Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 539-006
Date: Monday, July 19, 1971 at 11:18 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.; Butterfield, Alexander P.; [Unknown person(s)]
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/539-006

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[1:04:01] It's a good chance to make some points that, you know, should be made.
[1:04:09] In fact, I think Robs weren't jumping in and feeding a little bit of the deficit.
[1:05:10] That's a very good job.
[1:05:16] He's good.
[1:05:18] Of course, he's getting a hell of a lot of credit.
[1:05:21] I noticed all the weekly news magazines say he worked, which is good.
[1:05:26] We put it out on the briefing book with us.
[1:05:30] a reading book.
[1:05:31] Did you put that up?
[1:05:32] No, I didn't.
[1:05:33] But you said he was involved in the discussion.
[1:05:37] But time and news, if you read the map, read the map, it gives a great play and 98% on you.
[1:05:45] You were cool, what you did.
[1:05:48] Superb covers.
[1:05:49] You know, I was afraid, we talked about it, that, well, I don't want to.
[1:05:54] You were extremely lit.
[1:05:55] But let me tell you how much rock she's doing.
[1:05:57] And we're
[1:06:02] I don't, I don't give a damn about individual credit.
[1:06:05] The credit had to go to you.
[1:06:06] No, no, no.
[1:06:06] We went to find some Steve Rogers.
[1:06:07] God damn it.
[1:06:08] We made him keep that State Department line.
[1:06:12] And he gets out.
[1:06:13] We had to tell you, he heard us say he was the one that took the lead.
[1:06:18] Everybody shut up.
[1:06:19] All right.
[1:06:19] One of those bastards that stayed steep south.
[1:06:22] We're not kidding.
[1:06:24] But I'm really impressed by the time in Uzbekistan.
[1:06:28] Because that must reflect the command decision on their part that they weren't going to chop you up.
[1:06:34] As I told you, well, but the normal tendency is to say, if you do anything, if the president does something right, preferably it's Rogers.
[1:06:44] If it isn't Rogers, it had to be me, but it couldn't be you.
[1:06:48] I mean, that's been their normal tendency, but this time it's all brilliant presidential coup, presidential initiative, awesome power of the presidency is what the Newsweek says.
[1:06:59] Well, and you're on the cover of both magazines, which is the worst way at all.
[1:07:03] That's right.
[1:07:03] You with Chew and Lye on Newsweek, and you with Henry on Time.
[1:07:08] Yes.
[1:07:09] And... And that's a cartoon of Henry Padwin, Padwin above, you standing in bounds.
[1:07:15] And it's, uh... No, it's a wrap, but it called Journey to Peking, and, uh... And Newsweek has a cover, I Shall Go to China.
[1:07:28] Nixon, I shall go to China.
[1:07:30] That's the implication.
[1:07:35] I'm just skimming Newsweek, the ecstatic time, extraordinarily laudatory, and in the right framework, they don't pretend that this was just a quick gimmick.
[1:07:47] You know, I was wondering whether that
[1:08:00] and we went off to the restaurant.
[1:08:02] The study did, yeah?
[1:08:03] Yeah.
[1:08:03] He said it was non-presentational.
[1:08:05] No, wait a minute, was that a study or was that?
[1:08:07] It was a study.
[1:08:11] that it was non-presidential.
[1:08:13] Well, Bush, forget it.
[1:08:14] I think the politicians thought it like that.
[1:08:16] They can find a clue about that you went out to dinner after the war.
[1:08:20] They said we were at Gourmet dinner.
[1:08:22] And they said the Gourmet dinner and the helicopter trip were not presidential.
[1:08:26] Wasn't he expected to walk up to Burbank?
[1:08:29] Oh, no, he said he should have disissued his statement.
[1:08:33] Yeah, you're not correct.
[1:08:36] I agree with Bush.
[1:08:38] The Soviet ambassador to Indonesia made a public statement saying any attempt by the two countries to solve world problems is good for the world, and I welcome President Nixon's move.
[1:08:50] That he wouldn't dare to make...
[1:08:52] I'll send a note to Henry asking that he be tougher.
