Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Pentagon Papers

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Leave that unannounced.

I could just refer to it.

I'll talk to this.

I'll say it's further discussion.

Keep it on that basis.

Oh, no, no.

Good.

Good play.

10 o'clock next decision to be handed down.

10 o'clock.

Oh, well, that's crazy.

They have no idea.

I understand that the Supreme Court at that time.

It is very likely, Bob, to be the first decision.

When I say it's no idea, it's somebody who's talking to me who doesn't know anything about the court.

The court generally, it may do nothing today.

It may do nothing for three weeks from now.

But the likelihood is that the court, if it is going to move,

And the likelihood is that they will announce this decision without releasing the opinions.

Because they've got to work on writing.

We don't give a goddamn about rankings, right?

That's my point, right?

The decision may well be announced.

That's right.

That is the lack of.

I do always announce the fakers first.

That's the whole point.

You know, those bastards are glib, but mostly conscious.

You should see how your fidget gets out of the way today, Mr.

Colonel.

They might be a bit of a hit.

I'd certainly sure be a minority if they didn't have those bastards on my right.

I don't know what the question is.

I think the margin is sort of varied amongst the Democrats.

You see, our guys are not.

I mean, as long as Albert and Bob says they're going to lose it, he's afraid we're going to lose.

Well, at least we necessarily did as much.

But I put it right to him.

I said, look, if we lose, I said, I lied to all of us.

I talked to Bruce last night.

I mean, he can't do it.

I mean, he's gone on.

But he says that if this passes, it could well jeopardize everything.

They think they'll pass it.

They're concerned that we won't lose, but they are concerned that we will lose.

We will win it by a lesser margin.

We will.

That's equal.

Oh, of course.

They've done a hell of a good job.

For instance, they've got a coiling that's going to introduce the instruction.

Our guys are doing most of the

So our guys are saying it's the same thing as Nancy Whitman.

They're purposely confusing us.

They're not willing to introduce it to make it look like it's the same thing as Nancy Whitman.

They voted against it.

Their whole strategy is to hang on to as much of our side of Nancy Whitman as they can.

That's right.

They will lose some.

The other problem we've got is on some people like Dean and Johnny Burns, who says, who the hell cares?

All it is is a sense of the Senate resolution.

And we've got to get the draft bill through.

The draft is too important.

Now, what they're trying to point out to them is it isn't only a sense of the Senate resolution.

It's a policy.

It's a policy of the government.

Right.

And the president won't be able to sign it.

And you'll kill the draft.

when they're doing the best they can.

But they'll carry the house, they think, when they start, because they will come up today.

They will be loaded today.

They only have an hour to pay.

Then what will happen is when they go to conference, our intent will be to put our language into the men's field thing in conference about the regional champs and all that.

Then it appears certain there will be a Senate filibuster

on the draft bill right through to the August recess, which means we won't have a draft bill and won't have the authority to induct draftees after this week.

So we'll stop inducting draftees.

McGregor says that by mid-September, when they come back from the August recess, we will for sure get a fixing and fund cutoff in both houses.

So this is just good.

We're fighting a stalling action, a holding action now that will carry us through the August recess throughout the summer.

I know.

I had to tell Henry that yesterday.

Now Henry's in this one.

Didn't he get the point?

That's good.

We'll have to put it right on that ground.

They will come on there.

He said it was a blind thing.

He said by mid-September there will be a fixed date set and a month cutoff.

Thank you.

But basically, I think he buys the holes and pieces that we've got.

Short term, we may have some problems, but they aren't big enough or continuing.

They're not going to lock in.

We're better off for the long term letting them run.

Albert says that the adults don't have any interest in the house.

And they'd love to.

They'd love to have somebody stand right here and be good enough to be their husband.

It's better to get all the candidates there.

Yeah, that's the first part of it.

Senator Arsenault.

Robert had his voice down.

That's just the... You're not running.

You're just running through the receiver.

You know, it doesn't have to be knowledge too much for the Democratic side.

This is a good chance for him to get a few cars.

Careful this way, got a friendly one.

Down four.

Well, taking into account time started over this last month, do you think the documentary world is desperate?

I mean, I am conducting policy negotiations with the Russians.

Actually, you already have heard about what's happening on China.

He says, yes, that's terribly important, terribly important.

And I said, we're in the field of Vietnam.

I can't promise that anything's happening.

On the other hand, Bruce is continuing the negotiation.

And he told me, and I said, I talked to him this week, and he said that this would

Mr. President, incidentally, Mr. McGregor told us at the staff meeting this morning that if the House goes with us, there's going to be a filibuster all of July.

That'd be great for us.

If in the middle of the filibuster we draft the Chinese and announce the end of the Chinese, the end of combat and the Russian summit, I think we'd be

Bob was just telling me that McGregor had said this morning, and I should tell him from Hubbard's back that this is the case.

He'll be with us on this phone only because I've had him.

He's sick.

He's got the shakes.

