Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 517-022
Date: Friday, June 11, 1971 at 2:40 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Sanchez, Manolo; Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/517-022

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:24] Sir, I need another speech, too.
[1:33] Because of the boat being on the stand, they thought maybe we could get her to come and do it on Tuesday and have some effect.
[1:44] But it's going to have to see how it works or what's going on.
[1:49] I'm going to say, I didn't just want to say that.
[2:08] And for you also, I want you to find some time in your schedule whenever you can.
[2:29] He's up on the across the street.
[2:30] Sometimes you ought to walk over there.
[2:32] Oh, I do.
[2:32] I always meet him in his office.
[2:33] What I'm getting at is, do it again.
[2:34] He's flyable.
[2:34] I like him.
[2:34] His reactions are excellent.
[2:35] And also, you've got to think about him.
[2:42] the little inkling of freedom of the China thing?
[2:47] Yes.
[2:47] You could tell a great deal, but I would say on that, you could say that it would blow the whole goddamn thing in the bureaucracy.
[3:01] That is, you could give him just an inkling, that's right.
[3:04] And I think you can, but you could say that the way I would present it to him is to say, well, the president's very close to ya-ya.
[3:07] For over a year, he has been exploring the ya-ya, the possibility of
[3:09] of, uh, you know, of, uh, the whole kind of man-to-man industry.
[3:14] So, yeah, it's a level that would be very surprising.
[3:21] The other thing is, though, that he, Henry, goddamn it, expresses a point of view that, except for you guys up here, around here, and Lee Hart, I'm getting to the point that I just think that maybe we get pushed around too much.
[3:41] Now, I had a fellow with him.
[3:43] This is about a fellow that you and I both wanted, but my old friend Barron's around here with me.
[3:45] Maybe you've never met him.
[3:47] Never met him.
[3:47] He's a hell of a good guy, anyway.
[3:49] He's a rich Italian who's been a friend of Jimmy Dunn's
[3:50] and he contributed $100 for the last campaign or something like that, $50 or $100.
[4:09] He's just that kind of a guy, a hell of a guy.
[4:10] He came in very emotional.
[4:12] He had never seen emotion before.
[4:13] He says, I come to you because of my country.
[4:14] And he says, I come to you with great sadness.
[4:15] And he says, because of your embassy.
[4:17] I said, what's the matter with the embassy?
[4:17] He says, you have not had it.
[4:19] He said, no, I'm not going to go into that.
[4:38] And he talked about acting, for example.
[4:38] He said, biologically, when he saw a problem, he immediately saw the difficulty in solving it.
[4:40] So he was totally inadequate for the position.
[4:41] And I said, what's the matter with Mr. Martin?
[4:42] He said, I have to be candid.
[4:43] He said, I've been exhausted.
[4:43] But he's an old man, not in years, but in spirit.
[4:45] And he said, he has no contacts with anybody with some of the highest levels of government.
[5:03] He has not.
[5:04] And we needed a shining, vigorous, vital person.
[5:06] And I said, well, what about, what about a fellow like Tosca?
[5:07] And he said, we cannot send a little American there.
[5:08] He said, we need, he mentioned Hiller.
[5:10] You need to call that kill, somebody that's actually killed somebody on a camping or something else.
[5:22] But I do think that we need a more vigorous man, you know, a guy that is on time, a guy that will take care of them.
[5:28] I don't know who it is.
[5:29] But what I was trying to say, what I'm really talking about, is of course the trouble with most of the State Department.
[5:35] I think it's a really good spender.
[5:36] He says, oh, man.
[5:42] They've got their own washed out, Bob.
[5:44] Martin is on your side, strangely enough, for substance.
[5:48] But he suffers from the other defect of the State Department, which is low energy.
[5:52] That's right.
[5:53] I mean, he's not as loyal, but he has low energy.
[5:56] I wish, as a member of that department, he had signed God on board with one of these man banks.
[6:04] But I think that we've got, as I said, there's nothing to do about it now.
[6:09] But I think in terms of the future, this is why the Malibu operation
[6:13] We've got to get it.
[6:14] We've got to look at Henry White.
[6:18] You all should look at him.
[6:21] For a young, vital, ballsy, vigorous guy.
[6:22] I hope they're out, you know, having fun with the girls, raising hell and all that sort of thing.
[6:27] But I do want that into their masculine club of gods.
[6:30] I mean, that's our problem in the world.
[6:41] Well, he won't.
[6:46] I'm the Secretary of State.
[7:10] I don't think Grumsfeld would be our guy over there.
[7:17] Listen, my name is a man.
[7:23] I don't know whether we ought to consider planning an overture.
[7:26] I have mixed emotions.
[7:28] He's extremely valuable here.
[7:28] But to have one tough, strong, loyal man in the State Department...
[7:44] the business community, he's helpful to us, but I can't judge him.
[7:50] He could do a lot of that in the state.
[7:55] He could do a whole lot of that in the state.
[8:01] You know what I mean?
[8:02] He's an economic guy.
[8:02] He could entertain people over there, Bob.
[8:04] He could do a lot of that very same thing right there.
[8:05] Yeah, sure.
