On June 12, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Tricia Nixon Cox, Rex W. Scouten, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:50 am and 1:41 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 518-008 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Now, you get reps in the phone now, right?
Tell them about that possibility, how long you can pull.
You see, they come in the east gate anyway.
Now, instead of having them pulled around in the Rose Garden, we'll have them all just use the entire first floor, you see?
I mean, the vice is ground floor.
And they can move around the Bermuda Room and all those rooms.
Don't tell them if you don't move it in.
You just wait with the rain boots.
In other words, delay the wedding 30 minutes.
The rain will never be longer than 30 minutes.
In other words, it's a very light in the mean years.
I mean, it's like it is now, isn't it?
So, I do.
I've got, well, it's a drop or two is all.
But my point is that you're, I think you've got a 70% chance, even a 60% chance, that it will be a lot like it is now, which is great.
Great for the pictures and everything.
If, on the other hand,
It could have a thundershower at 3 o'clock.
At that time, just delay it for 30 minutes, like you'd delay a ball game.
See?
And it's a perfect way because the guests can all be inside.
And, of course, the wedding part is all inside.
And then just as soon as it clears, wham, off we go.
But I ground it.
Yes.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Have it outside.
Have it outside.
It's headset.
Wait.
It's an historical first.
It should be outside.
It rains.
Everybody's going to remember it rains.
It's going to be great to have it outside.
Okay, son.
Bye.
Bye.
You all right?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay, sweetie.
That's a good idea.
Well, she said it's an historical first, and she's absolutely right.
God damn it, you put it inside, and we let the rain get it down.
Everybody said, what is it inside?
It's tall.
God damn it, see it through.
See it through.
That's good.
And I would like cautious people in it.
Cautious people.
I see what you have, Archie.
That's the trouble with this military state department and all the rest of them.
Rex is back out there now, so he must be working on the outside plan.
It also... That's Rex.
It doesn't make any difference if you delay an hour.
We can delay an hour, no problem.
A thunderstorm is not going to last longer than an hour, right?
I think that one's not going to last over ten minutes.
This could be a thunderstorm, you know.
I think if...
There's a little bit of rain to help with them.
They don't care if they leave their gowns a little wet.
Well, we can move them underneath, and we'll have plastic to put over the chairs so when they come back, they'll be dry.
I think... Well, the main thing is, I think you ought to change the plan so you do not ever put them in an East Garden.
I guess put them right in the inside hall.
Can you do that?
No.
Sure.
What?
There's a hall that opens right on the East Garden, and they can go right into that hall and fill in, into the grid, into the hall, down to the Diplomatic Center.
I'm just gonna have to play it by ear.
I mean, right, if it looks bad, we don't seat right at 3.30.
We delay the seating we get.
Right, until it stops running.
And if that's 4 o'clock or 4.30, so you run it late?
I don't even, the only reason I would change my mind is if it's about 3, we start getting clouds of thunder or something, which is not forecast.
I mean, if it's something like that, we shouldn't.
The way inside is the best way we can do it.
Can you move much?
We could not move this structure, but we could move everything else.
We had a prayer bench, and now we just have to go without the gazebo.
Well, I can't reach it.
At Easter, the gazebo isn't going to make that much difference anyway.
Well, the prayer bench is going to remain in there.
Yeah, the prayer bench.
Not use the gazebo at Easter.
No, that would take us at least an hour to move it in and decorate it.
You could move it in.
No.
Let her go.
We've got a block.
There's a 12-20 now.
When do they get started, right?
3.50.
3.50.
3.50.
No, I think...
I think you've got it.
I think it's going to get these huge sprinkles.
And people get a little damp.
They'll sit on it for a while.
It's not going to be that much nicer on the guy.
Oh, well, you're saying it's a warranty.
At least it's going to be in the contract.
Even if they get wet.
That's right.
It's going to be hard.
It's going to be difficult.
It could be.
This is a really valuable because everybody else is uptight.
That's the right way to do it.
From what I hear, yes.
I know.
But from all I can pick up, in any direction, she's done a hell of a good job with the wedding stuff.
I don't know what the man thinks, and as soon as this is over, that's the next thing.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Men are in business suits and the ladies are in short dresses, you know, regular.
It's not as if you're in Hawaii or anything.
In Hawaii, you go out and it rains almost any time for an effect.
Always.
And if you're out and it starts pouring, you just get wet.
And then you keep on going and you get dry.
Story today.
Sorry, last night, the, uh, Eddie's, uh, he's got a, I mean, his mother's side, he's got, they have two little kids.
You know, you think about the long hair thing.
Hell, half of that crowd had hair carried out of their shoulders.
Really?
It's the style, Bob.
It is.
It is.
It's the style.
And they weren't, uh, some of them are radicals and some of them are not.
You know what I mean?
It just, I mean, here's what they are.
They're radicals.
This style these days is for kids to show them, oh my God, they're going to be different.
They're going to wear their hair long.
That's the way to do it.
And I don't worry about it.
As a matter of fact, some of them look fine if they have a fixed problem.
You'll notice one of the ushers here in Christ has got that hair straight down to his shoulders.
He'd look a lot better with it not down to his shoulders.
And I don't know how the hell...
I was just delighted.
They said, you cut your hair, you don't work.
And he wouldn't cut his hair, so he didn't get the job.
So he had to work as a dishwasher in a
cafeteria.
Instead of working, what he wanted to do was work out on the slopes, which is much more fun.
But he stood by his hair.
That's the big problem now, is the girl likes it long, and she said if he cut his hair, she'd crop it.
There's a law that he used to have quite a long hair.
longer than, not this long.
These guys, they're down, you know, below their shoulders.
They, it's, you know, besides his kids, when they came to the, what else, I could see a portion of them, I just said, Jesus Christ, clear your mind.
Because John is this mark of, you know, an old age guy.
Oh, really, John?
I'm a poor guy.
I'm so sorry for all these kids, you know.
They feel more connection.
They were, they were not without their shoulders.
They were,
But that would bother me.
