Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 521-004
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1971 at 2:19 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/521-004

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:03] I did the log.
[0:09] I wrote the three networks.
[0:10] The president sent a copy of his wedding card, which I thought that would be a nice thing to do.
[0:27] Very good idea.
[0:27] I sent a copy of the blind college to you.
[0:28] Good.
[0:29] The college was taking a night to work on this gas mine.
[0:30] You see, that's...
[0:34] Over here, Olson.
[0:37] Yes, sir.
[0:40] It's been worked on here.
[0:51] Over here.
[0:52] This way, this way.
[0:52] I just noticed it a couple days ago.
[0:54] A couple days ago?
[0:54] Yeah.
[0:55] I just noticed it.
[0:55] You know, this has been just worked over the night.
[0:56] That's not a good thing.
[0:57] Olson, is there one there?
[0:58] Yeah, with silver leaves.
[0:59] That's a yacht.
[0:59] Somebody has just come in here and just...
[1:01] I think somebody here will be watching security a little.
[1:21] Somebody's been here with a knife with that damn gas.
[1:22] Here, over here, you see, I first looked, I said, my God, I must have done it with my shoes.
[1:24] You shouldn't have done that.
[1:25] Well, I don't look like this.
[1:26] They are there.
[1:26] These are leather.
[1:26] They have no cuts.
[1:27] Unless you had a nail sticking out.
[1:27] I never had.
[1:28] But it's cut over here.
[1:28] Also, I don't look like this.
[1:29] Look at it here, though.
[1:29] You wouldn't get a cut.
[1:31] Got shit here.
[1:34] Yeah, well, these are cunts, too.
[1:35] See, this gas is totally finished.
[1:39] I've never noticed these cunts before.
[1:41] These are cunts.
[1:43] They don't move like that.
[1:51] This is some of this stuff.
[1:52] Well, anyway, what else is going on?
[1:54] Well, we're working, Mr. President, on getting the, uh, what do you call it?
[1:58] Oh, yeah, let's see.
[2:00] Let me ask, uh, I think we ought to do it as a matter of fact, for their own sake, a long story here.
[2:04] I think it's a hell of a good show.
[2:08] I, I talked to Gulf, who sponsored the NBC, uh, which I could talk to securely because their, their man here is totally loyal to us.
[2:18] He thought it was a great idea to put it, try to put it together.
[2:21] So much to say that the hell of a lot of people are interested.
[2:24] Is that what you told them?
[2:28] Yes, sir.
[2:28] And they were very pleased.
[2:31] He said that they're helping to advise the man from the parents.
[2:33] It's perfectly, uh, justifiable.
[2:39] Yeah.
[2:39] The rerun, the summer's, you can credit that thing, you know.
[2:45] The summer month's coming.
[2:48] It'll be a great summer rerun.
[2:49] We've urged that they push it to next week while it's still going to be done.
[2:54] And I owe you back, I hope, before the end of the day.
[3:02] Good.
[3:04] Push to get it out.
[3:09] I noticed your suggestion about your young man.
[3:10] Why don't you just bring him in?
[3:11] All right.
[3:11] I wonder if you shouldn't have him in.
[3:12] Thank you.
[3:13] He would, he'd love it.
[3:15] That'd be better than a phone call.
[3:16] I think so, I think so.
[3:18] Just bring him in, I'll spend ten minutes with him.
[3:22] He went back to San Antonio yesterday, and...
[3:25] You're discouraged.
[3:26] Well, he's just a very idealistic kid.
[3:28] Well, the Cabot show, he should know it was a hell of a plus for him, going on.
[3:33] But the audience believed in that sort of stuff.
[3:35] Well, the audience cheered the other veterans who were around him, who were Cabot.
[3:41] Cabot interrupted them consistently, and every time he tried to make a point, Cabot would stop him.
[3:45] He's a... What the hell is Cabot?
[3:48] Oh, Christ, he's... God, he's...
[3:51] He's terrible?
[3:52] He's...
[3:52] It's impossible.
[3:54] He loads every program automatically.
[3:58] Nothing you can do about it on this, sir.
[4:01] We've complained bitterly about the cabinship.
[4:04] I noticed.
[4:04] I would have known, I guess, about the maturity and the wealth of the cabins.
[4:08] Nothing you can do.
[4:09] He would not disclose who was going to be on it.
[4:12] It was originally to be a Kerry-O'Neill debate.
[4:16] And that was where he put up their song.
[4:18] Well, sir, anyway, we could screw it.
[4:19] That's what I mean.
[4:20] There must be ways.
[4:21] We've been trying to.
