stand in 1954.

And then about 15 years later, I, uh, you know, five years later, uh, I recall we had one up in Stonyport.

We were 50,000 scouts, uh, all.

They light candles at the end, which is one of the most impressive things you've probably heard about.

But I'm certainly grateful for the leadership that you have provided for our many explorers.

How old are you?

What is all your age group here?

The oldest, how old do you mean to be?

You're 21?

18.

About at that age group, right?

14 to 21.

Right, I'm 19.

14 to 21.

So let's give them something to be happy with.

And we're going to give them, for individual photographs and pictures that I have of them.

The two leaders.

This office has the seal and the sealer here, the presidential seal.

And these are the presidential complex with the seal on them.

So I have to give you each one of them.

We have a pretty girl to take you out.

All right.

You refer to yourself as an explorer, right?

It's a brand new way of saying this, right?

Meaning it's seven through six.

How many young ladies do you think you have with the explorers?

Well, right now, we've just expanded the other half of them.

And I think that's the thing.

I don't know if that's going to pay for this particular function.

They come out of Girl Scouts?

No, these are explorers.

Explorer.

Yeah, that's the...

Allowing them to become explorers.

They can't do it in a team.

No.

Yeah, what is it?

Explorers.

Explorers, that's right, of course.

I understand, I understand.

You're not really

There's three phases of it.

The oldest, which is the sea-sky, or sea-exploring, the three-dress, which is the military, and the nation, which is you, the nation, the border, and the sea.

And it's great entertainment.

Excuse me, sir.

What's your state?

Rochester, New York.

Rochester.

I'm going to be up there in July.

We were supposed to come earlier, the regional briefing, and it got snowed out.

So I didn't know it was going to be sometime in the middle of July or so.

I'm going to be up here.

It's a beautiful city.

Bill will be to your left Mr. President.

and there will be some musical fans there, an announcement, and some other music, and you'll walk down the steps there.

Commander Campbell will direct you to the second chute.

We'll just go right up to the platform, sir.

Bill will go directly to the microphone and present you to this platform.

Just basically an appreciation of your time and gesture.

Just a few sentences, and then you respond, and we'll depart.

Smash.

Oh,

Well, come on in.

I'll do this for you.

Isn't that the first voice they see?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Thank you.

Talk all day.

Four to eight hours.

Oh, God, she's quick.

Right on time.

Let's go to the corner, too.

Yeah, let's go, too.

He was waxing up.

Yeah.

They're one of the few Americans, well, they're not really one of the many young kids in America that are okay.

We tend to get to them and obsess over these next-generation kids.

I'm sure there's an awful lot of them that are affected by others, young people all the time.

These are different people than kids.

It's quite a good organization to see a nice place like this.

You have to do a good job of the flag and all that sort of thing.

I'm all for it, absolutely.

Took a year to get rid of the shears.

Got a lot of merit badges done as we've made people, scouts didn't stay with us that long.

We moved back from San Julio.

Lieutenant Floresville didn't even have a scout troop.

The kids all worked, too.

Oh, they didn't have time.

Oh, there's four others.

Four of them, indeed.

Well, tell me first, how did they get on with your testimony?

I thought, well, it's an antagonistic committee, obviously.

It's very obvious.

It's very obvious that it's antagonistic.

I thought the testimony went well.

The story of the early edition of the Star is a good story.

It says...

They sit there, they nitpick the dance.

Right, right.

They just sit and say, well, why does Mr. San Bernardino get more than the cop?

Right.

All of a sudden, they're like, this is interesting.

You know, we're here.

We're here.

And Sam Gibbons was a nitpicker, you know.

Sam Gibbons from Florida, he's a Democrat.

I don't know.

Oh, he's no good.

But on the Republican side, I must say, they all did exceedingly well.

They sure did.

And John Washington thought he did it.

John Washington couldn't do it.

I don't have any problems about the following one.

Louisiana Wax Wipers.

It couldn't have been more precious.

It couldn't have been better.

Burt, one of my assistants, made a demagogic general statement about, you know, he wouldn't know how this was going to be delivered.

It wasn't going to be delivered to an institutional corporation, or it wasn't going to be delivered by SLED.

It's all about the fact that all the manpower is in the same car, you know.

And that means just a matter of class AQ.

But I thought it went quite well.

We were just...

There was a lot more support there, John.

As I said last night to you, Mills has a committee and you've got the country.

Well, I think that's right.

By God, he knows this.

And Ford is playing a very hard game with him.

He's... Jerry Ford, he's...

I think he should, don't you?

He should.

Get a vote.

And that's what I said.

I did step out of the blue.

and, uh, was interviewed, uh... Would you prefer it?

Honestly, I've got to hold it until 12 p.m. because he's got to start the code and start everything else.

I ran into a doctor out there.

You know him, W. Harold?

Harold.

You know him?

Harold.

I don't even know him.

You know, we deducted over 50 pounds of heroin custom stamps in the last week.

And that translates back to about 3,000 pounds.

I mean, let's call it, let's call it, let's call it, let's call it,

Now, I don't see what the procedure is, John.

The procedure is such and such that they're the law enforcement.

That's what they work for.

Oh, yes.

But he's over the secret service.

He's over the customs.

He's over the wind.

John, I'm sitting here talking to John Conley.

I was wondering, Mark, since we're expanding that from the food state, if we should have maybe...

He was talking about this capture of the crash area here.

Wait a minute, wait a minute.

No, don't do it.

I'd rather receive, if it's on this problem with drugs, I'd rather receive it because you know more about it.

He's got it.

He says that he could come.

He's got a terrible cold, you know, and so forth, which he just been under.

He says he would rather receive you to come on this occasion than he could.

Because I'd be at the committee for a team.

You're on it.

You are a captain right now in the department, yeah.

Well, I'm... Yeah.

How many people are you going to have in total?

Oh, that's all right, that'll take, the room will take that easy enough.

And tell them that if they're too crowded in that one room, to put a blue room there, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, fine, I'll talk to them.

What, what, the only reason I'm sitting here, you're, I'm heading where the service secretaries all the, all the service chiefs,

Well, I have to be back to committee at 10.

You do?

Well, I have to leave at 9.30, I guess.

See you then.

Yeah, and of course, I'll be there too.

Let me suggest this idea to the teacher.

It might be good idea.

If it isn't good, then put it out.

I just think the idea...

He had the top people there.

He couldn't come at 8, 8 o'clock, and then leave.

That's why I thought that you wanted to prepare for the committee.

Then you leave in time.

How's that?

That's why I'm leaving now.

You have to check the hell out.

No, no, I don't.

I don't want you to.

No, I don't.

He had these people around him.

Yeah, that worked.

It worked.

You could come.

See him.

I'll tell you what I love about your job.

I'm too excited to do everything.

We've got to put it at the highest level.

So next week, the House will be more money, new legislation and so forth, and we'll be with a presidential hat in hand in charge.

So, we're going to put it up here.

So that's what we want to do.

They know you're there.

I'll come because I've created this.

I don't want to keep Bill gone, but I'm going to talk to Jack Irwin and be sure he keeps the pressure on the Turks because they have to make their decision to sue their farmers by the end of this month, by June 30th, for the crop next year.

