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Now this is going to make a mark in the culture, meaning that what will happen is the girl

You have to do it that way because kissing you can't handle a problem.

Therefore, you have to do both.

I've got to get married, and I've got to kiss you, which is better than you do them all.

I've heard of them pick up on it, too.

I don't know what I should do.

I don't think he has time.

I'm not sure he's got time.

But he picked up.

He said, let's call you.

He said, you can talk to me.

I said, well, they're better than I said.

He said, put them right out there.

I think you'll see a very salutary effect, not just in this context, but in this.

And I think they like to hear it really.

Balls?

Yeah.

Jack Kemp, Pat, is going to go around with his fellow McCloskey on the David Cross show tomorrow night.

And I asked him, what is it about?

He said, it's just about the Nixon, about the presidency and all that sort of thing.

And it looks like, I thought that our shot ranged, that we gave him assistance, but apparently, I said, where are you going to go?

Well, he said, he's gone over to

Well, nobody really, nobody really can give the dope better than you could.

You know, could you, could you?

You know, if you could sort of, if you've got time, you could do something today.

The researcher, remember, you might get a kind of call, first of all.

He said they're going to be our head-to-head on this show.

He was with him on another show in New York and didn't have the information that he needed on the Cabot show.

He makes a very good impression, but he's got to get the information, you know.

What do you really mean you're talking about stuff like you give to me?

And, you know, here's McCloskey screaming around some ways.

For example, you've got some McCloskey weaknesses I'm sure that you can put in, you know.

Maybe you've made up a summary of that, haven't you, if you'd have some stuff on McCloskey?

Yeah, yeah.

And you can check any place in the administration that you can to see what the, maybe Colson's got some stuff on him.

Would you do that?

But if you take the procedure, take the responsibility on it, would you please call Markovsky?

I mean, call Ken.

Tell him now you're going to prepare some stuff.

Just get him some good, remember, understand he's not a great Italian, but he's a bright, tough guy.

Just get him some good, nutsy stuff that he can go on, where he can just lay off Markovsky about some of his silly stuff.

Okay.

All right.

You ought to carry this assignment.

You'll say some of the things I can't.

Okay.

I want you to set up a different procedure there.

We cannot put balls like Kim on programs with balls like Kosti and have him go around to solve them.

He ran to him and I think he went over to solve an assistant secretary of defense.

I mean, we've got to get him help off.

No, I mean, you're just absolutely wrong.

Whenever we've got anybody that we're putting on that follow-up, it feels the same.

And somebody has got to take the responsibility.

Get that goddamn research out there, over there.

You can't put it all on one candidate, too.

That's why I say get some other people.

We've got some other people to put together.

It's got to stand up to it.

Of course, it's got some guys working on it.

This is not the way to do it.

He's going on for an hour, an hour and a half.

He could be more than an hour, an hour and a half with McCloskey on David Frost.

Well, goddamn it, let's give him a, you know, a little, a short month.

Well, he isn't complaining.

He thinks he's prepared.

He's not prepared at all.

He doesn't know the, he doesn't know about Laos.

He brings up that stuff.

I bet he could argue with some Vietnam.

I think he should get off the army.

You can't do that, please.

You can't.

I learned that last Sunday.

The kind of thing I think would be most helpful to him is the kind of talking paper that you give to me before a press conference where you say, the way you look at it, here's what McCloskey's doing, and here's the kind of tone he should have, here's some of the points that he should make, you know, three or four points.

You know what I mean?

Sort of think it through that way, Pat, rather than give it a great bundle of material.

Fair enough.

You sort of put yourself in his spot and say, here's what I want to do.

I've got an issue with the justice system.

I have a good job.

Okay.

I understand my political philosophy.

I don't want anybody to have a problem.

Now, we work our ass off around here, you know, to get other people prepared.

And we can't put a congressman up against a certain bitch like that.

And we're going to use him as a servant.

I want him prepared.

Are we?

I'm amazed that he isn't.

He didn't complain about it.

Maybe that it doesn't matter.

He's just trying to stop himself out of advising.

You can't advise him about having him on the cross.

You can tell him a little about the laws.

He shouldn't have to go digging out the facts.

We should give him that summary form.

Absolutely.

You got to talk to Dave about that.

I talked about it with Gene last night.

He was getting a real-life smile.

I said, he said, let's get prepared for next week.

He said, that's fine.

I said, it shouldn't be a big deal.

He said, well, he's going to have a background in the press.

We were told that he wanted to have a background in the press.

I said, no, he's not going to have a background.

He said, no, not at all.

I said, you should see the place that people go.

It's not fair to have background knowledge of the press.

And what has happened, obviously, is that the wires going out to these various places say, Dr. Kissinger will have background knowledge of the press.

He didn't tell us that, not a lot.

Do you see what I mean?

Well, not only did he not tell us that, he buried, standing right there, right here, he moved over to this side of the desk, specifically said he would not, that he would not have background knowledge and he would not talk to the press.

And I don't know, you know, I've covered that a half a dozen times.

He volunteered.

I didn't ask him whether or not he was seeing the press or anything.

He just said, we're setting up a background.

He said, we understand he wants a background with the press.

He's not setting up a background.

It's particularly interesting.

Just don't do it.

He'll make the big plays.

Look, he's got a chance to make the biggest play of anybody's life.

The biggest play of anybody's life.

Once he went and ridden away with some cheating fucking back-rounder with a bunch of Indian press men and the New York Times told him, and they're a little bit sweet, down the line, and he gets by as a dresser.

Really, everybody wants to be, and everybody knows something.

They're into the happy thing.

I think you've got to get across the line.

There's going to be a great effort to break in here that we are not going to have this, we're going to have this one.

And nobody's going to talk to the press or give them background information or any of that sort of thing.

And everything, I just, I could have told some of the

Let's say there's always a barrier.

Is that the way to do it?

Or why the hell do they have to do it anyway, sir?

Why do they have to do it anyway?

They don't.

There's something we want.

You see, the point that I made, the point that I made, oh yes, wouldn't we want to delete anything?

But the point that I made here, in this gathering room, that there were instance after instance where departments were fighting with each other in public, it's true.

You see, that's why I thought that I had to broaden the subject.

Absolutely true, Bob.

The departments aren't fighting each other publicly.

They are trying to win their battles.

They're all doing it.

They're all fighting.

And that hurts us.

And what you said, they have to sit there and accept.

And they also know that they've got a bunch of disloyal people.

Yeah, they'll argue with you on that.

Oh, sure.

They've got Rogers.

No, they've got the other departments that have disloyal people.

Yeah, they have Rogers.

I mean, the foreign service is loyal.

He knows better.

Those sons of bitches are out to screw us up.

And you've got to understand the way he can't help it, but if caught it, you've got the personnel in front of us.

