Conversation 537-002

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I'm sure you realize when you have one of these lunches how they, if we did have lunches, how they shat the hell out of that egg.

Why didn't we eat it?

But wasn't that just, I mean, it's a duality all the time.

We ran from the hell of a hurry.

We had three coaches, you know.

Yeah.

And just the wife got out.

Yeah, just the wife didn't get out.

But there's no way of doing Christ here.

You know, you figure lunches and dinners and so forth.

I'm going to get brothers and get that over with.

Did you say brothers and good?

Brothers and good.

I've only got a couple minutes, so they just have to go right now.

I read all this stuff off the script.

Let's see what this is.

There will be four, actually four cameras.

The audience now will be seated on a platform which extends out from the level here to fill this space.

There will also be a camera up here, which will be used rarely, but just for large shots, perhaps during movies and films.

Three podiums, of course, are self-explanatory with your self-representative in blue.

Schedule indicates May 11, 1935 and 1945, as you said, Mark.

Uh, yes, I'd like to suggest that Mr. Blanchard apply the, uh, the nanny purse ring this time.

I think it'll be a little more effective if he brushes it on.

Okay.

10 o'clock arrival at the National Archives.

Sir, which time is too good a time?

We'll be there.

Who is it, Mr. Charlie?

She's at 1030.

Yes, sir.

All right.

I'll be there on time, but I can't stand around screwing around waiting for something.

Unless we have to do something.

All right.

Let me make a point.

Yes, sir.

We were intending to walk you through very quickly, in the room, before the audience came into the area.

Keep my room completely clean and avoided as many people as possible so we can walk you through.

Take you out of there, sir.

Do the whole thing.

Bring the audience down from the fifth floor, seat them, and then bring... All right, all right, all right.

That's the purpose.

That's fine.

Then you've got another room where we can go.

Yes, sir.

All right.

So, you know, I'll get the makeup.

Yeah.

Yes, you may have beforehand.

Right here.

Walk through.

Go to the valley.

All right.

Yes, sir.

They'll find the building.

We've got to physically move.

I got a spot.

All right.

A couple of minutes before you go.

Yes, sir.

Here and

Your holding position, off-camera position, sir, and out-of-the-audience point of view will be here behind this wall.

All right.

The speaker will be over here.

The Chief Justice will be here.

The program begins at 10.30.

The opening of the program is about 10 seconds long.

It includes America the Beautiful by the Army Chorus.

It will be staged here.

will not be on camera.

They will be talking over and down to the exterior and interior of the National Archives and setting up a program.

In the conclusion of America, Ruffles encourages the announcement and a brief version, sir, of Hail to the Chief.

This is a five-second version which allows you enough time to walk from here to the center stage podium to give you the clues to arrive there.

And for your purposes, sir, I did always listen.

Professor, make your own remarks from the podium, sir, and then introduce

Chief?

The Chief Justice, yes.

He will be set at his podium near the conclusion of your introduction to the off-cam.

At that point, there will be a shot across here to show the relationship, and then a shot of the Chief Justice at the podium, recommending, sir, that during the 3 1⁄2 to 3 minutes and 45 seconds that he speak, that you remain sure.

Oh, sure, right.

We need to get upon the conclusion of his remarks, sir, back to you,

An introduction to the speaker.

Right.

Again, be set just towards the conclusion of your introduction to him.

Right.

Good.

Once we go to the speaker, sir, you will receive a cue from over here to exit the camera, as will the Chief Justice.

You'll be off camera during this exit number.

So I'll walk off?

Yes.

And then come back on?

Well, the reason for that, sir, is the unscarred distance.

In other words, the speaker speaks for 3 minutes and 45 seconds.

Chorus sings.

Excuse me for two minutes after that, so that's five minutes and 45 seconds.

We would prefer that you move off here.

It would be an off-camera move while the camera is focusing on the speaker.

Three minutes and 45 seconds.

Immediately upon the conclusion of the speaker's remarks, the Army chorus sings, This is my country, Red.

Go ahead.

The conclusion of this is my country, sir, will be your cue and will directly back over to the center stage podium and deliver your major remarks.

Good.

At the conclusion of your major remarks, sir, there will be a cutaway shot to the flag, perhaps to the seal, or the decoration, perhaps.

And immediately as you say goodnight or whatever your closing remark will be, sir, the national anthem will be sung, acapella bar the unarming corpse.

At which point, you can exit, sir, if you wish.

You won't be on camera.

You will not be on the camera.

Now, I made this point, Mr. President, for one reason.

How can you get off?

How do you get off?

Yes, sir.

Well, this is when I finish speaking, I walk off.

Yes, sir.

But the camera doesn't show you walking off.

Is that right?

Yes, that's correct.

Yes, it does not.

Yes, it does not show the president walking off.

The reason we recommend this, sir, is it's a follow-up, and then we can discuss it.

I don't care.

If for any reason it's oppressive, the program should run short.

We have prepared the Army Corps to sustain God Bless America following the national anthem if the network should require a pad.

I would like to avoid having to have the President stand out there during a minute or two minutes of music.

Therefore, we will experience, and we will work it out with the director of the telecast, and he will cut away at something at the conclusion of your remarks to allow you to move directly off stage left.

at which point the cameras end with focus on the Army chorus, the flag, etc., as they conclude the telecast.

Now, if you prefer to remain at the podium,

during the playing of the National Anthem.