That's, you know, if they have to wear hippie clothes and mine was dirty clothes and they were on drugs, I could tell.
They were bad.
Dirty and the drugs and their hair fuzzed out and that kind of thing that ratted you.
So at least, no way were you going to be goddamn quavers on the way out, for example.
And I didn't, sure wish we could.
Goddamn, because anybody, now there was one thing where I don't think we had a good enough staff, if I may say so, on the press side.
And when we got some long-haired son of a bitch that could go out there with a press card and say,
I'm just doing a little interview on how long have you been in the friends meeting and so forth and so on.
You'll find out some interesting stuff.
There's a hell of a lot of these people, Bob, that are new Quakers.
Yeah, I'm making it up.
How about it?
I don't believe in the Quakers being a haven for draft debate.
And any Quaker's got a perfect right to keep out of the war because you've been born that way.
They should have joined the Quaker church in order to avoid the war, right?
To avoid military service.
I'm sick of those crooks.
We're out on the work honors.
But here's where we go to have a couple of long hairs.
Can I suggest that's one mistake we may be making?
Do we have three or four guys hiring long-haired, dirty-looking bastards, you know, and, you know, telling them, look, we do this.
As a matter of fact, nobody knows what we do.
We've got a couple guys out that are...
I think actually,
Actually, I'd like to see on our, this is a very, very, I think I'd love to see a group of long hairs for Nixon and beards for Nixon.
You ever see my point?
Of course, why not?
Let's get a few of those, you know what I mean?
Let a few of them come around.
Join in our subjects.
There are a few, you know.
Sure, there are a lot of them.
I saw some in Florence and some down in Florence.
Well, there are a lot of them.
The long-haired thing does not prove that the kid is a dope fiend.
The whole conservative group that my son's in there, they have just as long hair as the little ones do, and the conservatives are strongly proven innocent.
That's their whole debate is very defending the administration and their balls out.
What do you think of the Rogers?
I just think of this, that I...
You know, I know that it's difficult and everything, but we cannot allow this nervous foreign policy watch to be as perverted because of this picking of this goddamn person.
We weren't doing anything.
We were just kind of ghosting along and, you know, maintaining ourselves.
I just don't know.
I just think he's a...
works hard, but he just must, I think he must sit up and I think, how the hell is he going to look good?
And I'm just, it's awful.
I swear to Christ.
He doesn't even have to sit up and think about it.
It's what basically motivates him.
It isn't a thing.
He doesn't have to step back and think.
It just automatically is there.
The way he goes at things.
He was, I'm sure, better than any other way to come through.
He said, well, maybe we really don't have it inside, so are you sure?
I said, we're in a conversation, because I think you're backing up something that makes a hell of a difference to her, and a hell of a lot of people across your department, university, and, of course, Cambridge is the worst accessible country.
It's worse than Kell.
At Kell, at least you've got some students that are on the right.
You ain't got any department.
Not really.
She is going to have a tough time.
And she's able to deal with it.
Well, it's going to be hard.
I told her, I said, don't have anything to do with any of them.
Treat them all respectfully, but have nothing to do with them.
And don't ask for their approval of the rest.
And it's going to get to us.
It's a goddamn place.
I have such little respect for her.
It could be a charade.
I'm sorry.
Well, I just want to be sure.
You know, Henry, he's a fiddle on this, too.
He comes in one day and says, we must put these people to the sword.
The next day he says, speak of the 50th anniversary of the Council of Foreign Relations.
That's a hell of a way to put them to the sword, isn't it?
Well, you might win some of them.
There's some way to get bullshit.
The ones that are there with us, they'll be with us.
We've got to go into the border.
Do you have indicators?
No, I will not give indicators.
True.
They want to get the higher education.
School administrators, the president of the University of Illinois, the president of the University of Connecticut, all of those are fine.
But the lead figure, and it is the president of the NEA.
No, I won't sue you.
And she, it's a woman, Mrs. Bain.
I won't sue you.
The argument is that they have a national convention coming up and they're making the pitch that you have such a disregard for education that you won't listen.
And that you should be with her and a small hand-picked group of educators to eliminate the criticism.
Every state chairman of NEA signed a letter requesting that you see Mrs. Vane.
She's against us on everything, including revenue sharing.
She wants to meet the president as a matter of prestige as the leader of the largest professional organization.
She does not want to come to the desk.
So we as a government, we're up in the market.
They say we're uncomfortable with the idea of the President meeting with her alone, and to accommodate that concern, they've worked out pulling this group together who are supporters of educational residency sharing, and not opposed to the President's approach, and kind of wrap them around her, and then she can't go out.
It may not be a bad idea if we have to do it at all.
It's just a very good idea.
Just tell everyone that I have taken this advice on every occasion, and on every occasion it's proven wrong, but I'll do it if he says so.
But put the heat right on him.
Do you remember the groups you've been seeing, Bob?
Yeah, I mean, they piss on us.
Of course, this is a more constructive...
They're not asking anything.
They bring in the board of the NEA.
They're clubbing this one thing, and we're surrounded by a batch of people that are with us.
Let's talk about revenue sharing.
Discuss education for a few minutes.
Yeah, well, I'm so sick of education, believe me.
Incidentally, I can't tell you how strongly I want you to follow up fast on McGinney.
I have an intuition about that.
He called me, Tim, yesterday.
Oh, he did?
To say that he had mentioned to somebody, talking to somebody on my call, and that somebody had told the paper, and the paper had called and said, could they tell him that I had called him?
And I said, of course.
Yeah, good.
Did you find a way to circulate it yet?
Have you got any reactions yet?
No, I just sent it out yesterday.
Good.
I might just send it to about 100,000 people.
I can get a reprint.
I think you oughta, why don't you do this?
Why don't you get, okay.
Let's get some outstanding person who, to reprint it and send it to 100,000 people, you know what I mean?
Let's make this guy famous.
Who could that be?
Some friend of mine, somebody associated with me.
Tell it to him, what is it?
No, we do not.
No, we do not.
Maybe some Cole Bluess or, you know, Bob Adenal.
That's the kind of thing.