You know, you just won't stop.

Nobody else can.

I thought he didn't want to pick it up.

He's giving Tim Rogers publicly that he's sure he has to know what you were saying.

It may be this will not shape him.

What's going to shape him now is when we start calling him.

That's where the tough part's going to be.

We've just got to start doing it.

Just be me.

Calm.

Here it is.

We've got to have, you know, resorts and everything.

Scared to live by Jesus, huh?

The way that I handle anything on this is Hayden.

I want you to tell Hayden that's an order.

He needs to have no background.

He needs to correct that.

Correct whatever wire they turn on.

There needs to be no background in any way.

And no need to build the president.

drop the Ellsberg case.

It doesn't surprise me.

A lot of PR types would.

They all want to be dropped in this case.

You can't drop a file.

You can't let the Jews steal that stuff and get away with it, you know what I'm saying?

From what they're saying now, at least they think they can sit in with it.

It's not my point that you can't drop a case, but it is to be a liar.

You cannot do it because

But what do we do then?

What have we done then?

We pick up the guy.

We let him go.

Jesus Christ.

Do you realize that everybody in this place, of course he wasn't criticized, and he says that more of us are terribly concerned about the fact that we were making him a martyr, and we probably should really let him go now, if the court, as it probably will, will hold against us.

See?

But I'm not sure.

I'm not sure.

I said exactly what I did.

Now, you talk money, and I've definitely decided not to go to Japan.

That's the one thing I've decided not to do.

And Kissinger, hey, you've got to know that, too.

And it'll break up the other things.

He is not going.

I'm reversing that, because I just don't think that we can afford to have a weak sister in Japan at this point anyway.

We just can't.

So I want them to be looking for another ambassador to Japan and let it dig back to state.

See, that's the way to handle that.

You understand?

Hey Tanner, I said what are we going to do about the Southeast Asia Bureau?

Leave it just like it is.

Screw that.

You understand?

You don't want to put Florida in there?

Sure, but how do you do a brief?

Oh, find a place for me.

I'd get a brief in Thailand.

But I'm sure of that.

I don't think it's going to work.

Disloyal folks are going to get that picture.

He said, this lawyer just disagrees with us.

Now, I made that point, I don't think we're all in there, too.

I said, now look, some of them, some of them are just basically against us.

And there are others that want to do it because they want to make points with the press.

And I understand both.

But we cannot hold them.

That's it, Father.

It's an honest to Christ truth.

But some of them are perfectly, there are some,

of quite a few that are perfectly well-motivated, that are totally naive, who just, in our respect, who just, yeah, who do it because they think they're being helpful.

Yeah, I think they're doing the right thing.

They're putting us finished.

A thousand percent like Bob.

Finch is the best example of that.

Yeah.

A totally loyal man who goes through the things all the time.

The last thing he would ever do is, you know, he'd cut off his arm before he hurts.

But it's too damn bad to mention around so far, isn't it?

Oh, I know.

I saw they were on the list.

I was really sick.

Maybe when they get back, you can have a... Have a...

Were you able to check?

Because I've got a call on this last little lunch for me with Alex as to how that follow-up came as to if it cleared up or froze.

Yeah, what he says, there has been no...

at all.

That's not said so.

He points out it's the Somoza dinner, the Willy Brown dinner, the Catalan dinner, the Alaska lunch, each other's marching dinner, and the Alaska

And then there was another dinner, oh, well, the, uh, the, uh, Kirk Schurter made a beginning term.

Beginning term dinner.

There were five, the five most recent dinners were all dinners where the guest list was, was basically pre-prescribed.

And then in the case of two of them, there were additions made, uh, and your instructions at the last minute.

And she wasn't involved in putting those basic lists together.

And that's, it's the last five dinners.

So she has, you know, by deduction,

Yeah, she's got some basis for saying that.

That's true.

And I've just got to sit down with her.

I have not talked to her.

I have talked to Alex.

I have talked to her.

If you'd say, Rose, it's a total misunderstanding.

No change.

Let me tell you about each one of them.

Then she'll bitch like all of them do and say, why didn't we get the list out earlier?

And I'll say, because the decisions are made later.

And to that, don't put the gators on everything on planning achievements.

She's a jerk.

So put it on and stand and say, stand and say it.

is these are the financial people.

I grew up in finance because we've been having finance sinners and we do not go outside.

But it's even Alex said, for instance, on the Gideon's Army thing, that he sent that little gig I was to Rose.

He said, you know, this has been set up by

externally because it's for a particular purpose.

They're not going, it's an organizational thing.

But you'll want the list for your confidential files so that you can keep it, you know, you'll want to work these people into other parties.

And Alex leans over, and I know he does, because he's had some run-ins with Rose, leans over, if it's possible to work, way backwards to try and...

I don't blame him.

He's got the impossible job.

But nevertheless...

He understands.

Because there is one thing that she does know better than Alex, and that is, first of all, she knows.

Make this note.

When you talk to Rose and Alex, I get them in together.

I think you ought to look that way.

Maybe.

But first, I issue an order now.

Now I'm not having any social function in the White House.

for the purpose of therapy, old friends, or anything, unless I be him.

In other words, I'm just not going to do it to be a good guy.

See, I've done the captain, I've done the thing, I've finished all that, and I'm off.

Every name on every list from now on must be in a name that is put there for a political purpose.

Is that clear?

Now, with regard to the state dinners,

Just put a bare, bare veneer on to make it by far just a bare veneer, you know what I mean?

And with regard to the, I want to, on the congressional side, go to McGregor and get some new people from time to time.

But second, that we want to reward who have done good things for us on the

Now here's the other thing, and here's where you get it.

I want Henry to treat it very, very roughly.

I'm going to knock off this stuff as having son-in-law with everyone, every state senator.

It's not going to get to where Europeans are involved.

We're not going to have it.

And we're not going to have Henry second that.

Henry can come to the East.

I think it helps.

But I think really basically on the state senators, unless it's somebody like John whose wife likes to come, I think it's better to have the fat people come in after them.

Don't you know what I mean?

I think they enjoy it a lot.

I mean, it's easy to go in and work with people in this class or to the extent we have state dinners.

This is on the State Department side.

I'm not going to go down below, maybe the top to a tree.

And then have somebody else give a dinner for everybody down below them.

You see what I mean?

They make room for our people.

Never have a desk officer.

Never have our number three and so forth and so on.

Okay.

They can go to the luncheons and the embassy dinner and that kind of stuff.

Sure, sure, sure.

Don't have to have a partner.

Again, there's no comparison to say, well, we're there.

They have our staff.

After all, this is the United States of America.

All this business of...

of the two.

Governor Sutton, I know your advice, but I want you to take the hard line that we cannot, we cannot govern this country.

You really can't govern this country if a man is not prosecuted for stealing documents.