That's perfectly all right.

I was just...

But you wouldn't have...

I wouldn't be in the picture, though.

Well, yes, you would if you were out there.

It would certainly include you in the picture, but I...

I just feel that now you're...

Yes, sir, having you stand there for a minute and seven seconds... No problem.

It's not... No, no, no.

But I think it's a better picture.

I think it's better that we're off.

They've seen you for, let's say, 12 minutes before that or whatever it is.

Yes, sir.

Yeah.

It seems to me you're much better off to head off to other visuals than just the president's head.

We can't.

We don't want to stand and sing the National Anthem.

Oh, yeah.

Mark has a couple of comments, sir, on the timing that I'd like you to... Yeah.

Let me put you on that end of that.

Let me raise the point with the President, which I have not raised.

I've been fighting, bleeding, and dying for closing this with the National Anthem.

There's all kinds of arguments against it.

I just feel most old people my age remember that always the President ended with the National Anthem.

The President spoke off those with the National Anthem.

That's right.

That always ended with the National Anthem.

They're concerned.

They would rather end with God Bless America or something because it gives them more flexibility to cut in the middle of a song.

I think we should hold tight.

Say we're going to time, that you're going to time your thing.

I feel you're absolutely right, and so is Mark, Bob.

So, okay, go ahead.

We've suggested that we have very large time countdown cards for you, sir.

If you're looking to clock her, they will be 3, 2, and 1 minutes and 30 seconds.

All right.

That's OK. And Rick, I will retire you.

All right.

OK.

I'm trying to get a clock.

Just give me the 3, 2, 1, and I'll get off.

Right.

In 30 seconds.

OK. Any closing remarks?

I'm now scheduled for 12 minutes and 15 seconds.

12 minutes.

All right.

OK. We'll say 12.

Right.

Okay.

Let me make a couple of .

That's assuming that the other goal, or I've got to take it out of my time, so I'm going to have that in mind.

I'm going to be a little flexible.

Well, they're going to rehearse the others.

They're reading.

Never quite works that way, but we'll do it.

Don't worry too much about it.

Don't worry.

They're over the moon.

I'll have it better out here in a moment.

I'm glad I've seen that, frankly, because it's more dangerous.

They're being a little short and a little long, which we'll get to.

I want to talk.

We've held a firm line with the Speaker and the Chief Justice to time and re-time their copy.

They have guaranteed us that it reads at 33 minutes and 45 seconds.

But I'm of the opinion that Mark is, that if it's going to go one way or the other, it's going to go a little bit cheaper.

Therefore, we had totally negated the use of the podium clock, because that could throw the whole thing off.

It is beyond their service.

It could be running, but it doesn't really matter.

We are under the impression that there will be no applause in the rotunda at any time during any of the remarks.

I think not.

I agree.

Because the audience is too small.

We will have the audience breathe beforehand to hold their applause.

We will, however, ask them to stand, obviously, when the President enters the room.

They should stand up.

How about they're trying to sing about panning to them?

It should make a difference.

I don't know if they should have the Army Chorus singing.

I would think they would.

That would be interesting.

Just come in with a mic so that they don't pick them up.

That would be the best thing to look like.

That's what I do.

Tell them not to tell anybody.

And tell them they are trying to sing like they have so that they can pan to them.

They should be able to pan to the Secretary of State and the others also.

Right.

You can't do that at the end.

Don't think you're still on the podium.

You won't go back and shoot the podium.

It doesn't work.

I think it's a nice idea to use your audience and the audience at all times.

That's a big deal.

I think, Bob, even if the podium is shown during the playing of the ancillary anthem on a wide shot, all three podiums would be shown, you see.

And none of the three men will be at the three podiums.

I think we can assume they're either off camera, in the audience, just as we would on the opening.

They're not there on the opening.

The podiums are.

The podiums are minus first now.

I wonder if there should be three chairs for them in the audience.

Let them move.

Progress to the audience.

It would be an awkward night, I guess.

Yeah.

Right.

It's fine to have said, as you know, about the audience at the beginning of the telecast, which is fine, so it's not a shock to everybody.

I'm sorry about that delay, sir, keeping you there, but I think...

I just want to know what it's for.

I never want to be in the room before I have to be there.

Because I have these other things you need to get done.

I don't want to sit around for ten, five or ten minutes without you to do.

It's fine.

Just have a cold in your own house.

Sit there.

I don't want to sit in front of people.

It's fine.

Sure.

I can see the reality of this.

Makes sense.

Have you made the determination, sir, whether you'll be speaking from a text or... Not yet.

I've got work on tonight.

I'll see, but probably not.

I'm not going to put out a text because that leaves me more flexibility in terms of time.

Could I make one final point, then, with regards to...

I will read the first part, of course.

Yes, sir.

That's all right.

The introductions will not be read.

I'll do that.

Yes, sir.

To the Chief Justice and, of course, to the Speaker, the opening remarks will be from text.

All right.

There's one point here.

If we could be made aware of the president's closing sentence.

Oh, yeah.

I'll let you know.

We have an awkward moment.

I understand.

Sure.

I'll have that worked out.

We would like to announce the anthem to start immediately upon conclusion of the remarks to avoid a lull that should normally be filled with applause.

I guess it should.

All right.

I'll give you the closing sentence.

All set?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

See you tomorrow.