Bob Adenal, yeah.
He's never done anything like that.
He's a square, middle American type guy who made it.
Yeah, that's right.
That's got Bob Adenal to it.
And it's not really hitting the list.
I left the idea to get in the West Coast.
Speech up to Hughes.
I don't think they understood really what I meant.
Now, we've been shipping that around.
They're doing it through their service magazines and the rest.
That's another way to get it done.
They're also getting the man who got the mail.
They're individual guys, OCS guys, down.
They're doing the mail plus the magazine contracts.
They're following all these things.
They're women running it.
And yet, you've got to have them.
They are so jealous.
These women, you know, they don't want brothers around them.
You know, this is a, if you look at the hundreds of thousands of dollars that are being invested in television coverage, I was saying, it's terribly important for someone who knows something about it to be getting that done directly.
What I meant is that I'm just simply making the case that if I were in the show, I wouldn't have any will to run anything.
I really wouldn't.
I just don't think, I think there are two non-stakeholders.
We have gone one step too far, and I guess, unless you can turn it off, I want you to do it.
It's the kind of thing that I've got to keep emphasizing the fact that we are at one of them.
I met that Mrs. Spain in here.
We had a picture taken.
I mentioned the fact at that time that she was getting disappointed in the Civil Service Commission.
She was another, now they're ringing in and swear her in.
I mean, isn't that gilding them too much?
Or is it not?
It was a quick throw-in ceremony.
I just sort of feel sometimes that
I agree with half the voters or something.
It's pure.
Do you think they care?
Yep.
All right.
I do.
I just, I see this case for the good process as more of a way to win.
It's a way to humble women, I think.
It's an interesting thing they were saying.
I don't know if you saw the thing in the news center, but somebody pointed out that there's a very interesting thing, the appeal of weddings.
There's a TV series, Father Knows Best, or something like that.
It's been a good series.
In one episode of it, one of the kids got married, and they did the wedding as part of the thing.
It had, by almost double, the biggest audience that any program in the series had ever had.
And then there was another series called something else that got into the same thing, and it, when it got to the wedding, it went way up.
The point is, people, and especially women, have a very strong emotional interest in weddings, wedding ceremonies, and just the idea of a wedding is a very big thing, and that this
the focus on this wedding because that is going to be enormous.
Now, they've sold CDS.
We checked it out.
They got an hour special.
They had an hour special last night.
How was it?
Was it all right?
I didn't see it.
I don't know.
On the wedding?
An hour?
Yeah.
What the hell are they talking about?
I have any idea.
They're getting ready for the wedding.
From 10 to 11 last night, and tonight they're having an hour special from 6 to 7, which is the earliest, you know, that's the soonest they can put it on the air.
They sold spots in those, and their total revenue from, they sold six commercial spots in each of those hours.
Their total revenue from that is $350,000.
Income.
That's a lot.
That's a lot.
They're selling spots.
That's not program sponsorship.
That's just a lot.
Oh, I see.
And then their cost.
on this, they figure it's about $100,000.
Oh, so they make money.
So they're making 250,000 bucks, a quarter of a million bucks on their coverage of this sermon.
Now that isn't being really true, because they would have made money on selling that time anyway.
Would they advertise birth control pills?
No.
No, I think it's Gulf Oil.
It's one of those institutional sponsors, news event sponsors.
Gulf Oil is a great one.
There's a Gulf Oil, there's Xerox, there's somebody, you know, there's Xerox.
There are a number of people that are
I don't know.
You know, we were looking at the polls, and apparently how they got the judge.
The only thing that got the judge about it, you know, after he got through his troubles, was that one bullet in the side.
His wedding didn't have any effect on him.
None.
I don't think, that's why I don't think the wedding has any effect on him.
You're told.
Probably won't.
But I think it, I think what it may have, in our case where it didn't have any consequences,
I don't think that Johnson ever came through because he just was so heavy-handed.
And she, of course, was a little heavy-handed.
Lady Bird, she's a tough lady.
That's right.
And she came through that way.
Do you think so?
That's why they had her out probably very much so.
You know, to see her, she always had an ugly blend there, huh?
Very hard and cold.
Pat's got away with it.
She's tough, but she didn't have next to her.
Pat doesn't look tough.
He looks like a nice person.
She really does.
And down to earth, you know.
You know, the things that she made here, she has several changes in her courage.
Aware of what death is before you accept one another.
Love is to appreciate and cherish our beloved as a unique person, deep, extraordinary, exceptional.
It is to visualize him or her as an equal,
complimenting individual.
Love each other, but do not make a bond with your love.
That's the significant line.
I mean, these guys don't pick that up.
No bonds in that.
No, she kept it up.
Stand together, but not too near together.
Just as the pillars of the temple stand apart, but stand together.
There's a basic line in Christian science on marriage, which is that home is the center, but not the boundary of affection.
Which is, in essence, saying that same thing.
His prayer is, Mrs. Parker, I have mine.
The prayer she wrote, send my wonderful blessings upon the Christian everyone that they may, did you read this yet?
No.
That they may surely perform and keep the covenant made between us.
May their hearts be one in pure love and delicacy.
May they be a blessing and a comfort to each other and to everyone else they touch.
May they be sharers of each other's joy and comforts from each other's sorrow.
May they be helpers to each other and all.
May they ever remain in perfect harmony together with an accordion.
May they be upon them.
they may love, honor, and cherish one another, and so live together in faithfulness and in patience, in wisdom and true kindness, that all may be a haven of happiness and a place of serenity.
And as the beginning of a new day and the evening of their lives together, may they be able to look back and say, I'll spend it today instead.
The last time I had it, I cheated on her.
I bet a lot of people use that in the way to close their weddings from now on, don't you think?
It's really beautiful, and I told several thousand of my friends.
It's wonderful.
The whole show does have this in it.
Yeah.
I think, actually, somebody ought to get a copy.
A lot of those reconnected.
And for all those who have written about it, I'd like the mail office to send them a copy of that, of the wedding ceremony.
What do you think?
I think that's wonderful.
Now, this is the thing.