And I don't agree as far that it's all that bad.

If the case isn't going to be tried, you know what I mean, it is going to be decided before the election time.

It'll go in the chorus and it'll hang around and take months from the title song.

I just don't understand the reason that he'll be made a martyr anyway, in the sense that Woodford has to be martyred by exactly the people that he did.

He is a guy that's trying to get out of the stuff in the war.

We're prosecuting him for getting out of the stuff in the war.

That's the argument.

We can't turn that.

We're pretty inept.

The argument is he stole government documents.

Stole government documents.

That's the one thing Colston says.

We're finding that he thinks, this is the point I have to say, that finally he's got it.

I think he said three newspapers out of 3,000 countries of mine, he used that, stole government documents.

That's where he's got one cognition of it.

The only thing to say, the only thing to say, that's the count.

He's on one count.

One count under the espionage thing, but the other on the basis of

Unfortunately, they can't do it on stealing, but it's an unauthorized possession, which is, we can shift the rhetoric to steal.

And he's going through all the usual crap of this is ten years in jail worth it to get out and get us out of this war and all that kind of stuff.

Well, let him say that.

I don't think that should bother us.

Don't worry what polls or anything else on his gilder is.

We can change it.

You understand?

You've got to fight it.

This administration has got to fight one thing.

I'm not going to let this guy get away with anything.

Chuck doesn't think you should let up, does he?

Chuck?

Oh, sure.

He's horrified at the thought of this.

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I just think, I just know that you're getting, you're going to get heat from the other side.

You may get it from, you know, others who know.

Any PR guy will.

How can they know?

They read the television.

They go on the radio.

Listen to the radio.

They read the papers.

What in the Christ do you think?

And if you say they want to fight.

No, no.

No, but I bet.

It is tough, Bob.

It is tough.

We're going to fight.

And we'll have more on our side than you think.

You know, we've got more on our side than you think.

People don't trust these Eastern establishment people.

He's harder, he's a Jew, you know, and he's an arrogant election.

Now that sure is the answer to the war.

So are we.

O'Kotsky in Wisconsin, he was just, they were great to get that vote, that vote created.

McGregor, you know, they all, they're, they're... Everybody I talk to, they, they all love ice.

But McGregor's more effective on it.

Well, Tim is a team.

I don't know what it is, but Tim is a team.

Oh, I know it's a team.

I know it would not be good without Tim, because they master each other.

Tim is a team.

That's right.

I called him yesterday.

He said, well, I already picked him.

He didn't know that.

But he said, well, I said, Bill, Tim is an army.

McGregor is so enthusiastic, and he's such a fighter, and, you know, it is something.

It's a different attitude.

He doesn't feel the need to come in and, you know, beat me around the head and shoulders about all this, and have me look over all the names.

What names can I take?

That's the advantage of not having Bryce in there.

I'm so used to the Oval Office.

McGregor's not.

And to McGregor, the Oval Office is a place you don't go except when you absolutely have to.

The prices at least should go every time anything comes in on the Oval Office sequence.

Hello?

Al?

Several of your colleagues told me you made the best speech of the day yesterday.

And I just wanted to tell you, Father Goliath, I'm just to see my old friend come to bed with a, well, not just a reaper, but a country guest made my heart feel good, and I wanted to thank you for it.

300,000.

That's great.

300,000 minus zero.

That's great.

Well, now, let me tell you this.

You can be sure, Al.

I'm doing everything I can to make sure that the guy who stood with us looked good.

And I think you're going to look good.

Just give us about, give us a few months, a couple months, you know, three more months.

Right, right, I understand.

Let me throw that in the middle down here, Mr. Floyd.

I see what you mean.

And they should, you've got to get us a mic.

After all, as soon as it passes something, you've got to get us a mic.

I understand that.

But I just take some notes on this.

Have you got, do you have that written out?

Your suggestion to have it written out?

Send it by, we should send it, but wait until we send it.

You've got a messenger here?

Well, I'll send a messenger over to get it from your office, and I'll bring it down to the NSC so our guys can look it over.

Alright, fine.

Thanks a lot.

Ladies and gentlemen, it says that the Chief of the District, Nixon Doctrine, with regard to the decision of the President's program of withdrawal

Vietnam, and so forth and so on.

The Congress expresses the policy here to hold or not, that we've got to hold better than that, that a ceasefire be negotiated, that the president be released, and that they withdraw, we said.

Pretty close to looking.

They've got a compromise.

All right.

I want to look.

I want our little boys, if they will, to let Alan off.

He was the best man before him.

Before their asshole.

He said, the score is $300,000.

$300,000 to the president and nothing to the Senate.

He said, that's what it is.

He said, they talk about everything.

What have you done?

He said, what do you mean?

He brought up this man down now.

He wanted a great order, you know.

He said, perfect.

everything else, but the guy just, that's probably the result.

He's a good national.

But he's smart as hell.

Smart as hell.

And poor Gallaudet.

That's what it seems at that time.

They didn't know about the chair.

Somebody's got to stand up there and fight it.

The guy who believes will say something.

Ms. Webb, please.

I didn't want to think about it.

It would have been too easy on the White House staff.

And again, I didn't have the insurance to work.

Yeah.

Hi, Rose.

Do you happen to have a...

I just want to box those bottles of cigars from Morocco.

where you can get them all out.

I know some little notes, and those are, you can get very good people, but I, Alan Wilkoski's a great cigars lover.

He gave the best speech of the day.

There's a debate on that, depending on if it's on Vietnam.

Gary, you're all out.

I know I went there, and those, those are, a great, couldn't have been a better name for a director.

But Wilkoski, he came out to our surprise, and had great speech for us today.

Just get it, not a box of the Flamenco, just the regular White House cigars, not the Flamencos, but, you know, the kind we have.

Yeah, yeah, just send it with appreciation.

Deep appreciation.

All right.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

With regard to church and everything else on church, I want you to bring me church.

Look over the list of people who stood with us on the Senate, and the list that stood with us on the Senate.

Just those Democrats that stood with us.

Now, unless, as far as Democrats are concerned, I don't know how it can be.

We desperately need one on something or other.

With regard to Republicans, the same.

Unless it's like an asshole like Percy, or, you know, or somebody that's just going to jump ship,

if we don't do something.

Well, I'm not sure that will work, but I really want a different view on this.

What you're really saying is that you want a reason, a political justification for everything that's on the ledger.

Excuse me.

Oh, yeah.

All right.

You...

I've got to start working on the third.

Do you have to do it at the TV spot yet?

No.

Can I...

I have.

Well, I'll give you a chance.

Yes, sir.

I'll do it.

Give me that.

Cold cock on that, Bob.

I don't know.

Or do you just think I just better try to read it?

Oh, I wouldn't try to just tell him wrong, would I?

