Conversation 527-011

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The President will be here in just a little while.

Okay.

Well, the trucker says that the gold is a dirty thing.

Yeah, that's not true.

Somebody must take the, uh, I don't intend to work, you know, just want to give you a chance.

I'm pleased that you are too.

Oh, I know.

That's my daily life.

I couldn't have said that to a better man.

I think you'll have to go back a long way if you're fine.

Well, John, how are you?

How are you?

Hi.

No, he isn't here.

Well, I hope they don't stop at that Jackson Bay and have to go up here and there for about a week and say, you don't have one here at all.

Let's go up here and find them.

But I go, why don't you go up here?

I don't want to go up here.

I said, no, it's not here.

This is Captain Priest's.

I said, why should you?

He said, no, there's a thing in this that's 68.

So let's go.

It sort of disturbs my good life.

I didn't know Mike was from Oklahoma.

I was just beginning to trust him.

I guess he has a few balls.

I mean, I'm from Washington.

I don't know if you know him.

I'm not sure I know him.

Mr. President, we have a group here this morning representing all of the agencies and all of the organizations that are working with the federal government on this problem.

During the week, Chairman John Harper of the NAD and Jim Holtz of the Towson Veterans Organization met with us in the Labor Department.

We worked out the implementing principles that were actually used in this thing.

And we are here this morning to talk to you, particularly Chairman Harper, who's got an indication of the kind of target that the NAB is going to set for veteran hiring.

It's a target that Bill Witter tells me he thinks is going to be

very much reachable and that might even be able to exceed.

Jim is particularly convinced that this timing is exactly right.

They've done the groundwork.

They've laid the basis and publicity for this kind of thing.

Now the NAB with its operating organization picks it up and does the work.

Just a moment.

The dimensions of the problem, I think we could say, well, something like this.

There are, at the present time, under 30.

H veterans in the workforce, 3.6 million.

And unemployed, 332,000, 9.3%.

Go ahead, Joe.

I'll talk a little bit later before I'm employed.

Yeah.

The comparable age group would be about 7%, 6.97%.

So they're still yet to be narrowed to be filled, and this kind of activity can focus on that thing.

That's what we'll tell the press this morning.

So as far as the people, we think that there's a whole portion to that.

And so this is a vision to our hardcore goals.

The hardcore goal is the minority.

So I just want to cry.

There's only one thing that concerns me that I know you will cover adequately, that this is not only an addition, but that you are continuing on the other things all out.

And this is something that your business community is undertaking in addition, right?

We're prepared to also, let's put it that way, in terms of a hardcore thing, let's face it, an awful lot of these

That's right, a lot of blacks in larger towns.

And it's a veteran's population.

Is this true of the unemployed in particular?

I think a lot of blacks and Mexicans would be in there.

I think they are.

But we want to have a separate program.

The business community is prepared to accept your request.

We can move into this.

We're setting a goal here this year, 100,000 veterans interested to our goals and our core employees.

And we particularly want to make sure that we emphasize that these are separate programs, and we're keeping them separate, but that this community will face up to this challenge and move into it.

And that there are two programs.

First is one, which is the Department of Labor, sponsoring the contracts, paying the extra cost of training, and the other is a voluntary program.

Up to now, we've met a few more people, what, 55% against the report.

In 1964, we had 60% are without contract.

People do this voluntarily.

And all veterans are eligible for that.

For the one that would count as support, we're going to pick the veterans who need help the most.

These are the ones who will have the most trouble finding jobs.

They need help most of these are the people who go after first credit in this chapter.

And I have no hesitancy in pledging that this community will face up to this and go out out there.

As usual, we're going to need this.

We're going to have to use it.

But let's see if we're going to have all the help we can get in the way of making it absolutely plain that this has your complete support for the impact of the damage you've done.

Whereas the air group, of course, comes in here.

Yes, I'd like to just take a minute to tell you, Mr. President, about the timing of this.

And we started off on your direction with a stall.

There wasn't any concern or talk or worry about it generally.

The targeting plan that was being employed was not recognized.

And we have been, I think, reasonably successful in building up a national alertness on this sector.