When you check the seat, they must have had several thousand letters about the time of the wedding, and they're likely to get several thousand more afterwards.
We can do it at night.
This is pretty expensive.
Is it that expensive?
But we can do it.
For just general meaning, I don't think you need to do it quite when they need it.
Why don't you see if it isn't too much?
I suppose that may be expensive.
But why not?
A copy of the wedding program or the wedding ceremony.
You're very interesting, Bob, for the purpose of answering the letters.
We went over there yesterday, so we spent time.
Russell Baer is from a Washington flower shop in North Carolina.
He hires only handicapped people.
And he shot nine times.
Those little people took pictures.
They had their cameras.
They didn't know we were coming because they all had cameras.
It's been helpful that Patton's at least also been coming to Ziggler.
But he's got to let it roll well.
It's very difficult.
He has to let it roll because he's blue-laced.
He's had to fight every time.
And how does he have to come?
He's a comic beginner.
Yeah, on Ziggler, he knows he's got some comics.
But this thing is going to be quite a bit.
in terms of television.
I mean, we'll see the rain.
They won't see the rain in television when the baseball game is coming down.
And sorry to God, but you don't know it's raining.
You don't know it's raining.
And they'll come down, and it'll look absolutely magnificent.
Don't you think?
Yep.
Outdoors.
Yep.
And it gives much more of the feeling of a White House wedding, having an outdoors in the end.
Because you see the White House.
Inside, it's just another great, big, beautiful room.
So it's the East Room.
So it's a room, right?
Here, you really have a view of the White House.
You just have the pictures, the columns, the... Yeah.
You know what?
It probably may do.
I don't think they'll ever request some of the networks to run again.
Putting it on at 6.30 to 7.30.
Well, they're running at different times.
That's the first one they run.
They run from 8.00 to 10.00.
But I would think that a network, if it had an opportunity, they might run that.
They ran those White House tours and they're on the plate again.
I do love to see it.
You know, it's another thing that's curious.
The enormous audiences for the Miss America contest.
People look at those kind of things.
Our kids look at them.
They don't believe them, but they look at them.
Sure, there's something there.
That's the smalls, which we don't know whether it helps or not, but maybe we've got to use a little of it.
So we did understand our game.
Freddie died.
Yeah.
He died last week.
Oh boy.
And Sunday.
We sent Jay Wilkinson as your personal representative.
And they put him as a, he was, the service was Darryl Royal and Jay Wilkinson.
He was, of course, he's an industry fit.
Yeah.
And they put him in the service as the present representative.
And Jay's going to write you a note, but he called and talked to Dick Moore.
Dick Moore sent this up.
Great representative.
Horrible.
Horrible.
Jay sent it.
And we had a letter for you at this time, our family, that he took with him.
He said taking that out was the most touching experience of his life.
He had run up there the night before the funeral, spent an hour with the family, including 15 minutes alone with the parents.
He said he simply couldn't convey the depth of the impression which the President's gesture made on the parents and all the family.
He noted that the previous letter to Freddie from the President was framed and on the wall in the House.
And they talked at length about the President and his kindness and interest.
And Jay was just, you know, overwhelmed.
But this, and that, you won't, it's in the paper, even in the Washington Post, there's a big sort of stagmark buried in Denver, eulogized as a general boy.
It says that, led by Coach Jarrell and Jay Wilkinson, acting as special envoy for President Nixon.
And your opportunities on those, I guess, was one of the reasons I wanted to upgrade the commendation letter.
I sent you a longer memo than you wanted to put in on the subject.
But you do have, you do have adequate people, that's all I need.
Well, I don't want to know about it.
If I ever get into it, then I'll be wasting my time.
where I should do that, but believe me, what you need is a guy like Jake, that type of person, just like, you know, right?
We're doing the, what we're bringing in, I know it says it, but we're bringing in a guy who is just a real hot dog to replace State Department guy.
And this guy is not a dragon.
This guy won't be able to write eloquent letters.
We're moving him.
He's doing the Bill Hopkins job.
Was he that good?
On a temporary basis, we think he may turn out to be that good for the long haul.
There isn't any question that he is.
He's just a hell of a good man.
All right.
I don't care how good he is.
He's good.
That's a hell of an opportunity.
But you're bringing in a guy.
What kind of guy?
Roland Elliott from
from California, who has won 15 awards, national awards, for his direct mail, and all that sort of stuff.
He understands this.
Ray had originally interviewed him as a speechwriter, because he's a very good writer.
But he is not eloquent in the State Department sense.
He is eloquent in the middle America sense.
He won't be able to write the flowery graph of the Highway Selassie.
Unless he wrote outstanding good stuff to Freddie Seymour.
That's what we need.
What about, and we're expanding the office, and we're dividing it into parts, one to handle routine, and the other to handle opportunity mail.
Opportunity mail, that's right, that's right.
But to get it back to McGinnity, he called, are we, you're going to see, don't let them back push it off Bob.
I'm not sure he should be hired, but I think so.
That son of a gun can write.
And we need that, we need his ideological bent in that writing staff.
We need one guy that's just serving as hell.
I gave his article to the writing staff.
I found your man for you.
And I haven't talked to Ray about it.
Well, Ray's on the side of Ray.
Ray can see that it follows kind of you in any way.
If Ray doesn't want him, put him on some other capacity.
You know, you could put him in the, what's your job?
Coastalist.
That's what I would do.
He's a great guy to play dirty games.
I didn't know that the Colson, I noticed more down in his comments for the effect that the cabin sure was loaded 3-1 against us.
They had Washington tomorrow.
Apparently in all of the, I don't know where the Colson's been working on the cabin.
That's how you see it.
Yeah.
But, uh,
I'm sure we had, that's where we fought, you know, we had the huge fight when we forced one of our guys on once.
Forced them to drop other people.
We had a running war going with Kevin.
That's what you're now referring to, I see.
Well, it's a losing war.
Because it's a losing war.
We don't, we aren't winning on a running war, but we get a, we get a saying, hell, it's an accomplishment to get O'Neill on it at all.
