Conversation 510-005

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Well, come on in.

Yes, sir.

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

You're hurt.

Oh, I'm not hurt.

He was waxing up.

Yeah.

What group did you have on?

Explorers, yes.

Explorers, yeah.

They call themselves Explorers in Wisconsin.

They're one of the few Americans.

Well, they're not really one of the many young kids in America.

They're OK. We tend to get too done and obsessed with these exhibitionist kids.

Sure, there's an awful lot of them that are affected by others and people all the time.

These are two good looking kids.

That's quite a good organization to see a man who wasn't ever a scout.

Yeah, they do a good job of it all the time.

The flag and all that sort of thing.

I flew with it for two or three years.

I got a lot of merit badges.

I didn't stay with it that long.

We moved back to San Antonio.

Lieutenant Flores didn't even come to see our troops.

The kids all worked, too.

it's very obvious

They, I don't know if that's the one with Wells' story, or the early edition of The Star, it's a good story.

It says...

They sit there, they nitpick at the dance, right?

They just sit there and say, well, why doesn't the San Bernardino get more than the Coppola?

I mean, all of a sudden, they're saying, you know, I'm really hurt.

And Sam Gibbons was a nitpicker, you know.

Who?

Sam Gibbons from Florida.

He's a Democrat.

I don't know.

Oh, he's no good.

But on the Republican side, I must say, they all did exceedingly well.

They sure did.

And they should have.

And John Washington, pardon me.

John Washington couldn't have done it.

The problem was about the ball from Louisiana.

It couldn't have been more precious.

It couldn't have been better.

Burr, from Massachusetts, made a demagogic general statement about, you know, gee, I don't know how this was going to be delivered.

It wasn't going to be delivered to this new postal corporation.

It wasn't going to be delivered by...

I thought it went quite well.

We just...

There's a lot more support there, John.

As I said last night to you, Mills has a committee, and you've got the country.

Bobbitt gets right about a guy, he knows this, and Ford is playing a very hard game with him.

Jerry Ford, he's really good.

I think he's good, don't you?

Get a vote.

And that's what I said.

I did step out of the blue.

And, uh, was interviewed, uh, would you prefer it?

I'm not sure I've got a hold of it, so it'll probably be one of them.

Because he's got started with COVID and everything else.

I ran into a doctor out there.

You know if you've got any heroin?

Any what?

Heroin.

I don't even know.

I just got that from a friend of mine.

He said, you're a friend of the Bronx?

Yeah, I just got that from the other day.

I just got that last night.

Oh, you got that last night?

Yeah, I just got that from the other day.

I just got that last night.

You know, we've just over 50 pounds of hair in the last week.

And that translates back to about 3,000 pounds.

Tommy, can we start over?

Let's start over.

You'll see me soon.

he's over the mid john i'm sitting here talking to uh john khan i was wondering tomorrow since we're expanding actually to say that we should have maybe uh he was talking about this capture

And maybe people who see the law or somebody from Treasury, you know.

Well, when does that come in?

At breakfast.

Joint Chiefs.

Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute.

No, don't do it.

It's...

I'd rather receive, if it's on this problem with drugs, I'd rather receive it because it won't matter.

He's got a, he says that he could come.

He's got a terrible cold, you know, and so forth, which he just been under.

He says he would rather receive you to come on this occasion than he could.

Because I'd be at the committee with a team.

You're on it.

You are a captain right now in the department, yeah.

Well, I'm... Yeah.

How many people are you going to have in total?

Oh, that's all right.

That'll take the room.

We'll take that easy enough.

And tell them that if they're too crowded in that one room, to put a blue room there.

Blue room, you know?

Yeah.

OK. Fine.

I'll talk to them.

What?

I'm heading where the service secretary is all day.

All day.

Service chiefs.

Well, I have to be back to committee at 10.

You do?

So I have to leave at 9.30, I guess, in the event.

Yeah.

And, of course, I'll be there.

Let me suggest this idea in the future.

It might be a good idea.

If it isn't, I'll put you on.

I just think the idea...

We had to talk people there.

That's what you talked me to do.

You couldn't come at 8, 8 o'clock, and then leave.

I know that you wanted to prepare me, but then you leave at 9.

How's that?

That's why I'm not leaving.

You don't want to check the hell out?

No, no, no.

I don't want you to.

No, I don't want you to leave.

And we've got to put it at the highest level so that next year, the presidential house will have more money, new legislation and so forth, and we'll be with a presidential action plan in charge.

So, we're going to put it up here.

So that's what we want to do.

They know you're there.

And we just say, you know,

No, I'll come because I'm free to do this.

I don't want to keep corrupt bills gone, but I'm going to talk to Jack Irwin and be sure he keeps the pressure on the Turks because they have to make their decision to see who their farmers by the end of this month, by June 30th, for the crop next year.

And what little check that we've been able to do, hell, we figure if we have to, we can buy the whole crop in less than three weeks.

Now, what's going to happen on that?

What is going to happen?

Well, I don't know, except if what Bill says is the truth.

Now, let me ask you this.

Who is that?

Are you going to have kids through there?

