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Conversation 540-004

TapeTape 540StartTuesday, July 20, 1971 at 7:53 AMEndTuesday, July 20, 1971 at 8:05 AMTape start time00:10:23Tape end time00:22:57ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  [Unknown person(s)]Recording deviceOval Office
AudioNARA Description

On July 20, 1971, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 7:53 am to 8:05 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 540-004 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 540-4

Date: July 20, 1971
Time: 7:53 am - 8:05 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

     US-People’s Republic of China [PRC] relations
         -Forthcoming briefing of Congressional leaders on US relations with PRC
               -Attendees
                     -William P. Rogers
               -Tone
                     -Kissinger
               -Calligraphy, notes
               -Need to maintain secrecy during negotiations
                     -Pentagon Papers citation
               -Attendees
                     -John G. Tower, Peter H. Dominick
               -Kissinger's forthcoming meeting with conservatives
               -Possible answer to questions about Taiwan [Republic of China]
         -Kissinger’s July 19, 1971 meeting with columnist
               -Hugh S. Sidey
               -Richard Wilson
               -Edward W. Carter
     News headlines
         -Peking, China

                -PRC support of North Vietnam
          -US
                -Taiwan

******************************************************************************

[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines
                                                                   Conv.case
                                                                         No.number
                                                                             540-11 (cont.)
LPRN-T-MDR-2014-029. Segment declassified on 05/08/2019. Archivist: MM]
[National Security]
[540-004-w001]
[Duration: 18s]

     News headlines
         -US
              -Taiwan
                    -Department of State [DOS]
                         -United Nations [UN]

******************************************************************************

     News headlines
         -July 19, 1971 meeting with Congressional leaders
         -Newspaper and media coverage
               -James B. ("Scotty") Reston
                    -Trip to the PRC
                    -Hospitalization
         -Forthcoming meetings with conservatives
         -Kissinger's July 19, 1971 meeting with columnists
               -Kevin P. Phillips
               -Topics
               -Secrecy and confidentiality
         -Kissinger's forthcoming meetings with conservatives
               -Schedule
         -The President's schedule
               -Discussion of John B. Connally's situation
                    -Senior Review Group
                           -Unknown staff member

     Vietnam negotiations
          -Kissinger's forthcoming trip to Paris

           -Kissinger's forthcoming September 1971 trip to the PRC

An unknown man entered at an unknown time after 7:53 am.

     William P. Rogers

The unknown man left at an unknown time before 8:05 am.

     Vietnam negotiations
          -Possibility of settlement
                -Prisoners of war [POWs]
                -Kissinger's possible itinerary
          -Presidential election campaign in South Vietnam
          -Possible US tactics
                -Ellsworth F. Bunker, Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
                -Effect on Nguyen Van Thieu
                -Type of agreement
                -Revealing secret talks
          -Thieu

     The Soviet Union [USSR]
          -Possibility of summit meeting
                -Effect of PRC initiative
                -Kissinger's Conversation with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
                      -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                      -Announcement
                            -PRC trip
                            -Timing

