{"conversationCode":"531-004","tapeNumber":531,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-531-004","startDateTime":"1971-06-28T20:39:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-06-28T20:41:00.000Z","startDate":"28-Jun-1971","startTime":"4:39 PM","endDate":"28-Jun-1971","endTime":"4:41 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kilberg, Barbara (\"Bobbie\") (Greene); Ehrlichman, John D.; White House photographer;","description":"On June 28, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Barbara (\"Bobbie\") (Greene) Kilberg, John D. Ehrlichman, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:39 pm to 4:41 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 531-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 531-4\n\nDate: June 28, 1971\nTime: 4:39 pm - 4:41 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Barbara G. Kilberg and John D. Ehrlichman; the White House\nphotographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.\n\n     Kilberg\n          -Name\n          -Experience with White House\n          -Plans for future\n\n     Abe Fortas\n          -Wife\n\n     Hugo L. Black\n\n     Presentation of gifts by President\n\nKilberg and Ehrlichman left at 4:41 pm.","filename":["531-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:09:00","tapeEnd":"00:12:03","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kilberg, Barbara (\"Bobbie\") (Greene)","Ehrlichman, John D.","White House photographer"],"prevCode":"531-003","nextCode":"531-005","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":17.77,"text":"This used to be Bobby Green."},{"start":17.79,"end":19.47,"text":"When I saw Michael Berg on there, I said, well, it doesn't seem like that in person."},{"start":19.49,"end":21.61,"text":"Now, you know, he had a very, uh, a job, a job, and, uh, yes, you know, he had a way to catch and spin it."},{"start":21.63,"end":22.09,"text":"Now, he's operating it."},{"start":22.11,"end":24.54,"text":"So, he's operating it, and that was the one, one great success of the, uh, quite a lot of skulls operating on it."},{"start":30.25,"end":44.73,"text":"a lot of lines."},{"start":44.75,"end":45.41,"text":"Yeah, are they paying you enough?"},{"start":45.44,"end":46.62,"text":"Less than a year, but they said the experience is worth it."},{"start":46.64,"end":46.86,"text":"Oh, really?"},{"start":46.88,"end":47.22,"text":"Less than a year?"},{"start":47.24,"end":47.5,"text":"Is that true?"},{"start":47.52,"end":48.28,"text":"That would be always in the beginning."},{"start":48.3,"end":49.38,"text":"But you'll make a lot, but your ceiling is much lower."},{"start":49.4,"end":49.78,"text":"You go much higher."},{"start":49.8,"end":50.36,"text":"Depends on what you've done."},{"start":50.38,"end":50.78,"text":"But you started low."},{"start":50.8,"end":52.56,"text":"Well, I don't know what you did here, but I want you to do the things you want to do."},{"start":52.59,"end":53.02,"text":"You don't have to pay."},{"start":53.05,"end":54.29,"text":"It's not a development regulatory issue or anything like that."},{"start":54.27,"end":71.41,"text":"They wanted a Republican, they wanted a woman, and by being black, they wanted to be an interviewer."},{"start":71.43,"end":71.75,"text":"Is that right?"},{"start":71.77,"end":77.1,"text":"Well, they really wanted a Republican, they really wanted a girl, and they really wanted a black."},{"start":77.12,"end":77.86,"text":"And I was very fortunate, very lucky."},{"start":77.88,"end":79.3,"text":"You mean that Republicans are already women, aren't blacks?"},{"start":79.32,"end":79.72,"text":"Of course, sure are."},{"start":79.74,"end":79.84,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":79.86,"end":80.42,"text":"But it's a good firm."},{"start":80.44,"end":81.07,"text":"I think they'll be very good."},{"start":81.09,"end":81.21,"text":"I see."},{"start":81.23,"end":82.31,"text":"Well, I don't think they'd be well-fitted with blacks."},{"start":82.33,"end":82.69,"text":"They're very good."},{"start":83.02,"end":94.78,"text":"Sure, sure, sure."},{"start":94.8,"end":96.04,"text":"Is Forrest still there?"},{"start":96.06,"end":100.42,"text":"No, Forrest wouldn't take him back."},{"start":100.44,"end":100.82,"text":"How about his wife?"},{"start":100.84,"end":104.37,"text":"She's in the house with us."},{"start":104.39,"end":104.77,"text":"She's a sharp lady."},{"start":104.79,"end":105.17,"text":"Oh, he is?"},{"start":105.19,"end":105.83,"text":"Yes."},{"start":106.21,"end":107.41,"text":"I never, I, frankly, always had a great opportunity for him."},{"start":107.43,"end":107.59,"text":"Respect."},{"start":107.61,"end":108.43,"text":"I don't know anything about his politics."},{"start":108.45,"end":109.59,"text":"I didn't get into that."},{"start":109.61,"end":111.61,"text":"He may have had his hands in a cookie jar or whatever."},{"start":111.64,"end":112.24,"text":"I mean, the sense of appendix."},{"start":112.89,"end":121.94,"text":"The other man, he's a pretty boy."},{"start":121.96,"end":122.74,"text":"Probably the smartest man in the court."},{"start":122.76,"end":123.24,"text":"Certainly his character."},{"start":123.26,"end":123.82,"text":"Yeah, I'm sure that's right."},{"start":123.84,"end":124.16,"text":"Black is better."},{"start":124.18,"end":125.01,"text":"Black is better for me."},{"start":125.03,"end":125.25,"text":"That's all."},{"start":131.66,"end":145.62,"text":"Let's see, what you've got here today is a carpet."},{"start":145.64,"end":154.86,"text":"You put it all on before you cut it."},{"start":154.88,"end":155.14,"text":"That's right."},{"start":155.16,"end":156.06,"text":"Thank you very much, sir."},{"start":165.19,"end":166.41,"text":"How can you pray at home?"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Barbara Kilberg and John Ehrlichman to discuss Kilberg’s recent professional experiences and future career plans following her time at the White House. The conversation touched upon the challenges of navigating legal and professional sectors, including anecdotes regarding Supreme Court Justices Abe Fortas and Hugo Black. The meeting concluded with the President presenting a gift to Kilberg as she transitioned to her next professional role.","topics":["Barbara Kilberg","John Ehrlichman","Career Development","Supreme Court","Abe Fortas","Hugo Black"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T23:08:21.653Z"},"topicSlugs":["barbara-kilberg","john-ehrlichman","career-development","supreme-court","abe-fortas","hugo-black"],"audioDurationSec":173,"audioFiles":[{"file":"531-004.mp3","bytes":6932689,"durationSec":173.17,"bitrate":320266,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:51.011Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:56.546Z","transcriptGapSeconds":35,"transcriptGapShare":0.2,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/531-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/531-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/531/conversation-531-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}