Nixon, Haldeman & Sanchez on State Department and Foreign Policy

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Sir, I need another speech, too.

Because of the boat being on the stand, they thought maybe we could get her to come and do it on Tuesday and have some effect.

But it's going to have to see how it works or what's going on.

I'm going to say, I didn't just want to say that.

And for you also, I want you to find some time in your schedule whenever you can.

He's up on the across the street.

Sometimes you ought to walk over there.

Oh, I do.

I always meet him in his office.

What I'm getting at is, do it again.

He's flyable.

I like him.

His reactions are excellent.

And also, you've got to think about him.

the little inkling of freedom of the China thing?

Yes.

You could tell a great deal, but I would say on that, you could say that it would blow the whole goddamn thing in the bureaucracy.

That is, you could give him just an inkling, that's right.

And I think you can, but you could say that the way I would present it to him is to say, well, the president's very close to ya-ya.

For over a year, he has been exploring the ya-ya, the possibility of

of, uh, you know, of, uh, the whole kind of man-to-man industry.

So, yeah, it's a level that would be very surprising.

The other thing is, though, that he, Henry, goddamn it, expresses a point of view that, except for you guys up here, around here, and Lee Hart, I'm getting to the point that I just think that maybe we get pushed around too much.

Now, I had a fellow with him.

This is about a fellow that you and I both wanted, but my old friend Barron's around here with me.

Maybe you've never met him.

Never met him.

He's a hell of a good guy, anyway.

He's a rich Italian who's been a friend of Jimmy Dunn's

and he contributed $100 for the last campaign or something like that, $50 or $100.

He's just that kind of a guy, a hell of a guy.

He came in very emotional.

He had never seen emotion before.

He says, I come to you because of my country.

And he says, I come to you with great sadness.

And he says, because of your embassy.

I said, what's the matter with the embassy?

He says, you have not had it.

He said, no, I'm not going to go into that.

And he talked about acting, for example.

He said, biologically, when he saw a problem, he immediately saw the difficulty in solving it.

So he was totally inadequate for the position.

And I said, what's the matter with Mr. Martin?

He said, I have to be candid.

He said, I've been exhausted.

But he's an old man, not in years, but in spirit.

And he said, he has no contacts with anybody with some of the highest levels of government.

He has not.

And we needed a shining, vigorous, vital person.

And I said, well, what about, what about a fellow like Tosca?

And he said, we cannot send a little American there.

He said, we need, he mentioned Hiller.

You need to call that kill, somebody that's actually killed somebody on a camping or something else.

But I do think that we need a more vigorous man, you know, a guy that is on time, a guy that will take care of them.

I don't know who it is.

But what I was trying to say, what I'm really talking about, is of course the trouble with most of the State Department.

I think it's a really good spender.

He says, oh, man.

They've got their own washed out, Bob.

Martin is on your side, strangely enough, for substance.

But he suffers from the other defect of the State Department, which is low energy.

That's right.

I mean, he's not as loyal, but he has low energy.

I wish, as a member of that department, he had signed God on board with one of these man banks.

But I think that we've got, as I said, there's nothing to do about it now.

But I think in terms of the future, this is why the Malibu operation

We've got to get it.

We've got to look at Henry White.

You all should look at him.

For a young, vital, ballsy, vigorous guy.

I hope they're out, you know, having fun with the girls, raising hell and all that sort of thing.

But I do want that into their masculine club of gods.

I mean, that's our problem in the world.

Well, he won't.

I'm the Secretary of State.

I don't think Grumsfeld would be our guy over there.

Listen, my name is a man.

I don't know whether we ought to consider planning an overture.

I have mixed emotions.

He's extremely valuable here.

But to have one tough, strong, loyal man in the State Department...

the business community, he's helpful to us, but I can't judge him.

He could do a lot of that in the state.

He could do a whole lot of that in the state.

You know what I mean?

He's an economic guy.

He could entertain people over there, Bob.

He could do a lot of that very same thing right there.

Yeah, sure.

Thank you.

It would be terribly helpful to have one guy who is a total, unconditional next man in that building.