Yes.

That's good.

Now, I just talked to John about this, you know.

He's hot for buying that group, the church.

And, uh...

herbal is going to be there you know state drags and speaking on this i want henry to know in advance that god damn it that's what we're going to do don't you agree yes do you do you see do you see any objection to it i don't know uh they say there's political problems and the rest but i think our political problem is infinitely greater on this job yeah yeah this basically yeah

Oh, another meeting.

Another meeting.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I see.

Well, then we can have the second meeting on the problems abroad.

I guess you're right.

All right.

But be sure Henry knows that when that comes up, we're to lean against the foreign policy guys.

We are going to lean to the economy position.

Fair enough.

From our investigation, we buy the whole crop for less than $3 million, and might even not spend more than that for a two-year period, while they find a substitute crop.

Oh, my God.

This is peanuts compared to what it costs us to try to interdict the damn stuff, intercept it, and prosecute these smugglers.

And we buy the whole crop and drive the opium supply.

It's a long story, of course.

because I think we've worked up some of these big range.

But this amount, this one and 50 pounds of pure arrow that you've captured in the last week are incredible seizures.

This represents about three tons of raw opium.

Three tons of it.

Now, you have Puerto Rico there.

Well, we've got Puerto Rico, then Florida, and then maybe the others in New York.

And then you catch everybody in the process.

You know what that has to do with those people getting mad at you for your life sentences.

I don't really need anybody else.

I didn't get into that.

I think we've got to be real tough.

Understand, the addict, this has never mattered.

You treat them.

But the question, who is not an addict, in other words,

There's some of them pushing because they're trying to help their customers.

But I've got these people, John, that make money out of this kind of thing, I think.

They're refining, really transporting.

And these are the labor schemes that they go to.

We've got smuggler stuff into this country.

It's unbelievable.

Of course, it's such enormous economic.

Well, we ought to be able to begin to get some information out of New York, too, because this much of what we see ought to be dropped to the markets.

So, unless they've got a tremendous inventory, and of course what they'll start doing is cutting it more.

You know, they'll dilute it more to make it go better.

But my God, seeing this much of that uncut heroin, this is purely uncut stuff.

Why, it's got to affect this market.

So out of it, we made something that might develop.

Some of these people might start sweating if they can't get it.

The price is going to be too high.

This had to have a public effect.

It's got to have a public effect.

How was this done?

I haven't gotten the details.

I don't know.

But they watched this plane, one of the planes that came in from South America.

It was a jet.

It had a special compartment built into it.

And the customs people stayed on them and watched it.

And five days later, I mean, captured 13 of them, most of them South Americans, who were importing this.

And I was one of the boys in, and I was talking to Tim Receeds about it today, and we were trying to get him some kind of, I don't know, like a war medal for a meritorious service or something to try to... You can break it.

I still...

Let me say that I liked it.

The man did it.

Yes.

Custody.

Because these are three of the biggest halls in the history of the Customs Division.

I'm ready to go on.

I'm going to bring them in.

All right.

That's great.

All right.

You bring them in.

We're going to put it right up again.

Let me get their names, and we'll just bring them over here.

We need to give them a certificate.

I got a presidential thing.

I need a certificate of appreciation for outstanding service.

That's what I'm speaking for.

Goddamn, that's a reward for people who really like that.

Get some pictures made and you can recount the stories about these captains who made money because I think you can also write up the stories.

I hear that something's happening.

What is the situation with regard to, uh, you know, on this, uh, picture?

I guess there isn't a whole lot more to talk about there.

Now, it's not a great deal, but it is a pretty good deal that the crisis was overhauled.

It is that the situation now is cool, that they, at the present time, we still have a long-range problem, though, as you point out, of our opening up markets and making more competitive and so forth and so on.

In this one, we must not do anything

because of international monetary fluctuation, which hurts our economy at all.

Is that a basic cost guess you want to get across?

Yes, right.

Is that what you want to say?

I really think, and I'm not prepared to recommend it, but I really think, as you go along, we all want to guess how much we want to push

How do you want to push the formation of the European community?

Now, we all go along assuming that this is going to be good.

Well, I'm not sure it's going to be good.

I'm not a bit sure it's going to be good.

I am convinced that the European community, when it's formed, is going to be formed as the third force in the world.

They're going to try to develop.

In the first place, there's going to be a bigger trading block than we are.

In many ways, there's going to be more industrialists than we are.

They're going to be more protectionist than we are, because each one of the individuals is going to assume that he doesn't have to do anything to protect himself.

And yet, collectively, they're going to be a bigger trading force in the world markets than we are.

Now, they're not going to build the defenses.

They're still going to look to us to carry the burden of the defenses, but they are going to create their own currency.

And they're going to do it not to supplement, but to supplant the dollar.

They're envious of us.

They don't want the economic domination of the United States.

They don't want to be reliant on the dollar.

And they're envious as hell.

Now, I don't care what anybody tells them.

That's the way they're going to react.

And they're going to try to get in a position where they can drive us to the wall as fast as they can.

I don't need 10 years to do it.

That's the fashion of it.

