Nixon & Finch on 1972 Presidential Election and California Politics

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uh and uh he was working for walter thayer on the ash council that's where he is

Now, he's from Colorado, but the church that we married in is our church that we went to, and I was there, and she went there because she was going back to them.

But, my God.

Oh, is she now 20?

Yeah.

Well, you remember when you came to Englewood and campaigned independently out of Rogers St. John's doing this book on you and me?

And, uh,

She's got this story in there about how you came in and campaigned, and she was just a baby, and you came in and you held her up when I was running for Congress in 1952.

I mean, you picked her up and held her up, and there's a great shot that she still has in her room of... Is that right?

Yeah.

You were holding her up.

She was just a baby then.

We tried to get her to delay a little bit, and she said, but Dad, you got married when you were 19, and so it's kind of...

I guess you saw this memo on the California situation.

Yeah.

And I just think it's got to be called to a halt.

I mean, as far as Tom Reed's activities are concerned.

The idea of

What Reagan has in mind on this thing, he's...

He had him running for senator.

Is that the latest now?

Yeah.

He'd be up, you know, he'd be 65.

Nancy is apparently, I mean... Well, I see, if there's anything I've heard, I've seen a little about it, but I was wondering what the move was.

30 or 20 percent, if you want.

I know.

Or does he want to come to Washington and choose it?

Well, I think, Christ, if you would offer him an ambassadorship, then that puts rioting in.

I mean, he's a lightweight.

Hmm.

But maybe that's all right.

Well, there's no problem.

That's all right.

That's your deal.

Well, I think it is.

Thank you.

I don't mean to be a bastard, but that doesn't make any difference.

Well, there's a little place they'd be interested in that.

Well, there was an ambush spot.

There was a quote from Nancy after she'd been there.

She said, mine at Ambysham, the ambassador's residence is a lovely place.

at times a piece yeah yeah yeah but um he could be right in the center what was he now he was born in 1911 but that's in 1974 he will be 64 but the poll shows that cranston was

He would beat me in a Republican primary.

Yeah.

But I would beat Trask, and then he can't.

Yeah, but this has happened a long way off.

This is a one-hander.

California's had too many one-turners.

For us.

Senators, for us.

the basic problem is it's an article of faith with these idiots around him that you will be a one-term president and this this you know when they come in with this poll if nixon doesn't run for christ's sake and they look at the field or the field poll it says you know reagan runs ahead of agnew and all that uh you know they consult the astrologers and all this and they're just convinced that somehow it's going to happen and that's

uh this is among republicans if nixon didn't run who would you personally like to become the next president reagan was 40. uh

Agnew was 12.

Rockefeller, 18.

Yeah, yeah.

McCloskey, 5.

I'll be there.

What do you think would be national?

I think Agnew and Reagan would run.

The white is here, the red is next, I don't like any blacks.

There's no gain in any place.

I mean, they're better than the blacks in the United States, but Christ, I think most Americans would say, well, what the hell's the matter with ours?

We don't like niggas, but what's the matter with my niggas?

You know?

It's just that it's unbelievable proportions.

You wonder who he talks to?

Well, he didn't talk to him.

He does these things apparently when he has a press conference or something.

what i mean when he has to press up like after midnight or he has him on the plane and he relaxes a little lets his guard down he doesn't do this when he's on a q a he's very fast on his feet but he tends to confide in people jesus christ that sort of thing you know and if you can't make any mistakes any kind of mistake they'll go after him

I happen to think that he... Maybe he doesn't want to run.

Yes, and that what he does...

Tries to kill himself.

No, that he believes deeply that he wants to serve you in the best way he knows how, and that that's what he's going to do, and I... Well, he will continue to repeat on the far away.