And what we'll check that we've been able to do, hell, we figure if we have to, we can buy the whole crop and let's free them from hell.

I don't know what's going to happen.

What is that?

Well, I don't know, except what Bill says.

Now, let me ask you this.

Who is that?

Are you going to have a kiss with him there?

Yes.

That's good.

Now, I just talked to John about this, you know, and he's hot for buying that crap from the church.

And Errol is going to be there.

You know, the state drags its feet on this.

And I want Henry to know in advance that, God damn it, that's what we're going to do.

Don't you agree?

Do you see any objection to it?

I don't know.

They say there's political problems and the rest, but I think our political problem is infinitely greater on this, John.

And Churchill.

Yeah.

This basically, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, another meeting, another meeting, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see.

Well, then we can have the second meeting on the problems abroad.

I get your point.

All right, all right.

But be sure Henry knows that when that comes up, we're to lean against the, and against the foreign policy guys.

We are going to lean to the economy position.

Fair enough.

From our investigation, we buy the whole crop for less than $3 million, and might even not spend more than that for a two-year period.

While I find a substitute crop, oh my God, this is peanuts compared to what it costs us to try to interdict the damn stuff, to intercept it, and prosecute these smugglers.

And if we buy the whole crop and drive the opium stride, then we belong to them, of course.

I think we've worked up some of these big range.

But this one and 50 pounds of pure arrow that you've captured in the last week are incredible seizures.

This represents about three tons of raw opium.

Three tons of it.

Now, you have Puerto Rico there.

Well, we've got Puerto Rico, Florida, and maybe the others in New York.

I think we've got to be real tough.

Understand, the addict is a different matter.

You treat them.

But the push, who is not an addict, in other words,

There's some who are pushing because they're trying to help their customers.

But I've got these people, you know, that make money out of this kind of thing.

They're refining, really transporting, and these are elaborate schemes that they go to.

We've got to smuggle this stuff into this country.

That's unbelievable.

Of course, it's such a normal sacrifice.

Well, we ought to be able to begin to get some information out of New York, too, because this much of what we see ought to be brought to market somewhere.

Unless they've got a tremendous inventory, and of course what they'll start doing is cutting it more.

They'll dilute it more to make it go further.

My God, I've seen this much of uncut heroin.

This is purely uncut stuff.

Why, it's got to affect this market.

So, out of it, we made something might develop.

Some of these people might start swinging and see if they can't get it.

The price goes too high.

It's got to have an effect.

How was this done?

I haven't gotten the details.

I don't know.

But they watched this plane, one of the planes that came in from South America.

It was a jet.

It had a special compartment built into it.

And the customs people

stayed on them and watched it.

And five days later, I mean, captured 13 of them, most of them South Americans, who were importing this stuff.

And that is why I brought the boys in.

I was talking to Peter Siege about it today.

We were gonna try to give them some kind of, I don't know, like a war medal for a meritorious service or something to try to... You break a stone, like you said,

I like the man that did it.

Yes.

Customs officers.

Because these are three of the biggest halls in the history

Customs Commission.

How many do you want?

How many of you want to bring them in?

Bring them in.

That's great.

You bring them in.

Let me get their names.

We'll just bring them in.

We need to give them a certificate.

I got a presidential thing.

I need a certificate of appreciation for outstanding service.

That's a great sign.

That'll do.

God damn, that's a reward to people who really like that.

Get some pictures made and you can recount the stories about these captains who made money because I think you can also write up the story or something like that.

I hear some of these out here.

What is the situation with regard to all of this?

Sure.

I guess there isn't a hell of a lot more to talk about there.

Now, it's not a great deal to me.

I thought it was pretty good that the crisis was over.

It is that the situation now is cool, that at the present time we still have a long-range problem of, as you pointed out, of our opening up markets and making more competitive and so forth and so on.

In this way, we must not do anything

because of international monetary fluctuation, which hurts our economy at all.

Is that a basic cost?

Yes, sir.

Is that what you want to say?

Yes, sir.

I really think, and I'm not prepared to recommend it, but I really think, as you go along, you ought to give some thought, we all ought to give some thought as to how much we want to push

How do you want to push the formation of the European community?

Now, we all go along assuming that this is going to be good.

Well, I'm not sure it's going to be good.

I'm not a bit sure it's going to be good.

I am convinced that the European community, when it's formed, is going to be formed as the third force in the world.

They're going to try to develop, in the first place, there will be a bigger trading block than we are.

In many ways, it's going to be more industrious than we are.

They're going to be more protectionist than we are, because each one of the individuals is going to assume that he doesn't have to do anything to protect himself.

And yet, collectively, they're going to be a bigger trading force in the world markets than we are.

They're not going to build the defenses.

They're still going to look to us to carry the burden of the defenses, but they are going to create their own currency.

And they're going to do it not to supplement, but to supplant the dollar.

They're envious of us.

They don't want the economic domination of the United States.

They don't want to be reliant on the dollar.

And they're envious as hell.

Now, I don't care what anybody tells them.

That's the way they're going to react.

And they're going to try to get in a position where they can drive us through the wall as fast as they can.

I don't even need 10 years to do it.

It's the national mandate.

I know I do it all myself all the time.

You know, we were all very European to be on the Marshall Plan.

Very European to be on the Marshall Plan.

Well, anyway, I'm not so sure about that, sir.

I'm not sure what I'm starting to realize so far.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

That's the British.

They have a hell of a problem.

Maybe we ought to be in reunion with the British.

I'm not sure we ought to be in reunion with the British, and the Japanese, and the Australians, and maybe a few in Thailand, and close to us, and in the Left Bureau.

We've got defense problems, I know, in Russia, in proximity to Germany, and all of this involved.

But I think he can arrive at...

I think you've got a good point here.

Well, I think it's worth subscribing.

I just don't think we ought to just go along and blindly assume that the formation of the European community is going to be in the best interest of the United States.

We're going to be back here if we're not killed.

With Canada, who again is jealous of this license, and with South America, Mexico and South America, that we have no real community measures with now.

They resent us.

They're laughing at us.

They live in a different world, under different orders, different standards than what the Western Europeans do.

We're based in the Western European economy.

We're not Mexicans.

We're not Indians.

We're not South Americans.

We've got a few in Texas and California, true or not.

So I don't want us to be tied economically just to this Western Hemisphere, because I don't think it's an argument.

But anyway.

I'll get off that subject to say to you that there's nothing for us to do.

April was the second biggest month in history, and over 100% bigger than April a year ago.

But anyway, at some point, you can go to the point where you have too many countries floating, and the American businessman, as the vessels overseas, will get disturbed.

He'll not know what to do.

what's in store for them.

It will begin to affect our investments overseas, and thus the foreign currencies that our American companies earn, which is now becoming very considerable item.

But this happened to us in the 30s before Bretton Woods, because during the Depression days,

you couldn't get any stability of currencies.

Every currency was floating with respect to every other currency.

And almost every day, you'd have a different value for every currency in the world.

So that things were so unstable in an international monetary sense that nobody wanted to do any trading, because they didn't want to do any trading for them.

And you almost went back to a barter system.

