Nixon & Haldeman on China initiative and John B. Connally

1:58:48Very well.
1:58:52He's getting himself in gear.
1:58:58He has a, it's obvious when you know him, I don't think anybody else sees him, but he's got this problem all the time, trying to figure out what to say and what not to say.
1:59:07He hasn't become comfortable with it.
1:59:09Yeah, he is.
1:59:28I'd be at a point in the games by, uh, scaling.
1:59:36Except that it's got to be not that bad.
1:59:38All right.
1:59:56You hit it well Henry, you hit it well and I hit it.
2:00:06It can't be, it can't be the question of anybody's mind that this goes off now because some guy willfully is doing it.
2:00:19And that's all.
2:00:20There's no other thoughts.
2:00:21They're all there.
2:00:22You had everybody there.
2:00:22And there's no need for any of that now to talk.
2:00:30And, uh... Well, to get it across, Bob, people don't do it because, and many people, well, there may be somebody doing it, but most people don't do it because they want to hurt you.
2:00:38They just don't.
2:00:40They're taking it in with a goddamn press.
2:00:42Henry made the point after you finished that what you were saying to them was not for them to use
2:00:48and talking to people, it was only for them so they'd understand the background of this thing.
2:00:53And then I came in and made the point that we had set up backgrounders with the staff for briefing meetings with the staff at Cambodia time and at other major events, you know, to tell them what was going on so that they were able to communicate with other people, but that this time it was for a different purpose.
2:01:10This was not so they would be able to communicate with other people, it was so they would know as much as they needed to know.
2:01:17for now, as to what the status of this thing was, and to understand the reasons why they should not communicate with other people, press, friends, social, or anything else, and that this was a different situation, and that on this one we would not be having a series of staff briefings to keep people up to date on what's going on in China.
2:01:36We wouldn't be going into anything further on it.
2:01:39They should not expect to be kept up to date.
2:01:43i think it's worth making that point because we have on the others we've you know whether we're in a crisis or a big developing story we've gotten together periodically and kept them posted on it i don't think we want to on this one and they might as well not think they're going to get it now then i made at the end roger's point because i think it was a good one for the staff that the opposition is now going to take us on on domestic grounds because they are going to be able to do much on the
2:02:11one thing this gives us an opportunity we'll have plenty to talk about plenty to do from a staff academy point on the grounds where there is responsibility without having to get into the china question usually it's the heart of the staff and that's because you know they're all well-intentioned loyal press but by god they've got to be heard i don't think sometimes they get the message otherwise what do you think you weren't too hard at all uh
2:02:40Some guy willfully is killing me.
2:02:43And that's all.
2:02:44I mean, it just, there's no other thoughts.
2:02:46They were all there.
2:02:46You had everybody there.
2:02:47And there's no need for any of that now.
2:02:55And, uh... Well, they got an across spot.
2:02:57People don't do it because, and many people, well, there may be somebody doing it.
2:03:01Most people don't do it because they want to hurt you.
2:03:03They just don't.
2:03:04They're taken in with a goddamn press.
2:03:07Henry made the point after you finished that what you were saying to them was not for them to use in talking to people.
2:03:13It was only for them so they'd understand the background of this thing.
2:03:17And then I came in and made the point that we had set up backgrounders with the staff for briefing meetings with the staff at Cambodia time and at other major events to tell them what was going on.
2:03:29so that they were able to communicate with other people, but that this time it was for a different purpose.
2:03:35This was not so they would be able to communicate with other people, but so they would know as much as they needed to know, for now, as to what the status of this thing was, and to understand the reasons why they should not communicate with other people, press, friends, social, or anything else.
2:03:53and that this was a different situation, and that on this one we would not be having a series of staff briefings to keep people up-to-date on what's going on in China.
2:04:00We wouldn't be going into anything further on it.
2:04:03They should not expect to be kept up-to-date.
2:04:06I think it's worth making that point, because we have on the others.
2:04:11Whether we're in a crisis or a big developing story, we've gotten together periodically and kept them posted on it.