The conscience of the base is being triggered, and furthermore,

All interested panelists, including the business groups, have been fully advised that the great majority of these matters were made to set up by tiny, qualified, talented, skilled, honest, and... And not drug addicts and... And not drug addicts and assassins.

Yeah, exactly.

Now, let's all listen here.

If I may say something.

You never miss an opportunity to defend the battery.

I miss Dan O'Lifle.

I mean, he falls there.

It just, Mel, that I talked about, it just makes me sit.

You know, you see some pile.

I mean, he leaves.

I mean, let me say a word.

Let me say a word about this fall that we talked about, the captured documents.

You know, the background of the smoke.

in Ellsworth as president in charge.

Well, between 64 and 67, he was the worst hawk there was.

He used to ride around in the jeep in the countryside with the pacification program and the submachine gun, and he shot anybody in black pajamas that he saw.

That's the kind of girl he got any turn.

Now, the great majority of our American men out there in the service

They've gone out there and they've taken a lousy assignment.

They've taken all the heat and all the everything that goes with war and worse still, the lack of support.

They've been decent.

They've helped these people.

They've contributed hundreds of millions of dollars actually to come down to it with their own money and time to help rebuild this country.

And this idea that here we have, coming and returning from Vietnam, a group of men that have, by war, they've been made out to be hounds, and they can't be trusted.

They're likely to lurk around and kill somebody.

They're dope fiends.

It's just wrong.

It's not true.

There are some.

But if they had never gone, there would have been a lot of them that did that very same thing.

And I just hope that, never, never miss that opportunity to say that apart from a prayer to defend our guys.

You're so right.

And thank you to the Baron and his body.

and his enjoyment of it, and even the necessity that he didn't like, is now affecting the city.

So that's why it's timely that now we've got 200 cities of over 10,000 with active task forces organized to beat the citizens in the community.

They're both dedicated to finding jobs for veterans.

And part of the state is that, well, I'm telling you, one of the states has agitators.

So that this is Tesla-like moment for John and his team of organizations to come here and capitalize on this settlement and have it grow and work with us.

And we are going to be double our efforts someday.

publicity and promotion side of the education side.

And I want to say just this.

One of the very unfortunate facts is that you had to have a program which is the focus of today's session.

These other things that we have been talking about for some time, like the lifting of the contract, the deployment opportunity, like the expansion of the transit, like the clearing up of the GI on the general.

So it's all part of this picture.

And this nation is going to come through on this issue.

Mel, how do you feel about it?

He's the man that really alerted us to this problem long before it happened.

He pointed out, as we went on our withdrawal program before the 70 elections, he said, you realize they're going to be over immediately, and then the 70 elections that are going to be let out of the armed services and defense plans.

Well, I was president.

I didn't get to program this, but it worked.

I didn't get

And I think one of the things, the question I have is the way these people are being accepted back into their community.

And we've had to raise the sights of not only businesses, but other people in the community to the contribution these people have made.

We owe them something.

Oh boy.

I say we owe them something.

One of the things we owe them is truth.

We're going to build something out of this afterwards, other than something like, well, we'll wash our hands, boys, and let the communists take over Asia.

If we do that, we will betray them.

Well, one other point I'd like to make on my question.

I think that I'm not aggressive in my thinking.

It's not about economics.

I'm sure we get a lot of questions about, isn't your program falling flat?

Because it's not going to.

Sure, sure.

We'll answer this.

It isn't falling flat.

We've put 700,000 people to work in the last three years, and we're going to expand our goals for this next year.

So I think that my view of this, and I don't know whether these people are following this, that we're taking a very positive approach to the press and to the budget.

At this time, it is working.

Two other problems.

We're going to be asking about the drug problem.

Well, there's a drug problem with some of the hardcore employees.

I don't know if it's going to work.

So the drug problem interrupts you.

It's a very delicate thing to mention.

But among drug users, 48% are non-white.

92%.

This is the whole society.

So basically, it is still, while it is moving to the non-white area, it is still primarily white.

It has enormously more impact on the nonprofit.

Well, my reaction is it's doesn't get any of the detail arguing about the direct problems.