[4:23] ABC takes...
[4:25] He's in a peculiar position in the news department.
[4:27] He doesn't consider it a news show.
[4:31] It's an entertainment show.
[4:33] No, it's an ABC show.
[4:36] ABC.
[4:37] Captain's ABC, is there?
[4:38] No, we've got to get it.
[4:40] And they... Well, we'll let it go.
[4:41] What else is... What about your...
[4:44] I, uh...
[4:44] Uh...
[4:46] I think you ought to figure out what the line is.
[4:56] We're going to play a very hard line on the New York Times.
[5:01] This is a practice thing about national security.
[5:04] Of course, it's the old business about, suppose it had been World War II, and suppose it had been hell in Korea.
[5:14] But Jesus Christ, I mean, you don't, this is a reckless breach of security.
[5:19] You can't allow it.
[5:22] That's all there is to it.
[5:25] We're going to fight it even though it escalates the problem.
[5:27] We're going to escalate the coverage.
[5:29] So, all right, the main thing is that you've got to, they've got to emphasize to our people that this is a family quarrel of the previous administration.
[5:36] Right.
[5:37] And nothing to do with us.
[5:38] Well, if nothing happens in 1968, then we're not going to get in.
[5:45] We're not going to comment.
[5:46] On the other hand, the principle of disclosure of classified information is not a matter of quorum.
[5:51] That involves nations.
[5:53] We've got to fight right against them.
[5:54] And I'm going to have to face the goddamn times.
[5:56] Well, I mean, you couldn't hit him hard enough as far as I'm concerned.
[5:59] I think it happened.
[6:01] I think that escalating it is not too bad in the sense that it's going to be a story of a reign.
[6:08] in another sense, that it makes, it permits you to accentuate the point that it is a federal quarrel.
[6:14] It had nothing to do with us.
[6:15] We're not involved, provided we got it across as a matter of national security.
[6:19] Well, Bob was saying, you know, that McCloskey and these other people are all saying, well, this is what this administration is doing.
[6:25] Well, let's put it another way, Bob.
[6:27] Why don't we just say Johnson lied us into war and Nixon's lying us out?
[6:32] No, really.
[6:33] Put it right out.
[6:38] No, I think you've got to be careful not to take Johnson off.
[6:43] But basically, I feel for him.
[6:44] I swear I didn't go out and tell the press.
[6:48] Here in the White House, about time he faced the White House press corps.
[6:51] You see, Go Water is a beautiful position.
[6:54] It shows that he was a big hero.
[6:59] Johnson, by God, was live.
[7:03] He's already been on television.
[7:04] I know, but he didn't go on again.
[7:06] And he could say, I'm shocked at this, and I appear to say that I do not, I take no comfort in having, as the line should be used, in having my, the security of my country so in peril by this reckless disclosure of classified information.
[7:20] And also, it's only part of it, and of you, of a few left-wing bastards
[7:23] I'll tell you one thing.
[7:25] Nothing's ever going to be disclosed throughout here anymore.
[7:29] Nothing's ever going to go to the State Department or the Defense Department on this office.
[7:34] Never.
[7:34] I don't trust them.
[7:35] Hell, if they let files out like that, or if they actually went to work and put those files together, I know it would be possible that the content files would be taken out if they gave you a bunch of assignments.
[7:48] I don't believe that the
[7:50] I don't believe there's anything to lose in fighting the New York Times.
[8:02] The constituency of the New York Times is never going to be with us.
[8:03] You know, their constituency is not also the one the press relates to.
[8:05] Nevertheless, we're going to fight it right down to the core.
[8:06] Yeah, but you're not fighting them now on the question of freedom of the press.
[8:07] You're fighting them on the question of violating the Constitution.
[8:10] It's not a secret, but it's got to be done.
[8:13] I don't know what's going to be done, but I think that I'd like to see some Congress call for an investigation.
[8:19] That's the place to do it.
[8:20] Get it on there in Congress.
[8:21] Get them under oath.
[8:23] There are three factors that could have done it.
[8:25] It's yell, yell, warn, or help.
[8:27] Call them all in.
[8:31] Put them under oath.
[8:31] Make the sons of patients say, did we or didn't you do it?
[8:35] Newsweek magazine, Washington had it till the scouting this morning.
[8:40] that they are 80% certain they know who leaked the documents and how.
[8:46] And that if they can establish one more appointment, they will print it next week if they can.
[8:51] They'd like to do it in the times.
[8:54] See, they're all competitive, Bob.
[8:58] Well, there it is.
[8:59] Is there any other dirty names you're up to that I should know about?