Kissinger and the President left at 8:05 am.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Only you will breathe.
So I'd like you to take a half hour with these people.
but the other six riders will not be there.
You can't cover the world for your accident arrest.
You have to manage an upbeat feeling about the thing.
But also the same warnings about the speculation, political speculation, and so forth.
And I think, it's not a bad little point to make, but that is a small point that
I think all of them, I think I think the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
Yeah, of course you'll have Dominic in power there.
I would be, I wouldn't speak to that.
I don't know.
But I'm seeing the conservatives later today.
Yeah, and basically I just, if they wind around, if they raise the question of time, I will not answer it.
I will let you, I think that you would read it, that what I've been doing is probably right.
You know, I'm not talking, I'm not saying much.
I think, quote,
Right.
That's the best.
Right.
That's right.
Good.
I think it went very well.
You know, first of all, of course, it was an easy sale, but they started high, and, you know, it's any little tidbit you give them, they just gobble up, and...
You say Saidi was good.
Saidi was, all of them.
There was literally, Potter kept probing whether there were any deals in Vietnam, but God, any deals that exist are working our way.
Now, yesterday they had an editorial in Peking expressing their continued support of, well, I don't know, I don't know what you expect there.
And we have headlines expressing our continued support of Taiwan.
Some wise guy in the States made another little...
But it can't be calibrated that well, and they have to understand that.
Right, so when the States say that, do you... Yeah, that they'll fight for them in the U.N., which is all right.
It's just we can say it to them without putting it in the headlines.
It'd be better off... Well, ours are not particularly headlines.
No, yours worked out beautifully.
That's what I meant.
No, no, yours really worked out beautifully.
But they have a problem.
But so far, considering what both sides are up against, it's been handled very maturely.
That it doesn't play at all.
I didn't see it anywhere.
No, and I haven't seen it on television.
Well, there'll be speculation.
getting arrested or something like that, but... Arrested in a hospital, you know, he had a bandage on his...
Probably died.
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
There it is.
But, you know, you also didn't...
I think that's good.
Yeah.
You didn't say that...
I can get it in.
And then I'm seeing the two conservative groups today.
And then I think we have covered all the bases.
But the reaction of these columnists yesterday was really, Kevin Phillips was just sitting there looking smart.
I don't know what he saw.
I don't know what he saw.
But he was there.
He was there.
So I can't judge his reaction, but those who spoke were enthusiastic.
What kind of points did you make?
Well, I made some of the points you indicated yesterday.
that if he started at this level, the difference between, say, a summit meeting with the children and a summit meeting with the...
This is not an ordinary summit.
This is not a jungle.
And then I said, by historical coincidence, it's...
why personalities are not the only factors.
That's right, I never liked that.
So I made that point to them, and then I told them,
People say they have us as hostages, but you have to remember the big decisions they made.
And that's a point I think I ought to make here, too.
That's right.
You can say there are O's who say that, but we have a big decision.
But, well, it's quite something.
And then the only other thing, I'm going on the domestic stuff today after you finish.
What time do you finish your conservative groups?
Oh, about 11.30.
Good.
In the morning and then again at 3.30.
I have two groups, one from the house.
From 11 to 11.30 or 11.45.
I'll try to catch you sometime.
3.30, if I could, or after.
Do you have a lunch?
I'm having lunch with somebody.
Very good.
After you finish your last survey group, I'm going to try to get to you.
I think a good way to do that would be to say that you will give him the same that I've asked that you give him the same reading paper that I did, that he will get that, that if you read, you'll get basically the same material.
And you would like that you'll take the responsibility of giving him of all things.
And there are times when we will have meetings where the others will not be present.
He's a very studious guy.
I've put his guy now on the senior review group, so he gets, he sits on every... Oh, does he?
Yeah.
Maybe he doesn't know that.
We heard about that.
I'll repeat that in a minute.
Yeah, but I have put his man on the senior review group.
But he's on for everything.
For everything.
No, no, for every, no, no, for everything.
He's on the senior review group.
Yeah.
But that is the thing.
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you what's been going on.
where we do leave the parish on Sunday morning and I'll be back Monday night.
God, if we can break that one open also.
That's a tough one.
Those guys are tough, but that's what it has to be.
But if that one works, well, there's so much to hope for.
But the way the thing now looks to me is...
How can they do it?
I mean, what can they do?
Either it breaks or that we just go ahead and announce we will.
That's right.
Either way.
But the way it looks now, we're going to have the...
I thought, Mr. President, if it doesn't break in Paris, we might consider that when I'm in Peking, if I go there at the end of September, one could make one more effort by meeting with their leaders
on that dress.
The Hanoi leaders, either in Peking or Hanoi, if it's not broken open by that, the protest would be another.
Because out of Peking, it can be done without attracting any attention.
But we don't have to face it.
That's the way Hanoi, well,
Going to Hanoi is a little bit after, but they could come to Pekin.
But it won't reach that point.
I think it's too late.
If it gets to that point, there's a hell of a second person, I should guess.
Well, we can talk about it.
Well, I think we have a 50-50 chance now.
Well, we have.
And we'll have to see.
You know, really, that South Vietnamese election is getting around the park.
The way they're calling each other names.
Okay.
Yeah, that's getting very hard.
Well, it proves it's free.
Well, it's, uh...
I thought, you know, if it came to it, there are things we could do.
We could call Punker back and we could call Adams back and send second-level people in there if we really wanted to play it that way.
Uh...
No, no, we couldn't do it before we made a deal.
I mean, we could make a deal with them in which we say we won't overthrow Chu, but we'll do that sort of thing.
Oh, no, we can't do it before.
Oh, we can't do it as a down payment.
No, we've got to hang tough.
But I think they have their problems because if now this and
And we've got now, I'm practically certain that we're going to get a Soviet summit.
And, oh yeah.
This really, really struck me.
It struck me.
Are you intrigued the way we wanted it?
Hey, listen to my conversation with the president.
Before I went away, he was very polite and nice.
But he acted like a man who held the cards.
And I don't know what my government will say.
I don't know.
Yesterday he said, now let me get in bed.
Yes, an announcement before you go to bed.
Excellent, excellent.
Very tactful, isn't it?
Yes.
And thus, I have what I propose.
It is an announcement before we go to bed, because the children might like it.
But go there afterwards.
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