No, I will not tell him wrong.

Okay.

But do you think I should try to just add another thing?

Wait.

I can wait.

And I'm satisfied with the players.

I guess I'll make their game a little bit better after winning those games.

I can if I've got the time.

Come on in.

Eric, how's it working?

Well, it doesn't matter.

I had to put this on.

It wasn't sound.

I was ready to control it.

I mean, it didn't come through very quickly, did it?

I don't really know where you think it's letting us today.

I really don't think you need to investigate it.

So, I need the March of Martyrs.

Yeah, yeah, that's... No, soon.

That's good, that's good.

Ron, I was thinking about my wall.

First of all, you've got to...

I designated it morally.

I've done it previously, but I did it in a council meeting, and I did it in the cabinet meeting.

I said to Pete, you know, I'm supposed to be in this administration, and I'm afraid to do it.

I think we've got to send him out.

I want that or Claire's, Claire, I'm sure, would, just this morning, was playing at the top of the head.

It would be well.

I would walk out.

I want to be on the national TV.

I want him on.

That would be well if I walked out and said,

Gentlemen, we have just concluded our India review of the economic policy.

The chief economic spokesman of the administration, the secretary of the treasury, he will read you on our decisions.

Secretary Pearson, may I welcome you?

My reaction is I don't think that's necessary.

Can you get it across to him?

You see, I think the secretary of the government, he cannot make a self-serving statement.

No, but I can introduce him.

We can talk about that.

Well, now, I want you to get it out in the background so I can understand this.

The president's knocked heads together in this workshop.

No implying to put it out in his sausage wedge.

He's knocked the heads together.

And as far as the administration is concerned, he has delegated his secretary of the treasuries to the chief economic spokesman of this administration.

And that's it for me.

The other is in Biden.

Secretary of Commerce advises and Secretary of Labor advises and the Secretary of the Treasury advises and the Secretary of Agriculture advises and the Secretary of the Treasury presides and decimates the chief economic spokesman of this administration.

Sure.

Can you get that across here?

I think that's fine.

You don't think I should walk?

No, I can't walk.

I do not agree with what's wrong, but I do think that if you want to put it out now, that somebody... Oh, yes.

Oh, they're wrong.

It's a question of not walking.

It's got to be put out there.

It's got to go out there.

It will be done.

I want it out talking strong.

Yes, sir.

I mean, you know those waiters where I say put some... Yeah, because that's...

We've had these meetings so far, and some of you get the impression, too, you know, I mean, if they're data and some confusion, I mean, there are numbers of people who think that the man who was the chief economic spokesperson for this administration and, frankly, the president's chief economic advisor,

the secretary of the church is the first eye over the capital council policy let's get down to who do we have doing it now okay now wait we've got our answer you have the vice president

I don't want to say he doesn't owe anybody.

He's just got to admit it doesn't.

Nobody is a jester.

I know they have a lot of other stuff happening.

But I understand.

He is not a jester.

And will participate in, is participating.

He's participating in all budget decisions.

In addition to tax decisions, which he did.

But all budget decisions.

All wage price decisions, etc.

That the Secretary of the Treasury and the President's

That's the negative end to the issue.

He is, uh, just taking notice.

And we can change the economics, folks.

You get that?

Yes, sir.

I can verge it on the campaign that you made this morning, and also I can point to the fact that you're in California.

And they did ask Secretary to go to California to, uh, to, uh, to set up the meeting and so forth.

All right.

Now, that, that launches.

Now, what are we setting?

What are we, what are we, you're not just saying it's a good idea.

It seems to me, Senator, that over the past weeks, you've conferred with a great many people that are involved in the Council of Economic Advisers the competency in and out of the government.

This, I think, is where you're focused.

And you've come to the point that in oil, the monetary supply, what are you doing?

I mean everybody thinks it's going to be above that.

They're the ones who said that.

We don't have to pin one precisely, but we ought to know it's above .

and just say this is both monetary and fiscal stimulus.

Everybody agrees that it takes time for these two factors to work in economy this complex and this large.

And there are problems sometimes with six-month pay.

That being true, and given other factors, such as the number of total employees today, the increase in housing, the increase in retail sales, now I've got a whole bunch of them.

And the fact that as far as unemployment, we're dealing with a $2,200,000

Vietnam down here in defense to begin with and point out that the state down here over to the military and personnel relief.

So we're only going to be down to 6.25.

I can say that the fact that this economy is doing as well as it is considering the fact that they're winding down a war and reducing defenses is remarkable.

This economy is so strong to approximately 400 million.

and, uh, 50,000, uh, civilian, uh, I mean, the detention officers, because of the downturn in the detention procurement, that you lost, uh, about 600,000 military personnel that had been released into service, and you lost 175,000 civilians out of the detention department, and this was approximately a May 2, uh, without the record.

Yeah, without the record.

Which is half of the unemployed.

Which is half of the unemployed since 1969.

That's right.

And then just go right on and make the case that we're not all going to come out and just say, you know, you can't completely see it.

You can't completely see it.

This analyst or that analyst say, well, we're not sure.

We're going to wait.

We're going to see.

Well, I'm the president.

I'm going to make it abundantly clear that there's not any decision.

That's not what he's going to do.

Number one, he's not going to create a wage pricing report.

Number two, he's not going to impose mandatory wage and price controls.

Number three, there's not going to be a message sent to the deal to cut taxes.

Cut taxes, correct.

And, uh...

Correct.

They're going to have to put it off their trade.

There's not going to be any increase in spending.

As a matter of fact, we're going to hold the line.

Hold the... We are trying to hold the line against spending, which would not...

Which would...

Which would be...

Which would not affect jobs.

You're not sending out the veto today.

Yes, sir.

Yeah, we have to.

Well, if you don't get the veto, you've got to get...

Well, this is what we were talking about.

We're going, we have a message.

You can just say, as the President speaks to a message, we'll, later today, indicate that the, as far as fiscal, the fiscal policy is already expansionary.

And as far as the veto message varies, we are not going to go beyond.

We are not going to go to spending.

We're not going to have spending.

would not reduce unemployment, but would create more inflation.

We're not going to fight back on dispensing, which would not really meaningfully affect our unemployment, but which would increase our inflation.

This administration has not thrown the towel into the battle against inflation.

We're going to fight inflation.

Now as far as, and I think you can say that, we're not going to go for a wage price review.

We're not going to go for wage price controls.

However, this is an activist president.

He has spoken about the problems in various instances.

He's meeting today with the Proactivity Commission.

And on individual issues, in major issues, the President believes that presidential action, rather than just words, will be affecting the President's campaign.

But I mean, you've got to send the State of the State, which I've read about, and they'll say, well, what issues do you have in mind?

That will all be abundantly clear as time goes on for the President.