I know, I did it all myself all the time.

You know, we were all in the European Union, the Marshall Plan, the European Union.

Well, anyway, I'm not so sure that I'm sure.

I'm not sure what I'm starting to realize so far.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

That and the British, they have a hell of a problem.

Maybe we ought to be in reunion with the British.

I'm not sure we ought to get off with the British, and the Japanese, and the Australians, and maybe a few in Thailand, and close it up, and in the left European.

You've got the defense problems, I know, and Russia, and the proximity to Germany, and all of this involved.

But I think he can arrive at .

Well, I think it's worth some thinking.

I just don't think we ought to just go along and blindly assume that the formation of the European community is going to be in the best interest of the United States, because the next thing that's going to happen to us in this decade is Japan is going to polarize the Far East, and if not against us, at least for them, because they're making such economic inroads into all those countries and they're tying up the raw materials and establishing their trading bases that they're going to end up

They trade in forces of their own in that part of the world.

We're going to do that here if we're not careful.

But Canada, again, is jealous of this like system with South America, Mexico and South America, that we have no real community members with now.

They resent us.

They're laughing at us.

different world and live in a different world under different orders, different standards than what the Western Europeans do.

We're based in the Western European economy.

We're not Mexicans.

We're not Indians.

We're not South Americans.

We've got a few in Texas and California, true or not.

But when you, you know, but, you know.

So I don't want us to be tied economically just to this Western industry because I don't think it's, I don't think it's an argument to play with it.

I'll get off of that subject to say to you that there's nothing for us to do.

Let the mark float.

If the Japs want to let the rebound at the end, but they're too smart, they know they've got an economic advantage by keeping it right where it is.

So they don't want to change.

And they're not going to change unless we force them to.

They don't want to cut their exports.

Of course they don't.

Look what's happened.

They've got a slack trade in automobiles in their domestic markets, but they've got a hell of a movement in their export markets to the United States.

April is the second biggest month in history, and over 100% bigger than April a year ago.

But anyway, at some point, you can go to where you have too many countries floating.

And the American businessman, who has investments overseas, will get disturbed.

He'll not know what to do.

He won't know what's in store for him.

It will begin to affect our investments overseas, and thus the foreign currencies that our American companies earn, which is now becoming very considerable.

But this happened to us in the 30s, before Bretton Woods, because during the Depression days,

you couldn't get any stability of currencies.

Every currency was floating with respect to every other currency.

And almost every day, you'd have a different value for every currency in the world.

So that things were so unstable in an international monetary sense that nobody wanted to do any trading, because they didn't want to do any trading anymore.

And you almost went back to a barter system.

Now, we can't go quite that far.

But so far as a few of these currencies are floating, it doesn't really help us.

And we want the whole monetary system to roll up.

And I don't think it's going to.

I don't think it's about to.

They don't have any place to go but us.

And we might as well make the most of it.

The dollar is a reserve currency.

And I do think in our own interest, not in their interest, but in our own interest, we have to improve our trade union system.

Because there are basically three things that we're not going to change.

I assume we're not going to change.

But I hope when Willie Brant comes over here next month, this month, this month, this month,

that you will, in the middle of June, if you would have sent it to the office, the office said, well, there's $16 billion.

You say you've got more dollars than you want.

You've got $16 billion in reserves.

It's better shape than we are.

You contribute approximately 4% of your gross national product to defense.

We contribute nine.

And we think you ought to pay some more for those groups of yours.

We just think you ought to help pay for them.

We don't mind doing it.

We're not going to lessen our for the common defense.

But we sure think you ought to pay more, and it's not going to be easy for you.

Any more than it's easy for us.

But when we get to the point where you have an international crisis, as you call it, versus Lamar, then it's easier for you to do it than us.

And I think you probably know from him.

But we have to assume that three things are going to happen.

Number one, we have to maintain for the foreseeable future our military commitments.

around the world.

No one else can do that but us.

Now, this doesn't mean that other nations can't help pay for it in a more equitable fashion, because they can.

But, secondly, we have to recognize that we're a nation of travelers, and we're going to have a net outflow of money which runs about $3 billion a year on tourism.

And you really can't stop it.

No real effective way of stopping it.

So that's going to be an outlaw.

The third point is that we give a lot of money.

And we permit a lot of gifts.

Private money.

This is bonds for Israel.

We permit the only, this is the only general purpose bonds in the world that are sold with no taxes on them or anything.

It's a gift.

But politically, you can't stop that.

That's going to continue.

But anyway, that's an area.

And then the foreign investors.

I think at least for the present, we've got to continue to permit our business to make investments overseas.

Now, this runs into a lot of money every year.

But these four areas, we probably are not going to change right now.

That being true, we're going to continue to have, in my judgment, increasingly bigger deficits than our official settlement balance payments, unless we do make things a very strong move to improve our trading position.

Vis-a-vis Canada, Japan, the economy, marketable agriculture, commodities, we've got to make it happen.

There's no other way to do it.

And this is an irony.

It's not just to say we got a balanced payment in order to provide the job material and the economic expansion.