[8:06] Thank you.
[8:06] It would be terribly helpful to have one guy who is a total, unconditional next man in that building.
[8:11] I know a friend of yours.
[8:12] He was working so long.
[8:27] is in favor of expropriation.
[8:36] And he's very concerned about economy steal in Europe.
[8:42] And he thought of not supporting the European community would be a direct opposition to the president's position.
[8:45] Well, we're not going to put anything openly on it.
[8:47] We can do something that's behind the scenes.
[8:49] But on expropriation, the bill is reflected in the whole state of the United States.
[8:51] We sure as hell can do something.
[9:00] Unless we become too dangerous to tackle, there's going to be a constant erosion of our international position.
[9:06] We can say what we want about dollars, but in his period, people were just too afraid to tackle us.
[9:14] And one of the advantages the Soviets have is anyone who wants to play domestic politics with kicking around a superpower thinks three times before he tackles the Soviets.
[9:40] to me is to review the products.
[10:00] First of all, if you can find the dandruff, that's great.
[10:01] Secondly, we believe in Spain and are considering what they do, what they're saying, what they do.
[10:03] You might hear the name of the Hill's fat.
[10:04] It is fat.
[10:04] It's good.
[10:04] We do not want to want to get my players to come in there and start overdoing it.
[10:13] But he won't know his ass in the first place about what to do with his man.
[10:20] He'll lean right, but he won't know.
[10:21] He won't be skilled enough to get old.
[10:39] Sure, sure, sure.
[10:54] He wants to get along with the kids.
[11:00] The other thing I was going to say is, I think the way we've gotten the fallout, the way they handled it in China, it was very clever.
[11:03] I would just say, how we handled it right now is what the press conference is going to do it.
[11:05] And they know it's been coming.
[11:08] Well, the funny thing is we cut three rides out of it.
[11:12] We announced at the end of April that we were lifting restricts.
[11:16] Then you announced at the press conference that the lift was going to come.
[11:20] And the lift came.
[11:21] Actually, the important announcement was in April, but we cut three rides out of it.
[11:30] It's probably late on every news day.
[11:33] Well, it was the lead in all three networks.
[11:42] Thank you.
[12:09] I think the idea of giving our guys in the Senate and in the House some way, in other words, a chance to reiterate our mentors.
[12:29] And if at the rest of the week we offer this, but take some of it out.
[12:39] In other words, don't end up too long.
[12:43] So we can take out all the qualifications.
[12:46] We can just say the program is ceasefire.
[12:46] We offer this.
[12:47] International contract.
[12:47] And then you even put it at a date to be negotiated or something like that.
[12:53] Add one little, so that it's just a little bit of, you know, refurbishment.
[12:56] But Cooper's weak.
[12:56] We have Cooper.
[12:57] Oh, he came into my office after you were through with him, and he, in that screwed-up way of his, told me again that he had no idea.
[13:09] He'd never voted.
[13:34] Well, anyway, just remember what Cirelli said about Martin.
[14:11] He says, he says, you know, we have, we have, he says, there are three different kinds of people.
[14:29] He says that the Anglos, the basically, the Anglo-Saxons and Europeans, he says, he says, when that group is ruled, he says, then there are the Russians, when that rule, why?
[14:37] He says, well, why all the time?
[14:38] And then the Oriental, so that's, it's both, you can either, but it's, you know, it's,
[14:41] He says, we Latins are a mix of other, of all, you see.
[15:01] Therefore, you've got to deal with as many people as you can.
[15:03] You should have to deal with somebody from truth as a rule, or lies as a rule, or faith as the other rule.
[15:06] Then you've got to figure out which is which.
[15:07] I know that he's just like Rosie.
[15:08] Most of the time, he's like, keep your ears open.
[15:09] Russians are liars.
[15:09] Yeah.
[15:09] And Africans are liars.
[15:10] Well, we'll find out which are liars.
[15:13] Well, what's interesting in this, is these party speeches that are going on this week.
[15:22] Kosygin gave a fairly tough speech.
[15:25] Podgorni made a much softer one in which he specifically praised the soldier.
[15:30] Now Podgorni has just replaced Kosygin one notch in the hierarchy.
[15:35] Kosygin has gone down one and Podgorni has gone up one.
[15:39] So it's possible that Kosygin is trying to use the hardliners
[15:45] You know, it's an issue, you know, that, uh, Perseverance, uh, McCartney was the one who was in Paris.
[15:55] Yes, yeah.
[15:55] He certainly has to marry the person.
[15:57] But, uh, Perseverance, I know his name, but don't you notice how much he's paid?
[16:18] Well, you have, you've had a rough life, but you, you have made your way under solid.
[16:42] That's right.
[16:43] I haven't slung anybody yet.
[16:45] Well, good luck.
[16:45] I want you to establish with him the same kind of relationship you have with
[16:51] Oh, yeah.
[16:53] And then you fellows, Bob, you and Henry, frankly, figure out, you and Henry and John Irvin, I think you ought to sit together and decide where Flanagan is needed.
[17:05] Flanagan cannot decide this.
[17:07] And if he's needed, then stay here.