Very good.

Down there at 10 o'clock, right?

Yes, sir.

And the facility is at 930, no?

There's a memorandum into you with the full schedule, sir, and also a...

I don't want to do it.

I'd like to keep it.

I want to accelerate it just a little.

I'd rather have the make-up at 9.30 then.

And we'll leave here.

It's only a 10-minute drive, see.

It has to be done at 9.30, which takes 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 15.

Well, you can see.

We'll just time it all so I can do the make-up, get in the car, and go.

Are you ready to go?

Yes, sir.

Good.

All right.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thank you, Mark.

Thank you very much.

We'll see you tomorrow.

All right.

and you just have to go to the right, walking through it first.

You shouldn't, oh, I just, you know, I know that I don't want to be there for 15 minutes sitting in an anteroom pacing the goddamn floor.

You know what I mean?

You don't have to be bothered.

Just don't do it.

And, uh,

So some people like to be sitting around, you know, talking and yakking everybody.

I don't like it, so we work it out.

They're absolutely right that I'm in the room where I can work on myself.

Well, you shall see.

We've got to think of something.

So the 26th Amendment has to be ratified now and inserted by the president.

Well, it doesn't have to be.

The tradition is that the head of GSA signs the certification and the first witness is the president on a major constitutional amendment.

But it can be otherwise.

It can be otherwise.

As I understand it, you could sign it as a certifying and have other people witness.

One thought here, something out of it.

trying to tie it in some way.

There's a happenstance if we wanted to do it, which is the young Americans, which is a group of 500 kids, are doing a concert at Constitution Hall as Honor America Day.

They are the Honor America Day program that we have there.

And then they're leaving for a 28-day tour of Europe.

They're students from 15 to 20 years of age, which means most of them are in the 18-year-old boat crew.

group of 500, we could have that group in the east row.

We could have a signing ceremony kind of thing where you do the signing and then

Is it a group that's relatively controllable?

We think so.

And we're checking that out.

That's the episode I suppose the problem is about, unless you would want to name it.

No, we've got here, how do we not understand good young citizens?

Let me say this, I understand that if one of them does turn out to be an asshole, we can't help it.

You know, like that little kid we got with Deborah Sweet, who the hell would ever have thought that that would have been bad?

So nobody could plan it, because the value of this is there'd be too many of them to... You wouldn't let them at the press afterwards or anything like that?

No, you just have a picture of the ceremony.

You might have a...

We're checking the group now, right?

That's the first question I raised, too.

But if we were just looking for some sort of way of dramatizing the president and the amendment, they could do this.

You could sign it.

You could have one of them.

You could figure one of them as one of the witnesses, which is not a bad idea, too, to have an 18-year-old sign as one of the witnesses to the document.

And they can't have periphery, have a boy and a girl, or a boy and a girl.

And you can kind of do a spontaneous thing.

Would you sign as a periphery if you have a boy and a girl and a black?

Oh, Christ, I don't know.

Why do you have to be black?

No.

I wouldn't.

No, sir.

Boy and a girl.

There's blacks in the group, so there'll be a black there, and there'll be blacks there.

We can pick a boy and girl to sign up.

Problem is, if we're going to do them, do a family, I think we have to do it July 5th, which is Monday.

Question whether you want to get stuck down here on Monday.

I'm not sure we have to.

I mean, maybe we'll put them over to Tuesday morning and do it then, which would be better.

It'd be better for them.

Probably from a news viewpoint, too, because it's better than television.

We could do it in the afternoon, maybe.

Do it around 4.

Still be time for television.

Why do we do that at 4 o'clock?

I don't mind coming back.

If we can do it on the 6th.

Your new thing on the 6th is going to be the Steele meeting here.

And now whatever you say in Kansas City.

So you're really going to, you're pretty loaded if you, or you might be.

So it really is better to do it on the 5th.

Do you think it's worth doing?

Probably.

You might as well get the credit card.

Anything you were for that the 18-year-old wrote, you've got to live with it now.

I suppose anything that makes a little gesture for the young is good.

I don't know.

Let's try.

Well, we can do it in a simple way.

We can do it in California.

Do it with just have a couple typical Miss U.S.

Mr. U.S. Teenager type come in as witnesses to do a simple ceremony and not get all hung up with a big group.

The only reason for this is that they happen to be here for the Fourth of July and deal with the Constitutional Hall.

And they sure would want to.

That's what I thought, is you'd sign it, you'd have them sign it, and then they burst into God Bless America.

or America the Beautiful or something like that, you know, and you all stand there.

That's that.

So because of the being here and then going on this tour of Europe, you've had other singing groups in who have been on a tour of Europe or who have come back from there.

They're going on a tour of Europe.

A 28-day tour.

And that, of course, at least is kind of a historic moment.

We've got to record the goddamn thing.

Of course, they would if you signed it in California.

You just had a couple kids into your office, too, if you didn't record that.

I kind of like it.

The 5th is good, too, because that is the 4th of July celebration.

And for whoever is watching TV tonight, it won't be his thing, but whoever is watching, you're tying right into the 4th of July, Independence Day and all that.

and doing it there because it was the final stage to ratify, but there's a, Gilligan has been trying to grandstand that, which we aren't interested in doing.

And Oklahoma's been struggling.

There's been a struggle.

I think we can do more harm than good by tying it to Ohio.

We'll do something in Ohio later.

