Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 539-001
Date: Monday, July 19, 1971 at 10:00 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Stennis, John C.; Hébert, F. Edward; Rogers, William P.; Timmons, William E.; MacGregor, Clark; BeLieu, Kenneth E.; Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/539-001

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:41] Thank you.
[1:04] Who feels stronger than I do, than I do, on POWs, on ceasefire, on end of the war?
[1:10] Carlos says we might even get on tomorrow.
[1:13] I might even get on five years ago.
[1:17] Three years ago.
[1:19] You see my mind?
[1:20] That's the problem we've got.
[1:22] Now, I don't question it.
[1:22] You'd rather have nothing.
[1:24] You mean you'd rather have no bill?
[1:25] No matter.
[1:26] I mean, I'm going to do it.
[1:29] And this is the point you put in.
[1:33] By spirit, you see, to get any bill, you're going to have to vote Trojans in.
[1:39] I don't think you can get it done without.
[1:45] And I voted for Trojans myself.
[1:48] And I told all my colleagues, some of my colleagues and others,
[1:58] but you can't get those people out of Mansfield that need his passive assistance.
[2:07] You cannot get over his opposition.
[2:10] It just can't be done.
[2:13] So I think you come to the question, what's the minimum you can yield?
[2:18] I'm not saying the Senate bill has a limit.
[2:21] What is the least that you could possibly live with?
[2:27] and at least avoid man-stealed opposition and get a bill.
[2:34] So ultimately, the question is, how many of these need a bill?
[2:37] A draft bill?
[2:39] And I think we've got to have it ourselves for two years anyway.
[2:47] We can get just this treatment cost.
[2:50] We can get that nine-month treatment.
[2:55] We have two things we don't care about.
[2:57] There's only one thing we have to hang up on.
[3:00] And that is the word, the final date.
[3:04] I've been hanging up on that, John.
[3:08] I don't know what exactly he said.
[3:11] That is not useful.
[3:12] That is not useful at all.
[3:13] Well, I think the word is, let me push it.
[3:16] The second thing we...
[3:18] Mr. President, there are really two serious objections at the moment, even with those two things out.
[3:30] One, the resolution makes it look as if our objective in Indochina is the release of the prisoners of war.
[3:40] In other words, it looks as if we've been fighting all these years and killed, had 50,000 Americans killed in order to get the return of 500.
[3:47] Now, that's not our objective.
[3:50] We've almost achieved our objective.
[3:52] This last week, I can tell Senator Petty about this.
[3:58] Last week, we had the lowest number of casualties.
[4:00] We've had six years.
[4:02] We had 11.
[4:04] It went down from 300 and some odd when it first took office to about 11.
[4:08] So, and I just heard the radio report this morning, there's no fighting going on in Vietnam.
[4:14] So we don't want to give up everything that we stood for all these years to just get the prisoners of war back.
[4:20] We don't want that to appear to be what our objective is.
[4:23] The second thing that's troubling us now is that anything that Congress does at this juncture,
[4:29] which indicates a lack of confidence in the president, could have a very serious adverse effect, not only on the vision, but on the possibility of a negotiated peace.
[4:38] You know, make some jammies right now.
[4:42] You, if you get a man to deal with this, talk to him.
[4:47] I think he'll change.
[4:49] Well, let me put this in here.
[4:51] Well, let me say something to him.
[4:52] Don't say anything to him.
[4:53] I'm done with this.
[4:55] Yes, sir.
[5:00] I did, when they threw the voting in the House, I opposed it.
[5:09] And one's a right to go in a conference on Chattanooga, I'm not free to go in.
[5:19] But the Senate and the House are against it until they climb it and climb it down.
[5:30] What I did when I went in there, I was a little convict, a little legend.
[5:38] I said, I'll give it.
[5:40] I said, I'll give it.
[5:42] I'll buy a man's suit.
[5:44] I'll take it with the men.
[5:49] Now, we've got that date out.
[5:51] But if we hang on that one, those two words, they go to date.
[5:58] We finally, finally, finally, finally, we tried to do a sort of small thing and call it, uh, a special housing with something we could have specified.
[6:09] Finally, period.
[6:09] D-A-T-E is the name.
[6:10] I don't want to see that at all.
[6:12] And now we ain't got no name.
[6:13] And that's the way, this is, I don't talk about the house side.
[6:17] This is the position, the definite position of the house, and it's not going to change.
[6:27] unless one man tells him to change it, and that's you.
[6:34] And John knows this.
[6:34] Mr. President, I would like to suggest we've had some discussions with Senator Mansfield just recently.
[6:38] In view of this trip and so forth, the situation may have changed, so let us take another look at it, and we'll be back in touch with you.
[6:44] And I'm not even asking me.
[6:46] I'm not talking to him.
[6:48] I'm not suggesting that you fucking bring him to Mansfield, man.
[6:51] Wait a minute.
[6:51] Sure.
[6:53] All right.
[6:54] If you're going to redo this,
[6:57] We'll see what the situation is, but the situation has changed drastically.
[7:07] Nobody wants to screw up this kind of thing.
[7:11] All of us can do that.
[7:13] Well, Henry, in that comment that your friend chose, if you were to read it, well, right after this,
[7:21] Also, let me say this, can I put it quite interestingly enough?
[7:25] You've also versed against strong figures and so forth.
[7:31] Those that would like to get out, do you realize that the impact of this president
[7:49] Congress takes a stronger line with regard to not tying the President's hands.
[7:56] It could have the public enormously agnostic.
[7:59] That's the question.
[8:00] That's the question.
[8:02] That's the question.
[8:04] Remember this, that the House will pass anything I bring back.
[8:08] That's a deal-fix.
[8:09] Right.
[8:09] Yes, John's got a big problem.
[8:11] He's got to have some help.
[8:13] I'll tell you, he just got two soldiers like you.
[8:17] You keep on being dumb.
[8:18] The hell with you.
[8:37] Now listen up.
[9:06] I can't thank you enough.