Because this is what trade really means to us.

But beyond that, I don't think we concern ourselves, nor you should concern yourself, with this intervention.

Let me come again.

You've got defense, you've got travelers, you've got investors.

And the fourth is, yes, public defense.

Well, we do such things as this.

Yesterday, I told Bob Woodruff to get the world back to the state of Bolivia, all along to Bolivia.

Well, I did it for this reason.

The World Bank has an unwritten rule that they will not rule on those donations that are expropriated, properties without compensation.

Well, believe me, it's taken the hell out of properties without compensation.

They've taken it from the Gulf.

They've taken it from the Middle East.

They've taken it from another company, the three major expropriations.

They haven't paid them a dime.

Now they're saying to us, they're saying to the United States, to the Inter-American Development Bank, the World Bank, well, we don't pay them enough with all these oil properties provided.

The United States insists and sees that we get a loan from the pipeline to Argentina so we can sell this gas.

We don't pay them enough over a 20-year period of 3% interest.

Well, I think we're generous.

But anyway, I said, Mr. Stein, I said, we need to fight this thing now.

I said, you know, I mean, by the way, we're still doing this and that.

But these things keep coming up.

I'm going to start firing computers.

Pete, we're copies of Rockies, and I'm just gonna say that, sir.

At some point, we've got to have a decision here.

uh, about how they're reacting to this.

Chris, uh, went to Kissinger to, I don't know if this was a cop, he was, because he's a more mean bastard than the others, and, uh, he, he might have been with us.

And I'm having, I'm having lunch with Bob, and I'm telling Bob that I don't, I just, I just infected.

We don't have any more of these goddamn wounds in the room.

We held it up for three days in the room.

to try to send word to them.

And I just told them to abstain, to be damn sure they got the message.

And I'm going to have lunch with Bob tomorrow and just try to make him insist on a policy that no World Bank loan will be made to any country that has expropriated properties and without some definite plans of compensation.

And I think that's only fair.

That's good.

Including that debt argument.

Let me come back to the domestic economy more.

We had a good talk with him.

I think we have a chance to sort of break more charges and move it around.

Oh, yeah.

We got a little too long with that.

We went over to the Archer.

Archer, let me see.

All right.

I think it was so strongly challenged.

You're right.

We never got it.

But let me put it this way.

I know nothing about these subjects.

First, I think the dollars...

The best way to keep the dollar sound is to make the American dollar and the American economy more sound.

You can't keep the dollar sound.

Now, how do you make the American economy sound?

Well, my God, we've got it.

We've got to, first of all, keep the inflation under control as much as we can.

But we've got to see that this economy moves up.

And it must be done.

That means more productivity and reduction of the market.

It doesn't move.

The difficult thing is that the American Congress reacted to the people.

We've got an invitation.

They will do things.

We will be facing a situation

It would be very, very bad.

You know what's going to happen here.

Now we have one problem we're going to have in the very near future, which I'd like for you to think about.

I asked earlier, there's a bill that I vetoed last year, and it didn't change.

It's a bill providing public service jobs.

It's in the WPA.

We have our as a substitute for it.

It's a data bill that provides .

This would cost $2,000.

We didn't face the proposition where the Congress will turn down our manpower and send it down here for signature or veto.

Their bill, their bill, providing for eight and a half, two and a half million public service jobs.

I personally think it's wrong, long term, to do anything wrong, correction, all that sort of thing.

I don't believe this.

We have to do this, yes.

These jobs,

whether we ought to consider, uh, that's a, that's,

You ought to consider me going along and using me for the purpose of trying to make a dent, not in the unemployment in terms of its real sense, but in terms basically of the direct value of the thing I have.

I personally believe that if we didn't have the problems with Congress and the election and so forth, that if I don't find that we're going to stay at six or six and a half or even go up to seven, we'd probably be a goddamn hell of a thing for the economy for another year or two.

Politically, I fear that if it stays at six or goes up to six and a half or so forth, before the ballot was unleashed here, that then,

it may become a political issue that will become so embedded in the public mind that it will be very difficult, even if it starts to come down.

If it stays too long, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Now, what I mean is that in Navy, that we will have to consider, I haven't decided yet, but I want you to think about it politically.

I've got the mind kind of political.

But in Navy, we did this jackass bill.

Assuming that it can regard the jobs, mainly for the purposes that we reduce the unemployment on Earth from six to ten.

That will happen.

And when we come to the next year, the economy is going to launch.

We hope to know which is true or not.

Having started with that topic, that's basically just something to think about.

The other side of the coin.

And all this is a question of time.

I so believe, or I believe that, and, uh, economists and economists are not, you know, inflation goes to the economy, but inflation, inflation is not going to, uh, to, in my view,

Unless on employment studies, inflation is going to continue to be a concern.

I read this in the back of the first quarter, and going, frankly, through the whole of the paper, it was one-half of what it was last year, the rate of inflation.

I used to think that.

I looked at the wholesale prices of each other's bodies earlier on, and what is the least

somewhat encouraging about that is that, as far as manufacturing prices are concerned, they did not rise.

They were pretty much settled.