I'm just saying if there weren't problems, there would have been some business.

Good.

There's no problem at all.

You're supposed to sound like you're a successful business executive.

Right, Mark?

You know, it's prevalent.

What these two organizations are doing, particularly in Hamill over the last three years, is a tremendous job.

I know.

And it's just too bad that we have the haters and fellows like that who will never get business credit for doing anything.

This is being done on the island.

And somehow or other, we've got to see that this does give credit for what it does to help solve these social problems.

There's another time in this thing, too, and I'm going to speak from Jeremy's standpoint, and that is the hard core program is three years old.

And we're three years away from a very long, exciting job.

And just keeping the momentum of interest of three or four thousand businessmen and their bosses up is difficult.

And I mean, well, this is a challenge.

This is a test.

They need it.

They want it.

I think this is it, but I'd just like to tell you one thing.

I have yet to call any businessman in this country and ask him to do something or give us a man or do something himself and get turned down except for perfectly good psychology.

I mean, this has been all over the country in that time.

You know, it's an interesting thing.

We talk about our system and the rest of it.

I think the American people are really, in a way, this is one of ours.

It's been an actual trait from the beginning.

We're suckers for idealistic causes.

When I say suckers, I say it was a great commendation that you can call people you love.

Let's help the people that are starving and gone.

I remember when I went to Sunday School as a kid, we would put the pennies in the box for them.

And yes, you know, it was in Alaska, the Indians in Guadalajara, those who were friends were helping.

And that's done, that's multiplied a hundred times over in other areas now.

Because here's, you take the business community.

The business community, who are the businessmen in this country?

Well, there are people who have gone to colleges.

universities, probably the business schools and the rest of them will come up in other ways.

They're married, they have families, they've got kids and the rest.

They're idealistic.

Sure, they've got to meet their boards of directors and the chief executives, and they've got to show a profit.

Also, they care very much about what happens to the country, and they just don't want to come this way and contribute nothing to it.

Some people say, well, it's good business to be involved in community action.

Sure, that's true.

But also they want to do it because it's right.

Same is true of so many other areas.

I spoke to the FDA yesterday, and I said, oh, I agree to get a nerve center with some of these guys because they've been responsible to a great extent, some doctors, for being too permissive with regard to

over-subscribing drugs.

As a result, they contribute to the drug culture.

So one, you have to get out of the problem of stopping over-subscribing.

And second, we need, by active help of the doctors of this country, who have more individuals than anybody else, in informing young Americans as to the dangers of drugs.

Because when a doctor comes in and tells you, much better than a preacher does or a politician, but it's dangerous to do this or that or the other thing, you say no.

Also, you say, look, you're going to destroy your body, you're going to destroy your mind.

Don't do that.

And he puts it on that basis, make you listen.

And I said, you have done it.

He said, you would always say that you're pretty busy with your own professions, but otherwise you're going to lose the whole generation to drugs.

So what happens?

Well, the head of the organization says we accept the challenge.

We're going to call it Project USA.

And 200,000 members of the AMA and a lot of other doctors are going to go out and start doing what they should have done long ago, alerting the American people that drugs and the person can either be as they are and have been in many areas, that they can save life, that they can cure, or they can destroy them.

And in the doctor's hand,

This is what I told them.

I said, here are your hands.

Maybe the future is a country town.

So they respond.

Businessmen respond.

You meet with some Negro leaders, you know.

These guys, sure, we will argue with them about this and that and the other thing.

But when you really lay it on the line in terms of the good of the country and the rest, they want to help out.

You've been very cooperative.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Very cooperative.

Good.

So we're...

Oh, they, what did that, did any of you have any report on public service?

I understand they amended that.

It could be helpful.

They got that down to a point, I think, where I would be prepared to, I would recommend that we go on that one because

And if they've done it on a transitional basis that we wanted, then they've committed to reporting out a comprehensive manpower reform bill by the end of the year.

We were afraid that all they were trying to do was put this sort of thing through and then forget about any real manpower reform, use this as a substitute for it.

But you've also felt they haven't put in a section providing for

Uh, part of this could go to veterans, too.

Well, now, on that note, I'm going to say, do you understand, Jim?