Okay, do it here.

Four o'clock.

Four o'clock's a good time.

Let me see what we, if we can.

Are they going to sing that night at Constitution Hall?

No, they sing the night before.

Will they stay over?

As I understand it, they will be staying over the 5th.

They may be leaving for Europe that day or something.

I don't know.

I would guess not.

My view is that we should go on the camp, probably go to Camp David the night, tomorrow night, after the telecast.

So I might as well come on the plane.

I was going to suggest that.

You might as well.

Well, otherwise, if you didn't, you know, you would lose the day on Sunday.

This way you can get up there.

11, 15.

I don't know what the...

I'm trying to think of where to do this.

We spent time working for a small audience.

This is going to be a big audience.

Maybe, however, it's one of those cases where the event rather than...

I think it does, but on the other hand, I think you would agree, if I had gotten up there and just read that satire, I think it would have been a bust.

Not a bust, but it won't be a bust, it's going to be a dramatic, impressive thing.

But if you would have come through and...

It's got to have something powerful.

The other ball has got a couple of nice little things at the end.

I have a story about the unfinished figures in the painting.

That's a nice, that is a good, nice little touch for everybody.

I never noticed that.

It's a good little touch.

What's really needed, though, is a few matrices involved inside of it.

Roger is saying,

around the country, and things aren't all that bad, and all that sort of thing, and a hell of a lot of people are getting sick to their goddamn stomachs in this area, which means something absolutely, that sure did.

So I get up there and word it out and say, this is a beautiful country.

Maybe it's a good thing to do that, I'm told.

That's the only reason the John Brown thing appeals to me at the end, because it's the best story I know that says that, this is a beautiful country.

And maybe it's because I directed it.

Did you have the same feeling, or did Ray or Andrews, that the Jefferson thing just shouldn't be, I mean, the slobbering over Jefferson just didn't fit in that thing?

Or maybe you didn't raise that question.

I raised it with Ray.

That's a very important point to me because, like you said, I know exactly why Sapphire did it.

It's like the fact that he's, you know, has always wanted me to put in something about Kennedy and Richard Everson, because, well, you're going to deal with the Democrats.

I think that when you make an obvious appeal to everybody, in other words, you have a whole lot of stuff about Jefferson, nothing about Washington, nothing about Adams.

And I just don't think it clicks.

Thomas Jefferson still lived.

Thomas Jefferson said this.

Thomas Jefferson did.

Jefferson did.

Jesus Christ.

Jefferson did.

It was my son.

He really didn't know him.

He really didn't want to write it, but he wanted to understand it.

Well, I didn't know him.

I didn't know him.

Let's see... What's that thing?

Which really is fascinating, but it doesn't fit this very well.

About the two dying together.

The fact that they both died on the 4th of July, 1953.

Great story.

It's an incredible story.

But the two men would hit each other with an undying passion.

And we all have them say Thomas Jefferson still lives.

And he didn't.

He died the same day.

How could they have both lived 50 years after that?

That's a double-edged sword, you know.

They'll say, why do these old farts shine even now?

And they will look at the 17-year-olds going to school for it and say,

You've got to watch those things.

Yeah.

Because these weren't 17-year-olds.

I know.

You see what I'm getting at?

They were 30.

Yeah.

This thing can cut.

Yeah.

What it reflects on us.

You don't want to build a youth code.

You don't believe it.

It doesn't need any help.

The other thing, Bobby, is that you don't believe in it.

You can't get out there.

I just can't be in it.

No, it was remarkable that those guys, as young as they were, had the vision they had.

They had a lot of vision.

He did all of these great things in his late 20s and early 30s.

Well, let me spend a little time.

I guess it's the old story.

I don't know whether you get this.

I don't know whether it's worth trying to do.

Since we have such a serious timing problem.

Sorry.

Your speeches were like your Cambodian speech.

You read it, but you knew it.

So it didn't really seem to be read in any state within the basic text.

Reading it is that it tends to come faster than, which is, this shouldn't be fast.

It ought to be slow and thoughtful.

It ought to be less words than you normally use to fill that time.

The other point is it isn't the end of the world if the thing runs over.

That's why I want the national anthem at the end, so they can't chop it short for one time.

The other, it goes into 11 o'clock, which is news time, and they can slop over into news time.

It won't hurt.

They can go off and have work feed, and they can just keep feeding.

It is important that it not go over, and it should end up on time.

But would you have told everybody I'm not going to?

Told them there's no text.

Right, right.

Right?

That's, I know it's right.

Absolutely.

There isn't a text that's worth putting out.

Well, what you said is going to be a bunch of damn clichés.

Yeah, they're going to say that.

What you said earlier, you said maybe what you say is more important than the way you say it.

I don't think it's right at all.

I don't think what you say is really very important at all.

It is the way you say it that's important.

What you say that's going to come through is simply that this is a great country and you believe in it.

Hmm.

Curious about intelligence.

Sorry.

This is the best way to come on.

Pentagon Papers.

Sure as hell is.

It's just a thin, good contract.

You and the three leaders of the government standing down there believing in the country.

It's not all bad.

It's you and the court and the Congress all standing there.

There we go.

The two justices came out right in the case, too.

Right here.

The contrast between you and the Chief Justice and the Speaker is going to be overwhelming.

Yeah, he's such a handsome guy, isn't he?