Now, we can't go quite that far, but so far as few of these currencies floating, it doesn't really help us.

And we want the whole monetary system to grow up, and I don't think it's going to.

I don't think it's about to.

They don't have any place to go but us, and we might as well make the most of it.

The dollar is a reserve currency.

I do think in our own interest, not in their interest, but in our own interest, we have to improve our trade position because there are basically three things that we're not going to change.

I assume we're not going to change.

But I hope when Willie Brant comes over here next month, this month, this month, this month, that you will, in the middle of June, that you will just say to him, you know, you all said, well, that's $16 million.

You say you've got $4 million that you want.

You've got $16 million to reserve.

It's better shape than we are.

You contribute approximately 4% of your gross national product to defense.

We contribute $9 million.

And we think you ought to pay some more for those troops that you have.

We just think you ought to help pay for them.

We don't mind doing it.

We're not going to lessen our average for the common defense.

But we sure think you ought to pay more.

It's not going to be easy for you.

Any more than it's easy for us.

But when we get to the point where you have an international crisis, as you call it, versus Lamar, then it's easier for you to do it than us.

And I think you probably know who's with him.

But we have to assume that three things are going to happen.

Number one, we have to maintain for the foreseeable future our military commitments around the world.

No one else can do that but us.

Now, this doesn't mean that other nations can't help pay for it in a more equitable fashion, because they can.

But secondly, we have to recognize that we're a nation of travelers.

and we're going to have a net outflow of money which runs about three billion dollars a year on the church and you're creating more apartments that's right and you really can't stop it no real effective way of shopping so that's going to be an outflow the third point is we give a lot of money uh and we permit a lot of gifts

This is bonds for Israel.

This is the only general-purpose bonds in the world that are sold with no taxes on them or anything.

It's a gift.

But politically, you can't stop that.

That's going to continue.

I'm not so sure.

Well, maybe.

I don't know.

But anyway, that's an area.

And then the foreign investments.

I think at least for the present, we've got to continue to permit our business to make investments overseas.

Now this runs a lot of them.

This runs into a lot of money every year.

But these four areas, we probably are not going to change right now.

That being true, we're going to continue to have, in my judgment, increasingly bigger deficits in our official funds, balance payments, unless we do make some very strong moves to improve our trading position, be it Canada, Japan, the economy, the market, agriculture, commodities, and other things.

We've got to make a difference somewhere.

There's no other way to do it.

And this is in our interest, not just to say we've got a balanced payment for the surplus, but in order to provide the jobs here in the economic expansion.

Because this is what trade really means to us.

But beyond that, I don't think we concern ourselves, nor you should concern yourself with this international market.

Let me ask you again.

You've got defense.

We're Asian travelers.

We're investors.

and then the fourth is the gifts, the public gifts.

Well, we do such things as this.

Yesterday I told Bob Woodruff to get the world back to the states and voting, all along to Bolivia.

Well, I did it for this reason.

The World Bank has an unwritten rule that they will offer rules to nations that have exported properties without compensation.

But believe me, I said that I had a lot of properties without compensation.

They've taken it from the Gulf.

They've taken it from the Middle East.

They've taken it from another company, the three major expropriations.

They haven't paid them a dime.

Now they're saying to us, they're saying to the United States, to the Inter-American Development Bank, the World Bank, well, we don't pay you enough with all these oil properties provided.

The United States insists and sees that we get a loan to the pipeline to Argentina so we can sell this gas.

We don't pay you enough over a 20-year period of 3% interest.

Well, that's a general.

That's enough.

That's a general statement.

That's an expropriation department.

If we don't see that they get to the level to build a pipeline, so they can make a hell of a lot of money after 48 hours.

But anyway, I said, just abstain.

I said, we need to fight this bump now.

I said, you're allowed to.

I mean, by all means.

We're still doing this and that.

But these things keep coming up.

I'm going to start firing the computers.

At some point, we've got to have a decision about how we're going to react to these things.

We held it up for three days to begin with, to try to send work.

And I just told them to abstain, to be damn sure they got the message.

And I'm going to have lunch with Bob tomorrow.

And they try to make him insist on a policy that no World Bank loan will be made to any country that has expropriated properties and without some definite plans of compensation.

And I think that's on the track.

That's good.

Including that debt opportunity.

These other children are out, all of the children.

They're playing their, right now they're saying they're not going to pay, but I doubt that they will.

I'd like to program the kids and the teens in the future.

Let me come back to the domestic economy more.

I've got to talk about, did you have a chance to sort of break more charges?

Oh, yeah.

We went over to the Archer.

Archer, let me see.

All right.

I feel so strongly, John, that you're right.

We never got to put, let me put it this way, knowing nothing about these subjects,

I think the dollar is sound only because of the American economy.

The best way to keep the dollar sound is to make the American dollar and the American economy more sound.

You can't keep the dollar sound.

Now, how do you make the American economy sound?

Well, my God, we've got to do it.

We've got to do it.

First of all, we've got to keep the inflation under control as much as we can.

But we've got to see this economy moves up.

And it must be done.

That means more productivity and reduction of all these other things.

If it doesn't move, the difficult thing is that the American Congress react to the people.

We've got an invitation.

They will do things.

We will be faced with a situation that could be very, very bad in the economy.

We'll move down the road.

I don't know why.

You know what's going to happen.

Now, we have one problem we're going to have in the very near future, and which I'd like for you to think about.

I asked her earlier to roll her and see what happened.

There's a bill that I vetoed last year, and it didn't change much.

It's a bill provided by the Public Service Office.

It's in the lookup of the EPA.

We have our, and our, we have a bill as a substitute for it.

It's a better bill.

It provides a $330,000 public service job, but not this huge one.

This would cost $2,000.

Done.

We need to face the proposition where the Congress will turn down our manpower and share it with them and send it down here for signature or a veto.

Their bill.

Their bill providing for $8.5 or $2,000 in public service jobs.

I personally think it's the wrong law to do anything wrong.

Correction and all that shit.

I don't believe this.

We've got to take a decision.

See, these jobs, I think these jerks aren't safe and so forth and so on.

Maybe we should allow them to see the logic.

But the main thing that I'd ask for a check is to see

In the event that that is what we're faced with, whether we ought to consider going along and use it for the purpose of trying to make a dent

Not in the unemployment in terms of its real sense, but in terms basically of the .

I personally believe that if we didn't have the problems with Congress and elections and so forth, that if I applied for an estate at six or six and a half or even go up to seven, they'd probably get about that much as they could be coming for a year or two.

Politically, I have feared

that if it stays at six or goes up to six and a half or so for the balance of the issue here, that then it may become a political issue that will become so

embedded in the public mind, because it will be very difficult, even if it starts to come down, if it stays too long, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Now, what I mean is that it may be that we will have to consider, and I haven't decided that, but I want you to think about it politically, because I've got the money, kind of politically.

What if maybe we take this jackass bill, assuming that it can provide the jobs, maybe for the purpose of something to reduce

the unemployment number .

And when we come in the next year, the economy's moving along .

And having started in that college, that's basically just something to think about.

The other side of the coin .

And all of this is important.

I still believe, or I believe that, and, uh, economists and economists will come up with challenges and just, all right, now, do inflation hold to the economy?