Do that.

Let's give a reading of veterans.

You've got to give them a reading of veterans.

I don't want to hedge.

They're entitled to an edge, because basically, first of all, well, you know, we're too greedy.

None of us were entitled to an edge, because everybody was in it.

Everybody was in it.

You know, I'm sure there were a few that weren't in it because of physical or other disabilities, but we were all in it, either by practice or volunteers, so nobody could really have had an edge.

Nobody should have had a bonus or this or that or the other thing.

But in this war, where, frankly, us...

relatively small percentage really go, hmm, my golly, these guys are kind of on edge because they go out there and they spend 18 months or two years, two years usually, which is probably 14 months from Vietnam.

They come out of the service.

And here's the other guy that didn't go for a ride.

He was lucky with his doctor.

He was lucky with his department.

He was lucky he kept a colleague.

He was lucky he had parents that were smart enough to know that he was smart enough to know how to avoid it legally, but he had every right to.

So these guys said, but my father, when this matter comes back, he is entitled to an edge over everybody else.

And I want to see that he gets the edge.

And that means

That doesn't mean, it means all veterans, black veterans, white veterans, and the rest, and he should have an edge over, let me put it quite directly to you, the black veteran should have an edge over the black non-veterans, and the black veteran should have an edge over the white non-veterans.

And the white barons should have an edge over the black non-barons.

Now, usually, we'll find most of the blacks have an edge, because, you know, they didn't have the wherewithal, the education, and the rest to avoid it.

So, again, that's your problem.

Let's not have any nonsense.

We really want to give the barons an edge, and it's the right thing to do.

You can't let these guys come back here.

Because I have a letter, a very touchy letter, from a fellow, from San Francisco.

And he spoke of, he'd just come back, and he'd been out there, and he was enormously proud of his service.

You know, he came around, he's been around to several places trying for a job.

Other guys were there, and the veteran thing, he felt was really hurting them a lot.

I mean, he still did a job in the White House, but you see, we just don't want to have a situation where the veteran

We're a son of discrimination against you.

That's what it is.

It's very subtle.

You know this, gentlemen.

And let's not kid ourselves.

Some businessmen, and it's only some, some businessmen actually want to play it safe.

For example, who wants to hire a former convict?

And in the minds of many people, you hear the media getting it night after night after night.

You think American veterans are, frankly, former convicts.

At this time, that is not true.

And then it gets worse, too.

Look out for the drug thing.

What else do you want to do?

I'm all for attacking the war.

I can assure you I'm on your side of things.

Because you're fighting.

Look at these false partners.

We think we're good at keeping these programs separate.

I agree with you on that.

I don't think we want to come out and talk about preference.

We want to make sure that they understand that.

I tell you that they shall give them a name.

You know, if you talk about preference, then you're going to have an uproar.

We've now got an endless argument against number.

That's right.

I can assure you that you get it.

But you tell you're going to raise it around preference.

Look, put yourself in the position of this guy.

Let me put it another way.

Give them the same edge that you've been giving the blacks at this time.

That's a group.

Now, this isn't happening.

This isn't against blacks.

As I say, a very high percentage of these average will be black, these unemployed ones.

You give us, you have no apology about giving blacks and Chicanos an edge.

Now, let's have no apology about giving parents an edge.

All right, now that's what we might have done.

We're really complete.

I mean, you could leave that picture of the room before you go on.

I did not.

I didn't want to do that.

I'm sorry.

I hope he got on us.

That's not maybe where I'll send it.

I'll take his letter.

In fact, I'll send it over to you.

And I want you to, if we do it, you tell the president I sent it over.

I got his letter.

I sent it to you.

You call him.

You have one of your guys.

You're getting a job.

So he's one of those folks that I can tell is probably a question I can do.

They did the picture, though, right?

You know how they did that?

They all said, you know, just the, uh, they've got the whole group.

I thought he did.

That's the first thing I should make sure.

I went all over the media.

I said, all right, all right.

They have no, no complaints to me.

Well, we appreciate it, Captain, for your support.

We're going to bring you here to Iraq.

And if not here, you keep that in mind.

