Nixon with unidentified visitors in the Oval Office on Heroin policy

2:31Mainly I wanted to talk to you about this meeting with the Joint Chiefs and the defense people this morning.
2:38We just had a meeting with the PR types up there who feel that we are going to unduly emphasize the military aspect of this thing unless we broaden this meeting to include Mitchell and Richardson so that we can come out and say that this was not a meeting about military heroin but about the heroin problem.
2:58So if that's all right with you, we'll add that.
3:00Okay.
3:00Okay.
3:02And maybe somebody from the State Department, since we're going to propose that you have a meeting on the subject of international relations and heroin at some time, maybe next week or the week after.
3:18John Irwin or somebody from the State Department, come over and just be there for this thing tomorrow.
3:29And we can say you've...
3:32across the board now I had planned to put on a tape the PR fellas say they think that would be very bad because it would leak that we had done that and it would look like we were reacting to media instead of that what I can do is make the tape available to them and have them go back to the Pentagon and play it and I'll take care of that privately
4:02But we'll have Ingersoll, who's just returned from an overseas trip, to report.
4:09And then we can say that this was not a report about just soldiers.
4:14This was a report about the heroin problem generally and get that broader focus to it.
4:19That's the thing we want to get everywhere.
4:26Right.
4:26It isn't just heroin.
4:28Right.
4:28And it's non-military.
4:29It's very broad.
4:32Now, we see a possibility of doing about a four-step bounce.
4:39One would be to brief after this meeting tomorrow and use it as an occasion to brief on what we've been doing up till now with a fact sheet that runs way back in time as to the various steps we've been taking on the heroin problem and hint a little bit about what we're
5:01Well, I think so.
5:05I think you'll find that it's a much more manageable effort to do.
5:10Right.
5:11Second would be another meeting in a few days with the emphasis on the foreign policy aspects.
5:18Henry is preparing a prospectus of what that meeting might contain.
5:24Third, a couple of appearances.
5:27Rumsfeld thinks on issues and answers, and an appearance at the Ad Council who've been helping us with the public education aspect of this.
5:35Rumsfeld's going to speak there and other people to talk about the public education part of this.
5:40Four, an announcement of our legislation and the affirmative program that you have with the military, which will involve legislation...
5:52Well, in two areas.
5:54Three areas.
5:55One, a reorganization of the government to create the Special Action Office under your personal direction.
6:05The whole subject across.
6:07And bringing all of the functions of government.
6:12Well, what this will be is the planning and budgetary control of all of the narcotics prevention,
6:20and the Rehabilitation Act.
6:22Everything.
6:23Everything.
6:26Then we're taking charge of the drugs.
6:28Exactly.
6:28Exactly.
6:29Personal charge.
6:30Now, about when would we be doing that?
6:33We'd be doing that in about a week or ten days.
6:37Now, I'm having them draw the legislation.
6:39I talked to the fellow yesterday that I think is your man to hit this thing, this Jaffe.
6:45He is a tough, mean, smart little dude from Chicago.
6:50And he knows his field better than anybody because he's running a program statewide in Illinois.
7:01Very ambitious.
7:02Very licensed.
7:04He sees himself becoming the preeminent authority in the world.
7:11And I, I dangled this, you see, and said, you know, this challenge.
7:15And he says, well, I'd like to take a sabbatical and write things up.
7:18And I said, would you rather take a sabbatical than run a national program with a president's rip and all the money you need?
7:26And he smiled and said, well, maybe I could get somebody else to write the book.
7:31So he'll... Well, I think he is.
7:3539 years old.
7:38I said, supposing you could do anything you wanted to solve our problem in Vietnam, what would you do?
7:45He said, number one, I'd never tell anybody I was going to solve the problem.
7:49He said, I would establish realistic goals and then I would exceed them.
7:53Number two, he says, you've got to have machines.
7:56The first thing to find out before you tell anybody anything is can we get the machines to check the urine.
8:02He says, excuse me, I'll go out and make a phone call and find out if we can get the machines.
8:07I said, now, hold everything.
8:09Wait a minute.
8:09I just asked you a hypothetical question.
8:11Well, OK, he says, after the meeting, I'll go see if we can get the machines.
8:15And then he goes on from there.
8:17He says, I need some clout.
8:18He says, that military's got to do what I tell them when I get over there.
8:21I don't want to have to play politics with the military.
8:24Then he goes on this way.
8:26He says, I've got to have 130 medics.
8:28He says, I'll train them in this country.
8:29It'll take me 12 hours.
8:31We'll put them on an airplane.
8:32We'll take them over there.
8:34And, you know, I like the way he works.
8:37He lays it right out.
8:39And so if we can get this guy, here's the way I'd like to parlay this.
8:45We'll announce what we're going to do, but we won't announce the director that we have in mind.
8:52Give me a few dates.
8:54And we can announce what part of it, a week to 10 days from now, 8 to 10, somewhere along in there.
9:02Then, a week later, I'd like to have you go to one of his treatment centers in Chicago and see what it is, and announce that you've talked Ogilvy into letting the nation have Jaffe because of the successful program that he's been running there.
9:24to tackle this on a nationwide scale.
9:29Now, that's all I can tell you about that for the moment.
9:32We've got the guys working on the legislation, and we'll have it shortly.
9:38We do know we can get the machines, incidentally.
9:42The other thing the legislation will have in it is money for Ingersoll and for Jaffe.
9:49And it will have in it the enablement to permit you to hold soldiers in the service who are narcotic addicts.
9:58The legislation will be only with the military side?
10:00Oh, no, no, no.
10:01So far, it's all submitted.
10:03All right, okay.
10:04Plus the right to hold people in the military after their enlistment date if they are addicts.
10:11Now, that will permit us.
10:13to treat these guys in Vietnam before they come home.
10:17Could you leave them on a volunteer basis?
10:19No.
10:20And I'll tell you why.
10:21I'll tell you why.
10:23They won't do it.
10:24They won't do it.
10:26And the plan that Jackie outlines that I think is sound is this one.
10:31You're a soldier in Vietnam, and you know that 65 days from now, you're going to be eligible to come home.
10:37You call in to talk to your CO, and the CO says to your soldier,
10:41You've got to have 60 continuous days off heroin or you can't go home.
10:47You'll have to go into treatment here.
10:50And it's 65 days now.
10:52So why don't you start right now?
10:53And every day you have to have a urinalysis under controlled conditions.
10:57And within a minute, they can tell you with this machine whether you're clean enough, whether you've had any heroin that day or in the preceding 24 hours.
11:07so the guy undergoes a urinalysis for 60 continuous days and if he's clean all 60 days he goes home right on time just as he would but if he stumbles and he resorts to heroin
11:21at any time, then he starts a 60-day cycle of mood.
11:26Right.
11:26He has to be in Vietnam, according to Jaffe, if he's over there now, or in Germany, if that's where he is.
11:32Well, if he's home, then that's, yeah, same thing.
11:37But you see, the psychology in Vietnam is that the addiction is associated with that environment in Vietnam.
11:46And the psychologist says to the soldier, look, you're going home.
11:50That's a new environment.
11:51You can leave this all behind and make this change back.
11:55This is the time to do it.
11:57And you can do it.
11:58And besides, you have to do it or you can't go home.
12:01So it's a stick and carrot kind of thing.
12:06And Jackie says that'll work in a large percentage of the cases.
12:12Let's do it, though, in terms of, if we can, Vietnam, just anybody ending this period of military service, so that we don't just say Vietnam, going home, in that environment.
12:24And we all know that it's Vietnam.
12:26is turned into anybody in his period of military service we're not going to let him go out that's that's one of the things we're not escaping from all right good now those are the things that the legislation i i think we have well they're not many in this field i'll tell you they really are there's one other george charlie
12:56Hello, this is John.
13:00I knew that you had got him talking to her in a chat with Peterson.
13:03Without us all expressing our anger, here's your problem, John.
13:07I explained that to Pete, and then George doubled back, doubled around, and worked on Peterson some more.
13:27I'm Charlie Shaw.
13:30Am I wrong?
13:33I don't know personally anything about Brookings.
13:38Brookings is a hotbed.
13:41And I'm not going to take these people now.
13:47We've gone around the guard track before you on these truths about 18 times.
13:51The main thing is to go all out for others.
13:52Oh, Christ, I don't care who else it is.
13:55And also, you can tell them right after the election.
13:57The coloration of this thing today is...
14:00Very unfortunate, I think.
14:03But I'll... Well, I mean, the people that are to be here.
14:07They're J. Irwin Miller and a bunch of people like that.
14:10And... That's this afternoon at 5 o'clock.
14:16You don't go.
14:18Oh, no.
14:20No, no.
14:20Henry and George and I go.
14:39I think I'm going to suggest to Pete that from now on we collaborate on some of these things.
14:46What are these people coming in for?
14:47Well, they're just going to gas about the long-range world goals for America and the economic overseas.
14:55He's having Gardner.
14:56He's not having Schultz that I know of.
14:58Schultz isn't on the list.
15:00He's having the other guy, Kermit Gordon, from over there.
15:06All right.
15:12Yeah, yeah.
15:14I'll find out what I can.
15:16Absolutely.
15:16They just go out and use this over and over.
15:25No question about it.
15:26Is there a better example than that?
15:35That's very good.
15:38Both were partisans against us.
15:41And what's the other guy?
15:44Allen.
15:45And Allen, the education man, all were partisans against him and thought, what are they going to come out and cut you up?
15:56What are they going to do?
15:57Let me ask you a couple of things that will come to the memorandum that you barely haven't gotten yet.
16:01I love what you're saying.
16:04I really want you to re-examine whether or not we can have some stronger penalties.
16:15Not for... Oh, I've got that.
16:18We're working on it.
16:18You don't understand.
16:19Right.
16:19And that's definitely...
16:20I mean, I keep thinking of a death penalty.
16:22A death penalty for a... Now, this is for an actual thing.
16:23That's right.
16:24Now, listen.
16:24I did this in California.
16:24I know there's a lot of people...
16:26It hits a lot of people wrong who are against death penalties.
16:29It's true.
16:30But I think it's tough that, you know, like the Lindbergh Law application for pushers.
16:36Not a pusher who's an addict, not a small-time addict, but interstate and so forth and so on.
16:44I think you could have one hell of a talk.
16:51But at the very least, go up to, not on the fines, they pay the fines.
16:59Go up to, you know.
17:00Mandatory prison.
17:00Mandatory prison for life.
17:02Life in prison is mandatory.
17:07You know, something like that.
17:08The other, the other in Miranda that I covered, the guard of the doctors.
17:11I'm going to read it to those doctors.
17:17Doctors, a lot of them are people that bring people to drugs.
17:23Now they'll say you're interfering with their medical advice and all the rest.
17:27but they go overboard even on sleeping pills.
17:30They go overboard on sleeping pills.
17:32They go overboard.
17:33They have done it.
17:34That's how people get those drugs.
17:35Don't the ups and downs come from doctors?
17:38No, not all of them.
17:39You see, what's happened is that our pharmaceutical houses in this country have shipped these drugs to phony addresses in Mexico.
17:48And so?
17:48And so then they're smuggled back into the United States and into the market.
17:52and we have we did that well we took care of that we took care of this in our in our crime act that finally got passed in our narcotics control act so that we have these pharmaceutical houses just the first of july or the end of this month they go under very stringent controls now on the sending of this stuff can we find out about doctors there must be doctors we will that's what your memo said and we're on that
18:18Well, you probably already understand.
18:23I'm willing to take a very hard line to get doctors.
18:25Nobody likes doctors anyway, Bob.
18:28I don't, John.
18:28I don't like them.
18:29I mean, it will last.
18:30They ought to take a hell of a route and a hell of a responsibility.
18:34And I'm going to get it in my AMA, and rather than talking about the medical program, ask them to help us in parking these drugs.
18:42Cappy was interesting.
18:43You know why he wants to take the medics from this country?
18:46He says, hell, all the medics in the service in Vietnam are on stuff.
18:52He says they get it right out of the medicine cabinet.
18:54They call them caps.
18:56And he says, I can't use any of those guys over there.
19:00What's heroin?
19:01Well, it's morphine or cocaine or something.
19:04quite in the name of God that these people take this stuff.
19:12It's for the same reason they drink.
19:14They're bored.
19:14It's a diversion.
19:16Drinking is a different thing, in a sense.
19:19Linklater's point, I think, is well taken.
19:24He says that a person may drink to have a good time, but a person
19:32does not drink simply for the purpose of getting high.
19:36He takes drugs for the purpose of getting high.
19:39Here's the difference.
19:40And it's cheaper in Vietnam.
19:43That's another thing.
19:46But the whole motivation in this thing is something you ought to sit down and talk to Jaffe about sometime.
19:53He's very interesting to talk to.
19:55And I understand that I have not.
19:58Let me say, I used to be much too hard on those that took it.
20:02I understand now.
20:08I understand why.
20:11I mean, all that.
20:12And I'm not for legalizing it.
20:12I think the idea of legalizing the God family is ridiculous.
20:14And he agrees with that.
20:16Marijuana?
20:17Yep.
20:17You did one?
20:18Yep.
20:19Well, I thought I'd better comb that out right from the beginning.
20:22He says, absolutely.
20:23He says, you've got to draw a line.
20:25And he said, you're either on one side of it or you're on the other.
20:27And he says, I can live very comfortably with a president's position on it.
20:31The point is, and it's what you said long ago, you're on the drug society, the state society, and if you get, uh, if you get on the drug society, why don't you start down that road?
20:46I also asked for a study made, which I don't, I'm sure you would make, I don't know if you've got this, who are addicted to heroin.
20:53How many of yous?
20:54No, I didn't have that.
20:56I'm sure there's a statistic that is easily discoverable.
21:02People addicted to heroin, I am sure, will find that...
21:08I'd like to know how many of them used marijuana.
21:12Right.
21:12And how many did not use marijuana.
21:13All right.
21:13Let me say, it's the same thing as cigarettes and cancer.
21:16You get the deceptive relationship.
21:21That's right.
21:24You can say, well, if you smoke cigarettes, you've got 10 times as much of a chance to get cancer if you don't smoke cigarettes.
21:31Now, that doesn't prove that you smoke cigarettes, you don't get cancer.
21:33But it does say, tell us something that makes sense.
21:35Now, the other thing, Jaffe, is very important.
21:36The other thing, Jaffe, I want to tell you.
21:38All right.
21:38Julie was the one last time, Smith, she said there was no relationship between heroin and marijuana.