[1:09:02] and a little more detail with the staff on the secrecy of D.P.
[1:09:07] and Goddamn.
[1:09:07] I don't think you should see them at all, Mr. President.
[1:09:10] I do.
[1:09:10] You don't just sit in the meeting.
[1:09:11] You should just go in and I'm going to say that I started the other thing, the secrecy of this.
[1:09:17] Without secrecy, it couldn't have happened.
[1:09:19] Without secrecy, we'll not succeed.
[1:09:22] This is a terribly important step in the whole country and so forth, and Henry will not read it.
[1:09:32] Thank you very much.
[1:09:33] That's all.
[1:09:34] That's all.
[1:09:35] Because I had to work on it all night.
[1:09:38] Oh, it's all in there.
[1:09:41] Oh, now, Gordon, you've had these weeks of waiting and preparation, and...
[1:09:49] I don't think you should preach the White House staff anyway, because they'll just get some quotes from you.
[1:09:54] No, but I think it is good, sir.
[1:09:56] But the president, yeah.
[1:09:57] What time have you got it set?
[1:09:58] 1130.
[1:09:58] Oh, I just, then I'll set it up back in my office for a minute.
[1:10:04] I'll get it lined up.
[1:10:04] Just a little, a couple little nuggets, and that's all.
[1:10:10] The hell with it, it doesn't mean, if I speak it, I'll do this with the staff, too.
[1:10:15] I'll get them a little quote, sir.
[1:10:16] Absolutely.
[1:10:17] Give Zach the rest of the story, too.
[1:10:19] Yes, because you can have the beauty of that.
[1:10:22] The rest of the story, they're going to get out, though.
[1:10:24] No, no, they shouldn't get out.
[1:10:25] They won't get out.
[1:10:26] They won't get out.
[1:10:28] Yes, they will.
[1:10:29] It'll leak, it should as well.
[1:10:30] Okay.
[1:10:30] It'll leak.
[1:10:31] Oh, nobody can keep that story.
[1:10:33] And that's just wrong.
[1:10:35] I love the story.
[1:10:35] It's good to laugh.
[1:10:36] Okay.
[1:10:36] Well, give me Kansas City City.
[1:10:42] Just say it in this paper corresponding to that.
[1:10:44] Do you like it?
[1:10:46] You might use them, all that holographic, you haven't used that in anybody, you see.
[1:10:51] And I could use the, well, I, you know, one could use the rest of the story as an example of how much he's on top of things.
[1:10:59] Rather than something else, say that a reporter from Washington, say who it is, was on his way, an American reporter, actually really concerned about a leak, and he said, well, you know where he is, he's on the train.
[1:11:14] What I am really impressed with is how they played the game.
[1:11:22] Oh, I think the leaders were eating it up.
[1:11:30] When Fulbright breaks its back to be cooperative, you know you've got something.
[1:11:37] I'm glad we got this consultation with Rogers.
[1:11:41] I don't want you to listen to the ones that count.
[1:11:45] I'd like Rogers to consult with the Baskets.
[1:11:51] The other thing is that I think with Fulbright
[1:12:02] We hit very hard with that standard.
[1:12:04] Please don't pass any resolutions.
[1:12:06] Please don't tell us what to do.
[1:12:07] Now, you notice I hit that.
[1:12:09] My God, we're not going to have it.
[1:12:12] But what Senes said to me when we walked out is he said, after Arthur talks to Mansfield, maybe the president could call him.
[1:12:19] Because he feels very strongly we ought to act tough now on the amendment.
[1:12:25] Good.
[1:12:25] Let's have Roger's hand talk with Mansfield.
[1:12:28] You see, what was the thing they referred to that we haven't met, still in Memphis, the other way around?
[1:12:32] Well, that's, that's just, golly, that's, that's just a hater playing his little games.
[1:12:37] He's playing games now.
[1:12:38] He's a nice, he's a nice... Well, haters all with us.
[1:12:40] He just, I know I'm lying to the others.
[1:12:42] He said, he said he'll take the amendment, but then he's emasculating the text in such a way.
[1:12:47] But, but the text could only, if we had the condom, and what are the few notes I have got it now, would be perfectly, perfectly all right.