Thanks, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Will you please tell us when we can't hold it back, sir, or not?

Because the more publicity we get, the more we focus on it.

Well, Harry, you know, Harry, you keep a bus.

Harry, you pass the word to us here at the White House, and I'll do it.

Now, let us know.

You might say that no need.

Good.

I agree.

That's very well.

All right.

I'm glad to have you here.

Don, a marvelous job.

Thank you.

Good luck to you.

Thank you very much.

I think we've got a pretty good arrangement, but I've got a pretty good idea.

Yeah, I just want to get away from them and get involved in that directly.

Those are their guys.

Actually, uh...

Uh, yes, I'm the secretary of the Tennessee Fire, the office of the one and only.

Well, we didn't get into that.

We put the mic on.

There's a lot of this stuff today.

We've heard a lot of these things.

First of all, there's a lot of it.

As far as this is concerned, it's not a good concern.

For it all to come out, I said this involves a job.

I said, we're not going to cover up anything.

You're going to put all of us on the other end.

We will fight you, and I don't want to use the camera, I said, we will fight you to the death.

anything to the death, if you do anything that compromises an American code, if tolerates gathering information, which thereby might make it more difficult for us to defend our remaining people, or just Vietnam or other places in the world, or that compromises our full resources of information, we've got to fight for almost as far as the inter-office memoranda, et cetera, et cetera, as some people have said.

On the other hand, Mike, your committee owes it, actually, owes it, it seems to me, not to present a one-sided picture.

I said, you, uh, said it's far-fetched for me to try to say that you want to be fair to McNamara and those other calls, but you want to call all of them in, and let them present their side of the story, not just have the side of the story, which I know is what's wrong.

Let's keep that one.

Well, I don't think about that.

And three percent of all of them do that.

And one thing.

Another thing.

My feeling now is that it's to our political interests not to take Johnson on personally.

I hate that it's a mistake.

Johnson's still going to be a man.

He's going to leave the Democratic Party.

Yeah, he is.

Do you want a good vote?

Yeah, I'd like to hear it right here.

Oh, God.

And also, I told Mike, I said, now Mike, the remains are all there.

I said, I'm having some conversations with Romanians on other things at the present time.

I said, if that is disclosed, I'm going to put the heat on them.

It will go on the Romanians.

I'm going to say the goddamn Senate or the House or whoever it is.

I said, there are other third parties that have been involved here.

He said, you've read about the Canadians and you've read about the Australians.

I said, well, I haven't heard about them.

I said, but some of these others, we have current negotiations going on.

The highest level.

I said, you can't allow this to happen.

So we've got him in the last six, not in the head, but in the chin.

I thought you could read to Michael what, to Mel, but you're intercepting on Johnson's call.

with the loose man, 45 minutes conversation with the loose man.

We're not vindicating him.

It is his attack.

It is his source.

It is his non-attack.

No.

No attack.

Now, these are direct quotes.

He's in a towering rage on the release of the Pentagon Papers.

He puts Bobby Kennedy behind the back of our decision to commission the report.

He says he will not attend any Democratic convention for presidential nominations.

And we give him some quotes.

I won't go to the lefties, the creeps, all their bastard friends who prove lots of convention procedures.

They hate me, they always have.

We also see what that silly son of a bitch McGovern's been doing and what he's been saying.

The fact that I won't go to a convention won't bother the bastards.

What will bother them is what they won't really know.

I'm going to do everything I possibly can to beat the dirty, rotten sons of bitches in 1972.

You can bet on that.

I'm afraid that Nixon will have to move faster on his program to get us out of Vietnam.

That's the way I see it.

I don't think he has any other option now that this crap is out.

The bastards are trying to kill the country.

They don't feel the need.

We have to find a common, unifying way to beat their heads to a pulp.

Then, on Clark Booker, he says, down in Austin, the library exercises is till the motherfucker hid behind the tree.

I know who stays, my friend, who doesn't.

Then back to the Democratic conventions, he says, it won't be an convention, it'll be a goddamn zoo.

I've also got a quote from Gail McGee, which is pretty interesting.

She's the same source.

