Nixon, Devine & Timmons on Foreign Policy and Arms Control

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We uh...

I don't have to say it to you in person.

But it keeps the idea loose.

It's very, very important.

The other thing I want to say to you is that it's a total conflict between us.

And in all areas that we're speaking of here, let's take arms control.

And all we're talking about

and we've given away the store and all that sort of thing.

Look, I have other things, but there's nobody that's been in this office in the last 50 years who is less euphoric about the comments than I am and more looking at the interests of the United States and playing those interests as we say things publicly for certain purposes, but it's solely in our own interest in every case.

Second, with regard to arms control, there won't be any deal with the Russians unless we get something for what we get.

In other words, if it's ABM on the one side, we're going to get a limitation on your message lines and other things on the other side.

A hell of a lot of work has been done.

A lot more is going on in ECI.

Whether it comes off

There's a very good chance that it will end this year on that score.

Not a total thing, but a personal.

And it will be not because of any change in our attitude that, well, the Russians are going to be nice guys.

They're out to screw us.

We know that.

And we're going to be good.

But on the other hand, their interests, frankly, their concern about China, their concern about Eastern Europe, their concern about Berlin, their concern also about their own problems

and decide, make it in their interest to do something about arms control.

We have other fish to fry.

But I think what you're going to say, that all the guys that stood up and fought for ABM and so forth, unless you had, we wouldn't have a prayer to make the right kind of a deal.

And there ain't going to be no deal.

If they do not make the deal that is in our self-interest,

a couple weeks ago, where he pointed out and saw the fact that, look, he said all this stuff, and he says that Nixon isn't about to, isn't about to let the United States, the Russians don't make a deal, and we have no choice.

But the bill, we can't bother taking the bill off.

We're both on this.

The Chinese have been up to three years, the Communist Chinese have been up to three years.

But at the present time, although publicly being denied to be a demonstrator for our purposes, at the present time, the Chinese and the Russians are better enemies.

That will not change.

Nothing is going to change.

The reason it will not change is not because one is Chinese and the other is Russians.

The reason it will not change is that in a totalitarian system, they're going to be number one.

And the Chinese aren't about to allow the Russians to be number one.

And the Russians aren't about to allow the Chinese to be number one.

Now, in this great chess game, this, you see, points up the reasons why we, on a very controlled basis, move on the Chinese side.

War goes on and meets the eye there.

Now, people will say, well, Taiwan is worried about this.

They are.

They don't need to worry about our treatment for Taiwan for a reason.

But you need to think about what the Russians are.

Because you see, they see that we could move in another direction.

You see, the Russians don't want to play if they don't play on arms control, if they don't play on a European settlement, on Iran and other things.

and we have another direction in which we can turn, not only to our control, but to the Chinese.

Now, that's the way the game plays, and the same goes in the China.

Now, overlaying it all, there's another point we have in mind with regard to Southeast Asia.

And this is a longer shot, but the Chinese and the Soviet, of course,

hold enormous power over the North Vietnamese.

Because without Soviet and Communist Chinese assistance, they can't do a damn thing.

They, therefore, any desire that they have to negotiate is substantially increased as they see us moving toward the Soviet, possibly, and toward the Chinese, possibly.

So it's related to that.

And that brings me to the key point.

On Vietnam,

Let me say that there will come a time, and it will come in a matter of months, in a very few months, when there's nothing to talk about in negotiations.

There will be no reason when the negotiating track is closed.

Right now, we are at a critical period when there is not a 50-50 chance, but a reasonable chance that we can have a negotiating

for all these exterior reasons, and also because we're coming down on the wire.

The North Vietnamese, badly hurt by Cambodia last year, by Laos this year, and so forth, having arms problems.

And what we need, what we need is we must not have the possibility

45,000 died not because of 400 prisoners given time to stop Vietnam.

That's ridiculous.

But let me say, if you see, this is why I just told John Cooper this, this is why he kept winning.

I said, John, if the Senate does something on this field, you will have to take the responsibility for destroying a reasonable chance to negotiate.

This is the last one.

This is the moment that that

Now, first of all, what does that make me?

That's because we did Laos.

They've got the punch.

But nevertheless, the President of the United States has to write the letters to those 19 women.

It's not that bad.

That's a hard thing to do.

I won't end this war yesterday.

We can't.

But the point is, some of our Democratic friends, Clifford and the rest, are isolated, scared to death.

And what is the fact?

Of course the war is going to be over by 4-7.

As far as I know,

And the band said, well, we urge you to do it.

We force you to do it.

See what I'm saying?

It's like getting out of Cambodia.

Remember they had those Cambodian resolutions?

President Xi got a committee.

Hell, I announced we were going to get out in 60 days.

They knew who we are.

Cooper Church has been gone that day.

But they wanted to say, well, we force you to come.

So the game is out.

The game is over there.

What I'm going to do is show our hard-line guys three things.

One, don't for one moment think

And this fall, in this chair, with my experience, is not playing a tough game with both the Chinese and Russians.

But it serves our interest at the present time to play gold.

And we're doing it right to the hill.

More is going on than you think.

And some very positive news may come out before the end of the year.

I don't promise it, but it could be right.

And out in your country, even with a guy that takes

They want good religion.

Like, I didn't want a good thing about the China move, even though Beanie Blaster and Jerry Ford told me the very first week that I released those rings, you know, I said, damn it, I didn't buy them.

I already want to sell that ring, don't you?

And they don't want it.

They don't care whether the Americans should carry it on.

And they also deceived Beanie Blaster because we developed the American bottoms on them.

Well, God damn it, our labor agents priced themselves out of the market there, and we just got to shit everything we can.

But nevertheless,

They're making progress.

They're copying.