This is food.

Food came up, and rapidly moved, and they held the marker.

It would be reflected in the marker, and it would get down, down, down.

It would get down, down, down, and drop the marker, and it would get down.

But anyway, now, now that I'm saying this, let us suppose, looking at this economy, where do we have this economy?

Let us suppose that we, we see, and we'll take another look at the numbers, let's say the 50th of May, especially, and let's move along with that.

The question is, whether we have a chance to manage the germs that stick to us.

And looking at the equation, of course, we have a question as to what we would do if that happened.

Now, our other question, you know, is just totally committed to setting up a wage price order.

I personally have a strong conviction that all this preaching and so forth simply will not work.

And I'm willing to put the thing straight in the eye if we have to at a later time.

But I think, temporarily,

Correcting them at this point is not the right thing.

I know that Ironman thinks that we're just belittling the matches.

We're just doing something about it.

The matches should be very, very transitory.

If after five to six months, if not in that location, you're welcome to let them go out.

We can slowly pull it.

Maybe next year.

When it's too late to find out what we're working on.

I think we might seriously consider, if we have a continued problem, if, for example, the economy is moving up, the inflation is the issue, just slightly on the way to price freeze, legal and law enforcement.

I'm not trying to get you to give any answers now.

What I want you to do, because you will see this from a political standpoint, as well as from an economic standpoint,

We've got to deploy the program.

Let's have it like all the weapons we've got.

And remember this one thing, that there's nothing more important than having this economy look good in November.

I mean, not in November, but September and October of next year.

Let me tell you, on the international front, we're going to look pretty good.

We're going to look good because we're going to be married a long time.

We will have made progress in the China problem.

And by the end of the war, sir, that is, sir, either of the other two will be a dead end.

And it's not going to be a dead end, but we give it away.

You know, in this deal with the Russians, we have, I mean, it's extremely a sensitive problem.

And if the Russians were, it's not a problem.

I'm just aware of it, but it's hard for us to have it.

But the deal we have, the deal that we've been making with Russians, and I tell that to many people, I mean, we've got to free some offensive weapons in exchange for these.

We've got to work with more people.

They don't, you know, and we're hand-holding them.

There is, John, the permanent thing.

We've got to get it permanent.

It's ready to go.

And if they, and they need that very badly with their deal with the Germans, our...

or really if they screw this up we try to easily pull that back so there's a chance for a deal with the russians there are things going on in china today but i'm not talking about but they're extremely selective in the american system what i'm going to say is that next year is about this whole situation

could turn out to be the only major issue that we can have here next year.

Because basically people say, well, sure, if you don't have more initiative, people will be stealing or something else.

And we've got this, but by God, what about the body?

So, with that in mind, I think that we've got to look at everything

and a way to play this game to look good by the time the election comes around.

And we cannot think in terms, we just cannot think in terms of, well, what's going to happen in the future of the United States five years from now?

What's going to happen to the budget and all that sort of thing?

You know, I had to take on this idea.

I took on Johnson.

uh, numbers from the right of law, and the $28 million deficit that he had in 1968.

You know, if I had been running for president, I would have done exactly the same thing, for Christ's sakes.

You know what I mean?

He was seeing to it that the economy was goddamn good in the election.

Right?

That's why he did it.

Now, sure, it happened at the time of the 4th Amendment.

You're on $28 million deficit.

But he was being damn sure that, uh, it damn near worked.

If the war had been such a horrible drag, how could we have won the election?

Now, what we come on now is, we are damn fools.

I think we're damn fools on the end.

We want to do the right thing, but we're damn fools to allow, to put ourselves, either to put ourselves in the ring, or to fail to do those things with the economy that we could do, that will assure

or not a negative issue on the economy.

And I would put a large amount next to me.

Or the reason that the Democratic nominee, John, is going to be either

It isn't going to be Stu Jackson.

And it isn't going to be Walter Ramos.

I mean, they, uh, soon they're going to get a hell of a rough fight over Stu.

They're going to be not made to test, but they're going to crash the project.

Due to the fact that, uh, it's not because of Vietnam, it's because he's hard-fired on Russia.

He's crashed on it.

He beat it.

Well, well, you know what I mean, John?

He can be president, so can Stu.

And there it was.

As far as these other three are concerned, just speaking of the, speaking first of foreign policy, excuse me, second of the economy, excuse me, third, this whole attitude of her messages with regard to climate and so forth, all three of those guys are bad.

there we have to do whatever we we need

to be sure that if you get rid of it, that none of it is straight on.

That's what's important.

Because what's going to happen to the next part of the year?

They're going to run a hundred billion.

I've got my organization.

I've tried to stimulate them to generate some ideas for you.

I've insisted now that all our top people have, by Friday and noon,

some ideas every single week.

And we're going to have, if this comes up, you know, I don't know if we're going to produce anything, but at least try to stimulate them to think about it.

Think about what's happening in their area.

It's going to be a benefit.

One parent said he said, you know, whether Chelsea's got two years that you've got back.

We talked about the reorganization thing, whereas we to set up indemnity, in other words, to raise the rank of your indemnity .