21:41Well, that's her argument.
21:42The thing Jaffe will tell you is that we don't know because we don't have any decent statistics in this country.
21:51Well, he says your narcotic statistics in this country are totally unreliable.
21:58And he said that's one of the reasons that he would like to become the director of a national program.
22:04Because he said one of the things he would...
22:10Right.
22:13Is that right?
22:13Yes, sir.
22:14That's the way we're setting it up.
22:16That's the way we're setting it up.
22:17We're only setting it up for three years.
22:18Like cancer.
22:20Right.
22:20Like cancer.
22:21Right.
22:21And the idea here, he says also, revelation to me, he said, drug incidence among Americans is epidemic.
22:30It comes on, it goes way up, and then it comes down.
22:34He says, we went through this country with cocaine some years ago.
22:38Yep.
22:38And he said, you can expect this heroin thing to go up farther.
22:43But then he said, eventually it will come down.
22:47And so he said, I would recommend that you put a finite term on this thing in recognition of that fact.
22:53And he says, the sophisticates will recognize that you know what you're talking about.
23:01Voice hats?
23:02Not very many.
23:04They have a very strong program.
23:07A very, very strong narcotics education program.
23:11It's one of the good things that they've done recently.
23:15And they're really doing a first-rate job.
23:22Matter of fact, they came in about a year ago for some advice on this.
23:26We put them in touch with Krogh, and he's worked with them on developing this education program.
23:34So we've had a part of it right from the beginning.
23:42Yes, sir.
23:42Do you want them before you go out?
23:46All right.
23:49Because Bud may have some of them.
23:50You asked for another number that we have had right along, and that was on this Black Caucus business.
23:55It's $100 billion.
23:58and uh they they made the judgment not to use that in the response because uh they felt that it would uh impugn the uh the uh good faith of the little black caucus people you know tomorrow not after the errors yeah but that was it you see here is the line that i was trying to use expressing i may do something when i have something small scale
24:29Yes.
24:42REQUESTS.
24:43REQUESTS AND DEMANDS.
24:45WE JUST SAID, WE'VE BEEN USING A TERM OF OUR, WHICH IS REQUESTS, ON THE THEORY THAT THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO DEMAND ANYTHING OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
24:51I SAID REQUESTS AND DEMANDS.
24:57I WOULD LIKE TO SAY A LITTLE ON THAT.
24:58I SAID WE CONSIDER EVERYONE ON THE MANDATE CAPITOL OFFICERS.
25:04IS THAT TRUE?
25:05EASILY.
25:05EASILY.
25:05WELL, WE'LL GET, WELL, WE DON'T WANT TO MENTION OFFICERS.
25:08A LOT OF MEMBERS OF THE CAPITOL.
25:10PERSONALLY.
25:11helped respond specifically to every one of these demands.
25:21When we met, I told them quite candidly that on some of their requests that we would be able to agree, on others we could not agree, that as a nation we were committed here that we couldn't do everything for every group that came in.
25:32And I would give them the commitment that we would be responsive and we would be honest.
25:36We would not tell them that we would do something we didn't.
25:39Now, we have responded.
25:43We have agreed with some of the initiatives.
25:45Let me tell you, as we look at this stuff,
25:47that we priced our procedure.
25:50If we had done everything, it would have cost $100 billion in tax per year.
25:56And that would have required a tax increase of so much for how much every American family needs.
26:05It's 50% of the existing budget.
26:06So just add 50% to your tax.
26:08And it's 50% increase in the taxes.
26:10That's the point.
26:11That's the point.
26:12Across the board.
26:1350% increase in the taxes.
26:15And this is not, we just can't do this.
26:17I think as well that they only have black passports.
26:21I mean, basically because they were, they did not, I mean...
26:25There's a 50% increase in taxes for 12% of the population is what it amounts to.
26:31Yeah, well, they'd all say do it.
26:32They'd all say.
26:33I've got just a couple other odds and ends.
26:36I'm very pleased, but I'm going to say it with regret, because I think it comes at a good time.
26:43As Bob has probably told you, they uphold this situation.
26:48just mentioned it to me in the yard here and said he wanted to run through with it nobody has to give it that's why we're excited very hard yeah the fact that the uh and we're going to continue to on that law and order county forgotten before you see mitchell's problem let me tell you with regard to the whole law and order all the cops know he's for law and order yeah the folks don't yeah
27:12He's not a good publicist.
27:14He's like Edgar Hoover.
27:16They all know he is.
27:18I think 70% would rate him as a good company.
27:20I bet you if you'd ask the people, there'd be a hell of a lot more people who'd market than John.
27:26That's probably right.
27:27You see what I mean?
27:29Now, on the other hand, John, this is one area people are interested in.
27:34It's one area that we're taking the rap because we are tough.
27:37By God, let's get the credit for it.
27:39They've all got the fear.
27:41Everybody's got the fear.
27:43The Department of Transportation is about to award a $10.5 million contract to the Vertol Corporation for the systems management of urban mass rapid transit.
28:03This is that rapid rail vehicle.
28:05Now, Vertol Corporation is owned by Boeing.
28:08And I put a hold on this until I had a chance to talk to you.
28:13Is that all right?
28:14Okay.
28:15You know why I'm talking about this.
28:17Sure, but I... Of course we're going to help out.
28:19Obviously, I...
28:19I understand that when we really come down to it, we know where they stand.
28:23Okay, well, I'll let that go through.
28:25I also sent a memorandum to you that I...
28:28I want Magruder to work on it.
28:30He's on it.
28:31The SSP?
28:32Yes, sir.
28:32Don't give up.
28:33God damn it, we can build the SSP.
28:35I had him in last night.
28:36I had him in last night.
28:37I wondered if we can't take the whole thing.
28:41And why aren't I meeting with the Japanese?
28:44Well, he's on his way overseas today.
28:46Wouldn't that be an exciting thing?
28:48It would.
28:49If we get together with Japan.
28:50Well, I'll tell you what I've... And build the goddamn thing.
28:53I've talked to Peterson and to Magruder, and they've talked.
28:57Magruder's on his way to the Paris Airshow.
29:00Yeah.
29:01And he's also going to talk to the, well, as a matter of fact, he's going to fly the Russian SST.
29:05He's going to go over and have a ride in it and fly it.
29:11And he's going to see some Japanese while he's over there, the Mitsubishi people.
29:15Why do you like Japanese?
29:16Well, it is intriguing.
29:54So he's given Magruder a briefing on the realities of the Japanese trade situation.
30:03I let Magruder read your memo so that he understood what your needs were.
30:12The other thing I wanted to mention to you was that I did talk, I couldn't get a hold of Rockefeller, but I talked to Bobby Douglas, his counsel, about that $100 million.
30:20Yeah.
30:21LEAA is practically a dry well, so we're going to look for other sources of money.
30:27I'm not sure we should go.
30:28Well, that's what I wanted to check with you.
30:31It would go to the city.
30:34And Douglas says that their crying need is for a narcotics court.
30:40They had 40,000 indictments for narcotics violations, pushers primarily, in New York last year, and only 49 went to jail.
30:52The reason is that their courts are so jammed up that the prosecutors take a lower plea.
31:00Now, he says, what we'd like to do is set up a special narcotics court with judges on loan from other courts that are not so busy and get special attention to the punishment of narcotics violations.
31:11And I said, Bobby, you are singing our song.
31:14Send me down a proposal on that, and I'll get you some LEAA money, because that's a new thing, see?
31:20and i can use lea money that way so he's getting a letter down to me he's got a very short time schedule i may have to move very fast on this okay what is the situation
31:44Three of the numbers that are going to come out in June, July, August, and September, I understand.
32:01I think they will come down toward the end of the year.
32:03However, they're hanging high in all of this period.
32:04It will be extremely difficult.
32:06I wonder, in other words, John, in terms of all the things we spend money for and so forth and so on, I just remember hooting $150 million on some of these goddamn professors there that I wish I hadn't done it.
32:12I want to get away from subsidizing the colleges and universities, and particularly the elite colleges and universities.
32:32I'm really, really strongly about that.
32:34Remember, I started it before, and everybody said I was doing it because of Cambodia.
32:36I wasn't really doing it because of Cambodia.
32:38I'm doing it because
32:39these package of leeches and they're producing bad for kids.
32:44Now let's put it into the other, put David to work on this.
32:46You know what I mean?
32:47Yes, sir.
32:47I think if we move it out of that and put it into applied science, it's going to be part of the country.
32:56And let these guys think we'll come to pay.
32:57All right, the, well, the employment thing.
33:04In terms of taking pressure off, we've just got to move in the right direction.
33:22We're going to have a nasty problem with National Public Service employment coming down here, which is, quote, a bad bill, unquote.
33:36How much?
33:36Between $1 billion and $2 billion.
33:39Now, it just may be that you really want to sign it.
33:45It's a fast way of doing this.
33:48Will it affect employment?
33:49Yes.
33:51I can't give you the hundreds of thousands of jobs.
33:56Well, I know hundreds of thousands of jobs on one bar.
34:00I want you to come down right into the numbers.
34:05All right.
34:05What I mean is also see what we can get rid of.
34:10All right.
34:11We already indicated we're going to veto it.
34:15The speculation is they will veto it.
34:17We've not said so.
34:19And the reason is that it is practically the same bill you vetoed last time.
34:23And the manpower folks say it's a bad bill because it's dead end and it's WPA and all that kind of thing.
34:29The mayors say, God, give us the money, you know, and we'll go out and hire people to rake leaves and all that stuff.
34:40It's virtually finished.
34:40We know the formula.
34:42Probably not.
34:43I'll tell you what we're doing to it.
34:46We're opposing it with our special revenue sharing manpower.
34:49And there's a vote this afternoon on it.
34:51We'll probably lose.
34:54We've not tried to clean up the other bill.
34:56We've opposed it with our respect for revenue check.
34:59But we have some public service jobs.
35:01Yeah, but the... Yeah, yeah.
35:04Dropping the bucket.
35:06True, true.
35:06There is a dropping bucket, too.
35:08No, it's a lot more.
35:09It's a lot more jobs.
35:13Well, if we're talking about...
35:16something that will really decrease the supply of the roads.
35:30I'll find out.
35:31John, we may have to do it.
35:31All right.
35:32I'll take it this way.
35:33Deficits, anything you goddamn please, as far as we're concerned, you cannot have a psychology of it.
35:36But incidentally, I've got to know, is the bill highly restrictive as to where it goes?
35:39No, it's not.
35:40We can throw it into California.
35:41Well, I'll find out about that.
35:42That's enough for me to know.
35:46Yes.
35:49Highly restricted.
35:51Yeah.
35:52That'd be my guess.
35:53Congress probably has to answer that question.
35:55i'll find out i'll find out about those things and get back to him this is one of the reasons that i kind of need to talk to you alone uh george has got a real vested interest in that damn thing and he's got your best interest at heart but at the same time there's some things that we're just got to wheel that way sure nothing else matters is that clear uh yeah perfectly well he doesn't understand well
36:20uh but he doesn't understand what you have to do we'll try not to put a double burden on your time but i really do think always the website really would understand it would be common yeah well i just need to get some clear signals from you and some of these things all right all right
36:47I'll have you go over it and chat with the company.
36:51I think that's the way to do it.
36:53I want to bring him in more, John, for reasons.
37:05One, he's a hell of an advocate.
37:07Second, because politically, the more we can bring him in, the more useful he may be.
37:09We may have to bring him in further.
37:10Well, he's got good judgment.
37:12I think so.
37:13I think he has some railroad here.
37:15That speech was just the right thing to say.
37:18Just tell God and the Europeans to go through.
37:20What would you say a little of that about?
37:24He's a hell of a smart guy.
37:27How did he do today?
37:29I heard he did very well.
37:30Very well.
37:32The whole climate on revenue sharing has changed in the last two weeks.
37:37Will there be a benefit?
37:39Oh, no.
37:39Broder ran a piece yesterday.
37:42I saw Broder's piece.
37:43Well, that's reflective of the change of climate.
37:47And muskie hearings have helped us.
37:51They've been very favorable to Revenue Sheriff.
37:54Has he?
37:55Oh, sure.
37:56Now he is.
37:57Of course, he has the advantage of having been on both sides of the issue.
38:02But, see, he had Heller and Peckman.
38:04And you're going to help us, isn't it, really, with your Revenue Sheriff?
38:08Oh, it's...
38:11I'll tell you, if I were Wilbur Mills and were playing smart politics, I'd fold right now and say, okay, I was wrong, but I see the light, and I'm all for this.
38:21Now let's really go on.
38:23Let's put extra money in there.
38:24Maybe Nelson Rockville is right.
38:25Let's have $10 billion in there.
38:29And everybody would forget that he was against it.
38:32And then we'd have to live with the damn thing.
38:35Now, well, as long as he resists, we'll get a coonskin to hang on the wall for you.
38:42I think we'll get some victories.
38:45I don't know.
38:46I'll have to look at Bob's poll and see.
38:48Maybe not.
38:50I tell you what... No, I don't know that they do.
38:54Well... Maybe they do.
38:55Understand, understand.
38:55I'm sure they do.
38:57I'm sure they do in the foreign policy area.
39:00Well, basically, but they're on the war.
39:04And maybe, maybe with very big deals like Russia and China.
39:09Very little, maybe, somebody should know.
39:12Well, let me argue this way, and I think Conley's right about you having an eye.
39:16Oh.
39:17I think seeing you
39:20Roll up your sleeves, get mad, get in a fight.
39:23Whether you win or lose, get your points.
39:26But if you win, then you get more points.
39:29Now, for instance, last night, on the answers, on the follow-ups on the police, about the third answer, I was ready for you to say, now, just a minute.
39:45Look, let's get something straight here right now.
39:47You and I disagree about this.
39:50I'll never convince you, but just let me make this clear now.
39:53I believe this and this and this and this.
39:57And frankly, I don't care whether you guys like it or not.
40:00I'm listening to the American people on this.
40:03And get a little mad.
40:06And show that you have an enemy.
40:08And that you're defying the enemy.
40:10And that you're standing up for what you think is right.
40:13I think a little combat...
40:15is a good thing at times.
40:18Now, I don't know.
40:19It isn't your style, exactly.
40:21Well, yes.
40:23It was fairly competitive as it was and came through.
40:25But you were so cool.
40:27I mean, you had the thing under control and your answers were rational and you were, you know, you were in charge and so on and so forth.
40:35And you didn't succumb to the slings and arrows and so on.
40:40And you just were serene about the whole thing.