He expressed his disgust with the revelations, his disgust with colleagues like McGovern, Mansfield, and Fulbright is even sharper, and quote, I think all this business makes it just about certain that we will have two Democratic candidates for president.

There will be one for the super doves and one for regular Democrats, who for the regulars, the last few days, an interesting combination has been drifting around, Scoop Jackson and Wilbur Mills.

Even if that doesn't come off, my guess is that Nixon will have a much easier time in 1972 than he did before.

I won't support any dove, I'll tell you that, and I'll bet Scoop won't either.

There are lots of Scoop.

But what do you do then?

Support the state candidates who aren't McGovern-Kennedy types and keep my mouth shut noticeably on a so-called national ticket.

But I do believe there will be an anti-dove ticket too on a national basis.

No, but that's their feeling now.

We've got to keep it going.

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Nobody has called.

Henry just talked to Roscoe.

He just called me and said, Mr. President, we just ought to know this, that the President, you and I, that you and I, that I express great concern about this thing I am.

with the whole business, that we're fighting it right to the last in the courts, that I told Lansfield this morning that under absolutely no circumstances would I have been over these papers, if there was any thought whatever of having, of inviting Johnson, even my invitation to come, that no president should ever prepare that if he were invited, I would publicly state that he should not come.

And Lansfield said he's agreed to that position.

A little of that.

As far as we're concerned, Mr. President, we're doing the best we can.

And I also told Mike that if they had hearings, they voted, that they fought to present both sides, that this was the one side that they would have been presenting.

I think just a little of that would be good.

for him to hear.

And he should hear it directly from you.

If you could say that we're going to see to it that this thing is done or not.

The president has refused to play politics in this damn thing.

You have refused to play politics.

But we haven't.

But as you know, Mel, I think if you could tell him, you could say that we haven't talked and that we can't personally control all some of our partisans.

We got a few, but that we, that we had, uh, come on in.

Come on in, Henry.

All right.

You ready to play, Henry?

Oh, yes.

All right.

Uh, I just talked to that big guy.

Oh, you talked to him?

Oh, good.

Good, good.

Did you call him?

Did you call him, Russell?

No, I called him.

Oh, good.

Henry's left for Paris.

Well, I'm going to do it.

Yeah.

All right.

He says he's spent so much, too, that he's going to stop shuttling.

Really?

Did he say that?

He's going to want to start shouting.

Yeah.

Well, this is fine.

You go ahead and handle your call.

I've asked Mel to just call him and say that we are, what the policy of the Defense Department has been and will be, and we're going to do the best we can to fight this, but the damn thing is out of our hands pretty much.

But I think it's just, do you think he'll appreciate that with Mel?

His own secretaries of defense, both of them are wrapped up.

Both of them.

Okay, well, we'll do that.

But before you go, I have a specific question for you.

Well, you are now here.

Yeah, well, I can get... All right.

Well, come in here just a second, because he is not here.

Sit down, John.

Can you fill in...

We're not going to have a hearing on this war.

We're not going to have that bell.

It's not going to...

I want that clearly understood about this point.

This is about these papers.

This is not a...

It's not to be a hearing on the conduct of the war...

Now that we're getting out, they got us in.

And it's by God and the people that got us in to be trusted.

Now to give us advice as to how to get out.

I'm going to make that point a couple times.

That's something that I guess Jerry Ford, Hugh Scott can help with in terms of defining the objectives of the...

I don't want to be the principal witness out there.

I haven't had any of these other attitudes in my life.

Well, of course, that's something we don't have any control over down here, as you know.

But the statement is kind of a don't communicate.

Manseil approved that.

He has a copy of it.

Now, this guy's got stuff to leave once we get up there.

The stuff on our coat is completely broken.

There's about four different places in those reports that are very sensitive.

The tracks on the negotiation are sensitive, too, but they're not as sensitive because we've got some of those tracks still open.

But the cold break is not our fault because our fault can't be compromised by what you understand that we've got.

This is a Vietnamese and some of that other stuff.

Yeah.

That guy like three.

About three, yeah.

Right.

I talked to Mansfield about logistically how one would handle this and told him that he should get in touch with you or you would get in touch with him about where it could be deposited.