Yes, sir.

And then second, to provide as many assistant secretaries as you want .

Yes, all done.

All right.

That's great.

And I'll get with it this week.

I thought about this wage and price thing.

I know you don't like it.

I agree with you on the wage and price for it.

The only reason for a wage and price for it is to try to be able to say what didn't work.

But if you do that, then you have to be prepared to take the next step, which is to go all the way.

You ought not to institute unless you're prepared.

I have no question about that because it's not going to work.

It's not going to work, and it hasn't worked for anybody since I was there.

And then you hurt yourself more than you help.

Now, the question I can turn over to my people, which I haven't discussed with them, is whether you are going to put on a freeze right now, wage the price of it, fight inflation, believing that people will get so sick by next year that you didn't remove it.

That's one possibility.

The other possibility is that we let this thing go.

Freeze, freeze.

And then we let it go until next year.

Until it's late enough in the year, where they don't know whether or not it's going to work, or not work, or whether they're indecisive.

And then if you have a hundred more to go.

Now those are the only two alternatives that I've seen on the inflation front.

because you're not going to get a current unemployment.

And if it wasn't the way that the price frees up, what effect is it going to have on the unemployment?

There are two reasons.

One is unemployment.

The other is inflation.

Well, there will be divided opinions.

I personally think that it probably would have a good effect on employment, and it would have a good effect on industry and business.

I think it would prove something that they don't now believe.

They don't now believe

that you're going to take the hard steps to fight inflation.

So they're reluctant to make expenditures expand.

They think inflation is going to continue to be with us.

This is what's going to hurt us on interest rates.

And they're just waiting to push up these interest rates.

If this happens to any appreciable extent, you may not have a lot of choice about what you do.

Because if interest rates go up too much,

It's going to stifle home building.

It's going to stifle a great part of this economy almost overnight.

Now, I said that to these bankers in Europe.

They didn't like it.

They're mad as hell, American bankers.

He drove me up to some parking lots, and Dave Rockefeller and I had a long talk.

And I said, now, Dave, I want you to know why I did so.

I said, I know why you did it, but I said, I want you to know why I said what I did.

And I said, if you raise him again, I'm not going to back him again.

I said, I'm not holding stockholders, and I'm not going to need directors.

And I said, I've got a stockholder that directs the holders of the bank, and I know he won't make money.

But I said, that ain't the position I'm in.

I said, I'm Secretary of Treasury.

And I said, I'm trying to do our thing to help the president maintain some reasonable control over inflation at the same time stimulating this economy to higher interest rates.

Worst damn thing to happen to us.

That's right.

And I said, you're not going to get him to like it.

You're not going to get me to like it.

I said, now, just that simple.

I was arguing about it.

Well, Arthur, Arthur basically advised us, yes.

He doesn't know.

Well, he, you know, he gets it.

Well, he gets over there, and they really do.

Well, they all get to talk to these central bankers, and they all get into this because of our low interest rates.

And then they go, there's still some goddamn office.

They really are.

There's some goddamn office you're all talking about.

But he gets...

And, well, a professor like that, unless you can be frank, but a professor like that, they won't talk to me.

That's right.

This is what he did.

You know, just as long as you trade, you die.

I mean, when it comes to policies and so forth and so on, he's here to do his study.

And he and I have had a very hard time talking about it.

And he knows you're not going to get it the way the policies were.

And I've told him that he's not going to get it.

And I've offered a reason, John, as an idol, an argument, and stuff.

If I take that step, I've got to go all the way.

And if we're going to go all the way, I've got to go all the way.

Take one step.

I'm not going to screw around.

That's right.

And I mean, if you do it, if you all go down there overnight, so that they can't have us fill up.

They know if you put a waste price forward, if you're just setting the space so everyone will get the prices right.

See, the breeze is something else.

You can let the breeze on.

That's right.

And the difficulty is,

You have no enforcement in here?

No.

We have no enforcement.

It really creates only hope.

The problem is that if you took off, if you laid home for a reason and took it off before the election, everybody would immediately get their prices and wages up.

You see, you hope and think of it.

You may hit them again, so they try to recover, and they recover too fast.

Before next fall?

Well, we don't decide about that.

No, that's not true.

That's what you remember.

We're thinking of everything.

Yes, sir.

Now, in terms of the stimulating the economy, do you think it is a job well?

Yes, sir.

In honor of the advance?

Let me suggest this moment, and I'll think about it a great deal more, but if you have to do it on the basis that you're going to use it to try to hire those who are wealthy, those who are local, the American people,

That, uh, we can try to get people to see where the trash is off the road and put them in paid jobs.

Maybe, maybe, right, and I shouldn't say that on that basis, but at least that's where you're going to start.

Right.

You know, all of that stuff.

And if this all comes over, reduce your welfare growth.

So you can.

We can at least think about that.

But I will think about this bill and talk to John Friday.

And I think about the tax that we got into.

It's for the tax.

Only the obligation to tax is reduction of property.

There is no other gun issue.

That's what I'm there for.

I have a point.