Well, he disappeared over the weekend.

His office was... And then what happened?

He told me that he had a flu.

He had the flu.

He told us he had the chest laryngitis.

And then...

I think it's something else.

I think he's got a dry-out problem.

I just feel that he can't take the moves.

Well, be that as it may, what McGregor says, though, with regard to the certainty of a September 15th cutoff of funds is absolutely

And then on September the 15th, they cut off the funds.

And then we announced that we're going to negotiate.

Oh, no, that way it can't happen.

Mr. President, I have the instinct that if we are bold enough and nervy enough, that when you're in a corner and you act with great boldness, the other guy thinks you've got some tricks up your sleeve.

True, true.

I understand that.

That's not going to affect the Congress in September.

I don't know, but by September we'll have the, by September we'll know.

If this thing, I'm counting, we have one big play left, the way I look at it.

And that's why I'm counting on the shock effect of, say, making an announcement of July 15th in China, followed by an end of troopers, of combat, say, around 25th, a Russian summit early in August,

and then spent all of August getting Vietnam wrapped up.

We'll be out of the negotiating business, and we have to act unilaterally, and I agree that we cannot go through a congressional session dying to death of a thousand cuts.

The point is, you see, the reason McGregor is so right on this, as I can tell you now, is he told me this morning he couldn't hold the line in August.

He's not going to hold this today.

But he says when our boys get back, after July, when they're there at home during August, they're going to

to overcome.

Now, he just put it right on the line to me, Henry.

So we, you know what I mean?

You don't, we don't, we are not dealing here with rational people anymore.

Here, Albert's a goddamn hawk.

By most standards, he doesn't get your pieces.

He says, I don't get anything I'm opposed to the war, but he says, I just can't let him tell me about John Watts.

He joined us, saw him in Austin.

John Watts, one of my close friends, Democrat, deserted.

Now, the point is,

by what we've already done, the stolen announcement, the Chinese initiative and the rest, the Hong Kong diplomacy, all that infectious and viciousness has no effect on this Congress.

None.

They're going to look with a narrow, narrow view, but we're not.

There it is.

Well, they're looking with a narrow view.

I think, incidentally, they told a lot of people why.

Because they never told us that we're going to settle it within a year.

What we're getting in the Congress is a combination of two things.

those people that are making the war issue, it'll be Nixon's peace issue instead of the war issue.

you know, when.

Oh, no, I have no illusions.

That's the way it's going to go.

The Congress is going to move in that direction.

But I think the way I look at it, if we can present a tough front for the next six weeks, we've brought these guys a hell of a long

The currency is five and then turn.

services in the United States if we had put the right to them.

the text here.

I mean, for example, all the parties should make a ceasefire.

There should be international support.

I think, Mr. President, if we get to July 15, make a Chinese announcement.

So we've been playing something with those people.

I think on this one we will take the vitamins at prime time, nine o'clock at most.

And you should go on television, of course.

That's right, for vitamins.

Absolutely.

But I have to be given the exact hour so that they can synchronize it.

Well, the exact hour is summertime.

Nine o'clock isn't the best time, or 10.30 would be.

I don't care.

Well, you have to just tell me what time.

They don't have an evening off.

But we had great ambassadors of the past.

I've seen their dispatches.

I've seen the ones at Bullard Road.

And I've seen the ones at Beale Grove Road.

I don't know anybody else who signed up for that.

This is why I had to go and be so tough.

I was setting up this secret negotiation and I had to give them assurances.

David Bruce, who's been in diplomacy for 40 years, chums up and down like a schoolboy and says that it's the greatest event in his whole diplomatic history.

And so...

He doesn't know what it is.

Well, I had to get Bruce's China... Well, I told Bruce to find out whether he'd be willing to go.

It's all right.

And he said, well, congratulate the President.

You're going to remember.

Three weeks of wine, that's about all there was in there.

There's no reason to have Bruce go over and take off and hit a crane.

Then we will make an announcement that I am going in November.

It must not be Oswego or Cannon.

The Chinese are clever, you know what that means.

congressmen and senators, hell, they don't know anything about China and Russia.

It'll solve them down a little while.

I agree that going to China will help, but the fact that we announced we're going to China is not going to stop them cutting off funds for Vietnam in September.

They're going to cut them off.

I think it will stop it myself.

It may shake them up for a while.

Bye-bye.

Maybe the biggest sensitive award.

Yes, I think it's the future orientation of the world and of this country.

It is the...

I had absolutely no feel for Joe and I, Mr. President.

I just don't know.

So far, you have to hand it to them.

They have played the game beautifully.

They must have a thousand applications.

Why should we move?

We know Taiwan is going to get mad.

So is there going to get mad, too?

What do we get out of it?

Mr. President, the 10 o'clock group is all settled.

Your calendar reflects the meetings being in the cabinet.

However, since until 11, if you said what we should have right in here,

But if you want, man.

Booth and Harness.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Pentagon Papers

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on June 28, 1971

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