Normally Kevin would have had the other three people.
He loads the audience, though, he puts older guys on, but our guys are good enough to take him.
They hang in there now.
We can't see the only ones to put it.
You don't want to put.
Well, you don't want to put a person, a cabinet officer, a guy whose position is going to be.
Do we have anybody?
Is he just a left winger?
Is that the problem?
I guess so.
Is he Jewish?
I don't know.
Doesn't look it.
NBC is, they're, they're, they're, they're goosey right now.
They just keep goosey.
I mean, I know Cronkite very well as a person.
And there's not the, I think you've got to be, I think the actual approach is,
is running its course, and I think it's trying to line up people against the press that will not any longer work.
And it's the wrong thing to do.
It makes it appear, you know, you don't want a bunch of know-nots.
My approach is very different.
And when we made our point, it was necessary to mention, I'm not sure Colson got even the point.
My approach is different in this way.
I say to them, look, I want my press to be interesting.
I want it to be controversial.
I want you to have opinions.
I want you to differ.
I want you to criticize.
I expect you to.
I know you're going to be lovable.
I know you are.
All I say is that I'm aware.
And you should be aware.
There's nothing you can do about it.
But all we ask is for a fair shake.
You should present the facts as fairly as you can, you know, having in mind the fact that most of those facts are going to be looted.
The point being that you put them on notice that their whole establishment
By very definition, I said, I know when you go to the colleges, you can only find people who are not allowed.
So you've got to hire.
I understand that.
Good.
And that's what gets it when you know, when you take deep into their own business and say, rather than complaining about it, say, well, I see you've got a hell of a problem.
You can't have done anything about it.
You're screwing us, but we're going to defend ourselves.
See, that's the way to do it.
And they don't know what you're going to do.
They really know who deep down on the coast is sitting there who probably will screw them economically.
Or by playing their competitors.
Or by smothering them.
So I think it's the best we can do.
I think it's a great mistake, this business of, I think, of buttering them up.
You know, like as I said, the kind of thing I don't want to get into again is the White House Correspondents.
I mean, they kick you around publicly, and you've got to get up and start a good sport.
And be a good sport.
I think then they lose some respect.
Just an edge.
Just an edge.
I mean, Herb and all the rest, they wasn't that great.
It's got to be that I was such a good sport.
I'm great at all.
I should have been placed in a position where I had to be a good sport.
The best thing with the press is to treat them.
I get away like I do.
They try to grab me up.
If we came out of the thing, I'd talk, talk, talk.
Pat always does.
She can't resist it, so that's fine.
I won't talk to this goddamn press woman.
I'm not going to do it.
Good for you.
I always do it.
Except when you've got something you want to see in life.
I just threw out a line.
I said, well, this is what Mamie and I are going to have.
We're going to do it.
She's the only one we're going to dance with tomorrow night.
Everybody knows she doesn't dance.
So that fixes that.
And we just talked about it a little bit.
Yeah, that was the line.
I was trying to think that too.
I just said, I just talked about it a little bit.
Which is a great, you know, a little light touch.
But you see, if you get in, and one of the reasons I'm in a perfect position to do that is that we've done all, we did the women's press thing this year.
Now, none of them could say, you can always point to that broker for the rest of our time.
But you agree, yeah, we've done fire awards.
We've done her.
So you say, well, we've done that.
What the hell do you want to do now?
But you've got, Tricia's got the right theory.
And it's quite different from Julie's, but each does damn well.
Julie believes in being outgoing, kind, and sweet to everybody.
Julie can't be any other way.
She can't be.
She's such a kind person.
She's such a kind person that she can't do it.
Tricia, on the other hand, believes in mystery.
And that is the point.
With me, this, frankly, I'm more on Tricia's side.
Tricia comes out better than the rest.
I mean, she does keep eating some more.
She really does.
Julie comes through as a, as exactly what she is.
And that's great.
Patricia, sir.
I do not think, I think I told you once the marriage is over,
I don't know.
I'll tell you one thing that will keep it up is that the harder people do something bad.
Hmm.
Could be.
Could be.
Just keep going.
If people were at this wedding, they'd say, you know, good luck to the boy.
And they'll be ceremony.
I'm not going to the visitor.
I'm not going to give it up.
Boy, you should.
You can.
You can.
I'm going to go.
I said, where?
I told them, the Eastern schools have had it.
They did not.
I mean they had it.
And we've got to, that's why Malachi's got to get out and not just, he is, and feed Peterson more names.
Peterson comes in always with Eastern names.
We've got to get out to the west and the far west and not get the softies out on the west.
There are a goddamn lot of softies in San Francisco, in Los Angeles, Minneapolis, a few even in Chicago.
But also there are a lot of good, square Americans out there by, well, frankly, people like them off Avalon, a little smoother than he is.
But there are a lot of guys that have made a hundred million bucks
Right?
Or 10 million bucks.
Right?
And God damn it, that's the kind we want.
For what money?
I mean, maybe they don't think it's made enough that he just, a lot of us guys don't care.
Malik is a prime example.
He just made a million bucks, now he's proving he can make money.
He doesn't give a damn about making money.
What the hell are you going to do with it anymore?
But I don't know.
So I told you in New York, when I was making that firm and they came together, the goddamn senior partners at our department, they had this bunch of that, and they did it here.
So I'm going to get $175,000 this year, $2,000, $200,000, $2.25.
What the Christ is this?
They're not going to see me lose such a big percentage of it.
I didn't care.
I didn't really care.
Actually, I mean, you've got to get money.
I mean, you can do a few more things.
You can only have $10,000 or $10,000, a little more than the rest.
But so, so you make $100,000.
You get along with $100,000, right?
So you make $10,000.
That's harder.
$10,000 is harder, but you can do that too.
I'm just going to say, I'm just a little under that.
It's hard.
I could do a little better with a little more, but you get to about 59, I figure that's about all I'm short on.
At this stage, I'm at my worst stage now with all the poor kids in private schools.
When you get past that, then when we get our kids out of them, then I think 25 is ample.
Yeah, you have no problem getting there in 25 minutes.