Inflation, inflation is not going to, uh, to, in my view, unless on that point I say it's, uh,

Inflation is going to continue to be a concern.

The fact that in the first quarter, and going frankly through the month of April, it was one half of what it was last year, the rate of inflation is highly significant.

I have looked at the wholesale prices of each other's bodies, and what is the least

somewhat encouraging about that is that, as far as manufacturing prices are concerned, they did not rise.

They were pretty much settled.

This is food.

Food came up and ran with the food that made all the farmers.

If you reflect on the farmers, you get that.

They don't have that problem.

Farmers, again, they don't have money.

Anyway, now that I'm saying this, let us suppose

looking at this economy and where it matters to the economy.

I suppose if we, if we see, if we move along, and we'll take another look at the numbers, I'd say the difference in the name is not showing.

And if it's moving along, that's not a question.

It's looking at our home,

where we have a chance to manage the germs of stimulus.

And looking at the equation, of course, we have a question as to what we would do if that happened.

Now, our career, of course, you know, is just totally committed to setting up a wage price for it.

You don't want to stay at an income policy plan.

I've got faith in it.

I personally have a strong conviction that on that, that all this preaching and so forth, some people cannot work.

And I'm willing to put the thing straight in the eye if we have to at a later time.

But I think temporizing it, temporizing it at this point is not the right thing.

I know that there are things that are political in Manchester.

to be very, very transitory, if after five to six months, not that inflation continues to go up.

We can slowly hold it, maybe next year.

When it's too late, I don't know whether it works or not.

I think we might seriously consider it, if we have a continued problem.

If it were to have the economy in school, the inflation is the issue.

Just slightly on the wage price freeze.

I'm not trying to get you to give any answers now, but what I want you to do, because you will see this from a political standpoint, as well as from an economic standpoint, we've got to deploy a political economy.

have it like all the weapons we've got, and remember this one thing, that there's nothing more important than having this economy look good in November, I mean not in November, but September and October of next year.

I've been talking about the international front, we're going to look pretty good.

We're going to look good because we're going to have the American law taken on.

We will have made progress in the China problem, probably.

But the war, sir, that is, sir, either of the other two will be ahead of them and we'll kind of end it up, but it's going to be ahead of them or we give it away.

You know, in this deal with the Russians, we have an extremely insensitive problem because the Russians have learned nothing.

I'm just aware of it, but it's hard for us to have it.

But the deal we have, the deal that we've been making with Russians, and I tell that to many people, I mean, we're going to free some offensive weapons in exchange for the evening, and we're going to put it on the permanent thing.

We've been getting permanent, it's ready to go, and they need that very badly for their deal with the Germans.

Or really, if they screw this up, we try to be able to pull that back.

So there's a chance for a deal with the Russians.

There are things going on with China then.

But I'm not telling you about who.

But there are extremists in the American system.

What I'm here to say is that next year is the start of this whole situation.

could turn out to be the only major issue of the campaign next year.

Because basically, people say, well, sure.

So you're going to have more initiative.

People will be stealing about something else.

And they've got this, but by my God, what about the economy?

Now, with that in mind,

I think that we've got to look at a way to play this game to look good by the time the election comes around.

And we cannot think in terms, we just cannot think in terms of, well,

What's going to happen to the individual models today?

It's five years from now.

What's going to happen to the election models?

You know, I had to take on, as I did, I took on Johnson, not personally, but I took on the $28 million deficit that he had in 1968.

You know, if I could have done exactly the same thing, for Christ's sakes, you know what I mean?

He was seeing to it that the economy was goddamn good in the election.

Right?

That's why he did it.

Now, sure, if that was the time of full employment, you're on $20 million next.

But he was being that insured that if Dan here worked, the war would have been such a horrible drag after he won the election.

Now, what we come on now, we are Dan Poole's.

I think we're Dan Poole's.

We want to do the right thing.

But we're damn fools to allow, to put ourselves in the way, either to put ourselves in the way, or to fail to do those things with the economy that we could do, that will assure our not having a negative issue on the economy.

And I would put it in a larger context.

Or for reasons that the Democratic nominee, John, is willing to be either

It isn't going to be Stu Jackson.

And it isn't going to be Walter Ramos.

I mean, they, uh, Stu is going to get a hell of a rough fight over Stu Van Gogh.

You know, I mean, that's the, that's the fact.

Due to the fact that, uh, it's not because of Vietnam, it's because he's hard-line on Russia.

Although, he's very hard-line.

He'd be in a whole lot of fight tonight.

He's, well, will be hard-line, you know what I mean?

He could be president, so could Stu.

As far as these other three are concerned, just speaking of the, speaking first of the foreign policy, speaking second of the economy, speaking third of the school attitude, her messages with regard to violence and so forth, all three of those guys

Sir, I think we've got to be prepared to do what we're supposed to do.

You see, this is not happening.

There, sir.

That's the way I feel about it.

I don't know how you talk about it.

I don't even see what I do.

I agree with you.

I was going to say, I can't talk this way to Charles.

I can't hurt him.

I started this.

Basically, you started this.

We have to do whatever we need to do.

to be sure that if you get rid of it, that none of these straight on.

That's what's important.

Because what's going to happen for the next four years?

They're going to run a hundred.

I've got my organization.

I've tried to stimulate them to generate some ideas for you.

I've insisted now that all our top people have, by Friday and noon,

some ideas every single week.

And we're going to have, if this comes up, you know, I don't know if we're going to produce anything, but at least try to stimulate them to think about it.

Think about what's happening in their area.

It's going to benefit them.

One parent said he said, I don't know whether it's up to him, whether it's the children's opportunities that you've got back.

We've talked about it for the organization thing.

Where is it that we...

i know you know i agree with you on the wage and price board the only reason for a wage and price board

is to try to be able to say, well, it didn't work.

But if you do that, then you have to be prepared to take the next step, which is to go all the way.

And you ought not to institute, unless you're prepared, unless you're prepared.

I have no question about that, because it's not going to work.

It's not going to work.

It has to work for itself.

Never.

And then you hurt yourself more than you help.

Now, the question I can turn over to my group, which I haven't discussed with you all, is whether you all are going to do it right now.

put on a freeze right now, way too pricey to fight inflation, believing that people will get so sick by next year that you didn't remove it.

That's one possibility.

The other possibility is to let this thing go.

Freeze, freeze.

And if we let it go until next year, until it's late enough in the year,

where they don't know whether or not it's going to work, or not work, or whether they're indecisive.

And then, the only issue you have is a moment ago.

Now, those are the only two alternatives that I've seen on the inflation front.

Because you're not going to get a current on the inflation front.

If you look at the way the price frees up, what are the benefits you're going to have on the unemployment front?

There are two issues.

One is unemployment.

The other is inflation.

Well, there will be divided opinions.

I appreciate that.

But it probably would have a good effect on employment, and it would have a good effect on industry and business.

I think it would prove something that they don't now believe.

They don't now believe that you're going to take the hard steps to fight inflation.

So they're reluctant to make expenditures expand.

They think inflation is going to continue to be with us.

This is what's going to hurt us on interest rates.