[1:12:55] The President, they support the President's efforts
[1:12:59] to negotiate a settlement with Vietnam consistent with our objectives.
[1:13:04] a settlement consistent with our objectives, including the following, the release of POWs, a ceasefire, an immediate ceasefire, and finally, a settlement which respects the right of each country in the area, the right of independence of each country in the area is free of foreign interference.
[1:13:32] See, that's a devilish thing.
[1:13:34] See, that covers it.
[1:13:35] Free of outsiders' appearance, you have to say, because the Vietnamese don't consider themselves foreign.
[1:13:40] I'll be right.
[1:13:41] Take your time.
[1:13:42] We'll go five minutes earlier.
[1:13:48] Later, the staff take five minutes.
[1:13:49] Right.
[1:13:49] Boy, you know, it's hard to get used to this.
[1:13:59] Kennedy spoke to me about the, he wants to have a plane again.
[1:14:03] He's very excited to see that plane.
[1:14:05] Well, it's a prestige.
[1:14:06] All right, then you should talk to Rogers and the State Department should pay for it.
[1:14:12] Yes, yes.
[1:14:13] Just say, look, on this one last trip, let's let Kennedy have some sort of a match in the State Department.
[1:14:22] You know what I mean?
[1:14:23] They all spoil a lot.
[1:14:24] Let me tell you this.
[1:14:25] You know what they spoil?
[1:14:26] We give them too much.
[1:14:30] I don't think they believe, you know, that I traveled around the world as a former vice president and as a potential presidential candidate in 1967.
[1:14:41] I went to four continents and I traveled with one other person.
[1:14:47] on God and a private plane, and sometimes coach planes, because I couldn't get anything else.
[1:14:52] I didn't hurt my prestige.
[1:14:54] People were up to meet me.
[1:14:56] They were impressed with it.
[1:14:58] What does it matter to these people?
[1:15:00] What do they think?
[1:15:08] I don't know.
[1:15:09] I don't know.
[1:15:15] I'm still thinking McGill, the Grove, might be interesting.
[1:15:19] I'm sure it was key, but only on the basis of going out and back, you know what I mean, for one day.
[1:15:30] You know, I was noticing in the news summary that a rather curious twist where Gallup had Kennedy leading 41 to 40 and had Harris headed the other way.
[1:15:44] Is that the gallops, the part that fall out of the gallops last full?
[1:15:53] Yeah.
[1:15:53] The last gallop didn't come out.
[1:15:56] That's the one where you went down on approval all of a sudden.
[1:16:02] And this is out of the same one.
[1:16:12] And there's a...
[1:16:13] It's a...
[1:16:15] They also, they're lagging behind.
[1:16:27] The facts are wrong.
[1:16:28] Their questions are distorted.
[1:16:30] They did a poll.
[1:16:31] Gallup is really screwed up.
[1:16:33] We've got to figure out some way to get out of it.
[1:16:38] They did a poll for this Potomac Associates, which is...
[1:16:43] Sort of a John Gardner type thing.
[1:16:48] And in that, they come out with a lot of settlement of the war type stuff that they're obsessed with.
[1:16:58] They really aren't.
[1:16:58] God, it's just the organization.
[1:17:01] Let me say this.
[1:17:02] George, I guess, is obsessed with them.
[1:17:04] Those are all irrelevant now.
[1:17:06] They must have been well-realized.
[1:17:09] But I think we have got to hold the view of Gallup now in the present tense.
[1:17:14] He may be under the conceit, but regardless, people are powerful, and they have money to control.
[1:17:21] Yeah.
[1:17:21] So... Tony says it isn't very correct.
[1:17:22] It's the same kind of thing.
[1:17:23] My inclination has to hold tomorrow and Wednesday.
[1:17:28] Good.
[1:17:29] Which will let today's news and tonight's television set in.
[1:17:33] Yes.
[1:17:33] Yes.
[1:17:34] One more shot there.
[1:17:34] So we've only had one night of TV.
[1:17:37] On this thing, really, because Saturday and Sunday don't really count until it's at the end of time.
[1:17:41] The news magazines are not really known.