You see, the only thing there is, the only part it isn't ample, is if you go on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on
Oh, I've never been to those places ever again.
I don't know.
I never did.
I've done it once, see.
That's a great comfort.
I don't desire to go to Korea once again.
I've been to Korea once.
I know, but what the Christ is the difference, Bob?
The problem with my case is I have been exposed to the virus.
So you can't avoid it.
Maybe once a year.
But that's it.
Some people just have to do that all the time.
Yeah.
I can joke like this.
She can't be here for dinner once in a while.
It's a good, awfully good, very personal.
We go, when we lived out there, we went two, three times a year, and that was funny.
But I'd rather go to a hamburger place, get a bag full of hamburgers, or sit out in a tree, sit outside and eat.
We made the right decision here.
Look, the goddamn rain comes.
It comes, it comes.
But this, as Christian says, nobody's ever had it outside before.
So we got it outside.
We'll wait two hours if necessary.
Right?
One of the networks don't have to get it on.
Shit, they'll put it on tomorrow night.
You know, if you realize that.
Sure.
They'll still put it on.
I wouldn't worry about it.
That makes it an adventure.
They made a story out of the decision.
It's not a shit point out there.
I called Trish in the fall.
We talked to her ex-scout.
And she said, well, it's historic.
And I said, don't listen to the cautious ones.
I said, just remember.
Your brains will remember even more.
Otherwise, it's just another beautiful world.
And she, you know, that's, he's the one doing it.
Is that that wavy area?
Man, that's great.
See, there's the pilots doing it.
Isn't that great?
He's using our shops, he's using our people, and he's using our people.
Listen, but he's, he's a direct, he's an absolute genius.
He's Walter Henry's decorator as well.
Oh, doesn't he?
Years ago, Walter Henry got a fabulous party in the market, and he came back to Latin America, and most people partied with him.
White tie, and everything done.
Which is great.
And then the French, that's just, that's the one idea that really got Christian, and just for the idea of letting him tell lies.
Because we didn't really get out of that.
That was one of the great parties of all time.
I don't know.
We barely screwed up.
It's our fault.
Maybe the British were tough.
It was partly the British, partly us.
And we were partly because we get screwed anyway in most settings.
But my God, that was a beautiful party.
That was a beautiful party.
It got a tremendous play, but it didn't reach its potential.
It didn't get the plus.
This is
It is.
But with great, just exactly the way it should be.
I'd be confident that it treats potential with far greater, with far greater effect than Johnson.
We really haven't, they haven't banged me about it.
They've banged Johnson about the way they make it.
There's a better thing.
They haven't even banged us about the cost much of it.
The cost, of course, is a factor.
It's a value.
Can I ask about, does anybody question whether I've got that much money?
No.
But, you know, there was a nice thing there with the effect.
I think there's certain California champagne there.
I don't know.
White and red.
And I think also they decided not to have certain, some kind of order.
They were too expensive.
That's good.
But that could be more right.
People don't care.
They like to see you being a little careful on the thing like that.
I'm sure they aren't having a cat yard, for example.
Why should they have a cat yard?
You should.
Very few people are.
That's right.
And those who do, there's some who like it and some who don't.
And those who do, there's no point in
You don't have to serve it at something like this.
People stand around and gulp a lot of it probably.
You just have to taste it in a pan and it's just good.
Oh, they have fritos.
Fritos with a tip.
Fritos with a...
I love alcohol with a tip.
Well, that's really true.
They really don't.
They really don't.
Nobody, nobody, I'll guarantee you, nobody will go away from here and a week later say, wasn't that delicious food we had at Trish's wedding?
Right.
Only about 20 of them will notice, you know, the good champagne
You'll serve good champagne, but it won't be the best.
So this is the California champagne.
I hate champagne.
I don't.
I never.
They serve it all the time.
I don't drink the toasted champagne.
I drink the red wine.
If I see somebody serve, I just stop right away.
Everybody else serves.
I just don't like it.
So I never drink it.
I drink a little white wine.
I drink the red wine.
But it has to be that gold, not the red line.
So that's one of my huge preferences.
And time for that next.
Sure, just wait.
Get that.
If you're going to put something in Dan's stomach, you might as well.
Get yourself some good Cuban cigars.
You know, it's too minty.
Yeah.
Probably don't get those very much.
For what little you're in those, that's good.
What's his name?
That's going to be it.
Of course, that's not a problem, though.
You see, we're not just cigars.
We brought in their friends, and I don't know what kind they are.
You see, Bob, they perfectly chip in the ass on you.
Right about the stage that they are made in order to really bamboozle Bill, because they're ass-kissers and prades and psychopters, and they come up that way, and Bill gets an assie.
He does not see us.
He will not see us.
One of the problems in this case, if he ever run for office and walks as I have, he would not be a sign for me.
You know, but they ask us.
You don't know.
Did you see how phony they are?
You know.
You know the whole thing.
It doesn't mean you want everybody to come in and tell you that the sky's going to fall down.
That's the other thing.
There are a hell of a lot of people that get a vicarious kick out of this coming and saying, these things are terrible.
People like us gotta tell the president that he's just dropping his gun then.
I mean, telling you the obvious, we don't allow that either.
Because it's, well, that's here for no purpose at all.
Certain no purpose at all, and people do like to do it.
But the other hand, we don't allow people to just come in here and suck around.
I mean, that's, well, you don't have the credence for that.
Well, we all do.
It's hard all the time, too.
It's helpful to have your spirits buoyed up.
That's why I tell you to put it in that editorial note.
It's good.
It's good for me to see one.
I don't read medical, but they don't seem to have time for me.
But that's the difference.
You should be aware of what, you know, the positive results of what you're doing.
That's different than...
It's really true.
I think the difference between Henry and Bill, both, of course, crave attention.
But Henry is much bigger in the sense that he, more than anyone else, wants to win.
He really wants to be judged by history.
And Bill, I don't think he's thinking about what the hell he wants.
Henry wants history and Bill wants it.
Bill wants tomorrow morning's paper, tonight's TV.