I know a friend of yours.

He was working so long.

is in favor of expropriation.

And he's very concerned about economy steal in Europe.

And he thought of not supporting the European community would be a direct opposition to the president's position.

Well, we're not going to put anything openly on it.

We can do something that's behind the scenes.

But on expropriation, the bill is reflected in the whole state of the United States.

We sure as hell can do something.

Unless we become too dangerous to tackle, there's going to be a constant erosion of our international position.

We can say what we want about dollars, but in his period, people were just too afraid to tackle us.

And one of the advantages the Soviets have is anyone who wants to play domestic politics with kicking around a superpower thinks three times before he tackles the Soviets.

to me is to review the products.

First of all, if you can find the dandruff, that's great.

Secondly, we believe in Spain and are considering what they do, what they're saying, what they do.

You might hear the name of the Hill's fat.

It is fat.

It's good.

We do not want to want to get my players to come in there and start overdoing it.

But he won't know his ass in the first place about what to do with his man.

He'll lean right, but he won't know.

He won't be skilled enough to get old.

Sure, sure, sure.

He wants to get along with the kids.

The other thing I was going to say is, I think the way we've gotten the fallout, the way they handled it in China, it was very clever.

I would just say, how we handled it right now is what the press conference is going to do it.

And they know it's been coming.

Well, the funny thing is we cut three rides out of it.

We announced at the end of April that we were lifting restricts.

Then you announced at the press conference that the lift was going to come.

And the lift came.

Actually, the important announcement was in April, but we cut three rides out of it.

It's probably late on every news day.

Well, it was the lead in all three networks.

Thank you.

I think the idea of giving our guys in the Senate and in the House some way, in other words, a chance to reiterate our mentors.

And if at the rest of the week we offer this, but take some of it out.

In other words, don't end up too long.

So we can take out all the qualifications.

We can just say the program is ceasefire.

We offer this.

International contract.

And then you even put it at a date to be negotiated or something like that.

Add one little, so that it's just a little bit of, you know, refurbishment.

But Cooper's weak.

We have Cooper.

Oh, he came into my office after you were through with him, and he, in that screwed-up way of his, told me again that he had no idea.

He'd never voted.

Well, anyway, just remember what Cirelli said about Martin.

He says, he says, you know, we have, we have, he says, there are three different kinds of people.

He says that the Anglos, the basically, the Anglo-Saxons and Europeans, he says, he says, when that group is ruled, he says, then there are the Russians, when that rule, why?

He says, well, why all the time?

And then the Oriental, so that's, it's both, you can either, but it's, you know, it's,

He says, we Latins are a mix of other, of all, you see.

Therefore, you've got to deal with as many people as you can.

You should have to deal with somebody from truth as a rule, or lies as a rule, or faith as the other rule.

Then you've got to figure out which is which.

I know that he's just like Rosie.

Most of the time, he's like, keep your ears open.

Russians are liars.

Yeah.

And Africans are liars.

Well, we'll find out which are liars.

Well, what's interesting in this, is these party speeches that are going on this week.

Kosygin gave a fairly tough speech.

Podgorni made a much softer one in which he specifically praised the soldier.

Now Podgorni has just replaced Kosygin one notch in the hierarchy.

Kosygin has gone down one and Podgorni has gone up one.

So it's possible that Kosygin is trying to use the hardliners

You know, it's an issue, you know, that, uh, Perseverance, uh, McCartney was the one who was in Paris.

Yes, yeah.

He certainly has to marry the person.

But, uh, Perseverance, I know his name, but don't you notice how much he's paid?

Well, you have, you've had a rough life, but you, you have made your way under solid.

That's right.

I haven't slung anybody yet.

Well, good luck.

I want you to establish with him the same kind of relationship you have with

Oh, yeah.

And then you fellows, Bob, you and Henry, frankly, figure out, you and Henry and John Irvin, I think you ought to sit together and decide where Flanagan is needed.

Flanagan cannot decide this.

And if he's needed, then stay here.

Nixon, Haldeman & Sanchez on State Department and Foreign Policy

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 11, 1971

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