Yeah, and that's his...

decide what you want and he i i happen that he may take himself out who is and this is why he's trying to push and he's comfortable with these memories he wants to be the broker he

oh now he was he was out because he's very smart you know he's he's got lots of money lots of time and uh and we use him and we should use him and he can be a little bit good god you know we just can't have him uh uh now i'd like to begin about boldly put him under land firestone and let let them put together this operation now that's that's my recommendation but

And that's why I want to talk to Mitchell about it, as soon as he gets back.

As soon as he gets back, yeah.

But we've got Reagan.

Reagan is in.

You see, Volk was Reagan's corporation commissioner.

He can't really turn him off.

Reagan is being smart at one thing, you know, like he was very quick to endorse the China thing.

And he's clever that way.

He's not downline some of these other people.

Like Smith and these other idiots.

Like Smith and Russia.

But, you know, Reagan didn't do it solely because he saw the public reaction.

Or did they show it?

And Salvatore called me and said he'd chuck them right afterwards.

Stephen Murphy, for Christ's sake, was being made by the guy named Nationalist government.

He did a good job of muting that testimony with Tower and the rest of them on Friday.

He put that show on, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

And that was pretty restrained, considering the circumstances.

Oh, sure, there's got to be some coordination.

He urged Reagan to come on strongly for you.

All he's got is Holmes Tuttle, Justin Dart.

And that's really his ball club.

I sent a memo to you.

Acer called in pretty bad shape, wanting you to take calls.

And I sent a note to Rose.

Yes, and then sometime next week you could call.

Call or can take.

Well, he's not supposed to take calls.

He'd obviously take one from you, but I think it was, and his granddaughter wrote a very touching note that I gave Rose after you made the China thing.

It's a cute note, and if you could call, but you don't have to make a call.

He's got sciatica, and he's got, and he's got the pacemaker in his heart.

And just that you got this great note from his granddaughter, and you know, that's,

That's what I said this morning to the staff meeting.

We've got a hell of a

an opening here we've got to exploit it and i was saying we put the question what can you do now and without being staged and so on to exploit it frankly i had a call this morning from my doctor moynihan and uh yesterday and oh yeah he says there's a group of uh colleges that want to come down and and march all the way just to show their

appreciation of what you've done here with the Chinese thing.

That's right.

Uh, and of course there's some all over anyway, but, but, but, but the other thing is that we have, it's, it's more than that.

You've got a chance now to say, look, I've been doing my work and turn to the Congress this second Pat about it and how we kicked him in the ass and say,

all right now you get on with your job because if i'm gonna if we're gonna have a whole generation now of negotiation a whole new era of negotiation i've got to have a united country behind me and just put it to them and uh that's really what it is all about and it's not partisan and it's going to follow whether your two terms or whatever you know we're going to have a generation of negotiations as a whole new ball game and and

congress has got to quit screwing around it's got the congress a little bit off but more importantly i think any exposure not not not not going to a group but but uh you must have sensed the ball game the other night uh aren't many people there 38 all right but all the crowd but the point is

They want to reach out and give you support for this.

It's there, and we have to find the right kind of a...

When you've got this tide moving, all we've got to do is ride it.

And I'm not sure we're doing that right.

We haven't figured it out yet.

let me ask you about your clients what do you what do you what do you think you ought to do in terms of the you know the thing that i'm concerned about here is the time 74 is a hell of a long time and uh i think it's probably important for you to have a

I think what you have to do is to announce your plans immediately after the election.

Right.

And then go, you know, the California situation is always two years.

Right.

So you just do it then.

I have a feeling that your money, your best plan might be to do what I did.

You know, remember, except of course I did it on a national scene, but I already had a lot of going on.

Except for that, I think I got to do everything solidly for three months to help you in California.

Well, my thought was I would go into the industrial and the big states and just

go like, you know, in fact, I might even resign from the cabinet.

Well, I don't know.

I could get in the election.

Yes.

And I thought, even, say, like, June, and just say, I'm not going to campaign at taxpayer expense.

And I'd say, your re-election is the most important thing to me.

And just go like a son of a bitch from then through November.