40:42And I think people like to see you take a sling out, I don't know.
40:51I've been thinking about this whole business of, since Bob mentioned this to me, this whole business of what you stand for.
40:58One way to make very clear what you stand for is to take a sling at somebody.
41:06That's what Harry Truman did.
41:11I think last night, I must say, I was a bit tempted to.
41:20Of course, as you know, there's another theory.
41:24The other theory is the theory of, well, the Floyds, the Raid Crisis, and Glenn Parnes, and a lot of other figures, that the people want, I don't know the limit thoroughly, but the people want the president to be above it all, and so forth, taking on issues and problems and so on, and this and that.
41:41I don't have to agree with it.
41:54And I certainly intend to move in the other direction as we go along.
41:59My own belief is that you've got to be quite firm.
42:07Oh, I was quite firm with him.
42:08Oh, sure.
42:10You just weren't me.
42:12No question also that I was on the side of the police.
42:16But on the other hand, I must say that I think that the idea that...
42:25I think I should do it not in the way of losing my temper,
42:30which I would not, but I would just get, by just getting very tough, I'll say, now look here, your, it'll be my shot, look here, you had your say about this.
42:40I know that the great majority of you in the press corps don't agree with you.
42:45And I'll put, make the other part of the press corps, I know you've been writing this.
42:48I said, but I have a responsibility to see this government keep running.
42:51I want to make it, and no group of hoodlums or vandals claiming to be demonstrators are going to stop this government.
42:56Let's get that straight right now.
42:58We're going to do it in the future if they come back into town.
43:02What's the next question?
43:03And I wouldn't have anything to add to that.
43:05What's the next question?
43:06I think there's a difference between being political and picking a fight on an issue, on the merits of an issue.
43:15And I think maybe that, to the extent that somebody says, oh, well, he's just temporizing, just being political, you don't get any credit.
43:25But if you say, I'm, you know, this is a matter of principle here, and a matter of right and wrong, and by God, we get a little worked up.
43:33I think people begin to notice, at least, and they say, oh, I know what he stands for on that.
43:38And we get some visibility on some of these things that we're for.
43:40You get a clearer mark for Kennedy.
43:45Yeah, yeah.
43:47But you said it as the reasonable man.
43:51But everybody says, John, that's the great strength.
43:56I know it.
43:56I know it.
43:57The president can be so cool in light of all this thing.
44:00And Sapphire and all the PR types read it that he's that great.
44:07Well, I may be wrong on that.
44:07Like, for example, that is on television.
44:11and that miserable White House correspondent's name.
44:18I really should have gotten up and said, look here, that was a pretty shot.
44:20You know, I'm having a funny experience along this journey.
44:30Why are you going to be there again?
44:33Well, I know, but see, that's your way.
44:35You'll sit there and take it and you won't say it.
44:38I'll be a gentleman.
44:40I got in a fight with the mayor of Seattle here a while back over the Black Panthers.
44:45He pulled a shoddy deal on our enforcement guys.
44:49And
44:50So I have had more favorable mail as a result of being carried in the local papers trying to make a thing out of it.
44:59I've been getting more favorable mail from people on account of being against this guy than for any other thing we've done.
45:07And I'm beginning to be convinced that Connolly's right, that people size you up by what you're against more than what you're for.
45:15Do the hell of a note.
45:19Well, as a matter of fact, they sliced me up for being against communism for many years.
45:24That's it?
45:24And it wasn't bad.
45:26That's it.
45:27I'm against, frankly, these unions.
45:39Their side is acting it up.
45:40I'm just going to shoot into his being against the press.
45:43I think he's over to play that.
45:44He sounds petty now.
45:44He's getting a little carpy.
45:46He just keeps bringing it up.
45:47What the hell's new?
45:47What's next?
45:48He still lives on CBS.
45:49We're not going to go that soon.
45:50And I don't think he does it well anymore, John.
45:52I'm not going to be critical, but maybe I haven't heard, but I got the impression that
45:55It's getting a whining.
45:56Yeah.
45:56You agree?
45:57Yeah.
45:57I've been reading them in there.
45:59Yeah.
46:00No.
46:00I think, however, I'm in a fairly good position to get a pretty tough on some of these things.
46:09I agree.
46:10Especially on the merits.
46:12I need a little guidance incidentally.
46:16You want to get some monastic students, Mr. President, running humanously and coming onto the grounds here.
46:18You want to get a conservative with some visibility.
46:21There is one appointment that we can make.
46:24to the general counsel of NLRB that will send a signal all the way across the business community, and that's our manager, Dick Burris.
46:33Is he deserving?
46:34Oh boy, is he ever.
46:36He has a master's degree in labor law.
46:38He was on the NLRB staff.
46:41He was on the House Labor Committee minority side.
46:44We've had him here.
46:45But would they, are you sure everybody gets credit on something like that?
46:49Well, that I don't know.
46:50He came in to see me today.
46:51It's the first I'd heard of this situation, and I've got to do some more checking into it.
46:56He says that Jim Hodgson is afraid we will offend labor, and that's the big issue.
47:00Well, see, that's what I don't know.
47:03Is there any way you can offend labor?
47:05Is it a requirement?
47:07Is there any approval?
47:10That I don't know.
47:12That I don't know, and I should know that.
47:16I don't think so.
47:17I think it's just your appointment.
47:22It's a four-year term.
47:25Well, I didn't know what your relationships with Meany and so forth are.
47:33Burris is not popular with either Jim Hudson or George Phillips.
47:38because of a very hard line he took when he was working for Arthur Burns here, when Arthur was on the White House staff, on farm labor problems.
47:47And Burris is very much employer-oriented, and the employer groups all... Well, I think NLRB needs to tilt in that direction.
48:00Well, he sure does.
48:01The only guy that I think is worth talking to on this, actually,
48:04I told Burris that I was going to stay out of it, that I wouldn't get involved.
48:22He was looking for some help from here.
48:25But after he left, I got to thinking that it is plausible, from the standpoint of his qualifications,
48:40That's it.
48:44That's all I have.
48:49Let's see.
48:53How about the Marty engine?
48:58I've got a call in for Tim.
49:01I'll see him as soon as he comes back next time and see if we can get him on full time.
49:12I mean, I think that it would, if you understand that there's, I'm not talking about the bullets here, I'm just talking about the jackasses and things like that.
49:16and a little bit of black in the comments and the rest.
49:27Well, we can use a balance.
49:33And also, he's a damn good man.
49:35He is a damn good man.
49:35He's totally loyal.
49:36And frankly, we do need a balance.
49:37You know, let me tell you, I have the greatest admiration for George.
49:39George is basically a liberal.
49:39He believes it, deeply.
49:40He tries not to be.
49:40Marty will fight very hard, and Marty will fight it.
49:41It'll be a...
49:45I can't wonder if it goes for me or anybody I have offhand.
49:58And how about you, Mike?
50:00I'll tell you who would be as good or perhaps better than Mike.
50:02I doubt Mike would take it, because it would be a slight down for him.
50:07But Harper is quite conservative.
50:11Yeah.
50:12And, uh...
50:14Not really an out front man, but damn confident in that field.
50:20Let me give out a little thought, because I didn't know that Weinberger was a possibility.
50:25Well, there's, I think he's talking to people about it.
50:30I think Flanagan, I think the move to state is really better for Flanagan.
50:37Okay.
50:38Well, maybe harder.
50:39It's a good promotion.
50:40It would be a hell of a promotion for him.
50:44But he is very, he is more conservative, let's say, than anybody else I've got.
50:51And he's a pretty good politician.
50:52I've noticed that.
50:55He played our game.
50:56Yeah, very much so.
50:56All right.
50:58Well, Marty Anderson.
51:04I'll get Marty if he can be done.
51:06I'll, uh, what the hell would you be pointing to?
51:11Well, the only thing I can do is make him a deputy director of the domestic council.
51:14That's the only thing I've got.
51:15That would bring him any kind of money.
51:16Yeah.
51:17On this job thing, you'll figure out what the, uh, how research that bill.
51:31how quick it can have input, right?
51:40And how much will it bring it down?
51:42In other words, if you could bring in a flight of things, I noticed, for example, Renbrae predicts 7% of flight now.
51:45This may be wrong, but it might be right.
51:48But the main thing is, suppose it hangs six all year.
51:52Because then the city has become an insolubility.
52:06And worse things could happen in this bill.
52:12What I'm getting at is that we could get it moving a little.
52:14And also, we could solve a couple little problems in these cities.
52:16One thing, I just don't know.
52:16I haven't looked at it.
52:17It's a CCC approach.
52:18Sometimes some of these guys get out of the cities.
52:19Get them out of the cities.
52:21You have to get out there and put them on heroin.
52:41Well, you run that thing, you run it as a pretty tight operation.
52:42It's paramilitary.
52:43And they're used to it.
52:43I don't know if you can get away with that in this day and age or not.
52:45That's what it ought to be.
52:45You have to clean up the parts, you mean?
52:46Yeah, sure.
52:46They have to do pollution things.
52:47You don't go off rivers to clean them up.
52:48There's all kinds of stuff like that they can do.
52:49And you can't.
52:49They don't get any well out of it.
52:50Explain the difference between...
52:55Well, I don't have much confidence in my advice, but it occurs to me as one of them to get out of the building, because it may never be so obvious.
53:21Yeah, I think an awful lot of people would have immediately rallied to it.
53:24Although a lot of people did anything.
53:34I mean, there's a sympathy reaction from this guy up there.
53:36Yes, sir.
53:36Thank you.
53:36On the other hand,
53:38I wonder if they get some kind of maybe a wound reaction.
53:57No, no.
53:57I don't think you get it from that.
53:58I don't think you can really get mad at a person or a group.
54:01You have to get mad at the issue, you know.
54:02Yes, and you can get mad at heroin pushers and really show you're upset about something like that.
54:04But you can't be as mistaken as picking on Dan Radler or somebody who then you get kind of delighted in.
54:08I think that was fine.
54:16Really, I think so.
54:22I mean, I think it's, you know, the main thing, I try to tell everybody that you've got a personality.
54:25Tell me about a personality.
54:26Yeah, yeah.
54:28Who else?
54:28Damn you.
54:29Kisses.
54:30Oh, yes.
54:39Oh, yeah.
54:41Oh, I see what you mean.
54:48Yeah.
54:48Yeah.
54:48That's right.
54:48Now, all the rest are on the line.
54:49How the hell do they help us?
54:49Well, of course, basically, most of the others are light.
54:51And it's not...
54:51It's not...
54:51It's not...
54:51It's not...
54:52It's not...
54:53And he had made an arrangement with the President that Colgate, he's a member of the Board of Trustees, he went up there, that he said, I will not know if you're going to allow here this confrontation over development.
55:13Everybody had to stand up for one children against the war.
55:15The President said, I agree.
55:17Fifteen minutes before he went on, the President said, I'm sorry, but I was unable to resist the
55:22and they're gonna go ahead and do it.
55:27At that point, rockers should have left the camp.
56:54Who the hell wants to be out of this room?
56:59Robby.
56:59In terms of personalities, Robby makes a ton of hours.
57:01Huh?
57:01Wages aren't ours.
57:03Both of you.
57:03Like Joe?
57:04Right.
57:04Romney comes across as a, as a zealot.
57:09Sincere.
57:10And I think he's put down as sincere and trying.
57:15But at the margin of ability, that's the other thing.
57:29How about Volker?
57:30He's a tight end governor, you know.
57:31How about, you got Alton Farber around there, is he one?
57:33He's not in the interview, I'm sorry.
57:35Now, well, in the business community, he's recognized as a pretty effective advocate, I think.
57:44I think so.
57:44Yeah.
57:46He's got quite a lot of confidence.
57:49There's I can size it up.
57:50But as far as personalities are concerned, there's no standout.
57:53And by now, you know, presidential temper ought to be cropping up.
57:58Hard enough.
58:08Hard enough.
58:11I think one of those, the only one for you is presidential.
58:15It just came to me, there are only two.
58:19One is, of course, Tom.
58:20And the other is Richardson.
58:21Richardson's a classic, different style.
58:22Richardson, however, Richardson's not weak.
58:23No, and I think he's a widower Wilson type.
58:26In a certain time in the country, I would guess,
58:28that Richardson would be very appealing.
58:35I think he would have been.
58:36I'm not sure.
58:37I'm just not sure.
58:58That's it, they're breaking into the others.
59:15They've got quite a ghetto.
59:16Well, and the people that are in it are very dedicated.
59:37Yeah, that's true.
59:40It's like people that are in boys' lunch.
59:41Now, thank you.
59:41Thank you.
59:42Mr. President, Mr. President, I'd like to meet Mr. Stephanie.
59:43Well, how are you?
59:43Very good.
59:44They have water.
59:44This is very good.
59:44Why don't we show them again?
59:45This is a better picture.
59:45Here we are.
59:48You just walk like this, right?
1:00:03Yeah, we got this all set up.
1:00:34Well, Mr. President, this is our advisory committee, and Mr. Phillips is the chairman of it.
1:00:43I've seen him run back and say that he's taking them all outside after they're all in position to go to class.
1:00:46Well, I want to tell you that I'm delighted to have the chance to see all of you personally.
1:01:03I'm sorry they all can't come in here.
1:01:04I mean, all of them.
1:01:07A lot of them were taken before.
1:01:07But are you having a good meeting here at that?
1:01:09How many of you have been in Washington before?
1:01:28How many of you have been to a jamboree?
1:01:28Have you had a jamboree since you've been scouted?
1:01:31No, I mean, you know, they go there five years, you know.
1:01:47Oh, you've probably missed.
1:01:47I just remembered when I was in the general league way back.
1:01:51I remember when Irvine, Atlanta, she helped our team to try to reach the stand in 1954.
1:01:55And then about 15 years later, I, uh, you know, five years later, uh, I recall we had one up in Stonyport.
1:01:58We were 50,000 scouts, uh, all.
1:02:00They light candles at the end, which is one of the most impressive things you've probably heard about.
1:02:22But I'm certainly grateful for the leadership that you have provided for our many explorers.
1:02:26How old are you?
1:02:28What is all your age group here?
1:02:29The oldest, how old do you mean to be?
1:02:30You're 21?
1:02:3418.
1:02:35About at that age group, right?
1:02:4214 to 21.
1:02:44Right, I'm 19.
1:02:4614 to 21.
1:02:47So let's give them something to be happy with.
1:02:56And we're going to give them, for individual photographs and pictures that I have of them.
1:03:12The two leaders.