How do you look?
How is his nail?
Jesus, I've never had so many applause, I've never had so many compliments, I've never had...
He doesn't realize, you know, he goes over that grave after every day.
Well, not for Christ's sakes.
But we all get a little applause, a few compliments, and so forth and so on.
Suppose I came in after every goddamn statement, and a lot of people complimented me on my toast last night.
Shouldn't that be the thing?
They're supposed to compliment you.
They're supposed to compliment you.
But you look at it...
cynically, which is the right way to look at it, which is that if you do something good, let's get some benefits from it.
Not because it makes you happy, not because you like to read all the papers and say Nixon did a great job last night, but because you know that it helps us.
One thing you ought to get out of one of your meetings with the press is the fact that I do not allow the Mandarin editorials to come in here.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I'm interested in criticism, but I... We've made that point.
Yeah.
That's pretty true, you know.
I don't ask them to send me a whole bunch of things.
Now, I'm having an old friend who's on the drive somewhere, I don't know.
But I'm looking for a bunch of angry, constant editorials.
Yeah, and ask if there's... At that point, I think it's pretty clear that...
I think it's...
Has Pat raced with you going to the opening performance at Wolf Trap Farm?
She hasn't.
You shouldn't do it.
Well, I've done it.
Well, what happens if you don't?
I'm good.
She said she's done enough at this area for the time being, and it would not be good to do anything more.
Good.
And I think if she wants to go, she's right.
It's fine.
Well, I'm an air student, so that's a good start.
Yes.
How do you do that?
All these cultural events are on their ass and they want you there because it helps to bail them out.
Academy Center.
How do you do that?
You have to do that because it's a national library and all that kind of stuff.
Is that?
Well, he knows.
He knows.
I don't know.
The president's done enough in this area for the time being.
And it is.
He's right.
You can overdo this stuff and then
Doesn't look good either.
Don't ask about what he did in this one.
Larry, don't be concerned about the Jews and Negroes now.
I know your government.
Recently, you had us on the Black Caucus and Jews come in with other people.
But did you see Mike Mansfield refused to meet with the Black Caucus?
No, did he?
They demanded that they meet with him and he said, I don't meet with groups, I meet with digs and people to talk to me.
Representing the Caucus.
Okay.
He knows what matters.
Why not?
Yeah, the man's gone here, he wants to sit there, you know, there's one, like, did it, you know, so 50% increase in taxes to help lower some of the people, that's what you want to do, folks.
Don't worry about it, I don't know.
Sure.
In that poll, you come, we come to, the administration comes to very well on helping blacks.
That's not good.
Yeah, it's...
It's well enough that I don't think you want to come through any better.
You don't come through well with blacks.
You come through well with whites.
That's all we want to do.
And we just don't do well with blacks.
But you've got to watch.
There's a line somewhere.
I don't know how far you want to come through with whites.
I know.
Because there are a hell of a lot of whites that just assume you didn't do so well.
We don't want to do so damn well with blacks.
I mean, we don't.
We can't.
The blinds just aren't going to move.
We've got to get our 10 or 15 percent.
That's about it.
What are we getting?
About 10 or 15 percent.
Or a little better.
A little better than that.
Maybe.
You can't do like Goldwater Bomb and get none.
That's something.
What you do is you try to get 15, you know, 15.5 percent.
Oh, if I could, that would be something, but I don't know.
You're going to get more blacks than Jews.
Oh, yeah.
Jews are against you on everything.
Everything.
Yeah.
Including the Middle East, but on everything else.
Just whatever you're doing, the Jews don't like it.
Because basically they're in the liberal world.
Our sample of Jews is not big enough to make it an important thing, but I asked Ben about that, and he said it would make a difference.
You can pull 10,000 Jews into the same thing.
It's big enough.
There's only 100 Jews in it or something.
He said it's big enough.
Sure.
Because they fall in where they fall.
And he said you won't.
Percentages won't vary more than 10.
See, the Jews are against 80 to 20 on virtually everything.
And he said, so maybe it's 70 to 30, which is going to be different.
We polled at exactly the right time.
We had about, this is on approval, he had approval at 48.36, if I'm not wrong.
And Gallup was about 50.37.
And our last telephone call was about 55.34.
Well, you see, we're probably a little better now.
I mean, we're at the time of this poll.
My guess is, don't you think so?
Slightly better?
Pick up the salt.
You've got some kind of salt, we know.
I mean, salt is basically a second wave thing.
Take a lot of the Russian, the Chinese thing is a second wave thing.
You get it twice.
Take the cotton then.
Take the standing up against the crime.
And law and order is the other thing you're weak on.
And that's what people are concerned with.
And those two, I'm just talking bullshit.
rate pretty well.
And I think that's one where you maintain the status quo, but don't put the stroke.
But boy, put the stroke in the dope thing.
It will make a lot of mileage, right?
Dope.
And continue to stand firm in police.
Help save the cops.
Kill the dope peddlers.
Back up the cops.
I just don't think they settle with their law.
I don't get it.
It's absolutely clear.
I hope you show this to Dick Moore.
I haven't shown it to him.
What I want to do is get all this spoiled out and make some points.
I don't want to just give it to him.
We've got a lot of people about to think we're overplaying this.
We are on the White House staff and the Washington Post editorials and
press corps, they're on 90% of what we spend and are against it.
But what we need is they're speaking out against us more often.
The more they talk about it, the better off we are.
That damn press conference helped on that.
Maybe because it was controversy.
It was a fight or something.
That's what they bring in about his piece, and that's why he raved a lot.
Like, he raved.
He does not believe in division or confrontation.
He just, uh, he recoils on it.
And he doesn't realize that it has to be, there are just some people who don't agree with him, some of these things.
We've got them.
We've got to stand up.
You get to, you know, the run-of-the-mill period in politics has got to be an attitude science, not a subtractive science.
That makes sense too, but only to a limited extent.
You can't hope to add everybody.
Our president's going to get elected by 100% vote.
You want to add, but you want to add your goal.
The goal would be to get 16 to 65% in a two-way race.