I could go out and join Combo, you know, go into law firms.

The thing that I was thinking is this.

I wonder if it's...

I wonder if at the present time that...

I don't know, I don't know what you feel, but I wonder if at the present time it might be well for you to get a different... a different stroke, and then come back, you see, for the campaign.

What I'm going to add is I'm wondering if you don't have too long a period of time, it's a crisis as well as July.

So what do you do?

You travel the country and so forth and so on.

Is there anything you do?

I know how to wear anything if you couldn't take over the engagements and everything.

It's something I was just thinking about, but I don't know.

I don't know.

Well, you dropped the fact that you might run for governor, I suppose, because you keep Reagan loose.

Sure.

And also because of both the fact that I could be Briney Gear, among Republicans, Briney Gear, or Younger, or Furnoy, or any of these other idiots.

Yeah.

You wouldn't want to be governor.

I wouldn't.

Except...

Except to be best friends.

You've got to... You've got to let the state go down the drain.

That's right.

Do you still think the Mexicans are voter-supported?

Yes.

That's where we can make the most money.

Does Mexico really have any relationship to that?

Yes.

Well, we can play with the best if we want.

You know what I mean?

You've got Spain, you've got... All the hell of Spain.

Mexico.

I know that there's a great thing.

You got Mexico.

Let's suppose you were to take Ambassador to Mexico.

Suppose we get it right now.

And then in a year,

You resign as ambassador to Mexico.

Now, the only people at the big five who reside in the area, you know, in playing politics, in ambassadorship, would be the people on the foreign side.

Then you come back and go full downhill in the campaign.

You resign on the basis that you want to do that.

Don't ask, don't answer the question, just think about it.

Now, the Mexican embassy has these advantages that I've thought a lot about.

It's the biggest in the Western Hemisphere.

I guess the biggest in the world, actually.

But I think it's because of the amount of traffic that goes through it.

It's very close to California.

it would allow you to make uh make all sorts of non-political speeches about mexican-american relations chicanos and so forth and so on and so on to get a very very heavy mexican identification it's a prestigious position it's a very high prestige position it's one where my guess is my guess is that your young folks would like it

and you're all Spanish, you know, in the Spanish field and so forth.

The disadvantages of it, and I shall believe you too, is that it means you drop out of the political scene first of all, and there are things that you can do here to help you in that respect.

Let me put it this way.

The problem we're looking at, Bob, is not winning the nomination.

i mean all the jacking around about what the hell are we doing in the hampshire and wisconsin and boston and maybe reginald brown and so forth and who's going to have the delegation and so forth fine so let's have all the delegations nobody's going to knock a republican city can come and print it out at any event and of course if you're sure you realize the

the kind of thing although of course it will be it's going to sustain for everybody it'll have more lasting effect than any foreign policy move in about 20 years because you see first comes the trip then there will come a second trip by to advance 20 years for god's sake i just think that'll come the trip the next trip and

here in the greatest of continents there could be a soviet summit in may there could be a defense soviet

it may or may not but there's there's also there's there's a possibility of that now the war will be over one way or the other and if we're if we get it our way we'll get a negotiation but many events by the end of this year uh you will know now that's the foreign policy area all that is left then really is and that that'll put a enormous all the

I'm not necessarily concerned.

I know everybody's very much worried about the economy as it is because of the pockets of problems.

There are job problems in California, very serious ones.

There are job problems in Michigan, there are job problems in Wichita, and so forth and so on.

Like a personal data

The main thing is

well let's face it september october august september october and it's going to be in the states of matter one of the problems that we've got here with this china thing and i'm

I'm going to really raise hell with Cosen on this.

I'm going to put him to work on it, because he's the neck cutter.

He's the product of it.

He's got to keep the Democrats fighting about the war.

You see, the Pentagon haters, it's a terrible time bomb, those factions, because they've got an argument about who got it in, who was at fault, Humphrey, and all the rest of it.