But this President's not simply going to get up and talk for the sake of talking.

But he is going to move directly.

He's going to manage the labor.

Now, in major industries, how to make you responsible, curve the way the price spirals.

and the president is in every way that is consistent with the duties of the powers of the presidency to deal with that spiral.

Second, for example, we have a problem with the spiral of the government itself, and we're taking the hard look to put upward pressures on government salaries.

Do you want to add anything?

No, thank you.

That's not all right?

Sure.

I don't.

If you don't, you don't know how to do it.

No, no, it sounds fine.

These are the things we're not going to do.

Now, we have made these decisions because we have confidence that our present policy is on the right course.

It isn't a question, because the debate is not about whether the policy is working.

The question is how fast it is working.

We can make it work faster, but if it works faster, the cost of inflation would be too great.

What we are trying to do is to have this move in a way that will move this economy up, but not reach into the buyers' inflation.

And that's why we're moving in this basis.

But we're confident that our policy is working.

And then, well, are you satisfied with the inflation or anything?

No, we're never satisfied with what's happening.

It's hanging high, but it has finally stopped the rise, and it has begun to recede, and it will continue to recede.

It is our end.

Are you satisfied with the growth of the economy in terms of reducing unemployment?

We're never satisfied.

We will never be satisfied.

But we believe that we are moving on the right track in terms of we can reduce unemployment to zero and have inflation lead up all the gains.

or millions of people that are employed at the present time.

But we're not going to do that.

But this is a responsible policy that has worked with a massive, even by the most conservative estimates, $50 million increase in the GNP in this town.

And it is going to, in the second half of the year, it's the president's prediction that 1971 is a good year.

That's looking at all the figures he stands on.

The first quarter, GMT will go up.

The leading indicators have been moving up for seven straight months.

And we believe that the last half of the year that the mayor of this policy will vote for something like that.

I don't want you now to lose your credit on me.

I don't want to lose your credit on me.

But I believe this.

Tell me about it.

Well, just measure everything you look at.

Yeah.

Looks good.

I don't know.

They're going up in the rate of $32 billion.

Industrial production is up.

Within reach of the highest it's ever been in the history of this country.

It's up 167.3 on the index.

At a time when inventory is very low now.

If you go to the income, say, look at my house, my personal income is up 847.7 billion, or an annualized rate.

And in November of 69, this was a high point of the upside.

Personal income is 770.

And that's 840.

Personal income is the highest in history.

Retail sales are running at the rate of $32.3 billion a month.

At the high of November of 69, this was an up cycle.

This is what every economist believes was the height of the cycle of economic activity.

Retail sales are running at $32.3 billion.

In November of 69, at the height, it was a housing start at $1.2 billion.

That's 1.9 million, not including global health.

The Anon Farm payroll unemployment is running at a rate of 70.8 million, 70,800,000.

That's only 400,000 people below the all-time high employed in the United States.

And that's after 1,200,000 have been let out of the armed services and defense plans.

That's correct.

In other words, that 600 pick is 600,000 more, actually, if we still have the war going on.

I think that if we still, if we hadn't, if the president hadn't de-escalated this war, we would not have it on the planet.

Yes, ma'am.

Yes.

We've never been at 4% or below, except at the cost of war, and that's the high cost of war.

We are not going to have high, we're not going to have low unemployment.

the cost of the lives of American men.

The American men are not going to pay for reducing unemployment for the lives of American men.

And you're unemployed.

Among married men, this is a point we made over the weekend, in the recession of 55, we've got 3.10%.

It's now 3.3%.

But in the recession of 48, the Eisenhower recession, the married men unemployment was 4.9%.

In the Kennedy Recession in 61, it was 1.7.

Among married men, the underprivileged rates are only 3.3.

It's 1 of 10 to 1% higher than there's ever been in any recession since World War II.

So, the interest rates are down, although they're back up.

They're almost, they're approaching their high of this year, but that's some slowest backfall, much slower than it was last year.

So almost the plant equipment is not up as much as they predicted, but it's up 2.17%.

They predicted around 4%.

But it's... Well, some of that, once those inventories, they'll have to go...

I'll predict, in six months, that figure will go to four.

I predict that.

So as a job at retail sales, John, that's putting a lot of stuff in the boiler.

These retail sales are going to be...

I think June will be the biggest in four months.

I think June retail sales, when you get through the whole month, will be the biggest year in terms of the biggest, I mean, the biggest year.

You have to tax dollars.

This person is untranslated.

You have to tax dollars.

This means people have enormous increases.

Something like $19 billion, $17 billion in the first quarter, and this way $19 billion.

How about that?

there's a there's a

Well, you talk about surveys of consumer confidence.

They're only places where you've got a lack of confidence is in financial circles and political circles.

Out across this country, those that are making decisions, in other words, the buyers, retail sales, are buying with record amounts.

So by their actions, their actions are what determine confidence, and their actions determine that the American people have confidence that this economy is moving up.

People don't buy houses unless they've got confidence.

They don't buy durable goods unless they've got confidence.

They don't go to the store and have the highest retail sales unless they have confidence.

And I think that's it.

The people of this country, the only place where there's a lack of confidence in this federal conservative is that a lot of this is ginned up by basically this incestuous,

economic incestuous talk, you know.

They don't travel.

They take summer vacations unless they have confidence.

Well, anyway, that's the general... Now, I think another thing that would be, and I'm thinking now of another thing that's... Ron, I said, what does it mean, Mr. Ruhl?

Well, the President, when he appointed this armory in the Treasury...

wanted to, told him that he wanted to take the seat, you know, and he remembered that he was, that he said, now, that Prairie, that Prairie Street has had enough.

You know, that the office organized the press in President's terms, again, the, the, the, the prime responsibility as the economic spokesman for this administration.

You know, after all, they haven't given that, they haven't given it to the National Military Press.

The other thing is that, uh, what does this mean that we don't, all the secretaries, we've made, made speeches

participating in every major decision regarding the economy.

He gets the question of Arthur and he wants to see him.

Arthur Burns, right?

Well, I don't know.

I think he's... Let me say how I feel about John.

I don't know how the other hand looks like.

John.

I thought it was John Pappone.

That's not it, really.

We've got a man who's puffed up with his own conceit.

We don't believe it.

Now, I'm not going to ask you to do this, but I'm trying to hold it.

We all change our minds about that.

I think a couple of us in politics, we're held comfortable with each other.

Markerberg, at the time he made that speech, within two months of the Democratic speech, went up to that goddamn Congress.

He had just arrived in town.

He said he was for investment tax credit.

Do you remember?

He quoted that one.

He had a personal income I would consider.

Then he came back and said, well, I only suggested these are things that we could not do now that we ought to consider later.

Now, bullshit.

In fact, the way it works, you know that as well as I do.

What we have here is a man.