1:03:13This office has the seal and the sealer here, the presidential seal.
1:03:20And these are the presidential complex with the seal on them.
1:03:23So I have to give you each one of them.
1:03:31We have a pretty girl to take you out.
1:04:02All right.
1:04:09You refer to yourself as an explorer, right?
1:04:25It's a brand new way of saying this, right?
1:04:25Meaning it's seven through six.
1:04:26How many young ladies do you think you have with the explorers?
1:04:27Well, right now, we've just expanded the other half of them.
1:04:29And I think that's the thing.
1:04:29I don't know if that's going to pay for this particular function.
1:04:31They come out of Girl Scouts?
1:04:45No, these are explorers.
1:04:46Explorer.
1:04:46Yeah, that's the...
1:04:46Allowing them to become explorers.
1:04:48They can't do it in a team.
1:04:49No.
1:04:49Yeah, what is it?
1:04:50Explorers.
1:05:01Explorers, that's right, of course.
1:05:09I understand, I understand.
1:05:18You're not really
1:05:19There's three phases of it.
1:05:36The oldest, which is the sea-sky, or sea-exploring, the three-dress, which is the military, and the nation, which is you, the nation, the border, and the sea.
1:05:41And it's great entertainment.
1:05:42Excuse me, sir.
1:05:42What's your state?
1:05:42Rochester, New York.
1:05:43Rochester.
1:05:43I'm going to be up there in July.
1:05:45We were supposed to come earlier, the regional briefing, and it got snowed out.
1:05:46So I didn't know it was going to be sometime in the middle of July or so.
1:05:48I'm going to be up here.
1:05:48It's a beautiful city.
1:05:49Bill will be to your left Mr. President.
1:06:12and there will be some musical fans there, an announcement, and some other music, and you'll walk down the steps there.
1:06:21Commander Campbell will direct you to the second chute.
1:06:28We'll just go right up to the platform, sir.
1:06:29Bill will go directly to the microphone and present you to this platform.
1:06:31Just basically an appreciation of your time and gesture.
1:06:32Just a few sentences, and then you respond, and we'll depart.
1:06:36Smash.
1:07:05Oh,
1:08:01Well, come on in.
1:08:20I'll do this for you.
1:08:21Isn't that the first voice they see?
1:08:24Yes, sir.
1:08:25All right.
1:08:26Thank you.
1:08:27Talk all day.
1:08:27Four to eight hours.
1:08:27Oh, God, she's quick.
1:08:28Right on time.
1:08:28Let's go to the corner, too.
1:08:29Yeah, let's go, too.
1:08:33He was waxing up.
1:08:45Yeah.
1:08:45Yeah.
1:09:11They're one of the few Americans, well, they're not really one of the many young kids in America that are okay.
1:09:39We tend to get to them and obsess over these next-generation kids.
1:09:42I'm sure there's an awful lot of them that are affected by others, young people all the time.
1:10:05These are different people than kids.
1:10:06It's quite a good organization to see a nice place like this.
1:10:07You have to do a good job of the flag and all that sort of thing.
1:10:09I'm all for it, absolutely.
1:10:10Took a year to get rid of the shears.
1:10:20Got a lot of merit badges done as we've made people, scouts didn't stay with us that long.
1:10:30We moved back from San Julio.
1:10:35Lieutenant Floresville didn't even have a scout troop.
1:10:36The kids all worked, too.
1:10:37Oh, they didn't have time.
1:10:37Oh, there's four others.
1:10:38Four of them, indeed.
1:10:38Well, tell me first, how did they get on with your testimony?
1:10:40I thought, well, it's an antagonistic committee, obviously.
1:10:56It's very obvious.
1:10:59It's very obvious that it's antagonistic.
1:11:01I thought the testimony went well.
1:11:02The story of the early edition of the Star is a good story.
1:11:09It says...
1:11:09They sit there, they nitpick the dance.
1:11:18Right, right.
1:11:24They just sit and say, well, why does Mr. San Bernardino get more than the cop?
1:11:30Right.
1:11:30All of a sudden, they're like, this is interesting.
1:11:31You know, we're here.
1:11:31We're here.
1:11:32We're here.
1:11:32We're here.
1:11:32We're here.
1:11:32We're here.
1:11:33And Sam Gibbons was a nitpicker, you know.
1:11:43Sam Gibbons from Florida, he's a Democrat.
1:11:46I don't know.
1:11:47Oh, he's no good.
1:11:50But on the Republican side, I must say, they all did exceedingly well.
1:11:52They sure did.
1:11:53They sure did.
1:11:54And John Washington thought he did it.
1:11:57John Washington couldn't do it.
1:11:57I don't have any problems about the following one.
1:11:59Louisiana Wax Wipers.
1:12:11It couldn't have been more precious.
1:12:14It couldn't have been better.
1:12:17It couldn't have been better.
1:12:21Burt, one of my assistants, made a demagogic general statement about, you know, he wouldn't know how this was going to be delivered.
1:12:23It wasn't going to be delivered to an institutional corporation, or it wasn't going to be delivered by SLED.
1:12:26It's all about the fact that all the manpower is in the same car, you know.
1:12:27And that means just a matter of class AQ.
1:12:30But I thought it went quite well.
1:12:40We were just...
1:12:41There was a lot more support there, John.
1:12:42As I said last night to you, Mills has a committee and you've got the country.
1:12:47Well, I think that's right.
1:12:48By God, he knows this.
1:12:49And Ford is playing a very hard game with him.
1:12:50He's... Jerry Ford, he's...
1:12:51I think he should, don't you?
1:12:53He should.
1:12:53Get a vote.
1:12:54Get a vote.
1:12:54And that's what I said.
1:12:55I did step out of the blue.
1:12:56and, uh, was interviewed, uh... Would you prefer it?
1:13:11Honestly, I've got to hold it until 12 p.m. because he's got to start the code and start everything else.
1:13:13I ran into a doctor out there.
1:13:14You know him, W. Harold?
1:13:15Harold.
1:13:15You know him?
1:13:15Harold.
1:13:15I don't even know him.
1:13:23You know, we deducted over 50 pounds of heroin custom stamps in the last week.
1:13:42And that translates back to about 3,000 pounds.
1:13:43I mean, let's call it, let's call it, let's call it, let's call it,
1:13:51Now, I don't see what the procedure is, John.
1:13:55The procedure is such and such that they're the law enforcement.
1:14:02That's what they work for.
1:14:03Oh, yes.
1:14:03But he's over the secret service.
1:14:04He's over the customs.
1:14:08He's over the wind.
1:14:11John, I'm sitting here talking to John Conley.
1:14:13I was wondering, Mark, since we're expanding that from the food state, if we should have maybe...
1:14:18He was talking about this capture of the crash area here.
1:14:19Wait a minute, wait a minute.
1:14:37No, don't do it.
1:14:39I'd rather receive, if it's on this problem with drugs, I'd rather receive it because you know more about it.
1:14:45He's got it.
1:14:46He says that he could come.
1:14:47He's got a terrible cold, you know, and so forth, which he just been under.
1:14:54He says he would rather receive you to come on this occasion than he could.
1:14:58Because I'd be at the committee for a team.
1:15:00You're on it.
1:15:02You are a captain right now in the department, yeah.
1:15:06Well, I'm... Yeah.
1:15:06How many people are you going to have in total?
1:15:10Oh, that's all right, that'll take, the room will take that easy enough.
1:15:23And tell them that if they're too crowded in that one room, to put a blue room there, you know.
1:15:26Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:15:27Okay, fine, I'll talk to them.
1:15:27What, what, the only reason I'm sitting here, you're, I'm heading where the service secretaries all the, all the service chiefs,
1:15:40Well, I have to be back to committee at 10.
1:16:02You do?
1:16:02Well, I have to leave at 9.30, I guess.
1:16:03See you then.
1:16:03Yeah, and of course, I'll be there too.
1:16:05Let me suggest this idea to the teacher.
1:16:06It might be good idea.
1:16:07If it isn't good, then put it out.
1:16:07I just think the idea...
1:16:08He had the top people there.
1:16:28He couldn't come at 8, 8 o'clock, and then leave.
1:16:29That's why I thought that you wanted to prepare for the committee.
1:16:31Then you leave in time.
1:16:31How's that?
1:16:31That's why I'm leaving now.
1:16:32You have to check the hell out.
1:16:33No, no, I don't.
1:16:33I don't want you to.
1:16:33No, I don't.
1:16:34He had these people around him.
1:16:34Yeah, that worked.
1:16:35It worked.
1:16:35You could come.
1:16:35See him.
1:16:35I'll tell you what I love about your job.
1:16:36I'm too excited to do everything.
1:16:38We've got to put it at the highest level.
1:16:50So next week, the House will be more money, new legislation and so forth, and we'll be with a presidential hat in hand in charge.
1:16:54So, we're going to put it up here.
1:17:25So that's what we want to do.
1:17:49They know you're there.
1:17:50I'll come because I've created this.
1:18:05I don't want to keep Bill gone, but I'm going to talk to Jack Irwin and be sure he keeps the pressure on the Turks because they have to make their decision to sue their farmers by the end of this month, by June 30th, for the crop next year.
1:18:13And what we'll check that we've been able to do, hell, we figure if we have to, we can buy the whole crop and let's free them from hell.
1:18:17I don't know what's going to happen.
1:18:20What is that?
1:18:23Well, I don't know, except what Bill says.
1:18:33Now, let me ask you this.
1:18:33Who is that?
1:18:33Are you going to have a kiss with him there?
1:18:36Yes.
1:18:37That's good.
1:18:37Now, I just talked to John about this, you know, and he's hot for buying that crap from the church.
1:18:41And Errol is going to be there.
1:18:44You know, the state drags its feet on this.
1:18:46And I want Henry to know in advance that, God damn it, that's what we're going to do.
1:18:51Don't you agree?
1:18:53Do you see any objection to it?
1:18:55They say there's political problems and the rest, but I think our political problem is infinitely greater on this, John.
1:19:08And Churchill.
1:19:08Yeah.
1:19:08Yeah.
1:19:08Yeah.
1:19:09This basically, yeah.
1:19:09Mm-hmm.
1:19:11Oh, another meeting, another meeting, yeah.
1:19:18Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see.
1:19:19Well, then we can have the second meeting on the problems abroad.
1:19:23I get your point.
1:19:24All right, all right.
1:19:25But be sure Henry knows that when that comes up, we're to lean against the, and against the foreign policy guys.
1:19:32We are going to lean to the economy position.
1:19:36Fair enough.
1:19:41From our investigation, we buy the whole crop for less than $3 million, and might even not spend more than that for a two-year period.
1:19:58While I find a substitute crop, oh my God, this is peanuts compared to what it costs us to try to interdict the damn stuff, to intercept it, and prosecute these smugglers.
1:20:03And if we buy the whole crop and drive the opium stride, then we belong to them, of course.
1:20:10I think we've worked up some of these big range.
1:20:20But this one and 50 pounds of pure arrow that you've captured in the last week are incredible seizures.
1:20:28This represents about three tons of raw opium.
1:20:29Three tons of it.
1:20:30Now, you have Puerto Rico there.
1:20:31Well, we've got Puerto Rico, Florida, and maybe the others in New York.
1:20:35I think we've got to be real tough.
1:20:52Understand, the addict is a different matter.
1:20:55You treat them.
1:20:57But the push, who is not an addict, in other words,
1:21:01There's some who are pushing because they're trying to help their customers.
1:21:16But I've got these people, you know, that make money out of this kind of thing.
1:21:19They're refining, really transporting, and these are elaborate schemes that they go to.
1:21:22We've got to smuggle this stuff into this country.
1:21:25That's unbelievable.
1:21:26Of course, it's such a normal sacrifice.
1:21:28Well, we ought to be able to begin to get some information out of New York, too, because this much of what we see ought to be brought to market somewhere.
1:21:52Unless they've got a tremendous inventory, and of course what they'll start doing is cutting it more.
1:21:54They'll dilute it more to make it go further.
1:21:56My God, I've seen this much of uncut heroin.
1:22:05This is purely uncut stuff.
1:22:06Why, it's got to affect this market.
1:22:09So, out of it, we made something might develop.
1:22:23Some of these people might start swinging and see if they can't get it.
1:22:27The price goes too high.
1:22:29It's got to have an effect.
1:22:30It's got to have an effect.
1:22:31How was this done?
1:22:31I haven't gotten the details.
1:22:32But they watched this plane, one of the planes that came in from South America.
1:22:34It was a jet.
1:22:34It had a special compartment built into it.
1:22:35And the customs people
1:22:36stayed on them and watched it.
1:22:43And five days later, I mean, captured 13 of them, most of them South Americans, who were importing this stuff.
1:22:53And that is why I brought the boys in.
1:22:58I was talking to Peter Siege about it today.
1:22:59We were gonna try to give them some kind of, I don't know, like a war medal for a meritorious service or something to try to... You break a stone, like you said,
1:23:06I like the man that did it.
1:23:09Yes.
1:23:12Customs officers.
1:23:12Because these are three of the biggest halls in the history
1:23:14Customs Commission.
1:23:27How many do you want?
1:23:30How many of you want to bring them in?
1:23:31Bring them in.
1:23:31That's great.
1:23:32You bring them in.
1:23:32Let me get their names.
1:23:32We'll just bring them in.
1:23:33We need to give them a certificate.
1:23:34I got a presidential thing.
1:23:34I need a certificate of appreciation for outstanding service.
1:23:36That's a great sign.
1:23:36That'll do.
1:23:37God damn, that's a reward to people who really like that.
1:23:45Get some pictures made and you can recount the stories about these captains who made money because I think you can also write up the story or something like that.
1:23:52I hear some of these out here.
1:23:55What is the situation with regard to all of this?
1:23:57Sure.
1:23:58I guess there isn't a hell of a lot more to talk about there.
1:24:19Now, it's not a great deal to me.
1:24:20I thought it was pretty good that the crisis was over.
1:24:21It is that the situation now is cool, that at the present time we still have a long-range problem of, as you pointed out, of our opening up markets and making more competitive and so forth and so on.
1:24:25In this way, we must not do anything
1:24:26because of international monetary fluctuation, which hurts our economy at all.
1:24:45Is that a basic cost?
1:24:45Yes, sir.
1:24:45Yes, sir.
1:24:47Is that what you want to say?
1:24:49Yes, sir.
1:24:49I really think, and I'm not prepared to recommend it, but I really think, as you go along, you ought to give some thought, we all ought to give some thought as to how much we want to push
1:24:55How do you want to push the formation of the European community?