It'll never be long to forget.

We've got to get out parts of the Kennedy record.

Yes, certainly did the amendment in that piece.

God, his cutting.

Kennedy was beautiful.

His cutting.

Yeah, that's what I'm jacked.

But anyway, I was going to say, you see, the difficulty with diffusing the foreign policy issue is that that is our issue.

What we want to do, and also this is one that divides Democrats, we'd like to have them continue the fighting around about that some.

I don't know how the hell we could continue to do it so that they are not first united against us on the domestic issue.

And just beating their brains out talking about unemployment.

Yeah, which they did at 70.

That's right.

And I just, you know, I sent a memo in.

We just got a Michigan survey that shows that that,

Your analysis of that thing is right there.

That's the first comprehensive survey I've seen of the 70 elections.

And the disparity between governors and senators just comes right down to high taxes and unemployment.

Sure.

But if our projections are correct and unemployment begins to move down, that, of course, is just an enormous effect.

It isn't a question of how much.

It's a question

It's also a case of, I mean, everybody isn't stupid, and they'll, I think, just keep banging away, banging away.

I'm surprised they haven't hit us.

You know, if they had any sense, they'd be killing us every day with this thing.

And they haven't hit the drumbeat on it.

And thank God, as you say, they've been agonizing over the Pentagon Papers and all that nonsense.

But it's wrong for them to agonize.

But that's what we want, because we're in it.

On the other hand, in a presidential election, if we can have the unemployment curve starting down, and if we can be very, very strong in the presidential, nobody will touch us in the foreign policy area.

Nobody possibly can.

They won't dare do it.

We'll talk about things where the party that got us into war and where the party that got us out.

So what do they say?

but anyway let's get back to you and see whether whether that has anything in it is to something that will give you an opportunity to have a have a chance to uh to uh so that you can you can you can come into the into your son of grace it seems to me with a

It's going to hurt you, I think, if it looks like I've been confined or that I'm not with you because, you know, as I move around these states and do these television shows and so on and so on, you know, you're the old

I don't want you to get into a position where...

and it may be the way you can do it hell it doesn't matter about this but maybe the way you can do it is not to get to is not to get in a position where the california but

Well, I deliberately cut way back on... You see, the California... We've got a lot of enemies out there.

They're basically...

They're not your personal enemies.

They're simply people who want the prize for themselves.

And, uh...

So, come here.

And they say, uh, now in other states, but I don't know, I don't know, it may be, you know, the McMaster and Baxter, but we can open that up, because McBride isn't very much of a, the real life needs something, something, a label one.

And, uh, but, but I don't know, maybe it wouldn't work.

My thought would be there, and if you did it, you could go,

Well, without being consigned, what, take for example this movie thing.

and giving to go and twist the arms of the countries that have got major deposits like Britain and the British and so on.

If you do some specific chores for you, with or without an ambassador rank, I don't know how that's compared with camera rank.

It's just one thing.

I wouldn't have to do that for you from what you're doing.

It's the reaffirmation of confidence in you, which is the important thing.

And you're right.

You shouldn't have overexposure in California.

What I think is important is that you should have, so that people know it, a very substantive assignment so that people will think, well, my God, I think she's out doing something.

That's right.

It's very important.

The other possibility is the OEP.

That's the Lincoln job.

The Lincoln job involves disaster relief and stockpiling and that sort of thing.

But it involves, most importantly, a hell of a lot of slots to build political organizations.

But what has evolved most importantly, in my view, is something that we... Now, we...

I had that opened up.

I told Ronstall he had to think about it, you know, three or four months ago.

I doubt he was apparently interested.

I don't know.

Now, the OEP would be a somewhat confining thing in some ways, but...

But I think that, I think that's doing, I don't want them to get to a position where they say, well, what the hell is the biggest assignment?

Oh, he's a counselor, the president does special jobs, he became this and that and the other thing.

But then, after a while, they, they, it is, you've got to have something, it's kind of like a vice president.