He sits here to tell us that, well, he's got the problem of his own credibility.

He's written all these books for 23 years.

He's gone down just five or four of these committees, and when they ask him a question, he's got to express an opinion.

He says, I told you Mr. President wouldn't break any new ground.

He said, I won't break any new ground.

He says, I made my speech at Pepperdine.

Now, the point is, it depends on which ground he's coming from.

Whether he's going to break the ground that he broke last, six months ago, or the ground he broke six months ago, or the ground he wants to break today.

That's it.

He can't have any new ground.

He's not going to avoid it.

He has covered every option.

You know, John?

He's covered it.

But you realize this, don't you?

Yes, sir.

On money supply, Harvard was fighting against it.

Then most people believe that he was too erratic.

I'm not sure he was too erratic or something.

I'm awful at explaining some of it.

I don't know.

Because I'm a low-interest great man like you.

And I'd do any goddamn thing I could do to get those rates down.

Aren't we?

To most of the nationals, and we have the same thing.

But the main thing about our group is that

The president, what about the chairman of the Fed?

Well, everybody knows he has expressed his views and speech, and there should be other things to be considered.

He recognizes that his position, his responsibility is for monetary policy, and the president respects that position.

uh as far as this particular thing is concerned rather than consider that on many other suggestions and use those disciplines and this is the course we're going to go on what do you think i think the problem of getting into an open fighting is that then becomes the news i don't want that to be the news but i'll tell you this and i'll see what you think john i remember we should shouldn't put arthur in a quiet freeze for a while

In other words, a little bit on the social function side.

Just a little.

He's very sensitive about what he's doing.

Because he sits here and tells us, basically, that he is a defendant.

And a right.

Talk about it.

He almost does.

And not only that.

And we don't have to put it in.

In fact, sitting down, you understood.

Yeah, he said, I'm going to do it.

And I just agreed.

And I got to tell you that this is happening.

He puts it all without that memorandum.

So the history goes on.

Okay.

I was outside two feet out of something that I think characterizes precisely how you feel.

We got into a discussion.

I was one of the minutes out in the driveway.

And I said, well, Arthur, I can understand you're divided and loyal.

You're loyal to the President.

You're loyal to the Federal Reserve.

You're loyal to your profession.

No, he said, I'm not divided and loyal.

He said, I'm just committed.

I'm loyal only to the truth and the right.

And I said, well, that sounds like an old word.

If he only knew it.

I said, I don't know.

I said, you're a Jew.

That's the trouble with Jews.

I said, who can?

And this is, this is what he is.

Putting themselves morally and intellectually above anybody else.

You know, they read that Old Testament too well.

I agree that it's true that Americans, that's a goddamn American attitude.

But nevertheless, we've got to get along with it.

But I think we ought to freeze him.

Do you agree or not?

Or at least wait until after Wednesday.

But if he's up there, I'm just going to get him to surround.

We can move on some things.

And also, let me say this.

There are effective ways to handle that.

Rather than getting him into a big open fight, rather than building him up with what he wants, he wants to read his name in the papers.

Another way to do it is to low-key him.

What I mean is, and you're saying, I brush him off.

Well, he's one of many that we've given advice on, and I'm sure it's the best of intentions, but of course, we have all our facts.

The President's made this decision based on far broader considerations and limited considerations from which he was considerate.

or something like that.

But Barry, this is just a quick answer that, no, this is a crisis.

No, we can't break this temperament.

For all this field, there's a great deal of differing advice.

The president made the decision.

He made, he started the leasing.

And that decision is in, and that's what we're going to carry on.

I said, what are you going to do about the budget?

I just think we haven't thrown the towel in the place.

I would get in, if you will, so that people know.

I repeat again, we are going to go forward with the appreciation.

We are not going to ask the Congress for a reduction in taxes.

We are not going to have a wage price goal.

We are not going to have wage and price controls.

What we are going to do is that we're going to continue to fight inflation first by

holding down that kind of spending that would not reduce unemployment, but would increase inflation.

And the President is going to be not directly objected to that.

That kind of spending that would have a more massive, would have a much greater

increasing inflation and the effect that it might have on cities.

We're going to fight on that one.

The second thing is that we're going to fight the, where we're going to go on the, on the wage price front.

In those specific industries, the major industries, where, like construction, we're working there and we've had considerable success, I would say.

The President directly is involved in these negotiations with the construction industries that we have at least mitigated the rise there.

As far as other industries are concerned, I'm not going to be precise because we will depend on the industry and how effective

We shall use the powers of this office, including the persuasive powers of this office, to the extent that whenever we think that we'll be effective, to say that responsible decisions are required to wage prices are made.

But we're not going to set up a board, frankly because it's our view that it will not work.

It failed in 1967 and has thrown out in 1966 with the documents.

As far as our general policies are concerned, we believe this economy has been moving up.

The statistics are crystal clear for the last six months.

It will continue to move up.

The president's, and I get it again, the president's prognostication is 71 will be a good year, 72 will be a very good year.

He made that statement.

And you, having studied all the facts, are completely convinced that that is correct.

And you'll go right out and say, man, you might say, well, there's been a pretty good problem here.

The market isn't quite as high as it was, but it's over 250 points higher.

A little of that.

All right.

The other thing to tie in is the public service jobs thing, because his message refers to the support of that.

And that ties into the thing that has to do with it.

You can say where government is standing directly will reduce unemployment.

Where it will directly reduce unemployment at this time and will not have a carryover of inflation later,

We, the president, will act, we'll approve it, but we're spending, we're a congressional action, however we're all intentioned.

will have inflationary effects next year and the year after when the unemployment problem will have receded and will not deal with the problem effectively of unemployment now and the year to come.

It's sort of a pleasure to talk to him because you don't have to spell everything out.

He sits there and sums it up like a blocker.

It'll come out better.

That way he'll say it.

He'll speak it.

Great power and impact.

He's got his cards there.

I think we've got a situation where we have a little bit of the natural that some saw in it, and it was due to the great department of international .

And of course the marketing got a little too far, and that affects people psychologically.

But we've got three kids serious about these other things.

And the end result of that has got to be, I mean, we've not heard some of us better, so I'm not sure we know.

The other thing that's gonna affect

And here's where poor Henry wouldn't understand this.

Any major announcements that are optimistic on the foreign policy side, if they're big, they're very, very optimistic on this side.

And they're very, very strong on this side.

Because you've got people sitting on the sponge just waiting to still contract one time.

They get optimistic they're going to be moving on.

But I think, too, we've got to get across this fact.

We're a rough, tough president in this place.

I mean, it's not the fall of this fucking staff that we haven't got it on.

It really is.

And we've talked to them a lot.

I've done it in the NSC and I've done it around.

They just haven't gotten it across.

And part of the reason is that the staff is schizophrenic.