And they're just waiting to push up these interest rates.

But if this happens to any appreciable extent, you may not have a lot of choice about what you do.

Because if interest rates go up too much, it's going to spike the whole billet.

It's going to spike a great part of this economy almost overnight.

Now, I said that to these bankers in Europe.

They're delighted.

They're mad as hell.

American banker.

He drove me up.

He's a populist.

Dave Rockefeller and I.

for a long talk, and I said, now Dave, and he said, well, I want you to know why I did so.

I said, I know why you did it, but I said, I want you to know why I said what I did.

And I said, if you raise it again, I'm not gonna like it again.

I said, I'm not holding the stockholders, and I'm not going to need directors.

And I said, I've been a stockholder and a director of the bank, and I know you won't make money.

But I said, that ain't the position I'm in.

I said, I'm secretary of the treasury.

And I said, I'm trying to do what I can to help the president.

maintaining some reasonable control over inflation at the same time stimulating this economy to higher interest rates, the worst damn thing to happen to us.

And I said, you're not going to get him to like it, you're not going to get me to like it.

I said, now just that simple.

I was arguing about it with Arthur.

Arthur basically advised us, yes.

He doesn't know.

Well, he, you know, he gets it.

Well, he gets over there.

They really do.

Well, they all get to talk to these central bankers.

They all get into this because of our low interest rates.

And then they go, Christ, they're still too goddamn hot.

They really are.

They're too goddamn hot.

They sure are.

But he gets it.

And well, a professor like that, let's just be frank, but a professor like that, they won't talk any abstract.

This is what he did.

So just as long as you trade, you die.

And when it comes to policy and so forth and so on, he's hip to all this stuff.

And he and I have had very hard talks about it.

And he knows you're not going to get it if you wait until policy is born.

And I've told him he's not going to get it.

And I offer a reason, John, is that I know an argument that's not true.

If I take that step, I've got to go all the way.

And if we're going to go all the way, I've got to go all the way.

Take one step.

I'm not going to screw around.

That's right.

And I mean, if you do it, you ought to go down here overnight.

So that they can't have us fill up.

They know if you go to the waste price board, that you're just setting the stage.

So everyone will get the prices right.

See, the breeze is something else.

You can let the breeze on.

That's right.

And the difficulty is...

You have no enforcement in here.

We have no enforcement.

Captain, it really is only hope.

The problem is that if you took off, if you laid home for a reason and took it off before the election, everybody would immediately get their prices and wages up.

You see, you may hit them again, so they try to recover, and they recover too fast.

before next fall.

Well, we don't decide about that.

No, that's not true.

That's what you remember.

We're thinking of everything.

Yes, sir.

In terms of the stimulating the economy, do you think it's a job well?

Yes, sir.

In honor of this, we may have decided.

Let me suggest at this moment, and I'll think about it a great deal more, but if you have to do it on the basis that you're going to use it to try to hire those who are wealthy, those who are mobile, and the American people,

that we can try to get people to see work as fast as possible and put in paid jobs, maybe write a license to send it on that basis, or at least that's where you're going to start.

Right.

But you can also do it yourself.

And if there's always some hope, reduce your welfare growth.

So you can.

to at least think about that.

But I will think about this bill and talk to John about it.

And I think about the tax that we got into this morning.

The tax that we got into this morning.

If you're better off, I mean, you can fight the bull straight off and say, I'll protect you.

I mean, it's got to be done.

I mean, just slap on an entire list.

You know what I mean?

It's just a race only hell of all your tax guys over there.

I don't care.

I don't know what it is.

I'm not going to call on anyone on some sort of basis.

And it's going to be increasing, as the mayor said.

But where you get property tax relief, you've got to get property tax relief so that that's totally revenue sharing.

You know, one of the problems with revenue sharing is that it doesn't offer to the average person property tax relief because we give a bonus to those cities that make greater tax efforts, so it's an incentive for them to raise tax revenue.

That isn't good, is it?

No, it really isn't.

But we've got to do that this morning.

That's it.

And, well, I just said that they asked if this could be used to reduce taxes.

And I said, yes, if they reduce taxes on homes, I think it ought to be a very worthwhile objection.

I said, frankly, one of the things that's troubling this administration is the property tax on homes.

And I thought you'd let me say that next year.

One day I'll do one.

I want some property tax.

So that you can just come out and say, you know what I mean?

If you know what I'm saying, it's not a complex problem, it's simple.

That's how we say it.

That's how you reduce your property taxes.

And the average person, even though we know he pays more in indirect taxes, it's that bill that comes in twice a year, and he has to pay it, and the old lady's got to go down to her large hand, and you're inside 70% of the folks on their property.

Right?

And the people that don't own their property, they're all against us.

Well, that's correct, most of them.

That's correct.

I think the way we're going to have to do it is just give them credit.

Have to give them credit on their gasoline tax.

Or their property taxes.

Great.

That's how we're going to have to do it.

We can find a way to do that.

I don't know if we can do that without congressional authority.

I don't think we can.

But all we have to do is vote.

We'll see what it costs, but we may have to raise taxes.

We may have to put our value in taxes.

We may have to institute a holding tax.

I'm really worried about that.

If the people are convinced that you're really trying to get a dollar's worth of value for a dollar spent, it'll send an increase in taxes.

If, particularly with the one hand, you raise taxes in one area, which they don't fee them, and take it off in another area where they do fee them, then we've got to get a property tax relief.

That's correct.

And it's going to cost the same fee if we give you $600 or $1,000 credit, or $1,000 deduction for your taxes, make a total deduction if you want to, and cost it all the way out in the city, then we'll put over a back-handed tax.

But we're thinking, I'm thinking about all of these things, and we're not going to have to do anything about any of these, all these investigations and so forth.

I think maybe we'll probably need help more.

I've got to probably set it up to maybe be out there for a few days.

I don't know if we can do that without congressional authority.

I don't think we can.

But all you have to do is vote.

Where do we get the money for it?

Well, we'll see.

We'll cost it out and see what it costs, but we may have to raise taxes.

I think we may have to.

We may have to put our value in the tax.

We may have to institute the holding tax.

I'm really worried about that.

If the people are convinced that you're really trying to get a dollar's worth of value for a dollar spent, it'll send an increase in taxes.

If, particularly with the one hand, you raise taxes in one area, which they don't fee them, you take it off in another area where they do fee them.

That's correct.

And we buy that property tax, and we investigate it and think about it.

That's correct.

And it's going to cost us X billion if we give you $600, or $1,000 credit, or $1,000 deduction for your taxes, make a total deduction.

If you want to, we'll cost it all out and see.

Then we'll put over value-added taxes.

But we're thinking about all of these things.

And we're not going to have to do anything about any of these, all these investigations and so forth.

I think maybe we'll probably need help more.

I've got to probably set it up to maybe be out there for a few days and have everybody.

I watch it constantly.

I noticed, though, that the Department of School of Finance and their economists came out here the other day in the first of the spring.

What did they say?

Well, they basically say that the economy is moving.

It's moving on a solid base.

They're predicting $1.53 trillion.

And they predicted employment by next fall will be down to 5%.

Or next year, they said down 5%.

That's by January.

And they didn't say what month.