[9:02] I don't want to play you names.
[9:05] We've been doing quite a bit in the mailing front, too.
[9:08] The president is a
[9:10] Kept by the guys, I think.
[9:13] Because you, Scott, told me that he'd taken on Teddy again.
[9:18] Yes, he did.
[9:20] Come on, think about it.
[9:25] Teddy would have taken on my...
[9:28] I thought the fact that I was hiding behind my religion or something.
[9:29] Quit your... You've got to remind me.
[9:31] The way Teddy has used that capital business, Jesus Christ.
[9:33] What the hell is he up to?
[9:34] Why is he set up as a... Building his credibility as a presidential candidate.
[9:36] Huh?
[9:36] field his credibility as a presidential candidate by tracking you on the sheriff's police.
[9:42] Rumstead is ignoring all of his Democratic contenders and pulling himself out of the field by taking on Nixon.
[9:49] Rumstead may have a chance to take him on today.
[9:53] Kennedy is speaking at the J.C.'s annual convention in Oregon.
[9:56] Rumstead follows him.
[9:59] And we've mailed out Kennedy's statement and Humphrey's answer to all the
[10:05] daily all across the country about Bill and Senator this weekend.
[10:13] I think it will encourage some editorials, because if you read the actual colloquy on the floor, it's just...
[10:21] I've heard about the J.C.s, though, but I'll have to... Oh, well, Rumsfeld won't take them on.
[10:25] He doesn't understand the war issue.
[10:27] We'll take them on in the statement of prolonging the war deliberately for political gain.
[10:32] I don't know what will happen to the J.C.s, but they have a little
[10:34] protest of sorts organized when Kennedy speaks because of this statement.
[10:47] Which hopefully will enable us to escalate things a bit.
[10:51] I think he's going to regret that statement.
[10:53] I think that's a political excess that can bounce back.
[10:59] I haven't seen the editorial sheet.
[11:01] No.
[11:02] But they'll come.
[11:04] They'll come.
[11:05] There hasn't been time for the editorials, really.
[11:08] Yeah.
[11:08] Because the ones that you'll get will be from the small, you know, from around the country.
[11:14] You won't get an editorial.
[11:15] He is certainly banging around.
[11:16] Technical Kennedy style.
[11:17] He's locked up the Massachusetts building.
[11:21] Yeah, I understood that.
[11:23] It's a very clever move.
[11:23] What's Muskie doing?
[11:25] Losing his staff.
[11:27] I mean, broke.
[11:27] Nothing new on that.
[11:29] What about Hubert?
[11:29] Hubert's talking tough, too, isn't he?
[11:31] He really was tough on Sunday.
[11:35] He hit you very hard and backed away from his criticism.
[11:39] He tried to back away from his criticism of Kennedy.
[11:41] They didn't let him.
[11:42] Oh, is that right?
[11:44] Well, he's still quite smart.
[11:46] He's sort of sticking to you on foreign policy a little bit.
[11:50] A little.
[11:51] And talking the bejesus out of you on the economy.
[11:56] Sure.
[11:56] And it's a good line.
[11:57] Whatever boom that Humphrey had going is probably shot out of the saddle by the New York Times.
[12:03] Oh, my God, he's up on the hill today saying that he didn't know anything about it, had never seen the documents, knew nothing about it.
[12:08] He's always been saying that.
[12:10] Oh, I know.
[12:11] But he's vice president.
[12:13] He can't do something.
[12:15] Huh?
[12:15] He can't.
[12:16] He can't shake that off.
[12:18] You don't think so?
[12:20] I mean, he can cry.
[12:20] He can say it.
[12:22] I don't give him credit.
[12:23] He can shake it off.
[12:23] The problem he gets is in the process of doing it, he totally alienates the Johnson.
[12:28] What there is is a Johnson wing of the party.
[12:32] Johnson, which is a part of his strength in the party.
[12:35] The guy I'm becoming increasingly worried about is Scoot Jackson.
[12:39] He is.
[12:40] I don't know whether you saw that Evans and Novak piece yesterday, but it was right on, except that they left out the biggest power block he's got, which was organized lately.
[12:51] If you add that to what they, I don't know if you should get it, but all they did, they were saying he could easily pick up border states like Tennessee, and I agree, and Florida, and primaries, build some momentum and get some national recognition, and go into the convention with a solid block of
[13:10] He has this problem.
[13:16] Jackson invites what Kennedy would not.
[13:22] There has to be a vote in favor of Jackson.
[13:25] There would not be necessarily Kennedy.
[13:29] See Kennedy, that's where Kennedy would be dangerous.