1:25:08Now, we all go along assuming that this is going to be good.
1:25:11Well, I'm not sure it's going to be good.
1:25:12I'm not a bit sure it's going to be good.
1:25:14I am convinced that the European community, when it's formed, is going to be formed as the third force in the world.
1:25:18They're going to try to develop, in the first place, there will be a bigger trading block than we are.
1:25:22In many ways, it's going to be more industrious than we are.
1:25:24They're going to be more protectionist than we are, because each one of the individuals is going to assume that he doesn't have to do anything to protect himself.
1:25:38And yet, collectively, they're going to be a bigger trading force in the world markets than we are.
1:25:40They're not going to build the defenses.
1:25:41They're still going to look to us to carry the burden of the defenses, but they are going to create their own currency.
1:25:44And they're going to do it not to supplement, but to supplant the dollar.
1:25:55They're envious of us.
1:25:57They don't want the economic domination of the United States.
1:25:59They don't want to be reliant on the dollar.
1:26:00And they're envious as hell.
1:26:02Now, I don't care what anybody tells them.
1:26:03That's the way they're going to react.
1:26:04And they're going to try to get in a position where they can drive us through the wall as fast as they can.
1:26:07I don't even need 10 years to do it.
1:26:08It's the national mandate.
1:26:21I know I do it all myself all the time.
1:26:22You know, we were all very European to be on the Marshall Plan.
1:26:23Very European to be on the Marshall Plan.
1:26:24Well, anyway, I'm not so sure about that, sir.
1:26:25I'm not sure what I'm starting to realize so far.
1:26:26Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:26:27That's right.
1:26:27That's the British.
1:26:28They have a hell of a problem.
1:26:29Maybe we ought to be in reunion with the British.
1:26:37I'm not sure we ought to be in reunion with the British, and the Japanese, and the Australians, and maybe a few in Thailand, and close to us, and in the Left Bureau.
1:26:43We've got defense problems, I know, in Russia, in proximity to Germany, and all of this involved.
1:26:53But I think he can arrive at...
1:26:53I think you've got a good point here.
1:26:55Well, I think it's worth subscribing.
1:27:01I just don't think we ought to just go along and blindly assume that the formation of the European community is going to be in the best interest of the United States.
1:27:26We're going to be back here if we're not killed.
1:27:33With Canada, who again is jealous of this license, and with South America, Mexico and South America, that we have no real community measures with now.
1:27:40They resent us.
1:27:40They're laughing at us.
1:27:42They live in a different world, under different orders, different standards than what the Western Europeans do.
1:27:54We're based in the Western European economy.
1:27:57We're not Mexicans.
1:27:58We're not Indians.
1:27:59We're not South Americans.
1:28:01We've got a few in Texas and California, true or not.
1:28:05So I don't want us to be tied economically just to this Western Hemisphere, because I don't think it's an argument.
1:28:10But anyway.
1:28:11I'll get off that subject to say to you that there's nothing for us to do.
1:28:50April was the second biggest month in history, and over 100% bigger than April a year ago.
1:29:03But anyway, at some point, you can go to the point where you have too many countries floating, and the American businessman, as the vessels overseas, will get disturbed.
1:29:17He'll not know what to do.
1:29:19what's in store for them.
1:29:25It will begin to affect our investments overseas, and thus the foreign currencies that our American companies earn, which is now becoming very considerable item.
1:29:35But this happened to us in the 30s before Bretton Woods, because during the Depression days,
1:29:41you couldn't get any stability of currencies.
1:29:46Every currency was floating with respect to every other currency.
1:29:51And almost every day, you'd have a different value for every currency in the world.
1:29:54So that things were so unstable in an international monetary sense that nobody wanted to do any trading, because they didn't want to do any trading for them.
1:30:03And you almost went back to a barter system.
1:30:06Now, we can't go quite that far, but so far as few of these currencies floating, it doesn't really help us.
1:30:11And we want the whole monetary system to grow up, and I don't think it's going to.
1:30:27I don't think it's about to.
1:30:28They don't have any place to go but us, and we might as well make the most of it.
1:30:31The dollar is a reserve currency.
1:30:33I do think in our own interest, not in their interest, but in our own interest, we have to improve our trade position because there are basically three things that we're not going to change.
1:30:38I assume we're not going to change.
1:30:40But I hope when Willie Brant comes over here next month, this month, this month, this month, that you will, in the middle of June, that you will just say to him, you know, you all said, well, that's $16 million.
1:30:57You say you've got $4 million that you want.
1:30:58You've got $16 million to reserve.
1:30:59It's better shape than we are.
1:31:00You contribute approximately 4% of your gross national product to defense.
1:31:02We contribute $9 million.
1:31:02And we think you ought to pay some more for those troops that you have.
1:31:11We just think you ought to help pay for them.
1:31:15We don't mind doing it.
1:31:16We're not going to lessen our average for the common defense.
1:31:19But we sure think you ought to pay more.
1:31:21It's not going to be easy for you.
1:31:22Any more than it's easy for us.
1:31:25But when we get to the point where you have an international crisis, as you call it, versus Lamar, then it's easier for you to do it than us.
1:31:28And I think you probably know who's with him.
1:31:30But we have to assume that three things are going to happen.
1:31:35Number one, we have to maintain for the foreseeable future our military commitments around the world.
1:31:45No one else can do that but us.
1:31:47Now, this doesn't mean that other nations can't help pay for it in a more equitable fashion, because they can.
1:31:52But secondly, we have to recognize that we're a nation of travelers.
1:31:58and we're going to have a net outflow of money which runs about three billion dollars a year on the church and you're creating more apartments that's right and you really can't stop it no real effective way of shopping so that's going to be an outflow the third point is we give a lot of money uh and we permit a lot of gifts
1:32:21This is bonds for Israel.
1:32:25This is the only general-purpose bonds in the world that are sold with no taxes on them or anything.
1:32:36It's a gift.
1:32:36But politically, you can't stop that.
1:32:41That's going to continue.
1:32:41I'm not so sure.
1:32:41Well, maybe.
1:32:42But anyway, that's an area.
1:32:44And then the foreign investments.
1:32:46I think at least for the present, we've got to continue to permit our business to make investments overseas.
1:32:53Now this runs a lot of them.
1:32:55This runs into a lot of money every year.
1:32:57But these four areas, we probably are not going to change right now.
1:33:04That being true, we're going to continue to have, in my judgment, increasingly bigger deficits in our official funds, balance payments, unless we do make some very strong moves to improve our trading position, be it Canada, Japan, the economy, the market, agriculture, commodities, and other things.
1:33:26We've got to make a difference somewhere.
1:33:27There's no other way to do it.
1:33:28And this is in our interest, not just to say we've got a balanced payment for the surplus, but in order to provide the jobs here in the economic expansion.
1:33:47Because this is what trade really means to us.
1:33:48But beyond that, I don't think we concern ourselves, nor you should concern yourself with this international market.
1:33:51Let me ask you again.
1:33:52You've got defense.
1:33:53We're Asian travelers.
1:33:54We're investors.
1:33:55and then the fourth is the gifts, the public gifts.
1:34:17Well, we do such things as this.
1:34:18Yesterday I told Bob Woodruff to get the world back to the states and voting, all along to Bolivia.
1:34:26Well, I did it for this reason.
1:34:33The World Bank has an unwritten rule that they will offer rules to nations that have exported properties without compensation.
1:34:43But believe me, I said that I had a lot of properties without compensation.
1:34:44They've taken it from the Gulf.
1:34:45They've taken it from the Middle East.
1:34:46They've taken it from another company, the three major expropriations.
1:34:56They haven't paid them a dime.
1:34:57Now they're saying to us, they're saying to the United States, to the Inter-American Development Bank, the World Bank, well, we don't pay you enough with all these oil properties provided.
1:35:03The United States insists and sees that we get a loan to the pipeline to Argentina so we can sell this gas.
1:35:08We don't pay you enough over a 20-year period of 3% interest.
1:35:13Well, that's a general.
1:35:14That's enough.
1:35:29That's a general statement.
1:35:31That's a general statement.
1:35:32That's an expropriation department.
1:35:35If we don't see that they get to the level to build a pipeline, so they can make a hell of a lot of money after 48 hours.
1:35:39But anyway, I said, just abstain.
1:35:39I said, we need to fight this bump now.
1:35:40I said, you're allowed to.
1:35:41I mean, by all means.
1:35:41We're still doing this and that.
1:35:42But these things keep coming up.
1:35:42I'm going to start firing the computers.
1:35:44At some point, we've got to have a decision about how we're going to react to these things.
1:35:56We held it up for three days to begin with, to try to send work.
1:36:14And I just told them to abstain, to be damn sure they got the message.
1:36:22And I'm going to have lunch with Bob tomorrow.
1:36:24And they try to make him insist on a policy that no World Bank loan will be made to any country that has expropriated properties and without some definite plans of compensation.
1:36:46And I think that's on the track.
1:36:48That's good.
1:36:48Including that debt opportunity.
1:36:49These other children are out, all of the children.
1:36:51They're playing their, right now they're saying they're not going to pay, but I doubt that they will.
1:36:53I'd like to program the kids and the teens in the future.
1:37:10Let me come back to the domestic economy more.
1:37:12I've got to talk about, did you have a chance to sort of break more charges?
1:37:15Oh, yeah.
1:37:15We went over to the Archer.
1:37:16Archer, let me see.
1:37:17All right.
1:37:17I feel so strongly, John, that you're right.
1:37:18We never got to put, let me put it this way, knowing nothing about these subjects,
1:37:25I think the dollar is sound only because of the American economy.
1:37:36The best way to keep the dollar sound is to make the American dollar and the American economy more sound.
1:37:43You can't keep the dollar sound.
1:37:45Now, how do you make the American economy sound?
1:37:46Well, my God, we've got to do it.
1:37:47We've got to do it.
1:37:47First of all, we've got to keep the inflation under control as much as we can.
1:37:49But we've got to see this economy moves up.
1:38:06And it must be done.
1:38:08That means more productivity and reduction of all these other things.
1:38:10If it doesn't move, the difficult thing is that the American Congress react to the people.
1:38:12We've got an invitation.
1:38:13They will do things.
1:38:14We will be faced with a situation that could be very, very bad in the economy.
1:38:15We'll move down the road.
1:38:16I don't know why.
1:38:16You know what's going to happen.
1:38:18Now, we have one problem we're going to have in the very near future, and which I'd like for you to think about.
1:38:40I asked her earlier to roll her and see what happened.
1:38:41There's a bill that I vetoed last year, and it didn't change much.
1:38:43It's a bill provided by the Public Service Office.
1:38:44It's in the lookup of the EPA.
1:38:44We have our, and our, we have a bill as a substitute for it.
1:38:47It's a better bill.
1:39:01It provides a $330,000 public service job, but not this huge one.
1:39:09This would cost $2,000.
1:39:11Done.
1:39:11We need to face the proposition where the Congress will turn down our manpower and share it with them and send it down here for signature or a veto.
1:39:14Their bill.
1:39:14Their bill providing for $8.5 or $2,000 in public service jobs.
1:39:16I personally think it's the wrong law to do anything wrong.
1:39:34Correction and all that shit.
1:39:38I don't believe this.
1:39:39We've got to take a decision.
1:39:39See, these jobs, I think these jerks aren't safe and so forth and so on.
1:39:41Maybe we should allow them to see the logic.
1:39:42But the main thing that I'd ask for a check is to see
1:39:45In the event that that is what we're faced with, whether we ought to consider going along and use it for the purpose of trying to make a dent
1:40:10Not in the unemployment in terms of its real sense, but in terms basically of the .
1:40:31I personally believe that if we didn't have the problems with Congress and elections and so forth, that if I applied for an estate at six or six and a half or even go up to seven, they'd probably get about that much as they could be coming for a year or two.
1:40:38Politically, I have feared
1:40:39that if it stays at six or goes up to six and a half or so for the balance of the issue here, that then it may become a political issue that will become so
1:40:55embedded in the public mind, because it will be very difficult, even if it starts to come down, if it stays too long, if you get what I'm trying to say.
1:41:13Now, what I mean is that it may be that we will have to consider, and I haven't decided that, but I want you to think about it politically, because I've got the money, kind of politically.
1:41:21What if maybe we take this jackass bill, assuming that it can provide the jobs, maybe for the purpose of something to reduce
1:41:25the unemployment number .
1:41:35And when we come in the next year, the economy's moving along .
1:41:42And having started in that college, that's basically just something to think about.
1:41:50The other side of the coin .
1:41:51And all of this is important.
1:41:54I still believe, or I believe that, and, uh, economists and economists will come up with challenges and just, all right, now, do inflation hold to the economy?
1:42:15Inflation, inflation is not going to, uh, to, in my view, unless on that point I say it's, uh,
1:42:18Inflation is going to continue to be a concern.
1:42:34The fact that in the first quarter, and going frankly through the month of April, it was one half of what it was last year, the rate of inflation is highly significant.
1:42:39I have looked at the wholesale prices of each other's bodies, and what is the least
1:42:41somewhat encouraging about that is that, as far as manufacturing prices are concerned, they did not rise.
1:42:52They were pretty much settled.
1:42:53This is food.
1:42:53Food came up and ran with the food that made all the farmers.
1:42:58If you reflect on the farmers, you get that.
1:43:07They don't have that problem.
1:43:08Farmers, again, they don't have money.
1:43:10Anyway, now that I'm saying this, let us suppose
1:43:13looking at this economy and where it matters to the economy.
1:43:25I suppose if we, if we see, if we move along, and we'll take another look at the numbers, I'd say the difference in the name is not showing.
1:43:39And if it's moving along, that's not a question.
1:43:40It's looking at our home,
1:43:42where we have a chance to manage the germs of stimulus.
1:44:03And looking at the equation, of course, we have a question as to what we would do if that happened.
1:44:08Now, our career, of course, you know, is just totally committed to setting up a wage price for it.
1:44:10You don't want to stay at an income policy plan.
1:44:11I've got faith in it.
1:44:12I personally have a strong conviction that on that, that all this preaching and so forth, some people cannot work.
1:44:34And I'm willing to put the thing straight in the eye if we have to at a later time.
1:44:35But I think temporizing it, temporizing it at this point is not the right thing.
1:44:38I know that there are things that are political in Manchester.
1:44:40to be very, very transitory, if after five to six months, not that inflation continues to go up.
1:44:59We can slowly hold it, maybe next year.
1:45:02When it's too late, I don't know whether it works or not.
