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Conversation 511-003

TapeTape 511StartMonday, June 7, 1971 at 11:49 AMEndMonday, June 7, 1971 at 11:55 AMTape start time01:16:07Tape end time01:20:22ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Butterfield, Alexander P.;  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon met with Alexander P. Butterfield to coordinate administrative scheduling and later consulted with John D. Ehrlichman regarding the appointment of a new General Counsel for the Department of Labor. Nixon expressed a desire to appoint someone aligned with the administration to gain political credit with business leaders, while also vetting the candidate to avoid the confirmation difficulties associated with G. Harrold Carswell. The discussion shifted to labor relations, with Nixon expressing frustration toward business executives who criticized his stance on unions despite his efforts to manage congressional action like the Davis-Bacon Act.

Labor DepartmentGeneral Counsel appointmentLabor unionsPolitical strategyCongressional relationsJohn D. Ehrlichman
AudioNARA Description

On June 7, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:49 am and 11:55 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 511-003 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 511-3

Date: June 7, 1971
Time: Unknown after 11:49 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Alexander P. Butterfield at 11:49 am

     Call to Martin J. Caserio
           -Winton M. (“Red”) Blount

Stephen B. Bull entered at 11:49 am

     President's schedule
          -George P. Shultz
          -John D. Ehrlichman

Bull left at 11:49 am

     Butterfield's forthcoming conversation with Blount
          -President's conversation with Caserio

Butterfield left and Ehrlichman entered at 11:50 am

     Labor Department
          -Appointment of General Counsel
               -Richard T. Burres
               -Credit for the administration
               -George Meany's possible reaction
               -Burres
                    -Charles W. Colson's comment
                           -G. Harrold Carswell
                    -Ehrlichman's forthcoming meeting with Clark MacGregor
          -George W. Romney
          -Businessmen's comments

     Labor unions
          -President's understanding
          -Harry S. Truman
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
          -John F. Kennedy
          -Lyndon B. Johnson
          -Businessmen in anti-union group
                -Ehrlichman's comments
          -Possible Congressional action
                -Davis-Bacon Act
          -Possible targeting as enemies
                -Leaders versus members
                -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                -Meany
                      -Colson

Recording ends at an unknown time while the conversation is in progress.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Is there any more that I can call them on the stereo that I can pass on the red lines up?
No, I said he's letting go of two seats tonight.
I think he's very, very hard.
Well, let me trick him.
His daughter, well, it's a great experience enough to watch him.
And all the work will argue this ever since.
It's important that this is told to me today.
I don't want to let him know I heard it first.
I'll let you know when I read the show.
a great golf course here.
I caught him in the golf course yesterday.
I said to him, get into the burning tree.
And I hit him around.
I've done everything I can on it.
I don't want to hear any more from him about it.
We can't get into it.
We didn't get into it in the summer.
Do you have any objections as far as the General Counsel?
No, I don't even know if there's an objection there at this point.
I want to move on.
I want to get some credit for it.
All of a sudden, all the cosmetics, you can get credit in the Congress, you can get credit all through the labor, I mean the business groups that we're putting in somebody in the General Counsel for the first time is going to be on our side.
and I've played it all the way down the line.
See, what I mean is, John, it's kind of an appointment where you're going to look quietly.
Let it out, let me squeal.
Colson raised, the only question he did raise is whether he was confirmable, or whether we were getting into a Carswell situation, where we were getting first, yeah, for everything.
Well, I asked, very hotly, I asked these guys in the department, and they said, well, of course you didn't know him, Carswell.
Yes, sir.
Well, that's the only question, Chuck.
Great.
And I have not had a text chat with McGregor to see what his reaction is.
Check it out.
I don't want to send somebody who's in federal defense and somebody who is, who's on the right.
I am not going to find out.
You can't have a Labor Department lawyer at that job.
Well, damn it, I'm not going to have another one in there.
You've got that government's loaded on that side.
I think for us it's a good signal.
We've used him, as you know, for two years, and he's very knowledgeable in this area.
So, you see, it's going to help a lot of people.
But, gosh, the business men sit in there.
That's where you've got some labor management.
Of course, George Romney talks about that.
Thank you, gentlemen.
They really are.
This is the boardroom syndrome.
This is all they've got to talk about.
All the boardroom.
All day we start to keep up.
Let's do something about the unions.
Now, what in the name of Christ are they talking about?
They've got the only president in this office that ever understood the unions, frankly.
And then, you know, Crowman...
For I had the slightest idea what a mercy union was about, John.
And of course, Kennedy was in their pocket.
Johnson was in their pocket.
So here I sit, fighting for God and battle day after day, and I don't quit seeing these people.
I went to New York and spoke to the chief executives of these 30 corporations in this anti-union group.
This was three weeks ago.
And they gave me this whole thing.
And I said, look, this is a congressional problem.
Go elect us a congress.
Just what you said to these fellows in there.
And they said, well, we passed.
What do we do?
We put up the damn bill.
They haven't even given it here.
They haven't started it.
They haven't given it to us.
They're going to put it on everything.
The way that we do it, even if it takes a day, we've got to support the Congress now.
That's the point.
That's the point.
And, John, the union don't keep walking.
I'm more and more into the fight.
But can't we separate the two?
I just don't know.
He is a total partisan Democrat.
Chuck Colson is not quite as sophisticated here.
Thank you.
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