But they said it would be down to 5.5 by the end of this year.

That means the right movement.

You've all said it.

It just moves in the right direction.

It just doesn't go up.

That's right.

It would just have the right movement before the end of February.

There's 7%.

I don't know.

But nevertheless, I was a parent.

All I know is this.

I know that in war and in politics and in the economy, it's all the same.

You've always got to plan for the worst, and hope for the best, and talk for the best.

How I ever talk on feed is that all I'm confident with, is that all the economy is going to go on, so we're not strong scientifically.

The question of retail sales are strong, housing is still strong.

The Dock and Borough Hill survey is extremely interesting.

So 35% increase in funds for construction.

There are other signs that move a lot in the other direction, but generally speaking, the indicators are stronger.

And I always see the copy of the top economist for all of the works who go off that line.

Exactly.

His thoughts were in that direction.

Then, of course, you have the various kinds in the other direction.

It may be that we're on the brink of a movement.

And the real key to it, of course, is the confidence factor.

You never get that thing tipped.

And one of the areas where you've got it tipped, where we really haven't practiced, is California.

I just went to California.

you know, the importance of people with regard to the international, whether they will be, whether our climate will be cooperative.

Now, the moment that shifts, see, you, yeah, we've actually sent 10% of all the people in to the contact statement.

Now, that, that shifts.

I mean, then that money started to flow in, and your sales go up, and everything goes, and the economy moves, and things like that.

There's a hell of a lot of savings around the country.

There's a lot of money ready to go.

The question is whether people are going to have the confidence to spend it.

Once they start spending it, the inventories are down, I understand.

social is this all true yes well they are and these are things that are potential areas of growth i don't see anything really to be discouraged about i think we all will get a little discouraged from time to time because you know you always lurking in the back of your minds and thought well maybe we are wrong but i don't think so i was still right i mean i mean the plan is right

The market's doing exactly what I think the economy dictates it to.

It went down to about 900.

It's moving back up.

It's going to float in this area at 925.

Back down again, I think, until the rest of the economy catches up with it.

Yes, it will.

900 or better.

And by next year, I think it's going to be over 1,000.

That's going to be a very good sign.

First time in history where...

And they're just certain things.

Let's be prepared.

My whole view is on economic policy.

We want to do the right thing, of course.

But the other thing, as we approach this election, by God, we are not going to leave anything unturned.

We're not going to be very big heroes and lose because of the economy, right?

If we lose for other reasons, that's just too bad.

In other words, if we screw up the foreign policy, we deserve to lose.

That's what I think.

To lose all the power is just that stupidity.

Well, I agree.

We don't have to.

And we're not going to.

I still think we need to pick out a couple of entities.

The thing we need is a psychological solution.

Now, I've talked to many people.

I've talked to two or three.

And I discount for kindness some of their remarks, but they all say that among the people they've talked to, that the more us get tough attitude we had in Munich was music to their ears.

They said, this is great.

This is the greatest thing we've heard.

Now, I didn't think that's the issue.

and will, looking for some something in the foreign affairs scene.

And it could be related to domestic affairs.

And Pete, maybe it is abandoned.

Maybe it's against the Japanese.

Maybe it's against the Chinese.

It's down in the Congress down here.

Maybe there's some move you can take.

Let's pick out a couple of hymns that you show the American businessmen, and you are out to protect their innocence.

That means it's how big it is.

And you don't want to rock the international boat to do it.

But if you could put an automobile on Japanese automobiles for 90 days, until you could study the American automobile productive capacity or something like that.

Yeah, we've made it through God damn generous United States.

You don't have to think about it.

and didn't get any questions at all on the so-called Mayday arrest.

And I said, and I said, and he was surprised, and Ron would be surprised.

The bastards found out when they got home that they were wrong to keep talking about it.

He said, I wanted every one of those questions

I mean, I wanted them to be on that side, and I wanted them to be on the other side.

First, I think I said that.

Second point, however, I think this probably wasn't the time at the time, so maybe the next one.

It seems to me that the press, of course, I sort of know for the press conferences, it's not easy.

but I'm sort of known for being prepared, for being cool, for not getting flustered, for being generous, for being firm and so forth.

So I think just taking them all off and so forth, their life isn't that nice.

These nasty bastards in the press act that way for the president to act like the president.

Try this one.

About the third time I had a question about the May Day, you know, I think that

could well have been a time, and I certainly consider it the next time when I am personally capable of doing it.

I will still aim it toward the individual.

But to say, I look here, that's the third time that same question has been asked.

Let's understand, the great majority of the members of the press disagree with the matter of these so-called answers.

You have a right to your beliefs.

I have a right to mine.

I have the responsibility to see that this government continues to run.

I've got to meet that responsibility.

Anybody that comes to this city for the purpose of stopping this government and breaks the law is going to be arrested.

He said, now that's the law.

I'm going to hear about that.

Get a cracker out of that job.

I think that they do it.

What do you think?

I'm absolutely for it.

Yeah.

The disadvantage of that is that, of course, there are so many people, not people in the press, that paint the image that I'm a hell of a fighter, you know what I mean?

I'm mean, all that sort of thing.

I'm inclined to think that as far as that average television viewer is concerned, he sees the press conference being cool, composed, and stuff like that.

And I think they like that, up to a point.

But I think sometimes they might say, well, thank God he told those bastards a lie.

That's right.

And I would add one other thought to what you said.

And just say we're here on national television, all three networks, talking to millions of people, and surely there's more to concern this American Republic than what happened to 2,000 businesses who came here to try to stop working for their government to get over those questions.

That's right.

That's good.

I think you did exactly right.

I think what you're coming through, which is the important thing, what you're coming through is a strong man.

strong energy and so forth.

It's very important that you do that.

But in the case, you see, the death penalty was out there.

He hasn't got anybody else that comes through.

Mitchell is a strong man, but Mitchell does not come through.

I mean, he basically is, he doesn't come through to lead, but he just doesn't come through to cover.

He can't, it's not his way.

Mitchell is just a tough, no-nonsense guy that the cops

But Rodgers, no way.

He was sort of smooth and sophisticated and weak.

And Laird, Laird on the table, nobody believes him.

Nobody believes Laird.

I'm talking about Ken.

He doesn't count you believable.

Rodney works hard, both of you work hard.

They're not heavy enough.

Sands, fine piece.

not taken too seriously.

Richardson is basically an intellectual, a good straw, and a good, capable administrator.

Hardly.

You see, but see the problem he's got.

He's got to hold that cap, all of them want to do the right thing.

all over a decent ranch, all over a goddamn good show, but when it comes to getting up there and finding any, hell, you need a, you need basically a down someplace in that ranch, out of the cabin, you need, you need a, you need an 80s, you need some people like that.

You talk about a terrible hero.

You even talk about that crazy Henkel.

At least he has a little color, naturally.

you gotta have a little you should correct you should what you know whatever you can't you can't just manufacture but you have to build on whatever your personality is and uh i don't get the reputation just being a tough guy but uh i'm gonna be myself you know that's right that's all i'm gonna have with me well as a matter of fact as a matter of fact uh basically i would uh i feel like that i have

I have delivered quite a, quite a, a very, you know, composed role and all that sort of thing during these demonstrations and so forth and so on.