In return, the Vice President, we constantly got to rebutter his, uh, his image by saying, well, you got this through that time, but you sent him on trips, and it's awful hard, and then you're in somewhat the same position.

You can do it for a while, but then there comes a time when I think the, your opposition from pot shots is, um, that's sort of, that's just my guess.

I don't know.

What do you think?

Maybe it's no problem.

You can certainly continue exactly what you're doing if you want.

But I think you've got to pace yourself in terms of your 74 plans so that you come into that 74 thing fresh.

And with the fresh, you know, you come off of something that you've done and you're starting out more.

So it isn't just the fact, well, Bench has been campaigning for four years on that thing, you know what I mean?

no that's that's right at the same time that's why i'm getting out of california at the same time i can be just based on the invitations and so on that i have i know that my greatest benefit to you is campaigning uh

those extra few votes and the minorities and the youth and so on in 72 in the industrial state that's my that's my role outside of california and then to hit hard come in hard when they ask me because they want me to come in in the final whatever looks right for california now that's that's my best use in in the period between the convention and the election right

Now the question is, I'm sorry, where do you go from here?

Yeah.

And, uh... Well, I've done quite a bit of it, you know.

I've hit 40 states in the last... third or last election, and, uh... And, uh...

I'm sort of intrigued by it.

That's my point.

You can make it a national committee without having to take all the crap about being a partisan.

And you can be the most partisan of people and build a partisan organization.

What do you think Rumsfeld wants to do?

You can talk to him.

He's... God, he's an enigma, man.

I just don't know.

Play him closer to that.

He, uh...

I get the impression he would like to do something statewide in Illinois, and I guess...

I guess he figures he doesn't have any slots for me.

He does.

He ought to get the hell out of there now.

He, in his case, is either that or, uh...

He doesn't run around making these pieces like you do.

He doesn't.

I don't think that was his bag.

Well, he doesn't have, you know, things like the center of all your action and the Peruvian relief and what Pakistani relief.

I've got all these things.

I have to sit around with the cabinet committee on the Spanish speaking and all that.

Bicentennial working in Mahoney and all that.

One thing you ought to do is if you talk about this, you ought to talk to Carol about the next

Part of the problem too is that Kevin's going to have quite a year here.

He's a senior in high school and he's

You wouldn't want to move him?

That's part of the problem, because we moved Maureen when I was less than a governor, and it hurt her senior year in high school.

Hell, he was all leagues.

As a junior, this is his senior year.

He should have a great year, both in the hurdles and in football.

And I...

Yeah, you gotta think of that, that's part of the equation.

I was thinking with, uh, with, uh, Roosevelt, one day he might steal again.

He's got a great elder in the factory.

I mean, boy, I wouldn't recommend it to you because it would have no relation to California itself.

Well, we had a two-hour session yesterday, following up on your request with the State Department people on, you know, why they don't betray our investigations.

But he likes that.

That is his thing.

And if you do love the NATO thing, I think he'd like an abacuship.

What else?

well the other coming back to the california problem i i would like to argue that with john and i'll take this up with him if you let's see i think we ought to particularly with the popularity that flows out of this china i think we ought to go ahead with that california mailing we just john calls reed or ray and says but we got a thing going here and uh

and we're going to go ahead and start the Nixon operation.

And I think we'll get a lot of kids signed up, we'll get a lot of people signed up, but we ought to take advantage of it.

How much do you mean?

40,000.

40,000 key people, youngsters, mailing lists, and that's just a bunch of Republicans.

Friends of Nixon, sign up.

We want to support the president.

I just think we've got to go ahead and require some flexing muscles.

You can't stick in there with the likes of Reed and Tuttle and so on and have them as the Nixon committee, for Christ's sake, Phil.

That's the group that ran the

Rafferty campaign and the Murphy campaign.

And they go in and they, look, we don't, the way you win California is you get good city and county chairmen.