That would be a monumental landslide.
Eisenhower being Stevenson on the fifth.
59, 31, 41.
Johnson v. Goldwater, it was only 60, 40.
You realize those are the two great landslides of this.
So you're at 60%.
Nobody's going to get 60.
Nobody in our time.
We're talking about margins of 52 to 3.
If you're talking about 60, what you're saying in effect is that if you pick the right people, you can afford to make 40% of the people as long as that
Can you cue somebody else in the front row?
I think someone on the press will probably be convinced that the 10th theory is better than the second theory.
Yeah.
Do you agree?
I agree that it was stuck enough at a time.
It was fine.
It's all like we did in January.
We just did enough.
And that's it.
And we see.
Yep.
Boy, what a good white guy.
He's over there talking.
They have their bag, we've got our bag.
About building, you know, go ahead and model and have it out.
Yes, you can.
They can do it.
If they get a start order by July 1st, because it's cold, they can have it completed and operational by April.
Furnished, finished, and everything.
Cool.
In other words, they can get the hard construction done before winter and then do the interior finishing.
And be ready by April.
How much noise is it going to be?
How much is it going to get some motives?
Yeah.
During the spring and summer.
Yeah, if you're able to hold that summer.
Basically, you have a current campaign period.
Right.
Have it done.
He can build it, and he'll do it.
He just, as Don always says, you know, he'll do, he wants to be sure we recognize the potential problem.
He said we could get, how much was it that you talked about?
About half a million.
It was still up to the committee guys who are, it's the committee staff that he works with, and that's where the power is.
He can sit down with them and say that we strongly feel this ought to be done.
It really affects whoever's in the next administration.
That we needed and all that.
Will you go with us or won't you?
If they say no, then we won't do it.
If they say yes, we will.
Yeah.
Which is not a bad approach.
What you might do is to take them up there.
You ought to helicopter them up and show them the problem.
That the other places got these problems and so forth and so on.
And that it ought to be that the recommendation is to cave it down and move this down here, you know, and so forth.
And the
Actually, this is so that we want you to understand and say that this is not something that's going to benefit the present incumbent.
Because it's really something that's for the next administration, whoever's elected.
He can point that out.
He can say, well, we'll be ready until the spring of next year.
See my point?
Yeah.
And he says, no.
Therefore, it's a bipartisan decision.
And if you want it, fine.
It's something that will have to be done eventually.
The question is, do we want to do it now?
It's a great story.
It's amazing how interesting that is to people, that whole story.
It shows that one man against the world can do something still.
It's still interesting.
Yeah.
A lot of our guys use drugs and, you know, he was the first one to develop and start to use it and then speak out about it.
And we had such a big play on it that a lot of people have used it in speeches.
It's the kind of thing that makes good speech about it.
Also, that we're trying to do something and we need more of that where we just say, like on cancer, we're taking charge of the damn thing.
On this question of drugs, we're taking charge.
We're putting in on some of the things that you already did.
Could I suggest that you invite him to my hand at the drug meeting?
Let it be useful.
Let it know that we're having this drug meeting and that I've seen the product at any time.
That's what we have to do.
You can handle it.
Just like Henry handled it with Bill, it's triple A. Oh, I didn't think so.
I thought he wasn't going to.
He changed his mind.
He changed his mind.
I think he's going to him and then peel off what he wants.
Huh?
I thought he was going to accept it.
Well, he may have changed his mind.
That's probably wrong.
I may have changed my mind.
It doesn't make any difference if he's not, if he's going the other way.
I think it's better to let him in right now.
All right.
Just do it routinely.
You know, he'll do it just some.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If Bill raises a question, I'll be prepared.
He's going over it.
Bill may raise it with me with that.
I'll send it to him.
It's kind of fair.
I'll say he's going over it.
Talk to him.
It means we've got the two meeting.
Yeah.
And while he's out there, he's going to bounce around.
He's got to move.
He wants to go on a route to get some of this Vietnam stuff wrapped up.
Without any press.
God, isn't that terrible?
The bill would have to be concerned about that.
He doesn't mind if Henry does it, provided he doesn't get publicity for it.
And he was beside himself.
As I told you, he was deeply emotionally disturbed when he called me over to the State Department after he'd talked about the assault.
And his whole obsession was, I guarantee you, Bob, you will read in the paper tomorrow how many meetings Henry Kissinger had with Joe Raymond.
And I said, I'll bet you won't, Bill.
And he said, well, I'll bet you anything you want.
I said, if you will.
And then when he did it, now he's, you know, after three or four days went by, there wasn't a squeak in the paper anywhere about Henry meeting with anybody.
All of a sudden, Bill was positive about it.
There's a little controversy here, but Connolly, you notice how skillfully he raised his points.
He slipped in there and then he backed off violently.
But Bill was kind of childlike, you know what I mean?
He sort of made everybody uncomfortable.
We don't know what the hell he feels.
He's certainly got a strange, goddamn attitude.
And he does this quite often.
He's just basically always got a chip on his shoulder about whether he's gonna get the credit
Oh, it's gonna have some rings.
I think it's just going to be like this.
I think it's just going to be one of those different overcast days.
Or you might get just a drill drizzle.
What the hell, that's no problem.
Where that bike was when we grabbed it.
He drops, drops.
Not a drizzle, but just kind of scattered drops.
130 and off.
And it starts at 315.
Yes, sir, I have a 315.
Steve has a 313.
Service at 4.
You're back in the house at 430.
Three hours from now, it's all over.
You don't do anything until, uh, time's up.
You've got to sit out over there, sir.
Yes, sir.
I'm ready to go, sir.
You've got to come in.
You've got to come in.
Yes, sir.
I've got two.
I can't pick up one.
Oh.
I'll do it now.
You should be dressed.
Yeah.
It's 3.30 in the morning.
Yes, sir.
Yeah.
Go down.
Go down.
This will be well.
I wonder if they're gonna be in there with all this stuff.
Let's have the two of them gather in here.
Huh?
Yeah.
No difference at all.
Okay, let's see.
Close.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.