You've got a very sharply divided opinion in the staff.

You've got the Ray Price group and perhaps Dick Moore and perhaps

And he would be both ways, because he's smart enough not to get caught just up in one, because he's tough in some ways and not in the other.

But basically, let it get to the guy, you know, dance with his daughter and all that bullshit.

And then you've got the other group that says, you know, be tough, be strong, the rest, you know.

And, you know, the whole idea, well, you can get a camera that going out of the campaign in the 70s, that what the country really wants is that Muskie appeals because he doesn't stand for anything.

Therefore, I should appeal because I don't stand for anything.

All that difference.

All Muskie has to do is just get the Democrats.

Therefore, he should just stand for nothing.

My point?

Get the point?

Absolutely.

They don't understand that, you see.

On the other hand, I'm in this job, leading the minority party.

I've got to stand somewhere.

I've got to find some way to get those Democrats to jump the traces and come over here and become the independents.

But, you see, you really get down.

You can read all those papers that everybody wrote you after the election.

And most of them lean.

Most of them lean on.

I was the one who hoped more than anybody else.

Uh, even Buchanan got burned, you know what I mean?

I understand why.

They all got burned because of the Campaign of Seventy, and I view, I think we interpret that wrongly.

I mean, the Campaign of Seventy.

Oh, sure, the last of the goddamn broadcasts.

But the Campaign of Seventy was the result of economics.

It was not the result of our campaign.

The goddamn economy hung up a little better.

We'd have done three or four seeds better, you know.

Suppose, for example, you even carried Indiana.

You realize that would have made a hell of a difference.

It would have made a hell of a difference.

And you would have had three of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two of them and two

And I don't think we can steer it on again.

We've still got John and the rest all farting around about this darn auto safety seat belts and consumerism and how do we help where it is and so forth and so on here and there.

Just like you said the other day.

Remember, you came in to me and said that when I asked the cops to come down, I asked them, and yet when that one little Mississippi girl was killed, every member of the staff, every president, all I hear is calling, lying on the table.

Correct?

Not one thing about those four or two of the other cops, is there?

Not one.

It's just strange.

That side of it, they just... Well, it's not strange because that's where all the pressure comes from.

It's the pressure from Washington.

It's where it all comes from.

It's Georgia.

That's why I told the captain.

It was good for them to hear that.

Unfortunately, somewhere out there, I don't know if it occurred.

I don't like hard work for persons like you, I guess.

I don't like the...

I sort of like Reggie, because he's a good soldier when you take him.

And Vicki Brunson, damn, they hit her.

Now, both Vicki and Brunson, I think, take the president, if he's only just appears to be a good guy, well, I love the president.

And of course, having argued that, I think some of that's all right, if you understand.

Sure.

I don't think it hurts to have a little of that.

I don't want to be out here in an over.

No, you want some of it.

But the problem is, is he gets what they say, Bob.

We did enough of that with the wedding the last three years.

Now, we really did.

What other massive public relations have you noticed?

The wedding wasn't a mess.

Bob Robinson.

Do you or do you not agree?

Yes.

Well, don't you think people will remember it for a long time?

Yes.

And they're going to remember it has a glow.

It has a nice glow, and it's going to last a long time.

Now, as far as other things are concerned, I can go around and I can stand and grab my shoulders, gas, and all the rest.

I'll do all that.

I'll always do that.

And we'll keep getting it back.

The wedding isn't just a glow.

It isn't just a good, nice thing.

It has, I think, some pluses in basic sort of reaffirmation of basic American moral structure and all that kind of stuff.

The kids still get married.

Well, yeah.

And on a wholesome basis.

And their parents still love them.

Even though they're cabinet officers and big shots from around the country, they still go to the same kind of ceremony that the folks in Dubuque do when their kids get married.

And it was a little fancier, and I'm sure there were some more people, but it was still, thank God, it wasn't overly fancy, you know, because it was out there in that garden.

But it had the same kind of feeling that everybody, it was beautiful, but it was, you know, people remember their own weddings and their kids' weddings.

It ties...

Getting away from the dirty movies and hippies and all that kind of stuff.

I get to the white people.

We hear so many people.

One of those women sat by me last night.

I'm glad they were surprised.

They were all mothers to their kids.

That's all they ever did.

She says, I'm so proud of one of my boys.

He's 25 years old.

He studied in the University of Wisconsin.

Another girl is doing so well in this school.

Another kid is this, and so on and so on.

She says, I'm just as proud of her.

She must be of yours.

See, the proudness of you and yours is what comes through.

And I say, you know, it's very hard for celebrities to raise children.

I think it's a terribly hard.

It's like the preacher's daughter.

I mean, everybody says the preacher's daughter is a sex queen.

She isn't a sex queen.

The point is, it's the spotlight's on her.

Every time she goes out in the bushes, somebody knows it, whereas the daughter, the bricklayer, we can't contract.

And it's really true.

But also, as we move up in the economic class and so forth, the preacher's daughter now goes and the daughter's a celebrity to the better schools.

The better schools have a communist and a socialist

atheistic professors.

They destroy their religion and all of their values and make them hate each other and everybody else hate themselves.

That's right.

Well, I know that.

But let's come back to this business.

I agree.

He's got a point there.

I want you to agree, but I do feel it's terrible.

I feel frustrated that we haven't ever discussed that at the standard level.

I mean, what the hell do all these PR people around discuss something like that?

Here's Christ, there's, I don't think, he's one of them.

Christ, you can, Sapphire, Moore, Scal.

That's my name, Olson.

They all have, everybody will have the patience you have, the confidence you have.

Or maybe, you don't come to think of them, maybe none of their views are worth anything.

That's another great, that's something you gotta have in mind.

You've got to remember, campaigns are not won by pushing the staffs.

They're run in a manner, sort of by intuition, to feel something.

And he goes on and does it over the objections of the people in the staff who are constantly got up, frankly, that they should look at all the dangers.

Well, this will be a danger.

I don't know.

What do you think?

I think it's a combination.

Is there anything you can tell me from the input of the staff today?

Well, I agree both of them.

You've got to overrule them.

The, the, the, the best decisions he ever made were made against the objections of his boards of directors.

That's why he became a leader.

That's why you make your big jumps.

And that's, that's why you're president of the staff people, our staff people.

There are actions.

There are actions for your bar, for the bridge, for...

We have gone overboard in terms of the captain.

and so forth in terms of the goodies.

I really think we have to kind of make it real.

The goals, all this work that we go through, I just think it's, I think that's part of, that's where the soft energy just comes through.

We have to let them.

They think that there's a nice guy here.

Well, there isn't.

And they just got to get this goddamn clear through their fucking heads.

And I think we've got to be,

Tired to run that kind of stuff.

We are.