I mean, who've got stature.

You don't pick the right wing nut.

And, and,

You sure thought that Reagan should be given some appointment now?

No.

Before the election, he should have stayed in, he should have .

But he is going to become less and less popular.

He's got to raise taxes.

His own polls have shown him cutting way back.

And as far as I'm concerned, if I were playing, I'd use him in the South.

and have them campaign more out of the state than in the state.

Mark, you're concerned.

You ever thought, oh, they could do the running?

Or you could be in a hell of a state, but if the God damners died, what would you ever solve?

A convention would never exist on regular terms.

It can't.

Huh?

You're both Californians and residents.

Sorry.

No, that's no law against that.

If there is constitutional probation, isn't it?

They shall not be residents of the same state.

You're right, I forgot.

I forgot, I forgot, I forgot.

When we were talking about you in 1968... You or you?

They are.

It's all just a problem.

It's got nothing to do with some other nut.

You know what my candidate is?

Well, you'd be again, you'd certainly, you'd certainly not, because you certainly as a Jew, for Christ's sake, you'd just think he's got that kind of capability.

Well, he's got a lot of capability, but you'd have a terrible time talking to him.

I think people have to have their man, you know, they have to have a man to rally around.

Or, or you have, you have, you have to, then your, or your wall is so great, you have to, like, that's really the problem.

I want to talk to Carol.

Well, I'm not sure that Mexico is a good idea.

That's a very great consideration.

You're absolutely right.

May I talk to you about the other thing?

Oh, sure.

I don't even know what the hell it pays or what the cabin rank is.

So I resign from the cabin.

Same thing.

But you are a member of the NSC.

That's what matters.

That's what I'd like to, I'd like to get a feel of.

You can't do nothing.

That's right.

Hell, you know that doesn't happen to me.

That's just what you're saying.

The OET is a statute of the deed.

It's an action.

The reason is that it was set up at a time that somebody had to pass it.

But the OED is one of the five Secretary members of the NFC.

There are five.

There's the Vice President, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of State, the President, and the Director of the Office of the Minutes of Preparation.

Well, and if you took away the announced intention of abolishing it, that would be kind of fun to say that it is an anachronism.

And then while you're saying you're going to abolish it, you just worked the hell out of it for political purposes.

And you have kids up there.

best, brightest crew of young people when you go at it hard for a few months before the campaign.

Pursue that, if I may.

I'm going to push John Mitchell pretty hard on this California thing, unless you object.

I just think it's critical to seize on riding this wave and get people signed up now when your stock is high.

It's terribly important.

But everybody's got to go to Ohio.

Yep.

And, you know, if you get kids signed up now, they're going to stay signed up.

I think the young people are going to stay signed up.

Now this young kid, Mark Bitter, that I want to, would like to have, he's, you know, the guy who's a millionaire, who's a, I mean, made a million dollars when he was still in school, and he wants to, he says right now he just, he wants to organize the dance.

He's a sweeter.

Mark Bitter, he was in my magazine.

He built up a consumer thing for students, and he wants some awards and money.

he's the best organizer i mean he knows how to put things together i would like to use

Let me suggest this, we'll talk again about it.

I'm going to talk to him once again.

I've got to, you know, I've got to read it again.

I've got to sort of hold it up.

He was supposed to come back and have it.

But I heard he had done something better than this.

I read it in the mail.

I didn't realize we did this trip and he knows more about what's right and wrong about the embassies and betraying American policy abroad

And if I find that he's still interested in OEP, I'll let you know there.

But if I don't hear, just assume it.

And I think you should talk to Carol about OEP and Mexico.

Those are two possibilities.

All right.

Pardon me, can you do me a favor?

Yes, sir.

I wanted a free response.

How are your keys done?

I changed that in October.

Pretty, pretty gruesome, isn't it?

Yeah.

Nixon & Finch on 1972 Presidential Election and California Politics

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Also recorded on July 22, 1971

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