Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 511 › Conversation 511-003

Nixon, Butterfield & Bull on Labor Department and General Counsel appointment

Monday, June 7, 1971 · 11:49 AM–11:55 AM ET · Oval Office

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Butterfield, Alexander P.; Bull, Stephen B.Conversation511-003 on Tape 511 (tape position 01:16:07–01:20:22)StartMonday, June 7, 1971 at 11:49 AMEndMonday, June 7, 1971 at 11:55 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 511-003 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Alexander P. Butterfield to coordinate administrative scheduling and later consulted with John D. Ehrlichman regarding the appointment of a new General Counsel for the Department of Labor. Nixon expressed a desire to appoint someone aligned with the administration to gain political credit with business leaders, while also vetting the candidate to avoid the confirmation difficulties associated with G. Harrold Carswell. The discussion shifted to labor relations, with Nixon expressing frustration toward business executives who criticized his stance on unions despite his efforts to manage congressional action like the Davis-Bacon Act.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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· Timestamps are positions within the full tape recording.
1:16:18Is there any more that I can call them on the stereo that I can pass on the red lines up?
1:16:22No, I said he's letting go of two seats tonight.
1:16:25I think he's very, very hard.
1:16:27Well, let me trick him.
1:16:29His daughter, well, it's a great experience enough to watch him.
1:16:32And all the work will argue this ever since.
1:16:34It's important that this is told to me today.
1:16:36I don't want to let him know I heard it first.
1:16:38I'll let you know when I read the show.
1:16:47a great golf course here.
1:16:47I caught him in the golf course yesterday.
1:16:50I said to him, get into the burning tree.
1:16:52And I hit him around.
1:16:54I've done everything I can on it.
1:16:56I don't want to hear any more from him about it.
1:17:00We can't get into it.
1:17:01We didn't get into it in the summer.
1:17:06Do you have any objections as far as the General Counsel?
1:17:12No, I don't even know if there's an objection there at this point.
1:17:16I want to move on.
1:17:18I want to get some credit for it.
1:17:20All of a sudden, all the cosmetics, you can get credit in the Congress, you can get credit all through the labor, I mean the business groups that we're putting in somebody in the General Counsel for the first time is going to be on our side.
1:17:35and I've played it all the way down the line.
1:17:37See, what I mean is, John, it's kind of an appointment where you're going to look quietly.
1:17:41Let it out, let me squeal.
1:17:45Colson raised, the only question he did raise is whether he was confirmable, or whether we were getting into a Carswell situation, where we were getting first, yeah, for everything.
1:17:55Well, I asked, very hotly, I asked these guys in the department, and they said, well, of course you didn't know him, Carswell.
1:18:06Yes, sir.
1:18:07Well, that's the only question, Chuck.
1:18:10Great.
1:18:10And I have not had a text chat with McGregor to see what his reaction is.
1:18:14Check it out.
1:18:14I don't want to send somebody who's in federal defense and somebody who is, who's on the right.
1:18:19I am not going to find out.
1:18:20You can't have a Labor Department lawyer at that job.
1:18:26Well, damn it, I'm not going to have another one in there.
1:18:28You've got that government's loaded on that side.
1:18:31I think for us it's a good signal.
1:18:35We've used him, as you know, for two years, and he's very knowledgeable in this area.
1:18:39So, you see, it's going to help a lot of people.
1:18:42But, gosh, the business men sit in there.
1:18:46That's where you've got some labor management.
1:18:50Of course, George Romney talks about that.
1:18:54Thank you, gentlemen.
1:18:55They really are.
1:18:56This is the boardroom syndrome.
1:18:58This is all they've got to talk about.
1:19:00All the boardroom.
1:19:01All day we start to keep up.
1:19:02Let's do something about the unions.
1:19:04Now, what in the name of Christ are they talking about?
1:19:06They've got the only president in this office that ever understood the unions, frankly.
1:19:09And then, you know, Crowman...
1:19:13For I had the slightest idea what a mercy union was about, John.
1:19:17And of course, Kennedy was in their pocket.
1:19:20Johnson was in their pocket.
1:19:21So here I sit, fighting for God and battle day after day, and I don't quit seeing these people.
1:19:28I went to New York and spoke to the chief executives of these 30 corporations in this anti-union group.
1:19:36This was three weeks ago.
1:19:38And they gave me this whole thing.
1:19:42And I said, look, this is a congressional problem.
1:19:45Go elect us a congress.
1:19:47Just what you said to these fellows in there.
1:19:49And they said, well, we passed.
1:19:52What do we do?
1:19:52We put up the damn bill.
1:19:54They haven't even given it here.
1:19:56They haven't started it.
1:19:57They haven't given it to us.
1:19:58They're going to put it on everything.
1:20:00The way that we do it, even if it takes a day, we've got to support the Congress now.
1:20:04That's the point.
1:20:05That's the point.
1:20:05And, John, the union don't keep walking.
1:20:10I'm more and more into the fight.
1:20:13But can't we separate the two?
1:20:17I just don't know.
1:20:19He is a total partisan Democrat.
1:20:23Chuck Colson is not quite as sophisticated here.
1:20:46Thank you.

NARA Description

On June 7, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:49 am and 11:55 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 511-003 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 511-3

Date: June 7, 1971
Time: Unknown after 11:49 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Alexander P. Butterfield at 11:49 am

     Call to Martin J. Caserio
           -Winton M. (“Red”) Blount

Stephen B. Bull entered at 11:49 am

     President's schedule
          -George P. Shultz
          -John D. Ehrlichman

Bull left at 11:49 am

     Butterfield's forthcoming conversation with Blount
          -President's conversation with Caserio

Butterfield left and Ehrlichman entered at 11:50 am

     Labor Department
          -Appointment of General Counsel
               -Richard T. Burres
               -Credit for the administration
               -George Meany's possible reaction
               -Burres
                    -Charles W. Colson's comment
                           -G. Harrold Carswell
                    -Ehrlichman's forthcoming meeting with Clark MacGregor
          -George W. Romney
          -Businessmen's comments

     Labor unions
          -President's understanding
          -Harry S. Truman
          -Dwight D. Eisenhower
          -John F. Kennedy
          -Lyndon B. Johnson
          -Businessmen in anti-union group
                -Ehrlichman's comments
          -Possible Congressional action
                -Davis-Bacon Act
          -Possible targeting as enemies
                -Leaders versus members
                -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                -Meany
                      -Colson

Recording ends at an unknown time while the conversation is in progress.

Also recorded on June 7, 1971

  • 004-052 10:40 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Adele (Langston) Rogers talked on the telephone from 10:40 am to 10:42 am.
  • 004-053 10:42 AM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 10:42 am and 2:40 pm.
  • 511-002 11:05 AM · 54 sec — met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:05 am and 11:49 am.
  • 512-029 11:50 AM · 40 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, George P. Shultz, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:50 am to 12:34 pm.
  • 512-030 12:34 PM · 28 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:34 pm.
  • 512-031 12:35 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, William D. Brewer, W. Marshall Wright, Stephen B. Bull, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:35 pm and 12:41 pm.
  • 512-032 12:41 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Rose Mary Woods met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:41 pm to 1:10 pm.
  • 513-001 12:43 PM · 43 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House at 12:43 pm.

All 53 conversations from June 7, 1971 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 511-003, June 7, 1971. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/511-003 (accessed October 18, 2026).