The gentleman, General Berger, just looks great.

He's handsome and he's eloquent.

How much did you hear?

Fair.

He was the National October Challenge.

Yeah, but he's lost his touch.

I don't know.

Yeah, sometimes those are really wonders.

I'm going to take it to the Senators here.

And physically, he's still unimposing.

That's his problem.

It doesn't make a difference how people look.

It makes a hell of a difference.

He doesn't have any command.

You do.

You start up to a podium, and there's something there.

And the same with Berger.

It makes a big difference.

You look like a president.

Berger walks up there.

He didn't command the place.

No, well, McCormick did.

McCormick had command.

Even when he was way beyond over the hill.

members of the Congress.

Of course, I'm not the President of the Army, but you know, he was a big man.

And Rayburn sure as hell did.

Rayburn was a commanding presence.

Look, Ford is in command.

He stepped up there.

He looks good.

Scott was not.

Scott was not in command.

There are very few singers you can look at who stand up there and command on our side.

Cooper.

He looks so much better than he sounds.

His presence, very much so.

What about LaRogers?

No, he doesn't convey it well, does he?

No, Rogers voice quavers a little and he always looks a little unsure of himself.

He could, he's got the physical maturity.

He's a good looking man.

But he's a, but he isn't a strong looking man.

And I don't know why, especially on camera he's not.

He looks a little furtive.

Laird?

Laird is strong, but not command.

Laird doesn't look furtive, strangely enough.

He looks strong, but he doesn't.

It's more loud and clear.

Elliot has command.

Yeah, he looks like Wilson.

He's not inspiring, he's dull.

But on the other hand, he's impressive.

But he is impressive.

And he does have command.

He is proud of him.

He does.

He comes on loud and clear.

Hope he doesn't at all.

You know, Blanigan was talking to me about Finch.

I mean, Rumsfeld.

Asking about the ambassadorial clerks and post-war and so forth.

I'm not a bum, I'm not a bum.

I'm not particular.

He said maybe I could talk him into it.

I said, I'm not gonna talk him into anything.

Rumsfeld wants to be an ambassador, let him say so.

But Jesus Christ, Bob, what the hell?

Can you bother him with everything there is?

He suggested Japan.

I don't think Rumsfeld could do Japan.

Because I don't think he'd be tough enough on our side, on the side of business.

He'd want to get over there, I'm afraid, and be the, you know, look at the State Department.

That's a hell of a number.

I told Flannigan, Flannigan got that good business now.

Maybe we should do more work.

What do you think?

They're thinking about trying to offer Lodge Finland.

Jesus Christ.

A lot of them came up with it because they want to get in Argentina.

They figured anything's Finland.

It's not something... No problem.

Anybody can be a pastor here.

They say he needs the money.

The lodge really ought to retire, shouldn't it?

Yep.

But I guess he needs a job.

I thought there was enough family money there that it must not be.

Apparently it is, because it's the same as on that cabin lodge side.

He doesn't have any either, does he?

Not very much, I guess.

That's some place to go.

We'll have to go over tomorrow night, meet in the audience at that day.

She should have, but she didn't want to.

It would be appropriate for her to.

I'll race with her.

It isn't a sexual act.

Not at all.

It's totally what she wants to do, but if she does want to go over it, it's perfectly appropriate to be otherwise there.

And the other hand, it will be a pay-in-the-ass that she'd ask to, in a way, she'll have to fit in here, fit around, correct?

You know, that grew because it was an enormous success, so they gave her those, you know, those decorations.

They get tears in their eyes and they talk about it.

You know, they're very emotional people.

That's what you talk about, you know, how much you love them.

That's what they want to hear.

They get poor people down there.

We talk about here, our little bastards are screaming because our

Family assistance is only going to provide $2,400 a year.

Yeah.

For God's sakes, do not.

The money I owe to you will be rich in most countries in the world.

Listen.

There's lots of good times, but I must say, they aren't rich because they don't appreciate it.

Why don't you listen to what the child is floating to that telephone call?

You know, a couple of things about it.

He deserves it, you know?

Probably, you know, something about it.

You know, listen to him.

Oh, that's huge.

Let's see if you've got any report on how they handled the dirt.

Starts down to just a big headlight on the button.

Drops to 20.6.

Counting to a second.

It has to be early in the start, and there's the present broadcast, so it has to be early.

It's a good way to go into a holiday weekend.

Every time we go over to California or something, we're always on the rise or something.

Oh, isn't that bad?

Everybody gets too goddamn excited about it.

Of course, Henry started to get excited.

He just goes up the wall there.

It's usually the foreign policy, the domestic policy.

It doesn't all matter that much, does it?

If you look back at the things we got excited about, nose, all that crap.

It doesn't matter that much.

Henry reminded me, you know, he'd written a letter

during the October demonstration.

What the hell did we write that letter about?

I don't remember.

I didn't even guess my will.

He said, I was throwing pages to the rules right and left.

What was that?

That period, the October demonstration, we were throwing pages to the rules right and left.

We were looking for everything.

Yeah.

What was it?

I wrote a letter, I wrote a letter.

to a Georgetown student.

Yeah.

That's kind of cool.

I forgot.

That came from one of our young people that defended their right to protest and explain what our decision was or something.

Yeah.

I've forgotten that.

You gotta remember one of our young people, I think, came up with that.

We had that, and we dumped poor old Hershey.