They aren't tired of looking back at the boat and the cantilever.

I don't want to go to the cantilever.

If it can be productively used and it doesn't interfere, that's fine.

But this, you know, it builds up.

The Rumsfeld theory on that is absolutely true.

The more you get, the more there is any question about that.

It is true.

You think that's true?

You want to go up there.

Congressman, Captain Officer, Sergeant Burns, it doesn't matter who it is.

Every time you do something, you want to be comfortable.

Then what you gave them as a privilege becomes a right, and then they start to convert to the privileges.

True.

And it happens in here, it happens with the staff that he, you know, sent us here.

It was a mess.

It was a mess, and he wants the best of service, and there's a home or something.

I mean, you know, it just, it all accelerates.

Very much.

Well, let me say, I think we're, I don't mean to suggest, I think the staff is going to do a better job than anybody was in credit for.

I think there are some culprits that we ought to.

They had, it was good for all of their ears, to draw on their ears, or shake on the back, or do something about the line.

And now, you have, you've got the stuff, and they're stirred, and they're just little ones.

It brings only hell about them.

It is unhelpful to have anything come out before a decision is made.

All this stuff, this one is fighting that one.

It's all, it's ridiculous.

That's a child's life.

That's crime.

Beautiful rhetoric.

I'll save it on that day.

My view is that you can use the radio to talk to the purpose of getting the leaders to talk to each other.

If you can.

Use it for both.

You're going to gain more from the strong leader.

Thank you.

so so

Dr. Stoots?

Well, what would you like?

You'd have to be better at letting them talk than I'm going to do.

And how long do you want me to stay, Absalom?

Here's a list of the people who are going to be trying to leave from the...

Labor side is quite good.

You've got Woodcock, me, I.W.

Abel, who I will tell sometime during the day that we expect him to be here on the 6th of July.

And Machinists are represented.

The business people are well represented.

I think that our commission needs, at this point, a kind of a shot in the arm from you.

in the sense that you're saying how important this whole subject is, how tied it is to the nation's future, to our ability to compete in world markets, to our ability to solve the problems of the environment if that's what people want to do, or to our ability to improve our standard of living, that this is the central ingredient.

What we have is the result of two working groups.

Each person on the commission has had a set of issue papers that are sort of boiled down on these different subjects.

We're going to discuss them today, and I hope that by the time we get through, we'll agree that we have the basis for a

major conference in the fall.

If we can't get that far, I'm inclined to just sort of drop the whole thing and forget it, the commission.

But this is the first, this is the meeting for the four working groups.

I don't quite get the point.

I'm just supposed to go ahead and say, do you boys want to find a job?

No, no, no, no, sir.

They've been meeting all these periods.

Well, this is the fourth meeting that we've had as a commission, and these smaller groups have met a number of times just as subcommittees.

And now we have these short reports that in some cases include some fairly important recommendations that go to many of the things that Pete Peterson has been talking about.

Peter, incidentally, made his presentation to the commission.

Last time.

The last time they were here, he was the luncheon talker.

Uh-huh.

Now, I think that the... A statement from you about... No, not about that.

Not about the war competition and all that stuff.

Well, America's role in the world and how it's threatened and the things that we're sort of thinking.

I've heard you talk about many times in different groups.

I don't mean a foreign policy exposition, but an exposition about our own outlook and our need to be a competitive economy.

Everybody wants to have a better standard of living.

This is the way we're going to get it.

And everybody seems to want to have the environment improved.

You can't improve the environment if you don't have the productivity to do it with.

All the things that we want come out of this.

And therefore, we consider this very important in all issues.

Well, they're cooperating, but you want to see some results.

You appointed them about a year ago for the purpose of giving you some advice.

I understand that today they've done a lot of stuff on the flight.

But they're not giving advice today.

And when they get through... Well, what I did is... Do we expect them to say something today or at the end of the day or what this is doing?

What I hope will come out at the end of the day is a decision to go forward with this larger conference.

We'd expose a larger group of people.

Where will they be at the end of the day?

They'll be right here in the cabinet room.

And if you were able to come in for a little while and listen to them, that would be great.

What time?

Probably around 2.30 p.m.

Or zero, 230, 403, like that?

Yes, listen, if it would be what?

230 or 403.

They could give you their views, which won't necessarily be a unanimous view, but on the subject of research and development, what should we be doing about that?

And there are different people who have different ideas.

If you could program something, if you could say something, could you?

When do they adjourn then, sir?

We said that the adjournment would be at 4, but if you were to come in, it would, of course, adjourn whenever you get through.

And I think we can manage to have our business more or less wrapped up by that time.

Well, it would be better for me to come in then and sort of begin, basically, than just sit away at 2.30 a.m.

Well, I think we can be ready for you to come back in at 5, 2.30, a quarter of 3, all right.

Well, what I meant is I'm just thinking how long do you want me there?

Is the state over?

No, no, I think that it shouldn't take that long.

Well, what I meant is I'm just thinking from there's an end point.

It's somewhat better, would it be better for me to come in toward the end of the meeting and stay until the board is off?

Before it gets through, sure.

That would be fine.

I think it's a better effect for me to pop in and get out.

And just say that I will join you again.

I better say I'll join you at 3.30.

And we'd like to hear your conclusions on that.

Well, of course.

Why don't you come at 2.30?

I think we should be able to drive it through by then.

And if we have some more stuff after you're there...

I can post you on it before you come in.

Well, I'm just thinking of the fact that if I come at 2.30 and walk out, I've got a couple of things I've got to do this afternoon on the college.

If I walk out, say, before the hour, an hour is as much time as you could give.

Why don't we say this?

I'll say it at 3.30.

All right.

That's good.

I should do something else.

Could I... Could I get you on one other thing totally unrelated that you want to clear?

Well, I have a chance.

It's having to do with the education appropriation.

We...

have the result of a conference committee which has an outlay over your budget of about almost $400 million, a little under $400 million.

Now, that's a compromise between the House bill, which was close to $300 million, about $270 million, and the Senate bill was well over.

The worst...

side of it is the impacted aid, which again is well over your budget, over $100 million above your budget.

The conference did knock out one of the worst features of the impacted aid.

The Senate added it on, relating it to people in public housing, and that was knocked out.

I think on the whole, the conferees feel, the House conferees, that they've done about as well as they're going to do.

Frank Bowe

who didn't sign the report, kind of, he always sort of likes to wait and see what you think and so on.

Frank Poe says he doesn't think there's any chance at all that a veto could be sustained and passed by very large margins of both bodies.

They think they did well.

They think they did pretty well.

I'm just going to put the dot down, I guess.

Unless you want to get to it.

Is it education?

Yes.

It's one of these things where if we're going to try to do it, there's a hell of a lot of work to do.

But this is not a trade we're going to take, but we'll get some others to go.