[13:32] Kennedy would preempt the left and the center.
[13:35] You see, how the hell are they going to get to the left of Kennedy?
[13:48] See, that's what Kennedy's doing, blocking out the third party.
[13:54] I'm going to block this nut, but he could probably stop it.
[13:56] But Jackson will break a whole party on a rail, because Jackson, like anything on many Soviet relations, is going to be in a harder line of position than I am.
[14:02] That's what I think.
[14:02] I agree that he's more credible as a candidate.
[14:04] I think the rest was he made a better president.
[14:16] So that's where his strength is.
[14:17] You know, he drained off some of our national strength.
[14:20] Well, that's not it.
[14:21] That's right.
[14:22] On the other hand, he had to lose his own base.
[14:24] He's not the Democrat.
[14:25] No, I wouldn't think so.
[14:26] I'd let it go.
[14:27] It's just, like you said, the more the merrier.
[14:28] I think the best thing is to have him on the fight.
[14:30] Chris, I'm pulling like hell for Teddy Kennedy.
[14:31] I just think Chappaquiddick is insurmountable.
[14:32] You do?
[14:32] I had it rerun, Mr. President, on television yesterday, the statement he made after the...
[14:39] Remember when he came on and spoke to the mayor about it?
[14:43] And he used a line in there, which I'd forgotten about, but a political friend of mine reminded me of, that in my anguish and in the crisis, many emotions...
[14:56] I was overcome by emotions.
[14:59] Grief, doubt,
[15:02] They use the word panic, which is politically devastating.
[15:11] If that tape were rerun in any context in a political campaign, it would just be murder.
[15:17] Well, it will have a hell of an effect.
[15:21] There's no question about it.
[15:22] But it would be quite a battle.
[15:22] It's quite obvious this fellow is a desperate guy who lied to do anything.
[15:25] But you'd have to play it.
[15:25] It would be the most vicious campaign in history.
[15:27] It would be a very tough campaign.
[15:29] You'd have to play it very tough against him.
[15:31] Just, I say the opposite any chance I get, but I'm convinced that Jeff would put it with Peter.
[15:43] Well, everybody should worry about all of them.
[15:47] Yeah.
[15:47] Buchanan had, must be nominated in January, and now who's the nomination?
[15:52] The candidate.
[15:53] The candidate, because he doesn't think he's the candidate now.
[15:54] That's what I think.
[15:56] I, however, think that Hubert is the one that they come around to.
[16:04] Except Hubert has a problem.
[16:07] My God, he looks so bad.
[16:08] Hubert is, you know, there's something that happens as we can't bring him across.
[16:12] But what do you think?
[16:14] He just looks, looks about and, you know, he sounds dead.
[16:16] But I know he looks better.
[16:18] He's got a hair and all.
[16:20] Well, I'll tell you what, that's what I meant.
[16:24] The physical appearance.
[16:25] There's a certain virus in this.
[16:25] You don't have to be handsome.
[16:26] He already had some in the campaign.
[16:27] But now the hair is dyed.
[16:29] His face is sallow.
[16:31] His weight problem, he's apparently going up and down.
[16:37] Therefore, he hangs more than he used to.
[16:38] And I think he just has a hell of a time.
[16:39] He just looks like a goddamn freak.
[16:41] You know?
[16:42] What do you think?
[16:44] Well, he's got the
[16:45] propensity for overplaying everything.
[16:48] He overdone it.
[16:49] He's great at exaggerating.
[16:51] God, he's incredible.
[16:52] He, uh, at the gridiron club, I'll never forget, he remained standing after all the applause stopped and kept on waiting.
[16:58] Just a pitiful sight.
[16:59] The guy, Ritter, the gridiron club, when he got there, he stood up and when the applause had died down and stopped, he was still standing there waiting.
[17:08] The lights went off and he was still waiting.
[17:12] I mean, that's just it.
[17:13] Well, I just play all games now, and, uh,
[17:15] I think we're doing, we're on the right track, don't you think?
[17:27] Yes, sir.
[17:27] I do.
[17:27] A few little political things that we'll be doing.
[17:28] Oh, yes.
[17:32] But I think the summer is a damn good time to just, we'll have to move along in a cool manner.
[17:39] I think after this, sir, people will get terribly tired of it.
[17:41] The other side had started much too early for their own sake.
[18:00] Thank you, Mike.
[18:14] First of all, it looks like they were running sometimes over.
[18:22] These are cuts.
[18:24] These in here are just straight cuts.
[18:31] You can feel it.
[18:33] Okay.
[18:33] All right.
[18:33] Thank you, sir.