Hershey was horrible.

And we hauled Agnew in at the last minute to blast the

or somebody had written.

Yeah, we did.

I mean, that was smart, though.

That was right.

Oh, yeah.

But if I had tied the thing to the North, it would have been a Hershey event.

God, that was a sad thing for me to do.

I just don't know why I did that.

That came out, you know, everybody said he's so horribly unpopular.

Everybody was, but anyway, there was your dad, just, you know, nobody planning it.

Well, he was a part of it.

Huh?

He was a doctor for the kids.

He sure was.

But getting rid of him, he didn't make any money.

He didn't make any money.

What was it?

The thing that was on the front door was the draft.

Yeah.

And he symbolized the draft.

The thing that gave everybody out of the draft was that it was just wrong.

The point is that we were trying to play a game of actions.

That's what, and Henry's point about his statement on Tuesday is not really that he's concerned about.

He just wants to be sure it is not one such as Frank E. Mitchell of San Francisco, explaining that we're not repressing him.

And he's absolutely right.

Nothing must be put out in apologizing for explaining to us that we're being repressive.

Oh, I want to get a report on how they had a really fun appointment story.

The Huntsman was very good, yes.

Huntsman was good in sort of putting the first wire leads into perspective.

The first wire leads were good.

They talked about the six-tenths drop and so forth, but they focused too much on the statistical aberrations.

That's right.

We had not hit early in the morning with the wires, but I think it's going to play well.

It is going to play well.

Now they don't give this play a positive.

Somebody around here is dropping the ball.

You can't get a third of the event to play another sum of all the stars.

That's all I've seen on the stars.

And on the stars, Johnson's rate drops to 5.6.

How about the line?

I think it's dropping 20 years.

That's in, yes sir, that's fine.

See, it's the biggest monthly drug in 20 years.

Yes sir.

Now, we had to try to get out.

Remember I said, could we get out the monthly cash restore?

And that was, you realize the months, cash was the lowest month in six years, I guess.

A month.

I didn't play that.

Did you see it?

I haven't seen it.

Oh, I saw it.

It was fine.

We had less than a month of it than we had than we did a year ago.

That was what it was.

1925, 1925, 21.

And, uh, I didn't catch it.

It was very important.

I told Colson to write, and I would leave it for him to check and see.

Hudson does have a cell phone.

It was very effective today.

And I think it might be that at first, he was the catcher, but he was my son.

Yes, he did.

But it was a drop yesterday.

But you know, you know, it's all good.

I don't care if it was dropped to 21.

It's the month, though, that's the story.

I don't, I don't recall a monthly story.

Well, I told Scali, well, I told Colson to Scali, so let's put Scali, well, it's too late to get into that, but let's get a little stuff that's, got to broker this stuff.

And this one, let's just broker this.

Let's write our story, Ron, that's what I mean.

I wouldn't talk about that.

And I got a story I forgot about, but I'm going to keep it alive.

They're going to have quite a time, aren't they?

I'm inclined to think that there's going to be difficulty in keeping up.

Except for the positive stories, as far as we're concerned, and the Ellsberg thing.

And now Laird's statement before he left of moving on Rand is very positive.

What did he say?

Because he refers to clapping down on Rand, which are classified as jurors, running big before he left.

He said, we're moving these procedures to investigate the handling.

Well, that's, I think, very positive because people...

People want to know that the government is doing something about mishandling the classified material.

I think going after these people, it'll be a great slew of operations against Brookings.

Well, I'm not sure we're going to get any in Brookings, because I think they've already ducked it out.

They say that Brookings has had a policy all along that they will not accept classified material.

They have nobody there with them.

Of course.

And they don't operate with them.

How about the Council's patent relations?

Council D, we may be able to cut some everyone.

I'm not sure it's been moved again.

The Brookings won't take classified contracts because they've always had that policy.

But Houston must.

There's a file.

Houston's worth.

There's a file.

The problem is the guy in... See, I just called Houston to track the fact down.

I said, well, somebody can't remember his name.

Told me it was there, Blake.

So I said, well, call Blake and tell him that we've now found that isn't there and ask him how he explains that.

And he said, I can't.

They shipped him out to sea.

He said, maybe.

And they moved him out.

But I've got another guy to track down.

We're going to follow that through the assay.

We had some other guy that came in here the other day and said he was going over to Brooklyn.

He's leaving for my house back.

I wonder where he's working from.

Well, we have several people over there.

Maybe we can find out.

Certainly there's no squealing about Ellsberg.

Wow.

There's no squealing about Ellsberg.

What do you mean?

Also about the movement against Ellsberg.

I talked to Hoover, and he's moving on that conspiracy thing.

He says it's a conspiracy.

He's sure there's a conspiracy.

We'll see if we can get it locked back.

Ellsberg is right.

But not by name.

He's only saying that.

I know.

But it's even worse.

That's just, that's all right.

I mean, just, that gives us a reason to see.

No, no, well, those are weak people.

If you put the screws on them, they'll show what they are.

Were you able to do anything on the, on the, you know, Richardson's man?

Well, yeah, John's, John's going to be on that.

I mean, he has trouble.

He might break.

Yeah, right.

He might break.

He doesn't mind what's going on.

I'd just like to find one of these guys, get another one.

I told John, you kind of like that polygraph I did, and I thought you ought to order up a few more machines to be sure to have enough on hand.

