{"conversationCode":"531-013","tapeNumber":531,"conversationNumber":13,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-531-013","startDateTime":"1971-06-28T20:56:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1971-06-28T21:07:00.000Z","startDate":"28-Jun-1971","startTime":"4:56 PM","endDate":"28-Jun-1971","endTime":"5:07 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On June 28, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:56 pm and 5:07 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 531-013 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":1,"chronRelease":"First Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"5-Oct-1999","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 531-13\n\nDate: June 28, 1971\nTime: Unknown between 4:56 pm and 5:07 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n      Classified material\n           -Access\n                 -The President’s instructions\n                 -Brookings Institute\n                 -Research and Development Corporation [RAND]\n           -Study\n           -Reduction of number of cleared personnel\n           -Reduction in creation\n\n           -Access\n                -Brookings\n                -Council of Foreign Relations\n                -RAND Corporation\n                -Massachusetts Institute of Technology [MIT]\n                -Reductions\n                -President’s Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board [PFIAB]\n                      -Unknown person from California\n                -State Department and Defense Department clearances\n\n[End of conversation]","filename":["531-013.mp3"],"tapeStart":"00:29:02","tapeEnd":"00:31:20","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"531-012","nextCode":"531-014","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":12.02,"text":"One thing I ordered immediately is to cut off Brookings Institution from all declassified stuff."},{"start":12.16,"end":12.82,"text":"Is that clear?"},{"start":12.84,"end":13.6,"text":"All right, get that done."},{"start":13.74,"end":16.75,"text":"I want Brookings to start with Brookings and then Rand."},{"start":16.77,"end":17.27,"text":"Just get around."},{"start":17.29,"end":18.37,"text":"I'm just going to stop."},{"start":18.39,"end":22.27,"text":"I think this study is very imperative, Henry, on a very speedy basis."},{"start":24.99,"end":26.98,"text":"I have a whole lot of study that takes a month."},{"start":27,"end":28.5,"text":"I've got to have a very little quick mind to do this."},{"start":28.52,"end":29.82,"text":"Everything's going to work, too."},{"start":30.05,"end":38.92,"text":"I'll get down, I'm going to get an arbitrary order, and I'm not going to cram around."},{"start":38.94,"end":42.89,"text":"We have pretty shitty things that I've ordered around here."},{"start":42.91,"end":45.11,"text":"Arbitrary order."},{"start":45.13,"end":49.86,"text":"If there are a thousand people that have turned us into top secret documents around the world, they're going to be reduced by 90%."},{"start":49.88,"end":50.9,"text":"Is that clear?"},{"start":50.92,"end":51,"text":"90%."},{"start":51.02,"end":53.34,"text":"And that means embassies abroad, everybody else, it will be accompanied by a directive."},{"start":55.97,"end":65.6,"text":"In other words, I want more character in what we classify so that they get it."},{"start":65.62,"end":68.69,"text":"But I am not going to have every clerk in this government reading what is really top secret."},{"start":68.71,"end":70.89,"text":"I hope you agree that this has to be done."},{"start":71.75,"end":76.23,"text":"But you can see my point."},{"start":76.25,"end":81.7,"text":"We're moving on the one side."},{"start":82.18,"end":83.38,"text":"But I really don't know."},{"start":83.4,"end":85.62,"text":"Brokings ought to be cut off."},{"start":85.69,"end":86.97,"text":"They're over there just sitting and putting their knives."},{"start":86.99,"end":87.95,"text":"You just cut them off."},{"start":87.97,"end":90.59,"text":"And we've got, Henry, we've got a perfect excuse."},{"start":90.61,"end":92.39,"text":"This is a bonanza for us."},{"start":92.41,"end":92.83,"text":"We cut off brokings."},{"start":92.85,"end":94.53,"text":"I want the council board relations cut off."},{"start":94.55,"end":95.31,"text":"All their people."},{"start":95.33,"end":97.26,"text":"And I want the grant preparation cut off."},{"start":97.28,"end":97.66,"text":"I want MIT cut off."},{"start":97.68,"end":98.62,"text":"I'm really going to get rough on this thing."},{"start":98.64,"end":100.36,"text":"I want to know every outsider that has this sort of clearance."},{"start":100.38,"end":101.3,"text":"We're going to chop them all off."},{"start":101.28,"end":109.37,"text":"You and our friends are going to come."},{"start":109.39,"end":110.57,"text":"You understand?"},{"start":110.59,"end":111.61,"text":"You can't do that."},{"start":112.39,"end":112.61,"text":"Yeah, yeah."},{"start":112.63,"end":114.13,"text":"You know, we'll do it with our friends, too, so that nobody can steal it."},{"start":114.15,"end":115.01,"text":"And let them stream."},{"start":115.03,"end":120.66,"text":"If they're on the fire, I guess we've got to leave one, but I hate to leave that screwball from California on there."},{"start":120.68,"end":121.26,"text":"He acts too much."},{"start":122.44,"end":123,"text":"But you see what I mean?"},{"start":123.02,"end":123.12,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":123.2,"end":130.33,"text":"But listen, in state and defense, the number that they can clear for cloud secret is going to go down so sharply, it'll make their heads sling."},{"start":131.22,"end":133.04,"text":"Okay."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon directs Henry Kissinger to aggressively restrict access to classified information by cutting off institutions like the Brookings Institution, RAND Corporation, and the Council on Foreign Relations. The President mandates a 90% reduction in the number of personnel cleared for top-secret documents across the government, including embassies and the Departments of State and Defense. This directive serves as a strategic move to secure sensitive information and limit external exposure to government intelligence.","topics":["Classified Information","Security Clearances","Brookings Institution","RAND Corporation","Executive Authority"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T23:09:10.609Z"},"topicSlugs":["classified-information","security-clearances","brookings-institution","rand-corporation","executive-authority"],"audioDurationSec":133,"audioFiles":[{"file":"531-013.mp3","bytes":5340264,"durationSec":133.37,"bitrate":320320,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:51.008Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:56.547Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/531-013.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/531-013","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/531/conversation-531-013","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}