Tell your guys also in Vietnam that there's more going on.

There's more going on in each side.

Can I promise anything?

Not to be sure, but you can be very sure the moment the negotiating track is closed, we'll talk.

Then we'll do that as far as the Republicans are concerned.

They're all going to get the credit if the Republican president does it.

They don't have to be out there saying,

You look at the other administration.

What other administration is the progress of the Soviet Union?

The one that made the one on China.

What other?

Which is definitely not going to affect our time.

But 25 years from now, from that daughter of mine, it's going to be maybe eight years younger than I am at the present time.

It's going to be goddamn important not to have to be the Chinese with nuclear arms poised over the world, right?

Exactly.

That's what the game is about.

They never did.

Johnson never did.

Eisenhower was the last guy, and they cared a little bit about the world affairs.

Johnson didn't understand it.

He was the first to play the game.

But that's the fact.

And so that's the, those are the things that are important to account for.

The other thing I think you should know in the pre-building and domestic science, and I know they're concerned about some of that,

and so forth, but we're really fighting the delay in action against it.

And Congress, I mean, the Congress, every time they turn around, I mean, like that Public Works bill, I mean, they go left, and we just have one hell of a time trying to stop that budget to get out of the water.

Oh, it's terrible.

We're going to have to meet on the next week to determine which ones to veto.

Jerry, you guys are going to have to

Besides, do you want us to do it or not?

Yeah, I'll sign it up.

Great.

There's only one real area of Congress.

You should be aware of these problems we are having to do with H.R.

1.

What do you want to do about it?

Well, first of all, I want to take out that family system.

The Vice President's Refugee Shed.

I had a human conflict with Bill.

I compared it to Carlson, to the crew with Bill, and as opposed to HR1.

Our guys, our guys that are your guys, the backup guys, they don't give a damn what you call a fine assistance.

They don't give a damn what you call a welfare reform.

To them, to the American people, they think it's here.

and they're not going to stand up with you on this.

What do they want to do?

Well, they know that you can't do something with nothing in your cell.

I work with senators, and I sound great, but what incentive do you have?

What incentive do I have?

I'm heavily one of these non-educated kids.

And the guys just come up here.

The work of the senators, I think, is strong enough to... Well, first of all, I can guarantee from our great law, my law model will be important to you guys.

I've got to go through an open rule.

A damn computer coalition will give all the Negroes

I want you to get a stand in and I want you to talk just like this.

I want you to talk about what the facts are.

As far as I'm concerned now, I want you to take the line about

I'm aware that this conference calls for some progress, but I want you to talk to her and see, so that John knows what our options are.

Give me the reading of Spokane-Dougal.

What they may do is to fascinate someone that will have the veto.

That's right.

There's two things, Mr. President.

The number one is to destroy the English border balance.

He sits up there in his ivory tower and sacrosanct.

number two they'll run up this uh another floor and that's the point that you need you have to be

That's the alternative.

Not necessarily.

It's wrong.

Of course it's wrong.

God damn it.

I'm going to be turned around in a minute.

They came in and made 60 demands.

We answered every one of them.

I met with those people who were here.

I told them, I said, I look right at Dave's, he's a nice guy.

I said, now Charlie and all of us are on a level.

I can tell you we're going to do all these things.

I said, we can't.

But I will do this.

I'll be honest with you.

We'll do some.

We won't do others.

And others we'll consider.

And I answered all of them.

I said, that's fair enough.

I said, well, that's fair enough.

I want to be honest with you.

All right.

We agreed to do some.

Some are already going.

We totally couldn't do it.

Let me tell you.

They came back last and said, why did we do all 60?

Let me tell you.

We costed it out.

Put the speaker in the back.

The cost.

If we had approved all 60 of their demands, the cost annually on the federal budget would have been $100 billion, $200 billion, which would have ended $100 billion.

Their 60 demands would have ended annually $100 billion, $200 billion.

In other words, a 50% increase in the budget and a 50% increase in federal taxes across the board.

Now, that's the way.

You've got to say, now, we want to help every special, every

and increases the taxes of all the American people 50% in order to help 12% of the American population.

A billion, a billion, a billion, a billion, a billion, a billion, a billion, a billion, a billion,

billion dollars.

All these things are so easy to say, yes, I'd like to help you.

Yes, I would.

Where the hell are you going to get the money?

Sam's going to Korea with Vice President.

Oh, I understand.

He's on the delegation.

Great.

Thank you.

Great.

It's about time you took a trip or something.

I think he's going on.

Why don't you come back later?

I'll be there in a minute.

All right.

And I'm going to leave my desk.

I thought I'd go, so I did.

I have one more thing to do.

I've got to go.

No comment, folks.

Well, it's been pretty good to see you.

All right.

That's right.

The fact that the Black Caucus is from home and not there to determine the feelings of the majority of our guys, I hope that we do have an opportunity to meet with them in some future.

Well, we plan to hold that.

I want them to set it up and let's do it when the guys are good to be able to charge them up.

As far as the Black Caucus and the Negroes, we, in our version, we have a cross-section of North as well as Southers.

We don't think you're just saying the things that you can do as president or the Republican Party can do.

I agree.

I totally agree.

John Mitchell tends to disagree on only one score.

He thinks we can get some.

My view is, what do you think?

You can get some.

You can buy them.

You can get them.

But you can't get them online and go south.

I don't think we're going to change this.

I think we're wasting our time.

I do notice that they can find online.

Just by the way, I don't know if this is an answer.

Well, I can get you 50% of the house or 20% of the house.

If you're going to open it up, it's going to be a grant.

We will have this meeting maybe before we sign, but there will be some good things coming along.

Nixon, Devine & Timmons on Foreign Policy and Arms Control

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 11, 1971

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