And he laughed, and he says, we've got plenty on hand, and that's a damn good way to move on some of these people.

That's right.

People in the government should all go out and take polygraphs in their cubes, or get out.

You know, the polygraph is practically certain, you know, which model.

Particularly, they take two or three.

I don't know much about them, but they are, like, you just swear about them.

But the main thing it does, you catch the son of a bitch.

Because the moment you say you're gonna give him a polygraph, that's when he talks.

Yeah.

Plus, it's like the brain.

No, there's the term, too, because that guy, he's gonna go under the polygraph, he's gonna be, well, he'll talk.

That's exactly right.

The reason you couldn't talk, the polygraph makes the guy talk.

Because he knows it's gonna go, when he says the wrong thing, so he starts saying as much right as he can.

That'll be interesting to see.

The only question I'll ask you about anything is, Elliot's got Larry Lynn over there now too, you know.

He left here and he pleaded with him, and he pleaded with him to stay and everything.

And he left and went to Stanford.

Elliot's hired him.

He went from Stanford, he's back over to AGW.

Dick Allen says he's worth more than a bunch.

Who he is?

Dick Allen says that Allen's got dirty money.

The only question I'm getting from all of us now is does the government intend to move against?

But it's not moving.

We're going to have to classify this down the hill, but that's very, you know, not fresh at all.

Well, I mean, it doesn't come in the belligerent, pressing way because they have to...

The thing is, they didn't launch them for you.

They did what?

They didn't run.

They said they were moving all this UPI on the city line, which is running the ETA honors.

So step by step.

Step by step.

If you will have your talk with him later.

He's gone.

He left today for Japan.

We'll keep him.

Whoever's over there, he's got to...

Why don't you go to the 30 mines over there?

I'm gonna get to work on this.

That's what we gotta say to Laird.

Tell Laird that this is a chance.

Tell Laird that here's a chance for Laird to be the strong man.

Let him be the guy that breaks this spire.

Dependent on papers running from the left.

I see stands.

They're having troubles with Congress.

I understand.

Yeah?

Okay.

Come to the health committee.

Committees.

Spurs.

Amen.

Oh, there it is.

Because of the contempt, I guess.

All Democrats and Republicans.

Hey, is that, uh, I think that's just fun how this sounds.

Oops.

So what else is the common intent?

Sure.

It's, well, hey, Rob, you're right.

The committee, I remember we used to have committee citations in the old days of the committee.

The House always backs the committee.

See, the committee isn't going to vote for the committee panels.

Why not?

The committee was 23 to 14.

Yeah, 23 to 14.

That's still a pretty good vote.

That's a pretty good vote.

23 to 14.

But I'll tell you, the committee don't stomp the hell out of CBS.

They didn't make a vote.

That's why I think the House will vote.

They deserve to be voted.

Well, they do.

They're acting that way.

They're saying, screw you.

What is this about?

It's not the Pentagon.

It's not that song in the Pentagon where they subpoenaed the film that they didn't use on the show.

The point of it is, it is not the fact that they have the same right not to show reporters notes.

This is not the factor involved here.

This is showing the committee a full interview of Dan Hagen.

It's showing the committee a full interview of Aiden.

They put the interview, the committee wants to see the whole interview to see what the context was.

And they're refusing to give them that.

And that is not, that is not revealing the source, or it is, and it is not.

It's a recorded interview.

On the mic, Ron, are they clear?

I'm sure we won't recall.

I mean, excuse me.

I was working in New York.

How do Stewart, as the Washington Post reporter, in the event of publishing classified information, delay or perhaps destroy chances to get back to you?

If you don't at least, what would be your reaction since that's one of the crises of the first half?

You know what?

The American people would vote on that.

Do you favor?

Do you think that this paper should have the right to public vaccination if it delays and CO doesn't get vaccinated?

Tandalize it.

Or if you could say, I'm going to put it, and I address myself on this Tuesday, I'm going to just put it in a way that's the president is so different standing.

I mean, he, of course, has to publish it.

He has to publish it.

But I don't think so.

I have to negotiate to save American lives, and I've got to put that first above.

But in your case, I think I went just the other way and asked him, if releasing us would endanger 100 American servicemen's lives, would you still feel that you should put the fish bigger than the rice credit?

And Babel said no, and that would be a different question.

Was Babel represented in your comments?

Well, and also the New York Times, Stacey, has taken the pieces of view with that.

They have been very cautious and restrained in terms of pretty anything.

Is it that which they feel is a national security?

Yeah, I know.

Let me say this.

They feel which they feel.

That's right.

They're not going to do it.

Let me say it wrong.

You've been getting these squeals from the Times on the cover of the Facebook.

We're going to just keep it on.

Today, we're not going to surround the kind of people who came up tonight.

After the freezing, I called one up, went back and got another, called another up, went back and got another, you know, to stand in line.

Come up to my office, you know, for a little while.

And then I didn't go back up to get my people.

So they'll keep the message.

Well, you know, keep, keep, keep, keep, keep, keep, keep, keep it right out there.

Close it at a time.

No, not the others.

Not the Chicago paper or the Boston.

They don't know.

Probably because we need them for other purposes and really they're more with us than the others.

The Times and the Post.

It's like a Chicago paper ran the right story.

Until this week, let's get it on the Post.

The only thing that I'm thinking about letting up on the Times is David.