[1:17:44] They don't make that much difference in a poll.
[1:17:48] It doesn't.
[1:17:49] By Wednesday, it will.
[1:17:50] It will affect you to the extent it does.
[1:17:52] Tomorrow, things will be in the room.
[1:17:54] But most people don't get into this thing until tomorrow.
[1:17:58] I thought, too, it was just as well that they had the shit done, just to be a little bit honest, you know, where I said, look, on all these things that they're doing, I mean, just all of a sudden, I'm done.
[1:18:09] You know, because, you know, a lot of them have been doing too goddamn much second-guessing, first of all, and there.
[1:18:14] But they'll get back to it.
[1:18:16] But you agree?
[1:18:16] Yeah.
[1:18:17] I mean, they, all this business of, why don't we do this, and haven't we thought of that, and what's the matter here, and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[1:18:25] I mean, goddammit, they gotta face up to the fact that life sometimes is tough, and sometimes we lose, and sometimes we win.
[1:18:31] But by God, we're doing about the right thing.
[1:18:35] Don't you think so?
[1:18:36] Yep.
[1:18:36] Yep, I did.
[1:18:36] I guess I'm missing that kid.
[1:18:50] I really did, because I wish the hell both of you had been there, each of you.
[1:18:55] And they will vote me in or out of the vote.
[1:18:59] Well, they're peeping with you.
[1:19:00] They'll report it back.
[1:19:01] Yeah, they will.
[1:19:02] Because they both have a tendency to second-guess, don't they?
[1:19:07] They're powerful.
[1:19:08] They will be, especially.
[1:19:08] You know, he goes along in this incredibly stupid approach that, you know, everything he thinks that you haven't thought of.
[1:19:16] I mean, he seems to think nothing that wouldn't have occurred to you.
[1:19:20] Hickel was the crime guy in that area.
[1:19:22] Yeah.
[1:19:28] The other thing I thought would be a good thing to do this weekend, to work on that going down to the House for the Appropriations Committee meeting.
[1:19:39] I'm going to read that sometime.
[1:19:41] Yeah, but I don't think we've got enough time for it.
[1:19:46] I don't think it's this week.
[1:19:48] Yeah, I think it is.
[1:19:50] I think it's on Thursday.
[1:19:52] I'm not going to read that.
[1:19:53] Fine.
[1:19:53] On the leaders, I mean, on the press tonight,
[1:19:57] If you could put Mom on the list for tonight, what would you do?
[1:19:59] I just think you ought to put him on.
[1:20:03] He is a Bureau Chief, and he is our friend.
[1:20:05] How about all that?
[1:20:06] Well, Tom, you've got to take Wilson there.
[1:20:08] It's all right.
[1:20:11] It's not.
[1:20:12] And he's really, we've got Mom going on some other stuff.
[1:20:14] It's not.
[1:20:15] No, no, no, no.
[1:20:16] I didn't go there.
[1:20:17] I sent people.
[1:20:23] Dick Wilson's really senior and has much broader coverage.
[1:20:29] Almost too far, I'm gonna...
[1:20:34] It's just not there.
[1:20:37] It's fine, it's to your benefit to have said that he sat in and only the three of you knew and that kind of thing.
[1:20:48] That part's good.
[1:20:50] But I sure wouldn't go beyond, you know, what he did, and making the point that he made the speech in Australia is good.
[1:20:55] Well, Henry's just been great.
[1:20:58] This guy's been good at this.
[1:21:00] Well, he can afford it, but he doesn't hurt much this time.
[1:21:05] He's on this cover of Time magazine, running the boat.
[1:21:10] Yeah, but you're much better than he is.
[1:21:12] I thought both covers would be all in.
[1:21:15] I did too.
[1:21:16] I listened to Henry.
[1:21:17] I was prepared for it, which I was prepared for.
[1:21:18] They're all right.
[1:21:19] Yeah, but it's much better this way.
[1:21:24] Both of them have you.
[1:21:25] Henry is even on this week.
[1:21:59] Yeah, he should have started last year.
[1:22:06] No, he had to start at the beginning.
[1:22:12] No, I didn't say that.