Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 516-003
Date: Thursday, June 10, 1971 at 10:56 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Flanigan, Peter M.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/516-003

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] President, that railroad route is in the cabin from Peter Platt.
[0:18] He'd like to see you.
[0:19] All right.
[0:19] I'll get him right in.
[0:20] I've made you one, President.
[0:23] This is a unique group of railroad presidents.
[0:26] Nine out of ten of them make money.
[0:26] I see the side of the page in here.
[0:28] Where's Mike?
[0:29] The guy that asked us to call him over?
[0:33] Ben Biagio.
[0:35] He's the son of your son?
[0:36] Yes, sir.
[0:37] And he's the best of the lot.
[0:38] He'll be, sir.
[0:39] He's the only one involved in this sort of man-event meeting.
[0:42] All right.
[0:42] The only loser here is Bill Moore, who was taken over in the Penn Central.
[0:48] And, of course, he's got to be serious.
[0:50] Who's that, sir?
[0:50] Somebody at the Penn Central.
[0:51] What's he there?
[0:52] I don't know.
[0:52] I don't know.
[0:52] Were you with him?
[0:53] No, sir.
[0:53] I wasn't.
[0:55] I have no idea.
[0:56] just to thank those fellows for working so hard, I suppose.
[0:59] No, no, why do you send a land tractor?
[1:02] Oh, John Volpe.
[1:04] John Volpe snuck it through and got it up in the hill.
[1:05] Yes, sir.
[1:06] I think you've got a heck of a problem with that.
[1:07] We're going to put money into that.
[1:09] You've got a nice man in charge, Roger Rood.
[1:10] Yes.
[1:11] I like him.
[1:12] We've got a good board, but if they can turn passenger railroad service into a money-making business, they're going to be geniuses.
[1:20] The only way they're going to do it is to take the unions and have them have a different attitude toward the folks.
[1:25] The trouble is, in railroad speed, it's like airline.
[1:40] You notice, you notice how you were riding that line on Eastern.
[1:43] I'd change the line, the line, I'd go to Florida.
[1:45] I quit riding Eastern, not because Eastern was the safest and the best, the rest, but their service was a lot of ugly services and poor food and so on.
[1:48] So I rode National.
[1:49] I hated the National.
[1:50] I loved Eastern, but they were nicer.
[1:51] Here.
[1:51] Northeast is the worst line.
[1:52] But Delta is trying to take over Northeast.
[1:58] And Delta has the best service.
[2:04] That's great.
[2:05] And they'll make the end of this whole deal.
[2:09] Take speed ships, everything else.
[2:11] The competition in the future is going to be more on the quality, isn't it?
[2:16] Isn't it going to be on that?
[2:17] Rather than on cost, speed, and the rest.
[2:18] Maybe the train is nice.
[2:18] No, I don't think that train...
[2:20] Going to New York, that mass train, is all that good.
[2:24] I rode it up to Philadelphia.
[2:25] I thought it was fast enough, but I didn't see much grease in it.
[2:29] No.
[2:29] What did you think?
[2:30] Well, I don't even think it's fast enough.
[2:32] I think if you're going to go to New York to spend three and a half hours on a train and you can get there in an hour, I don't think people are going to run.
[2:39] What do you want to talk about here?
[2:41] Well, first, they're going to want to talk about their problems.
[2:44] And the first thing they're going to talk about is financing.
[2:47] We have a bill, and they have a bill.
[2:49] And they're going to push.
[2:51] I think you should just say, we're certainly working on this, gentlemen, and we'll do whatever we think is right.
[3:01] Well, he's not publicly committed, and I think that you could say we're working on it.
[3:05] I don't think John tends to get us into these things a little ahead of time.
[3:10] You might want to point out that we have a little trouble getting these financing bills through the Congress.
[3:16] The second thing they're going to talk to you about is labor.
[3:18] Now, these fellows, of course, don't have any passenger business to speak of anymore, so what they're talking about is just labor costs and productivity.
[3:25] Their real concern is that the labor unions won't allow them to get productive.
[3:29] They insist on full crews when you don't need it.
[3:32] You're going to have to meet with the labor fellows, as you know, from the railroad on Monday.
[3:36] To the extent that you get too far out on a limb, they may come back at you on Monday.
[3:43] So I think it's appropriate to indicate your concern, but I wouldn't get too far out because it'll get faster.
[3:51] Biagini is the fellow you should talk to on the financing.
[3:56] He'll turn it over to a fellow called Graham Claytor.
[3:58] of the Southern Railroad who's good on the labor problem.
[4:03] And then I think it would be appropriate if you said, look, I'm concerned about too much regulation, as you know.
[4:10] And I've had a group here in the White House working with transportation to cut down regulation.
[4:16] I know they've been talking to you.
[4:18] What do you think of our approach?
[4:19] I sure do.
[4:20] Yes.
[4:20] Well, it's Henry Dutacker.
[4:22] And I can give him a short statement of what we're thinking about if you'd like.
[4:30] He'll actually be on your left.
[4:35] John will be on your right.