I'm listening.

Last year, you can't vote me at all.

You see, indirectly, that was the right issue.

Right.

In other words, it's the enemy there is.

Sure.

And I would, sure, I would, I would give a second thought to it.

You just cracked it.

Yes, sir.

I sure would.

And then I'd go and file it on the state of the us and just say I've been talking to hundreds or tens of millions of people and I'm sure they have some interest in the matter.

In other matters, you can tell me.

Proceed with the order, please.

Thank you, Mr. President.

I'll see you at 8 o'clock tomorrow.

Is this going to be in the mansion?

Yeah.

All right.

I guess this is a change, isn't it?

The Nicaraguan foreign minister and Senator Meyer are not going to be standing by in this content meeting with this asshole tonight, right?

This has all changed, CSI.

This has succeeded.

Well, anyway.

Senator Henry's not... Yeah, okay.

You know, Senator...

He's been together in the...

Are they coming at 7.30 also?

No, sir, they arrived late.

Okay.

Mrs. Somoza and Mr. Cassius.

That's right.

They'll be brought up, Mrs. Nancy.

We'll receive that once you and President Somoza join.

Thank you.

This is so ridiculous, I... Why I've got the meeting, I don't understand why we allowed them to send the meeting, I'm serious, I... Henry didn't understand.

It came out pretty well, because we were still fighting a couple days ago, earlier in the day meeting.

Oh, is that right?

Yeah.

But they wanted to have an arrival, and Henry... No, no, Henry did get to an arrival, but we were escalating rapidly, and we could have gotten to one, but...

I had an entering program, fine.

He was in full agreement with me, you know, just do the 7.30 now.

We weren't going to do anything.

He said you had to, and he bought the 7.30, but then taking his people and, I guess, pressure from the state or somebody.

It's a basic process because he's trying to record every opportunity in the dinner.

And you give him the, now adding the wives to the dinner, and he said that was more of an occasion.

Where are they?

Jesus Christ.

I didn't know we had a separate batch of stuff, but I think part of that makes a rule.

The more people you've got, the more people they have to hurt you as much.

Oh, you got it.

Don Hughes was going to give me a list of people in the class that were there that were outstanding.

He definitely didn't see it.

What he was going to give me was the list of people that did.

There aren't a hell of a lot of people.

I don't know.

It's my answer to the university.

We do tell Ryland to go in and take somebody else so that I can get out in 15 minutes.

We're talking about 620.

We're talking about 620, so we might want to have as much as I can here, as much as I can.

Okay, essentially.

Well, a little scout for a fire engine crew.

I was trying to suggest one thing that is not even any other to be borne in mind.

I realize that it's hard to doubt it's a battle.

Yeah, and outside.

When you got a young group, you know, like that and so forth, you put them in a room together and they all wanted their own, you know, what I meant, hotel.

Oh, yeah.

I meant that they applaud and so forth and so on.

They're enthusiastic.

And it's terribly hard.

You know, any of our crowd is, you know, like when our chief of state comes and applauds us.

All right, that's right.

You don't need a coach, I believe, isn't it?

Well, people yesterday, you know, how out there, how do you know, you make the goddamn speech on the door, and nothing comes out.

And I just feel that if we were trying to show, if we were trying to show an enthusiasm for you, we didn't show it a whole lot out there today.

I mean, they were nice, they were pleasant, which is good of me.

Yeah.

All right.

America's a good place.

All right.

I know I used to put them in the back of me, too, because it made a better television picture.

But it's the old shot of the portico in the background, then the boys.

The old story of the life, the time we had the astronauts bob out of tubes.

The thing in the back, it's a question of, do you want a great picture, or do you want a feeling of excitement, of enthusiasm, you know?

I think it's an awful good picture of, you know, just you with the kids, because the expressions on their faces and the tremendous stalls of the cameras, and everyone up in the camera.

There's pretty much that idea of just an independent thing of,

He feels very strongly that my showing is a little out of range.

He said, you know, I did what I might have said.

And he said, you know, I got a bad one thing.

And I said, no, look, there's a lot of other situations other than what 12,000 or any of my demonstrators did when they came here to Washington.

Let's get on with the next one.

Kennedy used to do that, son.

He used to try to depress.

He'd say, I mean, there's nothing, you know, I'm accomplishing anything by pulling the hammer away.

That or something, it doesn't make any sense.

I mean, he sort of, I mean, he could.

He could get away with it.

Well, you could get away with it with the people.

The people are with you.

You can't get depressed all the time.

What the hell do you care?

They like it when you do it.

Sometimes.

There's a day he did it anyway, but it probably would be effective.

Well, I wonder.

I asked John Irving, who raised the subject with me himself.

I thought you said it was Charles who raised it this morning.

Yeah, I did.

I heard the reason, and I don't know why.

It wasn't this morning.

The customization picked up all this stuff.

It's a hell of a thing.

I told Connelly to bring it in.

I gave him a certificate or something.

I think that's a good thing to do.

That's constantly getting some stuff here.

That's what stirred up a little bit.

You know, I think I should just start my own opinion charge.

You know, see, we're putting a man down over here in Chappie.

So far, we'll reward people in this time.

The other day, it hasn't worked.

Nothing has worked out for this time.

Part of the reason is the government's been going home and making corrections.

But you've got to go through it.

You've got to do like Jay Edgar used to do, you know, don't arrest this son of a bitch until I get there.

And you walk up to the door and bang on the door.

And LaGuardia used to jump on the fire wagon and run out to the fire.

People probably used to be really worried about him.

You can't do that kind of thing.

Your people can't.

You could do something, but I wonder if you're quite sure if you're doing this in jail.

I asked her if she would lay, but I had wondered if she could push him through, and I decided that was pretty firm, and that was pretty cool.

With the press, in fact, throughout her life, John Irving, yes, John Irving says, no, well, he says, no, he may not think that.

He just, I just, just gives a little, just a little, some fire.

Of course, comedy series have, you know,

Because I think you showed some, or did you call it balloons and vandals?

Yeah, yeah.

Those were the words.

Maybe they were said too coolly.

You said those pretty firmly.

Yeah.

You said those, so you were looking right into the camera, so I recall you got, and that's, we're taking that down.

And now to this fundamental point about this whole craft about to what we do.

They're supposed to keep those goddamn white curtains back in there.

Can they do that, please?

Sure.

At the time.

Or better still, take them off.

Revolver's for summer.

We don't need them.

Okay.

They've just been sticking them back.

Yeah.

The real question is, you know, we have, we have always, it really goes back to the steps from that whole period before the first debate.

What we talked about, what he was saying, he goes on and on and on and on and on.

They're very sensitive about the fact that I'm never supposed to show them emotion, you know, anger and that sort of thing.

I'm not sure that's correct.

I'm not sure, but if somebody has said, I know a lot of people like the old links, what's it called?

They're not so sure that they may be as impressed with this old business of kumis and so forth.

Now, you've got Christ there, of course, which is totally that.

You've got to be like God.

In other words, you're a kumis.

temper, and this and that.

I'm not too sure of it.

I'm not too sure of the rhetoric.