And you're better off, I mean, than fighting the bullets straight off and saying, I'll protect you.

I have a plan.

It's got to be done.

I mean, just slap on an entire division.

I don't care, I don't know what it is.

But it's one of the problems with revenue sharing is that it doesn't offer to

The average person's property tax would be, because we give a bonus to those cities that make greater tax efforts, so it's an incentive for them to raise cash forever.

That isn't good, isn't it?

No, it really isn't.

But we got into that this morning.

That's it.

And, well, I just said that they asked if this could be used to reduce taxes.

And I said, yes, if they reduce taxes on homes, I think it ought to be a very worthwhile objection.

I said, frankly, one of the things that's troubling this administration is the property tax on homes.

But he said, one thing I do want to address is I want the property tax raised.

So that you can just come out and say, if you know what's happening, it's not a problem, it's simple.

That's how we say it.

That's how you reduce your property taxes.

And the average person, even though we know he pays more in indirect taxes, it's that bill that comes in twice a year, and he has to pay it, and the old lady's got to go down to her large hand.

Right?

And the people that own their property are all against us.

Well, that's what most of them do.

That's right.

And I think they're going to have to do it.

They should give them credit.

They have to give them credit on their evolution.

Or appreciate it on their

We can find a way to do that.

I don't know if we can do that without congressional authority.

I don't think we can.

I don't know.

But all you have to do is vote.

Vote.

Well, we'll see what it costs, but we may have to raise taxes.

We may have to put our value in taxes.

We may have to institute a holding tax.

I'm really worried about that.

If the people are convinced that you're really trying to get a dollar's worth of value for a dollar spent, then it'll send an increase in taxes.

If, particularly with the one hand, you raise taxes in one area, which they don't feel right, and take it off in another area where they do feel that's correct, then we've got to have property tax relief investigated and paying back.

That's correct.

And it's going to cost us X billion if we give you $600 million.

or a thousand dollars credit or a thousand dollar deduction for your taxes make a total deduction if you want to help it all out and see that we'll put on a value-added tax and move with it but we're thinking i'm forever thinking about all of these things and we're not going to have to do anything about any of these on these investigations and so forth until around i think maybe we'll probably meet in california i'm going to probably set it up

Maybe.

I will be out there for a few days.

Well, they basically say that the economy is moving.

It's moving on a solid base.

They're predicting $1.53 trillion.

And that they predict that employment by next fall will be down to 5%.

uh or next year they said that five percent that's by january and they didn't say what month but they said it would be down to five and a half by the end of this year that means the right movement you girls said it just moves right that's all it doesn't go up that's right you could just have this right movement before the chairman predicts seven percent

But nevertheless, all I know as a parent is, I just, all I know is this.

I know that in war and in politics and in the economy, it's all the same.

You've always got to plan for the worst and hope for the best and talk for the best.

That's how I am.

I talk, I'll beat his head off, I'm confident in myself, and I know he's going to go out sober.

There's lots of stronger signs.

No question.

Retail stands are strong.

Housing is still strong.

The Dock and Bra Hill survey is extremely interesting.

So we've got 35% increase in funds for construction.

The other signs, it moves a lot in the other direction.

But generally speaking, the indicators are stronger.

And I almost see a copy of the top economists for the works who go off that line.

in that direction.

So it may be that we're on the brink of a movement.

And the real key to it, of course, is the confidence factor, et cetera.

If you forget that thing, tip.

And one of the areas where you've got to tip, where we really haven't practiced, is California.

I just went to California.

you know, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,

I mean, then that money starts to flow in, and your sales go up, and everything goes, and the economy moves, and things like that.

There's a hell of a lot of savings around the country.

There's a lot of money ready to go.

The question is whether people are going to have the confidence to spend it.

Once they start spending it, the inventories are down, I understand.

Is this all true?

Yes.

Well, they are, and these are potential areas of growth.

I don't see anything really to be discouraged about.

I mean, we all will get a little discouraged from time to time because, you know, you're always lurking in the back of your minds and thought, well, maybe we are wrong.

But I don't think so.

I think we're still right.

I think the plan is right.

The market's doing exactly what I think the economy dictates it to.

It went down to about 900.

It's moving back up.

It's going to float in this area to 925.

Back down again, I think, until the rest of the economy catches up with it.

Yes, it will.

900 or better.

And by next year, at least we're over 1,000.

We're already on 5,000.

That's going to be a very good sign.

First time in history.

And they just started coming soon.

Let's be prepared.

My whole view is on economic policy.

And we want to do the right thing, of course.

But on the other hand, as we approach this election, my God, we are not going to leave anything unturned.

We're not going to be very big heroes and lose because of the economy, right?

If we lose for other reasons, that's just too bad.

In other words, if we screw up the foreign policy, we deserve to lose.

That's my view.

To lose on the economy is just as stupid as it is.

Well, I agree.

We don't have a right to ensure, and we're not going to.

I still think we need to pick out

a couple of entities.

The thing we need is a psychological function.

Now, I've talked to many people.

I've talked to two or three.

But, and I discount for kindness some of their remarks, but they all say that among the people they've talked to, that the more us get tough attitude we had in Munich was music to their ears.