2:04:16I don't think we want to on this one.
2:04:18I just forgot.
2:04:20and they might as well not think they're going to get it now.
2:04:23Then I made, at the end, Raj Morton's point, because I think it was a good one for the staff, that the opposition is now going to take us on on domestic grounds because they aren't going to be able to do much on the more thing.
2:04:35This gives us an opportunity.
2:04:36We'll have plenty to talk about and plenty to do from a staff and category point on the grounds where there is responsibility without having to get into the China questions.
2:04:45He's the hardest man in this because, you know, they're all well-intentioned, loyal to us.
2:04:51But by God, they've got to be hurt.
2:04:52I don't think sometimes they get the message otherwise.
2:04:54What do you think?
2:04:55You weren't too hard at all.
2:04:56I don't know about everybody.
2:04:59We have to be tough on them.
2:05:00They do leave.
2:05:01God damn it, this administration leaves like a sieve.
2:05:04It's because we've been too easy.
2:05:06Don't you think so?
2:05:08Yes.
2:05:08And so we're just not going to happen anymore.
2:05:19I took a look at the main news magazines there.
2:05:25I thought that, as I told Henry, I agree with you, I agree with what we're doing with Rodgers, and I feel that some say that Rodgers and several of his aides have been informed about that, but is that one of the magazines that we haven't seen yet, some of his colleagues' aides?
2:05:43Well, of course, some state department got it put down, so it's not a labor-informed goddamn thing.
2:05:50The only problem is not a labor-informed, but then it goes on, maybe for two, this is the point, and it was layered or not informed.
2:05:58Well, now, if you informed some shit, I said, state financial department, I didn't win a lottery.
2:06:03See my point?
2:06:05Oh, well, that's state for you.
2:06:07That's the way they do it.
2:06:10Oh, oh.
2:06:12Marshall Green, trying to make sure nobody can see him.
2:06:15He was extremely well handled, and so forth.
2:06:19And, uh, considering being better than magazines, they give, they give, uh, isn't it, as much play as you can imagine to a man as you would expect to, uh, a person's actual role here, you know, in this, uh, analogous to the old, which is alright.
2:06:38But, uh, if you, if you were, you were absolutely right to,
2:06:42The whole tendency would have been to play it all as either a Rodgers boy or a Kissinger boy, or any kind of a hell of a beard.
2:06:50But in this instance, they do a little grudgingly.
2:06:53They have to say, yeah, it does.
2:06:55You know, it's hard.
2:06:55How can you expect them to turn around and do it?
2:06:58They don't have to do it grudgingly.
2:07:00And it may seem as if they didn't.
2:07:02I couldn't agree more.
2:07:04The average person will not see that it's...
2:07:10Right there.
2:07:16It's clear he doesn't want to talk with me beforehand, because he didn't want to get together.
2:07:27I started to check a couple of things, and he said, well, it's not the specifics.
2:07:34I know those points.
2:07:35I don't have any specific problems.
2:07:40It's just the way this thing is developing or something.
2:07:46Uh, he said dinner would be fine, if you would like to do that.
2:07:50I think I'm discouraged, yeah.
2:07:51He says he knows you don't like to have dinners, and that he'd be happy to meet with you any time of your convenience.
2:07:56He has to testify tomorrow, and he would like to meet with you today, and he'll use the time.
2:08:01He'd like to know when, because he wants to spend his time getting ready to testify, either this evening or this afternoon.
2:08:07Well, fine.
2:08:07Why don't we get him out of the way, and then just say that, and then tell him we're not in private region today.
2:08:20It's hard to get outside of my assumptions that he's... he thinks that there is a program somewhere in here to send Woodward to get rid of him, to do him in.
2:08:45and that he is not going to contest such a thing.
2:08:49If there is such a thing, he'd rather just go and not struggle with it than to fight it.
2:08:58He ain't going to succumb in here and fight a battle and maintain his position.
2:09:02He can't.
2:09:03Sure.