I wouldn't do that.

Not now, but not now.

But in about a month, when we do go back to David and only the economic stories, I've never let up on an actual security story.

I've never been upset because of your background, you know what I mean?

How did, did you get away last night with that?

Yeah.

No, no.

Oh!

I'm walking out the door saying goodbye.

I'm walking out the door saying, Henry, when they call you over at the airport, don't go over and start talking into that microphone.

Well, I said, oh, God.

Well, Henry has a tendency to have one way or the other.

He'll say, hi, how are you?

You walk over, and I'll say, Henry, the moment you get over and you shake your hand out in friendship, I'm going to stick a microphone in your hand.

That's what he said.

Another thing, too, which you might be sure A gets a message to Henry, is that I know he's not going to talk to the press, but I think that he should not talk even to an ambassador except for Bunker.

Except for Bunker, who has trusted me about the Pentagon Papers.

Because I don't want one of the ambassadors to debrief his staff, and then for the word to get out in the papers that Henry Kissinger deals with.

This is a subject that is for both

Right?

So I've accepted a private conversation, a totally private conversation, that there's no other ambassador I ever wanted to discuss it with, particularly not Keating, particularly not Keating, and naturally not Hunter, because neither one, Keating blames us, and Hunter is not our man.

Don't you agree, Robert?

That is just a subject that you've got to stay away from.

Or will, of course, any more of us.

You should just say, well, I'm just not going to discuss it.

You should just put a blind wall in the Pentagon paper.

I'm just not going to discuss it.

I don't know any other way to handle it.

I think Henry would handle it.

Anything he says will escalate from out there.

It's going to be a lot of focus on Henry's career.

Particularly if you listen.

Especially if he gets to Paris.

What did you see?

The star.

Early editions.

Did you see that?

What did they get?

Albert?

Who?

Albert's thing?

Carl Albert.

I'll tell you if I'm that big.

This is Albert State's Secret Talks.

Albert what?

Albert, you know, Albert says secret talks.

Well, that's what he does in the greatest of times.

That's what I mean.

I'm sorry.

I don't think that's bad.

I'm not saying, no, I'm talking about I focus on it.

Actually, we just apply it in the greatest of times.

I'll tell you what we're going to do.

That's fine.

I'm sure you've got it.

That's the way they're playing.

They say President Nixon's been doing secret things.

He's got a lot of lines.

And I ask you to talk about it.

And I ask you to explain it.

He probably said President Nixon deserves the credit.

He feels a little sheepish.

He ought to.

He feels a little sheepish.

And he knows.

You told him he was putting you in a bad spot.

He knows.

He did.

I'm trying to get on that spot.

Of course, there's a couple of his, Rogers, and Liger, wondering what the hell's going on, because I haven't told them.

But I didn't.

I told them.

They talk to people.

Everybody's talking to people.

Well, we're covering Asia pretty well.

We've got the Vice President of the United States, the Security Advisor to the President, and the Secretary of Defense all day today.

Guys are kind of looking around on that.

The buzz around this city about all of this is just incredible, and it is relating positively to this way.

But they kind of understand.

Is it all about Vietnam?

Well, they don't know this.

They don't know what's going on.

But, you know, they're trying to talk about everything, and Henry's thing, and then they see Helms over in Israel.

And they're all kind of just looking around.

That's all right.

They think you've got a hell of a lot of things going.

That's exactly what you want.

Which is much better than the way Johnson did.

He did it all over.

You know, he's had a passage of peace all around the world.

He never did.

We just don't, we don't.

It's a stone wall.

Yeah.

It's just what it was.

Right.

We're doing it and not talking about it.

He talked about it and didn't do it.

This is a very, very important thing.

The second round was very good.

I let them talk about the technical factors all they want, but they cannot knock on the fact that they went down.

Headlines, all the matters there.

Unemployed went down five percent.

Six percent.

That's a down two percent.

And a point of two points.

three million cents per person.

Are they saying that?

I thought we could have said that.

Well, they've obviously said not to do anything like that.

Listen, listen, it's going to go up.

We just got to leave it there.

It's never going to arrive.

And this idea of

You know, that we have no, don't write too much good news because you may get bad news next month.

It's ridiculous.

But you agree.

Write it when you got it.

And when it's bad, figure they're going to write you.

I mean, it's a, I've gotten away from it just so we get more of this.

It's so, it's so responsible.

Actually, the policy guys, the next month is going to be awesome.

We won't make too much out of this.

Another month doesn't mean a lot.

The way the other side of the century said, when the thing goes out and says, well, that's a statistical aberration.

One month doesn't mean much.

When it goes down, this is good news.

See?

That's what Hobson did this morning.

He's not being kind to God.

He looks better on camera, surprisingly enough, than he does when he's doing it for camera.

Well, he's a fresh, friendly fellow.

He has a good timbre to his voice.

I watch him.

You know, he really had, he sounds much better than Schultz.

See, Schultz has got a stronger voice, Schultz has it much faster, Schultz is a stronger and a bigger man.

But in the other hand, Hodgson's got a, he's got a better salesman.

He's interesting.

Or, you know, the dynamic is,

They tried to get through the House today, and we had a controversy with Secretary Conway.

And the four House men were very involved.

They said, would you disagree with what Secretary Conway said about our economic policy?

Secretary Conway said, never.

Correct.

We'll see what we have.