They said, this is great.

This is the greatest thing we've heard.

Now, I think you've got to get humorous.

and will, looking for some something in the foreign affairs scene.

And it could be related to domestic affairs.

And Pete, maybe it is a family issue.

Maybe it's against the Japanese.

Maybe it's against the Chinese.

It's down in Congress down here.

Maybe there's some move you can take.

Let's pick out a couple of enemies that you show the American businessmen, and you are out to protect their enemies.

That means it's how big it is.

And you don't want to rock the international boat to do it.

But if you could put it in cargo on Japanese automobiles for 90 days, until you could study the American automobile productive capacity, or something like that.

Yeah, we've made it through without that generous of a nice attorney.

You don't have to think about it.

on the so-called Mayday arrest.

And I said, and I said, and he was surprised, and Ron would be surprised.

The bastards found out when they got home that they had, they were wrong to keep talking about it.

He says, I wanted every one of those questions.

I mean, I wanted them to be on that side, and I wanted them to be on the other side.

First, I think he said, yeah, second point, however, I think,

It seems to me that the press, of course, I'm sort of known for press conferences.

It's not easy, but I'm sort of known for being prepared, for being cool, for not getting flustered, for being generous, for being firm, and so forth.

I think this has taken them all off so far.

Everybody says it's not nice.

These nasty bastards in the press act their way to the president to act like the president.

Try this one.

About the third time, I had a question about the 888.

I think that could well have been a time.

And I considered it the next time, and I couldn't be able to do it.

I'm still angry toward the individual.

But to say, oh, look here, that's the third time that same question has been asked.

Let's understand, the great majority of the members of the press disagree with me on the matter of these so-called downstairs.

You have a right to your beliefs.

I have a right to mine.

I have the responsibility to see that this government continues to run.

I've got to meet that responsibility.

Anybody that comes to this city for the purpose of stopping this government and breaks the law is going to be arrested.

He said, now that's the law.

I'm going to hear about that.

Get a crack at running the church.

I think that they do it.

What do you think?

I'm absolutely for it.

The disadvantage of that is that, of course, there are so many people, not people in the press, that paint the image that I'm a hell of a fighter, you know what I mean, I'm mean, all that sort of thing.

I'm inclined to think that as far as that average television viewer is concerned, he sees the press conference being cool, composed,

Three.

And I think they like that, up to a point.

But I think sometimes they might say, well, thank God he told those bastards a lie.

That's right.

And if I had one other thought of what you said, and just say we're here on national television, all three networks, talking to millions of people, and surely there's more to concern in this American republic than what happened to 2,000 businesses who came here to try to stop working in their government.

Get over that question, please.

That's right.

That's good.

I think you did exactly right.

I think you, what you're coming through, which is the important thing, what you're coming through is a strong man, strong energy, and so forth.

It's very important that you do that.

But in the case, you see, the head color of our defense, we haven't got anybody else that comes through.

Mitchell is a strong man, but Mitchell does not come through.

I mean, he basically is.

He doesn't come through weak, but he just doesn't come through any color.

He can't.

It's not his way.

Mitchell is just a tough, no-nonsense guy.

The cops all know he's strong, but the folks don't.

But Rogers?

No way.

He comes through smooth and sophisticated and weak.

Laird, Laird, pound the table, nobody believes him.

Nobody believes Laird.

Rodney works hard, both of you work hard.

They're not heavy enough.

Stans, fine piece, not taken too seriously.

Richardson is basically intellectual, a good strong, I mean, a good, capable administrator.

Harden.

You see, the problem we've got is we've got a whole damn cabin.

All of them want to do the right thing.

All of them are decent men.

All of them have a goddamn good show.

But when it comes to getting up there and finding any help, you need basically down someplace in that ramp out of the cabin.

You need an A-team.

That's right.

People like that.

You talk about a terrible hero.

That's right.

Yeah.

You even talk about that crazy handle.

At least he has a little color.

That's right.

You've got to have a little.

You should.

Correct.

You should.

You know, whatever.

You can't just manufacture it, but you have to build on whatever your personality is.

And I don't want to get a reputation just being a tough guy.

You don't have that.

But I'm going to be myself.

That's right.

That's all I'm going to have to be.

Well, it's a matter of fact.

As a matter of fact, basically, I would, I feel that I have, I have delivered quite a bit, quite a, a very, you know, composed role and all, I'm sorry, during these demonstrations and so forth and so on.

I'm listening.

Last year, Campo, you know, you see, indirectly, that was the right issue, right?

In other words, it's the enemy there is, I'm sure.

And I'm sure that I wouldn't give a second thought to it.

You'd just crack them?

Yes, sir.

I sure would.

And then I'd go and find out what the state does.

And just say, I've been talking to hundreds or tens of millions of people in the area.

They have some interest in other matters.

And say, would you proceed with the order, please?

Thank you, Mr. President.

I'll see you at 8 o'clock tomorrow.

Your order is just going to be in the mansion.

All right.

Thank you, Mr. President.

All right.

Is that all right?

All right.