2:09:04I think being assured that A, I don't think he's right.
2:09:10I don't think there is a thing to get him out.
2:09:13I honestly don't.
2:09:14I don't think any.
2:09:14I'm trying to figure out where there can be one, and I don't think there is.
2:09:21On the other side of the coin, maybe he wants to get out.
2:09:24That's the other possibility.
2:09:27I can't believe that he would.
2:09:29I mean, he can't just, I don't think that he would be very, very strange for him to, for his standpoint, to say that.
2:09:42I don't know.
2:09:48I don't have that impression.
2:09:58I have the idea that he just wants to find out where the hell it was all about.
2:10:11But the merits of the ones he's raised, he has no.
2:10:14Good.
2:10:14Well, just as well, I'd rather that he talk to me directly about the thing.
2:10:25You see, he looks at it from a different point of view.
2:10:27He believes in discipline.
2:10:29He believes in punishing people and they, you know, fire at people in general, and they don't.
2:10:34And it just may be that, you know, I've got a snap to look behind on that speech and so forth.
2:10:39He said, well,
2:10:41We're going to have to get the hell out of here.
2:10:43You know what I mean?
2:10:44You think we're not talking about communication?
2:10:48Correct.
2:10:49Yeah.
2:10:49And I think that may be part of the problem here.
2:10:51Also, he has had his problem with the state.
2:10:56He may think he has something to counsel.
2:10:58But I think he may think he has something to show us.
2:11:02I don't know.
2:11:05I don't see.
2:11:09But his problem is that he knows clearly where the power lies.
2:11:13And the guy can't expect, he's a politician.
2:11:16He can't expect that he's got a completely smooth path before him on everything.
2:11:21Because I can't imagine that he's, well, in a way, he's got to really decide.
2:11:26I don't think he can.
2:11:27I have a very great loss to us.
2:11:42He's so much better than Kenny is.
2:11:44Oh, yeah.
2:11:46And so much better than so many other ways he's such a fellow.
2:11:51Well, I don't think he's that good.
2:11:52I think he's...
2:11:57He doesn't like being in a position of carping about this kind of stuff.
2:12:02He doesn't feel he can get along with it.
2:12:05And I think we've just got to...
2:12:06I think, well...
2:12:10I'm sure he's going to talk to me.
2:12:13He's got to talk to somebody that really knows.
2:12:16So I say you've got to find the time.
2:12:25You know, you can take a really ridiculous part back from both of you, you know.
2:12:40all the time before John and Spencer would have one.
2:12:43That's ridiculous.
2:12:45I think we always, it's about to start being a little off the top of our heads, don't you?
2:12:52Yeah, I do.
2:12:52Bobby and Romney holding their hands and barking around.
2:12:57I just get right down to it.
2:12:59They're going to play, they're going to play.
2:13:08I can't believe that it's...
2:13:10It may be that you just may be more mature than what we think.
2:13:18Well, let's check it out.
2:13:21It doesn't, it sure doesn't fit, I suppose, as possible.
2:13:29But she's going to testify.
2:13:30Why don't you just say that, that she's going to testify that I'm going to be free tomorrow.
2:13:40We're going to have a matter of him.
2:13:46I think he'd rather do that because I think he'd like to then have his evening.
2:13:50Why do we say 3.30?
2:13:50It was no more.
2:13:513.30.
2:13:51They're about to make a tree, I'm guessing.
2:14:04So it's a time, 3.30 or 4.00, suit his convenience to fit his own pattern.
2:14:11Earthman would love to see you today.
2:14:29Well, I know that one.
2:14:32Yeah.
2:14:43That appropriations thing is next week.
2:14:48We had originally set it this week, and then we moved it because of the assignment.
2:14:56And it's, they've got invitations out and all that, and that's where you can find it.
2:15:03Now let's keep, let's do things this week, but as I say,
2:15:15Well, I guess you've got to have some craft on you.
2:15:17Not so very much, no.

Nixon & Haldeman on China initiative and John B. Connally

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on July 19, 1971

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