1:45:03I think we might seriously consider it, if we have a continued problem.
1:45:09If it were to have the economy in school, the inflation is the issue.
1:45:26Just slightly on the wage price freeze.
1:45:26I'm not trying to get you to give any answers now, but what I want you to do, because you will see this from a political standpoint, as well as from an economic standpoint, we've got to deploy a political economy.
1:45:39have it like all the weapons we've got, and remember this one thing, that there's nothing more important than having this economy look good in November, I mean not in November, but September and October of next year.
1:46:00I've been talking about the international front, we're going to look pretty good.
1:46:02We're going to look good because we're going to have the American law taken on.
1:46:03We will have made progress in the China problem, probably.
1:46:06But the war, sir, that is, sir, either of the other two will be ahead of them and we'll kind of end it up, but it's going to be ahead of them or we give it away.
1:46:17You know, in this deal with the Russians, we have an extremely insensitive problem because the Russians have learned nothing.
1:46:24I'm just aware of it, but it's hard for us to have it.
1:46:39But the deal we have, the deal that we've been making with Russians, and I tell that to many people, I mean, we're going to free some offensive weapons in exchange for the evening, and we're going to put it on the permanent thing.
1:46:47We've been getting permanent, it's ready to go, and they need that very badly for their deal with the Germans.
1:46:50Or really, if they screw this up, we try to be able to pull that back.
1:46:59So there's a chance for a deal with the Russians.
1:47:09There are things going on with China then.
1:47:11But I'm not telling you about who.
1:47:12But there are extremists in the American system.
1:47:14What I'm here to say is that next year is the start of this whole situation.
1:47:18could turn out to be the only major issue of the campaign next year.
1:47:38Because basically, people say, well, sure.
1:47:39So you're going to have more initiative.
1:47:40People will be stealing about something else.
1:47:42And they've got this, but by my God, what about the economy?
1:47:45Now, with that in mind,
1:47:47I think that we've got to look at a way to play this game to look good by the time the election comes around.
1:47:59And we cannot think in terms, we just cannot think in terms of, well,
1:48:02What's going to happen to the individual models today?
1:48:12It's five years from now.
1:48:17What's going to happen to the election models?
1:48:18You know, I had to take on, as I did, I took on Johnson, not personally, but I took on the $28 million deficit that he had in 1968.
1:48:24You know, if I could have done exactly the same thing, for Christ's sakes, you know what I mean?
1:48:26He was seeing to it that the economy was goddamn good in the election.
1:48:29Right?
1:48:30That's why he did it.
1:48:31Now, sure, if that was the time of full employment, you're on $20 million next.
1:48:40But he was being that insured that if Dan here worked, the war would have been such a horrible drag after he won the election.
1:48:47Now, what we come on now, we are Dan Poole's.
1:48:54I think we're Dan Poole's.
1:48:55We want to do the right thing.
1:48:57But we're damn fools to allow, to put ourselves in the way, either to put ourselves in the way, or to fail to do those things with the economy that we could do, that will assure our not having a negative issue on the economy.
1:49:17And I would put it in a larger context.
1:49:20Or for reasons that the Democratic nominee, John, is willing to be either
1:49:24It isn't going to be Stu Jackson.
1:49:29And it isn't going to be Walter Ramos.
1:49:31I mean, they, uh, Stu is going to get a hell of a rough fight over Stu Van Gogh.
1:49:35You know, I mean, that's the, that's the fact.
1:49:38Due to the fact that, uh, it's not because of Vietnam, it's because he's hard-line on Russia.
1:49:46Although, he's very hard-line.
1:49:46He'd be in a whole lot of fight tonight.
1:49:49He's, well, will be hard-line, you know what I mean?
1:49:51He could be president, so could Stu.
1:49:54As far as these other three are concerned, just speaking of the, speaking first of the foreign policy, speaking second of the economy, speaking third of the school attitude, her messages with regard to violence and so forth, all three of those guys
1:50:11Sir, I think we've got to be prepared to do what we're supposed to do.
1:50:22You see, this is not happening.
1:50:26There, sir.
1:50:26That's the way I feel about it.
1:50:28I don't know how you talk about it.
1:50:29I don't even see what I do.
1:50:30I agree with you.
1:50:31I was going to say, I can't talk this way to Charles.
1:50:32I can't hurt him.
1:50:32I started this.
1:50:33Basically, you started this.
1:50:34We have to do whatever we need to do.
1:50:36to be sure that if you get rid of it, that none of these straight on.
1:50:58That's what's important.
1:50:59Because what's going to happen for the next four years?
1:51:00They're going to run a hundred.
1:51:02I've got my organization.
1:51:03I've tried to stimulate them to generate some ideas for you.
1:51:09I've insisted now that all our top people have, by Friday and noon,
1:51:13some ideas every single week.
1:51:25And we're going to have, if this comes up, you know, I don't know if we're going to produce anything, but at least try to stimulate them to think about it.
1:51:31Think about what's happening in their area.
1:51:32It's going to benefit them.
1:51:33One parent said he said, I don't know whether it's up to him, whether it's the children's opportunities that you've got back.
1:51:36We've talked about it for the organization thing.
1:51:39Where is it that we...
1:51:39i know you know i agree with you on the wage and price board the only reason for a wage and price board
1:52:10is to try to be able to say, well, it didn't work.
1:52:19But if you do that, then you have to be prepared to take the next step, which is to go all the way.
1:52:24And you ought not to institute, unless you're prepared, unless you're prepared.
1:52:27I have no question about that, because it's not going to work.
1:52:30It's not going to work.
1:52:31It has to work for itself.
1:52:33Never.
1:52:33And then you hurt yourself more than you help.
1:52:34Now, the question I can turn over to my group, which I haven't discussed with you all, is whether you all are going to do it right now.
1:52:41put on a freeze right now, way too pricey to fight inflation, believing that people will get so sick by next year that you didn't remove it.
1:53:00That's one possibility.
1:53:02The other possibility is to let this thing go.
1:53:05Freeze, freeze.
1:53:07And if we let it go until next year, until it's late enough in the year,
1:53:11where they don't know whether or not it's going to work, or not work, or whether they're indecisive.
1:53:25And then, the only issue you have is a moment ago.
1:53:27Now, those are the only two alternatives that I've seen on the inflation front.
1:53:32Because you're not going to get a current on the inflation front.
1:53:34If you look at the way the price frees up, what are the benefits you're going to have on the unemployment front?
1:53:37There are two issues.
1:53:37One is unemployment.
1:53:38The other is inflation.
1:53:38Well, there will be divided opinions.
1:53:39I appreciate that.
1:53:40But it probably would have a good effect on employment, and it would have a good effect on industry and business.
1:53:56I think it would prove something that they don't now believe.
1:54:00They don't now believe that you're going to take the hard steps to fight inflation.
1:54:03So they're reluctant to make expenditures expand.
1:54:04They think inflation is going to continue to be with us.
1:54:06This is what's going to hurt us on interest rates.
1:54:08And they're just waiting to push up these interest rates.
1:54:11But if this happens to any appreciable extent, you may not have a lot of choice about what you do.
1:54:17Because if interest rates go up too much, it's going to spike the whole billet.
1:54:23It's going to spike a great part of this economy almost overnight.
1:54:27Now, I said that to these bankers in Europe.
1:54:30They're delighted.
1:54:31They're mad as hell.
1:54:32American banker.
1:54:34He drove me up.
1:54:35He's a populist.
1:54:36Dave Rockefeller and I.
1:54:38for a long talk, and I said, now Dave, and he said, well, I want you to know why I did so.
1:54:54I said, I know why you did it, but I said, I want you to know why I said what I did.
1:54:56And I said, if you raise it again, I'm not gonna like it again.
1:54:58I said, I'm not holding the stockholders, and I'm not going to need directors.
1:54:59And I said, I've been a stockholder and a director of the bank, and I know you won't make money.
1:55:01But I said, that ain't the position I'm in.
1:55:04I said, I'm secretary of the treasury.
1:55:05And I said, I'm trying to do what I can to help the president.
1:55:06maintaining some reasonable control over inflation at the same time stimulating this economy to higher interest rates, the worst damn thing to happen to us.
1:55:19And I said, you're not going to get him to like it, you're not going to get me to like it.
1:55:23I said, now just that simple.
1:55:24I was arguing about it with Arthur.
1:55:26Arthur basically advised us, yes.
1:55:28He doesn't know.
1:55:28Well, he, you know, he gets it.
1:55:30Well, he gets over there.
1:55:34They really do.
1:55:39Well, they all get to talk to these central bankers.
1:55:41They all get into this because of our low interest rates.
1:55:44And then they go, Christ, they're still too goddamn hot.
1:55:46They really are.
1:55:46They're too goddamn hot.
1:55:47They sure are.
1:55:48But he gets it.
1:55:50And well, a professor like that, let's just be frank, but a professor like that, they won't talk any abstract.
1:56:04This is what he did.
1:56:05So just as long as you trade, you die.
1:56:06And when it comes to policy and so forth and so on, he's hip to all this stuff.
1:56:08And he and I have had very hard talks about it.
1:56:09And he knows you're not going to get it if you wait until policy is born.
1:56:11And I've told him he's not going to get it.
1:56:13And I offer a reason, John, is that I know an argument that's not true.
1:56:17If I take that step, I've got to go all the way.
1:56:34And if we're going to go all the way, I've got to go all the way.
1:56:36Take one step.
1:56:37I'm not going to screw around.
1:56:38And I mean, if you do it, you ought to go down here overnight.
1:56:39So that they can't have us fill up.
1:56:41They know if you go to the waste price board, that you're just setting the stage.
1:56:43So everyone will get the prices right.
1:56:44See, the breeze is something else.
1:56:44You can let the breeze on.
1:56:45And the difficulty is...
1:56:47You have no enforcement in here.
1:56:59We have no enforcement.
1:57:01Captain, it really is only hope.
1:57:04The problem is that if you took off, if you laid home for a reason and took it off before the election, everybody would immediately get their prices and wages up.
1:57:08You see, you may hit them again, so they try to recover, and they recover too fast.
1:57:12before next fall.
1:57:22Well, we don't decide about that.
1:57:28No, that's not true.
1:57:29That's what you remember.
1:57:29We're thinking of everything.
1:57:30Yes, sir.
1:57:30In terms of the stimulating the economy, do you think it's a job well?
1:57:32Yes, sir.
1:57:32In honor of this, we may have decided.
1:57:33Let me suggest at this moment, and I'll think about it a great deal more, but if you have to do it on the basis that you're going to use it to try to hire those who are wealthy, those who are mobile, and the American people,
1:57:42that we can try to get people to see work as fast as possible and put in paid jobs, maybe write a license to send it on that basis, or at least that's where you're going to start.
1:58:00Right.
1:58:00But you can also do it yourself.
1:58:00And if there's always some hope, reduce your welfare growth.
1:58:04So you can.
1:58:05to at least think about that.
1:58:16But I will think about this bill and talk to John about it.
1:58:17And I think about the tax that we got into this morning.
1:58:19The tax that we got into this morning.
1:58:24If you're better off, I mean, you can fight the bull straight off and say, I'll protect you.
1:58:40I mean, it's got to be done.
1:58:41I mean, just slap on an entire list.
1:58:42You know what I mean?
1:58:42It's just a race only hell of all your tax guys over there.
1:58:44I don't care.
1:58:44I don't know what it is.
1:58:46I'm not going to call on anyone on some sort of basis.
1:58:48And it's going to be increasing, as the mayor said.
1:58:51But where you get property tax relief, you've got to get property tax relief so that that's totally revenue sharing.
1:59:07You know, one of the problems with revenue sharing is that it doesn't offer to the average person property tax relief because we give a bonus to those cities that make greater tax efforts, so it's an incentive for them to raise tax revenue.
1:59:14That isn't good, is it?
1:59:15No, it really isn't.
1:59:16But we've got to do that this morning.
1:59:17That's it.
1:59:18And, well, I just said that they asked if this could be used to reduce taxes.
1:59:32And I said, yes, if they reduce taxes on homes, I think it ought to be a very worthwhile objection.
1:59:39I said, frankly, one of the things that's troubling this administration is the property tax on homes.
1:59:42And I thought you'd let me say that next year.
1:59:43One day I'll do one.
1:59:44I want some property tax.
1:59:45So that you can just come out and say, you know what I mean?
1:59:58If you know what I'm saying, it's not a complex problem, it's simple.
2:00:02That's how we say it.
2:00:03That's how you reduce your property taxes.
2:00:04And the average person, even though we know he pays more in indirect taxes, it's that bill that comes in twice a year, and he has to pay it, and the old lady's got to go down to her large hand, and you're inside 70% of the folks on their property.
2:00:13Right?
2:00:13And the people that don't own their property, they're all against us.
2:00:27Well, that's correct, most of them.
2:00:29That's correct.
2:00:30I think the way we're going to have to do it is just give them credit.
2:00:33Have to give them credit on their gasoline tax.
2:00:35Or their property taxes.
2:00:35Great.
2:00:35That's how we're going to have to do it.
2:00:36We can find a way to do that.
2:00:37I don't know if we can do that without congressional authority.
2:00:39I don't think we can.
2:00:40But all we have to do is vote.
2:00:42We'll see what it costs, but we may have to raise taxes.
2:00:58We may have to put our value in taxes.
2:01:02We may have to institute a holding tax.
2:01:03I'm really worried about that.
2:01:04If the people are convinced that you're really trying to get a dollar's worth of value for a dollar spent, it'll send an increase in taxes.
2:01:12If, particularly with the one hand, you raise taxes in one area, which they don't fee them, and take it off in another area where they do fee them, then we've got to get a property tax relief.
2:01:35And it's going to cost the same fee if we give you $600 or $1,000 credit, or $1,000 deduction for your taxes, make a total deduction if you want to, and cost it all the way out in the city, then we'll put over a back-handed tax.
2:01:42But we're thinking, I'm thinking about all of these things, and we're not going to have to do anything about any of these, all these investigations and so forth.
2:01:58I think maybe we'll probably need help more.
2:02:01I've got to probably set it up to maybe be out there for a few days.
2:02:38I don't know if we can do that without congressional authority.
2:02:56I don't think we can.
2:02:59But all you have to do is vote.
2:03:03Where do we get the money for it?
2:03:11Well, we'll see.
2:03:14We'll cost it out and see what it costs, but we may have to raise taxes.
2:03:19I think we may have to.
2:03:20We may have to put our value in the tax.