And I told him about our conversation where you said there were these two areas and one was better than the other.

He said, I'm not so sure that it would be a good idea to put it in the custody of either one of those committees.

He said, maybe Albert and Scott Ford and I can work out some other way of storing this stuff.

And I said, well, you and the secretary-elect are going to work that out.

Okay.

Now, this is okay with John.

I mean, his name is probably special.

Yeah.

No, he's important.

He had some questions.

Yeah.

No, he's okay on that.

Okay.

That's just a copy of that, I guess.

Yeah.

But let me keep the original in my comments for me, because I don't know.

Oh, I didn't hear you.

I'm sorry.

Okay.

Well, now it's all right to meet with, what about this meeting with Albert?

Albert?

Manfield.

I didn't call Albert.

No, that was discussed this morning.

And Manfield said, well, I'd like to have a meeting with Albert first.

to be able to set the pattern up there.

So I called the speaker and told him, he said, that was fine.

He said, logistically, how is this going to work?

And I said, well, that's something that, after you've had your meeting with Mansfield, that I think will work out with Secretary of Defense.

Well, I have all the copies now.

I've got the headsets now.

I've picked up these.

I haven't picked them up yet.

I don't think you can get Johnson's stuff to be particularly dramatic.

Well, I can't make sense of it.

I don't know.

I really can't make sense of it.

I know.

We told you.

That's smart.

We told you.

Did you cover it up?

I covered it up.

We've talked a little about logistics and so on.

Well, how does the thing know?

How is it lined up?

Is Mansfield clear?

Mansfield's clear.

Albert's clear.

Mansfield knows.

Ford's not available.

Scott's gone.

Do you represent Ford?

He speaks for Ford.

I've got a call in for Ford.

He was off with his wife someplace this morning.

It'll be available at noon.

And I'll give him a check on this.

Well, call in.

Mel, would you then vouch for Ford and say that you approve this procedure?

Sure.

And tell Jerry that if you were here and it's all right for him, maybe you could do this.

Maybe you ought to, maybe Mel could call us.

How would that sound?

I'm going to do it right now.

Okay, fine.

All right, you cover it on the Republican side so they know we tried to cover it.

Now, let me say this, it should essentially cover it.

On this announcement.

We're all cognizant that he didn't know about it.

He's fought our battle.

All right.

You should mail a comment.

Yes.

You call.

You tell him that the President wants to know and I don't.

Incidentally, I recommend a dissent due to Mansfield.

The dissent is to be made the Chairman of the Select Committee.

I said you can't be pulled by me as the Chairman of the Committee.

And he says, yeah, I think Bill knows that.

I said, that's just because the fact that he's not on the other, that he leans the other way means he's going to be more fair, he's responsible, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

I don't know.

You have to hold his hand almost every day.

I don't.

He's been on the floor for seven weeks with the draft bill.

He might very well decline it if it were awkward to him because he's complaining about it.

He really is a wussy right now.

I know, you've done a wonderful job.

Now, the other thing is, if I were to learn to give Johnson a call this afternoon, I may have gotten a chance to just say that you know that Henry had called him this morning to, because Henry just had a brief talk with him just to tell him that apparently that this man's guilty.

But that you call him and say, now look, you want to follow up on the other calls and say, uh,

We just span it firm.

We're having a hell of a time.

I'll give him a little of that.

I think it's important for him to understand that the tactic here is to keep this away from the kooks in the Congress.

That's right.

Tell him that we're trying to get it to responsible people.

Keep it away from them.

From none of us.

We've had requests from the McGoverns and the Siningens and the McCloskeys and all the rest of them.

and that I have put the responsibility directly on the leadership for these documents.

And I've told them that I've had an assurance that we're going to have a responsible committee.

Now, uh, and incidentally that I, that, uh, I said not full-blown to the chairman.

I'm telling him that.

All right.

And Ron will be going with us at 11.

So not a there abouts.

A little late this time.

Now, what about this idea, John, because we've got to sort of keep this from that.

Now, I don't want even Mel or Bill to go down and testify before any damn select committee on the conduct of the war.