I think it's a very fine line, but I think there is a need if you're going to make an issue.

Now then, you've got to get something.

Conley said he got an enormously behavioral reaction when he said immunity.

Because he cracked.

He stood up for America.

He kicked people around the world.

I'm a bit surprised.

That's what helped Agnew.

At the time, he's not worried now.

He's become peevish now.

He's whining.

And he comes back to it every time.

Now, he's peevish.

He's on a lot of strength.

Well, it's not getting mad at your kids or your employees or anything else.

It's good to do, but you've got to do it on purpose, when it serves your purpose, not just all the time.

Having this also is gold.

I'm a little surprised in my mind.

We had one last night.

Maybe that wasn't the one to use it on.

You may not think it.

What I meant is, what I meant is to do a lot of things.

Could be that kind of thing.

Oh yeah, they were waiting on that.

I'm not going to waste that on an office press conference.

Just to give you a very, very brief update

on any domestic, uh, yeah, I don't know, 18 books.

No, I mean, that starts at that.

If you just thought about it, I just want to, just to tell my, I don't even have a half hour to read.

I just want to have some video notes.

I just want a little update on the stuff.

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep my writing on the desk.

I'm gonna make it sweet.

I'm gonna make it funny.

I'm gonna make it all sweet.

I'm gonna make it sweet.

Last week, I hired him.

Last month, he got him first, but I think now he's reverted to the...

Pretty good setup to do this.

They continue to go so bad.

I mean, they looked particularly bad last time.

They're very close in size.

They're mean.

Most of them don't have very good, you see, direction in terms of size.

I mean, she's got to be very careful.

I hope we see her.

I mean, just toss it.

Last night we were pretty much on that issue.

I don't see how that wouldn't have come out very strongly.

I get the advantage of repetition with a very strong point, strongly made.

I don't see how there can be any question or any doubt.

But the only thing I can say is how it is a cool thing happens, right?

A lot of them go back, basically, not to the campaign.

It wasn't the campaign, but for that one miserable production job.

Just one.

For the campaign.

Nobody ever raised any questions.

First, they had no reason to.

My teachers at the campaign were highly responsible.

They weren't arguing.

You know what I mean.

None of them turned right.

But that was just one thing.

We had Mr. That's one of them.

Yeah, he told Bell, but he also said there wasn't, you know, he wasn't asked.

That he was told, put it on.

Pointed out the problems of all the billions.

He was told to try and solve them, so he did.

He was trying to solve them.

I'll be honest.

cool stuff and so forth.

Whether really you're getting the, whether you get across a strong enough image, that's what we're talking about.

That's what the cool tones mean.

If T is a cool medium, you should be cool generally.

You can use some iPhones, you know.

That might be one.

I don't think you want to come off

come charging in there all ganged up.

All right, first question, banging away.

That ain't the coolest, but then a little righteous indignation or something like that on a particular point where there's a reason for it.

It might be sort of a spice that picks it up, changes the tone a little bit, builds the conflict

If you argue that the medium, that the device is a good one because of the conflict, then that conflict ought to be sharp.

There should be a little ebb and flow in the conflict.

There should be the touch of humor and then there should be the touch of sharpness.

So it's a little fight for range, yeah.

There's some fight there.

I don't feel good about it.

It should be bitterness.

It shouldn't be querulousness or anything like that.

It should be just...

Naturally, you can't do it.

Well, I should feel like doing it.

But it would have been easy to be natural on that one last night.

Oh, well, not really.

I get under complete control of those kind of things.

You'd have to say that.

You'd have to be under control.

You couldn't let it irritate you.

You couldn't do it if you were mad.

But you'd have to do it where it would be natural to be weak.

I've had money on occasions to be able to take them on or sell them.

That's totally unfair, totally, you know, where they say that you have taken them on pretty, I guess you've done it cool, you've done it, that's a challenge for a charterer.

Any elections appreciated.

Maybe Anderson.

Maybe that guy out there.

He'll come in every day.

And the facts are, you know, he'd like to see a knockoff.

He doesn't like to see somebody come up.

Yeah.

Rockets.

They've got to remember four days.

Drugs are not going to forget anyone.

See, because you'll state the premise there.

Even if they didn't hear you do it, you're going to say it.

You'll say, President Nixon said he is opposed to legalizing marijuana.

Do you agree or disagree?

And I don't say drugs.

On the vouchers, you won't quite state the premise.

No, but you, yeah.

I think most of them remember that.

In the calls you had, most everybody mentioned that.

Yeah.

In the Christian survey, only half or less than half will have seen the press conference.

Half the people you're talking to won't have seen it anyway.

We get the answer from everybody, not just the people who saw the press conference.

We can separate it and look at it and see whether it made a difference.

Yeah.

It's been really worth holding this week.

What do you think?

Because we just spent all the money we needed.

I don't really have all this time in the universe to pull when the hell are we going to have a show really until after we have a major foreign policy breakthrough problem.

I'd like to see, I'd like to pull before I go to the wedding.

I'd like to see what the wedding does.

You do?

Yeah.

I don't know why because we can't stage another one.

You know.

One pulls, you know, one builds on the other.

I push for more pulls.

I used to

push or not pulling.

It's been good to pull intensively as we have.

We've learned a lot on how to use them.

And what's the saving money?

I don't know.

And we don't need to save the money.

I don't see any reason to save the money.

I just, when you think, you know, we can run half a dozen poles with a cost of over one minute spot on television.

Pools are worth a lot more to us.

And we get other questions in.

We get our, you know, get the China question, the Uber question, the BP question.

There's other things for you.

Well, I think it's worth, like the marijuana question, I think it's worth getting out.

All right.

Let it go.

I don't know.

I guess the answer is no.

Do you make it a lot more than I think?

Marijuana users.

They don't think it's a good life.

Why?

Because they know it's bad.

They think the only deterrent they have is moving out.

They know it slows them down.

It's real hot at your dinner, huh?

I don't know if you love it, huh?

Thank God there's no more of these.

It's as good as possible.

I'm fucking the shit out of me.

A portion of the building.

What the hell happened?

Now, just a quick little brief update about just around this one.

Now, this is only the white office for this time, so what additional questions?

This is one of them.

The one idea is that it's going to be snow, but is that diamonds?

They'll give the diamonds some more now, don't they?

They probably don't.

But it is gold.

All right, we're out of here.

Yes, sir.

Ah, John Axelman's got a little order.

I'll tell you what, this fellow, John, was in the morning.

I called him to be the...

I guess Crowe is going to be there, because I'm going to call on him to run the meeting so that I don't have to do it.

I'm going to just stay here and not consider this meeting a problem.

He has studied enough.

He's abused you always.

I think we need to get him to step back and watch what's going on.

He's been singing the things we need him to, as if you're running the meeting.

That way.

He can't see what's going on.

Please, all three of you should be with him.

They should start talking.

It's a man's responsibility.

Well, they like to.

Your guys are the guys that are damn good at that.

Oh, yes.

They're good at running meetings.

I can sit back and listen, please.

And you can be more effective than that.

If you have to run it, you can't.

I know.

You can't get it to die once in it.

If you sit back, you can watch and see where it's going to touch.