2:03:22We may have to institute the holding tax.
2:03:23I'm really worried about that.
2:03:25If the people are convinced that you're really trying to get a dollar's worth of value for a dollar spent, it'll send an increase in taxes.
2:03:29If, particularly with the one hand, you raise taxes in one area, which they don't fee them, you take it off in another area where they do fee them.
2:03:49And we buy that property tax, and we investigate it and think about it.
2:03:53And it's going to cost us X billion if we give you $600, or $1,000 credit, or $1,000 deduction for your taxes, make a total deduction.
2:03:57If you want to, we'll cost it all out and see.
2:03:58Then we'll put over value-added taxes.
2:03:59But we're thinking about all of these things.
2:04:13And we're not going to have to do anything about any of these, all these investigations and so forth.
2:04:16I think maybe we'll probably need help more.
2:04:17I've got to probably set it up to maybe be out there for a few days and have everybody.
2:04:25I watch it constantly.
2:04:35I noticed, though, that the Department of School of Finance and their economists came out here the other day in the first of the spring.
2:04:44What did they say?
2:04:44Well, they basically say that the economy is moving.
2:04:46It's moving on a solid base.
2:04:47They're predicting $1.53 trillion.
2:04:48And they predicted employment by next fall will be down to 5%.
2:04:51Or next year, they said down 5%.
2:04:58That's by January.
2:05:00And they didn't say what month.
2:05:04But they said it would be down to 5.5 by the end of this year.
2:05:05That means the right movement.
2:05:07You've all said it.
2:05:07It just moves in the right direction.
2:05:08It just doesn't go up.
2:05:09It would just have the right movement before the end of February.
2:05:11There's 7%.
2:05:14But nevertheless, I was a parent.
2:05:18All I know is this.
2:05:21I know that in war and in politics and in the economy, it's all the same.
2:05:24You've always got to plan for the worst, and hope for the best, and talk for the best.
2:05:38How I ever talk on feed is that all I'm confident with, is that all the economy is going to go on, so we're not strong scientifically.
2:05:42The question of retail sales are strong, housing is still strong.
2:05:43The Dock and Borough Hill survey is extremely interesting.
2:05:45So 35% increase in funds for construction.
2:05:46There are other signs that move a lot in the other direction, but generally speaking, the indicators are stronger.
2:06:04And I always see the copy of the top economist for all of the works who go off that line.
2:06:07Exactly.
2:06:07His thoughts were in that direction.
2:06:08Then, of course, you have the various kinds in the other direction.
2:06:10It may be that we're on the brink of a movement.
2:06:17And the real key to it, of course, is the confidence factor.
2:06:22You never get that thing tipped.
2:06:23And one of the areas where you've got it tipped, where we really haven't practiced, is California.
2:06:27I just went to California.
2:06:28you know, the importance of people with regard to the international, whether they will be, whether our climate will be cooperative.
2:06:41Now, the moment that shifts, see, you, yeah, we've actually sent 10% of all the people in to the contact statement.
2:06:44Now, that, that shifts.
2:06:46I mean, then that money started to flow in, and your sales go up, and everything goes, and the economy moves, and things like that.
2:07:02There's a hell of a lot of savings around the country.
2:07:03There's a lot of money ready to go.
2:07:04The question is whether people are going to have the confidence to spend it.
2:07:06Once they start spending it, the inventories are down, I understand.
2:07:08social is this all true yes well they are and these are things that are potential areas of growth i don't see anything really to be discouraged about i think we all will get a little discouraged from time to time because you know you always lurking in the back of your minds and thought well maybe we are wrong but i don't think so i was still right i mean i mean the plan is right
2:07:31The market's doing exactly what I think the economy dictates it to.
2:07:44It went down to about 900.
2:07:49It's moving back up.
2:07:50It's going to float in this area at 925.
2:07:51Back down again, I think, until the rest of the economy catches up with it.
2:07:53Yes, it will.
2:07:53900 or better.
2:07:54And by next year, I think it's going to be over 1,000.
2:07:58That's going to be a very good sign.
2:07:59First time in history where...
2:08:01And they're just certain things.
2:08:10Let's be prepared.
2:08:14My whole view is on economic policy.
2:08:18We want to do the right thing, of course.
2:08:19But the other thing, as we approach this election, by God, we are not going to leave anything unturned.
2:08:23We're not going to be very big heroes and lose because of the economy, right?
2:08:24If we lose for other reasons, that's just too bad.
2:08:26In other words, if we screw up the foreign policy, we deserve to lose.
2:08:28That's what I think.
2:08:34To lose all the power is just that stupidity.
2:08:37Well, I agree.
2:08:37We don't have to.
2:08:37And we're not going to.
2:08:38I still think we need to pick out a couple of entities.
2:08:46The thing we need is a psychological solution.
2:08:48Now, I've talked to many people.
2:08:49I've talked to two or three.
2:08:53And I discount for kindness some of their remarks, but they all say that among the people they've talked to, that the more us get tough attitude we had in Munich was music to their ears.
2:09:05They said, this is great.
2:09:06This is the greatest thing we've heard.
2:09:08Now, I didn't think that's the issue.
2:09:11and will, looking for some something in the foreign affairs scene.
2:09:21And it could be related to domestic affairs.
2:09:27And Pete, maybe it is abandoned.
2:09:28Maybe it's against the Japanese.
2:09:28Maybe it's against the Chinese.
2:09:30It's down in the Congress down here.
2:09:32Maybe there's some move you can take.
2:09:34Let's pick out a couple of hymns that you show the American businessmen, and you are out to protect their innocence.
2:09:39That means it's how big it is.
2:09:49And you don't want to rock the international boat to do it.
2:09:56But if you could put an automobile on Japanese automobiles for 90 days, until you could study the American automobile productive capacity or something like that.
2:10:01Yeah, we've made it through God damn generous United States.
2:10:03You don't have to think about it.
2:10:05and didn't get any questions at all on the so-called Mayday arrest.
2:10:22And I said, and I said, and he was surprised, and Ron would be surprised.
2:10:25The bastards found out when they got home that they were wrong to keep talking about it.
2:10:33He said, I wanted every one of those questions
2:10:35I mean, I wanted them to be on that side, and I wanted them to be on the other side.
2:10:54First, I think I said that.
2:10:56Second point, however, I think this probably wasn't the time at the time, so maybe the next one.
2:11:01It seems to me that the press, of course, I sort of know for the press conferences, it's not easy.
2:11:03but I'm sort of known for being prepared, for being cool, for not getting flustered, for being generous, for being firm and so forth.
2:11:17So I think just taking them all off and so forth, their life isn't that nice.
2:11:29These nasty bastards in the press act that way for the president to act like the president.
2:11:31Try this one.
2:11:31About the third time I had a question about the May Day, you know, I think that
2:11:34could well have been a time, and I certainly consider it the next time when I am personally capable of doing it.
2:11:49I will still aim it toward the individual.
2:11:50But to say, I look here, that's the third time that same question has been asked.
2:11:52Let's understand, the great majority of the members of the press disagree with the matter of these so-called answers.
2:11:56You have a right to your beliefs.
2:11:58I have a right to mine.
2:12:01I have the responsibility to see that this government continues to run.
2:12:04I've got to meet that responsibility.
2:12:05Anybody that comes to this city for the purpose of stopping this government and breaks the law is going to be arrested.
2:12:10He said, now that's the law.
2:12:14I'm going to hear about that.
2:12:15Get a cracker out of that job.
2:12:16I think that they do it.
2:12:28What do you think?
2:12:32I'm absolutely for it.
2:12:35Yeah.
2:12:36The disadvantage of that is that, of course, there are so many people, not people in the press, that paint the image that I'm a hell of a fighter, you know what I mean?
2:12:42I'm mean, all that sort of thing.
2:12:42I'm inclined to think that as far as that average television viewer is concerned, he sees the press conference being cool, composed, and stuff like that.
2:12:46And I think they like that, up to a point.
2:13:06But I think sometimes they might say, well, thank God he told those bastards a lie.
2:13:08And I would add one other thought to what you said.
2:13:09And just say we're here on national television, all three networks, talking to millions of people, and surely there's more to concern this American Republic than what happened to 2,000 businesses who came here to try to stop working for their government to get over those questions.
2:13:15That's good.
2:13:17I think you did exactly right.
2:13:28I think what you're coming through, which is the important thing, what you're coming through is a strong man.
2:13:33strong energy and so forth.
2:13:41It's very important that you do that.
2:13:45But in the case, you see, the death penalty was out there.
2:13:49He hasn't got anybody else that comes through.
2:13:50Mitchell is a strong man, but Mitchell does not come through.
2:13:52I mean, he basically is, he doesn't come through to lead, but he just doesn't come through to cover.
2:13:57He can't, it's not his way.
2:13:57Mitchell is just a tough, no-nonsense guy that the cops
2:14:02But Rodgers, no way.
2:14:12He was sort of smooth and sophisticated and weak.
2:14:18And Laird, Laird on the table, nobody believes him.
2:14:24Nobody believes Laird.
2:14:24I'm talking about Ken.
2:14:26He doesn't count you believable.
2:14:27Rodney works hard, both of you work hard.
2:14:29They're not heavy enough.
2:14:30Sands, fine piece.
2:14:32not taken too seriously.
2:14:36Richardson is basically an intellectual, a good straw, and a good, capable administrator.
2:14:41Hardly.
2:14:41You see, but see the problem he's got.
2:14:43He's got to hold that cap, all of them want to do the right thing.
2:14:47all over a decent ranch, all over a goddamn good show, but when it comes to getting up there and finding any, hell, you need a, you need basically a down someplace in that ranch, out of the cabin, you need, you need a, you need an 80s, you need some people like that.
2:15:09You talk about a terrible hero.
2:15:10You even talk about that crazy Henkel.
2:15:11At least he has a little color, naturally.
2:15:12you gotta have a little you should correct you should what you know whatever you can't you can't just manufacture but you have to build on whatever your personality is and uh i don't get the reputation just being a tough guy but uh i'm gonna be myself you know that's right that's all i'm gonna have with me well as a matter of fact as a matter of fact uh basically i would uh i feel like that i have
2:15:42I have delivered quite a, quite a, a very, you know, composed role and all that sort of thing during these demonstrations and so forth and so on.
2:16:04I'm listening.
2:16:04Last year, you can't vote me at all.
2:16:05You see, indirectly, that was the right issue.
2:16:06Right.
2:16:06In other words, it's the enemy there is.
2:16:07Sure.
2:16:07And I would, sure, I would, I would give a second thought to it.
2:16:09You just cracked it.
2:16:09Yes, sir.
2:16:11I sure would.
2:16:24And then I'd go and file it on the state of the us and just say I've been talking to hundreds or tens of millions of people and I'm sure they have some interest in the matter.
2:16:30In other matters, you can tell me.
2:16:31Proceed with the order, please.
2:16:32Thank you, Mr. President.
2:16:32I'll see you at 8 o'clock tomorrow.
2:16:33Is this going to be in the mansion?
2:16:34Yeah.
2:16:34All right.
2:16:34All right.
2:16:35All right.
2:18:02I guess this is a change, isn't it?
2:18:13The Nicaraguan foreign minister and Senator Meyer are not going to be standing by in this content meeting with this asshole tonight, right?
2:18:24This has all changed, CSI.
2:18:25This has succeeded.
2:18:25Well, anyway.
2:18:25Senator Henry's not... Yeah, okay.
2:18:29You know, Senator...
2:18:30He's been together in the...
2:18:31Are they coming at 7.30 also?
2:18:38No, sir, they arrived late.
2:18:43Okay.
2:18:43Mrs. Somoza and Mr. Cassius.
2:18:46They'll be brought up, Mrs. Nancy.
2:18:54We'll receive that once you and President Somoza join.
2:18:55Thank you.
2:19:01This is so ridiculous, I... Why I've got the meeting, I don't understand why we allowed them to send the meeting, I'm serious, I... Henry didn't understand.
2:19:18It came out pretty well, because we were still fighting a couple days ago, earlier in the day meeting.
2:19:23Oh, is that right?
2:19:23Yeah.
2:19:24But they wanted to have an arrival, and Henry... No, no, Henry did get to an arrival, but we were escalating rapidly, and we could have gotten to one, but...
2:19:30I had an entering program, fine.
2:19:39He was in full agreement with me, you know, just do the 7.30 now.
2:19:45We weren't going to do anything.
2:19:50He said you had to, and he bought the 7.30, but then taking his people and, I guess, pressure from the state or somebody.
2:19:52It's a basic process because he's trying to record every opportunity in the dinner.
2:19:57And you give him the, now adding the wives to the dinner, and he said that was more of an occasion.
2:20:02Where are they?
2:20:22Jesus Christ.
2:20:28I didn't know we had a separate batch of stuff, but I think part of that makes a rule.
2:20:40The more people you've got, the more people they have to hurt you as much.
2:20:51Oh, you got it.
2:21:04Don Hughes was going to give me a list of people in the class that were there that were outstanding.
2:21:25He definitely didn't see it.
2:21:26What he was going to give me was the list of people that did.
2:21:29There aren't a hell of a lot of people.
2:21:30It's my answer to the university.
2:21:50We do tell Ryland to go in and take somebody else so that I can get out in 15 minutes.
2:22:20We're talking about 620.
2:22:34We're talking about 620, so we might want to have as much as I can here, as much as I can.
2:22:38Okay, essentially.
2:22:38Well, a little scout for a fire engine crew.
2:22:41I was trying to suggest one thing that is not even any other to be borne in mind.
2:22:44I realize that it's hard to doubt it's a battle.
2:22:47Yeah, and outside.
2:22:48When you got a young group, you know, like that and so forth, you put them in a room together and they all wanted their own, you know, what I meant, hotel.
2:23:05Oh, yeah.
2:23:05I meant that they applaud and so forth and so on.
2:23:07They're enthusiastic.
2:23:07And it's terribly hard.
2:23:08You know, any of our crowd is, you know, like when our chief of state comes and applauds us.
2:23:12All right, that's right.
2:23:19You don't need a coach, I believe, isn't it?
2:23:22Well, people yesterday, you know, how out there, how do you know, you make the goddamn speech on the door, and nothing comes out.
2:23:27And I just feel that if we were trying to show, if we were trying to show an enthusiasm for you, we didn't show it a whole lot out there today.
2:23:37I mean, they were nice, they were pleasant, which is good of me.
2:23:39Yeah.
2:23:39All right.
2:23:39America's a good place.
2:23:40All right.