How do we get, how do we partially, we'll have to refuse that thing.

That's about the only way we can stop it, because they'll want to turn into, well, what's going on now?

And that's the way they'll want to turn, oh, that involves current operations.

I would think the sooner we start making that clear to them, the better.

They'll start talking about operations because it would have been American men and so forth and so on.

And plans that we have in control.

I'm just going to try to stand on the fact that I'm not interested in getting into the debate on the path.

That's good.

This is, frankly, I could say this is really a debate between people who were in the two previous administrations.

It does not involve us.

We were not here.

We had nothing to do with it.

And let them watch their inter-division public if they want.

And we've got that in here.

It says, documents relate to the Johnson-Kennedy period.

The president pointed out he is not in a position to vouch for the accuracy or completeness of the documents.

And we keep trying to push it back.

They're not trying to cheat.

I know they are.

They can't vote with the House.

Yeah, Nancy will raise that this morning.

She said, you know, that Symington said committees were unhappy about the laws and so on.

You see, when I was up here last week, they asked me a series of questions on what Symington did about when I'd be ready to turn over the classified documents to the committee.

that i've refused for 24 months because they wanted to start their hearing on what corrections we made based on these documents enjoy the hell what corrections you made rather than 300 when we came in the number of americans is 200 000 rather than 550 000 what the hell else do they want is that a that's a correction

That's what we should do.

What does it say?

That's right.

What do you mean?

You mean they want to find out what went on in Canberra?

Well, one of the things we want to do is to press on box law.

You've made these available to us.

Now, we'd like to... No, I've got something better for you.

Now, you put this up.

I did this in Colorado.

The Cuban Missile Confrontation.

the Bay of Bigs, the Pearl Harbor classified documents, those that have not yet been made available, and the Korean War documents.

All of these have been requested by various newspaper reporters, understand?

And of course, these are matters that just will have to be considered from time to time.

They want to open this box

Mountains haul their oars every damn one.

And there isn't a thing in there that involves any of us.

So let's let them have it.

Now, this could turn into a political fuss, although we didn't plan it this way.

It can't turn that way.

Yeah.

Mel, I'll tell you what I want you to do.

You're really the guy that we've got to count on to handle this thing.

If you and John would work closely in tandem, because John will get the heat from...

uh, all the, uh, from SAGE and from, uh, the, the, the Conkers and, uh, all the rest of them.

I just don't let them play the White House against you.

No, I know that.

And don't, or, and against SAGE.

Now, the SAGE people will want to leave and give them out too much.

Now, that would be, must do it.

I think playing the hard line is good.

Give them, give them a hell of a lot of crap.

believe they can stand and fight like a tiger or anything, and to the extent that you can get across with that Admiral Gaylord, or what's his name, and all of that, I said, listen, that is terrific stuff, that it both breaks the code because of information.

Well, of course, we've got to be careful how we talk about that.

I can do that privately, maybe with a few people, but you've got to be awful careful about that.

But all right, then you can simply say this.

Make a statement to the effect that this compromises our intelligence-gathering information, and

And it would seriously jeopardize American forces.

But we've gone through those factors and really only about 2% of the stuff passed.

Okay, have fun.

We'll see you Monday night.

What's your best guess on time for the 25th of McDonald's?

Well, the class can never do that.

Well, we can do that awful fast, but I didn't want to do it too fast, sir.

Now, but I mean, just... Well, then, when Rachel...

I mean, David's in court 45 days, and I always have to go on.

Let me say this.

What are you doing?

I do it fast.

I'd give it to them just as soon as the committee is ready.

I don't want them to think we're holding it up.

But I'm not going to be ready.

We're giving it to the committee every time.

No, no, no.

But as far as the declassification is concerned, give them enough to start their hearings within three weeks if you can.

We can get our job done in a very rapid... Now, the next issue that I...

I think you should say, I'd like, I think it would be very well if you should say we have already, we're already ready with half of the doctrines or something like that.

What do you think, John?

Well, maybe we better lock some people up right now.

You can say that we're probably going to go up over there.

Perhaps this is underway after it's been structured.

And we're hopefully, we're working on it.

That's right.

I think it's a better time.