2:23:40I know I used to put them in the back of me, too, because it made a better television picture.
2:23:45But it's the old shot of the portico in the background, then the boys.
2:23:48The old story of the life, the time we had the astronauts bob out of tubes.
2:23:55The thing in the back, it's a question of, do you want a great picture, or do you want a feeling of excitement, of enthusiasm, you know?
2:24:08I think it's an awful good picture of, you know, just you with the kids, because the expressions on their faces and the tremendous stalls of the cameras, and everyone up in the camera.
2:24:33There's pretty much that idea of just an independent thing of,
2:24:39He feels very strongly that my showing is a little out of range.
2:25:00He said, you know, I did what I might have said.
2:25:02And he said, you know, I got a bad one thing.
2:25:03And I said, no, look, there's a lot of other situations other than what 12,000 or any of my demonstrators did when they came here to Washington.
2:25:07Let's get on with the next one.
2:25:07Kennedy used to do that, son.
2:25:08He used to try to depress.
2:25:17He'd say, I mean, there's nothing, you know, I'm accomplishing anything by pulling the hammer away.
2:25:25That or something, it doesn't make any sense.
2:25:28I mean, he sort of, I mean, he could.
2:25:29He could get away with it.
2:25:29Well, you could get away with it with the people.
2:25:30The people are with you.
2:25:31You can't get depressed all the time.
2:25:32What the hell do you care?
2:25:33They like it when you do it.
2:25:35They like it when you do it.
2:25:36Sometimes.
2:25:37There's a day he did it anyway, but it probably would be effective.
2:25:56Well, I wonder.
2:25:56I asked John Irving, who raised the subject with me himself.
2:26:00I thought you said it was Charles who raised it this morning.
2:26:01Yeah, I did.
2:26:01I heard the reason, and I don't know why.
2:26:02It wasn't this morning.
2:26:04The customization picked up all this stuff.
2:26:25It's a hell of a thing.
2:26:25I told Connelly to bring it in.
2:26:29I gave him a certificate or something.
2:26:30I think that's a good thing to do.
2:26:30That's constantly getting some stuff here.
2:26:31That's what stirred up a little bit.
2:26:33You know, I think I should just start my own opinion charge.
2:26:51You know, see, we're putting a man down over here in Chappie.
2:26:53So far, we'll reward people in this time.
2:26:54The other day, it hasn't worked.
2:26:55Nothing has worked out for this time.
2:26:56Part of the reason is the government's been going home and making corrections.
2:26:59But you've got to go through it.
2:27:00You've got to do like Jay Edgar used to do, you know, don't arrest this son of a bitch until I get there.
2:27:05And you walk up to the door and bang on the door.
2:27:08And LaGuardia used to jump on the fire wagon and run out to the fire.
2:27:11People probably used to be really worried about him.
2:27:18You can't do that kind of thing.
2:27:19Your people can't.
2:27:23You could do something, but I wonder if you're quite sure if you're doing this in jail.
2:27:29I asked her if she would lay, but I had wondered if she could push him through, and I decided that was pretty firm, and that was pretty cool.
2:27:54With the press, in fact, throughout her life, John Irving, yes, John Irving says, no, well, he says, no, he may not think that.
2:27:57He just, I just, just gives a little, just a little, some fire.
2:27:58Of course, comedy series have, you know,
2:28:00Because I think you showed some, or did you call it balloons and vandals?
2:28:05Yeah, yeah.
2:28:05Those were the words.
2:28:07Maybe they were said too coolly.
2:28:09You said those pretty firmly.
2:28:13Yeah.
2:28:13You said those, so you were looking right into the camera, so I recall you got, and that's, we're taking that down.
2:28:19And now to this fundamental point about this whole craft about to what we do.
2:28:29They're supposed to keep those goddamn white curtains back in there.
2:28:49Can they do that, please?
2:28:54Sure.
2:28:54At the time.
2:28:54Or better still, take them off.
2:28:55Revolver's for summer.
2:28:56We don't need them.
2:28:57Okay.
2:28:57They've just been sticking them back.
2:28:58Yeah.
2:28:58The real question is, you know, we have, we have always, it really goes back to the steps from that whole period before the first debate.
2:29:17What we talked about, what he was saying, he goes on and on and on and on and on.
2:29:23They're very sensitive about the fact that I'm never supposed to show them emotion, you know, anger and that sort of thing.
2:29:44I'm not sure that's correct.
2:29:44I'm not sure, but if somebody has said, I know a lot of people like the old links, what's it called?
2:29:47They're not so sure that they may be as impressed with this old business of kumis and so forth.
2:29:50Now, you've got Christ there, of course, which is totally that.
2:29:52You've got to be like God.
2:29:52In other words, you're a kumis.
2:29:54temper, and this and that.
2:30:09I'm not too sure of it.
2:30:10I'm not too sure of the rhetoric.
2:30:13I think it's a very fine line, but I think there is a need if you're going to make an issue.
2:30:16Now then, you've got to get something.
2:30:16Conley said he got an enormously behavioral reaction when he said immunity.
2:30:18Because he cracked.
2:30:18He stood up for America.
2:30:20He kicked people around the world.
2:30:21I'm a bit surprised.
2:30:22I'm a bit surprised.
2:30:22That's what helped Agnew.
2:30:24At the time, he's not worried now.
2:30:36He's become peevish now.
2:30:37He's whining.
2:30:37He's whining.
2:30:38And he comes back to it every time.
2:30:40Now, he's peevish.
2:30:41He's on a lot of strength.
2:30:42Well, it's not getting mad at your kids or your employees or anything else.
2:30:45It's good to do, but you've got to do it on purpose, when it serves your purpose, not just all the time.
2:30:52Having this also is gold.
2:30:54I'm a little surprised in my mind.
2:31:25We had one last night.
2:31:31Maybe that wasn't the one to use it on.
2:31:46You may not think it.
2:31:46What I meant is, what I meant is to do a lot of things.
2:31:49Could be that kind of thing.
2:31:50Oh yeah, they were waiting on that.
2:31:52I'm not going to waste that on an office press conference.
2:31:54Just to give you a very, very brief update
2:32:23on any domestic, uh, yeah, I don't know, 18 books.
2:32:44No, I mean, that starts at that.
2:32:44If you just thought about it, I just want to, just to tell my, I don't even have a half hour to read.
2:32:46I just want to have some video notes.
2:32:47I just want a little update on the stuff.
2:32:48Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep my writing on the desk.
2:32:49I'm gonna make it sweet.
2:32:50I'm gonna make it funny.
2:32:50I'm gonna make it all sweet.
2:32:52Last week, I hired him.
2:32:56Last month, he got him first, but I think now he's reverted to the...
2:33:40Pretty good setup to do this.
2:33:54They continue to go so bad.
2:33:55I mean, they looked particularly bad last time.
2:34:00They're very close in size.
2:34:01They're mean.
2:34:01Most of them don't have very good, you see, direction in terms of size.
2:34:03I mean, she's got to be very careful.
2:34:04I hope we see her.
2:34:04I mean, just toss it.
2:34:06Last night we were pretty much on that issue.
2:34:20I don't see how that wouldn't have come out very strongly.
2:34:25I get the advantage of repetition with a very strong point, strongly made.
2:34:29I don't see how there can be any question or any doubt.
2:34:31But the only thing I can say is how it is a cool thing happens, right?
2:34:35A lot of them go back, basically, not to the campaign.
2:34:54It wasn't the campaign, but for that one miserable production job.
2:34:57Just one.
2:34:58For the campaign.
2:34:58Nobody ever raised any questions.
2:34:59First, they had no reason to.
2:34:59My teachers at the campaign were highly responsible.
2:35:00They weren't arguing.
2:35:01You know what I mean.
2:35:01None of them turned right.
2:35:02But that was just one thing.
2:35:04We had Mr. That's one of them.
2:35:05Yeah, he told Bell, but he also said there wasn't, you know, he wasn't asked.
2:35:16That he was told, put it on.
2:35:20Pointed out the problems of all the billions.
2:35:23He was told to try and solve them, so he did.
2:35:26He was trying to solve them.
2:35:27I'll be honest.
2:35:28cool stuff and so forth.
2:35:35Whether really you're getting the, whether you get across a strong enough image, that's what we're talking about.
2:35:40That's what the cool tones mean.
2:35:41If T is a cool medium, you should be cool generally.
2:35:43You can use some iPhones, you know.
2:35:49That might be one.
2:35:50I don't think you want to come off
2:35:52come charging in there all ganged up.
2:35:55All right, first question, banging away.
2:35:58That ain't the coolest, but then a little righteous indignation or something like that on a particular point where there's a reason for it.
2:36:14It might be sort of a spice that picks it up, changes the tone a little bit, builds the conflict
2:36:21If you argue that the medium, that the device is a good one because of the conflict, then that conflict ought to be sharp.
2:36:30There should be a little ebb and flow in the conflict.
2:36:33There should be the touch of humor and then there should be the touch of sharpness.
2:36:40So it's a little fight for range, yeah.
2:36:42There's some fight there.
2:36:44I don't feel good about it.
2:36:46It should be bitterness.
2:36:47It shouldn't be querulousness or anything like that.
2:36:50It should be just...
2:36:53Naturally, you can't do it.
2:36:59Well, I should feel like doing it.
2:37:02But it would have been easy to be natural on that one last night.
2:37:10Oh, well, not really.
2:37:10I get under complete control of those kind of things.
2:37:12You'd have to say that.
2:37:12You'd have to be under control.
2:37:14You couldn't let it irritate you.
2:37:15You couldn't do it if you were mad.
2:37:19But you'd have to do it where it would be natural to be weak.
2:37:24I've had money on occasions to be able to take them on or sell them.
2:37:30That's totally unfair, totally, you know, where they say that you have taken them on pretty, I guess you've done it cool, you've done it, that's a challenge for a charterer.
2:37:39Any elections appreciated.
2:37:48Maybe Anderson.
2:37:51Maybe that guy out there.
2:37:52He'll come in every day.
2:37:57And the facts are, you know, he'd like to see a knockoff.
2:38:04He doesn't like to see somebody come up.
2:38:05Yeah.
2:38:05Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:06Rockets.
2:38:07Rockets.
2:38:07Rockets.
2:38:07Rockets.
2:38:07Rockets.
2:38:07Rockets.
2:38:08They've got to remember four days.
2:38:15Drugs are not going to forget anyone.
2:38:16See, because you'll state the premise there.
2:38:20Even if they didn't hear you do it, you're going to say it.
2:38:27You'll say, President Nixon said he is opposed to legalizing marijuana.
2:38:28Do you agree or disagree?
2:38:31And I don't say drugs.
2:38:32On the vouchers, you won't quite state the premise.
2:38:34No, but you, yeah.
2:38:34I think most of them remember that.
2:38:35In the calls you had, most everybody mentioned that.
2:38:36Yeah.
2:38:38In the Christian survey, only half or less than half will have seen the press conference.
2:38:50Half the people you're talking to won't have seen it anyway.
2:38:52We get the answer from everybody, not just the people who saw the press conference.
2:38:55We can separate it and look at it and see whether it made a difference.
2:39:03Yeah.
2:39:03It's been really worth holding this week.
2:39:04What do you think?
2:39:04Because we just spent all the money we needed.
2:39:07I don't really have all this time in the universe to pull when the hell are we going to have a show really until after we have a major foreign policy breakthrough problem.
2:39:20I'd like to see, I'd like to pull before I go to the wedding.
2:39:24I'd like to see what the wedding does.
2:39:24You do?
2:39:25Yeah.
2:39:25I don't know why because we can't stage another one.
2:39:28You know.
2:39:29One pulls, you know, one builds on the other.
2:39:34I push for more pulls.
2:39:35I used to
2:39:36push or not pulling.
2:39:40It's been good to pull intensively as we have.
2:39:45We've learned a lot on how to use them.
2:39:49And what's the saving money?
2:39:53And we don't need to save the money.
2:39:56I don't see any reason to save the money.
2:39:58I just, when you think, you know, we can run half a dozen poles with a cost of over one minute spot on television.
2:40:06Pools are worth a lot more to us.
2:40:09And we get other questions in.
2:40:12We get our, you know, get the China question, the Uber question, the BP question.
2:40:15There's other things for you.
2:40:21Well, I think it's worth, like the marijuana question, I think it's worth getting out.
2:40:30All right.
2:40:30Let it go.
2:40:31I guess the answer is no.
2:40:38Do you make it a lot more than I think?
2:40:56Marijuana users.
2:40:57They don't think it's a good life.
2:41:00Why?
2:41:00Because they know it's bad.
2:41:01They think the only deterrent they have is moving out.
2:41:02They know it slows them down.
2:41:09It's real hot at your dinner, huh?
2:41:21I don't know if you love it, huh?
2:41:23Thank God there's no more of these.
2:41:23It's as good as possible.
2:41:24I'm fucking the shit out of me.
2:41:27A portion of the building.
2:41:32What the hell happened?
2:41:35Now, just a quick little brief update about just around this one.
2:41:44Now, this is only the white office for this time, so what additional questions?
2:42:03This is one of them.
2:42:04The one idea is that it's going to be snow, but is that diamonds?
2:42:17They'll give the diamonds some more now, don't they?
2:42:28They probably don't.
2:42:29But it is gold.
2:42:29All right, we're out of here.
2:42:30Yes, sir.
2:42:30Ah, John Axelman's got a little order.
2:42:37I'll tell you what, this fellow, John, was in the morning.
2:42:42I called him to be the...
2:42:45I guess Crowe is going to be there, because I'm going to call on him to run the meeting so that I don't have to do it.
2:43:00I'm going to just stay here and not consider this meeting a problem.
2:43:01He has studied enough.
2:43:02He's abused you always.
2:43:02I think we need to get him to step back and watch what's going on.
2:43:04He's been singing the things we need him to, as if you're running the meeting.
2:43:05That way.
2:43:06He can't see what's going on.
2:43:06Please, all three of you should be with him.
2:43:07They should start talking.
2:43:08It's a man's responsibility.
2:43:19Well, they like to.
2:43:20Your guys are the guys that are damn good at that.
2:43:21Oh, yes.
2:43:21They're good at running meetings.
2:43:22I can sit back and listen, please.
2:43:22And you can be more effective than that.
2:43:23If you have to run it, you can't.
2:43:24I know.
2:43:24You can't get it to die once in it.
2:43:25If you sit back, you can watch and see where it's going to touch.

Nixon with unidentified visitors in the Oval Office on Heroin policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 2, 1971

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